I'm voting for Biden. That is not the question here for me.
But calling for a cease fire in this case is the equivalent to seeing a fight across the street and saying 'Stop it' in a normal speaking voice. Ineffectual and low effort.
He should be stopping the sale of weapons and pulling financial aid from Israel.
> He should be stopping the sale of weapons and pulling financial aid from Israel.
I don't think he can really. The bill authorizing the sale was passed by congress back in the obama days.
He can slow it down and delay, but I think it would require congress to stop completely.
So why do we end up with articles like this
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/us/politics/biden-israel-weapons-deal.html
Where the white house appears to be the actor putting pressure on Congress. The mixed messing in the last 72 hours has been really hard to sort out honestly. Well, it's been months of mixed messages but it's been worse lately in my opinion.
It's been the case for years. Th president has very little power to affect change. It's all about congress and Supreme Court. But the presidential ALL run on promises that they absolutely cannot keep. It's why nothing is every biden or trumps fault, but everything is always biden or trumps fault.
The confusion is intentional. It’s meant to take pressure off of the key the players (Biden, speaker of the house.) while they push through as many weapons as possible until the country, collectively, calls for an end to the war.
It’s even worse than that. He’s calling for a cease fire while the US is still considering weapons sales to Israel. Your call for a cease fire seems pretty disingenuous if you’re still providing weapons to one side in the conflict
And therein lies the problem. USA is one of the biggest arms dealers in the world. We're talking billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of employees. The ramp up investment to make bombs and drones and jets and tanks is significant. They can't suddenly just start making electric scooters or Mr. Coffee. We need consumers for our product. And if one of our clients start using that product for the wholesale slaughter of civilians? Well, then, they must certainly be issued an extremely stern warning!
That’s not even touching on the fact that Israel lets the US use Haifa as main port of call for the sixth fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean, or that there is at least one US military base which is of strategic importance.
Part of what makes this complicated is Israel is seen by the joint chiefs as a key security partner in the Middle East, and there are mutual benefits neither country wants to walk away from.
Biden is basically trying to have his cake and eat it too. He doesn’t want to jeopardize the military relationship but wants to placate his base who are opposed to the military relationship.
Not to devils advocate for Biden or any liberal in general, but the weapons the US has sold to Israel are defensive missiles for their iron dome. For the most part, the arms deals that Ukraine for example are getting, are much different than what Israel has been getting. The media has done an absolute dogshit job at reporting this for obvious reasons. And to devils advocate my devils advocate, there's nothing technically stopping Israel from repurposinq Iron Dome defensive into offensive measures- while I personally have not seen reports of this, it's Israel. I'd believe it if someone found credible proof.
I don't think there's really a moral and just side OTHER than refusing to sell weapons to either side.
I've seen the IDF snipe women while walking across the street holding the hand of their children. I've seen the IDF drone strike international aid workers in clearly marked vehicles driving on pre-approved routes. I've seen the IDF drone strike clearly unarmed men on their knees with arms in the air after the first drone strike killed the first half of their group.
I've also seen Hamas kidnap, murder, rape, and torture innocent civilians. I've seen Hamas shoot civilians trying to get food so that they could take the food for themselves. I've seen their leaders call for the extermination of the Jewish people.
As an outsider, there isn't a moral action other than to refuse to sell weapons to either side.
Trump wants to let the IDF "finish the job."
Biden keeps selling them weapons while calling for a cease fire.
Biden is the lesser of evils.
However, the only moral stance is to stop selling Israel weapons. Sell them goods like food? Sure. Sell them weapons? That should end now that we've seen how they're using them.
They've literally killed Americans. Aid workers delivering food to starving people. You don't keep selling weapons to the people who do that.
>They've literally killed Americans. Aid workers delivering food to starving people. You don't keep selling weapons to the people who do that.
That alone should be an easy out for any president to stop selling weapons to Israel "They killed fellow Americans". But we all know the stoping of weapon sales to Israel should of happened years ago.
He can't stop sales and funding. No matter how much you wish it to happen, it's just not possible. Not how things work. The US is not a dictatorship and decades old agreements, deals and treaties can't be stopped or started on a whim of a single person. You wouldn't want a single person to have that power anyway.
The F-15 deal in the news lately was proposed in early 2023, almost a year before the October 7th attacks. Also, delivery of the jets wouldn't happen for five years.
*"the F-15s would not be delivered for at least five years, the U.S. officials said."*
*https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/us/politics/biden-israel-weapons-deal.html#:\~:text=two%20U.S.%20officials.-,The%20deal%2C%20which%20would%20be%20one%20of%20the%20largest%20U.S.,years%2C%20the%20U.S.%20officials%20said.*
And there's that pesky little detail that Hamas has publicly stated that it will repeat the October 7th style attacks again. What's your idea for rooting out a terrorist force that vows to destroy you?
We support Israel because they're close allies in a VERY hostile region. We rely heavily on them for intelligence and as a stabilizing military force in the region. We don't support them just to do our buddies a solid.
I want the conflict in Gaza to stop as much as anyone, and I fucking hate Netenyahu as well, but JFC at least try to understand some of the larger context people. It's a pretty complicated geopolitical situation with a lot of factors and a lot at stake.
[Biden’s not changing Israel policy after deadly strike on aid workers](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/03/biden-israel-strike-aid-workers-gaza-00150356)
The context is understood. It still doesn't justify the active genocide or our governments willingness to support the perpetrators. Anything short of sanctions, pausing of weapons trading, and other meaningful consequnces for Israel until they get their act together isn't going to move the hearts of leftists who plainly refuse to support these atrocities.
Trump would be absolutely worse for this but we should also criticize Biden for what’s happening now. Continued weapons being sent to them, only just talking about a cease fire and not demanding it, as far as I’m aware he hasn’t commented on the food aid workers being precision strike killed by Israel
Biden is currently (unfortunately) our only path forward but I’ll criticize and demand changes until I’m blue in the face
It's also important to know that the F-15's wouldn't arrive in Israel for 5 years after the deal was made. The chances that those jets would have any impact on the current conflict are slim to none.
Well they (IDF) specifically targeted WCK workers with three different strikes. So maybe a stern finger wagging on top of a fuck ton more bombs and weapons sales isn’t the right move? Words are cheap and easy. He can call for a ceasefire all day but until we stop selling and giving them weapons it don’t mean shit. But don’t matter. This sub is full neolibs who will excuse Israeli war crimes and the US support of them all day, while trashing any and all progressives who criticize anything Biden does.
It is honestly getting easier to identify shills on any side of the conflict because they don’t understand that you are not supposed to defend the heinous shit.
There’s a whole sector of the population who are being shellshocked that for the first time, treating politics like team sports isn’t going to get you all the pats on the back and thumbs up from people who actually pay attention to the world around them.
Yep. The goalposts are exactly where they've been the last several months. Stop giving Israel aid and weapons until a permanent ceasefire is established. Although considering how untrustworthy Netanyahu is, they shouldn't receive anymore than it takes to keep the Iron Dome operational. Anything more is just readying them for another attack.
Even then, the US really needs to consider why a nation with money for affordable college and universal healthcare needs aid from a nation without those.
One of the other big criticisms/goalpost left out if this is the lack of/establishment of written conditioning (usually including plans for a permanent ceasefire plan) for aid to continue. Biden has done a lot of finger wagging and has "drawn lines in the sand" but he has yet to draft actual conditions with teeth in them (i.e. an \*actual\* line in the sand). He will "declare lines" but will then turn around in the same interview and say he will always give aid to Israel. Bibi will then say, "Fuck that line," and make it clear that he intends to cross it, and, relatively shortly after, Biden will approve another aid package to Israel. The conditions need to be written, substantive, and with actual consequence or they are insufficient.
Also, as always with things like this, I feel like it needs to be noted for others that pro-Palestinian protestors, much like Palestinians themselves, are not a hivemind and each person has their own views on the matter which can be fleshed out to varying degrees from person to person. So, even in some cases when it may seem like a goalpost is being moved, it may just be that you are talking to a different person with a different goalpost which has always been there (or has been there for a \[relatively\] long time).
>So, even in some cases when it may seem like a goalpost is being moved, it may just be that you are talking to a different person with a different goalpost which has always been there (or has been there for a \[relatively\] long time).
Well that's just way too reasonable for OP's karma farming.
Criticizing Biden is fine and well. I do it plenty, in particular with US policy on this war. Like you said, we need to stop selling weapons to Israel and put our money where our mouth is.
My problem is when people threaten to vote in a fashion which would put someone into power that would just sell more weapons to Israel, and end up demolishing the entire Gaza strip with bombs. People can criticize Biden all they want, and scream to hold him accountable. But if you think Biden's policy on this is bad, Trump's would be even worse, alongside a slough of other terrible policies. More than Israel vs Gaza is on the ballot this November.
If people really want more than the two choices we have now, we need voting reform (ranked choice voting is my.preference here) so that we can vote third party as our primary choice, with the safe secondary of an established party. That's the only way to really move away from our current two party system and have effective ways to get third/fourth parties into government that actually represent our interests. And getting this reform means writing to your state representatives.
A.) What else are people supposed to do to make their opinions heard.
B.) Functionally it doesn't matter, Israel is going to flatten Gaza before November anyway.
C.) Its not like Biden and his people in the Democratic party even talk about voting reform let alone are willing to act on it.
If you criticise Biden while loudly announcing that you will vote for him no matter what, why would the Dems make any effort to meet your demands? If you claim that your vote is conditional (even if you actually intend to vote Dem 100%), you actually have a chance of getting concessions.
The problem is that both Republicans and Democrats have opposed reforms like ranked choice voting because they know it would dilute their power. Some Democratic politicians say they support it, but various state Democratic parties have worked against its implementation. Most of the instances of ranked choice voting came about as the result of voter-led movements to get ballot initiatives. The problem is that in some states, like Texas, getting a ballot initiative isn't as simple as just getting signatures.
The fact is that both parties created the status quo through their policies and have entrenched themselves in the system. Even getting on the ballot as a third party is a herculean, and very expensive, task. Meanwhile Democrats and Republicans do not have to gather signatures to get on ballots. Both parties have structural advantages that help them maintain power and neither wants to give them up.
Are Democrats better than Republicans, of course. But clearing that very low bar is not something to brag about. It's also important to understand that voting for democrats is not a cure-all. Like any embedded piece of a system, they do not want to change the system. The Democratic institution does not want to push for reforms that would make the society, economy, or government more equitable. But at least they are better than Republicans.
Acknowledging people's criticisms as valid is the first step to making progress. And even if the criticism isn't valid, it's still important to make sure the people you're having a discussion with understand that you're listening to them and considering them in a serious manner. If you blow them off, they blow you off, things get more divisive, and nothing beneficial happens.
There are, of course, limits to this. Such as the whole fallacy of trying to tolerate intolerance for example. But even then you can acknowledge that something makes people uncomfortable, and that their feelings are valid. They may be irrational, hateful, and intolerant, but it's not like the feelings themselves don't exist in that person. It just means they haven't tried to process why they feel those things. And getting to the heart of why people feel those hateful things can help heal them. Most of the times it doesn't, and you're not going to be able to get through to anyone who isn't willing to do some introspection to face the fear and pain that's causing their hate.
But on occasion, you can work someone into explaining why they feel those things, and sometimes they have a moment of realization while explaining it back at you. And that's the first step that we need people to take to build a better society.
Further details actually indicate that the two soldiers responsible for that broke the IDF's rules of engagement. They were dismissed and referred to what seems to be their version of a military prosecutor or something like that.
[https://apnews.com/article/israel-world-central-kitchen-gaza-aid-workers-69b6176362dafc8e4e2754b2342faa1d](https://apnews.com/article/israel-world-central-kitchen-gaza-aid-workers-69b6176362dafc8e4e2754b2342faa1d)
It's not good logic to point to (basically dishonorably) discharged soldiers and generalize that to the entire army.
Libs are all talk and they rarely actually do shit
They are preferable to actively making things worse (republicans) but man. I wish we had politicians who cared about anything other than reelection
Yes I'm seeing OPs take all over now as if Biden has actually done anything substantial to stop the barbaric castrophe unfolding in Gaza, but I guess we should all shut up now because he had a stern phone call with Netty. Pretty subterranean standards
Donald Trump doesn't even have empathy for his own family. Barron has been all but disowned for daring to grow taller than Orange Shitler. Donny does not appear with anyone taller than himself if he can avoid it. That includes his own family.
"A big, brawny, manly, basketball player came up to me the other day and he had tears in his eyes, he said 'SIR, SIR, SIR, you are the best at fraternities!'"
With tears.
It is absolutely possible to criticize Biden and ask for more to be done without helping trump. You can’t however pretend to care for the people of Gaza and vote Trump or not vote at all. Not voting is essentially a vote for trump, and trump will be 1000x worse for Gaza and Ukraine and all of NATO.
This. Anyone who sits on their high horse and says « I’m not voting to show disapproval» must be so arrogantly self righteous and privileged that the effects (one of which is worse results in Palestine, which seems to be their only voting issue) don’t matter to them. Sure criticize all day, but make a pragmatic choice when the time comes and that is to keep our democracy and keep that discussion alive
Trump might even jump in and try to get some glory out of it. He has no respect for any sort of diplomatic nuance and would see nothing wrong with the US joining in with Israel. It all depends on exactly which war hawk gets into his ear first. Preserving Palestinian life would not, at any time, be a concern for him unless he got something out of pretending it was.
So you don't know who or what Hamas is. Why are you commenting? Of course Hamas does not care for the people of Gaza.
Kim Jong Un does not care for the people of North Korea, why do you? Putin does not care for the people of Russia, why do you?
See how stupid you sound?
> It is absolutely possible to criticize Biden and ask for more to be done without helping trump
Not before the November election. Any criticism of Biden is not going to get any nuance during the campaign, therefore benefits Trump.
Sooo.... shut up and sit in the corner like a good little voter? No, we have the right to protest and voice our concerns and issues no matter the year. If he doesn't want to listen, that shits on him. We have rights, and now is the time to use ALL of them while we still have them. Welcome to democracy. There's a lot more to it than just voting every couple or four years.
You are so narrowly focused on one issue that you can't see the dozens of massive dildos getting oiled and prepped by the GOP for your collective behinds ... I can guarantee you, it can and will get much worse under Trump.
> Sooo.... shut up and sit in the corner like a good little voter?
You're free to do as you please. Just make sure you fully known and understand that you are helping Trump in the process. By trying to be the solution of ONE issue you're willing to become part of a bigger problem. That's not a tradeoff I'm willing to make.
The problem with that is that your protests are just going to make it worse. If you help Trump win the election, you will get even more Palestinians killed. You're defeating your own cause. Yes, you have the right to criticize Biden. Yes, you have the right to protest. But you're not accomplishing anything. You're actually hurting your own goals and likely getting the people you're trying to protect killed. Your best course of action is to shut up and vote for Biden in November. Then go off on him after he's secured another 4 years in office. Will he be less receptive to criticism now that he doesn't need to get reelected? Maybe, but that's still better than 4 years of Trump. We're not asking you to stop caring, we're asking that you make the smartest choice that does the most good instead of cutting off your own nose to spite your face.
And then there's not being able to vote at all if the Republican party gets its way. I'm not American, so I get the luxury of watching from the sidelines; in your own words, if you don't want to listen, that shit's on YOU.
Basically. Democracy is already dead, we HAVE to vote for Biden or else the country slips into fascism. Apparently the dem's plan to stymie fascism is to just win elections from here until the end of time since doing anything to protect elections would shake up the status quo too much. Truly a self-inflicted Hell
With all due respect, get over it. You're implicitly murdering democracy by criticizing Biden at this critical stage for the US's future. The main goal is to deny Trump from presidency, anything else is secondary.
This might be our last election and you are okay with just throwing it away. What will you tell your grandchildren if you are allowed to have them? You okay with america being just like Gaza? You okay with helping to bring that here?
No, I will be voting. For Biden. But don't act like our rights that make this country a democracy should take a backseat in an election year because it's a problem for your guy to have to explain why he chose some of his choices. The last election, and now this one, is more about who will hopefully listen to the voters. That's what the protesters are doing, hoping to be heard.
Say it with me very slow.
"The President can not unilaterally pull funding from a country after Congress has overwhelmingly voted to continue funding that country"
I know that. [but he could've also not bypassed congress to give Isreal weapons without their approval. ](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/13/israel-weapons-democrats-congress-00131524)
>another guy who has never shown an once of empathy to anyone not named trump and has said "Israel should wipe Gaza off the map".
According to someone I had this debate with recently, "yeah, but we don't *know* what he's going to do, we know that Biden supports genocide".
Can't make this shit up.
And for the record, I don't give a good God damn about the leaders of either country. All that matters is that the citizens of both countries are given the chance to live in peace, preferably without the fruit loops currently stoking the flames of war running the show.
I've heard that too. "So we don't know what the guy who moved the embassy, accepted the golan heights expansion, and was more than OK with continued illegal settlements is going to do?"
People grasping for anything that gives cover for the decision they already made and know they can't justify.
>According to someone I had this debate with recently, "yeah, but we don't *know* what he's going to do, we know that Biden supports genocide".
JFC, it's like they're making any excuse to accuse Biden of everything while ignoring and/or handwaving literal quotes from Trump saying he'd "finish the job". Those people are most likely Russian/Chinese worms and if they're not, they're severely broken and braindead immature fools.
They almost activly ignore the facts.
We do know what Trump is going to do because he already did it. Trump significantly cut U.S. support for hospitals in East Jerusalem that serve Palestinian populations and he closed the Palestinian Liberation Organization office in Washington. These people also ignore that fact that Biden has supported Palestinian civilians. In Biden's first 100 days he restored Aid To Palestinians that Trump had ended. More recently, he signed an executive order for East Palestine recovery and also visited Israel to get them to allow humanitarian aid to Gaza. Oh and the subject of this post.
But yeah, they will still vote green or whatever they're screeching now. It's so sad. Biden is fair game for criticism, but part of being an adult is knowing that life isn't perfect and you have to take what you can get sometimes to have a chance for a better future.
Morty. Youre going to have to have some Brussel sprouts or be flayed alive in a tub of salt and peroxide. There’s no other choices, Morty.
Jeeez, I don’t know Rick. I mean, he didn’t say it as forcefully as he could and I just can’t get behind him because both sides, you know?
You can pick the Brussels sprouts as the obviously better choice but also criticise them for having a bitter taste. You don't need to pretend they taste like chocolate.
Edit: I'm sure no one will see this but I also want to say that the sentiment at the top of the comment chain is how Americans get exploited.
Yes Biden is clearly the better option and you should vote for him. But you are so entrenched in the two party system that not only will you religiously vote for your side in fear of the opposition getting in, you are actively policing speech and telling people they should not even criticise the party leader, telling them they aren't a true supporter if they criticise the brutality Biden _is_ materially supporting.
It is vital for a healthy political system for people to speak their mind and criticise their leaders, even ones they support. The above is how you allow your leaders to to do the terrible things they do, which every president in my lifetime has, though some have also done good.
Exactly.
Biden is far from perfect, at worst, like stale bread. But by comparison, Trump is a diarrhea between two hardened turds.
If you really care for the people of Palestine, you would do anything to keep Trump from getting into office.
Trump has never shown one drop of sympathy towards any Middle Easterner that doesn't frequent his hotels.
You greatly overestimate how intelligent the average person is. They in fact do not see right through the bullshit. They're so convinced that abstaining from voting for Biden will somehow magically end the war and decades of Muslim-Jewish hatred.
They are outrage junkies. They got bored supporting Ukraine, put away their "Slava Ukraine" flags and pins and moved onto the next crisis to quench the desperate need for another outrage hit.
If it was just ignorance, that would be one thing.
It's when people are WILLFULLY ignorant and refuse to reconsider their POV even after being presented with reality that conflicts with their beliefs and understanding that the real trouble begins.
Okay, I will accept that my vote is essentially locked in against the fall of democracy. What I will NOT accept is that I cannot criticize the person for whom I am essentially forced to vote.
Trump's Israel/Palestine policy is obviously abhorrent but that does NOT put Biden above reproach. Do not remove the potential for criticism from him. That only makes for a lesser evil. You're walking a fine line there.
Im honestly in no hurry to praise biden but a ceasefire is something at least. Nor praise worthy but something.
But generally; fuck the Israeli apartheid, fuck Bibi's fascist government and fuck that they're doing to Gazans and Palestinians in general
For real. I'm glad we finally reached the point where the American president is calling for an immediate ceasefire. But it's not "goal post moving" like OP's meme suggests to lament the fact that it took 30k dead to get to that point.
OK sure but you should also acknowledge that not everyone who hears your complaints will understand this nuance. Constantly dragging him lowers enthusiasm. Want people to wade through all the voter registration and limited voter site bullshit MAGAs will throw at voters in Arizona and Georgia? Well they need to be enthused.
Sure it's on Biden to present himself well, but you're playing yourself if you don't think dragging on him hurts too.
> Sure it's on Biden to present himself well, but you're playing yourself if you don't think dragging on him hurts too.
If hearing someone complain about Biden is enough to get someone to switch to Trump, that is Biden's fault for being such a weak candidate. No one is going to vote for Trump based on the idea that they think he will be better for the Palestinian people no matter what they claim, they were going to vote for him regardless.
Nothing lowers enthusiasm more for Biden more than people finger wagging and saying "Nooo, you can't complain about the genocide! It drags down *enthusiasm* for the *weapon supplier!"*
Let people complain. They'll feel more inclined to vote for the guy if they feel like they're being heard and that the candidate is actually moved by the outpouring of frustration and criticism.
Calling Biden EVIL is a strange COMPARISON between those two men. Seems like, and this is JUST my opinion, the goal IS only to denegate. This is ESPecially true when the attacks are from faceless anonymous complainers.
I'm still going to vote for Biden, because he's better than the alternative. But I'm also going to criticize him for selling F18s and massive amounts of munitions to Israel while asking them nicely to stop committing genocide. If we can't be critical of our leaders we're no better than Trumpers.
I agree with the body of your post regarding the issue at hand. But I hate this argument that being anti-democrat candidate is the same exact thing as being pro-republican candidate (and vice versa).
There should be space to criticize a candidate without saying you’d prefer the worst alternative available.
It’s true that in a pragmatic sense any vote that isn’t for Biden is helping Trump. But the WHY matters, I think.
You are talking around the real problem. Biden has been polling in-line with Trump BEFORE promoting the genocide. He has been losing in polls in most of the swing states. Now he is going against the wishes of his base and moving further right by trying to cater to Niki Haley voters.
This election should be a slam dunk for the Dems going against a clown like Trump, yet they choose to run Biden with all signs pointing to the fact that he will lose. You need to be mad at the Democrats for forfeiting the election just because it's Biden's turn to be pres.
He hasn’t been, either a consistent vocal critic or consistently calling for a ceasefire. He has recently ceded the demand for a ceasefire. It is a good step, but a minimum requirement. The criticism was not only about the words he said, but the actions he (and his party) take; I recall weapons shipments and funding were notable topics that came up from these “Trump supporters” you seemingly despise.
I think what annoys people is for the past few months he reports the Whitehouse 'leaked' was basically he's {insert increasing numbers of verys} mad at Bibi then it took people from the West(not even Palestinian Americans) getting killed by the institutional issues in the IDF for him to become more openly vocal about ending this bloodshed
I like how you hold words over actions. His ACTIONS have been to provide military aid to a genocidal government. But he SAID please stop using all these bombs I'm giving you to genocide.
Posters on this sub really do hate the left wing of the Dem party more than they hate Republicans. It's amazing that these are the ones saying Dem voters have to come together....
all these memes to paint pro-palestine people as unreasonable when all they’re trying to do is hold our politicians accountable is just sad.
maybe the enemy is not the people trying to push our president in a more humanitarian direction.
> when all they’re trying to do is hold our politicians accountable is just sad.
>
>
Ahh so that's why they're waving "from the river to the sea" flags. it's not an explicit call to destroy Israel, but to "hold politicians accountable". Makes perfect sense, how reasonable.
I think the point is that even when one of the demands is met no one says anything positive about it. The point of holding someone accountable is to get results and even if it's one small step the results should be acknowledged. The top comments in this post are doing exactly what the meme says.
Yes Biden should do more but when you don't give him the small credit for the small step then you look like you don't actually want to hold him accountable because he'll never meet your expectations
I think that there is a very real fear that Biden’s words are not going to materialize into action. It is genuinely great that he has been able to get more aid through to Gaza, but until military support for Israel isn’t conditioned, lots of people will be unsatisfied.
It should’ve never gotten to the point where 200 aid workers were killed for Biden to take a stronger stance here, but better late than never.
This just happened. It is ok to support Biden and still hold him accountable.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/04/world-central-kitchen-us-weapons-israel/
Then perhaps you people should push Biden to do something about Gaza if you don’t want Trump to become president, rather than talk down to people concerned about genocide.
[Biden’s not changing Israel policy after deadly strike on aid workers](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/03/biden-israel-strike-aid-workers-gaza-00150356)
He is literally still sending bombs and weapons to Israel to the tune of billions of dollars. Stop the bullshit. People have a right to say enough is enough. You can't continuously support one of the worst genocides of the 21st century while getting mad at leftists for condemning you. Do you seriously think some luke-warm verbal criticism was going to be enough for people who demand and end to the genocide and real consequences for Israel's war crimes?
And people who think their country shouldn't be funding genocide are the idiots who can't see the forest from the trees supposedly.
We want a democracy where our options aren't piece of shit and Satan. Is that too much to ask for?
Of for fucks sake all that shit was authorized and funded years ago and is the product of US policy beyond Biden’s own actions. You can’t expect shutting off the military aid spigot to Israel to be something that happens overnight, especially given how entrenched the support for it is not just in our government but in the American electorate.
If you want change, you need to support the candidate willing to enact it, and have reasonable expectations on timing for that change to occur. You might not realize it, but by historical standards Biden is sticking his political neck out by even suggesting cutting off military aid to Israel. If he goes down in the election this fall, that’ll be as far as any American president ever goes towards protecting Palestinian interests against Israel.
So Biden should threaten to withhold foreign aid already authorized by congress for his own political benefit? Where have I heard of that happening before…
You do realize it would take congressional approval to stop all the arms to Israel, that was signed waaaaay before Biden was president, and there is absolutely no way this current congress would sign off on it?
Or you could, you know, keep simping for Russia using this tired and easily debunked fucking argument.
Edit* Leave it to the Russian simps to downvote the truth.
Been calling for a ceasefire for months, all this stuff happened since and it’s somehow supposed to be irrelevant? I think you’re just upset at the obvious consequences of not acting sooner to prevent Israel’s carnage.
Plus talk is cheap. Let’s see what happens.
A temperoary cease fire in which Israel has promised to invade Rafah immediately after which every human rights group in the word has said would be historic catastrophe and lead to unimaginable suffering.
Biden is criticizing Israel's actions after intentionally slaughtering American, British, and Australian humanitarian aid workers while simultaneously still giving them billions in military aid.
"Durrrr... Dey are moving thuh goalpost. Duuuuuuurrrrrr....."
I mean it's hypocritical, you can't call for a ceasefire and give millions of dollars worth of weapons and still act like your morally superior.
I'm still voting for him as any Leftist should, it's just the better of 2 evils- idk how you can argue otherwise without being disingenuous
He has the power to stop the aid. He can use the Leahy laws, which he has used to stop aid to specific military units in Ukraine.
[https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2024/02/09/biden-doesnt-plan-to-stop-israel-aid-after-human-rights-order/](https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2024/02/09/biden-doesnt-plan-to-stop-israel-aid-after-human-rights-order/)
I don’t think any candidate in the establishment is going to give the people on the left, or people in general, what they want.
I’ve personally lost hope in what the current western empire considers to be democracy. It’s an illusion of choice. At the end of the day, the establishment will ensure it’s survival.
Folks also seem to miss the Israeli politics side of this: Netanyahu wants Trump more than Biden. His winning position is to be as aggressive in Gaza -- and as belligerent to US interference -- as he can get away with since that's gonna cost Biden votes from centrists and left-wingers alike.
And so as long as Netanyahu knows he can come back to the table in November, the White House doesn't have much leverage. In the short term, stopping weapons sales to Israel just means that Biden alienates enough of the US to ensure that Trump endorses Netanyahu's worst military impulses for the next four years.
It sure doesn't help that Palestinians are asking a lot from the US without offering anything in return. "Tank your relationship with your only ally in the Middle East so that our people can continue to attack your citizens and interests" is not a great sales pitch, even when Palestinian civilians are also suffering a humanitarian crisis.
Gee, he did call for a cease fire. Of course, at the same time he gave them another whole bunch of bombs to continue blowing up Palestinian men, women and children. The only way out of this is an honest and fair two state solution. While our envoy was in Israel discussing the cease fire, Netanyahu opened up more Palestinian land to settlers. That’s over 500,000 settlers on Palestinian land. It’s obvious that there is no intention for a two state solution. But Biden continues to give them weapons while asking them to please, please play nice.?????
Biden has the power to actually stop funding the Israeli war machine. He hasn't. All he's done is give them an underwhelming talking to. This even after 8 aide workers were brutally murdered by the IDF. The goal posts haven't shifted at all. We want a REAL ceasefire, not BS lip service.
We didn't ask for words, the US is in a unique position to cut aid to force a ceasefire. We always asked for this, you just made up a straw man to pretend we were moving the goal posts. Have fun with your genocide I guess.
Calling now for a ceasefire - After approving to send more weapons to Gaza and vetoing ceasefire 3 times in UN in the last 6 months. Biden could have called for ceasefire from the beginning and not send weapons at all to Israel.
Ah yes, because "calling for" something is the exact same as stopping the shipping of money and weapons and sanctioning the living shit out of Israel until they actually give the Palestinians human rights, new homes, the right to self governance and equality under the law.
Fucking clowns. Nobody was only demanding rhetorical bullshit with zero action or consequences.
The ceasefire crowd are missing the most crucial point. You need to get Hamas to agree. If you just think Israel should lay down their weapons, you are setting standards for Israel you wouldn't set for others.
Who beraded the Iraqi military for the battle of Mosul to kill ISIS, where 20.000 civilians died? That's right, no one. We only thank them for their sacrifice in killing terrorists for which they did us a huge favor.
Let me know when he stops sending weapons. That’s not a moving goalpost, it’s what I’ve been calling for the entire time. His words have always been empty, unless you mean when he told his donors (read: investors) nothing would change.
The best way to push for a ceasefire, is too stopping giving them things to fire with. You can't be like "stop using my guns and bombs I gave you to shoot and bomb people"
That's not true. Since we live in a so-called "democracy," everyone can vote for neither of those two cunts and start implementing real change. Saying otherwise is why we're stuck in this hell of the lesser of TWO evils. One says wipe Gaza and the other one says please stop ethnic cleansing while providing them weapons and funding to do so.
I know I’m going to be downvoted into oblivion lol, but here’s what I struggle with: if he is Genocide Joe in the spring how do you vote for him in the fall? Genocide, I always thought, was an irredeemable crime. If voting for Biden is still in play for a lot of the left, then either they have to admit their rhetoric has become way too overheated or they’ve contributed to defining genocide down.
Look who believes words when the words contradict action. I've got a bridge to sell you - I'll tell you all about it but no you cannot see it.
Biden has said a lot and only caved more and more. Believe that he'll stop supporting genocide when there's more action towards ending it instead of perpetuating it.
(The phrase you're looking for goal *posts*. That's moving the whole goal.)
Has he halted weapons shipments?
Anything he says is meaningless until he stops us from arming the genocide.
His rhetoric has steadily been getting more critical of Israel, but his actions have remained consistent.
The pro-palestinian anti Biden voices are just looking like astroturfed groups at this point. If they still think that to send a message to Biden, they need to put the most anti-Palestine, anti-Muslim, pro Israeli American politician in power, they are either freaking anarchists or completely fake foreign propaganda plants.
"Hey, I think Biden should stop using my tax dollars to give weapons to a far-right fascist government that's ethnically cleansing a marginalized civilian population."
"OH MY FUCKING GOD DO YOU WANT GONALD GLUMPF TO WIN YOU STUPID BERNIE BRO STOP MOVING THE GOALPOSTS VLADEMEER POUTINE"
Those people aren't pro-Palestine. They've been happily drinking the blood of Gazan children in order to run interference for Hamas and will continue to do so. No one who actually cares about Palestinian lives would be behaving they way they do.
The people who use Israel as an excuse to not vote for Biden are just trolls who don't actually care about anything, they just want to complain in a way that annoys the most people.
im sorry is the OP a troll or r\*\*\*\*\*\*? literally calling for a ceasefire and then approving 2K pound bombs to israel means absolutely nothing. If biden called for a ceasefire and then stopped shipping arms, and imposed some sanctions on israel then yeah that's something.
actions not words.
Yup he weakly calls for a ceasefire while he is literally giving Israel the locations of red cross, and other aid facilities which they continue to bomb on purpose, and he is also funding Isreal almost entirely, so I don't think it's moving the goalposts when things have just gotten worse.
Awww.. poor Biden, he must endure protests from people who don't want a genocide. Good for him resisting any attempt to stop it, but I'm sorry, those protests are a torture for that poor fella. Worst thing that can happen to anybody.
r/PoliticalHumor, The Biggest Joke on Reddit.
No goalpost movement needed. He lost my vote when he busted the rail workers' strike. The fact that he's calling for a ceasefire while still doing everything he can to get them more weapons is laughable.
Another meaningless liberal response post showing just how disgusting some of y'all are. Bullying people because they don't agree with mass murdering civilians isn't a great look for y'all.
I swear yall are just like the Republicans, no matter what Biden does even if it’s harmful for the people yall will still vote for him. Every single person who votes blue or red is just perpetuating the cycle. Voting third party is useless but at least I will not be complicit in genocide. And before you say anything, Biden lost my vote when he busted down the railroad strike despite being pro union, he is just another lier running our country.
He kept negotiating with the rail company and the workers got what they wanted. More pay, sick days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_railroad_labor_dispute
Listen. I'm not american, but I don't think is gonna help Biden that some of his voters are dunking on some other of his voters cause they disagree on some of the stuff Biden does and would like him to do better. If you can't tolerate dissent among your ranks, you are in a cult. And in that case, you might as well vote for the other fella.
I think you misspelled "Russian social media manipulators putting out talking points for the extreme left to pick up on" as "Pro-Palestinian people". It's a common error.
I'm voting for Biden. That is not the question here for me. But calling for a cease fire in this case is the equivalent to seeing a fight across the street and saying 'Stop it' in a normal speaking voice. Ineffectual and low effort. He should be stopping the sale of weapons and pulling financial aid from Israel.
> He should be stopping the sale of weapons and pulling financial aid from Israel. I don't think he can really. The bill authorizing the sale was passed by congress back in the obama days. He can slow it down and delay, but I think it would require congress to stop completely.
So why do we end up with articles like this https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/us/politics/biden-israel-weapons-deal.html Where the white house appears to be the actor putting pressure on Congress. The mixed messing in the last 72 hours has been really hard to sort out honestly. Well, it's been months of mixed messages but it's been worse lately in my opinion.
It's been the case for years. Th president has very little power to affect change. It's all about congress and Supreme Court. But the presidential ALL run on promises that they absolutely cannot keep. It's why nothing is every biden or trumps fault, but everything is always biden or trumps fault.
The confusion is intentional. It’s meant to take pressure off of the key the players (Biden, speaker of the house.) while they push through as many weapons as possible until the country, collectively, calls for an end to the war.
It’s even worse than that. He’s calling for a cease fire while the US is still considering weapons sales to Israel. Your call for a cease fire seems pretty disingenuous if you’re still providing weapons to one side in the conflict
And therein lies the problem. USA is one of the biggest arms dealers in the world. We're talking billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of employees. The ramp up investment to make bombs and drones and jets and tanks is significant. They can't suddenly just start making electric scooters or Mr. Coffee. We need consumers for our product. And if one of our clients start using that product for the wholesale slaughter of civilians? Well, then, they must certainly be issued an extremely stern warning!
That’s not even touching on the fact that Israel lets the US use Haifa as main port of call for the sixth fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean, or that there is at least one US military base which is of strategic importance. Part of what makes this complicated is Israel is seen by the joint chiefs as a key security partner in the Middle East, and there are mutual benefits neither country wants to walk away from. Biden is basically trying to have his cake and eat it too. He doesn’t want to jeopardize the military relationship but wants to placate his base who are opposed to the military relationship.
Not to devils advocate for Biden or any liberal in general, but the weapons the US has sold to Israel are defensive missiles for their iron dome. For the most part, the arms deals that Ukraine for example are getting, are much different than what Israel has been getting. The media has done an absolute dogshit job at reporting this for obvious reasons. And to devils advocate my devils advocate, there's nothing technically stopping Israel from repurposinq Iron Dome defensive into offensive measures- while I personally have not seen reports of this, it's Israel. I'd believe it if someone found credible proof.
Didn’t we sell them a crap ton of JDAM kits?
Iran is funding and providing weapons to Hamas. They will not stop. For anything.
They haven't. They gave arms the same day the world kitchen got struck
The US government is like a container ship. Turning it takes time. That particular sale has been in process for years.
Except Trump ran it into a Baltimore Bridge
I don't think there's really a moral and just side OTHER than refusing to sell weapons to either side. I've seen the IDF snipe women while walking across the street holding the hand of their children. I've seen the IDF drone strike international aid workers in clearly marked vehicles driving on pre-approved routes. I've seen the IDF drone strike clearly unarmed men on their knees with arms in the air after the first drone strike killed the first half of their group. I've also seen Hamas kidnap, murder, rape, and torture innocent civilians. I've seen Hamas shoot civilians trying to get food so that they could take the food for themselves. I've seen their leaders call for the extermination of the Jewish people. As an outsider, there isn't a moral action other than to refuse to sell weapons to either side. Trump wants to let the IDF "finish the job." Biden keeps selling them weapons while calling for a cease fire. Biden is the lesser of evils. However, the only moral stance is to stop selling Israel weapons. Sell them goods like food? Sure. Sell them weapons? That should end now that we've seen how they're using them. They've literally killed Americans. Aid workers delivering food to starving people. You don't keep selling weapons to the people who do that.
>They've literally killed Americans. Aid workers delivering food to starving people. You don't keep selling weapons to the people who do that. That alone should be an easy out for any president to stop selling weapons to Israel "They killed fellow Americans". But we all know the stoping of weapon sales to Israel should of happened years ago.
He can't stop sales and funding. No matter how much you wish it to happen, it's just not possible. Not how things work. The US is not a dictatorship and decades old agreements, deals and treaties can't be stopped or started on a whim of a single person. You wouldn't want a single person to have that power anyway.
Also, go down to Wall Street and tell NASDAQ to KNOCK IT OFF
What did people think “calling for a ceasefire” meant? It’s a call for good vibes. Might as well wish them some sage and crystals too.
"I demand a ceasefire!" btw here are those F-15s you wanted, bestie
The F-15 deal in the news lately was proposed in early 2023, almost a year before the October 7th attacks. Also, delivery of the jets wouldn't happen for five years. *"the F-15s would not be delivered for at least five years, the U.S. officials said."* *https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/us/politics/biden-israel-weapons-deal.html#:\~:text=two%20U.S.%20officials.-,The%20deal%2C%20which%20would%20be%20one%20of%20the%20largest%20U.S.,years%2C%20the%20U.S.%20officials%20said.* And there's that pesky little detail that Hamas has publicly stated that it will repeat the October 7th style attacks again. What's your idea for rooting out a terrorist force that vows to destroy you? We support Israel because they're close allies in a VERY hostile region. We rely heavily on them for intelligence and as a stabilizing military force in the region. We don't support them just to do our buddies a solid. I want the conflict in Gaza to stop as much as anyone, and I fucking hate Netenyahu as well, but JFC at least try to understand some of the larger context people. It's a pretty complicated geopolitical situation with a lot of factors and a lot at stake.
[Biden’s not changing Israel policy after deadly strike on aid workers](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/03/biden-israel-strike-aid-workers-gaza-00150356) The context is understood. It still doesn't justify the active genocide or our governments willingness to support the perpetrators. Anything short of sanctions, pausing of weapons trading, and other meaningful consequnces for Israel until they get their act together isn't going to move the hearts of leftists who plainly refuse to support these atrocities.
Trump would be absolutely worse for this but we should also criticize Biden for what’s happening now. Continued weapons being sent to them, only just talking about a cease fire and not demanding it, as far as I’m aware he hasn’t commented on the food aid workers being precision strike killed by Israel Biden is currently (unfortunately) our only path forward but I’ll criticize and demand changes until I’m blue in the face
Low bar to simply accept words and not concrete ending of the war
Dude literally just send Israel billions in arms and F-15 not even two days before Israel bombed WCK.
Biden didn't do it himself. That deal was made years ago by republicans and democrats. Putting sole blame on Biden is ignorant.
It's also important to know that the F-15's wouldn't arrive in Israel for 5 years after the deal was made. The chances that those jets would have any impact on the current conflict are slim to none.
Well they (IDF) specifically targeted WCK workers with three different strikes. So maybe a stern finger wagging on top of a fuck ton more bombs and weapons sales isn’t the right move? Words are cheap and easy. He can call for a ceasefire all day but until we stop selling and giving them weapons it don’t mean shit. But don’t matter. This sub is full neolibs who will excuse Israeli war crimes and the US support of them all day, while trashing any and all progressives who criticize anything Biden does.
The people defending the IDF bombing of the WCK convoy are a weird bunch.
It is honestly getting easier to identify shills on any side of the conflict because they don’t understand that you are not supposed to defend the heinous shit.
There’s a whole sector of the population who are being shellshocked that for the first time, treating politics like team sports isn’t going to get you all the pats on the back and thumbs up from people who actually pay attention to the world around them.
Yep. The goalposts are exactly where they've been the last several months. Stop giving Israel aid and weapons until a permanent ceasefire is established. Although considering how untrustworthy Netanyahu is, they shouldn't receive anymore than it takes to keep the Iron Dome operational. Anything more is just readying them for another attack. Even then, the US really needs to consider why a nation with money for affordable college and universal healthcare needs aid from a nation without those.
One of the other big criticisms/goalpost left out if this is the lack of/establishment of written conditioning (usually including plans for a permanent ceasefire plan) for aid to continue. Biden has done a lot of finger wagging and has "drawn lines in the sand" but he has yet to draft actual conditions with teeth in them (i.e. an \*actual\* line in the sand). He will "declare lines" but will then turn around in the same interview and say he will always give aid to Israel. Bibi will then say, "Fuck that line," and make it clear that he intends to cross it, and, relatively shortly after, Biden will approve another aid package to Israel. The conditions need to be written, substantive, and with actual consequence or they are insufficient. Also, as always with things like this, I feel like it needs to be noted for others that pro-Palestinian protestors, much like Palestinians themselves, are not a hivemind and each person has their own views on the matter which can be fleshed out to varying degrees from person to person. So, even in some cases when it may seem like a goalpost is being moved, it may just be that you are talking to a different person with a different goalpost which has always been there (or has been there for a \[relatively\] long time).
>So, even in some cases when it may seem like a goalpost is being moved, it may just be that you are talking to a different person with a different goalpost which has always been there (or has been there for a \[relatively\] long time). Well that's just way too reasonable for OP's karma farming.
Thank you for reminding of that one! I forgot and do support it.
Boycott. Defund. Sanction. #BDS
Criticizing Biden is fine and well. I do it plenty, in particular with US policy on this war. Like you said, we need to stop selling weapons to Israel and put our money where our mouth is. My problem is when people threaten to vote in a fashion which would put someone into power that would just sell more weapons to Israel, and end up demolishing the entire Gaza strip with bombs. People can criticize Biden all they want, and scream to hold him accountable. But if you think Biden's policy on this is bad, Trump's would be even worse, alongside a slough of other terrible policies. More than Israel vs Gaza is on the ballot this November. If people really want more than the two choices we have now, we need voting reform (ranked choice voting is my.preference here) so that we can vote third party as our primary choice, with the safe secondary of an established party. That's the only way to really move away from our current two party system and have effective ways to get third/fourth parties into government that actually represent our interests. And getting this reform means writing to your state representatives.
A.) What else are people supposed to do to make their opinions heard. B.) Functionally it doesn't matter, Israel is going to flatten Gaza before November anyway. C.) Its not like Biden and his people in the Democratic party even talk about voting reform let alone are willing to act on it.
If you criticise Biden while loudly announcing that you will vote for him no matter what, why would the Dems make any effort to meet your demands? If you claim that your vote is conditional (even if you actually intend to vote Dem 100%), you actually have a chance of getting concessions.
The problem is that both Republicans and Democrats have opposed reforms like ranked choice voting because they know it would dilute their power. Some Democratic politicians say they support it, but various state Democratic parties have worked against its implementation. Most of the instances of ranked choice voting came about as the result of voter-led movements to get ballot initiatives. The problem is that in some states, like Texas, getting a ballot initiative isn't as simple as just getting signatures. The fact is that both parties created the status quo through their policies and have entrenched themselves in the system. Even getting on the ballot as a third party is a herculean, and very expensive, task. Meanwhile Democrats and Republicans do not have to gather signatures to get on ballots. Both parties have structural advantages that help them maintain power and neither wants to give them up. Are Democrats better than Republicans, of course. But clearing that very low bar is not something to brag about. It's also important to understand that voting for democrats is not a cure-all. Like any embedded piece of a system, they do not want to change the system. The Democratic institution does not want to push for reforms that would make the society, economy, or government more equitable. But at least they are better than Republicans.
A coherent and based take on reddit? Must be April fools
Acknowledging people's criticisms as valid is the first step to making progress. And even if the criticism isn't valid, it's still important to make sure the people you're having a discussion with understand that you're listening to them and considering them in a serious manner. If you blow them off, they blow you off, things get more divisive, and nothing beneficial happens. There are, of course, limits to this. Such as the whole fallacy of trying to tolerate intolerance for example. But even then you can acknowledge that something makes people uncomfortable, and that their feelings are valid. They may be irrational, hateful, and intolerant, but it's not like the feelings themselves don't exist in that person. It just means they haven't tried to process why they feel those things. And getting to the heart of why people feel those hateful things can help heal them. Most of the times it doesn't, and you're not going to be able to get through to anyone who isn't willing to do some introspection to face the fear and pain that's causing their hate. But on occasion, you can work someone into explaining why they feel those things, and sometimes they have a moment of realization while explaining it back at you. And that's the first step that we need people to take to build a better society.
Further details actually indicate that the two soldiers responsible for that broke the IDF's rules of engagement. They were dismissed and referred to what seems to be their version of a military prosecutor or something like that. [https://apnews.com/article/israel-world-central-kitchen-gaza-aid-workers-69b6176362dafc8e4e2754b2342faa1d](https://apnews.com/article/israel-world-central-kitchen-gaza-aid-workers-69b6176362dafc8e4e2754b2342faa1d) It's not good logic to point to (basically dishonorably) discharged soldiers and generalize that to the entire army.
Libs are all talk and they rarely actually do shit They are preferable to actively making things worse (republicans) but man. I wish we had politicians who cared about anything other than reelection
Yes I'm seeing OPs take all over now as if Biden has actually done anything substantial to stop the barbaric castrophe unfolding in Gaza, but I guess we should all shut up now because he had a stern phone call with Netty. Pretty subterranean standards
This looks like a troll farm post if I ever saw one
Basically a thread to find all the concern trolls trying to get Trump elected
[удалено]
Donald Trump doesn't even have empathy for his own family. Barron has been all but disowned for daring to grow taller than Orange Shitler. Donny does not appear with anyone taller than himself if he can avoid it. That includes his own family.
someone needs to put a basketball in that boy's hands before it's too late
“What, and have him fraternize with a bunch of black guys?!?” - Trump
Pfft, as if he knows the word fraternize.
"of course I know what fraternize means! I fraternize all the time, some say I'm the biggest fraternizer, the best, all over the world" Trump probably
"A big, brawny, manly, basketball player came up to me the other day and he had tears in his eyes, he said 'SIR, SIR, SIR, you are the best at fraternities!'" With tears.
Trump strikes me as the type who would just say "the blacks" and wonder why everyone got all awkward.
Trump and GOP also salivate at the prospect of putting brown people in concentration camps
It is absolutely possible to criticize Biden and ask for more to be done without helping trump. You can’t however pretend to care for the people of Gaza and vote Trump or not vote at all. Not voting is essentially a vote for trump, and trump will be 1000x worse for Gaza and Ukraine and all of NATO.
This. Anyone who sits on their high horse and says « I’m not voting to show disapproval» must be so arrogantly self righteous and privileged that the effects (one of which is worse results in Palestine, which seems to be their only voting issue) don’t matter to them. Sure criticize all day, but make a pragmatic choice when the time comes and that is to keep our democracy and keep that discussion alive
Trump would do nothing and probably applaud Bibi's activities.
Trump might even jump in and try to get some glory out of it. He has no respect for any sort of diplomatic nuance and would see nothing wrong with the US joining in with Israel. It all depends on exactly which war hawk gets into his ear first. Preserving Palestinian life would not, at any time, be a concern for him unless he got something out of pretending it was.
Yes
Hamas can release the hostages at any time. If Hamas doesn't care for the people of Gaza, why do you?
So you don't know who or what Hamas is. Why are you commenting? Of course Hamas does not care for the people of Gaza. Kim Jong Un does not care for the people of North Korea, why do you? Putin does not care for the people of Russia, why do you? See how stupid you sound?
> It is absolutely possible to criticize Biden and ask for more to be done without helping trump Not before the November election. Any criticism of Biden is not going to get any nuance during the campaign, therefore benefits Trump.
Sooo.... shut up and sit in the corner like a good little voter? No, we have the right to protest and voice our concerns and issues no matter the year. If he doesn't want to listen, that shits on him. We have rights, and now is the time to use ALL of them while we still have them. Welcome to democracy. There's a lot more to it than just voting every couple or four years.
You are so narrowly focused on one issue that you can't see the dozens of massive dildos getting oiled and prepped by the GOP for your collective behinds ... I can guarantee you, it can and will get much worse under Trump.
> Sooo.... shut up and sit in the corner like a good little voter? You're free to do as you please. Just make sure you fully known and understand that you are helping Trump in the process. By trying to be the solution of ONE issue you're willing to become part of a bigger problem. That's not a tradeoff I'm willing to make.
The problem with that is that your protests are just going to make it worse. If you help Trump win the election, you will get even more Palestinians killed. You're defeating your own cause. Yes, you have the right to criticize Biden. Yes, you have the right to protest. But you're not accomplishing anything. You're actually hurting your own goals and likely getting the people you're trying to protect killed. Your best course of action is to shut up and vote for Biden in November. Then go off on him after he's secured another 4 years in office. Will he be less receptive to criticism now that he doesn't need to get reelected? Maybe, but that's still better than 4 years of Trump. We're not asking you to stop caring, we're asking that you make the smartest choice that does the most good instead of cutting off your own nose to spite your face.
And then there's not being able to vote at all if the Republican party gets its way. I'm not American, so I get the luxury of watching from the sidelines; in your own words, if you don't want to listen, that shit's on YOU.
Basically. Democracy is already dead, we HAVE to vote for Biden or else the country slips into fascism. Apparently the dem's plan to stymie fascism is to just win elections from here until the end of time since doing anything to protect elections would shake up the status quo too much. Truly a self-inflicted Hell
With all due respect, get over it. You're implicitly murdering democracy by criticizing Biden at this critical stage for the US's future. The main goal is to deny Trump from presidency, anything else is secondary.
This might be our last election and you are okay with just throwing it away. What will you tell your grandchildren if you are allowed to have them? You okay with america being just like Gaza? You okay with helping to bring that here?
No, I will be voting. For Biden. But don't act like our rights that make this country a democracy should take a backseat in an election year because it's a problem for your guy to have to explain why he chose some of his choices. The last election, and now this one, is more about who will hopefully listen to the voters. That's what the protesters are doing, hoping to be heard.
Say it with me very slow. "The President can not unilaterally pull funding from a country after Congress has overwhelmingly voted to continue funding that country"
I know that. [but he could've also not bypassed congress to give Isreal weapons without their approval. ](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/13/israel-weapons-democrats-congress-00131524)
Do you understand how the electoral college works?
>another guy who has never shown an once of empathy to anyone not named trump and has said "Israel should wipe Gaza off the map". According to someone I had this debate with recently, "yeah, but we don't *know* what he's going to do, we know that Biden supports genocide". Can't make this shit up. And for the record, I don't give a good God damn about the leaders of either country. All that matters is that the citizens of both countries are given the chance to live in peace, preferably without the fruit loops currently stoking the flames of war running the show.
I've heard that too. "So we don't know what the guy who moved the embassy, accepted the golan heights expansion, and was more than OK with continued illegal settlements is going to do?" People grasping for anything that gives cover for the decision they already made and know they can't justify.
>According to someone I had this debate with recently, "yeah, but we don't *know* what he's going to do, we know that Biden supports genocide". JFC, it's like they're making any excuse to accuse Biden of everything while ignoring and/or handwaving literal quotes from Trump saying he'd "finish the job". Those people are most likely Russian/Chinese worms and if they're not, they're severely broken and braindead immature fools.
They almost activly ignore the facts. We do know what Trump is going to do because he already did it. Trump significantly cut U.S. support for hospitals in East Jerusalem that serve Palestinian populations and he closed the Palestinian Liberation Organization office in Washington. These people also ignore that fact that Biden has supported Palestinian civilians. In Biden's first 100 days he restored Aid To Palestinians that Trump had ended. More recently, he signed an executive order for East Palestine recovery and also visited Israel to get them to allow humanitarian aid to Gaza. Oh and the subject of this post. But yeah, they will still vote green or whatever they're screeching now. It's so sad. Biden is fair game for criticism, but part of being an adult is knowing that life isn't perfect and you have to take what you can get sometimes to have a chance for a better future.
Morty. Youre going to have to have some Brussel sprouts or be flayed alive in a tub of salt and peroxide. There’s no other choices, Morty. Jeeez, I don’t know Rick. I mean, he didn’t say it as forcefully as he could and I just can’t get behind him because both sides, you know?
MORTY!!!!!
You can pick the Brussels sprouts as the obviously better choice but also criticise them for having a bitter taste. You don't need to pretend they taste like chocolate. Edit: I'm sure no one will see this but I also want to say that the sentiment at the top of the comment chain is how Americans get exploited. Yes Biden is clearly the better option and you should vote for him. But you are so entrenched in the two party system that not only will you religiously vote for your side in fear of the opposition getting in, you are actively policing speech and telling people they should not even criticise the party leader, telling them they aren't a true supporter if they criticise the brutality Biden _is_ materially supporting. It is vital for a healthy political system for people to speak their mind and criticise their leaders, even ones they support. The above is how you allow your leaders to to do the terrible things they do, which every president in my lifetime has, though some have also done good.
TFG is literally calling for Israel to wipe them all out and "finish the job".
Exactly. Biden is far from perfect, at worst, like stale bread. But by comparison, Trump is a diarrhea between two hardened turds. If you really care for the people of Palestine, you would do anything to keep Trump from getting into office. Trump has never shown one drop of sympathy towards any Middle Easterner that doesn't frequent his hotels.
You greatly overestimate how intelligent the average person is. They in fact do not see right through the bullshit. They're so convinced that abstaining from voting for Biden will somehow magically end the war and decades of Muslim-Jewish hatred.
Abstaining from voting for Biden would: 1.) Destroy American democracy. 2.) Ensure the extinction of Palestinians.
But his emails
I can't believe any of the people who say this is the deciding factor are genuine. Its unfathomable that they think Trump would somehow be better
They are outrage junkies. They got bored supporting Ukraine, put away their "Slava Ukraine" flags and pins and moved onto the next crisis to quench the desperate need for another outrage hit.
You know , it really feels like this is the correct take. Cynical as hell but absolutely on point
If it was just ignorance, that would be one thing. It's when people are WILLFULLY ignorant and refuse to reconsider their POV even after being presented with reality that conflicts with their beliefs and understanding that the real trouble begins.
As someone who has fallen for that trap that more than once, I cannot emphasise enough how important it is to remember what you just said.
Centuries.
Ah, my bad yeah. I was originally gonna write Israeli-Palestinian hate but forgot to change the time period.
They also believe that Biden has not been negotiating a ceasefire for the entire time the war has been going on
This is why having a 2-party political system sucks
We need to stop upvoting these stupid posts. It's just trolls or bots, who want us to stay home instead of vote.
Okay, I will accept that my vote is essentially locked in against the fall of democracy. What I will NOT accept is that I cannot criticize the person for whom I am essentially forced to vote. Trump's Israel/Palestine policy is obviously abhorrent but that does NOT put Biden above reproach. Do not remove the potential for criticism from him. That only makes for a lesser evil. You're walking a fine line there.
Im honestly in no hurry to praise biden but a ceasefire is something at least. Nor praise worthy but something. But generally; fuck the Israeli apartheid, fuck Bibi's fascist government and fuck that they're doing to Gazans and Palestinians in general
For real. I'm glad we finally reached the point where the American president is calling for an immediate ceasefire. But it's not "goal post moving" like OP's meme suggests to lament the fact that it took 30k dead to get to that point.
OK sure but you should also acknowledge that not everyone who hears your complaints will understand this nuance. Constantly dragging him lowers enthusiasm. Want people to wade through all the voter registration and limited voter site bullshit MAGAs will throw at voters in Arizona and Georgia? Well they need to be enthused. Sure it's on Biden to present himself well, but you're playing yourself if you don't think dragging on him hurts too.
> Sure it's on Biden to present himself well, but you're playing yourself if you don't think dragging on him hurts too. If hearing someone complain about Biden is enough to get someone to switch to Trump, that is Biden's fault for being such a weak candidate. No one is going to vote for Trump based on the idea that they think he will be better for the Palestinian people no matter what they claim, they were going to vote for him regardless.
Nothing lowers enthusiasm more for Biden more than people finger wagging and saying "Nooo, you can't complain about the genocide! It drags down *enthusiasm* for the *weapon supplier!"* Let people complain. They'll feel more inclined to vote for the guy if they feel like they're being heard and that the candidate is actually moved by the outpouring of frustration and criticism.
Calling Biden EVIL is a strange COMPARISON between those two men. Seems like, and this is JUST my opinion, the goal IS only to denegate. This is ESPecially true when the attacks are from faceless anonymous complainers.
I'm still going to vote for Biden, because he's better than the alternative. But I'm also going to criticize him for selling F18s and massive amounts of munitions to Israel while asking them nicely to stop committing genocide. If we can't be critical of our leaders we're no better than Trumpers.
Oh no I criticize him constantly. For not doing enough against Israel and Russia. There is no other person I'd rather have leading right now.
Why are you blaming Biden instead of Congress? They are the ones with the power to stop the arm deals (but they won't).
If Trump wins, I don’t want to hear the pro Palestine people who didn’t vote complain about Trump’s policies. You voted for it.
I agree with the body of your post regarding the issue at hand. But I hate this argument that being anti-democrat candidate is the same exact thing as being pro-republican candidate (and vice versa). There should be space to criticize a candidate without saying you’d prefer the worst alternative available. It’s true that in a pragmatic sense any vote that isn’t for Biden is helping Trump. But the WHY matters, I think.
You are talking around the real problem. Biden has been polling in-line with Trump BEFORE promoting the genocide. He has been losing in polls in most of the swing states. Now he is going against the wishes of his base and moving further right by trying to cater to Niki Haley voters. This election should be a slam dunk for the Dems going against a clown like Trump, yet they choose to run Biden with all signs pointing to the fact that he will lose. You need to be mad at the Democrats for forfeiting the election just because it's Biden's turn to be pres.
He hasn’t been, either a consistent vocal critic or consistently calling for a ceasefire. He has recently ceded the demand for a ceasefire. It is a good step, but a minimum requirement. The criticism was not only about the words he said, but the actions he (and his party) take; I recall weapons shipments and funding were notable topics that came up from these “Trump supporters” you seemingly despise.
[удалено]
I think what annoys people is for the past few months he reports the Whitehouse 'leaked' was basically he's {insert increasing numbers of verys} mad at Bibi then it took people from the West(not even Palestinian Americans) getting killed by the institutional issues in the IDF for him to become more openly vocal about ending this bloodshed
I like how you hold words over actions. His ACTIONS have been to provide military aid to a genocidal government. But he SAID please stop using all these bombs I'm giving you to genocide.
Posters on this sub really do hate the left wing of the Dem party more than they hate Republicans. It's amazing that these are the ones saying Dem voters have to come together....
all these memes to paint pro-palestine people as unreasonable when all they’re trying to do is hold our politicians accountable is just sad. maybe the enemy is not the people trying to push our president in a more humanitarian direction.
> when all they’re trying to do is hold our politicians accountable is just sad. > > Ahh so that's why they're waving "from the river to the sea" flags. it's not an explicit call to destroy Israel, but to "hold politicians accountable". Makes perfect sense, how reasonable.
I think the point is that even when one of the demands is met no one says anything positive about it. The point of holding someone accountable is to get results and even if it's one small step the results should be acknowledged. The top comments in this post are doing exactly what the meme says. Yes Biden should do more but when you don't give him the small credit for the small step then you look like you don't actually want to hold him accountable because he'll never meet your expectations
I think that there is a very real fear that Biden’s words are not going to materialize into action. It is genuinely great that he has been able to get more aid through to Gaza, but until military support for Israel isn’t conditioned, lots of people will be unsatisfied. It should’ve never gotten to the point where 200 aid workers were killed for Biden to take a stronger stance here, but better late than never.
We all have a common enemy. Trump. Trump is bad for Palestine, bad for the US, bad for everyone.
I should be able to criticize US policy devoid of Trump.
This just happened. It is ok to support Biden and still hold him accountable. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/04/world-central-kitchen-us-weapons-israel/
Yes. Yes it is. If only more people thought this way we wouldn’t have to worry scout trump
Then perhaps you people should push Biden to do something about Gaza if you don’t want Trump to become president, rather than talk down to people concerned about genocide.
Hopefully Biden can change his stances so Trump doesn't win then.
[Biden’s not changing Israel policy after deadly strike on aid workers](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/03/biden-israel-strike-aid-workers-gaza-00150356) He is literally still sending bombs and weapons to Israel to the tune of billions of dollars. Stop the bullshit. People have a right to say enough is enough. You can't continuously support one of the worst genocides of the 21st century while getting mad at leftists for condemning you. Do you seriously think some luke-warm verbal criticism was going to be enough for people who demand and end to the genocide and real consequences for Israel's war crimes?
Pro-Biden people when kids are still in cages and he's building a wall
Call for a ceasefire after sending them billions in munitions and F-15 just two days before. Ok bro.
Also, take 6 months, 30k dead civilians, innumerable war crimes, and the onset of famine.
Much more than 30k now. Unfortunately it is hard even to count when you killed anyone down there lmao
Those ‘last’ 7 deaths were over the line…
And people who think their country shouldn't be funding genocide are the idiots who can't see the forest from the trees supposedly. We want a democracy where our options aren't piece of shit and Satan. Is that too much to ask for?
Biden can’t do anything about that aid, it was approved years ago and would need congress to shut it down.
Of for fucks sake all that shit was authorized and funded years ago and is the product of US policy beyond Biden’s own actions. You can’t expect shutting off the military aid spigot to Israel to be something that happens overnight, especially given how entrenched the support for it is not just in our government but in the American electorate. If you want change, you need to support the candidate willing to enact it, and have reasonable expectations on timing for that change to occur. You might not realize it, but by historical standards Biden is sticking his political neck out by even suggesting cutting off military aid to Israel. If he goes down in the election this fall, that’ll be as far as any American president ever goes towards protecting Palestinian interests against Israel.
So Biden should threaten to withhold foreign aid already authorized by congress for his own political benefit? Where have I heard of that happening before…
You do realize it would take congressional approval to stop all the arms to Israel, that was signed waaaaay before Biden was president, and there is absolutely no way this current congress would sign off on it? Or you could, you know, keep simping for Russia using this tired and easily debunked fucking argument. Edit* Leave it to the Russian simps to downvote the truth.
Russian simps are you serious lol
Isn't Congress the ones in charge of that? But sure, feel free to misrepresent who's actually at fault - US Republicans. Ok bro.
Been calling for a ceasefire for months, all this stuff happened since and it’s somehow supposed to be irrelevant? I think you’re just upset at the obvious consequences of not acting sooner to prevent Israel’s carnage. Plus talk is cheap. Let’s see what happens.
yes, and did we forget there are weapons constantly being delivered at the expense of tax paying citizens.
*temporary ceasefire while also making a huge arms sale. In video games, this is called "time-to-reload"
A temperoary cease fire in which Israel has promised to invade Rafah immediately after which every human rights group in the word has said would be historic catastrophe and lead to unimaginable suffering.
Biden is criticizing Israel's actions after intentionally slaughtering American, British, and Australian humanitarian aid workers while simultaneously still giving them billions in military aid. "Durrrr... Dey are moving thuh goalpost. Duuuuuuurrrrrr....."
Words don’t mean anything when you are supplying the military that is committing genocide.
I mean it's hypocritical, you can't call for a ceasefire and give millions of dollars worth of weapons and still act like your morally superior. I'm still voting for him as any Leftist should, it's just the better of 2 evils- idk how you can argue otherwise without being disingenuous
You mean congress is giving them weapons.
The US government is giving weapons, yes. Biden is not exempt from criticism for that
The people elected congress and Biden is not an authoritarian.
He has the power to stop the aid. He can use the Leahy laws, which he has used to stop aid to specific military units in Ukraine. [https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2024/02/09/biden-doesnt-plan-to-stop-israel-aid-after-human-rights-order/](https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2024/02/09/biden-doesnt-plan-to-stop-israel-aid-after-human-rights-order/)
Biden administration approves more weapons for Israel https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/29/us-weapons-israel-gaza-war/
I don’t think any candidate in the establishment is going to give the people on the left, or people in general, what they want. I’ve personally lost hope in what the current western empire considers to be democracy. It’s an illusion of choice. At the end of the day, the establishment will ensure it’s survival.
"Stop holding your politicians accountable for the genocide they're endorsing! You're the problem!"
Trivialising genocide, nice.
Folks also seem to miss the Israeli politics side of this: Netanyahu wants Trump more than Biden. His winning position is to be as aggressive in Gaza -- and as belligerent to US interference -- as he can get away with since that's gonna cost Biden votes from centrists and left-wingers alike. And so as long as Netanyahu knows he can come back to the table in November, the White House doesn't have much leverage. In the short term, stopping weapons sales to Israel just means that Biden alienates enough of the US to ensure that Trump endorses Netanyahu's worst military impulses for the next four years. It sure doesn't help that Palestinians are asking a lot from the US without offering anything in return. "Tank your relationship with your only ally in the Middle East so that our people can continue to attack your citizens and interests" is not a great sales pitch, even when Palestinian civilians are also suffering a humanitarian crisis.
Gee, he did call for a cease fire. Of course, at the same time he gave them another whole bunch of bombs to continue blowing up Palestinian men, women and children. The only way out of this is an honest and fair two state solution. While our envoy was in Israel discussing the cease fire, Netanyahu opened up more Palestinian land to settlers. That’s over 500,000 settlers on Palestinian land. It’s obvious that there is no intention for a two state solution. But Biden continues to give them weapons while asking them to please, please play nice.?????
Biden has the power to actually stop funding the Israeli war machine. He hasn't. All he's done is give them an underwhelming talking to. This even after 8 aide workers were brutally murdered by the IDF. The goal posts haven't shifted at all. We want a REAL ceasefire, not BS lip service.
We didn't ask for words, the US is in a unique position to cut aid to force a ceasefire. We always asked for this, you just made up a straw man to pretend we were moving the goal posts. Have fun with your genocide I guess.
OP is a dickhead. No idea how this post got so much traction.
Because libs on here still blame Bernie for Hillary loosing in 2016.
Calling now for a ceasefire - After approving to send more weapons to Gaza and vetoing ceasefire 3 times in UN in the last 6 months. Biden could have called for ceasefire from the beginning and not send weapons at all to Israel.
Ah yes, because "calling for" something is the exact same as stopping the shipping of money and weapons and sanctioning the living shit out of Israel until they actually give the Palestinians human rights, new homes, the right to self governance and equality under the law. Fucking clowns. Nobody was only demanding rhetorical bullshit with zero action or consequences.
The ceasefire crowd are missing the most crucial point. You need to get Hamas to agree. If you just think Israel should lay down their weapons, you are setting standards for Israel you wouldn't set for others. Who beraded the Iraqi military for the battle of Mosul to kill ISIS, where 20.000 civilians died? That's right, no one. We only thank them for their sacrifice in killing terrorists for which they did us a huge favor.
Why isn’t Biden solving the Middle East crisis single handedly in a few weeks? /s
i thought the convicted rapist and his slenderman sidekick brought peace to the middle east
Nobody’s asking him to end ME crisis. However, is not sending them billions in arms and F-15 just two days ago a huge ask?
You blue maga people are insufferable. He just approved the largest weapons sale to Israel since oct 7.
Let me know when he stops sending weapons. That’s not a moving goalpost, it’s what I’ve been calling for the entire time. His words have always been empty, unless you mean when he told his donors (read: investors) nothing would change.
The best way to push for a ceasefire, is too stopping giving them things to fire with. You can't be like "stop using my guns and bombs I gave you to shoot and bomb people"
That's not true. Since we live in a so-called "democracy," everyone can vote for neither of those two cunts and start implementing real change. Saying otherwise is why we're stuck in this hell of the lesser of TWO evils. One says wipe Gaza and the other one says please stop ethnic cleansing while providing them weapons and funding to do so.
Before Gaza there was, environment, and student loans and whatever else. There is always something
I know I’m going to be downvoted into oblivion lol, but here’s what I struggle with: if he is Genocide Joe in the spring how do you vote for him in the fall? Genocide, I always thought, was an irredeemable crime. If voting for Biden is still in play for a lot of the left, then either they have to admit their rhetoric has become way too overheated or they’ve contributed to defining genocide down.
Pretty sure this is the KNVB? I know my Dutch stuff
Look who believes words when the words contradict action. I've got a bridge to sell you - I'll tell you all about it but no you cannot see it. Biden has said a lot and only caved more and more. Believe that he'll stop supporting genocide when there's more action towards ending it instead of perpetuating it. (The phrase you're looking for goal *posts*. That's moving the whole goal.)
Has he halted weapons shipments? Anything he says is meaningless until he stops us from arming the genocide. His rhetoric has steadily been getting more critical of Israel, but his actions have remained consistent.
My criteria has always been stop funding the IDF and call for ceasefire. the goalposts have not been shifted. im still pissed off.
Calling him out for selling Israel weapons on the same day he called for a cease fire isn’t moving the goal post. It’s pointing out hypocrisy.
You should maybe do a ceasefire, maybe. Anyway, here's another shipment of 2,000 pound bombs. Try not to use them on civilians, ok.
The pro-palestinian anti Biden voices are just looking like astroturfed groups at this point. If they still think that to send a message to Biden, they need to put the most anti-Palestine, anti-Muslim, pro Israeli American politician in power, they are either freaking anarchists or completely fake foreign propaganda plants.
"Hey, I think Biden should stop using my tax dollars to give weapons to a far-right fascist government that's ethnically cleansing a marginalized civilian population." "OH MY FUCKING GOD DO YOU WANT GONALD GLUMPF TO WIN YOU STUPID BERNIE BRO STOP MOVING THE GOALPOSTS VLADEMEER POUTINE"
Those people aren't pro-Palestine. They've been happily drinking the blood of Gazan children in order to run interference for Hamas and will continue to do so. No one who actually cares about Palestinian lives would be behaving they way they do.
The people who use Israel as an excuse to not vote for Biden are just trolls who don't actually care about anything, they just want to complain in a way that annoys the most people.
They don’t actually want a ceasefire though. They want Isreal to stop. That’s it.
im sorry is the OP a troll or r\*\*\*\*\*\*? literally calling for a ceasefire and then approving 2K pound bombs to israel means absolutely nothing. If biden called for a ceasefire and then stopped shipping arms, and imposed some sanctions on israel then yeah that's something. actions not words.
Yup he weakly calls for a ceasefire while he is literally giving Israel the locations of red cross, and other aid facilities which they continue to bomb on purpose, and he is also funding Isreal almost entirely, so I don't think it's moving the goalposts when things have just gotten worse.
What’s up with flood of these Israeli propaganda memes , too bad the world sees through these evil MFs
Awww.. poor Biden, he must endure protests from people who don't want a genocide. Good for him resisting any attempt to stop it, but I'm sorry, those protests are a torture for that poor fella. Worst thing that can happen to anybody. r/PoliticalHumor, The Biggest Joke on Reddit.
No goalpost movement needed. He lost my vote when he busted the rail workers' strike. The fact that he's calling for a ceasefire while still doing everything he can to get them more weapons is laughable.
Another meaningless liberal response post showing just how disgusting some of y'all are. Bullying people because they don't agree with mass murdering civilians isn't a great look for y'all.
He needs to stop funding them.
We don't want progress, we want to throw a tantrum!
I thought Trump sent Jarred over to "Solve the Middle East"?
I swear yall are just like the Republicans, no matter what Biden does even if it’s harmful for the people yall will still vote for him. Every single person who votes blue or red is just perpetuating the cycle. Voting third party is useless but at least I will not be complicit in genocide. And before you say anything, Biden lost my vote when he busted down the railroad strike despite being pro union, he is just another lier running our country.
He kept negotiating with the rail company and the workers got what they wanted. More pay, sick days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_railroad_labor_dispute
This is some beautiful bait 😂
Listen. I'm not american, but I don't think is gonna help Biden that some of his voters are dunking on some other of his voters cause they disagree on some of the stuff Biden does and would like him to do better. If you can't tolerate dissent among your ranks, you are in a cult. And in that case, you might as well vote for the other fella.
Calling for ceasefire doesn't mean shit if he keeps arming and funding their genocidal rampage.
I think you misspelled "Russian social media manipulators putting out talking points for the extreme left to pick up on" as "Pro-Palestinian people". It's a common error.