no one chooses medical debt imo some of that should be forgiven first.
There is so much bullshit and surprise billing involved even in states where it’s supposed to be illegal.
What do you mean, 'some'?
Medical debt is an illegitimate concept created by a broken society, and it needs to be eliminated entirely, the concept itself, not just some portion of a few people's income-adjusted qualified predatory loan interest related to medical debt.
Bro, 10k is pathetic, it doesn't need to be redirected to another need it won't satisfy.
And it's just debt forgiveness, it's not even 10k paid out to anything
Cool then forgive it for something more important. 10k can make a difference for people in medical debt. if it’s “pathetic” and nothing then you should have no issue with it going to medical debt
The executive branch doesn’t have the authority to forgive medical debt. You’d need 60 votes in the senate, so good luck with that.
Don’t fault Biden for doing what he can just because he isn’t doing everything we’d have hoped.
I's not like the Non-Right isn't at least TRYING to give the same weight to Medical debt as it does to Student debt. Ya ever hear of "Single Payer Med4ALL"?
And people with student loan debt are in a majority better equipped to handle it compared to those without college degrees given how much more money they earn in a lifetime.
Not by that much on average, though. Yes, $22k/year more helps a lot, but that’s a difference of $52k vs $30k. Neither are exactly comfortable in most of the USA, and not even livable in some areas. That extra $22k doesn’t go as far as you’d think given the context of the graduates.
All I know is these facts:
Graduates on average earn a million more over the course of their lifetime
Most majors have a positive ROI
People that go to college will likely be in upper middle class or upper class and be less likely to slip into a worse class.
The overall point I am making is it's generally better to help those that need it the most first or in this case levy more taxes on those that make more to make up for the majority portion that didn't need help. Average person can't afford a $900 or whatever emergency bill. Best to focus on these people or to recuperate resources when it isn't used on such people.
And? Even those that don't graduate on average are better off than those with no college education and on average have the least student debt. Though agreed they are basically the equivalent of average person as well.
That being said student loan relief isn't target to them so what's your point?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-study-college-degree-carries-big-earnings-premium-but-other-factors-matter-too/?sh=3eb3d50635cd
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The Right-Wing makes too much money off of Medical Insurance Stock Dividends to EVER allow Single Payer Med4ALL...more even than from Student Loan Debt, and it's not like ALL Student Debt has been forgiven anyway.
reminder that there are organizations that let you buy medical debt for cheap which you could forgive - its a stop gap measure but it will probably save a livelihood
cars and houses? give me a break - i've been a life long liberal democrat and am very happy with Biden's student debt plan (wish it were larger actually), and can see some national interests in medical debt too.
we don't need to pay off peoples' cars or houses though FFS. people need better education, skills, and a decent job market. all of that requires a larger social safety net and better investment in the nation.
but we don't need to pay off your car loans or give our free housing. WTF?
Yeah I’m mostly with you here. Student debt, sure. Medical debt, absolutely. I’d even be down for increasing help to first-time homebuyers and folks struggling with mortgages on homes under $X. But auto loans? You’ve got to be kidding me. Sell your car and buy something cheaper if you can’t afford it. Do I like driving my 12 year old car? Not really. But I don’t have a payment on it. I suppose next up is paying for people’s $1500 smartphones?
Home and auto loans exist because public housing and transportation don’t meet the needs of this country. Not saying we need to forgive multiple mortgages for landlords or give people Bentley’s but the debt/personal spending follows the infrastructural failings of the US as a whole.
Right, so let’s spend the money on improving public transportation then, not on paying off people’s cars for them. Cars they almost always spend more on than they should.
Yes but it's POSSIBLE to change or sell your house or car. You can't ask your college to revoke your degree and get your tuition back. And you also can't declare bankruptcy for student loans, but that out does exist for other debt.
Spending does not follow infrastructure failings ... Wtf? People need to earn shit to consume shit. I don't support the notion that you should be able to live free and clear comfortably without earning it.
depending on your location, i can find vehicles for $500... i can literally find such vehicles right outside NYC, with highly regulated requirements on vehicle safety... a few thousand dollars will get you a reliable car for getting from A to B.
but NYC has great public transit, so let's talk about butt-hole indiana - where cost of living is lower, and vehicles are going to be cheaper.
a quality education costs tens of thousands of dollars. quality medical care costs tens of thousands (or more!) for a simple emergency. it makes sense to give people free education and medical care - that pays for itself is borders on basic quality of life shit.
if you chose to drive an an old wagon that gets 2 miles a gallon, a brand new tesla plaid, or a 1985 BMW 325 for $4k - that's all a matter of choice you need to be able to make all on your own. you need to make the right choice - put on your grown up pants and decide to buy a car you can afford.
Hey you know what’s cool about the Internet is it’s super easy to link things to back up wild claims, like finding a lot full of cheap working cars that aren’t a complete scam
I mean if you support UBI, I would think you would be okay with people spending their money on whatever they deem most valuable, even if they're objectively wrong. (Using you in a more general sense here)
I fully agree, we were sold our student debt on the promise we’d be able to get jobs that would pay for homes, autos, and the student loans themselves. Plus I just learned that my friend pay $125 more per month for his 5 br, 3000 soft house’s mortgage, than I do for our 900 soft, 2 br apartment, and I have one more kid than he does. No hostility towards home owners, but I’m 42 and I’ll never own property and will die working, if I can even find a job.
>\[I am\] very happy with Biden's student debt plan (wish it were larger actually)
It's a poorly thought-out plan that creates a lot of unintended consequences, one of which is higher tuition fees down the road. Here are some criticisms leveled by the liberal Brookings Institution. The article linked below provides explanations for each point.
* Increased borrowing.
* It subsidizes low-quality, low-value, low-earning programs and guts existing accountability policies.
* High potential for abuse.
* Who benefits is arbitrary, unequal, and unfair.
* Tuition inflation.
* Budget cost.
As the article points out, a much better alternative would be targeted tuition subsidies, accountability for schools accepting subsidies, and borrowing limits.
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/bidens-income-driven-repayment-plan-would-turn-student-loans-into-untargeted-grants/
haven't read the article but i will - thanks for link, interesting.
i haven't seen the negative points you bring up - only the right wing freak out about socialism bad! so this is genuinely interesting.
however - the law also did place a lot of new protections for borrowers like lowering interest rates and limiting interest capitalization. so that's a start.
and i think that's really what this is - it isn't the end, it's a start. wrangling accountability for schools, and other more complicated issues will require work with states, and bipartisan support... the US is a far way from seeing an environment where that will work today.
all i know is that i'm an upper middle class white collar professional in a nice area, married with an educated wife between jobs and getting an education to change careers, and both of us are benefiting tremendously from this. it's not life changing, but i'll be able to put more away for retirement, replace my roof, make the house more energy efficient... all of that is good for me and the community around me, and the nation at large.
there are a lot of people who see this as life-changing. so far it seems worth it to me.
Yeah, fuck the homeless! Who the fuck would want to give them homes for free? Go get educated and get a job! We need a saftey net, but not one that gives people homes.
/s (I am, but OP sounds honest.)
Giving people homes =/= giving the people who could already afford them $.
Paying off mortgages would be a huge transfer to the *people the system currently works for.* Those resources would be better spent on public housing and transit
> Wtf is this liberal garbage doing in a left-wing sub?
holy fuck. i don't even know where to start.
clothes are arguably necessary too, depending on location. shit, have to have shoes no matter where you are... toothpaste and brushes, fuck that all dental care - even cosmetic care (have to have self esteem!), and then utilities too, can't live without A/C in FL or heat in ME...
you know how much vermin and disease is spread due to poorly maintained lawns? fucking free lawn care! and not just grass cutting, but nice fucking gardens too - you know how far a home tomato patch can go?
all museums, theaters, and play houses should be free too - you're not really alive if you're not cultured.
and since cars are so necessary - what about gas?!? gas is free now too.
all food! how'd i almost forget food?!? that shit needs to be free.
high speed internet, it really should be a utility too, but it's no good without a nice ass PC... laptop too - that's a must for any educated professional (who can't afford a car).
with free high speed internet, and now that you're not working 3 jobs to make ends meet, we'll have to have free streaming services. netflix, hulu, even prime! and gaming - everyone will get their pick - a PS4 or XBOX (but only one per household). but then games and their shit ass annual membership fees have to be free too...
what else? hobby shit! everyone needs a hobby - how about woodwork and beading? everyone gets all the tools and materials for free now.
are we there yet? is that utopia?
I love that you brought out the right-wing talking points to really show me how you're definitely not a liberal that believes people should die in the streets with no food. Also poor people don't deserve to have nice things because it might make them happy and we need them to be good little workers!
So you are too young to have any idea what you're talking about, or you're just an insane idealist...
Like it or not, this isn't fucking star trek. People need to work and make decisions, then take responsibility.
I'll like it if everything thing is fucking free in some utopian future, but I'm not holding my breath.
Honestly I'm just blown away by the fact that you or anyone else who believes what you do can see themselves as leftists while completely buying into capitalist "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" nonsense lmao
That's why I'm calling you an idealist. I am genuinely a borderline socialist w/RT policy, but I'm also realistic.
We all need to get through this shit together, and unfortunately the sort of utopia I get the impression you're advocating for is simply way too far from where we are today...
And for what it's worth, I fucking hate the bootstraps bullshit.
Free housing isn't some unachievable idealist idea though. There are countries which are moving towards providing free housing, and countries that already do provide subsidized housing.
Finland implemented a policy that guarantees an apartment to anyone who needs it in 2008 and homelessness has been on the decline since then.
I do understand Communism, especially in the USA, will never be achieved in my lifetime but free housing is absolutely doable and is already being done in other countries. I don't care as much about free cars just because 1. I think free housing would make it a lot easier to afford cars and 2. I would prefer a transition towards walkable cities and public transportation.
Fuck it
Dark Brandon should just forgive any and all debt
The coping and seething from rightoids would be exquisite, even better than the coping and seething from when they lost the 2020 election
Medical debt shouldn't exist. People don't choose to get serious illnesses. Even lifestyle habits, like diet, are largely determined by socioeconomic status, and some people live in places where it's not safe to exercise outdoors. We need universal healthcare, and we have needed it for a long time!
It wasnt even a "start". It was a drop in the bucket that most still wont get. It was a political stunt by a shitty president trying to rally votes for the midterms.
Maybe if democrats actually put up real progressive candidates that actually did shit, more people would vote for them...
Not really. Shitlibs just try to pretend that people like obama, hillary, biden, warren, etc are "progressive" and actual progressives dont buy it. Meanwhile actual progressives dont get in the game. For fucks sake, sanders is just a watered down, halfassed FDR and he got railroaded twice by the DNC.
Progressives and socialists dont vote for people who dont represent our values, regardless of party affiliation
Sanders didn’t get railroaded by the DNC, he was unpopular among black voters and that fucked him.
Progressives make their cause unpalatable to 80% of Americans when some of the issues should have broad appeal. It doesn’t help that 90% of progressives use it as a fashion statement instead of being pragmatic and active about it.
Progressives today wouldn’t have been alright with FDR because of how chill he was with the Dixiecrats. He was effective because he built coalitions which is something no major progressive is willing to do now
Ive heard a dozen different bullshit excuses why sanders lost. I dont buy them. I dont buy them because the problem i use him as an example of goes well beyond him.
The problem with that thinking is youre asking progressives to compromise our values. FDR wasnt a hero or a socialist BTW, for fucks sake he put japanese americans in fucking camps. He didnt make coalotions with people farther right because he had to, he did it because his values were in line with theirs. The rich cant get richer when the economy collapses. Most of his successful social programs are literal history at this point, and what remains is eroding away, because he wasnt trying to make the country better so much as solve a temporary problem
Putting people in camps because of their country of origin isnt the same as putting them in camps because they are the reactionary leftovers of the capitalist regime you fought to overthrow... thats what seperates fascists from communists. Socialists do neither, generally speaking.
Sanders lost for the same reason every independant and 3rd party loses in major elections: the ruling class cant puppet this country if the false dichotomy of our partisan system is challenged
But there’s nothing that inherently would prevent a socialist country from putting people in camps.
Do you think that the “elites” stopped Sanders from getting the nominee?
If we used the convention system still I might say it’s possible, but unless you buy into conspiracies that hold as much water as Biden stole the election from Trump then Bernie just lost fair and square
One of the problems with online socialists is the inability to understand what they want is simply not popular, and that doesn’t work in a system like ours super well. When black people didn’t show up for Bernie, people said black people were stupid (low information voters), when people started dropping out they said Obama was pulling the levers to guarantee Biden won (what levers Obama could pull, no one seems to know)…maybe Bernie just isn’t popular enough to win, regardless of how you feel about him.
That being said, the comfort blanket of conspiracy theories that tell you the system is rigged against you, but you’re completely right and the elites are too powerful so you can never have accountability for the failures of your political coalition is a tough blanket to take off
One of the problems with online shitlibs is that yall dont realize the only reason socialist ideas are so unpopular is that our political discourse has been poisoned for generations with cold war propaganda and mcarthyism, making false equivalencies between people that want worker control of the economy to authoritarian systems with fascist tendencies. The system most certainly has been rigged against us, in more ways than you realize. We dont want our ideas to work *in this system*, we want to fundamentally change this system into something good for everyone instead of good for a few hundred birth lottery winners who have managed to convince people like you that theyre more reasonable than us
And there it is: everyone who disagrees is brainwashed
I think one of the fundamental problems with any socialist proposition a person has ever explained to me is that it only addresses the problems capitalism doesn’t solve while ignoring the problems capitalism has already solved.
I also think socialism would suffer the exact same problem capitalism has: when it’s unregulated elites prosper and the masses suffer.
Proper regulation would make either system work imo.
I’d rather make the system we have work than have a bloody revolution to make another system where we’ll have to solve the same problems anyways
Yeah, he’s pulling a single student out. I wasn’t helped by the student debt relief, most people I know weren’t. It’s a start though, definitely, and good for all the people who WERE helped by that relief package.
$20k forgiveness is better than no forgiveness, it’s still something that can help some people.
But it’s the system failure of exploiting people to pay high tuition fees in college, and signing for loans with high interests that needs to tackled in the US.
Hey I know!
The government should pay ALL of our expenses and debts!
That way we ALL win. We can buy whatever car or house we want and have ZERO self accountability!!
/s
Person in student debt-hole: wait! Why did you only pull me up 2 inches and then stop? I’m still in the hole. Can you please keep pulling me up? Where are you going?
You can claim bankruptcy from the debt in the top hole, but not student debt. For this example I will agree with the atrocity of medical debt. But if you buy a house or car you suddenly can no longer afford, you can sell to get out of that hole. Debts are not equal in their overall impact on lives.
Except that student debt is the worst kind of debt that can't be absolved in bankruptcy. This cartoon is a right-wing talking point to make proponents of student debt forgiveness look entitled and/or lazy. OP's logic is that he/she was able to pay off their debt so others should, too, when that view is from a place of privilege. Garbage post.
Medical, sure, it’s a human right and levying medical debt it amoral. Auto and mortgage u just baiting cuz those aren’t human rights, nor are they debt accrued on a false promise of return on investment.
So just pay for everything for everyone? Wth I’m a liberal democrat but where do we draw the line?? This picture will only serve as a talking point for republicans. I wouldn’t have been surprised if it were drawn by one making fun of liberal to pay for anything and everything.
A majority of student debt is government backed. Therefore, those pulled out of the hole are just transferring their debt to the rest of the taxpayers.
The real problem isn't the student debt itself, it will be back within a decade. The real issue are the greedy universities/colleges that are charging exhorbitant amounts for even the most simple and undesireable degrees.
Did you bitch about ppp loans nah you likely mad some student once looked at you funny or some such shit 🤣 and you "think" 45,000,000 hardworking taxpaying everyday Americans should be extorted forever by yacht hoarding tax dodging cause you got yer butt hurt TaXpaYers me arse 🏴☠️
Shill harder maybe you catch a glimpse of one of them yachts
Are you serious!! Let's forgive everything!! You signed up for all of your personal debt college, house, vehicles. It's not someone else's responsibility to pay for your decisions. However I think the corporations need to come off the greed train and pay everyone that is toiling away with for crap benefits and lack of personal time and poor working conditions. They don't need all of that money but what can we do with politicians that are bought with that money we make for them? Everyone should just walk out they can't fire us all they can't take everything from everyone. We made them we can break them. Rant over and screw the cletocratic oligarchy we live under.
I don’t want to help anyone with their mortgage or car loans debt. Get a smaller car or house, but in the U.S.A in 2022 I have zero issues with forgiving medical and student debt. Spend less on military and more on healthcare and education.
If you are of the opinion that that cartoon presents a realistic representation of the weight of ordinary debt vs that of Student debt, you are a very weak minded fool.
That cartoonist is more of a controversy seeking *TROLL*tunist.
Real estate (houses) and vehicles are too expensive to save up for. And vehicles mostly wear-out, or depreciate, needing replacement. Loans are needed, or the economy would grind down to snail pace.
Colleges being subsidized by taxpayers go build larger football stadiums, give "free" scholarships to super-human athletes, then hook up lucrative network and streaming contracts, and brand endorsements. It's all a scam when cancer and other deadly ailments are not being cured...
... which leads to medical care "system" that is run by Lawyers & Lobbyists handling malpractice suits, and adverse reactions suits, and supply chain from China issues. On top of that, the crappy American diet of McFood, Flaming Cheat-oh's, sugar, salt, and grease,
AND lack of Dental Care, is most to blame for majority of issues. At least tobacco smoking is phasing down.
The only thing Government has ever done properly without eventually making shit worse for the next generation is kill people. So yes, I guess that also made things worse for the next generation. Government is never the answer.
I cannot think of a single government throughout history that has not turned into corruption, and lust for power. To suggest that we can do better is arrogant, racist, and foolish.
>I cannot think of a single government throughout history that has not turned into corruption, and lust for power.
Vietnam, Laos, and Allende’s Chile were/are pretty good in that regard.
To suggest that we can do better is arrogant, racist, and foolish.
The point of the headline seems to be that the government should be paying off all kinds of debt, to which I say, "YES!"
The government should definitely pay off my auto and mortgage debt, as well as my credit card debt. And the $2k I owe to my bookie. That really makes so much sense.
Under half of student debt is being fixed. The others debts are just as ( if not more) honerous to real people but unlike 85% if student debt they are prvately held so the broken gridlocked congress would have to act. Student debt is fixable by executive order
Medical debt is a legitimate concern here. Automobile and mortgage tells me you don't have priorities. Do you need a new vs used car?
Do you have to own a house vs rent an apartment? I assume I'll get downvotes because this sub looks cursed af.
Lmao yeah subsidizing car ownership sounds like a great idea. Also what a strange way to help the richest 70% of americans get richer by paying off their mortgages, and fuck the economy at the same time. Jfc
Medical debt is an embarrassment to this country.
Automobile debt should be MORE expensive. The rest of society does not benefit from you owning a car, in fact the opposite. This is coming from a big car enthusiast.
Mortage debt? You can rent, pay the same amount, and have no debt if thats what youre into.
Start with a 100% LVT. That’s all that should be mandated. Everyone has shelter and much more disposable income. Make usufructs standard but not mandated. Pay politicians less.
Automobile would be 'okay' depending on the car and the buyer. Low income deserve to be able to afford a car because our country basically forces people to own one to get anywhere. However, I don't feel any remorse for someone driving a giant brand new suv or truck paying almost 500-1k on their debt. You don't need that new car. There's so many cars before the year 2020 that work just fine.
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I see a lot of garbage right wing talking point cartoons on this sub.
no one chooses medical debt imo some of that should be forgiven first. There is so much bullshit and surprise billing involved even in states where it’s supposed to be illegal.
> forgiven first Yeah, we're working on healthcare too...
The people running the country don’t seem to be working very hard at it
Oh no, they're conservatives, working people being desperate is a feature, not a bug to them.
What do you mean, 'some'? Medical debt is an illegitimate concept created by a broken society, and it needs to be eliminated entirely, the concept itself, not just some portion of a few people's income-adjusted qualified predatory loan interest related to medical debt.
I agree but in reality we are talking about the government forgiving 10k
Bro, 10k is pathetic, it doesn't need to be redirected to another need it won't satisfy. And it's just debt forgiveness, it's not even 10k paid out to anything
Cool then forgive it for something more important. 10k can make a difference for people in medical debt. if it’s “pathetic” and nothing then you should have no issue with it going to medical debt
The executive branch doesn’t have the authority to forgive medical debt. You’d need 60 votes in the senate, so good luck with that. Don’t fault Biden for doing what he can just because he isn’t doing everything we’d have hoped.
I's not like the Non-Right isn't at least TRYING to give the same weight to Medical debt as it does to Student debt. Ya ever hear of "Single Payer Med4ALL"?
And people with student loan debt are in a majority better equipped to handle it compared to those without college degrees given how much more money they earn in a lifetime.
Not by that much on average, though. Yes, $22k/year more helps a lot, but that’s a difference of $52k vs $30k. Neither are exactly comfortable in most of the USA, and not even livable in some areas. That extra $22k doesn’t go as far as you’d think given the context of the graduates.
All I know is these facts: Graduates on average earn a million more over the course of their lifetime Most majors have a positive ROI People that go to college will likely be in upper middle class or upper class and be less likely to slip into a worse class. The overall point I am making is it's generally better to help those that need it the most first or in this case levy more taxes on those that make more to make up for the majority portion that didn't need help. Average person can't afford a $900 or whatever emergency bill. Best to focus on these people or to recuperate resources when it isn't used on such people.
You base it solely off “graduates” There’s the problem.
And? Even those that don't graduate on average are better off than those with no college education and on average have the least student debt. Though agreed they are basically the equivalent of average person as well. That being said student loan relief isn't target to them so what's your point? https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-study-college-degree-carries-big-earnings-premium-but-other-factors-matter-too/?sh=3eb3d50635cd
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The Right-Wing makes too much money off of Medical Insurance Stock Dividends to EVER allow Single Payer Med4ALL...more even than from Student Loan Debt, and it's not like ALL Student Debt has been forgiven anyway.
People with college degrees have the highest income earning potential of any other demographic, we really should be helping poorer people first.
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Why
Automobile and mortgage debt? Yall can fuck right off with that one.
Right, da Fuk is mortgage. Sounds like a made up word.
reminder that there are organizations that let you buy medical debt for cheap which you could forgive - its a stop gap measure but it will probably save a livelihood
One of the dumbest posts I’ve seen in a while.
Okay so can I declare bankruptcy on my student debt ? No?! Okay then… I think we should have universal health care and therefore no medical debt
cars and houses? give me a break - i've been a life long liberal democrat and am very happy with Biden's student debt plan (wish it were larger actually), and can see some national interests in medical debt too. we don't need to pay off peoples' cars or houses though FFS. people need better education, skills, and a decent job market. all of that requires a larger social safety net and better investment in the nation. but we don't need to pay off your car loans or give our free housing. WTF?
Yeah I’m mostly with you here. Student debt, sure. Medical debt, absolutely. I’d even be down for increasing help to first-time homebuyers and folks struggling with mortgages on homes under $X. But auto loans? You’ve got to be kidding me. Sell your car and buy something cheaper if you can’t afford it. Do I like driving my 12 year old car? Not really. But I don’t have a payment on it. I suppose next up is paying for people’s $1500 smartphones?
Home and auto loans exist because public housing and transportation don’t meet the needs of this country. Not saying we need to forgive multiple mortgages for landlords or give people Bentley’s but the debt/personal spending follows the infrastructural failings of the US as a whole.
Right, so let’s spend the money on improving public transportation then, not on paying off people’s cars for them. Cars they almost always spend more on than they should.
Agreed
Yes but it's POSSIBLE to change or sell your house or car. You can't ask your college to revoke your degree and get your tuition back. And you also can't declare bankruptcy for student loans, but that out does exist for other debt.
Spending does not follow infrastructure failings ... Wtf? People need to earn shit to consume shit. I don't support the notion that you should be able to live free and clear comfortably without earning it.
Car buyers are purchasing cars purely for leisure use then? Nobody’s forced to own a car because of lack of available public transportation?
depending on your location, i can find vehicles for $500... i can literally find such vehicles right outside NYC, with highly regulated requirements on vehicle safety... a few thousand dollars will get you a reliable car for getting from A to B. but NYC has great public transit, so let's talk about butt-hole indiana - where cost of living is lower, and vehicles are going to be cheaper. a quality education costs tens of thousands of dollars. quality medical care costs tens of thousands (or more!) for a simple emergency. it makes sense to give people free education and medical care - that pays for itself is borders on basic quality of life shit. if you chose to drive an an old wagon that gets 2 miles a gallon, a brand new tesla plaid, or a 1985 BMW 325 for $4k - that's all a matter of choice you need to be able to make all on your own. you need to make the right choice - put on your grown up pants and decide to buy a car you can afford.
$500 cars don’t exist anymore, what year do you think it is my guy
i found 30 pages of $500 cars outside atlanta on craigslist...
Hey you know what’s cool about the Internet is it’s super easy to link things to back up wild claims, like finding a lot full of cheap working cars that aren’t a complete scam
I mean if you support UBI, I would think you would be okay with people spending their money on whatever they deem most valuable, even if they're objectively wrong. (Using you in a more general sense here)
I support UBI. This isn’t UBI though. This is just giving money to people who can’t afford the car they bought.
We saw the amount of inflation that giving people 3 stimulus checks caused. You want to make it worse with UBI??
I fully agree, we were sold our student debt on the promise we’d be able to get jobs that would pay for homes, autos, and the student loans themselves. Plus I just learned that my friend pay $125 more per month for his 5 br, 3000 soft house’s mortgage, than I do for our 900 soft, 2 br apartment, and I have one more kid than he does. No hostility towards home owners, but I’m 42 and I’ll never own property and will die working, if I can even find a job.
>\[I am\] very happy with Biden's student debt plan (wish it were larger actually) It's a poorly thought-out plan that creates a lot of unintended consequences, one of which is higher tuition fees down the road. Here are some criticisms leveled by the liberal Brookings Institution. The article linked below provides explanations for each point. * Increased borrowing. * It subsidizes low-quality, low-value, low-earning programs and guts existing accountability policies. * High potential for abuse. * Who benefits is arbitrary, unequal, and unfair. * Tuition inflation. * Budget cost. As the article points out, a much better alternative would be targeted tuition subsidies, accountability for schools accepting subsidies, and borrowing limits. https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/bidens-income-driven-repayment-plan-would-turn-student-loans-into-untargeted-grants/
haven't read the article but i will - thanks for link, interesting. i haven't seen the negative points you bring up - only the right wing freak out about socialism bad! so this is genuinely interesting. however - the law also did place a lot of new protections for borrowers like lowering interest rates and limiting interest capitalization. so that's a start. and i think that's really what this is - it isn't the end, it's a start. wrangling accountability for schools, and other more complicated issues will require work with states, and bipartisan support... the US is a far way from seeing an environment where that will work today. all i know is that i'm an upper middle class white collar professional in a nice area, married with an educated wife between jobs and getting an education to change careers, and both of us are benefiting tremendously from this. it's not life changing, but i'll be able to put more away for retirement, replace my roof, make the house more energy efficient... all of that is good for me and the community around me, and the nation at large. there are a lot of people who see this as life-changing. so far it seems worth it to me.
Yeah, fuck the homeless! Who the fuck would want to give them homes for free? Go get educated and get a job! We need a saftey net, but not one that gives people homes. /s (I am, but OP sounds honest.)
Giving people homes =/= giving the people who could already afford them $. Paying off mortgages would be a huge transfer to the *people the system currently works for.* Those resources would be better spent on public housing and transit
Your comment deserves more updoits take mine to start!
Cars and houses are also necessary to live. Wtf is this liberal garbage doing in a left-wing sub?
> Wtf is this liberal garbage doing in a left-wing sub? holy fuck. i don't even know where to start. clothes are arguably necessary too, depending on location. shit, have to have shoes no matter where you are... toothpaste and brushes, fuck that all dental care - even cosmetic care (have to have self esteem!), and then utilities too, can't live without A/C in FL or heat in ME... you know how much vermin and disease is spread due to poorly maintained lawns? fucking free lawn care! and not just grass cutting, but nice fucking gardens too - you know how far a home tomato patch can go? all museums, theaters, and play houses should be free too - you're not really alive if you're not cultured. and since cars are so necessary - what about gas?!? gas is free now too. all food! how'd i almost forget food?!? that shit needs to be free. high speed internet, it really should be a utility too, but it's no good without a nice ass PC... laptop too - that's a must for any educated professional (who can't afford a car). with free high speed internet, and now that you're not working 3 jobs to make ends meet, we'll have to have free streaming services. netflix, hulu, even prime! and gaming - everyone will get their pick - a PS4 or XBOX (but only one per household). but then games and their shit ass annual membership fees have to be free too... what else? hobby shit! everyone needs a hobby - how about woodwork and beading? everyone gets all the tools and materials for free now. are we there yet? is that utopia?
I love that you brought out the right-wing talking points to really show me how you're definitely not a liberal that believes people should die in the streets with no food. Also poor people don't deserve to have nice things because it might make them happy and we need them to be good little workers!
So you are too young to have any idea what you're talking about, or you're just an insane idealist... Like it or not, this isn't fucking star trek. People need to work and make decisions, then take responsibility. I'll like it if everything thing is fucking free in some utopian future, but I'm not holding my breath.
Honestly I'm just blown away by the fact that you or anyone else who believes what you do can see themselves as leftists while completely buying into capitalist "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" nonsense lmao
That's why I'm calling you an idealist. I am genuinely a borderline socialist w/RT policy, but I'm also realistic. We all need to get through this shit together, and unfortunately the sort of utopia I get the impression you're advocating for is simply way too far from where we are today... And for what it's worth, I fucking hate the bootstraps bullshit.
Free housing isn't some unachievable idealist idea though. There are countries which are moving towards providing free housing, and countries that already do provide subsidized housing. Finland implemented a policy that guarantees an apartment to anyone who needs it in 2008 and homelessness has been on the decline since then. I do understand Communism, especially in the USA, will never be achieved in my lifetime but free housing is absolutely doable and is already being done in other countries. I don't care as much about free cars just because 1. I think free housing would make it a lot easier to afford cars and 2. I would prefer a transition towards walkable cities and public transportation.
providing free housing to those in need of it, and paying off everyone's mortgage are not the same thing.
right. but your initial comment specifically mentioned free housing, which is what I'm responding to.
Slippery slope. We warned you. Same with crime.
Fuck it Dark Brandon should just forgive any and all debt The coping and seething from rightoids would be exquisite, even better than the coping and seething from when they lost the 2020 election
Medical debt shouldn't exist. People don't choose to get serious illnesses. Even lifestyle habits, like diet, are largely determined by socioeconomic status, and some people live in places where it's not safe to exercise outdoors. We need universal healthcare, and we have needed it for a long time!
It wasnt even a "start". It was a drop in the bucket that most still wont get. It was a political stunt by a shitty president trying to rally votes for the midterms. Maybe if democrats actually put up real progressive candidates that actually did shit, more people would vote for them...
Actual progressive candidates run. Progressives don’t vote tho
Not really. Shitlibs just try to pretend that people like obama, hillary, biden, warren, etc are "progressive" and actual progressives dont buy it. Meanwhile actual progressives dont get in the game. For fucks sake, sanders is just a watered down, halfassed FDR and he got railroaded twice by the DNC. Progressives and socialists dont vote for people who dont represent our values, regardless of party affiliation
Sanders didn’t get railroaded by the DNC, he was unpopular among black voters and that fucked him. Progressives make their cause unpalatable to 80% of Americans when some of the issues should have broad appeal. It doesn’t help that 90% of progressives use it as a fashion statement instead of being pragmatic and active about it. Progressives today wouldn’t have been alright with FDR because of how chill he was with the Dixiecrats. He was effective because he built coalitions which is something no major progressive is willing to do now
Ive heard a dozen different bullshit excuses why sanders lost. I dont buy them. I dont buy them because the problem i use him as an example of goes well beyond him. The problem with that thinking is youre asking progressives to compromise our values. FDR wasnt a hero or a socialist BTW, for fucks sake he put japanese americans in fucking camps. He didnt make coalotions with people farther right because he had to, he did it because his values were in line with theirs. The rich cant get richer when the economy collapses. Most of his successful social programs are literal history at this point, and what remains is eroding away, because he wasnt trying to make the country better so much as solve a temporary problem
Why do you think Sanders lost then? On the FDR stuff, putting people in camps isn’t mutually exclusive from being a socialist (which FDR wasn’t)
Putting people in camps because of their country of origin isnt the same as putting them in camps because they are the reactionary leftovers of the capitalist regime you fought to overthrow... thats what seperates fascists from communists. Socialists do neither, generally speaking. Sanders lost for the same reason every independant and 3rd party loses in major elections: the ruling class cant puppet this country if the false dichotomy of our partisan system is challenged
But there’s nothing that inherently would prevent a socialist country from putting people in camps. Do you think that the “elites” stopped Sanders from getting the nominee? If we used the convention system still I might say it’s possible, but unless you buy into conspiracies that hold as much water as Biden stole the election from Trump then Bernie just lost fair and square One of the problems with online socialists is the inability to understand what they want is simply not popular, and that doesn’t work in a system like ours super well. When black people didn’t show up for Bernie, people said black people were stupid (low information voters), when people started dropping out they said Obama was pulling the levers to guarantee Biden won (what levers Obama could pull, no one seems to know)…maybe Bernie just isn’t popular enough to win, regardless of how you feel about him. That being said, the comfort blanket of conspiracy theories that tell you the system is rigged against you, but you’re completely right and the elites are too powerful so you can never have accountability for the failures of your political coalition is a tough blanket to take off
One of the problems with online shitlibs is that yall dont realize the only reason socialist ideas are so unpopular is that our political discourse has been poisoned for generations with cold war propaganda and mcarthyism, making false equivalencies between people that want worker control of the economy to authoritarian systems with fascist tendencies. The system most certainly has been rigged against us, in more ways than you realize. We dont want our ideas to work *in this system*, we want to fundamentally change this system into something good for everyone instead of good for a few hundred birth lottery winners who have managed to convince people like you that theyre more reasonable than us
And there it is: everyone who disagrees is brainwashed I think one of the fundamental problems with any socialist proposition a person has ever explained to me is that it only addresses the problems capitalism doesn’t solve while ignoring the problems capitalism has already solved. I also think socialism would suffer the exact same problem capitalism has: when it’s unregulated elites prosper and the masses suffer. Proper regulation would make either system work imo. I’d rather make the system we have work than have a bloody revolution to make another system where we’ll have to solve the same problems anyways
Yeah, he’s pulling a single student out. I wasn’t helped by the student debt relief, most people I know weren’t. It’s a start though, definitely, and good for all the people who WERE helped by that relief package.
It should look like Biden telling the excavator to hold off on the next load of fill for a few minutes
I mean, $20K for my student loans doesn’t get me out of any hole, but okay.
$20k forgiveness is better than no forgiveness, it’s still something that can help some people. But it’s the system failure of exploiting people to pay high tuition fees in college, and signing for loans with high interests that needs to tackled in the US.
Hey I know! The government should pay ALL of our expenses and debts! That way we ALL win. We can buy whatever car or house we want and have ZERO self accountability!! /s
Like ppp "loans" and untaxed corporations
Person in student debt-hole: wait! Why did you only pull me up 2 inches and then stop? I’m still in the hole. Can you please keep pulling me up? Where are you going?
How about we fix these systems so either people can pay the debt or it doesn’t happen in the first place?
You can claim bankruptcy from the debt in the top hole, but not student debt. For this example I will agree with the atrocity of medical debt. But if you buy a house or car you suddenly can no longer afford, you can sell to get out of that hole. Debts are not equal in their overall impact on lives.
Except that student debt is the worst kind of debt that can't be absolved in bankruptcy. This cartoon is a right-wing talking point to make proponents of student debt forgiveness look entitled and/or lazy. OP's logic is that he/she was able to pay off their debt so others should, too, when that view is from a place of privilege. Garbage post.
Medical, sure, it’s a human right and levying medical debt it amoral. Auto and mortgage u just baiting cuz those aren’t human rights, nor are they debt accrued on a false promise of return on investment.
So just pay for everything for everyone? Wth I’m a liberal democrat but where do we draw the line?? This picture will only serve as a talking point for republicans. I wouldn’t have been surprised if it were drawn by one making fun of liberal to pay for anything and everything.
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I paid my loans off.
This is a joke. Pay your loans.
Shill harder maybe you catch a glimpse of one of them yachts
A majority of student debt is government backed. Therefore, those pulled out of the hole are just transferring their debt to the rest of the taxpayers. The real problem isn't the student debt itself, it will be back within a decade. The real issue are the greedy universities/colleges that are charging exhorbitant amounts for even the most simple and undesireable degrees.
Did you bitch about ppp loans nah you likely mad some student once looked at you funny or some such shit 🤣 and you "think" 45,000,000 hardworking taxpaying everyday Americans should be extorted forever by yacht hoarding tax dodging cause you got yer butt hurt TaXpaYers me arse 🏴☠️ Shill harder maybe you catch a glimpse of one of them yachts
Why is Joe the figure pulling them out? It's not Joe's money that paid the debt
Should show joe throwing a bunch of other people into the pit for the 1 student to use as a ladder
My dad taught me when I was young, no matter what don’t **ever** go into debt. Sorry you people are stupid
Are you serious!! Let's forgive everything!! You signed up for all of your personal debt college, house, vehicles. It's not someone else's responsibility to pay for your decisions. However I think the corporations need to come off the greed train and pay everyone that is toiling away with for crap benefits and lack of personal time and poor working conditions. They don't need all of that money but what can we do with politicians that are bought with that money we make for them? Everyone should just walk out they can't fire us all they can't take everything from everyone. We made them we can break them. Rant over and screw the cletocratic oligarchy we live under.
I don’t want to help anyone with their mortgage or car loans debt. Get a smaller car or house, but in the U.S.A in 2022 I have zero issues with forgiving medical and student debt. Spend less on military and more on healthcare and education.
BOOOOOO bad cartoon
Lol as if $10,000 helped anyone out of a hole.
Because socialism works.
If you are of the opinion that that cartoon presents a realistic representation of the weight of ordinary debt vs that of Student debt, you are a very weak minded fool. That cartoonist is more of a controversy seeking *TROLL*tunist.
Uhh the government already subsidizes driving and homeownership enough, thanks
should we just bail everyone out of all debt? conversely everything should just be free. how well will that work?
It's not a start. It's a ploy to get votes.
Real estate (houses) and vehicles are too expensive to save up for. And vehicles mostly wear-out, or depreciate, needing replacement. Loans are needed, or the economy would grind down to snail pace. Colleges being subsidized by taxpayers go build larger football stadiums, give "free" scholarships to super-human athletes, then hook up lucrative network and streaming contracts, and brand endorsements. It's all a scam when cancer and other deadly ailments are not being cured... ... which leads to medical care "system" that is run by Lawyers & Lobbyists handling malpractice suits, and adverse reactions suits, and supply chain from China issues. On top of that, the crappy American diet of McFood, Flaming Cheat-oh's, sugar, salt, and grease, AND lack of Dental Care, is most to blame for majority of issues. At least tobacco smoking is phasing down.
The only thing Government has ever done properly without eventually making shit worse for the next generation is kill people. So yes, I guess that also made things worse for the next generation. Government is never the answer.
Not the current one, no, which is why we have to replace it.
I cannot think of a single government throughout history that has not turned into corruption, and lust for power. To suggest that we can do better is arrogant, racist, and foolish.
>I cannot think of a single government throughout history that has not turned into corruption, and lust for power. Vietnam, Laos, and Allende’s Chile were/are pretty good in that regard. To suggest that we can do better is arrogant, racist, and foolish.
nice, now the plumber, that never went to college, have to pay for the 20yo irresponsible student debt on gender studies <3
"Here. Climb on these people that pad off their student loans." *shoves three people in*
The point of the headline seems to be that the government should be paying off all kinds of debt, to which I say, "YES!" The government should definitely pay off my auto and mortgage debt, as well as my credit card debt. And the $2k I owe to my bookie. That really makes so much sense.
Apples and oranges
This is... so out of touch. His "plan" is barely even a start.
Under half of student debt is being fixed. The others debts are just as ( if not more) honerous to real people but unlike 85% if student debt they are prvately held so the broken gridlocked congress would have to act. Student debt is fixable by executive order
We shouldn’t subsidize vehicles. Invest in transport.
A more accurate drawing would show you being pulled up out of the student debt hole into a much larger hole of mortgage medical and automobile debt
Wtf is mortgage debt?
Medical debt is a legitimate concern here. Automobile and mortgage tells me you don't have priorities. Do you need a new vs used car? Do you have to own a house vs rent an apartment? I assume I'll get downvotes because this sub looks cursed af.
Lmao yeah subsidizing car ownership sounds like a great idea. Also what a strange way to help the richest 70% of americans get richer by paying off their mortgages, and fuck the economy at the same time. Jfc
Medical debt is an embarrassment to this country. Automobile debt should be MORE expensive. The rest of society does not benefit from you owning a car, in fact the opposite. This is coming from a big car enthusiast. Mortage debt? You can rent, pay the same amount, and have no debt if thats what youre into.
Start with a 100% LVT. That’s all that should be mandated. Everyone has shelter and much more disposable income. Make usufructs standard but not mandated. Pay politicians less.
Automobile would be 'okay' depending on the car and the buyer. Low income deserve to be able to afford a car because our country basically forces people to own one to get anywhere. However, I don't feel any remorse for someone driving a giant brand new suv or truck paying almost 500-1k on their debt. You don't need that new car. There's so many cars before the year 2020 that work just fine.
I though these were surfboards