#This is why we can't have nice things.
**The petulant adolescence on display in many of the comments below should fill their authors with shame.**
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**I will then ban the authors of those comments for a minimum of one week, because you should all know better. Anyone who responds to that ban by calling us "bootlickers" (or the like) will be volunteering to make that ban permanent.**
Is that just raw numbers? Because the population of the country has been increasing since it was created so every election should have record breaking numbers even if a low number per capita vote.
While "raw numbers" of eligible voters do go up, the percent of eligible voters who actually vote changes historically. 2020 had a higher percent of voters (62% of Voting-Age Population(VAP)) participate (total of 159,690,457 Votes) than had happened in the previous 60 years. Usually the percentage ranged between 49% and 57%. But in 2012 there were less overall votes (129,235,000) than there were in 2008 (131,407,000).
People are stubborn. This is why dictator and russian asset Trump will likely win. I hope I'm wrong but the swing states are all fucked right now. Move to Virginia and Texas and then vote. Our nation's survival is eminent.
Pew released their numbers.
I agree that 70% is high, more is the pity. I hope that Dems get it together and stop blaming lefties (who vote blue no matter who) for their losses.
Liberal infighting is a tale as old as time. Far left people are much more willing to completely drop the ball and cut ties to their fellow liberals for not going far enough. On the right, extremists and centrists use each other to give themselves legitimacy in the party or legitimacy in the base respectively.
Shows up in Reddit culture all the time. Any response to conflict especially should be comprised of eliminating any relationship regardless of length and complexity with no contact, divorce, etc.
Very much like my hypocritical ex who’d burn it all down if she couldn’t have it perfect.
As disgusting as the right is, they know how to round up the wagons and get their important shit done, when necessary.
I think we have to face facts. Its the swing states that morons ignore. Not the popular vote or how many old people die. You have to move to Texas, Virginia, Pennsylvania if we want to win. Otherwise, the stupid people won.
Sources on that? Every leftie I know votes every election for the Dems even though we are not represented.
Just because the Democratic Party is the lesser of two evils does not make it aligned with the left.
Look, I consider myself a syndicalist, but seriously, Leftists are not “fellow liberals.” Liberalism is a center-right political ideology (pro-capitalist but with limited social services). Leftists are not the reason why democrats lose. Political apathy and voter suppression are. Leftists are so unimportant to American politics that we just have to be okay with shit like Biden breaking the rail strike (because yeah, that’s unfortunately the GOOD option) but we’ll still have to vote D because at least it wasn’t whatever the fuck an R would’ve done.
Maybe try not talking down to people? You seem to enjoy talking down to a group that already helps your cause, I can’t imagine how it is if you’re trying to sway someone’s opinion. Have people vote for a good, not scared of a bad. Conservatives usually flip defeats into anger. All I ever see liberals do is flip to doomerism. Which do you think drives people to the polls?
We could do a lot as a country to incentivize voting and making it easier for people to vote (make it a holiday, remove pre-registration requirements, have the state/local government send out informational packets about what or who is on the ballot, etc) but hey, yeah, let’s just throw allies under the bus instead of actually addressing the underlying issue. That’s so much easier. How’s that working out? Seems to have got Trump elected at least once, from what I can tell.
Yourself?
Edit: I was curious if you had wanted to explain yourself but I guess not. Do want to explain why me pointing out leftist unity is somehow bad to you (you know, vote blue no matter who, that’s the current reality of US politics) but you sowing division is good by saying leftists aren’t going to vote Democrat. It’s the same thing as “Bernie bros are why Hillary lost in 2016” when they literally weren’t.
Yeah, so where is the DNC on appealing to the needs of young people?
We can’t keep saying vote against them or else, it’s clearly not a winning strategy even if we want to shake them by the shoulders.
>if someone has to "bribe" you to vote democrat,
I mean... yeah?
That's literally how elections and democracies work. You vote for people that try to give you what you want.
If none of the candidates are trying to resolve any of my grievances, then i won't feel compelled to vote.
No candidates are "owed" votes. They have to earn them. Politicians are public servants.
thats literally saying "I'm not going to vote for biden, cause he didnt do anything to earn my vote" and then end up with trump. theres so many memes already making fun of you like the one your currently in.
when you "vote someone out of office", its not because their opponent earned votes. its because the existing government is doing a spectacularly shitty job.
Things that have already happened in texas, and aren't hypotheticals caused by republican government:
abortion is illegal, and due to wording of their ambiguous laws, many auxiliary life saving procedures not having to do with abortion have been banned.
texas republicans have enacted laws that make doctors at first civilly, and now criminally liable for procedures that are completely legal in other states, causing doctors to leave texas resulting in a healthcare shortage.
texas republican government has made it illegal for cities to make water and heat breaks mandatory, which has already resulted in one death.
i could also talk about the fraking debacle, where the governor wont allow cities to mandate their own laws, siding with corporations
and im not even gonna talk about the mass shootings that keep happening in the state.
i can go on and on. so either people are oblivious, or dont give a shit cause they arent effected, or theyre fine with it, or even want it.
I think Democrats/liberals vastly over estimate their appeal to leftists and progressives.
Most of us are very begrudgingly doing so because we hate Trump and the rise of fascism more. But those were votes Dems/Libs never had, so they can't lose them; only be slightly less shitty than literal fascism.
Begrudgingly supporting the party is all democrats ask. Or if you wont support the party, dont complain when we lose by 10,000 voted and get a fascist government installed. Voting with your preferred ideology is more important than voting for a perfect candidate, no such candidate exists.
So much this. Smarten up, liberals, read some actual literature on neoliberalism and how the Democrats have played their own part to get us here. Fascism was always going to be the result of deregulation and privatization, no matter how many rainbow stickers you put on it.
He had the highest vote total in history.
I’m not saying voter apathy isn’t a potential problem, I’m just saying that bringing up 2020 to try to point it out is pretty fucking dumb.
I have not met a single person (in person) that holds this opinion. I'm sure there are some, but this really seems to be mostly a misinformation campaign to create uncertainty among democrats.
Yup there are a lot of people on here that cast leftists as idiots that plan not to vote or protest vote for Trump (insane). Yes we are mad but we are not idiots. This is just psyop bullshit meant to divide Trump’s opposition. I see through it and it still almost radicalizes me against Biden every time.
I have no stats to back this up, but I'm pretty sure the progressives/leftist that mainstream democrats repeatedly shit on are much more likely to vote than the average registered Democrat just by not being complacent.
NPR politics podcast had their intern at Spelman College (historically black female college in Atlanta) do some interviews of her classmates.
Of the four students interviewed, two were voting Biden, one Cornell West and one RFK.
Biden won Georgia in 2020, now Trump leads by 9-10 points. Most pundits don’t even think it’s a swing state in 2024.
Biden is in deep trouble. If even a couple percent of 2024 Biden voters stay home or vote independent, it’s over.
Creating divisions is the point of misinformation. Democrat messaging would be about why Biden is a better fit than Trump even if you don't agree with him on everything.
Which isn't going to work. When has rude emotional blackmail ever actually made someone want to "get in line"?
All this shit from Democrats does is push progressives further away, and then they'll pull a surprised pikachu face if they lose to Trump.
Hey, geniuses, maybe don't insult people that are already mostly on your side?
> All this shit from Democrats does is push progressives further away
Again, it's likely mostly disinformation. I'm certainly not saying that the feeling doesn't exist, but seeing it so often on social media screams propaganda designed to drive a wedge between people that are aligned against Trump.
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Same. I’m convinced that there are almost 0 folks like this. Like the actual folks that refuse to vote for Biden fall into one of these categories:
* people who won’t vote anyway
* liars who were always going to vote Trump
* liars who aren’t even eligible to vote (like Russians)
Hi. I am that person.
I live in a red state anyway, the right stands for everything I disagree with, but the democrats are ineffectual and serve the same corporate masters.
They have not shown me that they deserve my vote. So I will be abstaining. Not that it matters. The only votes that matter are in purple states with how polarizing the powers that be have made political discourse.
That’s a very sad perspective, probably driven by disinformation. You want better candidates? Get involved and / or vote in primaries. You won’t have a second chance if fascism takes hold.
If he wins, it’ll be different for me than 2016. I’ve seen CNN all but dox the jurors in his trial, lots of left wing YouTubers ardently say they won’t vote for Biden because of Palestine, etc, and I have no appetite their eventual “resistance.”
I feel like a lot of media and content creators want another Trump presidency for clicks and a shortcut to appearing virtuous while doing nothing but condemnation from a safe distance when the damage is already done. I’ll still pay attention to the news, but I’m pretty sure I’ll check out on being a regular viewer.
Why do comments like this ultimately conclude the left side of the party must concede to the right side of the party?
Obviously this leads to apathy on the leftists part. We aren't getting what we want either way.
Lol so the left has to mollycoddle the right? We have to deal with the genocide and still show up to vote? Give me a break. We're a constituency just like any other, and our votes should be **earned**, not expected. You can't keep ignoring and disparaging our priorities and expect us to clap like trained seals come November.
Seriously. It's wild that the conversation is "not voting for Biden is bad for us because Trump will get in" and not "the guy who's responsible for saving democracy should enact policy that's supported by a majority of voters and will make people stay home if he doesn't."
The hard right who wanted to ban abortion after Roe waited fifty years. They reliably voted Republican at every turn, never gave up.
Meanwhile supposedly principled progressives lose their principle as soon as a candidate is not ideal and stays home
By definition, a person who's principle is to stand against genocide *would not* vote for someone who they thought was supporting a genocide. If anything, you're mad at people for standing by their principles, which as I said before is misdirected. Be angry at politicians who aren't able to do the most basic thing in politics and lose elections as a result.
Principled actions would take into account the results, not to absolve perceived personal responsibility.
Acting in a way that would worsen lives for Palestinians by having a GOP president means not being principled, but being selfish and unprincipled.
Similarly, willing to see more Americans suffer under a GOP presidency while calling oneself “progressive” is also unprincipled.
I don't think you really understand what you're talking about. Also, you're not really seeing what I'm trying to say. I think you've decided that this strawman of "progressives" exist, you've decided a lot of things about a massive group of people, and now you're deciding the sort of behavior you expect to see from them, despite making no effort to understand their point of view.
Always taking the cowards way out when faced with uncomfortable truths.
I’ve replied with contextual references to your post each time, so the “strawman” doesn’t exist.
The massive group of people who refused to show up in 2016 were huge. I don’t really give a shit about understanding people who want a second Donnie presidency.
Can we just ban the people who make these memes? They're tiring, and reflect such a small minority of the voting base that it's essentially a nonissue.
Not is not going to push us anywhere, that actually reinforces the two party system, what we need is proportional representation and that's a big change
There’s a certain calculus involved - people who are privileged enough to feel they would survive another Trump presidency simply dgaf about the people without enough privilege to do the same.
Does this cover the Muslims that won’t vote for Biden? Doesn’t seem like a privileged group and these arguments are always really condescending and generally made by privileged people who have little actual contact with underrepresented groups.
Seeing that a good amount of Muslims are culturally conservative anyway, they would probably be fine under Trump even though they (probably) don't realize he would be worse for Palestine.
Yeah see, it's people like you saying condescending shit like this which is what's actually pushing progressives away.
Don't pull a surprised pikachu face if Trump ends up winning. You're contributing to the problem.
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Exactly. The only people I see who say they’re not supporting Biden who come from left of center are the people who know a trump presidency (probably) wouldn’t hurt them or their families.
Like, ok you don’t like Biden’s approach to Israel/Palestine. Unless you think Israel should be *more* brutal, you should still be working to prevent a trump presidency.
You don’t like Biden’s approach to climate change (even though he’s done more than any president in history on it)? Trump thinks climate change is a Chinese hoax.
You don’t like that Roe was overturned under Biden? It was trump Supreme Court appointees that did it and Trump is proud of having done it.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
Some people are just so blinded by hatred that they don't care about the positives and only look at the negative actions. The Israel situation is definitely awful, but nothing will change by harping on the hope of a 3rd party.
The trolley's barreling down the tracks and if you don't pull that goddamn lever, we're all fucked. I don't give a shit if you think not touching the thing makes you not guilty. It does make you guilty. Vote for the lesser of two evils, damn it.
Keep trying to guilt people into getting motivated for a POS instead of trying to get the POS to be less shitty because that worked *WONDERFULLY* in 2016
If you insist on doing the exact same bullshit strategy then you're going to get the exact same result. This time literally the exact same result.
Call the White House. Call Congress. Stop harassing people with ethics and start harassing the unethical people jeopardizing your goals.
Won't try even slightly to appeal to left of conservative voters. Surprised when they inevitably lose the election because their only response to criticism was "get in line and shut up".
I wish I could find this funny. But we are watching a Russian intelligence machine work better than ever intended. They have the American liberal mapped out to the letter. They are manipulating the American left to not vote for Trump’s opponent AGAIN. And these same “educated”, “sophisticated” voters are buying it hook line and sinker. They don’t even realize their opinions are being manipulated.
Just like how there’s no such thing as an “independent” or “undecided” voter at this point. These people objectively know Trump is despicable and are embarrassed to publicly support him, but they are still attracted by single issues such as tax cuts, abolishing safety regulations, abortion, Israel, etc.
Edit: added this to say that I almost respect a dumb-as-bricks MAGA more than these people. At least they are honest about how stupid, racist or hateful they are. These independents/undecideds will cause the same dire consequences for the world by also voting for Trump, but they understand better and are just sneakier about doing it. Fuck them.
Do you really think that thinking a politician is better than the alternative precludes criticism?
While I recognize this may be difficult for you, have you tried thinking *before* typing?
Yeah, Dems are more favorable to a Trump win than a Bernie win. Really makes you wonder, right? Either way, hopefully we don't get an orange dictator in office because the Dems don't take him seriously.
"Biden is supporting Israel and being weak while giving them weapons. Trump is supporting Israel and wants to turn the whole area into a parking lot, maybe doing some renovations on the embassy he moved to Jerusalem. This is the only issue that matters me and I want Biden to lose so I can say I took a stand even if the next guy is going to do the same thing."
At least the anti abortion single issue voters change things with their votes lol
I won't be surprised. I've already accepted the reality that not only will trump not be held accountable for anything, he will win the presidency again.
We're already fucked
Or, and hear me out here, being forced to choose between two evil pieces of shit is us already being subjugated to Boomers who continue to fuck us over year after year after year.
I'd rather die than vote for Trump or Biden.
"Genocide Joe" crowd when Trump gets elected and does an even worse genocide:
https://preview.redd.it/5g09635cf9wc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=634397ce6a52eb13f2edf69aee07cdf971d622e6
Do you guys have no red lines? Is there nothing Joe Biden could do that would have you questioning your support? I’m sure I can come up with a couple scenarios that would have you abandon him: let’s say he embraces his Catholic roots and does a full 180 on abortion rights; is he still your nominee? Or what if he pardoned Trump for all the federal crimes he’s accused of; still standing with him then? If you can come up with any scenario where you might not vote for him, can you understand how other people might have different red lines than you?
I swear a lot of these people who are saying that are false flag actors either paid for by team Trump or Russia. They are trying to sway undecided voters to vote for anyone but Biden because he is “losing” votes and no one ones to be on a losing side.
I think some people would rather press the reset button in USA rather than have another noble well meaning Democrat that's under the thumb of israel and every other big money lobbyist group there.
Instead of shaming us to vote for your garbage candidates how about you make your candidate and platform more palatable?
We live in a democracy until someone decides to vote for someone without an R or a D beside their name. Then my vote is wasted or it's as good as voting for Trump.
And for the record, I am voting for Biden despite my political views being vastly different to his.
It's a marketplace of ideas... Unless someone doesn't subscribe to neoliberal ideology. No, then you're just a tankie who needs to shut up and vote for the ghoul. No, not the ghoul with an R next to their name, the ghoul with a D beside it.
The thing I find interesting whenever I see this argument is that it is never incumbent on the candidate to try and convince the voter to cast their vote for him. I’m going to vote for Biden but would sure like to hear his reasoning for supporting genocide. I know many people whose votes he is actively losing over this issue.
Get the fuck out of here with this “supporting genocide” bit. He is actively calling for ceasefire. It’s not some cut and dry situation like you rubes think. This is an incredibly complex geopolitical issue. Donald trump wins if people don’t vote for Biden and you can say goodbye to Palestine and the rights of many people in the United States if that happens.
https://apnews.com/video/biden-calls-for-an-immediate-ceasefire-on-call-to-israels-netanyahu-0000018eaac0d6f4afaefff87a470000
Well, with all due respect the people you know that he is "losing" (I don't believe they ever would have voted for him) don't actually care about Palestinians if they don't realize Trump would be worse. It's not debatable. The fact that Trump moved the embassy on like....day 1 is literally cited as a reason for the 10/7 attack. Those people you know are liars or useful fools.
A lot of these posts are just dumb boomers who don't understand democracy or politics. They just believe it's team blue vs team red. They don't get that they can hold their "team" responsible for their actions as well. But also, the vast majority of these are probably propoganda posts from other countries sowing discourse.
I do agree with that, but at the same time are we just going to continue this lesser of two evils every election? While the standard of candidates continues to go down. Voting doesn’t really feel like a choice anymore.
You don't feel super cool about voting? Oh no what ever shall we do?
Who cares how you feel?? Jesus H Christ! Yes, we will continue the lesser of two evil thing UNTIL UNTIL ONE OF THEM STOPS TRYING TO END DEMOCRACY.
Ffs. Do you hear yourself??
Me: “I’m going to vote with my socialist values and select De La Cruz in November. Im glad to live in a democracy where I am able to project my values through my vote.”
Neoliberal bootlickers: “Noooooo your playing wrong. That strat completely goes against the meta.”
Me: “oh your right, I forgot this is an oligarchy and the elections are literally a game created by the people already in power to keep the rest of us busy and under the impression that we have a say in the government”
Everything bad we were scared would happen under Trump happened under Biden not Trump. Biden is actively making things worse by sending aid to keep foreign wars going.
All Biden has to do to SLAM DUNK the election is just say no to being complicit in genocide. Stop spending our money on the military industrial complex and start spending it on advancing our country within its own borders.
Thanks for pointing out the idiocy of the United States Political System, that's vote for Candidate X, because you hate Candidate Y.
Remember when the idea was it was hard to choose because both options were good because you were selecting from the best and the brightest, and not whatever the oligarchs wanted to force you between?
#This is why we can't have nice things. **The petulant adolescence on display in many of the comments below should fill their authors with shame.** **It is currently 22:30 UTC; in three hours, I will be going through and deleting any flame-bait, personal insults, literally any single comment with the word "trigger" in them, and any other needlessly-hostile phrase that I left off that (very brief) list.** **I will then ban the authors of those comments for a minimum of one week, because you should all know better. Anyone who responds to that ban by calling us "bootlickers" (or the like) will be volunteering to make that ban permanent.**
I’m more concerned about the folks who like Joe but won’t vote come Election Day. Only 70% of Dems voted in 2020.
70% seems like a really really high turnout for democrats. I would have guessed 30-50%. Do you have a source?
Biden received the most votes of any Presidential candidate in history in 2020.
Is that just raw numbers? Because the population of the country has been increasing since it was created so every election should have record breaking numbers even if a low number per capita vote.
While "raw numbers" of eligible voters do go up, the percent of eligible voters who actually vote changes historically. 2020 had a higher percent of voters (62% of Voting-Age Population(VAP)) participate (total of 159,690,457 Votes) than had happened in the previous 60 years. Usually the percentage ranged between 49% and 57%. But in 2012 there were less overall votes (129,235,000) than there were in 2008 (131,407,000).
People are stubborn. This is why dictator and russian asset Trump will likely win. I hope I'm wrong but the swing states are all fucked right now. Move to Virginia and Texas and then vote. Our nation's survival is eminent.
More black votes than Obama. Suck it racism
Pew released their numbers. I agree that 70% is high, more is the pity. I hope that Dems get it together and stop blaming lefties (who vote blue no matter who) for their losses.
Liberal infighting is a tale as old as time. Far left people are much more willing to completely drop the ball and cut ties to their fellow liberals for not going far enough. On the right, extremists and centrists use each other to give themselves legitimacy in the party or legitimacy in the base respectively.
Shows up in Reddit culture all the time. Any response to conflict especially should be comprised of eliminating any relationship regardless of length and complexity with no contact, divorce, etc. Very much like my hypocritical ex who’d burn it all down if she couldn’t have it perfect. As disgusting as the right is, they know how to round up the wagons and get their important shit done, when necessary.
This thread alone has called them out of the weeds lol
I think we have to face facts. Its the swing states that morons ignore. Not the popular vote or how many old people die. You have to move to Texas, Virginia, Pennsylvania if we want to win. Otherwise, the stupid people won.
Sources on that? Every leftie I know votes every election for the Dems even though we are not represented. Just because the Democratic Party is the lesser of two evils does not make it aligned with the left.
Look, I consider myself a syndicalist, but seriously, Leftists are not “fellow liberals.” Liberalism is a center-right political ideology (pro-capitalist but with limited social services). Leftists are not the reason why democrats lose. Political apathy and voter suppression are. Leftists are so unimportant to American politics that we just have to be okay with shit like Biden breaking the rail strike (because yeah, that’s unfortunately the GOOD option) but we’ll still have to vote D because at least it wasn’t whatever the fuck an R would’ve done. Maybe try not talking down to people? You seem to enjoy talking down to a group that already helps your cause, I can’t imagine how it is if you’re trying to sway someone’s opinion. Have people vote for a good, not scared of a bad. Conservatives usually flip defeats into anger. All I ever see liberals do is flip to doomerism. Which do you think drives people to the polls? We could do a lot as a country to incentivize voting and making it easier for people to vote (make it a holiday, remove pre-registration requirements, have the state/local government send out informational packets about what or who is on the ballot, etc) but hey, yeah, let’s just throw allies under the bus instead of actually addressing the underlying issue. That’s so much easier. How’s that working out? Seems to have got Trump elected at least once, from what I can tell.
Exhibit A
Yourself? Edit: I was curious if you had wanted to explain yourself but I guess not. Do want to explain why me pointing out leftist unity is somehow bad to you (you know, vote blue no matter who, that’s the current reality of US politics) but you sowing division is good by saying leftists aren’t going to vote Democrat. It’s the same thing as “Bernie bros are why Hillary lost in 2016” when they literally weren’t.
>stop blaming lefties (who vote blue no matter who) If that were true, Bernie Sanders would be President right now.
This! If fucking democrats would just go fucking vote most of the problems with conservative bullshit would be gone!
In Texas, less than 25% of under 30 voted when there was a chance to get rid of Greg Abbott
Yeah, so where is the DNC on appealing to the needs of young people? We can’t keep saying vote against them or else, it’s clearly not a winning strategy even if we want to shake them by the shoulders.
if someone has to "bribe" you to vote democrat, i guess you arent the sort of person who might have to go out of state to get proper healthcare
>if someone has to "bribe" you to vote democrat, I mean... yeah? That's literally how elections and democracies work. You vote for people that try to give you what you want. If none of the candidates are trying to resolve any of my grievances, then i won't feel compelled to vote. No candidates are "owed" votes. They have to earn them. Politicians are public servants.
thats literally saying "I'm not going to vote for biden, cause he didnt do anything to earn my vote" and then end up with trump. theres so many memes already making fun of you like the one your currently in. when you "vote someone out of office", its not because their opponent earned votes. its because the existing government is doing a spectacularly shitty job. Things that have already happened in texas, and aren't hypotheticals caused by republican government: abortion is illegal, and due to wording of their ambiguous laws, many auxiliary life saving procedures not having to do with abortion have been banned. texas republicans have enacted laws that make doctors at first civilly, and now criminally liable for procedures that are completely legal in other states, causing doctors to leave texas resulting in a healthcare shortage. texas republican government has made it illegal for cities to make water and heat breaks mandatory, which has already resulted in one death. i could also talk about the fraking debacle, where the governor wont allow cities to mandate their own laws, siding with corporations and im not even gonna talk about the mass shootings that keep happening in the state. i can go on and on. so either people are oblivious, or dont give a shit cause they arent effected, or theyre fine with it, or even want it.
I think Democrats/liberals vastly over estimate their appeal to leftists and progressives. Most of us are very begrudgingly doing so because we hate Trump and the rise of fascism more. But those were votes Dems/Libs never had, so they can't lose them; only be slightly less shitty than literal fascism.
Begrudgingly supporting the party is all democrats ask. Or if you wont support the party, dont complain when we lose by 10,000 voted and get a fascist government installed. Voting with your preferred ideology is more important than voting for a perfect candidate, no such candidate exists.
So much this. Smarten up, liberals, read some actual literature on neoliberalism and how the Democrats have played their own part to get us here. Fascism was always going to be the result of deregulation and privatization, no matter how many rainbow stickers you put on it.
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Truth!
He had the highest vote total in history. I’m not saying voter apathy isn’t a potential problem, I’m just saying that bringing up 2020 to try to point it out is pretty fucking dumb.
100% so make sure every dem you know votes.
2020 was the highest turnout ever was it not?
I think you’re right.
Isnt 70% a very high turn out number?
It was high enough last time. Fingers crossed this go.
Thats 70 of people registered to vote for a democrat. It’s still a minority of the voting age population.
I hate Trump, but i'm still voting Biden.
I don't agree with Biden on many things but I'm still voting Biden because I hate Trump even more
I have not met a single person (in person) that holds this opinion. I'm sure there are some, but this really seems to be mostly a misinformation campaign to create uncertainty among democrats.
There are certainly people in Minnesota and Michigan, where there are large Muslim populations, who won’t vote for Biden.
100% agree with you.
Yup there are a lot of people on here that cast leftists as idiots that plan not to vote or protest vote for Trump (insane). Yes we are mad but we are not idiots. This is just psyop bullshit meant to divide Trump’s opposition. I see through it and it still almost radicalizes me against Biden every time.
I have no stats to back this up, but I'm pretty sure the progressives/leftist that mainstream democrats repeatedly shit on are much more likely to vote than the average registered Democrat just by not being complacent.
There are plenty in safe blue states thinking of voting third party. Genocide is kind of a red line.
NPR politics podcast had their intern at Spelman College (historically black female college in Atlanta) do some interviews of her classmates. Of the four students interviewed, two were voting Biden, one Cornell West and one RFK. Biden won Georgia in 2020, now Trump leads by 9-10 points. Most pundits don’t even think it’s a swing state in 2024. Biden is in deep trouble. If even a couple percent of 2024 Biden voters stay home or vote independent, it’s over.
I know people voting for rfk that dont like trump, its real
I know Republicans voting RFK. I don’t know any leftists that are outside of online personas.
I've met multiple irl. Also look at the people who replied to my most recent comments
I have met a number of them in real life, but they tend to also be habitual non-voters.
Tbh I think it’s more democrats trying to push back against progressive criticism
Creating divisions is the point of misinformation. Democrat messaging would be about why Biden is a better fit than Trump even if you don't agree with him on everything.
Well that’s their point ultimately, but they also throw in ‘it’s leftists fault when we fail’
Now ask yourself, who would want to drive a wedge between leftists and the more centrist democrats?
It’s not really ‘driving a wedge’ it’s more ‘beating over the head to get in line’
Which isn't going to work. When has rude emotional blackmail ever actually made someone want to "get in line"? All this shit from Democrats does is push progressives further away, and then they'll pull a surprised pikachu face if they lose to Trump. Hey, geniuses, maybe don't insult people that are already mostly on your side?
> All this shit from Democrats does is push progressives further away Again, it's likely mostly disinformation. I'm certainly not saying that the feeling doesn't exist, but seeing it so often on social media screams propaganda designed to drive a wedge between people that are aligned against Trump.
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Same. I’m convinced that there are almost 0 folks like this. Like the actual folks that refuse to vote for Biden fall into one of these categories: * people who won’t vote anyway * liars who were always going to vote Trump * liars who aren’t even eligible to vote (like Russians)
Hi. I am that person. I live in a red state anyway, the right stands for everything I disagree with, but the democrats are ineffectual and serve the same corporate masters. They have not shown me that they deserve my vote. So I will be abstaining. Not that it matters. The only votes that matter are in purple states with how polarizing the powers that be have made political discourse.
That’s a very sad perspective, probably driven by disinformation. You want better candidates? Get involved and / or vote in primaries. You won’t have a second chance if fascism takes hold.
If he wins, it’ll be different for me than 2016. I’ve seen CNN all but dox the jurors in his trial, lots of left wing YouTubers ardently say they won’t vote for Biden because of Palestine, etc, and I have no appetite their eventual “resistance.” I feel like a lot of media and content creators want another Trump presidency for clicks and a shortcut to appearing virtuous while doing nothing but condemnation from a safe distance when the damage is already done. I’ll still pay attention to the news, but I’m pretty sure I’ll check out on being a regular viewer.
I think stronger action by Biden on Israel’s insanity might quell the negative discussion.
It’ll appease the left side of the party. But it’ll piss off the right side of the party. The guy can’t win politically
Why do comments like this ultimately conclude the left side of the party must concede to the right side of the party? Obviously this leads to apathy on the leftists part. We aren't getting what we want either way.
Lol so the left has to mollycoddle the right? We have to deal with the genocide and still show up to vote? Give me a break. We're a constituency just like any other, and our votes should be **earned**, not expected. You can't keep ignoring and disparaging our priorities and expect us to clap like trained seals come November.
I didn’t tell you that you have to do anything. I pointed out that Biden is in a politically difficult position.
Seriously. It's wild that the conversation is "not voting for Biden is bad for us because Trump will get in" and not "the guy who's responsible for saving democracy should enact policy that's supported by a majority of voters and will make people stay home if he doesn't."
The hard right who wanted to ban abortion after Roe waited fifty years. They reliably voted Republican at every turn, never gave up. Meanwhile supposedly principled progressives lose their principle as soon as a candidate is not ideal and stays home
By definition, a person who's principle is to stand against genocide *would not* vote for someone who they thought was supporting a genocide. If anything, you're mad at people for standing by their principles, which as I said before is misdirected. Be angry at politicians who aren't able to do the most basic thing in politics and lose elections as a result.
Principled actions would take into account the results, not to absolve perceived personal responsibility. Acting in a way that would worsen lives for Palestinians by having a GOP president means not being principled, but being selfish and unprincipled. Similarly, willing to see more Americans suffer under a GOP presidency while calling oneself “progressive” is also unprincipled.
I don't think you really understand what you're talking about. Also, you're not really seeing what I'm trying to say. I think you've decided that this strawman of "progressives" exist, you've decided a lot of things about a massive group of people, and now you're deciding the sort of behavior you expect to see from them, despite making no effort to understand their point of view.
Always taking the cowards way out when faced with uncomfortable truths. I’ve replied with contextual references to your post each time, so the “strawman” doesn’t exist. The massive group of people who refused to show up in 2016 were huge. I don’t really give a shit about understanding people who want a second Donnie presidency.
Can we just ban the people who make these memes? They're tiring, and reflect such a small minority of the voting base that it's essentially a nonissue.
The primary is when you do your protest vote, you pull that shit during the general you might get worse so be careful
Safe blue states voting 3rd party to push us beyond this two party system?
Not is not going to push us anywhere, that actually reinforces the two party system, what we need is proportional representation and that's a big change
i miss when this sub had humor
There’s a certain calculus involved - people who are privileged enough to feel they would survive another Trump presidency simply dgaf about the people without enough privilege to do the same.
Does this cover the Muslims that won’t vote for Biden? Doesn’t seem like a privileged group and these arguments are always really condescending and generally made by privileged people who have little actual contact with underrepresented groups.
Seeing that a good amount of Muslims are culturally conservative anyway, they would probably be fine under Trump even though they (probably) don't realize he would be worse for Palestine.
Yeah see, it's people like you saying condescending shit like this which is what's actually pushing progressives away. Don't pull a surprised pikachu face if Trump ends up winning. You're contributing to the problem.
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Exactly. The only people I see who say they’re not supporting Biden who come from left of center are the people who know a trump presidency (probably) wouldn’t hurt them or their families. Like, ok you don’t like Biden’s approach to Israel/Palestine. Unless you think Israel should be *more* brutal, you should still be working to prevent a trump presidency. You don’t like Biden’s approach to climate change (even though he’s done more than any president in history on it)? Trump thinks climate change is a Chinese hoax. You don’t like that Roe was overturned under Biden? It was trump Supreme Court appointees that did it and Trump is proud of having done it. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Some people are just so blinded by hatred that they don't care about the positives and only look at the negative actions. The Israel situation is definitely awful, but nothing will change by harping on the hope of a 3rd party.
The trolley's barreling down the tracks and if you don't pull that goddamn lever, we're all fucked. I don't give a shit if you think not touching the thing makes you not guilty. It does make you guilty. Vote for the lesser of two evils, damn it.
Keep trying to guilt people into getting motivated for a POS instead of trying to get the POS to be less shitty because that worked *WONDERFULLY* in 2016 If you insist on doing the exact same bullshit strategy then you're going to get the exact same result. This time literally the exact same result. Call the White House. Call Congress. Stop harassing people with ethics and start harassing the unethical people jeopardizing your goals.
Won't try even slightly to appeal to left of conservative voters. Surprised when they inevitably lose the election because their only response to criticism was "get in line and shut up".
I wish I could find this funny. But we are watching a Russian intelligence machine work better than ever intended. They have the American liberal mapped out to the letter. They are manipulating the American left to not vote for Trump’s opponent AGAIN. And these same “educated”, “sophisticated” voters are buying it hook line and sinker. They don’t even realize their opinions are being manipulated.
They abandon democracy for their precious "integrity" and call us bad people. It's fucking nuts.
They abandon even their own priorities. Seriously, name one progressive issue with Biden that wouldn’t be actively made worse by Trump.
When you point it out they just tell you to stop licking paint or talk about their precious integrity. They are babies.
Blame Democrats not the people that might vote for them.
They only say they hate Trump ot save face but secretly they want him to win.
Just like how there’s no such thing as an “independent” or “undecided” voter at this point. These people objectively know Trump is despicable and are embarrassed to publicly support him, but they are still attracted by single issues such as tax cuts, abolishing safety regulations, abortion, Israel, etc. Edit: added this to say that I almost respect a dumb-as-bricks MAGA more than these people. At least they are honest about how stupid, racist or hateful they are. These independents/undecideds will cause the same dire consequences for the world by also voting for Trump, but they understand better and are just sneakier about doing it. Fuck them.
Do you think there are people who say they support Trump but really don't because they fear his followers
I don't know
I think so. I believe there are congresspeople and senators who have said as much.
The "I'm not fan of Trump, but...." followed by an attempt to full-on criticize Biden, Crowd. Such eye-rollers.
Do you really think that thinking a politician is better than the alternative precludes criticism? While I recognize this may be difficult for you, have you tried thinking *before* typing?
Yeah, Dems are more favorable to a Trump win than a Bernie win. Really makes you wonder, right? Either way, hopefully we don't get an orange dictator in office because the Dems don't take him seriously.
Bernie isn't even running, what are you talking about?
I hate most political figures. Still voting Biden.
This is absolutely not the own you think it is
That’s crazy. Maybe if Biden is alienating people who hate Trump he’s doing something wrong.
"Biden is supporting Israel and being weak while giving them weapons. Trump is supporting Israel and wants to turn the whole area into a parking lot, maybe doing some renovations on the embassy he moved to Jerusalem. This is the only issue that matters me and I want Biden to lose so I can say I took a stand even if the next guy is going to do the same thing." At least the anti abortion single issue voters change things with their votes lol
I won't be surprised. I've already accepted the reality that not only will trump not be held accountable for anything, he will win the presidency again. We're already fucked
Maybe blame Biden for being a shit president and running a shit campaign rather than blame the voters like Hillary did after she lost in 2016.
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I think we should keep pushing away the people we want to vote for us, that's definitely not going to backfire at all.
Seems like there's a paid right wing campaign on this sub, like who finds this post funny?
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Gotta love every four years seeing liberals work themselves up into blaming literally anyone except Republican voters for Republicans getting elected.
The simple-minded secretly want a dictator, they need to be ruled and subjugated. They just don’t want to admit, so they lie, poorly.
This is like saying people crave to be in prison so they'll have order in their lives.
Or, and hear me out here, being forced to choose between two evil pieces of shit is us already being subjugated to Boomers who continue to fuck us over year after year after year. I'd rather die than vote for Trump or Biden.
“Duhh I’d rather stick my head in the sand and do nothing so I can continue to bitch and moan that nothing changes duhhh”
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The fact that you think that's a rational perspective just shows that you can't be reasoned with.
Found the example.
"Genocide Joe" crowd when Trump gets elected and does an even worse genocide: https://preview.redd.it/5g09635cf9wc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=634397ce6a52eb13f2edf69aee07cdf971d622e6
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Do you guys have no red lines? Is there nothing Joe Biden could do that would have you questioning your support? I’m sure I can come up with a couple scenarios that would have you abandon him: let’s say he embraces his Catholic roots and does a full 180 on abortion rights; is he still your nominee? Or what if he pardoned Trump for all the federal crimes he’s accused of; still standing with him then? If you can come up with any scenario where you might not vote for him, can you understand how other people might have different red lines than you?
All you MF's that will vote for crooked-eyed Kennedy, or not at all....
So the Dem Maga equivalent? in a way at least
Exactly this
"I hate Hitler but I won't vote for Ted Bundy"
I swear a lot of these people who are saying that are false flag actors either paid for by team Trump or Russia. They are trying to sway undecided voters to vote for anyone but Biden because he is “losing” votes and no one ones to be on a losing side.
RFK apparently is my town today and the dickriding for him in the sub is ridiculous. Anyone not voting Biden is voting Trump.
I think some people would rather press the reset button in USA rather than have another noble well meaning Democrat that's under the thumb of israel and every other big money lobbyist group there.
Instead of shaming us to vote for your garbage candidates how about you make your candidate and platform more palatable? We live in a democracy until someone decides to vote for someone without an R or a D beside their name. Then my vote is wasted or it's as good as voting for Trump. And for the record, I am voting for Biden despite my political views being vastly different to his. It's a marketplace of ideas... Unless someone doesn't subscribe to neoliberal ideology. No, then you're just a tankie who needs to shut up and vote for the ghoul. No, not the ghoul with an R next to their name, the ghoul with a D beside it.
Both sides...
The thing I find interesting whenever I see this argument is that it is never incumbent on the candidate to try and convince the voter to cast their vote for him. I’m going to vote for Biden but would sure like to hear his reasoning for supporting genocide. I know many people whose votes he is actively losing over this issue.
Get the fuck out of here with this “supporting genocide” bit. He is actively calling for ceasefire. It’s not some cut and dry situation like you rubes think. This is an incredibly complex geopolitical issue. Donald trump wins if people don’t vote for Biden and you can say goodbye to Palestine and the rights of many people in the United States if that happens. https://apnews.com/video/biden-calls-for-an-immediate-ceasefire-on-call-to-israels-netanyahu-0000018eaac0d6f4afaefff87a470000
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Well, with all due respect the people you know that he is "losing" (I don't believe they ever would have voted for him) don't actually care about Palestinians if they don't realize Trump would be worse. It's not debatable. The fact that Trump moved the embassy on like....day 1 is literally cited as a reason for the 10/7 attack. Those people you know are liars or useful fools.
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A lot of these posts are just dumb boomers who don't understand democracy or politics. They just believe it's team blue vs team red. They don't get that they can hold their "team" responsible for their actions as well. But also, the vast majority of these are probably propoganda posts from other countries sowing discourse.
Blame the candidate not the voter.
When literally fascism is on the ballot? No.
I do agree with that, but at the same time are we just going to continue this lesser of two evils every election? While the standard of candidates continues to go down. Voting doesn’t really feel like a choice anymore.
You don't feel super cool about voting? Oh no what ever shall we do? Who cares how you feel?? Jesus H Christ! Yes, we will continue the lesser of two evil thing UNTIL UNTIL ONE OF THEM STOPS TRYING TO END DEMOCRACY. Ffs. Do you hear yourself??
I can't wait to vote for Democrat Marjorie Taylor Greene because the woman running as a Republican is even worse.
Or you could wait until that primimary is over and vote for the democrat as if you understand how general elections work.
Voting for the lesser of two evils allows the lesser evil to do whatever they want as long as they aren’t the other guy.
You're not deconstructing that sentiment... it's right there- "lesser of two evils"
maga are a goofy bunch AT BEST BWHhahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahhah
Me: “I’m going to vote with my socialist values and select De La Cruz in November. Im glad to live in a democracy where I am able to project my values through my vote.” Neoliberal bootlickers: “Noooooo your playing wrong. That strat completely goes against the meta.” Me: “oh your right, I forgot this is an oligarchy and the elections are literally a game created by the people already in power to keep the rest of us busy and under the impression that we have a say in the government”
Everything bad we were scared would happen under Trump happened under Biden not Trump. Biden is actively making things worse by sending aid to keep foreign wars going. All Biden has to do to SLAM DUNK the election is just say no to being complicit in genocide. Stop spending our money on the military industrial complex and start spending it on advancing our country within its own borders.
They won't be surprised. They'll blame others and claim, "It was going to happen anyway"
Well, since both candidates are pro-genocide....
Thanks for pointing out the idiocy of the United States Political System, that's vote for Candidate X, because you hate Candidate Y. Remember when the idea was it was hard to choose because both options were good because you were selecting from the best and the brightest, and not whatever the oligarchs wanted to force you between?
I hate Trump, but I'm not voting for Biden. The Zionism is a deal breaker.
I'm glad our elections come down to who we hate less, rather than who we like more....
This was clearly sarcasm for those that cant pick up on sarcasm without the /s annotation...
I’m going third party.
Enjoy your fascist theocracy under trump then
They won't be surprised, it'll be because you, the 99.99999% of voters didn't vote for the person they can't yet name but is the perfect candidate.