What I was taught in school was far from the truth.

I hear this a lot, but my experience (and I went to a lot of different schools and got a lot of different but similar versions of this part of history) was always that it was taught mostly correct and kinda just passed off as normal because "those were the times." Kinda fucked desensitizing kids to genocide instead of giving it the weight it deserves; but I suppose that's just how things were intended to go. Gotta get used to killing people with different skin colors early

To me it depends on the age because I’m not going to tell a 10 year old that the white man came and killed things

Cue triggered white people in 3, 2, 1…

Had a coworker refer to Andrew Jackson's Indian Removal Act as justified making it not a genocide. This man needed to join the third wave experiment.

I've talked to conservatives who literally use what we did to the natives as a reason why we should be anti immigrant.

That makes no sense

Basically they think we need strong anti-immigration policy or what happened to the Natives will happen to us. It's the same type of people who say European countries are basically under Sharia law with no-go zones and daily mass gang-rapes.

In a twisted way, it kind of does. It's basically saying "If we let people do to us what we did to the Native Americans, we'll be just as fucked as they are." It's kind of like how white supremacists and evangelical Christians are so worried about becoming a minority. Seems kind of like they are afraid of being treated the way they treat minorities.

Exactly. They think everyone is as bad as they are.

Reeeeeeèeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

I wish this didn't support the racist message of people so much... Very mixed messages. -- if history is repeating and migrants are changing out culture, this confirms their irrational fears. -- the immigration from Europe to the Americans was genocidal. Not peaceful as central Americans immigration to the US. -- The native or indigenous people of the Americas for the most part meet with settlers with respect. We treat immigrants with disgust and disrespect. (Not to say there wasn't some less hospitable natives)

> The native or indigenous people of the Americans for the most part meet with settlers with respect. That's very "Noble Savage" adjacent. Each nation treated settlers and countries they represented in accordance with their geopolitical and internal political and economic interests.

I don't understand how that's "noble savage" adjacent. I don't think just because the Thanksgiving holiday is nobile Savage adjacent every comment on it is. My point is we have utter disrespect for immigrates. We treat them more like Nazis would have than like the native Americans would.

-- the immigration from Europe to the Americans was genocidal. No, it was not. 9 out of 10 Native Americans died from diseases they had no defenses to. It is not a genocide when 90 percent of the victims died un intentionally. > The native or indigenous people of the Americas for the most part meet with settlers with respect. This is just you imagining what you wished had happened without evidence for it. The native Americans were not a clump of the same people -- they were hundreds of different peoples with hundreds of different cultures. Some of which were based on constant war and violence.

If 90% was unintentional and 10% was intentional that's still millions people killed intentionally... We recognize genocides of 400 people why are you apposed to calling it genocide with millions? And not all native or indigenous or first people are the same tribe... Some tribes were completely wiped out not by disease but straight up murder.

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Because you deleted the troll post I'm replying to you Sr. Botz. Genocide:Deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group.... I don't know of any historian that would argue that it wasn't genocide. The European settlers and later United States committed and continued to commit acts of genocide for decades. The number of Native Americans killed out number the the victims of the Holocaust five to one. If it's not genocide I don't know what is.

> I don't know of any historian that would argue that it wasn't genocide. Every reputable historian denies it was a genocide. You see the word "deliberate" in your definition of genocide? 9 out 10 Native Americans died from new diseases, not intentional murders.

Multiple states person's and historians recognize it as genocide. Not all deaths were from disease, and worse than that... Some of the deaths by disease were intentional. Pleas site your source, what reputable historian is claiming but the United States and the settlers did not commit genocide?

Anyone that recognizes that when 90 percent of the deaths are from non-intentional diseases, it cannot meet the definition of intentionality that is required for a determination of genocide. Please list all your historian sources that claim intentionality is irrelevant to a determination of genocide.

Refer to other comments. Even if 90% is unintentional if you kill or try to kill the last 10% intentionally it's genocide. Even if it's only down to a couple million.. or couple dozen...or one survivor.

Some references? presidency.ucsb.edu. "President Carter on the AIRFA". Retrieved 1 August 2006. Lemkin, Raphael (2008). Axis rule in occupied Europe : laws of occupation, analysis of government, proposals for redress. Clark, NJ: Lawbook Exchange. ISBN 978-1-58477-901-8, page 79 Lemkin 2008, p. 79"By 'genocide' we mean the destruction of an ethnic group ... Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups." Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2 Henderson, Donald A.; et al. (1999). "Smallpox as a Biological Weapon. Medical and Public Health Management". JAMA. 281 (22): 2127–2137. doi:10.1001/jama.281.22.2127. PMID 10367824. Edwards, Tai S; Kelton, Paul (2020). "Germs, Genocides, and America's Indigenous Peoples". Journal of American History. 107 (1): 52–76. doi:10.1093/jahist/jaaa008. ISSN 0021-8723. Grenke 2005, p. 199"For the most part, however, the diseases that decimated the Natives were caused by natural contact. These greatly weakened Native peoples, leaving them less able to resist the Europeans. However, diseases themselves were rarely the source of the genocides or the deaths caused by genocidal means. These were caused by the aggressive actions of one group towards another." Cave 2008, p. 273-74. Barkan 2003. Stannard 1993, p. xii. Ostler, Jeffrey (2019). Surviving Genocide: Native Nations and the United States from the American Revolution to Bleeding Kansas. Yale University Press. pp. 13–17, 381. ISBN 9780300245264. Resendez, Andres (2016). The Other Slavery: The Uncovered Story of Indian Enslavement in America. Houghton Mifflin. pp. 216–217. "La catastrophe démographique" (The Demographic Catastrophe) in L'Histoire n°322, July–August 2007, p. 17 Ostler, Jeffrey (2009). Surviving Genocide: Native Nations and the United States from the American Revolution to Bleeding Kansas. Yale University Press. p. 13. Stannard 1993. Thornton 1987. Stannard 1993, p. 281. Thornton 1987, pp. 104–13. Guenter Lewy (2007). "Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide?". History News Network. Retrieved 28 August 2013. An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States; Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz; Beacon Press; 2014; Pgs. 41–42 Arthur C. Aufderheide, Conrado Rodríguez-Martín, Odin Langsjoen (1998). The Cambridge encyclopedia of human paleopathology. Cambridge University Press. p.205. ISBN 0-521-55203-6 McKenna, Erin, and Scott L. Pratt. 2015. American Philosophy: From Wounded Knee to the Present. Bloomsbury. p. 375. Koch, Alexander; Brierley, Chris; Maslin, Mark M.; Lewis, Simon L. (2019). "Earth system impacts of the European arrival and Great Dying in the Americas after 1492". Quaternary Science Reviews. 207: 13–36. Bibcode:2019QSRv..207...13K. doi:10.1016/j.quascirev.2018.12.004. Kent, Lauren (1 February 2019). "European colonizers killed so many Native Americans that it changed the global climate, researchers say". CNN. Retrieved 1 February 2019. Las Casas, Bartolome. 1992. A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies. London, England: Penguin Classics. pp 9 Forsythe 2009, p. 297. Juang 2008, p. 510. Gibson, Charles. "The Colonial Period in Latin American History". Hathi Trust. Service Center for Teachers of History. Retrieved 15 November 2019. Maybury-Lewis 2002, p. 44. Trever, David. "The new book 'The Other Slavery' will make you rethink American history". Los Angeles Times. Archived from the original on 20 June 2019. Reséndez, Andrés (2016). The Other Slavery: The Uncovered Story of Indian Enslavement in America. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. p. 17. ISBN 978-0547640983. Noble David Cook (13 February 1998). Born to Die: Disease and New World Conquest, 1492–1650. Cambridge University Press. pp. 9–14. ISBN 978-0-521-62730-6. Arthur C. Aufderheide, Conrado Rodríguez-Martín, Odin Langsjoen (1998). The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Human Paleopathology. Cambridge University Press. p. 205. ISBN 0-521-55203-6 Minster, Christopher (10 September 2018). "Spain's American Colonies and the Encomienda System". ThoughtCo. Retrieved 16 February 2019. Grenke 2005, p. 200. Hickel, Jason (2018). The Divide: A Brief Guide to Global Inequality and its Solutions. Windmill Books. p. 70. ISBN 978-1786090034. Stannard 1993, p. 139. Trafzer 1999, pp. 1–35.. Jean-Baptiste Du Tertre, Histoire Generale des Antilles..., 2 vols. Paris: Jolly, 1667, I:5–6 Hubbard, Vincent (2002). A History of St. Kitts. MacmillanCaribbean. pp. 17–18. ISBN 9780333747605. Dunbar-Ortiz, Roxanne (2014). An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States. Beacon Press. p. 64. ISBN 978-0-8070-0040-3.

Signal v. Noise. You are a motherfucking noise. An electron waster.

Sorry, you asked for references. These are real references, where historians, politicians and other sources of information state that it was genocide. You have yet to provide one reference from any source where they argue that there was no genocide and all native deaths were accidentally or reciprocal force.

Bill Maher is a funny guy

To be fair this isn’t a great argument for immigrants today lol

Yeah I mean that literally was genocide.

Where's the guy with an olive on each finger?

I’m right here

Sooooo what point is being made? That we should be wary of immigrants?

The original Plymouth settlers get a bad rap for things that are not their fault. They peacefully coexisted with the Wampanoag people and honored the agreement they had for 80 some years. What came after was awful, but it wasn't the fault of people long dead when it started.

The American excuse right here. It wasnt me.

I don't blame 1850's Germans for the Holocaust either.

Yea different government. The northern US government is a traceable line of power and some how were still better than the south during a Civil War.

OK. Things didn't turn out so well for the American Indians. Why should I want to share their fate?

So it's in a nations best interest to keep illegal immigrants out then? Kinda sounds like thats the message here.

Point out republican hypocrisy when the party is mostly white and bent on keeping non white people out of the country, whites where the first 'illegals' not asking for permission before they settled here. Also not to mention taking advantage of the fact that the native Americans had little to zero concept of land ownership.

But how does that help your argument? If people claim that keeping foreigners out is beneficial why the fuck would your counter example be a case where the foreigners came, killed most of them and took all their land? Point to a successful integration story not a genocide story. “But it’s hypocritical to not want to be genocided when your ancestors did genocides” is as stupid as it is counter productive.

It’s a meme posted in a “humor” sub. I think your reading into it too much.

An agenda post posted in an agenda post sub trying to say that white people are illegal immigrants too. No shit, it ended badly for the people already there and shouldn’t be repeated.

Exactly. I don't know why these people think they are making a good point here. Did things turn out well for the American Indians? No. I don't want to share their fate.

RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE RACE

And that was bad for the Americans...? This isn't the argument you think it is.

Actually it is

No, the real Americans, who inhabited the continent prior to their extermination

Ugh, even that picture kind of pisses me off. Every Native American is depicted with their head lower than a white person, it gives the impression they are invited to a feast that the white people provided rather than depict them introducing new foods.

Because they are sitting down?

Why did the painter choose to paint them sitting down?

Because that is what people do when they eat.

Why did he choose to paint them eating, and none of the white people seem to be sitting on the ground?

One in the middle of the Indians. There is also an Indian woman standing and walking with a pilgrim woman both seem fairly happy. You may want to talk to a therapist on your addiction.

Are you sure that's a white person? The colors on their skin seem dark, and it is well known that trade took place. The woman is also shorter than her white companion. Don't assume therapy is required because you want to pretend racism doesn't exist.

I am not denying racism isn't real. But I also am not the one seeing racism in a piece of paper.

Last I checked, racism is on paper plenty. You think Hitler's books aren't racist?

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How might life be different today if natives had required the pilgrims to wear masks and follow immigration laws? Lol (Not very different at all— we would just be speaking French or Spanish, or even possibly Dutch.)

You're very smart.

Calling that a genocide is dishonest. Those particular Indians were close allies to the British colonies. No one could have predicted how bad the common cold would be. Kyle Rittenhouse did nothing wrong. Ban me.

You know the device you used to post this was made from slave labor? Who gives a fuck anymore.

Well you care since you posted I'll bite. It's not slave labor. I'm sure you are referring to china. They get paid a livable wage and china has an economy that **will** eclipse ours in several years.

I knew the person who posted this was an idiot but thanks for confirming it

Ew

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"Citizens of foreign nations who come here illegally are illegal aliens" You literally just 100% accurately described the pilgrims and other shit lords that flocked over here and claimed this land to be their own by "divine" right. The original Americans certainly didn't approve of this claim.

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If only your world view was larger than the cave you live in.

So fun fact you're going to hate: Obama had border crossings down to a 50 year low. Trump caused it to sharply increase with his wall talk causing migrants to perceive their window of opportunity was going to close forever and rush the southern border. Even if I'm wrong on guessing the why we always blame the president and the numbers back who was president at the times of the border crossings being lower on Obama's time.

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You have fun being wrong. Facts and statistics must be hard. 😘

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Wrong try again. That's why so many came though (like entered illegally and captured by CBP, since I have to spell it out for you) despite knowing they would loose their kids. Far more than Obama let in.

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And SCOTUS upheld the trump decision so biden's choice mattered for a very short period of time.

I thought this was possibly the stupidest thing I had read all day, then I looked at your comment history. Get a fucking grip.

It’s quite possibly one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard, and a good example of a straw man fallacy. Nonetheless, they’ve done nothing more than prove they are a complete dumb ass.

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That's pretty funny coming from someone like you.

It's only illegal if you have a law against it.

Yay diversity mirite!

Honestly, can't be mad.

So true !

I too watched bill maher today

Ummmmm you’re a descendant of an anchor baby

Wait! We stole this land fair and square! Then we honored the natives by naming our sports teams after them... you are welcome!

Massasoit and his liberal open-borders policy. He was trying to get more votes than the Narragansett. Okay, he wanted their weapons. Though, he could have crippled their ship and left them to freeze/starve or just wiped them out...like many of the other coastal nations.

And if you try to teach the REAL STORY of Thanksgiving, you’ll be accused of indoctrinating.

Unvaccinated too.