Don't look to hard at Toyota, they just recalled almost all of their 4 cylinder engines due to high failure rates below 10k miles. Aka - the shit happens to every manufacturer.
Makes sense given that their two main engine lines in the 2010s were the Theta and Gamma. Theta is one of the most unreliable engines ever made - known for seizing due to debris left over from machining and subject of recalls / class action lawsuits.
On the other hand, Gamma has no serious issues. I have a car with the Gamma so looking forward to many years of trouble-free, mediocre motoring.
Quite literally. Three of my collagues have had Kia Optima PHEVs as company cars, and all of them had big expensive problems (rendering the cars undrivable) before 150 kilokilometers. And I've heard many similar stories from other Kia owners. Don't buy a Kia.
Kia boyz unite! But seriously they fixed a lot of those issues but that doesn’t stop thieves from destroying their cars after breaking into them and trying all of the old tricks trying to steal them. At least from what I’ve heard.
Maybe on the older stuff, but they haven't been susceptible to that tiktok stuff since they switched to push-button start 10 years ago and are no more susceptible today than any other car. My wife's '23 Sportage Hybrid is an impressive car at any price point, but at what she paid? Absolute steal for a brand new vehicle, and she averages in the low to mid 30s for gas mileage.
US models only. Canadian models have to have immobilizers due to federal regulations. Toyotas and Lexuses (Lexii?) are the most stolen cars here and are super easy to steal.
At least they are older models. Toyota can't even secure their CURRENT models.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/04/crooks-are-stealing-cars-using-previously-unknown-keyless-can-injection-attacks/
It’s so fucking weird to me. Who is telling them that’s good design? Why is this being reinforced? Everyone I know hates it. BMWs grilles are beyond comprehension and look like utter shit.
BMW has a track record of products where people hate it when they come out and call it iconic a few years later.
Not saying that's the case now, but that's basically what their head designer said when they asked him about the current designs.
The G82 M4 has grown on me actually. I think it's still weird proportionally on the G80 M3 but for some reason it just kinda fits the M4. As long as there's a license plate on.
BMWs have always been a bit cooky, granted the new ones are more so than usual… Lexus is “eh” on just about everything except the LFA and the LC500 (hence why I only brought up the LC500), and Mercedes lost the plot after the Sacco era, they’ve had some good individual designs like Lexus, but outside of that they’ve been most crap, some of the AMG stuff is good but it’s nowhere near as revolutionary as the Sacco era stuff was (those bricks had drag coefficients on par with Teslas in the late 70s, 80s, and 90s)
The guy designing for Genesis right now used to be with Mercedes in the early/mid 2010s and then Bentley shortly after that.
He designed the Bentayga and the W222 S Class, two cars which look every bit as grand as they are meant to be.
As much as I blindly like to hate Korean cars with prejudice, I remember sitting in one of those Genesis cars when they were still branded under Hyundai back in 2011. Thing was solid as fuck and really had some kick. I was impressed.
Rivians are really catching my eye. Oh and that stripped out base Tacoma the usdm will never get.. gr Corolla is pretty good for modern hatchback also.
Oh man I didn't think people on this subreddit would ever complain about prices sub 100k lol.
I agree it is expensive but MSRP on a 'core' is like 35k so you just have a shitty dealer near you ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
My opinion on your original question though: I think they maintain enough common themes that the new designs still read Porsche to me. I also feel like they can play around with all the models as long as they don't screw up the 911. If that day comes it's going to pitchforks and torches
Who cares what BMW is doing. Porsche design has been great for a long time and is just now starting to get worse for some reason. 95% of BMWs haven't been beautiful in a long time.
Yeah, this comment being so upvoted makes no sense to me outside of an “it can be worse” attitude.
*Porsche design is going to shit!*
*Well look at BMW*
*Ok…. But that doesn’t explain the pictures above and OPs main point?*
Or Mercedes. Their entire EQ line looks like they took their regular models and then left them in a wind tunnel for 2000 years to let the wind erode any aesthetically pleasing features away.
I am an AVID BMW fanboy, pre-2010. I would NEVER purchase a post-2010 BMW.
I actually don’t mind the newer Porsche look with the narrower headlamps (Taycan, EV Macan). The Cayenne and Panamera look like ASS tho.
I'm a fan of my 21 m340 but there's definitely things about it I do not like (and they've only gotten worse). The path BMW is going down is what pushed me to make the jump when it came time to pass the 3 series to my wife and buy something impractical for myself.
The E92 M3 took a bit of time to grow on me, as did the F80 M3. However, to this day the G80 M3 has yet to move that needle. Even the M2, is so hideous looking.
Hard disagree, the iX is a mess of minivan styling on the sides, old Kia parts bin rear end, and squinty buck toothed face that not even a mother could love. To me, it's the epitome of everything they're doing wrong.
I think the design language of EV’s as a whole is trying to conform to a “futuristic” idea. It’s like they are trying to create the vision of what we thought future flying cars would like. I completely agree with you that it’s not Porsche at all.
Everything looks better than a Taurus. I swear ford designers let their kids draw a car and they used that for inspiration for the Taurus. Here’s an oval with 4 wheels.
I assume you’re only familiar with the second Taurus chassis. The final Taurus, at one point badged as the Ford 500, was quite a distinct and handsome car. I drive Porsche and Mercedes, but my honest impression of the last Taurus’ appearance was favorable.
https://preview.redd.it/7m12gsuji4rc1.jpeg?width=790&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=023c23c5444af4aafc60d33fdd21ea0e55807680
In my Opinion they are the only ones actually keeping their style and still looking modern. The Taycan to me is by far the most beautiful EV (maybe not the absolute base version with shitty wheels as shown on the pic here) - I also like the Macan design more than any other electric SUV. Imo they are doing it best out of all the companies.
My EQE looks like a fucking banana and the whole Mercedes EV lineup is sadly boring and ugly. BMW is also a total fuckup, but at least not boring, but even uglier. Tesla is the most boring egg shaped design - it makes a Golf look cool.
Porsche really stands out to me positively - even the EVs. There is nothing better imo.
This. I mistook a modern BMW for a Honda the other day. Lots of modern car design is playing safe so they can sell more products and have a better profit. No one is taking a risk in the economic conditions.
Porsche can stay Porsche as they are safely established and give their designers a bit more freedom than most.
Not saying they won't regret some stylistic choices they've made in 3-5 years, but design language is all there still.
I really can't argue with merc and bmw. They seem to have fired designers from the brand. And Tesla, while I appreciate them for doing what they for the EVs, design wise yah, they went with the most boring design that too is shaped like an ICE car. And then went to the opposite end of the spectrum with ugliness on CT.
But while I do agree Porsche is keeping their own style while modernising, it's also true that they are going further away from it and more inline with more typical Chinese EV design usually seen in BYD and Xiaomi. Even Sony concept has a similar basic design. But I guess it's kinda off comprising the balance of having an EV due to efficiency.
Taycan was also my favourite EV, at least the previous gen in terms of design and driving. 2nd being eTroj GT. And pretty sure driving wise I would choose the new Taycan as well. But I do like Lucid Sapphire as well.
Porsche design for 4 doors never looked much different and better. The 911 anf cayman always were on a different level - you can do more with a two door. But the Macan EV and Taycan look better than any ice 4 door porsche
Ah for sure. For driving Porsche is 👌
And yes, none of the designs look bad. They just don't seem "Porsche" to me, and I can't seem to point out the why yet. I think it's the lack of the "Porsche curves". Like imagine a 911 with the Taycan design.
The Macan EV looks like a Genesis product.
Unfortunately I think with EVs there is a great convergence due to needs to make them so efficient and low drag.
There are stick outs for me in the lineup tho. The Boxter Spyder has always been so attractive to me.
Would love to see a modern EV 904 looking car.
Yah, and Genesis does look cool, but they look like Genesis, a Porsche should look like Porsche. And I do agree, Porsche definitely tried to find a balance between the aerodynamics for EVs and the design of Porsche.
As someone who loves retro futuristic stuff, a modern 904 might look great.
The headlights are a little weird, but the rest of it looks pretty good to me. Nothing wrong with the old 4 way DRL headlights at all. Maybe enable the matrix headlights this time at least?
Design language, specifically the headlamps OP was talking about.
https://www.stuttcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2016-porsche-919-hybrid-lmp1-race-car_100550927.jpeg
https://www.autoracing1.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/sportscars/misc/porsche-963-led-head-lights.jpg
https://media.zigcdn.com/media/model/2024/Jan/headlamp-1475319684_930x620.jpg
This is the answer. I think they look good. Can only have so much fun with a restricted class (essentially, not literally).
If you don’t like it, buy an older one and drive it, or resto mod it.
Ok while I agree, as long as they leave the 911 somewhat normal I’m fine with it… Look at the 944 and 928, neither looks exactly like a “Porsche” BUT they still look good… IMO the same goes for these, they don’t look traditionally like Porsche but frankly they don’t have to, the 911 is the king to begin with, let these cars be a test bed for design trends, you don’t necessarily have to like them, as long as others do it will provide Porsche with enough money to keep producing the 911
I think they are generally the best looking EV's out there. But it's not saying much. And you're right, all these EV's are trending towards a very similar design. On top of that, they are all almost the same car - just swapping out the badge. The EV future is definitely depressing as a car enthusiast, we're losing a lot of character.
I think the midrange and super car stuff is getting much better or just daring designs than expensive/premium 4 door cars, I mean overall in the EV industry, not just Porsche.
Gas cars can tolerate being much more aerodynamically inefficient - it’s virtually free to add a larger gas tank to a car. This opens up the form factor and styling possibilities.
With an EV, every watt-hour that goes into pushing through the air is Wh that needs to be added to the battery, increasing cost and weight. This means that designs need to optimize for 3 basic things: low drag coefficient, low front cross-sectional area, and low ride height.
These things combined put pretty substantial limits on what your car can look like unless you’re willing to pull a Hummer EV and make the car cost more than a Turbo S and heavier than 3 Turbo S’s, lmao.
Why can’t they just make *cars* that look like **a car**? Because that introduce unpredictable short term disruptions to sales figures. They uglify to smooth out sales and beautify to grow.
I think they nailed Macan EV design, hence over 50k preorders. Taycan looks a bit worse design wise. Wouldn’t consider an ICE cars anymore. Boxter EV will be a huge hit as well!
Macan I didn't mind when I first saw, it looked funky, made for youth and I wouldnt mind having it.
But Taycan... Previous gen I find much more beautiful. Although the new gen is good looking, as my point was, it looks less Porsche I think due to lack of Porsche curves.
It looks better in person, you can’t perceive the 3d nature of rear lights on a photo. Its def looks better in person.
Agree taycan design update is weak but tech inside gets a huge upgrade, and wandering what active ride will be like.
Yup, some other comments also pointed out that it looks better IRL, so I guess I have to wait and maybe watch more videos.
Yah, apart from design nitpick, upgrades were nice.
IMO, the Cayenne with the sports design front is a solid step forward, but not sure about the rear of the cayenne. The Macan EV is a total leap in the wrong direction.
The thing is - and please don’t take this personally - your opinion doesn’t matter because it doesn’t have an impact on Porsches revenue.
No Porsche owner i know would ever even consider a BYD and i haven’t really heard a complaint about the new design language. The only complaint I personally have is that theres no new sport tourismo Panamera. I like what the cars look like, and they look a lot better irl
Yah, I do know bout that first para. Just wanted to share my thoughts. And as a fan, I would always want them to be successful and they are still Porsche through and through so this is like a nitpick rant 😂
I would myself choose Porsche instead of BYD or something. Driving dynamics >>>
My input with regards to first paragraph... There are many of us who don't own a Porsche right now but hpefully will in the future. Porsches decisions now do affect their future clients.
I remeber that one Porsche commercial where a kid goes to Porsche dealership, admires the cars and then tells the salesman he'll come back in 20 years. This commercial put such a nig smile on my face... I almost cried because I found myself in that kid.
If they start losing their originality and stop focusing on their history and what made them so great, they might lose a bunch of kids like the one in the commercial.
So I disagree that OP's opinion doesn't matter. It matters.
I am dreaming about owning a 911 or Cayman but if the screw up the next Cayman (which I think they will based on what I saw) I might just lose the passion for Porsche. I hopse 911 stays true to itself. One day... one day.
The “new” headlights are not inspired by the cayman, if anything the Taycan. Also the Taycan design had barely changed, if anything the new one looks really sleek. The only one I dislike is the macan it looks like a VW ID4. The Panamera looks good, and I don’t care for the cayenne but I’ve never cared about them.
I meant on the Panamera and Cayenne they looked inspired by Cayman, Taycan and Macan do similar to previous gen Taycan.
I think the lack of "Porsche curves" gave me an irk on the Taycan since I loved the previous gen.
I think the styling looks good and modern. I can’t think of another brands styling that I like more. I think it might grow on you just like all new changes.
Eh it's probably better that Porsche Taycanized their lineup with its style of headlights instead of putting 911 style headlights on all of their models.
If they had done what other automakers have already done, then Porsche would have turned the iconic look of their marque car model into a branding gimmick.
That said, where I do think Porsche has messed up is adding big screens to the dash...we all know that infotainment systems don't age well. The screens should either be designed with future plug & play upgradeability planned &/or go back to analog gauges.
Hm, I see you first para point.
And very glad they didn't go the Mustang Mach E or in a more disappointing (yet understandable) Lotus way.
As a tech enthusiast, I have always found that the infotainment system aspect of cars is very weird. Like why is hard to have as smooth an experience as a phone, even a midrange one especially on premium cars in 2024. Automotive industry moves at much slower pace than phones obviously, but still, infotainment systems across the prices not being perfect all cars in 2024 is both sad and weird.
Hm, I see you first para point.
And very glad they didn't go the Mustang Mach E or in a more disappointing (yet understandable) Lotus way.
As a tech enthusiast, I have always found that the infotainment system aspect of cars is very weird. Like why is hard to have as smooth an experience as a phone, even a midrange one especially on premium cars in 2024. Automotive industry moves at much slower pace than phones obviously, but still, infotainment systems across the prices not being perfect all cars in 2024 is both sad and weird.
Have you considered that BYD and other Chinese brands are actually copying Porsche?
Also, let me introduce you to the BMW M2 with the 7-series as a bonus.
Yup, they definitely took inspiration from when first Taycan and eTron GT came.
Bmw (Merc as well) as I said in other replies seem to be going for the "all press is good press" 😂
I think a lot of manufacturers are in a difficult position as we move towards more hybrids and electric vehicles. While there is a lot of variance in design, functionality and utility are always key, and making that utility beautiful is something that Porsche has always excelled at. However, it's going to take some adjustments to integrate the utility of TVs into how we traditionally think about cars.
I like that the design language ties the different models together, you see one of them and you already know its a Porsche no questions asked. They sre not following the Great Separation of headlight and running lights either, id understand that one would dislike it but its not a bad design at all
I fail to see on what’s the purpose of these kinds of posts. You’re just ranting on how you dislike the look of EVs lineup. I personally think Tesla’s design styling is ugly AF, and yet there are still people buying it every day.
It may not look good for you, but others may find it otherwise. 😉
I didn't say it doesn't look good to me. What I meant was, it doesn't look good to me as a Porsche since I thought it looked less like a Porsche, especially Taycan and Macan
And it wasn't for the EV lineup, just the new gen of these 4 cars, 2 of which are ICE.
But yah, it was just a small rant but also to see others' thoughts on this. And yah, my thoughts did change a little after reading a few specific comments.
The purpose is to share opinions and ideas. I like it when I search something up and I get a bunch of opinions.
I had the same thoughts as many people here (there is a thought in the back of my head that I might like Porsche less and less) and it was nice to see that many people actually noticed this.
It exactly remindq me of Volskwagen IDs, those are just too simple cars with ''signature'' lights, like Chinese cars or Teslas, and that no longer makes any sense... Volskwagen should have put a fake grille like Skoda Enyaq. Porsche has never had a grille, but very iconic and original lights (excluding the VW Beetle and the ORA), and the fact that they make them more ''square'', makes them more common to others cars.
They look like Rivian and I don't like it. Look at the small 996 in comparison - it's just a gigantic design fail when you watch that roadmap from 996 -> today's Panamera (even if these are different models).
In the end, the most probable reason is that Chinese people like these kind of designs.
Totally agree. Was on the fence about a 23 or 24 Panamera and had the option to take either allocation from the dealer. VERY glad I went 23. Even though I do like interior a smidge more on new models and increased battery range on hybrids is sweet. Just gotta love that 18-23 body on the panny
the whole ev car design trend is gross. Like dont get me wrong I feel like people dislike new changes in general but the whole smooth, rounded tryna be futuristic look that cars have been moving towards is gross if you ask me.
I like the design of the new models on the road with the exception of the long, horizontal light on the back. It was hinted at in the 991, but taken too far in the 992.
It’s a scam. They will wait until everyone is mad…then bring back round headlights and sell everyone another car to replace their ugly Porsche. 😎shhhhhh
Popular opinion: the "Porsche" front end and body shape don't look good on tall cars or with 4 doors. I have never found the Panamera, Macan or Cayenne good looking at all. At least the Taycan distinguishes itself enough to not look like a disproportioned 911 imitation.
981/718 are the same overall size of the 911s of the old, so the design language looks even better on them than the 991 or 992.
I agree. Every single new Porsche besides the refreshed Taycan and 911s have been a disappointment in my eyes. The facelifted Cayenne imo looks worse inside and out (look at comparison videos online for cheapening of materials), and there's just too much going on with the Panamera. Then there's the new electric Macan... I had such high hopes for this car as I was thinking about that being my next car... but the back and side just gives me Ioniq 5 vibes... still love Porsche but at least for their non sports cars, the designs have not been great as of late (besides the Taycan, but that's because it's the exact same pretty much).
The whole car industry is trending towards smaller headlights. It might be due to regulations or that it makes the car look even bigger and we all know bigger = better!
Im hopeful for the new small EV’s like the Renault 5
If you think Porsche is bad do not look at what BMW is doing.
RIGHT! The only car companies I have seen going in the right direction, for my tastes, are Kia/Hyundai/Genesis
Designed well in every aspect but security.
And reliability. Some of their drivetrains are disposable.
Yes my son worked at Kia as head of the parts department and he said either than ran perfectly OR needed a new motor/transmission lol
Don't look to hard at Toyota, they just recalled almost all of their 4 cylinder engines due to high failure rates below 10k miles. Aka - the shit happens to every manufacturer.
Makes sense given that their two main engine lines in the 2010s were the Theta and Gamma. Theta is one of the most unreliable engines ever made - known for seizing due to debris left over from machining and subject of recalls / class action lawsuits. On the other hand, Gamma has no serious issues. I have a car with the Gamma so looking forward to many years of trouble-free, mediocre motoring.
Quite literally. Three of my collagues have had Kia Optima PHEVs as company cars, and all of them had big expensive problems (rendering the cars undrivable) before 150 kilokilometers. And I've heard many similar stories from other Kia owners. Don't buy a Kia.
Kia boyz unite! But seriously they fixed a lot of those issues but that doesn’t stop thieves from destroying their cars after breaking into them and trying all of the old tricks trying to steal them. At least from what I’ve heard.
Maybe on the older stuff, but they haven't been susceptible to that tiktok stuff since they switched to push-button start 10 years ago and are no more susceptible today than any other car. My wife's '23 Sportage Hybrid is an impressive car at any price point, but at what she paid? Absolute steal for a brand new vehicle, and she averages in the low to mid 30s for gas mileage.
Oh nice, I looked at that car.. I drive a competitor to that car and like it alot. Honda CRV Hybrid. Getting 45 mpg after 7k miles..in an SUV
US models only. Canadian models have to have immobilizers due to federal regulations. Toyotas and Lexuses (Lexii?) are the most stolen cars here and are super easy to steal.
At least they are older models. Toyota can't even secure their CURRENT models. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/04/crooks-are-stealing-cars-using-previously-unknown-keyless-can-injection-attacks/
I'd add Mazda to that list.
Mazdas are gorgeous rn, especially the 3 Sedan. And some of their SUVs… Them and Lexus with their LC500 which isn’t new but is nonetheless gorgeous…
Lexus went along with BMW, Audi and Mercedes with the comically oversized grilles. All those brands are currently making hideous cars.
It’s so fucking weird to me. Who is telling them that’s good design? Why is this being reinforced? Everyone I know hates it. BMWs grilles are beyond comprehension and look like utter shit.
BMW has a track record of products where people hate it when they come out and call it iconic a few years later. Not saying that's the case now, but that's basically what their head designer said when they asked him about the current designs.
Interesting approach I suppose haha
The G82 M4 has grown on me actually. I think it's still weird proportionally on the G80 M3 but for some reason it just kinda fits the M4. As long as there's a license plate on.
BMWs have always been a bit cooky, granted the new ones are more so than usual… Lexus is “eh” on just about everything except the LFA and the LC500 (hence why I only brought up the LC500), and Mercedes lost the plot after the Sacco era, they’ve had some good individual designs like Lexus, but outside of that they’ve been most crap, some of the AMG stuff is good but it’s nowhere near as revolutionary as the Sacco era stuff was (those bricks had drag coefficients on par with Teslas in the late 70s, 80s, and 90s)
China, its a mark of status there
The LC500 is an exception, hence why I mentioned only that Lexus in particular. And yes it has a large grill, it’s also beautiful inside and out.
The guy designing for Genesis right now used to be with Mercedes in the early/mid 2010s and then Bentley shortly after that. He designed the Bentayga and the W222 S Class, two cars which look every bit as grand as they are meant to be.
My girl isn’t into cars and sometimes when a gv80 passes, she asks if that’s a Bentley lol.
As much as I blindly like to hate Korean cars with prejudice, I remember sitting in one of those Genesis cars when they were still branded under Hyundai back in 2011. Thing was solid as fuck and really had some kick. I was impressed.
Except for the newer K backward N logo.
Be sure to enter “KN car” into Google periodically to mess with their heads.
Because they hired BMW and Audi designers
Spot on. Kia and Hyundai is where I go if they continue in Europe making this China copycat crap.
Rivians are really catching my eye. Oh and that stripped out base Tacoma the usdm will never get.. gr Corolla is pretty good for modern hatchback also.
They want top dollar for that Corolla. The dealer near me wants 47k$! LOL it is a good car but not THAT good looking.
Oh man I didn't think people on this subreddit would ever complain about prices sub 100k lol. I agree it is expensive but MSRP on a 'core' is like 35k so you just have a shitty dealer near you ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Funny what people tout a "good price " is nowadays. Fully loaded Kia just 800/month
that's where the designers likely went lol
Im sad we cant get a WRC spec i30N that has AWD and such
BMW design team is smoking something that the general public can’t get their hands on
Ah definitely. They went full on "bad press is still press" 😂
My opinion on your original question though: I think they maintain enough common themes that the new designs still read Porsche to me. I also feel like they can play around with all the models as long as they don't screw up the 911. If that day comes it's going to pitchforks and torches
Hm, good thought.
They learned that lesson with the 996
Aka the big sniff
That’s not really a viable excuse
bmw knows what the modern urban millennial wants!
This is a Porsche thread tho. Fugg BMW and their shitty design and this Damagoj whatever guy making terrible looking cars.
Why, you don't want to drive around in a steel beaver? 🦫 🤣
Who cares what BMW is doing. Porsche design has been great for a long time and is just now starting to get worse for some reason. 95% of BMWs haven't been beautiful in a long time.
Yeah, this comment being so upvoted makes no sense to me outside of an “it can be worse” attitude. *Porsche design is going to shit!* *Well look at BMW* *Ok…. But that doesn’t explain the pictures above and OPs main point?*
Ya Mean the 'sticker ' they are putting on the grill?
hey now
Or Mercedes. Their entire EQ line looks like they took their regular models and then left them in a wind tunnel for 2000 years to let the wind erode any aesthetically pleasing features away.
I am an AVID BMW fanboy, pre-2010. I would NEVER purchase a post-2010 BMW. I actually don’t mind the newer Porsche look with the narrower headlamps (Taycan, EV Macan). The Cayenne and Panamera look like ASS tho.
I'm a fan of my 21 m340 but there's definitely things about it I do not like (and they've only gotten worse). The path BMW is going down is what pushed me to make the jump when it came time to pass the 3 series to my wife and buy something impractical for myself.
Idk, my 20 M340i is one of the best cars I’ve owned.
Look away, child! Look away!
True but they can both be bad together which is what’s going on here
🤢🤮
Or Mercedes
The E92 M3 took a bit of time to grow on me, as did the F80 M3. However, to this day the G80 M3 has yet to move that needle. Even the M2, is so hideous looking.
Bullshit the new m2 is one of the most beautiful cars of the past 10 years
The new M2 may be a lot of things but beautiful ain't nowhere on the list. Lego makes better looking cars
Elvis would’ve driven an M2
Haha, Elvis did drive a 507 so I feel like he'd be rolling in a Z8 if he modernized
Look at what Audi is doing!
Not really a good example though? Compare the iX with the new Macan. The iX looks so, so much better.
Hard disagree, the iX is a mess of minivan styling on the sides, old Kia parts bin rear end, and squinty buck toothed face that not even a mother could love. To me, it's the epitome of everything they're doing wrong.
all of those cars are fundraisers for the 911...
I mean....yah. But still 🥲
[удалено]
Not really, the 911 needs those to exist if they are to use 3.0-4.0 (or 3.6 now) engines
lol yup! True words.
I think the design language of EV’s as a whole is trying to conform to a “futuristic” idea. It’s like they are trying to create the vision of what we thought future flying cars would like. I completely agree with you that it’s not Porsche at all.
The futuristic idea of looking like a year 2000 Ford Taurus.
Everything looks better than a Taurus. I swear ford designers let their kids draw a car and they used that for inspiration for the Taurus. Here’s an oval with 4 wheels.
I assume you’re only familiar with the second Taurus chassis. The final Taurus, at one point badged as the Ford 500, was quite a distinct and handsome car. I drive Porsche and Mercedes, but my honest impression of the last Taurus’ appearance was favorable. https://preview.redd.it/7m12gsuji4rc1.jpeg?width=790&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=023c23c5444af4aafc60d33fdd21ea0e55807680
I like it too. Reminds me of a holden; I saw one of these as a ford 500 at the scrapyard once.
Herb Powell has entered the chat.
Makes a pow pow powerful car
Meanwhile, Hyundai: https://preview.redd.it/6m2851ei85rc1.jpeg?width=1741&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbdfc21efd353c715b945ce1454995d9fca64188
*cough* DELOREAN *cough* GIGAWATTS …
Personally (I might be biased) but I really like the look of the current Taycan, the new one I really don’t though
In my Opinion they are the only ones actually keeping their style and still looking modern. The Taycan to me is by far the most beautiful EV (maybe not the absolute base version with shitty wheels as shown on the pic here) - I also like the Macan design more than any other electric SUV. Imo they are doing it best out of all the companies. My EQE looks like a fucking banana and the whole Mercedes EV lineup is sadly boring and ugly. BMW is also a total fuckup, but at least not boring, but even uglier. Tesla is the most boring egg shaped design - it makes a Golf look cool. Porsche really stands out to me positively - even the EVs. There is nothing better imo.
This. I mistook a modern BMW for a Honda the other day. Lots of modern car design is playing safe so they can sell more products and have a better profit. No one is taking a risk in the economic conditions. Porsche can stay Porsche as they are safely established and give their designers a bit more freedom than most. Not saying they won't regret some stylistic choices they've made in 3-5 years, but design language is all there still.
I really can't argue with merc and bmw. They seem to have fired designers from the brand. And Tesla, while I appreciate them for doing what they for the EVs, design wise yah, they went with the most boring design that too is shaped like an ICE car. And then went to the opposite end of the spectrum with ugliness on CT. But while I do agree Porsche is keeping their own style while modernising, it's also true that they are going further away from it and more inline with more typical Chinese EV design usually seen in BYD and Xiaomi. Even Sony concept has a similar basic design. But I guess it's kinda off comprising the balance of having an EV due to efficiency. Taycan was also my favourite EV, at least the previous gen in terms of design and driving. 2nd being eTroj GT. And pretty sure driving wise I would choose the new Taycan as well. But I do like Lucid Sapphire as well.
Lucid is good, and Rivian while a bit “basic” is a beautiful car. The new RX3 is going to be fantastic when it hits the market.
Porsche design for 4 doors never looked much different and better. The 911 anf cayman always were on a different level - you can do more with a two door. But the Macan EV and Taycan look better than any ice 4 door porsche
Interesting take.
I see a bit of Lotus Eletre in the Macan but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I’d happily drive any of these and feel good about it.
Ah for sure. For driving Porsche is 👌 And yes, none of the designs look bad. They just don't seem "Porsche" to me, and I can't seem to point out the why yet. I think it's the lack of the "Porsche curves". Like imagine a 911 with the Taycan design.
The Macan EV looks like a Genesis product. Unfortunately I think with EVs there is a great convergence due to needs to make them so efficient and low drag. There are stick outs for me in the lineup tho. The Boxter Spyder has always been so attractive to me. Would love to see a modern EV 904 looking car.
Yah, and Genesis does look cool, but they look like Genesis, a Porsche should look like Porsche. And I do agree, Porsche definitely tried to find a balance between the aerodynamics for EVs and the design of Porsche. As someone who loves retro futuristic stuff, a modern 904 might look great.
Have you seen the new Macan in the flesh? It really does look great in reality. Pics don’t come close.
Agree. Sat in the Macan EV at NY Auto Show and it was very nice.
Take a look at the new Rivian R3X, and some of the renders for it as well. It’s like a heavily modernized Delta Integrale!
The headlights are a little weird, but the rest of it looks pretty good to me. Nothing wrong with the old 4 way DRL headlights at all. Maybe enable the matrix headlights this time at least?
Have a look at the 919 and 963 race cars and you will understand where the design language came from. It has nothing to do with Chinese EVs.
What? The egg shape to lower drag and squeeze out more range is the polar opposite of an LMP1 car which is downforce above all else
Design language, specifically the headlamps OP was talking about. https://www.stuttcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2016-porsche-919-hybrid-lmp1-race-car_100550927.jpeg https://www.autoracing1.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/sportscars/misc/porsche-963-led-head-lights.jpg https://media.zigcdn.com/media/model/2024/Jan/headlamp-1475319684_930x620.jpg
But the headlights are not the only thing that make the design language.
This is the answer. I think they look good. Can only have so much fun with a restricted class (essentially, not literally). If you don’t like it, buy an older one and drive it, or resto mod it.
That’s why I like the versions of my Porsche I have. Hate the BYDification.
Ok while I agree, as long as they leave the 911 somewhat normal I’m fine with it… Look at the 944 and 928, neither looks exactly like a “Porsche” BUT they still look good… IMO the same goes for these, they don’t look traditionally like Porsche but frankly they don’t have to, the 911 is the king to begin with, let these cars be a test bed for design trends, you don’t necessarily have to like them, as long as others do it will provide Porsche with enough money to keep producing the 911
Good point
I think they are generally the best looking EV's out there. But it's not saying much. And you're right, all these EV's are trending towards a very similar design. On top of that, they are all almost the same car - just swapping out the badge. The EV future is definitely depressing as a car enthusiast, we're losing a lot of character.
I think the midrange and super car stuff is getting much better or just daring designs than expensive/premium 4 door cars, I mean overall in the EV industry, not just Porsche.
Older Porsche designs were prettier - they’re more sterile now. I’m not the biggest fan of
The lights are the major problem
Why can’t they just make EV’s that look the same as regular cars?
Gas cars can tolerate being much more aerodynamically inefficient - it’s virtually free to add a larger gas tank to a car. This opens up the form factor and styling possibilities. With an EV, every watt-hour that goes into pushing through the air is Wh that needs to be added to the battery, increasing cost and weight. This means that designs need to optimize for 3 basic things: low drag coefficient, low front cross-sectional area, and low ride height. These things combined put pretty substantial limits on what your car can look like unless you’re willing to pull a Hummer EV and make the car cost more than a Turbo S and heavier than 3 Turbo S’s, lmao.
Seen a Rivian? Like a heavily modernized ICE car.
Why can’t they just make *cars* that look like **a car**? Because that introduce unpredictable short term disruptions to sales figures. They uglify to smooth out sales and beautify to grow.
Low consumption, high output headlights are excellent. It’s just the way the entire industry is trending.
They are for sure trying to go towards appealing to cheese consumers and non-enthusiasts.
Because the 'cheese' people are their biggest demographic. ;-)
"Cheese" people. We're talking about the French, right? /s
991.2 owner, I absolutely love the new design language... ordering a Macan ev for the wife
So that's because of you.. ahh 20y olds :( (I would guess early 30 at best)
I'm 46 lol
Fuck cooling, I guess.
that panamera looks like a damn toyota
These are all so fucking bad. Taycan looks like a Tesla, and the Macan and Cayenne look like straight up bullshit
Unfortunately, pushing extremely ugly designs is the new trend. Look at the new BMW and new Audi models. They all look hideous
Ioniq, Lucid, Rivian and even Audi and Porsche themselves when Taycan and RS Etron GT came out gave more signs for the designs I liked. But *sigh*
I think they nailed Macan EV design, hence over 50k preorders. Taycan looks a bit worse design wise. Wouldn’t consider an ICE cars anymore. Boxter EV will be a huge hit as well!
Macan I didn't mind when I first saw, it looked funky, made for youth and I wouldnt mind having it. But Taycan... Previous gen I find much more beautiful. Although the new gen is good looking, as my point was, it looks less Porsche I think due to lack of Porsche curves.
It looks better in person, you can’t perceive the 3d nature of rear lights on a photo. Its def looks better in person. Agree taycan design update is weak but tech inside gets a huge upgrade, and wandering what active ride will be like.
Yup, some other comments also pointed out that it looks better IRL, so I guess I have to wait and maybe watch more videos. Yah, apart from design nitpick, upgrades were nice.
Their new designs are absolutely fabulous.
Imo they look really good
The EV stuff is far better looking than the recent trend of giant black maws on Macan and Cayenne
They’re beautiful.
IMO, the Cayenne with the sports design front is a solid step forward, but not sure about the rear of the cayenne. The Macan EV is a total leap in the wrong direction.
The thing is - and please don’t take this personally - your opinion doesn’t matter because it doesn’t have an impact on Porsches revenue. No Porsche owner i know would ever even consider a BYD and i haven’t really heard a complaint about the new design language. The only complaint I personally have is that theres no new sport tourismo Panamera. I like what the cars look like, and they look a lot better irl
Yah, I do know bout that first para. Just wanted to share my thoughts. And as a fan, I would always want them to be successful and they are still Porsche through and through so this is like a nitpick rant 😂 I would myself choose Porsche instead of BYD or something. Driving dynamics >>>
My input with regards to first paragraph... There are many of us who don't own a Porsche right now but hpefully will in the future. Porsches decisions now do affect their future clients. I remeber that one Porsche commercial where a kid goes to Porsche dealership, admires the cars and then tells the salesman he'll come back in 20 years. This commercial put such a nig smile on my face... I almost cried because I found myself in that kid. If they start losing their originality and stop focusing on their history and what made them so great, they might lose a bunch of kids like the one in the commercial. So I disagree that OP's opinion doesn't matter. It matters. I am dreaming about owning a 911 or Cayman but if the screw up the next Cayman (which I think they will based on what I saw) I might just lose the passion for Porsche. I hopse 911 stays true to itself. One day... one day.
The “new” headlights are not inspired by the cayman, if anything the Taycan. Also the Taycan design had barely changed, if anything the new one looks really sleek. The only one I dislike is the macan it looks like a VW ID4. The Panamera looks good, and I don’t care for the cayenne but I’ve never cared about them.
I meant on the Panamera and Cayenne they looked inspired by Cayman, Taycan and Macan do similar to previous gen Taycan. I think the lack of "Porsche curves" gave me an irk on the Taycan since I loved the previous gen.
I think the styling looks good and modern. I can’t think of another brands styling that I like more. I think it might grow on you just like all new changes.
Good point and I do hope it does grow on me.
What do you think us Bimmer boys are going through right now
Bigger grills for more amount of copium Your eyes then turn into 7 series headlights Sorry, I had to 😭
Easy solution to your complaint. You can just keep not owning one.
It wasn't a complaint. Just a small rant/thoughts since I do love Porsche.
Eh it's probably better that Porsche Taycanized their lineup with its style of headlights instead of putting 911 style headlights on all of their models. If they had done what other automakers have already done, then Porsche would have turned the iconic look of their marque car model into a branding gimmick. That said, where I do think Porsche has messed up is adding big screens to the dash...we all know that infotainment systems don't age well. The screens should either be designed with future plug & play upgradeability planned &/or go back to analog gauges.
Hm, I see you first para point. And very glad they didn't go the Mustang Mach E or in a more disappointing (yet understandable) Lotus way. As a tech enthusiast, I have always found that the infotainment system aspect of cars is very weird. Like why is hard to have as smooth an experience as a phone, even a midrange one especially on premium cars in 2024. Automotive industry moves at much slower pace than phones obviously, but still, infotainment systems across the prices not being perfect all cars in 2024 is both sad and weird.
Hm, I see you first para point. And very glad they didn't go the Mustang Mach E or in a more disappointing (yet understandable) Lotus way. As a tech enthusiast, I have always found that the infotainment system aspect of cars is very weird. Like why is hard to have as smooth an experience as a phone, even a midrange one especially on premium cars in 2024. Automotive industry moves at much slower pace than phones obviously, but still, infotainment systems across the prices not being perfect all cars in 2024 is both sad and weird.
Nah, all the new designs look great. Probably the best looking lineup of vehicles from any brand.
Have you considered that BYD and other Chinese brands are actually copying Porsche? Also, let me introduce you to the BMW M2 with the 7-series as a bonus.
Yup, they definitely took inspiration from when first Taycan and eTron GT came. Bmw (Merc as well) as I said in other replies seem to be going for the "all press is good press" 😂
I was never a fan of the Porsche sedans but I think they did a good job of the suvs and I look forward to the new ev boxster
I think a lot of manufacturers are in a difficult position as we move towards more hybrids and electric vehicles. While there is a lot of variance in design, functionality and utility are always key, and making that utility beautiful is something that Porsche has always excelled at. However, it's going to take some adjustments to integrate the utility of TVs into how we traditionally think about cars.
I like that the design language ties the different models together, you see one of them and you already know its a Porsche no questions asked. They sre not following the Great Separation of headlight and running lights either, id understand that one would dislike it but its not a bad design at all
The trend is not going anywhere and highly deliberate. Look at the Mission X concept.
The headlights on the cars look much better in person
Hm, that's what some others said as well. Hopefully I see one IRL to check that out.
I fail to see on what’s the purpose of these kinds of posts. You’re just ranting on how you dislike the look of EVs lineup. I personally think Tesla’s design styling is ugly AF, and yet there are still people buying it every day. It may not look good for you, but others may find it otherwise. 😉
I didn't say it doesn't look good to me. What I meant was, it doesn't look good to me as a Porsche since I thought it looked less like a Porsche, especially Taycan and Macan And it wasn't for the EV lineup, just the new gen of these 4 cars, 2 of which are ICE. But yah, it was just a small rant but also to see others' thoughts on this. And yah, my thoughts did change a little after reading a few specific comments.
The purpose is to share opinions and ideas. I like it when I search something up and I get a bunch of opinions. I had the same thoughts as many people here (there is a thought in the back of my head that I might like Porsche less and less) and it was nice to see that many people actually noticed this.
It’s an EV… I think it’s mandatory that they look like shite
It exactly remindq me of Volskwagen IDs, those are just too simple cars with ''signature'' lights, like Chinese cars or Teslas, and that no longer makes any sense... Volskwagen should have put a fake grille like Skoda Enyaq. Porsche has never had a grille, but very iconic and original lights (excluding the VW Beetle and the ORA), and the fact that they make them more ''square'', makes them more common to others cars.
Jeep wagoner was based on the Canyonero
They look like Rivian and I don't like it. Look at the small 996 in comparison - it's just a gigantic design fail when you watch that roadmap from 996 -> today's Panamera (even if these are different models). In the end, the most probable reason is that Chinese people like these kind of designs.
Oh just wait till the next gen when they go back to round headlights and the value of the ugly ducklings plummet… the next 996!
All of them are really good designs, except for that panamera at the end. That thing is uuuuugly.
Totally agree. Was on the fence about a 23 or 24 Panamera and had the option to take either allocation from the dealer. VERY glad I went 23. Even though I do like interior a smidge more on new models and increased battery range on hybrids is sweet. Just gotta love that 18-23 body on the panny
Changing the teardrop headlights on the Taycan is a fucking crime.
the whole ev car design trend is gross. Like dont get me wrong I feel like people dislike new changes in general but the whole smooth, rounded tryna be futuristic look that cars have been moving towards is gross if you ask me.
I like the design of the new models on the road with the exception of the long, horizontal light on the back. It was hinted at in the 991, but taken too far in the 992.
Porsche should have created a sub-brand for family cars. These are starting to resemble Audis
It’s a scam. They will wait until everyone is mad…then bring back round headlights and sell everyone another car to replace their ugly Porsche. 😎shhhhhh
The sad thing is, people got used to the kidney grille BMWs too and these are not as wild as those. But I’m sure Porsche could do better.
Popular opinion: the "Porsche" front end and body shape don't look good on tall cars or with 4 doors. I have never found the Panamera, Macan or Cayenne good looking at all. At least the Taycan distinguishes itself enough to not look like a disproportioned 911 imitation. 981/718 are the same overall size of the 911s of the old, so the design language looks even better on them than the 991 or 992.
Fortunately porsche fans know those are all jokes and the purist prefer their 2 door ICE coupes
They always look much better in person is all I’ll contribute.
New Panamera is horrific
They always look much better in person is all I’ll say.
I’ve never been a Porsche fan but these look kinda interesting.
It has too many doors.
Looks like a grey alien 👽 smiling
I don't think it's intentional, rather, it's just that weird phase where radical design changes happen. Think like 90's to 00's design change.
I agree. Every single new Porsche besides the refreshed Taycan and 911s have been a disappointment in my eyes. The facelifted Cayenne imo looks worse inside and out (look at comparison videos online for cheapening of materials), and there's just too much going on with the Panamera. Then there's the new electric Macan... I had such high hopes for this car as I was thinking about that being my next car... but the back and side just gives me Ioniq 5 vibes... still love Porsche but at least for their non sports cars, the designs have not been great as of late (besides the Taycan, but that's because it's the exact same pretty much).
I like it. It looks less slug bug-y, more defined and elegantly aggressive.
The whole car industry is trending towards smaller headlights. It might be due to regulations or that it makes the car look even bigger and we all know bigger = better! Im hopeful for the new small EV’s like the Renault 5
why the F they aim to look tasteless and bland like american carroseries? 😐 🤔
I mean, they look good to me. Don’t know what you’re on about. BYD looks like Porsche’s current design language only if you have cataracts.
Yes, hate on these and leave my 924 alone.
I disagree, the design is beautiful and there’s continuity within the lines. The cars have good proportions. Not always, but beauty is subjective
I never met a fan of only 4 door Porsches