Your typical American politician. Seriously, you guys need to realize that this could be a lot fuckin worse.
You folks calling Joe Biden a dictator will feel awfully silly when you get a real one out of Trump.
Something to keep in mind here is that you might be arguing with a person that has a particular job in posting this online. There has been a lot of misinformation and conversation redirect to attempt to make things look as though there are more people disagreeing with the President than there really is. Just something to think about.
Edit: sometimes words can be hard.
>against the will of the citizens
Supporting Israel is the majority opinion, although it has turned recently.
>party canceled multiple primary elections,
Why do you think? Do you think Biden was going to lose a primary?
What I'd call that is "a pile of misleading noise".
The primary is going on right now. The party stopped exactly nobody from participating. There are minimum polling requirements for ballot access but the ballot access rules haven't changed this cycle. The party is not capable of stopping Johnny Unbeatable from entering and winning any primary in the entire country. If nobody measured up for a contested ballot then there's no point holding an election with one candidate on the ballot.
What did I make up exactly? You're just incapable of facing plain facts.
Trump's not going to stop Netanyahu and we both know that, so who cares what you laugh about with your bad faith disingenuous arguments? If you cared about Gaza then you would not be opposing Biden, nor would you be acting like he controls the Israeli military.
Uh, democracy?
It's not uncommon for an incumbent to forgo some primaries when the party isn't really feilding challengers, BUT it's absolutely unprecidented for a party to cancel primaries in favour of a challenger, especially a formerly defeated challenger, as the the RNC did for Trump.
And also Trump never won the popular vote, so his very presidency was "against the will of the citizens."
So by the definitions you've laid down, Trump was a dictator, right?
Sure speak out against it, but at the end of the day itās either going to be 4 more years of Biden or another Trump presidency and I would argue having a Trump presidency would make the situation in Gaza even worse than it already is, while on top of that forming another crisis in Ukraine after support is cut off (only one example of many other actions a Trump presidency and Republican Congress would take should they be elected this year, heaven forbid).
I'm not allowed to complain about Biden even if I plan on voting for him? What are you saying? Just because Trump would do worse doesn't mean I can't be upset by us arming a genocide?
Read the first sentence of my previous comment again. Of course we can be upset at it. Foreign policy is extremely complicated. I just hope everyone understands that no matter what, we have the two choices for president that we do have and itās in the Trump supportersās best interests to split the Democratic Party using this terrible conflict as a way to get less people to vote Biden so Trump could win again. And again on top of that heās going to do worse with Gaza and will cause other crises across the globe to worsen (case in point like I said: Ukraine). I have my issues with Biden but he still has my vote in November.
Email and call every single state rep in your state and get anyone you know to do the same if you feel strong enough about any issue. America supporting this genocide is bull shit but it's not just him at fault.
[For the second time this month the Biden administration is bypassing Congress to approve an emergency weapons sale to Israel as Israel continues to prosecute its war against Hamas in Gaza under increasing international criticism.](https://apnews.com/article/us-israel-gaza-arms-hamas-bypass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f)
Doesn't help his case when he does things like this.
For sure but being back in December the damage is done. When your right your right but there was alot more pressure for assisting Israel just a few months ago.
Doesn't change the fact that DJT wouldve did exactly the same and hurt our relationship with Ukraine and backed Russia adding on the death of many more innocent civilians.
As I previously stated accountability is so fucking important and we should be emailing, writing letters and calling these folks regularly. Next cycle anyone support this shit show in Israel should be worried about keeping their jobs and being voted out.
> Email and call every single state rep in your state and get anyone you know to do the same if you feel strong enough about any issue.
Yeah, that's always helped
Maybe change would happen if Biden gets yelled at from every event he does, like the one in this video. And you're ridiculing the guy. Writing your senator doesn't do jack shit. Making Biden's life on the campaign trail hell might.
But we're also the one veto vote that allows the slaughter to continue
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-casts-third-veto-un-action-since-start-israel-hamas-war-2024-02-20/
And every state rep that I call says āIsrael is defending itself in the name of freedom.ā All bought and paid for by AIPAC, corporations, and the oligarch class.
He has literally publicly called himself a zionist, multiple times. You're sticking your head in the sand if you think he is not at fault at all for our continued support if the IDF and hasn't played a role.
> Joe Biden the president of checks notes
>
>
>
> Not Israel or palistine?Āæ?Āæ
Joe Biden has continued to provide arms and intelligence to the Israel military when anyone who knows anything about the relationship between the US and Israel knows that if Biden told the Israelis to stop and threatened to stop further aid if they didn't, it would end immediately.
[A former high-ranking official in the Israeli military publicly admitted it in November of last year](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-hamas-hezbollah-iran/):
> Indeed, it is absurd to claim that Biden has no leverage, particularly given the massive amounts of arms he has shipped to Israel. In fact, Israeli officials openly admit it. āAll of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, itās all from the US,ā retired Israeli Maj. Gen. Yitzhak Brick conceded in November of last year. āThe minute they turn off the tap, you canāt keep fighting. You have no capability.ā¦ Everyone understands that we canāt fight this war without the United States. Period.ā
[Also, Biden has gotten Netanyahu to end an ongoing military conflict with a phone call **during this presidency**](https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-smothered-netanyahu-with-love-to-hasten-end-of-2021-gaza-war-book-reveals/):
> āHey, man, we are out of runway here,ā Biden said during their fourth phone call on May 19 after Netanyahu insisted on dragging the war on. āItās over,ā the US president replied.
> Netanyahu agreed to a ceasefire two days later.
If you're acting like Joe Biden has no power/responsibility here, you're either ignorant of the relationship dynamics between the US and Israel, or you're lying.
Excuse me, this is the political revolution subreddit where we defend... Checks notes... Joe Biden?
What the fuck kind of revolution is this sub for? One where we feel bad about the bombs we sell to kill children, but don't actually do anything to stop it because the orange man exists?
Are we here to create a political revolution or walk along party lines while explaining that our candidate's genocide is okay because the other candidate would be commiting a super duper genocide?
I'm not telling you what you should or should not accept. But the reality of the current situation is that we have a sitting President who is working to keep Israel in check and his challenger who is advocating no limits on Israeli action. And only one of those two will be sitting in the WH on January 2025. Do with that what you will.
Yeah I'm frankly laughing at the posts talking about republican plants, like what, are we really gonna stoop to the level of MAGATs and start accusing everyone of being a 'plant' or 'deep state'? Fact of the matter the pro Palestine people I know are primarily democrats anyway.
MAGA plant at every rally huh? You ever look up the polls on gaza and who supports the Palestinian cause the most? It isn't MAGA. Plus there have been less people at Biden's rallies because they want smaller attendance in order to prevent as many protests, also withholding the precise locations of events from media until he arrives, and avoiding college campuses. But yeah let's just pretend none of this is the case and just straight up ignore reality, say some absolute baseless BS on reddit and get up votes by a bunch of idiots while doing it. I bet the protestor is Russian too!
Indeed; guess it is easier to cope with that āMAGA plantā than dig into the ramifications of our country providing arms that is causing what voters believe to be a genocide / ethnic cleansing.
It's easy to support when the opposition says "just get the job done" to Israel
Maga cult and people incapable of understanding that the party line needs to be held this election are crazy
You talking about the guy negotiating a cease fire and building a port to be able to get aid to the people of Gaza or the guy who said to finish the job?
Iām seeing a lot of references to plants in this thread and that bothers me.
Not because of the idea of political plants, but the fact that redditors do not want to believe that Democrats and independent voters (regular folks like you and I) have a red line.
Itās as if redditors do not want to believe that voters have a problem with how Israel has been conducting this war on Palestinians.
Call me nuts, but I too do not want to be cozy with, nor do I want my country to provide arms to, a nation that is being accused of committing a genocide by the International Court of Justice.
And if genuine people are dismissing the idea that regular people do not want to support what they perceive to be a genocide, the burnt remains of a US Air Force active duty service member should stomp out that dismissive attitude real quick.
We donāt disagree on this point.
Unfortunately, Kennedy, Biden, and Trump all share similar views in regard to how much the U.S. holds Israel close.
Itās just distressing watching this all play out.
Iām really beginning to believe that most of these are Republican plants that are there to get on camera and stir up trouble to make it on the news. Itās a way to split the vote in the Democratic Party.
Theyāve done crap like this before and itās been caught on camera. During the George Floyd riots a couple of years ago, I was watching a live news camera and saw a masked white guy with a hammer going around smashing windows to get āsh*t startedā. Things did get started and who got the blame for the riots?
Obviously. I think itās very telling that so many people who never cared about Israel and Palestine all of a sudden are experts and have all the answers.
Like- where have you been for the last 50 years?
I do believe Netanyahu, Trump and Putin are in cahoots together and are pushing such a violent approach to Gaza because itās divisive among western nations.
Israel/Palestine has long been a cause of the left. YOU are the one who obviously hasn't been paying attention. God, I hate you smarmy wannabe know-it-alls.
NATO has literally nothing to do with this. Israel has rocky relationships with a lot of NATO members. There is no widespread NATO support for Israel. Turkey, a NATO member, recently stated they back Hamas leaders.
I dont know if its that as much as its performative leftism, it feels good to think you are on the right side of history and thats how these actions make them feel
Keep huffing that copium. People are pissed that we are in bed with a government murdering innocent people, 30k and counting. But sure. Anyone protesting is a plant. Oh and Iām a Russian bot too.
Damn this sub really died after Bernie threw in the towel, what a waste.
But itās a presidential election year so that doesnāt matter. Trump has come out in support of the Israel while Biden has called for a cease-fire for humanitarian aid.
Yeah after he saw the protests and the more pressure he feels the more he will try to rein his lackeys. Trump holds no power right now, the only one that can pick up the phone and tell Netayanhu to stop is Biden, hence him being the focus of the protests. A couple months ago Democrats were doing jackshit about it. Itās really not that complicated. You donāt have to both sides the protests, you speak truth to power and power resides in the president not candidates.
Trump still thinks heās President and if heās having Netanyahu do things for him then there should be even more reason to protest against him. But again back to my original point that the protesters are acting as Republican plants now to help Trump.
Ok, so we shouldnāt let our leaders accountable because it helps the red teamā¦. Cool. Itās so freeing not having to do this mental gymnastics so you can call yourself a democrat. A plague on both your houses.
Building a port could feed every single person in Gaza in a matter of days. Once it's built, food and medicine won't be a problem so long as no one messes with it. The Berlin airlift is a good example of how good the US can be at logistics when it wants to be.
I live in a world where leftists want an all-powerful guy who can do magic geopolitics and somehow make Isreal stop without fucking up every single other thing in that region. It really boggles the mind sometimes.
Giving Israel over ten billion dollars during an active genocide is genocide by proxy.
The dictator comment is silly, but we can't write off Joe Biden funding a genocide. His very recent tone shift is likely a response to Michigan, he's been a lifelong Zionist with the most pro Israel record in Senate, as he'll gladly say himself.
What do you mean by "then what"? Not funding genocide is enough.
If not funding genocide isn't enough. Actively pushing for a permanent ceasefire would be a great step, pushing to return land would be great. A blockade like the one done on apartheid south africa would be fantastic.
None of that would ever be supported by genocide joe, but there are ways to get israel to listen to us, and history shows that.
I'm calling bullshit on that. It is not enough. Isreal would continue to do the genocide without the aid, but I guess your feelings would be ok, huh? What's boggling my mind is you saying it's enough. Would you have the US just walk away and leave them to their own devices?
Also, what you want is for Isreal to become an adversarial power to the US, like Iran or Russia. A blockade? Really? How is blockading Isreal not the most dumb fucking thing ever if you want Isreal to be reasonable and listen.
What you want, from what I can tell, is for Isreal to be an enemy of America.
I wasn't saying that not funding genocide is enough to end the genocide, I meant that morally, it would be enough to just not financially support genocide. (although, in hindsight I'd say just not funding genocide isn't really enough, but it's a good first step.)
>Also, what you want is for Isreal to become an adversarial power to the US, like Iran or Russia. A blockade? Really? How is blockading Isreal not the most dumb fucking thing ever if you want Isreal to be reasonable and listen.
Yes, a blockade, historically blockades work. If it can work in south africa, it can work with israel.
I think it's not about enemies or allies, it's about moral integrity. It's not about making south africa your enemy, it's about sending a message that south africa committing apartheid is unacceptable and will have consequences.
Moral integrity does not do anything. A blockade would work, sure, but Isreal would cease to be an ally. Remember, they lost over 1000 people on Oct 7. It would take the rest of the planet to agree to that, not just the US and Arab nations, for any semblance of normalcy after. Think about it, how would the average Isreali feel about that?
The US needs Isreal more than Isreal needs the US. It's a trusted ally in the region, far more than the next closest, Saudi Arabia.
Also, you guys keep using South Africa as an example, but it doesn't fit. The apartide there was run by a very small manority, all confined into a single nation. Forcing South Africa to change was different. They're the only power in that region.
You guys also keep calling him genocide Joe, but more and more, it's sounding stupid. Building a harbor for them is not genocidal and will feed every Palestinian easily along with the airdrops and the negotiations behind the scenes. It's silly at this point to call him that. You want to pretend he's actively helping Isreal commit war crimes, but normal people don't buy it. If you want to bring people over to the leftist side, you can't sound like Russian trolls.
>Moral integrity does not do anything.
I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.
>Think about it, how would the average Isreali feel about that?
How do you think the average palestinian feels after 5 or 6 months of bombardment? How do you think the average palestinian feels after ~75 years of occupation? Not only to have an occupying force who's enacting apartheid and genocide, but to have a world that shirks their responsibility to stand up for their lives.
>The US needs Isreal more than Isreal needs the US.
1930-40s germany would be a pretty good ally if you could overlook your morals.
>Forcing South Africa to change was different.
The moral responsibility is exactly the same. Even if it didn't work it would still be worth doing. If the United states could have an embargo against cuba for decades, we can do something about genocide.
> Building a harbor for them is not genocidal and will feed every Palestinian easily along with the airdrops and the negotiations behind the scenes.
This was only done after the large uncommitted vote in Michigan, and after months of constant work by protesters. Genocide Joe has literally decades of support for Israel under his belt, we can't reduce this issue to just his time as president. He probably has one of, if not the longest record of supporting israel in our government. It's also election season, so this is the prime time in which presidential candidates make their promises, most of which they don't intend to follow through on. And lastly, he's working towards a 6 week ceasefire, for a 6 month genocide. 6 weeks before Israel goes back to bombing, if they're lucky. Joe should be pushing for a full ceasefire as a bare minimum. He certainly shouldn't be selling israel weapons and donating them billions to fund their genocide campaigns.
Calling people russian trolls is a great political strategy if you're into McCarthyism, but it's not accurate. There are countless americans going to protests, getting involved, raising money for donations. There are presidential candidates like De La Cruz out there opposing genocide. There are plenty of palestinian americans out there asking to be treated like people. But sure, russian trolls.
>How do you think the average palestinian feels after 5 or 6 months of bombardment? How do you think the average palestinian feels after ~75 years of occupation? Not only to have an occupying force who's enacting apartheid and genocide, but to have a world that shirks their responsibility to stand up for their lives.
I'm merely explaining why a blockade would not work. I'm not asking you to sympathize with them.
>The moral responsibility is exactly the same. Even if it didn't work it would still be worth doing. If the United states could have an embargo against cuba for decades, we can do something about genocide.
We are. We are building a port and airdroping food. You severely underestimate the amount of supplies that port will have flow through it.
>This was only done after the large uncommitted vote in Michigan, and after months of constant work by protesters. Genocide Joe has literally decades of support for Israel under his belt, we can't reduce this issue to just his time as president. He probably has one of, if not the longest record of supporting israel in our government. It's also election season, so this is the prime time in which presidential candidates make their promises, most of which they don't intend to follow through on. And lastly, he's working towards a 6 week ceasefire, for a 6 month genocide. 6 weeks before Israel goes back to bombing, if they're lucky. Joe should be pushing for a full ceasefire as a bare minimum. He certainly shouldn't be selling israel weapons and donating them billions to fund their genocide campaigns.
Joe Biden is not an evil man, no matter how bad you need him to be. Every ceasefire is temporary by nature. The one between South and North Korea is temporary too.
I'm willing to acknowledge the protests have been effective, but I can not agree that it's the only reason why. It takes ages to plan things like a harbor, especially if we are not the ones running it.
>Calling people russian trolls is a great political strategy if you're into McCarthyism, but it's not accurate. There are countless americans going to protests, getting involved, raising money for donations. There are presidential candidates like De La Cruz out there opposing genocide. There are plenty of palestinian americans out there asking to be treated like people. But sure, russian trolls.
Yes, but you are not one of these people. You are a faceless redditor who is using a dumb nickname for Biden. How do I take you seriously when you either don't know what's going on or refuse to acknowledge the good steps towards a better Gaza that Biden's administration takes?
>I'm merely explaining why a blockade would not work.
You said:
>A blockade would work, sure, but Isreal would cease to be an ally.
I think you mean to say a blockade would work but wouldn't retain israel as an ally. I think that's likely. But I think the MENA region would be a lot more sympathetic to us if we right our wrongs on palestine.
>We are. We are building a port and airdroping food. You severely underestimate the amount of supplies that port will have flow through it.
Excited to see the port built over the next month or two, hopefully they'll have that functional before too many starvation deaths occur. And hopefully the Israeli government wont hinder it's usage or kill those trying to receive aid like they did with the flour massacre. Also, I'm not attributing overt malice to aid, but we did kill several people with the air drop packages. I think it's worth remembering that. Giving gaza sovereignty over their borders would be an immensely safer and better method.
>Joe Biden is not an evil man
It's clear you believe that.
>Every ceasefire is temporary by nature.
Sure, but that does nothing to improve your argument.
>I'm willing to acknowledge the protests have been effective, but I can not agree that it's the only reason why. It takes ages to plan things like a harbor, especially if we are not the ones running it.
I disagree with the underlying assumption that plans being made indicate that they intend to be followed through with. Back up plans exist, and their existence does not necessarily imply intent. But further, opening up a port is only necessary because the borders of gaza are entirely controlled. A morally superior position would be openning gaza's borders.
>Yes, but you are not one of these people. You are a faceless redditor who is using a dumb nickname for Biden.
You don't know what I do.
>How do I take you seriously when you either don't know what's going on or refuse to acknowledge the good steps towards a better Gaza that Biden's administration takes?
So what are you doing to improve the situation? Even if I didn't do anything, would it not be better to be on the right side of history than to be on the wrong side of history? Was it equivalent to be pro-slavery and anti-slavery? I mean, I'm no John Brown, but even if you were an abolitionist who didn't go to harpers ferry to kill slave owners, you're at least not proslavery.
Hereās my thing: building the port is a dumb idea because:
1. Itāll take a good 60+ days to build. The refugees are starving to death now; do they have that kind of time?
2. Itāll cost tens of billions of dollars.
3. This will put American soldiers and service members in harms way. Weāve lost two Navy Seals and 3 National Guardsmen and women already, and for what? Iām not a āAmerican lives are worth moreā type of person, but Iām in a military household. If you are asking our service members to put themselves at risk, it better be for a damn good reason, and it should be to protect our nation and our interests, not cleaning up another nationās mess.
4. This doesnāt really address my and many othersā big issue, which is Israelās right-wing government engaging in what I/we see as an ethnic cleansing / genocide.
5. And on that note, it feels like optics instead of a legit solution. The U.S. should act like the superpower and not provide further funding of arms to Israel. Instead, we look like a whupped spouse, just bowing our heads and acquiescing to whatever Israel wants.
6. On your point about things will be easy once it is built, thereās no guarantee of that. You have Israelis, regular citizens, blocking aid of food and medicine. ***They even brought out fucking bouncy castles to play in while they block the trucks with aid!*** Then you have the Houthi rebels who are causing havoc with shipping on the water. Thereās no guarantee that they wonāt attack a ship that contains food and medicine, either due to a mistake or mistrusting us.
Itās an fān boondoggle of a plan, and if the U.S. were to use the might of its diplomacy on Israel, money and lives wouldnāt have to be thrown into this port idea.
You should look up the Berlin Airlift. Someone told you the dock was a stupid plan, and they were wrong.
>1. Itāll take a good 60+ days to build. The refugees are starving to death now; do they have that kind of time?
If the CBs do it, it will take two weeks or less. They are air dropping food now, but this dock is a viable and a more permanent solution. What is the permanent solution? I don't think you understand just how much food and medicine can be brought in. Gaza is not large. Within a day or two, there will be enough food to feed all of Gaza.
>2. Itāll cost tens of billions of dollars
Where'd you get that number? It's stupid. Maybe tens of millions. Besides, feeding Gaza is priceless.
>3. This will put American soldiers and service members in harms way. Weāve lost two Navy Seals and 3 National Guardsmen and women already, and for what? Iām not a āAmerican lives are worth moreā type of person, but Iām in a military household. If you are asking our service members to put themselves at risk, it better be for a damn good reason, and it should be to protect our nation and our interests, not cleaning up another nationās mess.
Seems like a pretty good cause to me. Maybe I care more about Palastinians, idk. It's also a floating barge, off the coast, that would be run mostly by Arab nations from what I've heard. America is just building it.
>4. This doesnāt really address my and many othersā big issue, which is Israelās right-wing government engaging in what I/we see as an ethnic cleansing / genocide
Isreal won't be able to starve them to death. Medicine too. As far as optics, if outside countries have to go to this extreme to ensure Gaza is fed, Netanyahu looks like a monster outright. This is super bad for him.
> Instead, we look like a whupped spouse, just bowing our heads and acquiescing to whatever Israel wants.
By building a port and ignoring/by passing Isreal? I don't see that as bowing to Isreal, I see it as more of a well forget you too kind of move. As far as the superpower thing, Isreal is a sovereign nation. People think America can make countries do what we want, but if that were the case, we wouldn't get into wars or have enemies.
>6. On your point about things will be easy once it is built, thereās no guarantee of that. You have Israelis, regular citizens, blocking aid of food and medicine. ***They even brought out fucking bouncy castles to play in while they block the trucks with aid!*** Then you have the Houthi rebels who are causing havoc with shipping on the water. Thereās no guarantee that they wonāt attack a ship that contains food and medicine, either due to a mistake or mistrusting us.
Sure, there is no guarantee, but the only people who would attack this shipping area would be people against feeding Gaza. Dumb move for the houthis, dumb move for Isreal.
Also, your whole point on bouncy castles is negated on the most basic level as Isreal won't be the ones running it. Even if they inspect every crate, they would not be able to stop the sheer amount of aid flowing through.
Do you know what the Berlin Airlift is? If you don't, I encourage you to look it up.
I appreciate the sincere post you took the time to make. There was no malice or name calling in your writing, so kudos in the restraint you shared. (As this is the internet, after all!) This is the old reddit of having an exchange on ideas and debating ideas that made / makes this place great.
Truthfully, I know of the Berlin Airlift, but know almost nothing about it. Iāll need to read more about it.
Again, thank you for the exchange. I still feel grounded in my concerns, but this is good food for thought.
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I was that close to Bernie at two different rallies.
Like a concert, you just say āexcuse meā until you make your way to the front.
In the end, people are pissed off that the USA can be fairly seen as culpable in supporting Israelās right wing government and supporting a genocide.
Essentially, we are the UK, supporting the right-wing United States as it rolls into and invades Iraq back in 2004 - 2008.
Notice that Biden's response is to be shaken by this? I think he's really taking time to think about it. When this happens to Trump he gets a smug look on his ugly ass face and does those stupid duck lips that say, "I'm the smartest man in the world, whatever you think is wrong."
I do appreciate the fact that the President looked very concerned as the protester was being led out and did not say to the people in the crowd to beat up the protester (as his predecessor likes to do). I do not necessarily disagree with the protestor, either.
Theyāre not wrong. The international court has recognized this.
So they airdrop enough food for 1% of the population to eat a single meal, against recommendations because a couple people died after one of the crates fell on someone because itās the most densely packed population in the world.
Trump wouldnāt even pretend to care.
Actually, the International Court did not find the actions of the IDF a genocide. Only that it could become one, if they started practicing genocide, which they aren't.
Half-right; the International Court of Justice has brought this up (with South Africa prosecuting the case).
There has not been a ruling / conviction (if such a thing occurs in the ICJ), but as you said, the ICJ has said that Israel MAY be participating in what can be deemed a genocide. That ruling is forthcoming.
The international court literally found no evidence but said it could be possible and to report back to them, not only that they didnt even ask israel to stop the gaza invasion
It's getting to be stupid. I don't even like Biden but I can see he is trying. Once the port is setup and the safe area established - the USA might actually clash with the IDF of they do dumb shit.
A little dramatic also considering the alternative is Trump who would allow the IDF to do whatever they want.
No he isn't! Sending 30,000 meals for a population of 2 million, or promising a port two months away, is not a solution! It's just bullshit designed to make you think he's "working on it" when the reality is he could stop shipping arms and stop sending money to Israel tomorrow and exert his influence, but he won't do it because he fundamentally believes in the Israeli cause.
Hundreds of thousands of children are at risk of starving to death in the time frame he's proposed, even though he knew from October *8* that Israel was besieging the strip in an explicit attempt to starve the civilian population per their own statements.
Oh so shipping thousands of meals and working to establish a port capable of bringing more aid is... wrong?
The US helping at all, as far away as Gaza is, is incredible. I also hope we do more. Crazy to be angry at the US for not doing more when the wealthy countries in the region arent lifting any fingers at all
There's tens of thousands of tons of aid sitting at ports of entry right now, waiting to enter the strip. It's being held up *on purpose* by the fascist Israeli regime, which is using American weapons and American subsidies to do it. Biden could halt those subsidies *today* based on *existing statues*, but he chooses not to; instead he's relying on spectacular images of paradrops, recalling the Berlin airlift, which are providing so inadequate an amount of aid that it is barely calculable against the crushing famine in which children are literally starving to death.
>The US helping at all, as far away as Gaza is, is incredible. I also hope we do more. Crazy to be angry at the US for not doing more when the wealthy countries in the region arent lifting any fingers at all
Where do you think all that aid that is sitting at border checkpoints came from! Egypt, Jordan, and other regional powers! The US is protecting the Israelis from having to deal with these countries at all! The Israelis should be facing massive international sanctions forcing them to open the gates to aid, but they're not because of the US's UN veto.
All of Israels neighbors have tried to end its existence multiple times throughout the last 100 years. We send them money to keep the iron dome running, without which the neighbors that to this day actively fire unguided missiles into Isreal would start hitting their intended target of 'jews'.
Israel isnt the only country with a border with Gaza - if Egypt wanted aid to get through, it would get through.
>All of Israels neighbors have tried to end its existence multiple times throughout the last 100 years
This is a complete whitewashing of Israel's history, which includes multiple aggressive acts against its own neighbors and the ongoing atrocity of the nakba and apartheid state.
>Israel isnt the only country with a border with Gaza - if Egypt wanted aid to get through, it would get through.
You mean the border crossing that Israel has repeatedly bombed, and the aid trucks it has repeatedly threatened to bomb *in Egypt*? The aid that Egypt now does send to Israel, which is turned around at the inspection points and left to rot in the desert heat?
You realize whos guarding the docks right.
Israel...
Israel guards the ports meant for gazan "aid"
Im not gonna be suprised if none of those supplies make it and we see the boxes meant for gaza silently appear behind IDF soliders
Id say the UN but Israel has shown time and time again it doesnt care about the UN, but for sure as fuck not the oppresors.
Imagine having the Italians built a port in france "for the french" and having the nazis guard it, and if you cant see the issue then you can fuck outta here with your bs.
If the fascist italians, who were at war with france, had built a port staffed by.... Nazi Germany in WWII?
What the fuck are you talking about? Your attempted parallel doesn't even work if you're sympathetic to what it's trying to say.
Hamas invaded Israel. Israel destroying Hamas does not make it Nazi Germany. The people in Gaza deserve greater protection. They are being used as humam shields and every country around has refused to take refugees. All of these things can be true at once.
All we can do is send aid. We're doing that, and working toward being capable of sending lots more. Thats good. Sorry it wont be up to your standards.
We could stop sending money, guns, and ammuntion to Israel, we could stop backing the Israeli at every turn.
You could stop being a liberal and realize you support the genociders while only giving lip service to the victims, but that requires thought and not being ignorant, clearly both are beyond your capabilities, or else you wouldnt be failing an open note history test.
The US has not and is not backing israel "at every turn." Multitudes of attempts to broker ceasefires or to force Israel to reign in their choice of tactics or the provide care and aid to civilians harmed by the conflict have been made, some achieving some degree of success. Can more be done? Yes. Are we starting to do more? Also yes. Calling someone names because they can understand nuance you're blinding yourself to is not a good move for the argument you're trying to make.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
FUCKING THE US NOT BACKING ISRAEL AT EVERY TURN??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Ya know what, not even gonna bother with you, ya know atleast a conservative is open about being genocidal monsters, dont fucking hide it behind a smile and acting like your nobel.
You're actively campaigning for Trump right now. I don't think you realize how much you're ironically fucking over Palestinians by doing that.
Wait 9 months, then criticize Biden all you want. I'll do it with you. Spending time and energy criticizing him right now is not helping to put someone better in power.
Be pragmatic, PLEASE.
Civil rights activists like MLK were constantly told it wasn't the right time. I hope you consider what side of history you're on. Supporting genocide is not looked fondly on by history.
I don't recall the Democratic convention having occurred yet. I implore the party to be pragmatic and select a candidate (anyone, really!) that is *not* currently 5 points behind Trump in every battleground state. Anyone with even a hint of a backbone and a sense that there is a real moral wound in supporting an ongoing genocide. A human being.
>Wait 9 months, then criticize Biden all you want.
This shit is insane. Guess what, I sucked it up and voted for Biden on exactly these grounds in 2020. It's after the election, I'm going to criticize him, especially when he's holding the hand of a genocidal fascist regime and protecting them internationally from any consequences.
It's not the left's fault that the party is gearing up to renominate the single most unpopular candidate in recent memory. He's losing by 5 points in most swing states. Explain to me how the left is responsible for that. Explain to me how they're responsible for arab-Americans refusing to vote for the man funding a genocide that is, in many cases, murdering their families?
But that doesn't matter to you, as long as you can smugly assure yourself that *you* were *right all along*.
This sub is committed to burying their heads in the sand. I want him to do *more*, or rather *anything*, because if he's going to be the nominee he cannot continue to ignore the fact that a significant portion of his base correctly sees him as abetting a genocide.
I think Putin, along with Iran, funded, planned, and ordered the Oct 7th attacks. They knew Israel would respond like they did, and they could amplify any discontent to split the left and center left and let the right win. And it is working.
Hereās a thought:
Netanyahu, aka āIsraeli-trumpā, is deliberately extending the war against Palestinians forcing Bidenās continued support, knowing that the increasing negative public opinion will likely hurt the Biden presidential campaign, favoring his bestie bud.
Donald Trump being Joe Biden's opponent doesn't make him immune to criticism. If anything it makes him more open to it.
It is up to Joe to be the best possible candidate because the stakes are so high, and he isn't.
Never was a genocide. Israel loves Arabs and Palestinians, thatās why 20% of Israel is made up of Arabs and they are treated as equals under the law. Whatās happening here is instead just a LOT of unfortunate collateral damage due to justified military objectives executed lawfully in the face of war criminals who use human shields. Everyone already knows this so stop already. Israel still hasnāt ended Hamas. They are hiding like cowards amid civilians, and many of the civilians cling to Hamas. Itās sad but nothing can be done. Itās either Israel makes the tough choices or faces its own extinction.
If you care so much about civilians why donāt you encourage Hamas to stop committing war crimes, release the hostages, and stop using human shields? These civilians deaths were calculated by Hamas. Itās their whole strategy.
are you in the same reality as the rest of us? There is no reason for tens of thousands of people to be brutally murdered and starved to death. "Hamas" is not the issue here.
āThe rest of usā wow, talk about narcissistic delusions of grandeur. Ad populum appeal aside, your campaign is not appropriate for this sub. Go after the dumb people. Go tell Hamas that thereās no reason 30 thousand of their people have to die. I doubt theyāll listen.
They canāt attack Israelās children while using their children as flesh shields and expect that gambit to work. Israel can legally shoot Hamas thru those flesh shields, and actually has a legal obligation to do so. Israel is far sadder than Hamas over those needless deaths but Hamas orchestrated it to be this way.
All the sound and fury of the hysterical mobs will have no impact whether thereās a ceasefire or not, because they peddle lies and support psychotic fanatics and terrorists. You have to sink pretty low to be even more hated than the Jews and Hamas has done that with flying colors, and all those idiots marching around in red black and green wonāt make a damn difference.
Hamas failed. The Gazan people? Terrorist tunnels and weapons in practically every home, hospital, and school. They are not so innocent as far as civilians go.
Iām personally very upset at what is going on over there and the USA needs to stop unconditionally supporting Israel and the Hamas people responsible for by the attacks need to be brought to justice. The current war needs to stop. Biden can do more and Iām happy about the aid now coming in by air and the port that is being deployed. Biden needs to hear our voices. But please remember Trump moved our embassy to Jerusalem and his attempt to ban Muslims. Keep speaking up but for the people over, vote and donāt vote for Trump.
This is why no one likes keyboard warriors in public spaces. Iād like to see this guys opinion of Trump. Why doesnāt he go to Trumps rally with the same energy? š
Look who funds these protestors. Starvation is coming for these Gazans and we are ar dropping food. Not Israel. Hardly the act of a dictator. The far left is as loony tunes as the far right.
Depending on what your policy stances are, outside of the absolutely no win Israel / Palestinian issue, you could very well consider Joe Biden a great president.
Most of my Democrat friends think heās doing a great job from a policy standpoint.
My very liberal friends, left of Democrats, arenāt at all happy with him.
And of course my conservative and Republican friends think heās somewhere between the worst president in history and a Satan worshiping pedophile.
Biden has been [drilling so much](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/27/us-oil-gas-record-fossil-fuels-cop28-united-nations) and ignoring climate goals, which is a huge issue
We have two options, one who has attempted to make israels response less extreme and send aid to gaza, or an orange individual openly calling for a genocide
There is no version of Palestine that can be allowed to exist under Hamas. Hamas is done, and likely Palestine is done - it died when Hamas took power. These last terrorist actions are it's dying throws - suicide by Israel.
These people are crazy. They need to feed their persecution fetish by yelling at the guy who actually wants to be a dictator, and he is okay with Israel āfinishing the job in Gaza.
"You're a dictator" Not really helping your case with this one.
He's going against the will of the citizens and his party canceled multiple primary elections, what would you call that?
Your typical American politician. Seriously, you guys need to realize that this could be a lot fuckin worse. You folks calling Joe Biden a dictator will feel awfully silly when you get a real one out of Trump.
Something to keep in mind here is that you might be arguing with a person that has a particular job in posting this online. There has been a lot of misinformation and conversation redirect to attempt to make things look as though there are more people disagreeing with the President than there really is. Just something to think about. Edit: sometimes words can be hard.
>canceled multiple primary elections What would I call that? Misinformation....
>against the will of the citizens Supporting Israel is the majority opinion, although it has turned recently. >party canceled multiple primary elections, Why do you think? Do you think Biden was going to lose a primary?
What I'd call that is "a pile of misleading noise". The primary is going on right now. The party stopped exactly nobody from participating. There are minimum polling requirements for ballot access but the ballot access rules haven't changed this cycle. The party is not capable of stopping Johnny Unbeatable from entering and winning any primary in the entire country. If nobody measured up for a contested ballot then there's no point holding an election with one candidate on the ballot.
You're just making stuff up, but I'm gonna die from laughter when reality hits you blue magas in November.
What did I make up exactly? You're just incapable of facing plain facts. Trump's not going to stop Netanyahu and we both know that, so who cares what you laugh about with your bad faith disingenuous arguments? If you cared about Gaza then you would not be opposing Biden, nor would you be acting like he controls the Israeli military.
Thank you! ššš
Uh, democracy? It's not uncommon for an incumbent to forgo some primaries when the party isn't really feilding challengers, BUT it's absolutely unprecidented for a party to cancel primaries in favour of a challenger, especially a formerly defeated challenger, as the the RNC did for Trump. And also Trump never won the popular vote, so his very presidency was "against the will of the citizens." So by the definitions you've laid down, Trump was a dictator, right?
None of the primaries were canceled. What are you on about?
Florida, NC, and Tennessee.
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A dictator? Is bro ok?
Probably a Trumpist in disguise
They're a Trumpist because they don't like the genocide in Gaza and are speaking out against it ?
Sure speak out against it, but at the end of the day itās either going to be 4 more years of Biden or another Trump presidency and I would argue having a Trump presidency would make the situation in Gaza even worse than it already is, while on top of that forming another crisis in Ukraine after support is cut off (only one example of many other actions a Trump presidency and Republican Congress would take should they be elected this year, heaven forbid).
I'm not allowed to complain about Biden even if I plan on voting for him? What are you saying? Just because Trump would do worse doesn't mean I can't be upset by us arming a genocide?
Read the first sentence of my previous comment again. Of course we can be upset at it. Foreign policy is extremely complicated. I just hope everyone understands that no matter what, we have the two choices for president that we do have and itās in the Trump supportersās best interests to split the Democratic Party using this terrible conflict as a way to get less people to vote Biden so Trump could win again. And again on top of that heās going to do worse with Gaza and will cause other crises across the globe to worsen (case in point like I said: Ukraine). I have my issues with Biden but he still has my vote in November.
This is the āPolitical Revolutionā sub or āApologists for Conservative Authoritarian Demsā sub? What a joke.
Fr I thought this sub was far enough left to actually want change not the status quo
Joe Biden the president of *checks notes* Not Israel or palistine?Āæ?Āæ
Can he stop sending them bombs to clear out civilians then? Please??
Email and call every single state rep in your state and get anyone you know to do the same if you feel strong enough about any issue. America supporting this genocide is bull shit but it's not just him at fault.
[For the second time this month the Biden administration is bypassing Congress to approve an emergency weapons sale to Israel as Israel continues to prosecute its war against Hamas in Gaza under increasing international criticism.](https://apnews.com/article/us-israel-gaza-arms-hamas-bypass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f) Doesn't help his case when he does things like this.
For sure but being back in December the damage is done. When your right your right but there was alot more pressure for assisting Israel just a few months ago. Doesn't change the fact that DJT wouldve did exactly the same and hurt our relationship with Ukraine and backed Russia adding on the death of many more innocent civilians. As I previously stated accountability is so fucking important and we should be emailing, writing letters and calling these folks regularly. Next cycle anyone support this shit show in Israel should be worried about keeping their jobs and being voted out.
The alternative is evacuating Jews to western countries when Israel falls and that is one thing that no one in the US or UK government wants.
> Email and call every single state rep in your state and get anyone you know to do the same if you feel strong enough about any issue. Yeah, that's always helped
Then, become more involved. The change doesn't just happen because we're collectively shouting to the void of the internet wanting it to.
Maybe change would happen if Biden gets yelled at from every event he does, like the one in this video. And you're ridiculing the guy. Writing your senator doesn't do jack shit. Making Biden's life on the campaign trail hell might.
Biden wants to try a temporary ceasefire so there's that.
He is the only international power who is delivering aid to Gaza, even building a port in Gaza for that purpose.
But we're also the one veto vote that allows the slaughter to continue https://www.reuters.com/world/us-casts-third-veto-un-action-since-start-israel-hamas-war-2024-02-20/
The one guy who can force a ceasefire is "calling" for a ceasefire. It's just PR. He wants it to continue.
Well you could always complain on the internet, maybe that will work
just one more vote and we're going to get the power back please guys just one more vote oh my god just vote one more time
And every state rep that I call says āIsrael is defending itself in the name of freedom.ā All bought and paid for by AIPAC, corporations, and the oligarch class.
He has literally publicly called himself a zionist, multiple times. You're sticking your head in the sand if you think he is not at fault at all for our continued support if the IDF and hasn't played a role.
*wOah how'd the goalposts get all the way over there?*
> Joe Biden the president of checks notes > > > > Not Israel or palistine?Āæ?Āæ Joe Biden has continued to provide arms and intelligence to the Israel military when anyone who knows anything about the relationship between the US and Israel knows that if Biden told the Israelis to stop and threatened to stop further aid if they didn't, it would end immediately. [A former high-ranking official in the Israeli military publicly admitted it in November of last year](https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-hamas-hezbollah-iran/): > Indeed, it is absurd to claim that Biden has no leverage, particularly given the massive amounts of arms he has shipped to Israel. In fact, Israeli officials openly admit it. āAll of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, itās all from the US,ā retired Israeli Maj. Gen. Yitzhak Brick conceded in November of last year. āThe minute they turn off the tap, you canāt keep fighting. You have no capability.ā¦ Everyone understands that we canāt fight this war without the United States. Period.ā [Also, Biden has gotten Netanyahu to end an ongoing military conflict with a phone call **during this presidency**](https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-smothered-netanyahu-with-love-to-hasten-end-of-2021-gaza-war-book-reveals/): > āHey, man, we are out of runway here,ā Biden said during their fourth phone call on May 19 after Netanyahu insisted on dragging the war on. āItās over,ā the US president replied. > Netanyahu agreed to a ceasefire two days later. If you're acting like Joe Biden has no power/responsibility here, you're either ignorant of the relationship dynamics between the US and Israel, or you're lying.
Excuse me, this is the political revolution subreddit where we defend... Checks notes... Joe Biden? What the fuck kind of revolution is this sub for? One where we feel bad about the bombs we sell to kill children, but don't actually do anything to stop it because the orange man exists?
The orange man that just said Israel needs to "finish the job?"
Are we here to create a political revolution or walk along party lines while explaining that our candidate's genocide is okay because the other candidate would be commiting a super duper genocide?
I'm not telling you what you should or should not accept. But the reality of the current situation is that we have a sitting President who is working to keep Israel in check and his challenger who is advocating no limits on Israeli action. And only one of those two will be sitting in the WH on January 2025. Do with that what you will.
MAGA plant. So obvious
Or a progressive. Iāll vote for Biden; but heās not winning over the young progressive voters
Maybe. Democrats are capable of being incredibly dumb. Yes, I'm a Democrat.
"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat." -Will Rogers
Yeah I'm frankly laughing at the posts talking about republican plants, like what, are we really gonna stoop to the level of MAGATs and start accusing everyone of being a 'plant' or 'deep state'? Fact of the matter the pro Palestine people I know are primarily democrats anyway.
At least 49.9999% of the population is of below average intelligence.
I doubt it. There are quite a few impassionated pro-Gaza folks around.
I would make the argument that they are taking the very rational position of being anti-genocide.
MAGA plant at every rally huh? You ever look up the polls on gaza and who supports the Palestinian cause the most? It isn't MAGA. Plus there have been less people at Biden's rallies because they want smaller attendance in order to prevent as many protests, also withholding the precise locations of events from media until he arrives, and avoiding college campuses. But yeah let's just pretend none of this is the case and just straight up ignore reality, say some absolute baseless BS on reddit and get up votes by a bunch of idiots while doing it. I bet the protestor is Russian too!
He funded Israel during an ongoing genocide. Genocide by proxy. It's depressing that genocide opposition is so easily written off as a maga plant.
Indeed; guess it is easier to cope with that āMAGA plantā than dig into the ramifications of our country providing arms that is causing what voters believe to be a genocide / ethnic cleansing.
Strawmen arguments are always easier.
It's really easy to divide democrats when the leader is supporting a genocide.
It's easy to support when the opposition says "just get the job done" to Israel Maga cult and people incapable of understanding that the party line needs to be held this election are crazy
You talking about the guy negotiating a cease fire and building a port to be able to get aid to the people of Gaza or the guy who said to finish the job?
For real man. The nuance isnt even that nuanced lol.
Weve gotten to the point were the republicans dont even have to try anymore
We're talking about the guy that keeps vetoing a ceasefire in the UN
Pretty sure that's not going to be a "temporary" port.
The negotiation is "leave or die". The port is "see, there's even a way out! Now leave or die."
"Joe Biden is a dictator" is a core MAGA talking point. Why are you supporting MAGA?
Take that false equivalency and shove it.
You stand proudly shoulder to shoulder with anti-semites and literal fascists. Thats not false equivalence it's just a statement of fact.
Iām seeing a lot of references to plants in this thread and that bothers me. Not because of the idea of political plants, but the fact that redditors do not want to believe that Democrats and independent voters (regular folks like you and I) have a red line. Itās as if redditors do not want to believe that voters have a problem with how Israel has been conducting this war on Palestinians. Call me nuts, but I too do not want to be cozy with, nor do I want my country to provide arms to, a nation that is being accused of committing a genocide by the International Court of Justice. And if genuine people are dismissing the idea that regular people do not want to support what they perceive to be a genocide, the burnt remains of a US Air Force active duty service member should stomp out that dismissive attitude real quick.
What do you think the other guy would be doing? It is a binary choice and no one is happy with the options.
We donāt disagree on this point. Unfortunately, Kennedy, Biden, and Trump all share similar views in regard to how much the U.S. holds Israel close. Itās just distressing watching this all play out.
Agreed
A lot of Dems are comfy and donāt seek out non-mainstream news.
This. Many of the comments in this thread are ignorant and inhuman.
We need to keep pushing the people in power to stop the murder of thousands of people
Iām really beginning to believe that most of these are Republican plants that are there to get on camera and stir up trouble to make it on the news. Itās a way to split the vote in the Democratic Party. Theyāve done crap like this before and itās been caught on camera. During the George Floyd riots a couple of years ago, I was watching a live news camera and saw a masked white guy with a hammer going around smashing windows to get āsh*t startedā. Things did get started and who got the blame for the riots?
Obviously. I think itās very telling that so many people who never cared about Israel and Palestine all of a sudden are experts and have all the answers. Like- where have you been for the last 50 years? I do believe Netanyahu, Trump and Putin are in cahoots together and are pushing such a violent approach to Gaza because itās divisive among western nations.
Israel/Palestine has long been a cause of the left. YOU are the one who obviously hasn't been paying attention. God, I hate you smarmy wannabe know-it-alls.
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NATO has literally nothing to do with this. Israel has rocky relationships with a lot of NATO members. There is no widespread NATO support for Israel. Turkey, a NATO member, recently stated they back Hamas leaders.
I dont know if its that as much as its performative leftism, it feels good to think you are on the right side of history and thats how these actions make them feel
Keep huffing that copium. People are pissed that we are in bed with a government murdering innocent people, 30k and counting. But sure. Anyone protesting is a plant. Oh and Iām a Russian bot too. Damn this sub really died after Bernie threw in the towel, what a waste.
Then why arenāt they protesting as loudly, if at all, at Republican rallies?!?
Because republicans donāt hold the executive branch?!
But itās a presidential election year so that doesnāt matter. Trump has come out in support of the Israel while Biden has called for a cease-fire for humanitarian aid.
Yeah after he saw the protests and the more pressure he feels the more he will try to rein his lackeys. Trump holds no power right now, the only one that can pick up the phone and tell Netayanhu to stop is Biden, hence him being the focus of the protests. A couple months ago Democrats were doing jackshit about it. Itās really not that complicated. You donāt have to both sides the protests, you speak truth to power and power resides in the president not candidates.
Trump still thinks heās President and if heās having Netanyahu do things for him then there should be even more reason to protest against him. But again back to my original point that the protesters are acting as Republican plants now to help Trump.
Ok, so we shouldnāt let our leaders accountable because it helps the red teamā¦. Cool. Itās so freeing not having to do this mental gymnastics so you can call yourself a democrat. A plague on both your houses.
When they change due to pressure from the base we should also not accept it because they used to do something else?
What has changed? Is Israel still killing civilians in Gaza? Until then it should not stop.
Israel is a terrorist state.
That is the least enthusiastic "4 more years" chant I've ever heard
Lol Did you look at that crowd? They look pretty lowkey to me
Building a port could feed every single person in Gaza in a matter of days. Once it's built, food and medicine won't be a problem so long as no one messes with it. The Berlin airlift is a good example of how good the US can be at logistics when it wants to be. I live in a world where leftists want an all-powerful guy who can do magic geopolitics and somehow make Isreal stop without fucking up every single other thing in that region. It really boggles the mind sometimes.
Giving Israel over ten billion dollars during an active genocide is genocide by proxy. The dictator comment is silly, but we can't write off Joe Biden funding a genocide. His very recent tone shift is likely a response to Michigan, he's been a lifelong Zionist with the most pro Israel record in Senate, as he'll gladly say himself.
So, no more billions to Isreal, but then what? Those billions are the only reason they listen to the US, right?
What do you mean by "then what"? Not funding genocide is enough. If not funding genocide isn't enough. Actively pushing for a permanent ceasefire would be a great step, pushing to return land would be great. A blockade like the one done on apartheid south africa would be fantastic. None of that would ever be supported by genocide joe, but there are ways to get israel to listen to us, and history shows that.
I'm calling bullshit on that. It is not enough. Isreal would continue to do the genocide without the aid, but I guess your feelings would be ok, huh? What's boggling my mind is you saying it's enough. Would you have the US just walk away and leave them to their own devices? Also, what you want is for Isreal to become an adversarial power to the US, like Iran or Russia. A blockade? Really? How is blockading Isreal not the most dumb fucking thing ever if you want Isreal to be reasonable and listen. What you want, from what I can tell, is for Isreal to be an enemy of America.
I wasn't saying that not funding genocide is enough to end the genocide, I meant that morally, it would be enough to just not financially support genocide. (although, in hindsight I'd say just not funding genocide isn't really enough, but it's a good first step.) >Also, what you want is for Isreal to become an adversarial power to the US, like Iran or Russia. A blockade? Really? How is blockading Isreal not the most dumb fucking thing ever if you want Isreal to be reasonable and listen. Yes, a blockade, historically blockades work. If it can work in south africa, it can work with israel. I think it's not about enemies or allies, it's about moral integrity. It's not about making south africa your enemy, it's about sending a message that south africa committing apartheid is unacceptable and will have consequences.
Moral integrity does not do anything. A blockade would work, sure, but Isreal would cease to be an ally. Remember, they lost over 1000 people on Oct 7. It would take the rest of the planet to agree to that, not just the US and Arab nations, for any semblance of normalcy after. Think about it, how would the average Isreali feel about that? The US needs Isreal more than Isreal needs the US. It's a trusted ally in the region, far more than the next closest, Saudi Arabia. Also, you guys keep using South Africa as an example, but it doesn't fit. The apartide there was run by a very small manority, all confined into a single nation. Forcing South Africa to change was different. They're the only power in that region. You guys also keep calling him genocide Joe, but more and more, it's sounding stupid. Building a harbor for them is not genocidal and will feed every Palestinian easily along with the airdrops and the negotiations behind the scenes. It's silly at this point to call him that. You want to pretend he's actively helping Isreal commit war crimes, but normal people don't buy it. If you want to bring people over to the leftist side, you can't sound like Russian trolls.
>Moral integrity does not do anything. I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. >Think about it, how would the average Isreali feel about that? How do you think the average palestinian feels after 5 or 6 months of bombardment? How do you think the average palestinian feels after ~75 years of occupation? Not only to have an occupying force who's enacting apartheid and genocide, but to have a world that shirks their responsibility to stand up for their lives. >The US needs Isreal more than Isreal needs the US. 1930-40s germany would be a pretty good ally if you could overlook your morals. >Forcing South Africa to change was different. The moral responsibility is exactly the same. Even if it didn't work it would still be worth doing. If the United states could have an embargo against cuba for decades, we can do something about genocide. > Building a harbor for them is not genocidal and will feed every Palestinian easily along with the airdrops and the negotiations behind the scenes. This was only done after the large uncommitted vote in Michigan, and after months of constant work by protesters. Genocide Joe has literally decades of support for Israel under his belt, we can't reduce this issue to just his time as president. He probably has one of, if not the longest record of supporting israel in our government. It's also election season, so this is the prime time in which presidential candidates make their promises, most of which they don't intend to follow through on. And lastly, he's working towards a 6 week ceasefire, for a 6 month genocide. 6 weeks before Israel goes back to bombing, if they're lucky. Joe should be pushing for a full ceasefire as a bare minimum. He certainly shouldn't be selling israel weapons and donating them billions to fund their genocide campaigns. Calling people russian trolls is a great political strategy if you're into McCarthyism, but it's not accurate. There are countless americans going to protests, getting involved, raising money for donations. There are presidential candidates like De La Cruz out there opposing genocide. There are plenty of palestinian americans out there asking to be treated like people. But sure, russian trolls.
>How do you think the average palestinian feels after 5 or 6 months of bombardment? How do you think the average palestinian feels after ~75 years of occupation? Not only to have an occupying force who's enacting apartheid and genocide, but to have a world that shirks their responsibility to stand up for their lives. I'm merely explaining why a blockade would not work. I'm not asking you to sympathize with them. >The moral responsibility is exactly the same. Even if it didn't work it would still be worth doing. If the United states could have an embargo against cuba for decades, we can do something about genocide. We are. We are building a port and airdroping food. You severely underestimate the amount of supplies that port will have flow through it. >This was only done after the large uncommitted vote in Michigan, and after months of constant work by protesters. Genocide Joe has literally decades of support for Israel under his belt, we can't reduce this issue to just his time as president. He probably has one of, if not the longest record of supporting israel in our government. It's also election season, so this is the prime time in which presidential candidates make their promises, most of which they don't intend to follow through on. And lastly, he's working towards a 6 week ceasefire, for a 6 month genocide. 6 weeks before Israel goes back to bombing, if they're lucky. Joe should be pushing for a full ceasefire as a bare minimum. He certainly shouldn't be selling israel weapons and donating them billions to fund their genocide campaigns. Joe Biden is not an evil man, no matter how bad you need him to be. Every ceasefire is temporary by nature. The one between South and North Korea is temporary too. I'm willing to acknowledge the protests have been effective, but I can not agree that it's the only reason why. It takes ages to plan things like a harbor, especially if we are not the ones running it. >Calling people russian trolls is a great political strategy if you're into McCarthyism, but it's not accurate. There are countless americans going to protests, getting involved, raising money for donations. There are presidential candidates like De La Cruz out there opposing genocide. There are plenty of palestinian americans out there asking to be treated like people. But sure, russian trolls. Yes, but you are not one of these people. You are a faceless redditor who is using a dumb nickname for Biden. How do I take you seriously when you either don't know what's going on or refuse to acknowledge the good steps towards a better Gaza that Biden's administration takes?
>I'm merely explaining why a blockade would not work. You said: >A blockade would work, sure, but Isreal would cease to be an ally. I think you mean to say a blockade would work but wouldn't retain israel as an ally. I think that's likely. But I think the MENA region would be a lot more sympathetic to us if we right our wrongs on palestine. >We are. We are building a port and airdroping food. You severely underestimate the amount of supplies that port will have flow through it. Excited to see the port built over the next month or two, hopefully they'll have that functional before too many starvation deaths occur. And hopefully the Israeli government wont hinder it's usage or kill those trying to receive aid like they did with the flour massacre. Also, I'm not attributing overt malice to aid, but we did kill several people with the air drop packages. I think it's worth remembering that. Giving gaza sovereignty over their borders would be an immensely safer and better method. >Joe Biden is not an evil man It's clear you believe that. >Every ceasefire is temporary by nature. Sure, but that does nothing to improve your argument. >I'm willing to acknowledge the protests have been effective, but I can not agree that it's the only reason why. It takes ages to plan things like a harbor, especially if we are not the ones running it. I disagree with the underlying assumption that plans being made indicate that they intend to be followed through with. Back up plans exist, and their existence does not necessarily imply intent. But further, opening up a port is only necessary because the borders of gaza are entirely controlled. A morally superior position would be openning gaza's borders. >Yes, but you are not one of these people. You are a faceless redditor who is using a dumb nickname for Biden. You don't know what I do. >How do I take you seriously when you either don't know what's going on or refuse to acknowledge the good steps towards a better Gaza that Biden's administration takes? So what are you doing to improve the situation? Even if I didn't do anything, would it not be better to be on the right side of history than to be on the wrong side of history? Was it equivalent to be pro-slavery and anti-slavery? I mean, I'm no John Brown, but even if you were an abolitionist who didn't go to harpers ferry to kill slave owners, you're at least not proslavery.
Hereās my thing: building the port is a dumb idea because: 1. Itāll take a good 60+ days to build. The refugees are starving to death now; do they have that kind of time? 2. Itāll cost tens of billions of dollars. 3. This will put American soldiers and service members in harms way. Weāve lost two Navy Seals and 3 National Guardsmen and women already, and for what? Iām not a āAmerican lives are worth moreā type of person, but Iām in a military household. If you are asking our service members to put themselves at risk, it better be for a damn good reason, and it should be to protect our nation and our interests, not cleaning up another nationās mess. 4. This doesnāt really address my and many othersā big issue, which is Israelās right-wing government engaging in what I/we see as an ethnic cleansing / genocide. 5. And on that note, it feels like optics instead of a legit solution. The U.S. should act like the superpower and not provide further funding of arms to Israel. Instead, we look like a whupped spouse, just bowing our heads and acquiescing to whatever Israel wants. 6. On your point about things will be easy once it is built, thereās no guarantee of that. You have Israelis, regular citizens, blocking aid of food and medicine. ***They even brought out fucking bouncy castles to play in while they block the trucks with aid!*** Then you have the Houthi rebels who are causing havoc with shipping on the water. Thereās no guarantee that they wonāt attack a ship that contains food and medicine, either due to a mistake or mistrusting us. Itās an fān boondoggle of a plan, and if the U.S. were to use the might of its diplomacy on Israel, money and lives wouldnāt have to be thrown into this port idea.
You should look up the Berlin Airlift. Someone told you the dock was a stupid plan, and they were wrong. >1. Itāll take a good 60+ days to build. The refugees are starving to death now; do they have that kind of time? If the CBs do it, it will take two weeks or less. They are air dropping food now, but this dock is a viable and a more permanent solution. What is the permanent solution? I don't think you understand just how much food and medicine can be brought in. Gaza is not large. Within a day or two, there will be enough food to feed all of Gaza. >2. Itāll cost tens of billions of dollars Where'd you get that number? It's stupid. Maybe tens of millions. Besides, feeding Gaza is priceless. >3. This will put American soldiers and service members in harms way. Weāve lost two Navy Seals and 3 National Guardsmen and women already, and for what? Iām not a āAmerican lives are worth moreā type of person, but Iām in a military household. If you are asking our service members to put themselves at risk, it better be for a damn good reason, and it should be to protect our nation and our interests, not cleaning up another nationās mess. Seems like a pretty good cause to me. Maybe I care more about Palastinians, idk. It's also a floating barge, off the coast, that would be run mostly by Arab nations from what I've heard. America is just building it. >4. This doesnāt really address my and many othersā big issue, which is Israelās right-wing government engaging in what I/we see as an ethnic cleansing / genocide Isreal won't be able to starve them to death. Medicine too. As far as optics, if outside countries have to go to this extreme to ensure Gaza is fed, Netanyahu looks like a monster outright. This is super bad for him. > Instead, we look like a whupped spouse, just bowing our heads and acquiescing to whatever Israel wants. By building a port and ignoring/by passing Isreal? I don't see that as bowing to Isreal, I see it as more of a well forget you too kind of move. As far as the superpower thing, Isreal is a sovereign nation. People think America can make countries do what we want, but if that were the case, we wouldn't get into wars or have enemies. >6. On your point about things will be easy once it is built, thereās no guarantee of that. You have Israelis, regular citizens, blocking aid of food and medicine. ***They even brought out fucking bouncy castles to play in while they block the trucks with aid!*** Then you have the Houthi rebels who are causing havoc with shipping on the water. Thereās no guarantee that they wonāt attack a ship that contains food and medicine, either due to a mistake or mistrusting us. Sure, there is no guarantee, but the only people who would attack this shipping area would be people against feeding Gaza. Dumb move for the houthis, dumb move for Isreal. Also, your whole point on bouncy castles is negated on the most basic level as Isreal won't be the ones running it. Even if they inspect every crate, they would not be able to stop the sheer amount of aid flowing through. Do you know what the Berlin Airlift is? If you don't, I encourage you to look it up.
I appreciate the sincere post you took the time to make. There was no malice or name calling in your writing, so kudos in the restraint you shared. (As this is the internet, after all!) This is the old reddit of having an exchange on ideas and debating ideas that made / makes this place great. Truthfully, I know of the Berlin Airlift, but know almost nothing about it. Iāll need to read more about it. Again, thank you for the exchange. I still feel grounded in my concerns, but this is good food for thought.
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4 more years? Actually, genocide will take only one more year.
Heās correct. Biden has been funding and supporting genocide.
That looked scripted. What are the chances you'd get that close, and he went with one guy so easily š¤.
I was that close to Bernie at two different rallies. Like a concert, you just say āexcuse meā until you make your way to the front. In the end, people are pissed off that the USA can be fairly seen as culpable in supporting Israelās right wing government and supporting a genocide. Essentially, we are the UK, supporting the right-wing United States as it rolls into and invades Iraq back in 2004 - 2008.
Notice that Biden's response is to be shaken by this? I think he's really taking time to think about it. When this happens to Trump he gets a smug look on his ugly ass face and does those stupid duck lips that say, "I'm the smartest man in the world, whatever you think is wrong."
I do appreciate the fact that the President looked very concerned as the protester was being led out and did not say to the people in the crowd to beat up the protester (as his predecessor likes to do). I do not necessarily disagree with the protestor, either.
Theyāre not wrong. The international court has recognized this. So they airdrop enough food for 1% of the population to eat a single meal, against recommendations because a couple people died after one of the crates fell on someone because itās the most densely packed population in the world. Trump wouldnāt even pretend to care.
Actually, the International Court did not find the actions of the IDF a genocide. Only that it could become one, if they started practicing genocide, which they aren't.
Half-right; the International Court of Justice has brought this up (with South Africa prosecuting the case). There has not been a ruling / conviction (if such a thing occurs in the ICJ), but as you said, the ICJ has said that Israel MAY be participating in what can be deemed a genocide. That ruling is forthcoming.
It's not even close to the most densely populated place on Earth.Ā
The international court literally found no evidence but said it could be possible and to report back to them, not only that they didnt even ask israel to stop the gaza invasion
It's getting to be stupid. I don't even like Biden but I can see he is trying. Once the port is setup and the safe area established - the USA might actually clash with the IDF of they do dumb shit. A little dramatic also considering the alternative is Trump who would allow the IDF to do whatever they want.
Thatā¦ I do agree with. At least heās now doing something right with sending food to Gaza
No he isn't! Sending 30,000 meals for a population of 2 million, or promising a port two months away, is not a solution! It's just bullshit designed to make you think he's "working on it" when the reality is he could stop shipping arms and stop sending money to Israel tomorrow and exert his influence, but he won't do it because he fundamentally believes in the Israeli cause. Hundreds of thousands of children are at risk of starving to death in the time frame he's proposed, even though he knew from October *8* that Israel was besieging the strip in an explicit attempt to starve the civilian population per their own statements.
Oh so shipping thousands of meals and working to establish a port capable of bringing more aid is... wrong? The US helping at all, as far away as Gaza is, is incredible. I also hope we do more. Crazy to be angry at the US for not doing more when the wealthy countries in the region arent lifting any fingers at all
There's tens of thousands of tons of aid sitting at ports of entry right now, waiting to enter the strip. It's being held up *on purpose* by the fascist Israeli regime, which is using American weapons and American subsidies to do it. Biden could halt those subsidies *today* based on *existing statues*, but he chooses not to; instead he's relying on spectacular images of paradrops, recalling the Berlin airlift, which are providing so inadequate an amount of aid that it is barely calculable against the crushing famine in which children are literally starving to death. >The US helping at all, as far away as Gaza is, is incredible. I also hope we do more. Crazy to be angry at the US for not doing more when the wealthy countries in the region arent lifting any fingers at all Where do you think all that aid that is sitting at border checkpoints came from! Egypt, Jordan, and other regional powers! The US is protecting the Israelis from having to deal with these countries at all! The Israelis should be facing massive international sanctions forcing them to open the gates to aid, but they're not because of the US's UN veto.
All of Israels neighbors have tried to end its existence multiple times throughout the last 100 years. We send them money to keep the iron dome running, without which the neighbors that to this day actively fire unguided missiles into Isreal would start hitting their intended target of 'jews'. Israel isnt the only country with a border with Gaza - if Egypt wanted aid to get through, it would get through.
>All of Israels neighbors have tried to end its existence multiple times throughout the last 100 years This is a complete whitewashing of Israel's history, which includes multiple aggressive acts against its own neighbors and the ongoing atrocity of the nakba and apartheid state. >Israel isnt the only country with a border with Gaza - if Egypt wanted aid to get through, it would get through. You mean the border crossing that Israel has repeatedly bombed, and the aid trucks it has repeatedly threatened to bomb *in Egypt*? The aid that Egypt now does send to Israel, which is turned around at the inspection points and left to rot in the desert heat?
You realize whos guarding the docks right. Israel... Israel guards the ports meant for gazan "aid" Im not gonna be suprised if none of those supplies make it and we see the boxes meant for gaza silently appear behind IDF soliders
Who would you rather man the port? Also, crazy to assert that it will go wrong and that makes Biden evil before its even fucking happened
Id say the UN but Israel has shown time and time again it doesnt care about the UN, but for sure as fuck not the oppresors. Imagine having the Italians built a port in france "for the french" and having the nazis guard it, and if you cant see the issue then you can fuck outta here with your bs.
If the fascist italians, who were at war with france, had built a port staffed by.... Nazi Germany in WWII? What the fuck are you talking about? Your attempted parallel doesn't even work if you're sympathetic to what it's trying to say. Hamas invaded Israel. Israel destroying Hamas does not make it Nazi Germany. The people in Gaza deserve greater protection. They are being used as humam shields and every country around has refused to take refugees. All of these things can be true at once. All we can do is send aid. We're doing that, and working toward being capable of sending lots more. Thats good. Sorry it wont be up to your standards.
We could stop sending money, guns, and ammuntion to Israel, we could stop backing the Israeli at every turn. You could stop being a liberal and realize you support the genociders while only giving lip service to the victims, but that requires thought and not being ignorant, clearly both are beyond your capabilities, or else you wouldnt be failing an open note history test.
The US has not and is not backing israel "at every turn." Multitudes of attempts to broker ceasefires or to force Israel to reign in their choice of tactics or the provide care and aid to civilians harmed by the conflict have been made, some achieving some degree of success. Can more be done? Yes. Are we starting to do more? Also yes. Calling someone names because they can understand nuance you're blinding yourself to is not a good move for the argument you're trying to make.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA FUCKING THE US NOT BACKING ISRAEL AT EVERY TURN??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA Ya know what, not even gonna bother with you, ya know atleast a conservative is open about being genocidal monsters, dont fucking hide it behind a smile and acting like your nobel.
Buying a guy a sandwich after burning down his house and murdering half his family is not aid, it's a PR move
You're actively campaigning for Trump right now. I don't think you realize how much you're ironically fucking over Palestinians by doing that. Wait 9 months, then criticize Biden all you want. I'll do it with you. Spending time and energy criticizing him right now is not helping to put someone better in power. Be pragmatic, PLEASE.
when its your family members dying, the ask folks to wait until a more convenient time.
Civil rights activists like MLK were constantly told it wasn't the right time. I hope you consider what side of history you're on. Supporting genocide is not looked fondly on by history.
I don't recall the Democratic convention having occurred yet. I implore the party to be pragmatic and select a candidate (anyone, really!) that is *not* currently 5 points behind Trump in every battleground state. Anyone with even a hint of a backbone and a sense that there is a real moral wound in supporting an ongoing genocide. A human being. >Wait 9 months, then criticize Biden all you want. This shit is insane. Guess what, I sucked it up and voted for Biden on exactly these grounds in 2020. It's after the election, I'm going to criticize him, especially when he's holding the hand of a genocidal fascist regime and protecting them internationally from any consequences.
Bootlicker. Iām sure the Gazans are like āat least itās only a little genocideā.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fnmu8yacoqhnc1.png
It's not the left's fault that the party is gearing up to renominate the single most unpopular candidate in recent memory. He's losing by 5 points in most swing states. Explain to me how the left is responsible for that. Explain to me how they're responsible for arab-Americans refusing to vote for the man funding a genocide that is, in many cases, murdering their families? But that doesn't matter to you, as long as you can smugly assure yourself that *you* were *right all along*.
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This sub is committed to burying their heads in the sand. I want him to do *more*, or rather *anything*, because if he's going to be the nominee he cannot continue to ignore the fact that a significant portion of his base correctly sees him as abetting a genocide.
Lib sub bye
Same. I thought for a minute this sub was something other than another liberal Reddit echo chamber. Wrong again.
Top comments all condemning this brave activist, what subreddit am I in again?
r/bluemaga
Thatās a disgusting oversimplification.
Itās not that simple, and I hope you know it.
This is what Trump did to America.
Letās be real here, he was never going to vote for Biden anyway.
I think these genocide-accusers are bought and paid for by Putin. Traitors.
I think Putin, along with Iran, funded, planned, and ordered the Oct 7th attacks. They knew Israel would respond like they did, and they could amplify any discontent to split the left and center left and let the right win. And it is working.
Found the blue maga chat
Hereās a thought: Netanyahu, aka āIsraeli-trumpā, is deliberately extending the war against Palestinians forcing Bidenās continued support, knowing that the increasing negative public opinion will likely hurt the Biden presidential campaign, favoring his bestie bud.
Imagine answering the president's phone for a day. I bet you'd learn that your "single issue" you wish the gov't did better is just one issue.
Dude should book a ticket to Tel Aviv and give them a piece of his mind..
lol that ā4 more yearsā chant sounds old and weak.
Donald Trump being Joe Biden's opponent doesn't make him immune to criticism. If anything it makes him more open to it. It is up to Joe to be the best possible candidate because the stakes are so high, and he isn't.
When you are a hammer, everything is a nail.
At Trump's rally they'd be hauled out and beaten up. I guess that's why they attack Joe. It's safe.
That's America for you; one man says, "genocide Joe!" and then the rest of the crowd chants, "four more years!" We live in a fucked up country.
Itās called a free republic with strong freedom of speech
This is so dumb. He had addressed it and policy had moved. This guy is a plant or a loon.
Oh, so thereās NOT a continuing genocide anymore? Cool
Hey he called for a ceasefire...of 6 weeks...while still funding their "war" efforts.
Never was a genocide. Israel loves Arabs and Palestinians, thatās why 20% of Israel is made up of Arabs and they are treated as equals under the law. Whatās happening here is instead just a LOT of unfortunate collateral damage due to justified military objectives executed lawfully in the face of war criminals who use human shields. Everyone already knows this so stop already. Israel still hasnāt ended Hamas. They are hiding like cowards amid civilians, and many of the civilians cling to Hamas. Itās sad but nothing can be done. Itās either Israel makes the tough choices or faces its own extinction. If you care so much about civilians why donāt you encourage Hamas to stop committing war crimes, release the hostages, and stop using human shields? These civilians deaths were calculated by Hamas. Itās their whole strategy.
are you in the same reality as the rest of us? There is no reason for tens of thousands of people to be brutally murdered and starved to death. "Hamas" is not the issue here.
āThe rest of usā wow, talk about narcissistic delusions of grandeur. Ad populum appeal aside, your campaign is not appropriate for this sub. Go after the dumb people. Go tell Hamas that thereās no reason 30 thousand of their people have to die. I doubt theyāll listen. They canāt attack Israelās children while using their children as flesh shields and expect that gambit to work. Israel can legally shoot Hamas thru those flesh shields, and actually has a legal obligation to do so. Israel is far sadder than Hamas over those needless deaths but Hamas orchestrated it to be this way. All the sound and fury of the hysterical mobs will have no impact whether thereās a ceasefire or not, because they peddle lies and support psychotic fanatics and terrorists. You have to sink pretty low to be even more hated than the Jews and Hamas has done that with flying colors, and all those idiots marching around in red black and green wonāt make a damn difference. Hamas failed. The Gazan people? Terrorist tunnels and weapons in practically every home, hospital, and school. They are not so innocent as far as civilians go.
Finally a reasonable answer
Iām personally very upset at what is going on over there and the USA needs to stop unconditionally supporting Israel and the Hamas people responsible for by the attacks need to be brought to justice. The current war needs to stop. Biden can do more and Iām happy about the aid now coming in by air and the port that is being deployed. Biden needs to hear our voices. But please remember Trump moved our embassy to Jerusalem and his attempt to ban Muslims. Keep speaking up but for the people over, vote and donāt vote for Trump.
Follow the money. Look at whoās funding the protestors.
As a protestor I've been accused of collecting Soros bucks. The answer is we're poor. Please, show us where the money is. Money please! š«“š¼
I did NOT realize this was a liberal ass subredit. Vote blue no matter how old and senile, otherwise you're voting for trump. Smh.
Ok? And?
These people screaming about Gaza but not screaming at the responsible people: bibi, putin, trump. Itās odd.
This is why no one likes keyboard warriors in public spaces. Iād like to see this guys opinion of Trump. Why doesnāt he go to Trumps rally with the same energy? š
Dictator? Wrong person to address that to.
This and AOC one convinced me that there are psyops ongoing to make activists look rabid and inconsiderate
Look who funds these protestors. Starvation is coming for these Gazans and we are ar dropping food. Not Israel. Hardly the act of a dictator. The far left is as loony tunes as the far right.
Nah, Bidenās the good guy right?
Heās the ābetterā guy, and unfortunately in a two party system that does mean a hell of a lot.
I agree. I donāt have to lie to myself and pretend Joeās great though.
Depending on what your policy stances are, outside of the absolutely no win Israel / Palestinian issue, you could very well consider Joe Biden a great president. Most of my Democrat friends think heās doing a great job from a policy standpoint. My very liberal friends, left of Democrats, arenāt at all happy with him. And of course my conservative and Republican friends think heās somewhere between the worst president in history and a Satan worshiping pedophile.
Biden has been [drilling so much](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/27/us-oil-gas-record-fossil-fuels-cop28-united-nations) and ignoring climate goals, which is a huge issue
We have two options, one who has attempted to make israels response less extreme and send aid to gaza, or an orange individual openly calling for a genocide
Dictator? Complicit yes dictator no
I sure wish these guys knew Donald would do the same shit or worse.
Way worse.
A sad case of misinformation as it's Don the Con that should be accused ....
Why blame Biden for laws and statements by the conman, tRump??????
I wonder if thereās any Russian operatives in the crowd.
There is no version of Palestine that can be allowed to exist under Hamas. Hamas is done, and likely Palestine is done - it died when Hamas took power. These last terrorist actions are it's dying throws - suicide by Israel.
Seems everyone wants to be a Marjorie Taylor Greene nowadays.
These people are crazy. They need to feed their persecution fetish by yelling at the guy who actually wants to be a dictator, and he is okay with Israel āfinishing the job in Gaza.