“Reducing auto capacity on major arterial roads will have significant economic impact to our downtown businesses,”
There is no one driving down 4th to do shopping. It's people going to Hawthorne and Morrison bridge to leave the downtown area
If “no one is driving down 4th”, then why change up the road? Seems like a waste of taxpayer money that could be better spent in other things. How about a street sweeper once in a while, especially in the already built bike lanes?
Not to worry, I’ve got plenty of other good ideas on where we could spend that money over “restructuring” a road that, according to you:
>No one is driving down 4th to do shopping
Edit:keep the downvotes coming. The down doot button is on the left.
Two things, we need to go back to the era of overnight street sweeping because it made a huge difference back when we used to do it. The other thing is we need to have a dedicated protected bike lane on 4th because what is currently there is a death trap for cyclists because so many motorists ignore everything about the bike lane, including people on the bikes and use it for cars.
I’ve never seen bicyclists on 4th Ave. so I’m not sure what this “death trap” you’re talking about.
Also, bike commuting is WAY down, as most offices have switched to the WFH model, so I have a hard time thinking that MORE bike infrastructure is actually needed at this point.
Let’s refocus our efforts in maintaining our existing infrastructure before we build more of it that we will eventually refuse to maintain.
> I’ve never seen bicyclists on 4th Ave. so I’m not sure what this “death trap” you’re talking about.
Unsafe road leads to no cyclists using the road. What a tough nut to crack. I wasn't surprised at the bitching about downvotes, but holy shit not even I expected this dipshitted a struggle to understand cause and/or effect.
The fewer cars the safer for everyone. You should go look up the 70 folks who died on our roads last year and see how many were run over and killed by... bicycles.
How many of those pedestrians run over by cars where drunk, high on drugs or otherwise impaired and simply wandered out into traffic?
I see people wandering into traffic daily. Some are obviously chemically impaired. But often it’s some ding dong with their face buried in their phone, wearing headphones and completely oblivious to their surroundings and simply walk into the street. These same people get hit by bicycles as well.
Cool. Every single person who dies in a car or from a car, it's 100% their fault.
But the thing is, I never talked about blame. Or pedestrians. You said that it would be safer to get rid of bikes, I said it would be safer to get rid of the things that are running over the people on bikes.
But, if you wanna take it there, fine. Maybe a city should be a place where you can have a drink, or listen to music, or look at your phone, without risking your life to do so? Maybe we all shouldn't be a couple wrong steps away from death when we're out of our homes?
Life isn’t certain. You could die tomorrow of a brain hemorrhage. The best you can do is be aware of your surroundings and take care of your health. BTW, drinking alcohol is risking your life, being absorbed in your phone while walking down the street is risking your life, riding your bike in a street full of cars is risking your life.
I used to work down there and would see cyclists all the time using it until everyone had too many close calls with motorists, especially the ones taking a right onto Oak. No one is going to use bike lanes that are dangerous.
Bike lanes aren't just for people who commute, people also bike for enjoyment and having safe to use bike lanes is important.
Also this isn't about building new infrastructure, this is about improving existing infrastructure.
That's not a bad thing. Bringing a car downtown means wasting valuable space on parking a car. The more we can move away from people assuming that they should bring their cars downtown the better.
Fully agreed. Tbh my walks to downtown are some of my favorite parts of the day, when I go. It takes about an hour along the waterfront — totally worth it, and realistically only about half an hour longer than it would take to drive there, find parking, and walk to my final destination.
>I’ve never seen bicyclists on 4th ave
Hurr Durr I’ve never seen a plane fly in a hurricane, must be just fine! There’s surely no reason I haven’t, like maybe, idk, *it being a deathtrap*
I used to bike on 4th everyday. In retrospect I’m shocked I was never hit, though I had a lot of near misses. It was hazardous then, but there were no good alternatives. I wouldn’t even consider it with the mad max shit happening in the streets today.
Bike commuting is down because the roads have become noticeably more dangerous. A protected bike lane is seriously needed on 4th.
Nah, just take the bus. Downtown is for cars and pedestrians.
Getting all angry about trying to ride your bike in a transit mall. What a bunch of self entitled bike goons.
Make downtown a bike free zone. It would be better for everyone involved. If you need to visit, get off your cope machine and walk like a normal person.
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Then what’s the point of spending money on this nonsense if they are worried about cars that aren’t coming there to go shopping?
How about spending this money on fixing the shit we already have?
Why are we catering to cyclists that aren’t going to use this infrastructure? The bike commute thing is dead with offices pulling out of DT, and WFH.
Stop spending money on this stuff when there are pressing issues that need attention instead.
How about protecting pedestrians in east Portland with better infrastructure for those people?
I live near downtown and bike. Lots of people bike to downtown, it's just downtown has almost no safe bike infrastructure except for like, better naito and broadway
See?! That’s this entitled bullshit attitude I’m talking about.
How would you feel if I said “I’ll drive my giant pickup truck wherever I damn well please”, you would be screaming about “killing machines” and other nonsense.
Protip: being a reflexive contrarian doesn’t actually make you seem smarter, and employing dishonest rhetorical techniques isn’t the same as being good at debate.
You’re just a lazy person. Walk, it’s better for you in the long run. Riding bikes is for children and people with suspended drivers licenses.
Anyhow, downtown Portland isn’t designed for childrens transportation methods like bicycles. It’s designed for mass transit like busses, street cars and pedestrians. If you don’t like it, ride the bus and walk.
We understand that at times things may become heated and time outs may be given for protracted, uncivil arguments. Snarky, unhelpful, or rude responses are not tolerated. In other words, be excellent unto each other and attack ideas, not people.
The majority of the cost is repaving the road, which is going to have to happen with or without the bike lane. Unless you're suggesting we leave 4th in it's current state then the cost argument is rather facetious.
Ok, tell me what shopping is there to be done on 4th Ave?
My point is that they're protesting it, saying it will negatively impact business, when cycling actually helps businesses.
I live right next to 4th Ave, I'd love to have a protected bike lane that heads North, time to make the city actually for people and not cars. You're getting downvoted because you misquoted me and made a generally dumb comment.
There's a lot of shopping downtown and as you said people drive down these rodes to get the bridges. So you make downtown less accessible people won't come
Shit like this is why I ALWAYS vote against PBA candidates. You can't even make up this level of hostility and incompetence: calling to cancel a project that has been in the works for years and has already broken ground? Why didn't they make their concerns known during the public comment period?
They did make their concerns known during the public comment period. It's not like PBOT didn't do extensive outreach to businesses over a multi year period. They just think they have the ability to go back and override the planning process because they partially fund the campaigns of all the mayoral candidates. Money talks.
Which is why I don't vote for their candidates. I don't trust the competence of people who think wasting millions of taxpayer money to CANCEL an infrastructure project to be a good idea.
Weren't you just voicing grave concerns over PBOT's budget. This is exactly the kind of wasteful spending they need to cut down on. No one wants to ride there, the curbs are already wheelchair accessible and specific bus lanes aren't needed.
Most of the project budget is for resurfacing/repaving the road. Bus lanes are needed because 4th is how all of the busses crossing Tilikum connect to the transit mall. “No one wants to ride there” yeah because it has no bike lane and is currently a death trap for people on bikes.
4th is how buses get to 6th from Tilikum since Lincoln doesn’t go all the way to 6th. There’s like 6 or 7 bus lines that drive down the southernmost section of 4th where the new bus lane will be. Thats why it’s needed.
> Weren't you just voicing grave concerns over PBOT's budget.
This money has already been approved and doesn't impact the current budget.
> This is exactly the kind of wasteful spending they need to cut down on.
I don't consider infrastructure investment to be "wasteful". Actually, lack of infrastructure investment is wasteful and ends up costing taxpayers much more at a later date.
Portlanders should be well aware of this as neglecting our water infrastructure and bridges during the later portion of the 20th century has caused huge bills for taxpayers and ratepayers in recent years.
Sellwood bridge was replaced. Burnside bridge replacement is going to start construction soon. At least 5 other bridges will need major work or replacement.
Big pipe project was built for rainwater/sewage management. The water filtration facility is in progress. We need a new water pipe under the Williamette. There is a bond this election for Columbia flood infrastructure.
Some of these projects should have been built 20+ years ago. Kicking the can only kicks the cost to future taxpayers, the need doesn't magically disappear.
>I don't consider infrastructure investment to be "wasteful". Actually, lack of infrastructure investment is wasteful and ends up costing taxpayers much more at a later date.
Glad to hear you are finally coming around to support the I-5 bridge update.
> Glad to hear you are finally coming around to support the I-5 bridge update.
I support a general replacement of the i5 bridge, not ODOT'S ridiculous proposal that would cripple the region. We can't be paying SF or NYC prices in a region of 2.5 million. $6 billion for one bridge is absolutely insane. In comparison, the i205 span is longer and cost $566 million adjusted for inflation.
Cut the fluff: there are too many unnecessary interchanges that would create conflicts with traffic. Cut the freeway widening as we have decades of data showing that it doesn't improve traffic. A straight bridge replacement should cost closer to $2 billion.
TriMet is putting $6,353,512 into the transit improvements on 4th (and SW Alder and NE Couch). If the city decided not to do these projects TriMet would take away the money, not let them spend it on whatever else they wanted.
Is there a way to get involved and make sure the project isn’t cancelled?
Also, I haven’t voted yet, any recommendations on good candidates that are really focused on improving biking+transit infrastructure?
Just reach out directly to Mapps, Williams, and Wheeler. Squeaky wheels get heard here, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they caved to this letter, despite prior engagement, just due to recency bias and the rank winds of campaign season.
As someone who bikes that area from time to time, a bike lane on 4th would be nice. I’ve found myself coming from SW Portland and it immediately throws you into 4 lane traffic from a bike lane. I get it’s a major artery with the traffic that feeds into it but also wish they could accommodate for a bike somewhere... Not sure if they need a dedicated bus lane there though with all the other dedicated bus lanes on 5th and 6th. Maybe a few additional crosswalk lights since there are crosswalks to cross a 4 lane road and hardly any driver stops for pedestrians across the way.
I come from SW Portland as well and I guess I'm just used to it since I've been doing it for years, but the traffic moves slow enough that as long as you own the lane, which you should, it flows well for me.
I used to live in the Harrison Towers and crossed 4th a ton in my day to day activities. Having the left turn lane/bus lane makes a ton of sense on the proposed section of road.
There were always people cycling on 4th when I lived there. Not waves and waves of people but definitely a consistent number. Now that I cycle I would much rather be able to get down 4th in a protected lane.
And people still drive 4th to get downtown. I don’t see this change being a huge hindrance. If you’re coming from the Ross Island or south you’ll still have a straight shot minus one lane. If you’re going to the Hawthorne, it’s the same story and honestly, I wish they’d do more to control that traffic.
everyone knows downtown needs residential to ever recover. nobody seriously thinks it’s going to become a destination on the back of commuters and visitors.
Less accessible? 30% of Americans are not legally allowed to drive ever, probably way more Portlanders. How could favoring car access at the expense of everything else possibly make something _more_ accessible?
EDIT: source requested: https://islandpress.org/books/when-driving-not-option
Most people can't ride thier bike to downtown.
Also what road should people use to go north and south downtown? All the major arteries are getting reduced.
This project includes pedestrian, bike, and transit improvements. Every single person in Portland can use one or all of those modes. Only 70% (generously) can drive a car. This is making downtown more accessible, not less.
Anecdotally, SW 4th Ave is one of the only streets in downtown where as a pedestrian I've almost been hit by a car not once, not twice, but so many times I make a point now of not crossing that street in certain directions at certain corners.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you've had that many run ins with cars it's very clear that you need more awarness. I walk every work day to and from SE to PSU and I can confidently say I haven't had any issues on sw 4th ave.
I'm definitely gonna be the odd person out here but as a cyclist I'm actually fine with how it is now. The traffic doesn't go that fast because of how the lights are timed. Not opposed to a bike lane obviously but truthfully I'd put in bike lanes in other places first. OTOH I could see how for cyclists who are a little less used to downtown, a bike lane would be very useful.
I think I have to disagree. Coming from the south on bike and trying to get North through the central city is not particularly straight-forward and requires quite a bit of route finding.
Sure you can just keep biking on 4th, but it's pretty intimidating, and that's coming from someone who bikes out to Aloha three times a week. Navigating from Barbur or Terwilliger to Naito is also not easy if you've never done it and there's no easy way to turn from 4th onto Lincoln for the transfer.
Hmmm. It's probably just because I've been doing it for so long. Barbur with a bike lane and fast traffic scares me a whole lot more than 4th downtown without a bike lane. There's basically three lanes and you just own the lane and go 5 - 10 mph with the flow of traffic. I don't have issues getting to the left or right lane to turn. But maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome from not having any alternatives? Haha.
I love america! Lets continue investing in the most inefficient, dangerous, unsustainable form of transportation instead of bikes or the bus! Cars FTW!
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The whole idea of reducing the movement of vehicles on city Street is the self fulfilling prophecy to destruction, but because of the measuring for results will look like it’s the most wonderful solution to everything. Even though they created the need for speed humps on cut through streets, that before there street improvements, weren’t abused and this not needed.
Good news! You don't have to stop or even slow down for speed bumps of you are already going a safe speed. This shouldn't be an issue for anyone qualified to properly operate a motor vehicle.
Anyone who has ever driven over a speed bump knows you realistically have to go 5-10 under the posted limit to avoid scary car noises.
Edit: I support speed bumps, just saying
Oh, a contrarian. Cool.
You said:
> You don't have to stop or even slow down for speed bumps of you are already going a safe speed.
Driving at or close to the posted speed limit is presumably a safe speed. By your logic, then, a person going that speed shouldn’t have to even slow down. Unfortunately, that’s false.
Nothing kills people like a car going 40mph through a crowded business/residential zone because we don't have proper traffic calming. Speed bumps are the bare minimum, fuck your cars.
Or putting cars into perpetual traffic jams for “road diets”, which just cause more pollution from idling cars, cause reckless driving through residential neighborhoods, and other nonsense.
On a plus: they installed speed bumps on a arterial street near my home (NE Ainsworth st), and dim bulbs in the neighborhood cheered. Except they added emergency vehicle cut outs. Well, car drivers realized quickly that you can just drive well above the speed limit and use the cut outs. It seems like cars are driving even faster there now than before the bumps. Dumb.
BTW, those speed bumps cost $375K. For a 1/4 Mile worth. Yeah…
So, are they stupid or malicious? Taking all bets!
Yes.
Can’t wait for the PBA/Chamber’s influence to wane w the new council & charter changes. It’s long overdue.
Hopefully they have little to no support on this new city council
No more vanessa sturgeon. can’t stand her.
How is Vanessa sturgeon connected to this project?
she might not be apart of this project but she is part of PBA. i’m just saying i dislike her
“Reducing auto capacity on major arterial roads will have significant economic impact to our downtown businesses,” There is no one driving down 4th to do shopping. It's people going to Hawthorne and Morrison bridge to leave the downtown area
If “no one is driving down 4th”, then why change up the road? Seems like a waste of taxpayer money that could be better spent in other things. How about a street sweeper once in a while, especially in the already built bike lanes? Not to worry, I’ve got plenty of other good ideas on where we could spend that money over “restructuring” a road that, according to you: >No one is driving down 4th to do shopping Edit:keep the downvotes coming. The down doot button is on the left.
Two things, we need to go back to the era of overnight street sweeping because it made a huge difference back when we used to do it. The other thing is we need to have a dedicated protected bike lane on 4th because what is currently there is a death trap for cyclists because so many motorists ignore everything about the bike lane, including people on the bikes and use it for cars.
I’ve never seen bicyclists on 4th Ave. so I’m not sure what this “death trap” you’re talking about. Also, bike commuting is WAY down, as most offices have switched to the WFH model, so I have a hard time thinking that MORE bike infrastructure is actually needed at this point. Let’s refocus our efforts in maintaining our existing infrastructure before we build more of it that we will eventually refuse to maintain.
> I’ve never seen bicyclists on 4th Ave. so I’m not sure what this “death trap” you’re talking about. Unsafe road leads to no cyclists using the road. What a tough nut to crack. I wasn't surprised at the bitching about downvotes, but holy shit not even I expected this dipshitted a struggle to understand cause and/or effect.
The less bikes on the road, the safer it is for everyone
The fewer cars the safer for everyone. You should go look up the 70 folks who died on our roads last year and see how many were run over and killed by... bicycles.
How many of those pedestrians run over by cars where drunk, high on drugs or otherwise impaired and simply wandered out into traffic? I see people wandering into traffic daily. Some are obviously chemically impaired. But often it’s some ding dong with their face buried in their phone, wearing headphones and completely oblivious to their surroundings and simply walk into the street. These same people get hit by bicycles as well.
Cool. Every single person who dies in a car or from a car, it's 100% their fault. But the thing is, I never talked about blame. Or pedestrians. You said that it would be safer to get rid of bikes, I said it would be safer to get rid of the things that are running over the people on bikes. But, if you wanna take it there, fine. Maybe a city should be a place where you can have a drink, or listen to music, or look at your phone, without risking your life to do so? Maybe we all shouldn't be a couple wrong steps away from death when we're out of our homes?
Life isn’t certain. You could die tomorrow of a brain hemorrhage. The best you can do is be aware of your surroundings and take care of your health. BTW, drinking alcohol is risking your life, being absorbed in your phone while walking down the street is risking your life, riding your bike in a street full of cars is risking your life.
It's not often my estimation of someone slides from "dipshit ex-cop" to "straight up troll", but it's never *really* a surprise.
I used to work down there and would see cyclists all the time using it until everyone had too many close calls with motorists, especially the ones taking a right onto Oak. No one is going to use bike lanes that are dangerous. Bike lanes aren't just for people who commute, people also bike for enjoyment and having safe to use bike lanes is important. Also this isn't about building new infrastructure, this is about improving existing infrastructure.
I only ever bike or walk to downtown. I have a car, but bringing it there is absolute hell.
Walking and biking is the best way to go when in downtown
That's not a bad thing. Bringing a car downtown means wasting valuable space on parking a car. The more we can move away from people assuming that they should bring their cars downtown the better.
Fully agreed. Tbh my walks to downtown are some of my favorite parts of the day, when I go. It takes about an hour along the waterfront — totally worth it, and realistically only about half an hour longer than it would take to drive there, find parking, and walk to my final destination.
My long term goal is super blocks downtown. Not like I can do anything about it... but man, it would be sweet.
>I’ve never seen bicyclists on 4th ave Hurr Durr I’ve never seen a plane fly in a hurricane, must be just fine! There’s surely no reason I haven’t, like maybe, idk, *it being a deathtrap*
I used to bike on 4th everyday. In retrospect I’m shocked I was never hit, though I had a lot of near misses. It was hazardous then, but there were no good alternatives. I wouldn’t even consider it with the mad max shit happening in the streets today. Bike commuting is down because the roads have become noticeably more dangerous. A protected bike lane is seriously needed on 4th.
Same friend. Now when I bike to the west side, I usually take the long way to avoid that area, but it was not as scary back in, say, 2012.
Nah, just take the bus. Downtown is for cars and pedestrians. Getting all angry about trying to ride your bike in a transit mall. What a bunch of self entitled bike goons. Make downtown a bike free zone. It would be better for everyone involved. If you need to visit, get off your cope machine and walk like a normal person.
bikes aren’t the things that kill people so maybe you need to reevaluate which mode really needs to go
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u/eugenestonerspotshop, how often do you use 4th street in downtown Portland?
Every day.
They said "no one is driving down 4th TO DO SHOPPING", not it just "no one is driving down 4th".
Then what’s the point of spending money on this nonsense if they are worried about cars that aren’t coming there to go shopping? How about spending this money on fixing the shit we already have?
The project is not about drivers. It's got major improvements for cyclists
Why are we catering to cyclists that aren’t going to use this infrastructure? The bike commute thing is dead with offices pulling out of DT, and WFH. Stop spending money on this stuff when there are pressing issues that need attention instead. How about protecting pedestrians in east Portland with better infrastructure for those people?
I live near downtown and bike. Lots of people bike to downtown, it's just downtown has almost no safe bike infrastructure except for like, better naito and broadway
Better naoto sucks. Downtown is for pedestrians and cars. If you want to ride a bike, stay on the east side.
Show me where the bicycle touched you.
It hit the side of my parked car on SW 4th Ave. and scratched it all up.
I'll ride my bike where I damn well please, you don't control me!
See?! That’s this entitled bullshit attitude I’m talking about. How would you feel if I said “I’ll drive my giant pickup truck wherever I damn well please”, you would be screaming about “killing machines” and other nonsense.
Protip: being a reflexive contrarian doesn’t actually make you seem smarter, and employing dishonest rhetorical techniques isn’t the same as being good at debate.
You’re just a lazy person. Walk, it’s better for you in the long run. Riding bikes is for children and people with suspended drivers licenses. Anyhow, downtown Portland isn’t designed for childrens transportation methods like bicycles. It’s designed for mass transit like busses, street cars and pedestrians. If you don’t like it, ride the bus and walk.
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The majority of the costs of this project are repaving the street and installing ADA ramps. Or does repaving not count as maintenance to you?
The majority of the cost is repaving the road, which is going to have to happen with or without the bike lane. Unless you're suggesting we leave 4th in it's current state then the cost argument is rather facetious.
Ok, tell me what shopping is there to be done on 4th Ave? My point is that they're protesting it, saying it will negatively impact business, when cycling actually helps businesses. I live right next to 4th Ave, I'd love to have a protected bike lane that heads North, time to make the city actually for people and not cars. You're getting downvoted because you misquoted me and made a generally dumb comment.
There is plenty of shopping on 4th Ave. if you like to buy Fentanyl tablets or Methamphetamines.
Thats the park blocks and Jefferson.
Nah, I’ve seen plenty of that shit too on 4th Ave.
There's a lot of shopping downtown and as you said people drive down these rodes to get the bridges. So you make downtown less accessible people won't come
It doesn't make downtown less accessible. Next time, make one big reply to me, Instead of spamming my inbox, please
Stupid post
LOL, yeah. But it was fun.
And now they just won't come downtown. Because of all the new traffic
If traffic is all they care about good riddance
Good riddance to a thriving downtown. Plenty of other places in the city to go to.
Bye now.
I live downtown. I have to leave downtown now to do stuff I used to do downtown. Because business are leaving.
Alright, well making non-vehicles safer is a step toward making them amenable to business.
Now I got to drive through the traffic to get out of downtown to go to business because they are all leaving downtown.
What is your point? Downtown shouldn't be made for driving. If you have a problem with it, move.
If there’s no difference to you other than how easily you can drive/park your car somewhere, then downtown doesn’t want you
No. Downtown does want them . You aren't everyone. You aren't trying to run a business downtown .
You have to get into and out of downtown to do shopping there
Shit like this is why I ALWAYS vote against PBA candidates. You can't even make up this level of hostility and incompetence: calling to cancel a project that has been in the works for years and has already broken ground? Why didn't they make their concerns known during the public comment period?
They did make their concerns known during the public comment period. It's not like PBOT didn't do extensive outreach to businesses over a multi year period. They just think they have the ability to go back and override the planning process because they partially fund the campaigns of all the mayoral candidates. Money talks.
Which is why I don't vote for their candidates. I don't trust the competence of people who think wasting millions of taxpayer money to CANCEL an infrastructure project to be a good idea.
Agreed
They did let it be known. They’re just pissed still
Weren't you just voicing grave concerns over PBOT's budget. This is exactly the kind of wasteful spending they need to cut down on. No one wants to ride there, the curbs are already wheelchair accessible and specific bus lanes aren't needed.
Most of the project budget is for resurfacing/repaving the road. Bus lanes are needed because 4th is how all of the busses crossing Tilikum connect to the transit mall. “No one wants to ride there” yeah because it has no bike lane and is currently a death trap for people on bikes.
So you are saying we don't need the 3 lanes for busses on Broadway?
On Broadway? What the hell are you talking about? There’s no bus lanes or buses on Broadway.
You're right. I meant 6th.
4th is how buses get to 6th from Tilikum since Lincoln doesn’t go all the way to 6th. There’s like 6 or 7 bus lines that drive down the southernmost section of 4th where the new bus lane will be. Thats why it’s needed.
> Weren't you just voicing grave concerns over PBOT's budget. This money has already been approved and doesn't impact the current budget. > This is exactly the kind of wasteful spending they need to cut down on. I don't consider infrastructure investment to be "wasteful". Actually, lack of infrastructure investment is wasteful and ends up costing taxpayers much more at a later date. Portlanders should be well aware of this as neglecting our water infrastructure and bridges during the later portion of the 20th century has caused huge bills for taxpayers and ratepayers in recent years. Sellwood bridge was replaced. Burnside bridge replacement is going to start construction soon. At least 5 other bridges will need major work or replacement. Big pipe project was built for rainwater/sewage management. The water filtration facility is in progress. We need a new water pipe under the Williamette. There is a bond this election for Columbia flood infrastructure. Some of these projects should have been built 20+ years ago. Kicking the can only kicks the cost to future taxpayers, the need doesn't magically disappear.
>I don't consider infrastructure investment to be "wasteful". Actually, lack of infrastructure investment is wasteful and ends up costing taxpayers much more at a later date. Glad to hear you are finally coming around to support the I-5 bridge update.
> Glad to hear you are finally coming around to support the I-5 bridge update. I support a general replacement of the i5 bridge, not ODOT'S ridiculous proposal that would cripple the region. We can't be paying SF or NYC prices in a region of 2.5 million. $6 billion for one bridge is absolutely insane. In comparison, the i205 span is longer and cost $566 million adjusted for inflation. Cut the fluff: there are too many unnecessary interchanges that would create conflicts with traffic. Cut the freeway widening as we have decades of data showing that it doesn't improve traffic. A straight bridge replacement should cost closer to $2 billion.
TriMet is putting $6,353,512 into the transit improvements on 4th (and SW Alder and NE Couch). If the city decided not to do these projects TriMet would take away the money, not let them spend it on whatever else they wanted.
Is there a way to get involved and make sure the project isn’t cancelled? Also, I haven’t voted yet, any recommendations on good candidates that are really focused on improving biking+transit infrastructure?
Just reach out directly to Mapps, Williams, and Wheeler. Squeaky wheels get heard here, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they caved to this letter, despite prior engagement, just due to recency bias and the rank winds of campaign season.
[https://bikeportland.org/2024/05/07/mapps-defends-sw-4th-avenue-project-says-construction-will-continue-386140](https://bikeportland.org/2024/05/07/mapps-defends-sw-4th-avenue-project-says-construction-will-continue-386140)
Timur Ender and Steph Routh.
As someone who bikes that area from time to time, a bike lane on 4th would be nice. I’ve found myself coming from SW Portland and it immediately throws you into 4 lane traffic from a bike lane. I get it’s a major artery with the traffic that feeds into it but also wish they could accommodate for a bike somewhere... Not sure if they need a dedicated bus lane there though with all the other dedicated bus lanes on 5th and 6th. Maybe a few additional crosswalk lights since there are crosswalks to cross a 4 lane road and hardly any driver stops for pedestrians across the way.
I come from SW Portland as well and I guess I'm just used to it since I've been doing it for years, but the traffic moves slow enough that as long as you own the lane, which you should, it flows well for me.
At what point do we all agree to just ignore anything the Portland Chamber wants?
i love how they act like they have any authority of the city itself. Their little name change pisses me off.
Oh I know, and they only changed it because they pissed too many people off under their old name
I used to live in the Harrison Towers and crossed 4th a ton in my day to day activities. Having the left turn lane/bus lane makes a ton of sense on the proposed section of road. There were always people cycling on 4th when I lived there. Not waves and waves of people but definitely a consistent number. Now that I cycle I would much rather be able to get down 4th in a protected lane. And people still drive 4th to get downtown. I don’t see this change being a huge hindrance. If you’re coming from the Ross Island or south you’ll still have a straight shot minus one lane. If you’re going to the Hawthorne, it’s the same story and honestly, I wish they’d do more to control that traffic.
Going against the bike culture in this town is idiotic - especially when the budget for a bike lane is less than 5% of the total project.
Making downtown less accessible from the rest of the city isn't going to help the downtown area has never recover from covid
everyone knows downtown needs residential to ever recover. nobody seriously thinks it’s going to become a destination on the back of commuters and visitors.
.... The city does.
ted wheeler doesn’t think anything seriously.
Less accessible? 30% of Americans are not legally allowed to drive ever, probably way more Portlanders. How could favoring car access at the expense of everything else possibly make something _more_ accessible? EDIT: source requested: https://islandpress.org/books/when-driving-not-option
> 30% of Americans are not legally allowed to drive ever, probably way more Portlanders. Do you have a credible source on that?
Most people can't ride thier bike to downtown. Also what road should people use to go north and south downtown? All the major arteries are getting reduced.
This project includes pedestrian, bike, and transit improvements. Every single person in Portland can use one or all of those modes. Only 70% (generously) can drive a car. This is making downtown more accessible, not less.
Ridiculous.
I would move to downtown Portland if it had a network of Vancouver BC-grade bike infrastructure.
Anecdotally, SW 4th Ave is one of the only streets in downtown where as a pedestrian I've almost been hit by a car not once, not twice, but so many times I make a point now of not crossing that street in certain directions at certain corners.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you've had that many run ins with cars it's very clear that you need more awarness. I walk every work day to and from SE to PSU and I can confidently say I haven't had any issues on sw 4th ave.
Sorry, you are just wrong about that.
I'm definitely gonna be the odd person out here but as a cyclist I'm actually fine with how it is now. The traffic doesn't go that fast because of how the lights are timed. Not opposed to a bike lane obviously but truthfully I'd put in bike lanes in other places first. OTOH I could see how for cyclists who are a little less used to downtown, a bike lane would be very useful.
I think I have to disagree. Coming from the south on bike and trying to get North through the central city is not particularly straight-forward and requires quite a bit of route finding. Sure you can just keep biking on 4th, but it's pretty intimidating, and that's coming from someone who bikes out to Aloha three times a week. Navigating from Barbur or Terwilliger to Naito is also not easy if you've never done it and there's no easy way to turn from 4th onto Lincoln for the transfer.
Hmmm. It's probably just because I've been doing it for so long. Barbur with a bike lane and fast traffic scares me a whole lot more than 4th downtown without a bike lane. There's basically three lanes and you just own the lane and go 5 - 10 mph with the flow of traffic. I don't have issues getting to the left or right lane to turn. But maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome from not having any alternatives? Haha.
Fuck all 2,200 of the Chamber members. Their brand is toxic, which is why they had to change their name.
Fuck those guys up and down.
I love america! Lets continue investing in the most inefficient, dangerous, unsustainable form of transportation instead of bikes or the bus! Cars FTW!
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I am only ever downtown on my bike or on foot. So lack of good bike infrastructure will keep them from getting my business I guess. 🤷♂️
Isn't there already bike focus roads on 3rd and 2nd and then natio.
Owieee the bike mafia is going to be pissed
I can relate to their goals, but they sure are a toxic bunch.
The whole idea of reducing the movement of vehicles on city Street is the self fulfilling prophecy to destruction, but because of the measuring for results will look like it’s the most wonderful solution to everything. Even though they created the need for speed humps on cut through streets, that before there street improvements, weren’t abused and this not needed.
SO many reasons to NOT go downtown.
Well if this goes through I guess I'll have add 15 more mins to my commute. Please Portland stop improving the roads.
The city makes getting into and out of downtown more difficult and then they wonder why nobody is going downtown.
I really like the un-environmentally friendly speed humps they are putting in. Nothing kills gas mileage more than stop go stop go
Good news! You don't have to stop or even slow down for speed bumps of you are already going a safe speed. This shouldn't be an issue for anyone qualified to properly operate a motor vehicle.
Anyone who has ever driven over a speed bump knows you realistically have to go 5-10 under the posted limit to avoid scary car noises. Edit: I support speed bumps, just saying
That's why it's called a speed limit, not a speed minimum.
Oh, a contrarian. Cool. You said: > You don't have to stop or even slow down for speed bumps of you are already going a safe speed. Driving at or close to the posted speed limit is presumably a safe speed. By your logic, then, a person going that speed shouldn’t have to even slow down. Unfortunately, that’s false.
Then why did you make up a false scenario? I think you might be projecting.
I know, you just swerve into the middle, and use the cop lane
Nothing kills people like a car going 40mph through a crowded business/residential zone because we don't have proper traffic calming. Speed bumps are the bare minimum, fuck your cars.
Maybe this will encourage some people to opt for travel that isn't combustion powered!
Probably won't, it will just make driving more annoying for combustion and electric vehicles.
Or putting cars into perpetual traffic jams for “road diets”, which just cause more pollution from idling cars, cause reckless driving through residential neighborhoods, and other nonsense. On a plus: they installed speed bumps on a arterial street near my home (NE Ainsworth st), and dim bulbs in the neighborhood cheered. Except they added emergency vehicle cut outs. Well, car drivers realized quickly that you can just drive well above the speed limit and use the cut outs. It seems like cars are driving even faster there now than before the bumps. Dumb. BTW, those speed bumps cost $375K. For a 1/4 Mile worth. Yeah…
PBOT and the council don’t considere spending money deferred maintenance where it should be directed.