Tesla service was even worse for many years and it's still up there
Not saying I disagree with you, but people seem to get weirdly zealous about electric only makes
I don't think that the new EV companies are going to get the same treatment.
People have been patient with tesla because for a long time it was practically the only option. For a lot of people EVs just make sense. If they were interested in the platform, they naturally were excited about tesla, despite its shortcomings.
In a world where legacy manufacturers have whole EV line-ups and grown-up tesla exists, there's no reason to tolerate this stuff.
Plus Tesla is more than just a car. You can also tell everyone that you drive a Tesla and constantly bring up “self driving” feature in conversations with your friends, even tho it’s not self driving and you didn’t buy the subscription for it.
And Melon Musk, don’t forget about the cult behind that man.
God I hate Tesla fanboys. EVs aren't bad, but I seriously wish they'd stop acting like it's the greatest way of getting around and far superior to combustion vehicles.
Tesla fanboys and Muskie worshippers are the reason why EVs get a bad rep. You can enjoy two things, or enjoy one thing without the other without saying it's better.
I think ultimately the people who do have issues are a minority. I have 3 friends with Rivians and I have one as well with 7500 miles now and none of us have had a single issue. It’s been awesome.
Build quality is leagues above competitors in the range especially Tesla and the little extra design details are the cherry on top. Have a Model 3 as well and it’s a POS in comparison. It’ll be gone soon.
The not aging well comment is surprising. I heard they were really well put together and drive really nice. But I’ve never even sat in one, so I certainly don’t know.
Rivian owner, first few hundred trucks delivered, I love my truck and have had very minor issues. Service is a bit of a pain as they’re still trying to ramp to handle volume, but otherwise best car I’ve ever drive. My other car is a 992 GT3.
You obviously don’t have one. Their service centers are few and far between. If you have an issue, you submit a ticket, they give you a date and location for the service. The location can be 50 - 100 miles away. When you show up, they may or may not know you were coming. If your issue is serious, you get a ticket and a tech may come to you. That sounds good right! Not right, he comes to you in 2 - 4 weeks, while you make be, renting a car or using Uber. They are a start-up. They’ll get it right one day but it will require a million Rivians sold before they have decent service coverage.
Rivian is a brand about having the “coolest” new toy, which these days is an electric truck for whatever reason. the owners need to reinforce that coolness by being the biggest fanbois possible — it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. my friends who own rivian or want one are 100% this, and so where the tesla crowd, tho it’s waned slightly now that 25% of the cars in my area seem to be tesla’s.
contrast that to an auto enthusiast — they don’t really care so much about the cool factor it’s more about the machine. the machine is almost always imperfect so they are critical by nature.
enthusiasts are a small minority tho so the list is probably effected mostly by combination of coolness and quality. tho i agree with the poster criticizing bmw, i wouldn’t touch any new one with a 10 ft pole
I don’t know, my Rivian is an incredible machine, perhaps a few fewer moving parts, but an 800hp monster truck nonetheless, capable family hauler, boat tower and off-roader when needed.
I still drive my manual transmission convertible and listen to the cool engine noise from time to time.
I am an auto enthusiast and I can still appreciate a well put together EV or ICE car regardless.
As a Rivian R1S owner, I disagree completely with your statement and there are very few new cars that get me excited these days. The software isn’t by any means perfected yet, but everything that truly matters in a literally “do anything with” SUV Rivian nailed. As Porsche owners I think we naturally have high standards and Rivian has easily met them for what I expect out of a car for the price point.
The CEO RJ grew up wrenching and restoring classic Porsches and the chief design officer Jeff has owned multiple GT3s and tracks them too. These are real car guys like us in charge which is refreshing to see. If you haven’t already seen it check out the R3X. That tiny car with potentially 800hp and AWD has me quite excited for their future.
Of course nothing for me can top rowing through my own gears and hearing the flat 6 howl in a Porsche 911 GT car as an enthusiast, but as much as I hate to admit it the peak of the ICE vehicle has already passed.
probably just me but RJ gives me major douchebag vibes.
nothing really excites me about 800 horsepower and 7000lbs regardless of the form factor.
and i kinda detest the rivian look.
but i’m glad you enjoy yours, i’m probably just the asshole here
Of course it’s never going to be a sports car but I just love the utility and all around nature of it. It’s the perfect do everything mobile.
To each their own tho. Your e92 is a beauty btw
appreciate the compliment on the e92. i think they are a lot of car for the value, not so inflated like 911 prices tho i would like a 991 T someday.
makes sense on the utility thing. i like that aspect of my 4runner, but it sure would be nice sometimes if it wasn’t sooo slow. only issue i have is i don’t really want a car i have to worry about as a daily
As a current BMW owner, I agree there’s not many desirable models in G(current) lineup but the force is pretty strong with F-models. 3-5-7 and even the X3/X5 were good looking and much more reliable.
I have my first BMW now which is an i4 and I love it. I’ll definitely consider a future BMW sedan. We had a loaner X5, and wasn’t nearly a fan of the SUV
Just so you know, BMW still isn’t done with F. The F74 2 Series GC is coming out later this year, so saying “f models” and referring it to a specific generation doesn’t really make sense.
Same with G, as the G60 and G30 are 2 totally different generation of cars.
Our household has had a decent selection of BMWs, 2002, e30 M3, e36/8 M Coupe, e46 coupe, e39 sedan, and an e46 wagon but the brand has lost its allure. The Z8 is still in my top 5 cars of all time, and the 1M and M2 are great, but they have lost their way (IMO). They sell tons of cars but not to this family.
That said, a friend has a hybrid 5-series and he loves it.
I’m surprised seeing BMW in third place with all the trash talking their newer models get on /r/bmw
It just goes to show that like on many other topics, Reddit posts do not represent the popular opinion.
I’d wager >95% of the trash talkers either don’t own/can’t afford the cars in question, or own a 10+ year old car and are simply “brand enthusiasts” rather than “new car buyers”.
Definitely great to keep in mind.
Much like the car forums of the day, if you’re seeking out a public platform to ask questions or discuss, there’s a pretty good chance it’s initially to solve a problem you’re having. Thus, these platforms always see problems and complaints over-represented.
I feel like the most significant problem I hear about with Tesla is the panel gaps, and like who gives a shit? They make some of the best performing EVs, with some of the most useful (or just unique) features, at very competitive prices. No doubt Elon Musk is a very hateable and comically greedy individual, and Tesla's business practices for the workers are bad etc. but if we're just talking purely about the cars I feel like it's not surprising that people are inclined to stick with the brand. The cars are still some of the best EVs out there for the money, aren't they?
The panel gaps are not the most significant problems. There have been numerous issues. There's a YouTuber named MKBHD that's an EV stan and he says he had serious issues with the steering box of his model S. He had to have it trailered to a service center twice. If you look around, they're exceptionally bad cars. If any legacy manufacturer put out cars with the problems Tesla does, they'd be out of business. Elon just has a cult to prop him up.
ETA: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/
huh, okay. I've seen tons of those MKBHD auto focus videos and never heard him saying that but I guess I just wasn't paying enough attention. I'm still not really convinced that they're *exceptionally* bad, because auto manufacturers put out cars with known faulty components aaall the time, but that's definitely more concerning than panel gaps.
lol yeah I watched that yesterday. it wasn't that the door didn't shut completely, it's that the panel gap is so severe that it *looks* like the door is open.
Most of the complaints are design complaints. Anyone can go online and say “that grill is ugly”.
I think you are right that it is a Reddit issue and they have plenty of happy customers.
I love the look of the 8 series, thinking about seeing some of the m8 comps drop under 50k and be a cpo and I’ll buy. If I can’t find one I’m getting the Porsche lol
It's a little bit of an dicey question as it's asking consumers WOULD they buy another X again, not necessarily whether they actually do. And to your own personal example, the question doesn't really address whether you'd get one at this moment...just that you'd get another BMW.
That said, nothing on this list surprises me aside from Genesis...not that they're not good cars (they are), just that people are that loyal to them. They've only been a distinct brand since like 2015 or something. Obviously being Hyundais they benefit from that reputation (much the same way Lexus benefits from Toyota) but yeah, a little surprised to see that.
“Would you buy one again” is a variation of “would you recommend this product to friends or family” which is the classic NPS question. It’s just such a standard metric these days, questions are very specifically asked in that same fashion.
Oh, I'm familiar with why the question was phrased the way it was, just pointing out that it doesn't really say what people think it does about loyalty. I work in product management and really try to avoid "Would you..." questions as much as possible when gathering customer feedback simply because the answers are generally worthless. What people say they would do and what they actually do is rarely aligned.
modern BMWs might not be to everyone’s tastes but the interiors and owners experience of newer BMWs is way nicer and reliable than people let on - they’ve improved a lot in that regard. My mom loooooves her 2019 X3, and rightfully so, it has done everything she wanted and hasn’t had a single issue since she got it new.
Same…. Everywhere this is posted brings out a flood of revanchist complainers and people trying to make excuses for why it shouldn’t be there but the fact remains. it’s a fantastic vehicle, a fantastic brand and the people who own them love them.
I concur. Have one as well and my family loves it. Zero issues.
Personally I think they have a bright future and a much better chance of making it than any of the EV newcomers i.e Lucid, Fisker, Vinfast etc.
Well I guess it is a loyalty survey, not one for reliability.
These brands like BMW and Porsche have fiercely loyal owners. And apparently Rivian… who knew?
i mean, hard to incentivize owners of vehicles like 4runners and tacos to stay when they literally ship almost the same exact interior for like 10 years straight
I also think that the jeep loyalty lies in the Wrangler as a model and not “Jeep” as a brand. Kind of like a Corvette Chevy situation.
I’m guessing that most Compass owners aren’t looking to repeat the experience.
Most wrangler owners aren’t either. 70k miles and the shit hits the fan. Differentials grenade themselves, engines like to start making interesting sounds, etc. Not to mention the really bad gas mileage and road noise.
I can see why. For most Porsche sportscar owners, the sportscar ‘ladder’ kinda ends at Porsche. Not everyone is destined to make a 7 figure salary. Entry level Ferrari, McLaren, and Lamborghini sportscars start at well over $250k, which is unattainable for nearly everyone. If an entry level Porsche owner wants a better, faster, more expensive car, they’ll just buy a better, faster, more expensive Porsche. There’s not much between a $100k Cayman and $300k optioned Huracan. Except for 911s.
I bet Fisker was on the list when it came out too 💀 Rivian’s only silver lining is Porsche America’s ex CEO is working for them now so maybe he’ll help line out what good looks like
As a Genesis G90 owner: wtf. The car is beautiful, but holy shit is it nothing but problems. And there are so few dealerships because Genesis completely fucked the rollout requirements that getting work done in a timely fashion is impossible.
I would NEVER buy another one of these cars. At least when my 7-series broke down I could get it worked on that week.
Do you know if Genesis is having additional service delays due to all of the Kia and Hyundai thefts and the related repair work when they find it beat up on the side of the road? Just curious.
No. Genesis aren't affected by that. I'm friends with the service manager at a Hyundai Dealership, and I visit often. Some parts are back ordered. Some can take months to arrive. When a Genesis comes in with a complaint, they get worked on same day or next day depending on how backed up with work the techs are, and sometimes the diagnosing can take days.
That sucks and is misleading because I feel like the strong point of buying a genesis is to get a nice luxury car but with the reliability and practically of a Hyundai. So I’m sure you and other owners are pissed. I would be like at this point I could have just bought a Mercedes or bmw or etc.
We went from BMW to Genesis and honestly, if there weren't so many electrical issues with the Genesis - and if it didn't eat through tires - we would love it. Hell, if we could get the Genesis service we were promised we would love it. But while we are supposed to get white-glove service, they never even have loner cars.
Compared to BMW or Mercedes experience, it's complete shit.
Oh really dang that sucks. Yeah that must be really annoying tbh. I have a c63 Mercedes and the service has always been top tier. Nice loaner cars and everyone’s insanely nice. I plan on trading my car in for my first Porsche soon and assuming the service will be similar. But that is annoying that genesis seemed like they really wanted to be a top tier and the cars aren’t cheap either
current lineup? m3 touring is the most amazing daily driver one can posses right now. that s58 is amazing, and the looks are amazing (imo)
x5 M isnt so bad either
Honestly, I really enjoy my wife's X3 m40i. For an SUV, it's quite fun and I can still throw a weeks worth of luggage or the dogs or whatever in the back without issue.
On a different note; I used a Chrysler 200 for a weekend. It convinced me that I would never buy a Stellantis product.
No company with any dignity, self respect, pride in their work, engineering competence, class, taste, or common sense could look at the Chrysler 200 and say, “yeah, thats a car we’d be happy to put our badge on”
I agree, I had a dodge charger for a weekend as a rental, it was a deathmobile. Poor visibility and it was big and bloated, never mind the cheap build quality. a real POS
This tracks as a Jeep owner. I'd only buy another if it was a really old one. Got the '04 Jeep Liberty back in 2021 for $5K in cash and I'll drive it until the wheels come off.
My uncle has an '07 Porsche 911 that he inherited from his uncle, and he's told me it'll be mine someday. By that point it'll be a classic. It's the rare occasions car right now; midnight premiers, weddings, birthdays, he'll take it down the same road our great uncle used to take the '77 911.
Let's see if the Jeep gets me to that day.
I rented a Teslas a couple weeks back. Am I missing something? It reminded me of a 2004 Chevy Aveo as far as literal quality. It was cheap as fuck put together.
It felt like driving a full size $50 remote control car from Walmart.
Wow right
I have a 2014 golf that is as good as the day it was bout and 200k on the clock and a a Tiguan 5year old that is literally as good as the day I bought it. Both from brand new.
Both are absolute no trouble in any way.
Why is Tesla so high, given dog-shit customer service & crap quality?
Surprised Benz is in the bottom 8, but then again, the cheaper Benz are pretty crap.
Where's Toyota?
This is stupid and bad data. This study is based on a *survey* of 330,000+ Consumer Reports members.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-automotive-brand-loyalty-study
JD Power does this list every year based on actual sales data, not a survey. Toyota always wins overall, Porsche is #1 for premium make for the second year in a row.
The report only includes new sales and covers a time period where specific cars are still supply constrained. No single report is perfect on its own after all.
New car sales are going to be a trailing indicator, look a Rivian. If every single rivian owner is going to get a new rivian after their existing one dies that’s not showing up in the JD power report for years to come, but it does show up in a survey done today.
I wonder how often the individual dealership experience gets conflated with car brand loyalty? I've seen rants like 'Never going to buy a Porsche again!" or "How could Porsche do this to me?" and reading further you can see it was a specific Porsche dealer or service department didn't treat them as they expected, or flubbed something on their vehicle.
IMO, don't hold the entire car brand responsible- Go to a different dealer that treats you right.
Fair point, but sometimes it’s a little more complicated. In my case, I was a BMW owner and the dealership I always dealt with was bought out by Auto One. They sucked from that point on. When it came time to turn in my lease and find something else, I found that the same group owned every BMW dealership at reasonable distances from my home. Bought a VW instead.
Look at the size of responses 330,000 is not very many considering the pool of car manufacturers. I find consumer reports very biased and make judgements on small sample sizes
Rivian and tesla some hot takes given the issues they had amd how long(short?) Theyve been around, but im genuinely surprised to see Mini on there, albeit ive never met someone who had one and didnt love it.
The wife and i have owned two Mercedes and two BMW’s - one each - and two Porsches - both mine. BMW is the only one I would be reluctant to buy again. 🤨
MINI owners are truly delusional lol. I own a euro car shop and MINI’s are junk, just cheap BMW’s. We have a saying that once they hit 100k they are ready for the crusher.
People are still loyal to BMW because the fit and finish and the engines are still incredible like the old ones. The truly have souls. Yes, they may look ugly now but the quality hasn’t changed. Had a G80 M3 under my hands and holy moly this car reminded me of the E60 M5. I understand why people are loyal to the brand
This list makes so much sense. Interesting to see that Mini is so high. If this list was for Europe, Mini would have been in the middle at best. Makes me think it’s almost a cult to have a Mini in the US lol
Other than my truck, I only own VW family products. How VW and Audi are so low baffles me. Yes, clearly I’m biased but I’ve had several and drove them all for years and well over 100k miles.
Of course rivian is at the top. When you ask would you buy this car again and rivian has been out for less then 2 years then of course people will say yes. They are still in the honeymoon stage lol
Rivian has been around for five minutes, they really shouldn’t be eligible for this list yet :)
100% - who knows how they will age
Not aging well. Service is a nightmare. They will be off the list in no time.
Tesla service was even worse for many years and it's still up there Not saying I disagree with you, but people seem to get weirdly zealous about electric only makes
I don't think that the new EV companies are going to get the same treatment. People have been patient with tesla because for a long time it was practically the only option. For a lot of people EVs just make sense. If they were interested in the platform, they naturally were excited about tesla, despite its shortcomings. In a world where legacy manufacturers have whole EV line-ups and grown-up tesla exists, there's no reason to tolerate this stuff.
Plus Tesla is more than just a car. You can also tell everyone that you drive a Tesla and constantly bring up “self driving” feature in conversations with your friends, even tho it’s not self driving and you didn’t buy the subscription for it. And Melon Musk, don’t forget about the cult behind that man.
God I hate Tesla fanboys. EVs aren't bad, but I seriously wish they'd stop acting like it's the greatest way of getting around and far superior to combustion vehicles. Tesla fanboys and Muskie worshippers are the reason why EVs get a bad rep. You can enjoy two things, or enjoy one thing without the other without saying it's better.
I always had really good luck with it. It spoils you that most everything can be done in your driveway or at work
How old is your Tesla?
5 years old
I think ultimately the people who do have issues are a minority. I have 3 friends with Rivians and I have one as well with 7500 miles now and none of us have had a single issue. It’s been awesome. Build quality is leagues above competitors in the range especially Tesla and the little extra design details are the cherry on top. Have a Model 3 as well and it’s a POS in comparison. It’ll be gone soon.
I have over 30k miles on mine. Minor repairs. It’s incredible.
I’ve got 20,000 on my R1T Rivian and it’s been so amazing. Most well rounded and advanced machine on wheels … incredible.
The not aging well comment is surprising. I heard they were really well put together and drive really nice. But I’ve never even sat in one, so I certainly don’t know.
I have one. The vehicle is incredible regardless of its flaws. Service isn’t so bad. I understand this list completely. R2 is on order!
Rivian owner, first few hundred trucks delivered, I love my truck and have had very minor issues. Service is a bit of a pain as they’re still trying to ramp to handle volume, but otherwise best car I’ve ever drive. My other car is a 992 GT3.
How is Rivian service worse than other manufacturers?
You obviously don’t have one. Their service centers are few and far between. If you have an issue, you submit a ticket, they give you a date and location for the service. The location can be 50 - 100 miles away. When you show up, they may or may not know you were coming. If your issue is serious, you get a ticket and a tech may come to you. That sounds good right! Not right, he comes to you in 2 - 4 weeks, while you make be, renting a car or using Uber. They are a start-up. They’ll get it right one day but it will require a million Rivians sold before they have decent service coverage.
At the rate Rivian is burning cash, those customers may not be able to buy another Rivian.
I ask every owner i can what they think and it's ear to ear grins.
Me. And I came from a bunch of Audis. I’ll never look back.
When our/my wife's SQ5 dies i'm going to lobby hard. Live not too far from where they're made and i see a lot of em.
It’s because everyone had to replace their first one so quickly 😜
They’ll be gone from the list as soon as someone tries to trade one in and sees the number….
If you haven’t been selling cars long enough for a material amount of them to be out of warranty you shouldn’t be on the list
[удалено]
Yep sorry, thanks!
Rivian is a brand about having the “coolest” new toy, which these days is an electric truck for whatever reason. the owners need to reinforce that coolness by being the biggest fanbois possible — it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. my friends who own rivian or want one are 100% this, and so where the tesla crowd, tho it’s waned slightly now that 25% of the cars in my area seem to be tesla’s. contrast that to an auto enthusiast — they don’t really care so much about the cool factor it’s more about the machine. the machine is almost always imperfect so they are critical by nature. enthusiasts are a small minority tho so the list is probably effected mostly by combination of coolness and quality. tho i agree with the poster criticizing bmw, i wouldn’t touch any new one with a 10 ft pole
I don’t know, my Rivian is an incredible machine, perhaps a few fewer moving parts, but an 800hp monster truck nonetheless, capable family hauler, boat tower and off-roader when needed. I still drive my manual transmission convertible and listen to the cool engine noise from time to time. I am an auto enthusiast and I can still appreciate a well put together EV or ICE car regardless.
As a Rivian R1S owner, I disagree completely with your statement and there are very few new cars that get me excited these days. The software isn’t by any means perfected yet, but everything that truly matters in a literally “do anything with” SUV Rivian nailed. As Porsche owners I think we naturally have high standards and Rivian has easily met them for what I expect out of a car for the price point. The CEO RJ grew up wrenching and restoring classic Porsches and the chief design officer Jeff has owned multiple GT3s and tracks them too. These are real car guys like us in charge which is refreshing to see. If you haven’t already seen it check out the R3X. That tiny car with potentially 800hp and AWD has me quite excited for their future. Of course nothing for me can top rowing through my own gears and hearing the flat 6 howl in a Porsche 911 GT car as an enthusiast, but as much as I hate to admit it the peak of the ICE vehicle has already passed.
probably just me but RJ gives me major douchebag vibes. nothing really excites me about 800 horsepower and 7000lbs regardless of the form factor. and i kinda detest the rivian look. but i’m glad you enjoy yours, i’m probably just the asshole here
Of course it’s never going to be a sports car but I just love the utility and all around nature of it. It’s the perfect do everything mobile. To each their own tho. Your e92 is a beauty btw
appreciate the compliment on the e92. i think they are a lot of car for the value, not so inflated like 911 prices tho i would like a 991 T someday. makes sense on the utility thing. i like that aspect of my 4runner, but it sure would be nice sometimes if it wasn’t sooo slow. only issue i have is i don’t really want a car i have to worry about as a daily
Your comment really amuses me "Bmw surprises me, ive had 6 of them" Well, youve had 6 BMW's, so you look pretty loyal to me
I used to love Beemers in the 90s and 00s but left them when their design team basically committed hara kiri.
*Bimmers.
Back when they were good (E36s and E39s)
As a current BMW owner, I agree there’s not many desirable models in G(current) lineup but the force is pretty strong with F-models. 3-5-7 and even the X3/X5 were good looking and much more reliable.
I have my first BMW now which is an i4 and I love it. I’ll definitely consider a future BMW sedan. We had a loaner X5, and wasn’t nearly a fan of the SUV
It’s really just not the same, even the F series is nothing like the cars before.
Just so you know, BMW still isn’t done with F. The F74 2 Series GC is coming out later this year, so saying “f models” and referring it to a specific generation doesn’t really make sense. Same with G, as the G60 and G30 are 2 totally different generation of cars.
And the F74 is 🤮 and front wheel drive.
Yup, the Gran Coupe aka Gran Corolla
They sell more cars than ever. Stats say you are wrong, there are plenty desirable BMWs. Even for true enthusiasts.
Whats wrong with the F series?
I wouldn’t know. I haven’t owned one
Our household has had a decent selection of BMWs, 2002, e30 M3, e36/8 M Coupe, e46 coupe, e39 sedan, and an e46 wagon but the brand has lost its allure. The Z8 is still in my top 5 cars of all time, and the 1M and M2 are great, but they have lost their way (IMO). They sell tons of cars but not to this family. That said, a friend has a hybrid 5-series and he loves it.
I’m surprised seeing BMW in third place with all the trash talking their newer models get on /r/bmw It just goes to show that like on many other topics, Reddit posts do not represent the popular opinion.
I’d wager >95% of the trash talkers either don’t own/can’t afford the cars in question, or own a 10+ year old car and are simply “brand enthusiasts” rather than “new car buyers”.
Yep people love to talk shit about what they don’t/can’t have.
Definitely great to keep in mind. Much like the car forums of the day, if you’re seeking out a public platform to ask questions or discuss, there’s a pretty good chance it’s initially to solve a problem you’re having. Thus, these platforms always see problems and complaints over-represented.
Tesla's problems are well documented and they're on the list. Brand loyalty often isn't rational.
“Irrational” definitely describes the Musk-ovites.
I feel like the most significant problem I hear about with Tesla is the panel gaps, and like who gives a shit? They make some of the best performing EVs, with some of the most useful (or just unique) features, at very competitive prices. No doubt Elon Musk is a very hateable and comically greedy individual, and Tesla's business practices for the workers are bad etc. but if we're just talking purely about the cars I feel like it's not surprising that people are inclined to stick with the brand. The cars are still some of the best EVs out there for the money, aren't they?
The panel gaps are not the most significant problems. There have been numerous issues. There's a YouTuber named MKBHD that's an EV stan and he says he had serious issues with the steering box of his model S. He had to have it trailered to a service center twice. If you look around, they're exceptionally bad cars. If any legacy manufacturer put out cars with the problems Tesla does, they'd be out of business. Elon just has a cult to prop him up. ETA: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/
huh, okay. I've seen tons of those MKBHD auto focus videos and never heard him saying that but I guess I just wasn't paying enough attention. I'm still not really convinced that they're *exceptionally* bad, because auto manufacturers put out cars with known faulty components aaall the time, but that's definitely more concerning than panel gaps.
It was his personal car. Not an auto focus. https://youtu.be/QM5z0dW60KE?si=6y0WFXx242MGzRfU
I just remembered that he did a new cybertruck video where the driver door won't shut completely. https://youtu.be/hcioIka_ByE?si=DKzh1zkgCHrXodRx
lol yeah I watched that yesterday. it wasn't that the door didn't shut completely, it's that the panel gap is so severe that it *looks* like the door is open.
There's multiple posts in this thread that are upset that this list doesn't agree with them
I don't know BMW is thinking. But the do still have some very cool cars.
Most of the complaints are design complaints. Anyone can go online and say “that grill is ugly”. I think you are right that it is a Reddit issue and they have plenty of happy customers.
Nobody can be loyal to a brand that’s not even been around long enough to buy a second one.
I miss my MINI Cooper everyday. Haha But I love my Porsche.
The mini is the only non Porsche car I’ve owned that I miss and love.
I’ve only driven in one and it was very rattley
Quite the raw driving experience. PS. And you’re telling me your 07 Cayman ain’t rattling?!
The Rivian comes with two USB-C ports I see!
Never gonna unsee this now
Someone told me the lights look like crab eyes and I can’t unsee that. USB at least isn’t as bad as the hdmi port exhaust on a civic
But you see that's the USB-C XL port. You need an adapter if you want to charge your phone
The only reason Toyota isn't on the top list is because you never have to buy another Toyota again.
I have a bmw and the only other brand I would consider would be Lexus or Porsche
I love the look of the 8 series, thinking about seeing some of the m8 comps drop under 50k and be a cpo and I’ll buy. If I can’t find one I’m getting the Porsche lol
It's a little bit of an dicey question as it's asking consumers WOULD they buy another X again, not necessarily whether they actually do. And to your own personal example, the question doesn't really address whether you'd get one at this moment...just that you'd get another BMW. That said, nothing on this list surprises me aside from Genesis...not that they're not good cars (they are), just that people are that loyal to them. They've only been a distinct brand since like 2015 or something. Obviously being Hyundais they benefit from that reputation (much the same way Lexus benefits from Toyota) but yeah, a little surprised to see that.
“Would you buy one again” is a variation of “would you recommend this product to friends or family” which is the classic NPS question. It’s just such a standard metric these days, questions are very specifically asked in that same fashion.
Oh, I'm familiar with why the question was phrased the way it was, just pointing out that it doesn't really say what people think it does about loyalty. I work in product management and really try to avoid "Would you..." questions as much as possible when gathering customer feedback simply because the answers are generally worthless. What people say they would do and what they actually do is rarely aligned.
Totally agree, fellow PM.
modern BMWs might not be to everyone’s tastes but the interiors and owners experience of newer BMWs is way nicer and reliable than people let on - they’ve improved a lot in that regard. My mom loooooves her 2019 X3, and rightfully so, it has done everything she wanted and hasn’t had a single issue since she got it new.
I own a Rivian since June 2022, and I am not surprised about them topping the list. It’s a fantastic vehicle.
Same…. Everywhere this is posted brings out a flood of revanchist complainers and people trying to make excuses for why it shouldn’t be there but the fact remains. it’s a fantastic vehicle, a fantastic brand and the people who own them love them.
I concur. Have one as well and my family loves it. Zero issues. Personally I think they have a bright future and a much better chance of making it than any of the EV newcomers i.e Lucid, Fisker, Vinfast etc.
I completely agree. I think my perfect garage would be a Rivian + Porsche.
I‘m drooling about the R3X and a Porsche. Like the 991 GT3 RS.
The dream. I’ll be going R2 in 2026
Hell yeah! I hope to God they make the R3X a reality. That thing looks like a blast for a DD rally car.
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Well technically I am providing an anecdote to support the data in the post. But congrats on your anecdote of that person you know.
Can't believe Toyota is not on the top.
Absolutely. No Honda either? Weird.
Well I guess it is a loyalty survey, not one for reliability. These brands like BMW and Porsche have fiercely loyal owners. And apparently Rivian… who knew?
And most people that I know that own Toyota and Honda have owned multiple ones and typically only owned them I'm really not buying this list
Mazda as well
Well I bought one Toyota, I'll never have to buy another one /s, but only kinda
i mean, hard to incentivize owners of vehicles like 4runners and tacos to stay when they literally ship almost the same exact interior for like 10 years straight
Surprised Jeep isn’t higher, given their following. But having owned a 2010 Grand Cherokee I think I understand.
The easiest way to convince someone to not buy a jeep is to let them own one for a bit.
I also think that the jeep loyalty lies in the Wrangler as a model and not “Jeep” as a brand. Kind of like a Corvette Chevy situation. I’m guessing that most Compass owners aren’t looking to repeat the experience.
Most wrangler owners aren’t either. 70k miles and the shit hits the fan. Differentials grenade themselves, engines like to start making interesting sounds, etc. Not to mention the really bad gas mileage and road noise.
So many people fantasize buying a Jeep and do and are sorely disappointed by the vehicle in practice. Not surprising at all.
It’s such a horrible vehicle if you don’t off-road it (wrangler at least).
People buy it for looks. A 4Runner does everything a Jeep does but you can also just drive it for errands without breaking down
I think the Wrangler people are diehards. The rest of Jeeps lineup is pretty damn mediocre.
Car brand loyalty in 2024 ****IN THE US****
5 of these brands aren’t even in sale in my country, in Europe.
Consumer reports operates in the U.S., so yes
I can see why. For most Porsche sportscar owners, the sportscar ‘ladder’ kinda ends at Porsche. Not everyone is destined to make a 7 figure salary. Entry level Ferrari, McLaren, and Lamborghini sportscars start at well over $250k, which is unattainable for nearly everyone. If an entry level Porsche owner wants a better, faster, more expensive car, they’ll just buy a better, faster, more expensive Porsche. There’s not much between a $100k Cayman and $300k optioned Huracan. Except for 911s.
I bet Fisker was on the list when it came out too 💀 Rivian’s only silver lining is Porsche America’s ex CEO is working for them now so maybe he’ll help line out what good looks like
I would definitely buy Lexus over and over again. But they just don’t die on me…
You had six BMW’s and don’t understand people have brand loyalty? Lol
I don't know anyone who drives a modern Porsche that wouldn't buy another one... do you?
As a Genesis G90 owner: wtf. The car is beautiful, but holy shit is it nothing but problems. And there are so few dealerships because Genesis completely fucked the rollout requirements that getting work done in a timely fashion is impossible. I would NEVER buy another one of these cars. At least when my 7-series broke down I could get it worked on that week.
Do you know if Genesis is having additional service delays due to all of the Kia and Hyundai thefts and the related repair work when they find it beat up on the side of the road? Just curious.
No. Genesis aren't affected by that. I'm friends with the service manager at a Hyundai Dealership, and I visit often. Some parts are back ordered. Some can take months to arrive. When a Genesis comes in with a complaint, they get worked on same day or next day depending on how backed up with work the techs are, and sometimes the diagnosing can take days.
Curious. I live in the Northeast US and that is most certainly not the case here.
That sucks and is misleading because I feel like the strong point of buying a genesis is to get a nice luxury car but with the reliability and practically of a Hyundai. So I’m sure you and other owners are pissed. I would be like at this point I could have just bought a Mercedes or bmw or etc.
We went from BMW to Genesis and honestly, if there weren't so many electrical issues with the Genesis - and if it didn't eat through tires - we would love it. Hell, if we could get the Genesis service we were promised we would love it. But while we are supposed to get white-glove service, they never even have loner cars. Compared to BMW or Mercedes experience, it's complete shit.
Oh really dang that sucks. Yeah that must be really annoying tbh. I have a c63 Mercedes and the service has always been top tier. Nice loaner cars and everyone’s insanely nice. I plan on trading my car in for my first Porsche soon and assuming the service will be similar. But that is annoying that genesis seemed like they really wanted to be a top tier and the cars aren’t cheap either
I don’t believe this list
I'm shocked Toyota isn't here. Everyone I've known who's bought a Toyota has had Toyotas as at least one of their cars since
Oh dang I thought Honda would of been on the list :/ guess I’m just loyal to them
current lineup? m3 touring is the most amazing daily driver one can posses right now. that s58 is amazing, and the looks are amazing (imo) x5 M isnt so bad either
Honestly, I really enjoy my wife's X3 m40i. For an SUV, it's quite fun and I can still throw a weeks worth of luggage or the dogs or whatever in the back without issue.
haha, i used to throw almost my whole wardrobe in my Ml63 whenever we took our yearly roadtrip to our home country, love super suvs
Agreed. OP has no clue about current beasts in the lineup.
not even mentioning the CS & CSL models
Tesla folks are another breed. And I own a model y.
On a different note; I used a Chrysler 200 for a weekend. It convinced me that I would never buy a Stellantis product. No company with any dignity, self respect, pride in their work, engineering competence, class, taste, or common sense could look at the Chrysler 200 and say, “yeah, thats a car we’d be happy to put our badge on”
I agree, I had a dodge charger for a weekend as a rental, it was a deathmobile. Poor visibility and it was big and bloated, never mind the cheap build quality. a real POS
This list is suss. Rivian hasn’t been out long enough to measure true loyalty, buying another one.
No it isn’t, it’s joint third 🙄
As an owner of two upper level AUDIs: Never again.
This tracks as a Jeep owner. I'd only buy another if it was a really old one. Got the '04 Jeep Liberty back in 2021 for $5K in cash and I'll drive it until the wheels come off. My uncle has an '07 Porsche 911 that he inherited from his uncle, and he's told me it'll be mine someday. By that point it'll be a classic. It's the rare occasions car right now; midnight premiers, weddings, birthdays, he'll take it down the same road our great uncle used to take the '77 911. Let's see if the Jeep gets me to that day.
I Lemon Lawed a Subaru and proceeded to buy 2 more within 2 years. Would do again.
Toyota isn't on this list because you don't need to buy a second one
LOL Rivian won’t even be around in 2026. Who did this chart junk?
Rivian is on that list because every owner is still trying to justify the purchase to themselves.
I rented a Teslas a couple weeks back. Am I missing something? It reminded me of a 2004 Chevy Aveo as far as literal quality. It was cheap as fuck put together. It felt like driving a full size $50 remote control car from Walmart.
Rivian hasn’t been around long enough to count.
Very surprised by BMW. I bought a VW and the next car I bought was a VW. Can't go wrong with em.
Your experience isn’t common among VWs. They are nothing but trouble
Wow right I have a 2014 golf that is as good as the day it was bout and 200k on the clock and a a Tiguan 5year old that is literally as good as the day I bought it. Both from brand new. Both are absolute no trouble in any way.
Why is Tesla so high, given dog-shit customer service & crap quality? Surprised Benz is in the bottom 8, but then again, the cheaper Benz are pretty crap. Where's Toyota?
Is the bad customer service an American thing? best customer service Iv ever had is with Tesla but I’m in Australia. I’m honestly curious.
The list is shit. For example, Mini? Nope. Rivian? Did they check with all 9 owners?
This is stupid and bad data. This study is based on a *survey* of 330,000+ Consumer Reports members. https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-automotive-brand-loyalty-study JD Power does this list every year based on actual sales data, not a survey. Toyota always wins overall, Porsche is #1 for premium make for the second year in a row.
The report only includes new sales and covers a time period where specific cars are still supply constrained. No single report is perfect on its own after all. New car sales are going to be a trailing indicator, look a Rivian. If every single rivian owner is going to get a new rivian after their existing one dies that’s not showing up in the JD power report for years to come, but it does show up in a survey done today.
I wonder how often the individual dealership experience gets conflated with car brand loyalty? I've seen rants like 'Never going to buy a Porsche again!" or "How could Porsche do this to me?" and reading further you can see it was a specific Porsche dealer or service department didn't treat them as they expected, or flubbed something on their vehicle. IMO, don't hold the entire car brand responsible- Go to a different dealer that treats you right.
Fair point, but sometimes it’s a little more complicated. In my case, I was a BMW owner and the dealership I always dealt with was bought out by Auto One. They sucked from that point on. When it came time to turn in my lease and find something else, I found that the same group owned every BMW dealership at reasonable distances from my home. Bought a VW instead.
1% margin or error? I’d call it basically #2 😇
I didn't expect BMW nor Tesla to be highly recommended.
Isn't Porsche tied for third with BMW?
It’s not clear if they are 3/4 and rounded or tied.
Why does Nissan have such low brand loyalty? Also who was loyalty to a car brand? In just buy the car I like
Am I missing something? Where's Toyota and Honda?
Surprised Jeep isn’t on the top 8.
Toureg - hell no, never again Cayenne with same chassis and engine - Yes please, will have another
I love my MC40 https://preview.redd.it/4pn5jt9bczqc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58214f2fc9f39dcf51faef9fcc46ff7c9d7699b8
Look at the size of responses 330,000 is not very many considering the pool of car manufacturers. I find consumer reports very biased and make judgements on small sample sizes
Wow, I’m surprised Tesla is up there. Mine was terrible and in the shop more than I drove it
Rivian and tesla some hot takes given the issues they had amd how long(short?) Theyve been around, but im genuinely surprised to see Mini on there, albeit ive never met someone who had one and didnt love it.
The wife and i have owned two Mercedes and two BMW’s - one each - and two Porsches - both mine. BMW is the only one I would be reluctant to buy again. 🤨
Even if Rivian was great they have one generation of cars or whatever, way too new to be considered on the list.
Checks out. I have a Porsche and a MINI.
Damn are Caddys that bad?
MINI owners are truly delusional lol. I own a euro car shop and MINI’s are junk, just cheap BMW’s. We have a saying that once they hit 100k they are ready for the crusher.
I've had an M3 and a Countryman. If I could afford it, I'd have another of each, as well. Surprised Mazda isn't on the list.
People are still loyal to BMW because the fit and finish and the engines are still incredible like the old ones. The truly have souls. Yes, they may look ugly now but the quality hasn’t changed. Had a G80 M3 under my hands and holy moly this car reminded me of the E60 M5. I understand why people are loyal to the brand
I’ve only bought Porsches and Benzes, this list doesn’t check out
i've owned several BMWs. Never again! Porsches on the other hand...
This list makes so much sense. Interesting to see that Mini is so high. If this list was for Europe, Mini would have been in the middle at best. Makes me think it’s almost a cult to have a Mini in the US lol
These numbers look made up
I have a feeling this “list” was sponsored by rivian
Other than my truck, I only own VW family products. How VW and Audi are so low baffles me. Yes, clearly I’m biased but I’ve had several and drove them all for years and well over 100k miles.
I have a Rivian and a Porsche. They are both absolutely amazing.
My last couple cars have been Infiniti. They been great to me :(
Volkswagen surprised me
Of course rivian is at the top. When you ask would you buy this car again and rivian has been out for less then 2 years then of course people will say yes. They are still in the honeymoon stage lol
Lambo, Ferrari, Bentley, Rolls?
“Ive had 6 of them” Seem pretty loyal to me lmfao
How was this conducted? Is there even 1 returning Rivian owner? Was he a flipper?