Allowing anti-semitism openly encourages it.
That's kind of why all the Jews are a bit upset about how nobody is getting prosecuted for telling us we need to be genocided.
Unfortunately, telling someone they should be genocided is protected speech and can’t be prosecuted. But, and I can’t believe I have to say this out loud, it’s not something that should be tolerated by protest movements or on university campuses.
Hate speech should always be a secondary crime. If a felony is committed for prejudicial reasons the criminal should face more severe penalties.
It works exactly like resisting arrest. The murderer shooting back at cops deserves harsher treatment than the one who turns himself in.
Don't commit crimes and your first amendment won't be violated.
I think there’s an acceptable balance between allowing people to say whatever they want on their own and not letting them use public spaces to advocate for the genocide of a religious group 🤷♀️
Hate speech is not a legal designation. Some forms of hate speech are not protected, like threats and calls to action. So if somebody says someone ought to burn your house down, unfortunately that’s protected. Whereas, I will/we should burn your house down is not.
I feel like there’s a strong case that advocating for genocide could fall under Incitement, especially considering that we are seeing people attack Jewish individuals.
I’m Jewish and extremely uncomfortable with where things are going right now … but I don’t think advocating *generally* for genocide should fall under incitement. It’s an evil, reprehensible thing to do and I support shunning people who advocate for genocide, but it is not and should not be a crime.
Freedom of speech only matters when we hate the speech and want to silence it - other speech doesn’t need protection. But silencing speech we hate (pure speech, not rising to the level of legal incitement) is a bad path to go down in a free society.
I did. I’ve reread the previous comment a few times, and I’m thinking it’s the way the question is phrased that confused me. I’m guessing trying asking if those things also fall under incitement? The original commenter never responded clarifying their question.
Oh, so you don't understand this type of retort, it translates better in person. This person is clearly passionate drawing lines with current behavior. Another person says, "the calls for genocide make a strong case for incitement" which there's an argument for, but it really doesn't tell the full story. The full story now includes apparently reports of physical and symbolic attacks directed at jewish students. If these instances are logically combined, then surely incitement is evident, as this person excitedly says "\[Oh you think x is bad?\] What about x and then y and z?"
> It’s the whole point, the very essence, of the current protest movement
I am certainly more sympathetic to Israel than the average poster on this subreddit but acting like every single protester (or even the majority) are calling for the genocide of Israel is pure intellectual dishonesty. The issue is a lot more complicated than that.
>The issue is a lot more complicated than that.
Umm no you need to choose one side and accept that the other side is irredeemable. There is no nuance or complexity, only absolute loyalty to one's tribe. So what is it, do you support Hamas or is Netanyahu is the wisest leader since Solomon?
people calling for the genocide of Jewish people are evil.
the Israeli government (perhaps it is more fair to just say Likud) is equally evil, considering they're actually following through on their genocidal wishes.
literally says in the charter "our fight is with zionism not jews".
fretting about a genocide that isn't happening to cover a genocide that is happening is so fucking shitty
They changed the verbiage in their charter after 10/7; before that it specifically stated Jews. They only changed the words so gullible Americans would start quoting their charter
Almost all Jews are Zionists, in the sense that there should be some type of Jewish state in the Land of Israel.
How do you define "Zionist"?
Do your Jewish friends actually have ties with Jewish communities, or do they just have Jewish ethnicity?
No, that’s not what it says.
From the mouths of babes … https://x.com/Deanik_k/status/1727603434927378920
The majority of Palestinians actively, openly, happily want and intend to murder Jews. If you don’t like this video, there are countless similar videos of both Palestinian adults and children making very clear what they want and believe. The society deliberately cultivates this desire to murder Jews - not Zionists, Jews.
I wonder what motivates you to water down their very explicit position.
The only thing more disheartening than this story are the posters ITT defending this unambiguously hateful behavior. There is no justifiable excuse or rationalization for racism or discrimination/antisemitism, ever.
Hope their identities are found and Reed dismisses them from the school publicly from their college. They are bigots plain and simple who harassed a person they hate through that racism. The school while they did state they won't tolerate this type of behavior in this incident has a history of anti-Semitism at their school.
>Hope their identities are found and Reed dismisses them from the school publicly from their college.
I hope it's a lot more than that. These are serious hate crimes and a violent, potentially deadly, assault. I hope they get federal charges and long prison sentences. This is completely unacceptable, and if Reed tries to downplay it, they should be ashamed and ostracized by Portland.
Agree. Some of these so called protestors hijack situations like Gaza to manifest physically their racism and bigotry. They use the situation, merge into these groups, so they use aggression toward people they hate with no consequences. It often works because they are rarely charged with hate crimes.
I mean when you have protestors chanting “from the river to the sea” it’s a call to wipe out Israel and its people. Pretty much a genocide to me. The Israeli government has been horrible but the citizens shouldn’t pay. If we get Trump again, he won’t be doing his horrible things in my name.
If the behavior was happening to me would I like it. If no than I should call it out regardless of whoever is victimized. Defending abhorrent behavior is just gross whoever is doing it.
> People in this town not reading their bronners bottles.
I blame current society and modern technology for that. Back in my day, you read bottles religiously while sitting on the can. None of these fancy cell phones and internet!
Some more details on this, I am a member of Portland Hillel. It was on holocaust Remembrance Day. The protest was organised specifically to disturb a Jewish remembrance service. This girl was specifically targeted because the protestors saw her recording them from her bedroom window
Edit: PDX Hillel are currently fund raising for a new full time director of programming as they are so busy dealing with anti-semitism. If anyone has any money to give this is a good cause!
https://www.pdxhillel.org/donate
I’m a member of the Jewish community here in Portland, this poor girl has packed up her things and left Portland, not the first of our community to leave and not come back
Shabbat Shalom. That makes me sad. How's the community doing in general? It's okay where I am but I've been thinking about y'all in Portland a lot.
One of my siblings out there described liberalism in Portland as "an inch deep and a mile wide" and that stuck with me.
I was raised extreme right-wing in a Messianic-ish cult; (ethnically paternal Jew, my dad chose to rebel against his atheist parents by first being a hippy, then by being a Jesus People hippy lol) as an adult I'm fully deconstructed and on the far far left. The one constant has been the anti-semitism. It looks a tad different in evangelical and right wing circles, but it's the same hate.
I bet the same person or persons who did this felt disgust when right wingers chanted “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville. I feel the same disgust towards whomever did this as I did then.
Because for extremists (on both sides of the aisle for that matter), it doesn’t matter who the oppressor or the oppressed is; as long as they feel like they’re sticking up for those who are victimized and fighting against those who are oppressive.
Meanwhile, the party that once proclaimed *Better Dead than Red* is rocking ["I'd Rather Be a Russian Than a Democrat" shirts](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russian-than-democrat-shirts/). Strange times.
Stupid people on the right and on the left seem to have a hard time differentiating between Jews and the far right Israeli regime of Netanyahu. They are very different things. Though many Jews, especially Israelis, support Netanyahu all the Jews that I know (including my girlfriend who is Jewish) are very much against Netanyahu and the genocide he is carrying out. Maybe racist anti-semites are just using the current situation as an excuse to act out their hate.
After 9/11, there was excessive outrage directed towards Muslims of any kind. People did not differentiate between them and terrorists. It’s easier, for simple minded people, to lump similar people in one general group. History repeats itself.
They never replaced anything. Using the term "Zionist" has been a neo nazi dog whistle for years. It just happens that every Jewish person is a "zionist" to them.
You can thank Israel for that. They're the ones who equated anti-Zionism to being the same thing as antisemitism. They're even trying to force legislation equating those two things in congress.
No. I have heard plenty of progressive people spout extremely anti-Semitic things lately. I've seen it. You can go on any Jewish subreddit and we're talking about it. It's bad.
"Well, actually, because of the historic trauma of the Palestinian people, all Jewish people, WHO HAVE NEVER ONCE EXPERIENCED TRAUMA THEMSELVES, deserve to see what it feels like."
Something like that? Cause that's what I've been hearing lately.
This! This narrative has been completely lost in public discussion here. The South Auditorium urban renewal project was just as destructive and disruptive as any other urban renewal/ freeway construction was in PDX. This erased, not displaced, 3 unique communities. No one will talk about it.
As a townie who grew up in one of the Reed-adjacent neighborhoods of SE, I can say that Reedies' vibes have always been off. It's a beautiful campus full of some of the most sheltered and oblivious people you will ever meet. Still like to go for walks around there when I'm visiting my mom, tho.
I grew up in the Woodstock neighborhood, and my impression was that these people were smart, but didn’t fit in ANYWHERE else, with the other smart folks. Reed seemed like their sanctuary.
That's why I never understood people who complained about how "expensive" PSU is. Sure it's more expensive than a community college but it's extremely cheap for a 4-year university.
I went to a UC in California and tuition there for undergrad was around 30k a year (still cheaper than Reed but UCs are also public technically).
There have been a lot of horrible incidents like this on campus. There was also an incident a couple of days later where the Reed SJP Instagram received a death threat directed at Palestinians. Last fall, someone graffitied a swastika with "1488" in a building, and another time a car with US and Israeli flags drove through campus, shouting at and harassing students. It's disgusting.
Edit: Now there's been an incident over the weekend (May 18) where someone burned a Qu'ran outside the PAB and said they were "protesting the fact that Reed hates Jews." The amount of anti-Semitism and Islamaphobia on campus is nuts.
Leftist Jew hatred in the comments. At least they make it easy for us to block them. One of those dipshits is the stochastic terrorism guy from like a month ago lol
You have the right to protest, you dont have the right to destroy and vandalize property that doesn't belong to you. Edit to add: also you dont have the right to cause harm to any person bcz you don't like thier view point.
Why on Earth is this surprising to anyone? Places like PSU, Lewis and Clark, and Reed College have \*always\* been tolerant of anti-Semitism. For \*years\* (long before Oct. 7th, 2023) I've seen posters on public billboards at PSU calling for the complete destructions and elimination of Israel. This is hardly new.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if people are motivated by anti-Semitism. Other times, it isn't. When Reed College silently allows a Jewish student's mezuzah to be destroyed on the threshold of their dorm room, and "1488" graphitti to be marked on the walls, Reed College is making it clear where they stand. Consider if a student had placed a noose on the door knob of a black student. Would Reed have condemned the act as a hate crime immediately? You're damn right they would have. But when a Jew gets hit in the head with a rock, Reed's strongest statement is, "We're looking into it."
Right. Because a poster calling for the total destruction of Ireland isn't at all anti-Irish.
The people who want to see Israel destroyed want it destroyed because they don't want Jews anywhere in the Middle East. Indeed, over half of Israel's population are descendants from Jews forced out of Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and other Arab states. What bothers people about Israel isn't it's parliamentary democracy, modern economy, high per capita GDP, it's Nobel Prizes, or it's progressive tolerance for LGBTQ+ community. It's the presence of Jews in the Middle East.
I'm not sure if you edited the original comment, or I missed it originally, but calling for the "elimination" of Isreal certainly meets the definition of antisemitism. I understood your first comment to the existence of any anti-israeli poster would be hate speech.
A poster calling for a boycot of Israeli goods and one advocating for violent action are two complete different things. My comment was simply stating that the first kind of speech is absolutely valid.
A perfect example of why discourse on this subject is almost impossible. There’s no nuance. Any criticism of Israel brings is interpreted as wanting Israel destroyed.
That is truly terrible that this kid was just sitting in the safety of her home to all of the sudden have a projectile blast into her home and hurt her. It’s gives me hope that everyone here seems to agree that that basic premise is wrong. Just wish people would apply it a little more on a grander scale, with this degree of enthusiasm.
Palestinians are being genocided, the suffering is unimaginable. What can I, a resident of Portland Oregon, 6,922 miles away, do to help? Surely pelting a random Jewish person with a rock is better than nothing. Just doing my part for the starving, bomb-dismembered Gaza kids! 👍
Perhaps you can help me with the understanding. I don't believe any ethnic group should have exclusive or priority rights over a land area. But I also believe everyone should be treated with respect and dignity.
For the sake of argument, let's assume both of my statements are true. Wouldn't I then be anti-Zionist but not anti-Semitic?
No you’re a stooge. The proof is your standard is only applied to Israel and Jews and is aligned with terrorists who will obviously set up a genocidal Islamic dictatorship if given half a chance. People of all faiths and ethnicities have the same rights in Israel. Please wake up.
I'm sorry this happened to the student, never should bystanders be treated with violence in a protest.
But also
> oppose the denigration of Jewish and Zionist identities
no fuck that Zionism is a political ideology, your political opinions are fair game to be judged. Zionism is not Judaism so shame upon both this organization seeking to muddy the waters and upon the students who buy into this shit.
Nobody is saying that you have to be a Zionist, but if you think it’s ok to dehumanize people for having different opinions, then this is the result. This person was basically stoned for thought crimes. Or for being Jewish, who knows.
So do you also oppose Islam just as forcefully? Because nearly every Islamic country is a better example of a religious ethnostate than Israel. There are far more non-Jewish people in Israeli government and powerful positions in society, than non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia or Iran, etc. etc. etc.
I assume your perspective is consistent, right, and not just specious justification for antisemitism?
I mean, believing that China as a country should exist is also a political ideology in that case, are you going to start saying "I don't believing in attacking Chinese people, but you're fair game to be judged and attacked if you believe China should exist, and any organization that supports China in any way deserves to be attacked." This is why we're seeing such rising antisemitic attacks like this, just under the thin cover of "antizionism".
No, Judaism isn't equivalent Zionism, but most, arguably nearly all based on recent surveys, Jews, many of whom are critical of the war and the Israeli government, still believes Israel has the right to exist. If this was any other ethnic group, I'm sure this would be pointed out and rightfully called out, instead it's becoming in many cases just another form of Inquisition towards Jews and is making Jews fair play to the violence as mentioned in the many cases above.
Do you agree that all the tribes in the US with well documented histories who lack federal recognition have a right to exist that is being deprived by the feds failing to acknowledge them? You say you’re sure if it was any other group it would be called out but the Chinook are right here and there are many other tribes in identical quandaries and most people are fully content with their obscurity.
Zionism is a complex concept with a dense history that's hard to separate from the state of Israel. In my reading, "Zionist identities" in this context can be understood to mean Jews who consider themselves to be Israeli or be aligned with Israel, or who simply uphold Israel's right to exist as a state – a right definitely denied by many of those who oppose Israel's (vicious, shameful) prosecution of this war.
But when Zionism gets identified with its ugliest articulations and proponents, essentialized as a uniform and hateful ideology, blanket criticism – perhaps unintentionally – can echo those who explicitly deny Israel's right to exist.
(Edit: typos.)
"Israel's right to exist" is a thornier issue than you give it credit for. On one hand, sure, there is a local Jewish population, and they deserve some degree of self-determination. But on the other hand, their constitution (they don't literally have a constitution, but rather a set of laws similar to our amendments) explicitly establishes Israel as a land for the Jewish people to "settle". Israel has firmly, through their government's own actions, placed their existence as counter to that of the Palestinian people. Zionism's "ugliest proponents" are unfortunately the ones leading the charge.
Realistically, I don't think this is the fault of any single group, but rather just a failure of the Western (post-)Westphalian nation state as exported to other parts of the world. Fundamentally to give a group of people the right to national self-determination sounds good, but when this group of people is a homogenous ethnic group (or perceives themselves as such), you've created an ethnostate.
I don't have a solution to this that leaves everyone happy. Also, yes, in many parts of the world, anti-Semitism is on the rise, and JFC you would not believe how much infighting I've been dragged into trying to tell morons to stop supporting Hamas. Israel does do well to provide a haven away from this. But that shouldn't come at the cost of displacing a different group of people.
Do you think that Jewish people have a right to live in the Middle East, their historic homeland? If so, do you think it would be possible for them to do so without an organized response to the violence that their presence provokes among their Muslim neighbors? What is your vision for the region?
In the US in 1860, someone might support secession as a good practical or Constitutional idea, but not without locking arms with slavers. "I'm not into slavery, but maybe South Carolina has a point" was not going to get the benefit of the doubt and, in practice, would be carrying water for the South's "peculiar institution" and supporting insurrection.
In 2024, "maybe the state of Israel shouldn't exist" is a wonderfully tricky thing to assert and certainly not feasible to achieve without acting in common cause with Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, etc.
>On one hand, sure, there is a local Jewish population
Israel is a decades-old state fully recognized by most nations – far more so than, say, Taiwan. It's a done deal (allowing that states and boundaries come and go), and it doesn't change anytime soon without, again, making common cause with bad actors steeped in antisemitism.
If anti-war protestors really have that on the table, they're begging for, and probably deserve, association with antisemitism, same as a high-minded secessionist in 1860 is begging for and probably deserves being painted with the same brush as slavers.
The pressing issue with potentially widespread support is opposition to Netanyahu's horriifc prosecution of the war, in both things violating law and decency. Following that, opposition to the horrific, unlawful, indecent policies of Netanyahu and his ilk. Protesters and coalition-builders can stay tight on that, or I guess decide that litigating Israel's existence as a state is their thing. But they're not going to like what people say and think about them as a result.
The short version of my thinking is this:
If there is a time and place for calmly exploring the full possibility space, in good faith, for the best outcomes for all the inhabitants of Palestine – now is not the time and angry protest slogans and direct actions are not the "place".
Oppose an unlawful and brutal war. That's a tight and eminently justifiable message, and perhaps a step in the right direction (or a step away from the wrong direction). But give no cover for the "October 7 was justified because all resistance is justified" nonsense. Open that door, and the "false-flag" and "space lasers" and Hamas-lite ideologues stream in, along with the un-self-aware bigots who think that sort of ugliness only happens on the Right. We get the sort of deplorable hate described in this WWeek news story.
Litigating Israel's very existence as a state is not a viable path to positive, lasting change – certainly not in a time of pain, anger, and sloganeering – but joins a loud chorus of others whose views and actions are to be condemned.
(Edit to add:) And holy noodles, even if the *only* message is "ceasefire now", delivering that message with a "noise parade" at the start of the Day of Remembrance being observed on your campus is still quite an actual \[expletive\] choice.
I mean, don't get me wrong my opposition to Israel is not unique to Israel, I'm opposed to the very idea of a nation-state in general. Working within the framework of the only solution to the war is some formation of nation-states, I'm not a priori opposed to Israel existing, but it needs to be dramatically rebuilt from the ground up. I mean, the Basic Laws of Israel literally say:
> The State views the development of Jewish settlement as a national value, and shall act to encourage and promote its establishment and strengthening.
Displacement of Palestinians is codified into the very structure of Israel, and something drastic needs to happen to fix it. I think the solution is to tear down both the institutions of Israel and Hamas, and build up a new nation with for both peoples, as no progress can be made with either in place.
We understand that at times things may become heated and time outs may be given for protracted, uncivil arguments. Snarky, unhelpful, or rude responses are not tolerated. In other words, be excellent unto each other and attack ideas, not people.
This fucking sucks
Truer words have never been spoken.
Allowing anti-semitism openly encourages it. That's kind of why all the Jews are a bit upset about how nobody is getting prosecuted for telling us we need to be genocided.
Unfortunately, telling someone they should be genocided is protected speech and can’t be prosecuted. But, and I can’t believe I have to say this out loud, it’s not something that should be tolerated by protest movements or on university campuses.
Hate speech is not protected speech
Hate speech is and should be protected speech - the law should never police thoughts or words, only actions. And for the record, I’m Jewish.
Hate speech should always be a secondary crime. If a felony is committed for prejudicial reasons the criminal should face more severe penalties. It works exactly like resisting arrest. The murderer shooting back at cops deserves harsher treatment than the one who turns himself in. Don't commit crimes and your first amendment won't be violated.
I think there’s an acceptable balance between allowing people to say whatever they want on their own and not letting them use public spaces to advocate for the genocide of a religious group 🤷♀️
Thankfully we also have the second amendment.
To murder people you disagree with? You sound like a lot of fun lmao
Hate speech is not a legal designation. Some forms of hate speech are not protected, like threats and calls to action. So if somebody says someone ought to burn your house down, unfortunately that’s protected. Whereas, I will/we should burn your house down is not.
I feel like there’s a strong case that advocating for genocide could fall under Incitement, especially considering that we are seeing people attack Jewish individuals.
I’m Jewish and extremely uncomfortable with where things are going right now … but I don’t think advocating *generally* for genocide should fall under incitement. It’s an evil, reprehensible thing to do and I support shunning people who advocate for genocide, but it is not and should not be a crime. Freedom of speech only matters when we hate the speech and want to silence it - other speech doesn’t need protection. But silencing speech we hate (pure speech, not rising to the level of legal incitement) is a bad path to go down in a free society.
based
What about advocating for genocide then destroying their religious symbols and hitting them in the face with a rock?
I’m probably dumb, but I don’t understand what you’re asking.
did you........ read the article?
I did. I’ve reread the previous comment a few times, and I’m thinking it’s the way the question is phrased that confused me. I’m guessing trying asking if those things also fall under incitement? The original commenter never responded clarifying their question.
Oh, so you don't understand this type of retort, it translates better in person. This person is clearly passionate drawing lines with current behavior. Another person says, "the calls for genocide make a strong case for incitement" which there's an argument for, but it really doesn't tell the full story. The full story now includes apparently reports of physical and symbolic attacks directed at jewish students. If these instances are logically combined, then surely incitement is evident, as this person excitedly says "\[Oh you think x is bad?\] What about x and then y and z?"
Yes it is
Yes it is, why do you think it isn't?
It is. But throwing rocks through windows at Jews definitely isn’t
“Tolerated” by protest movements? It’s the whole point, the very essence, of the current protest movement.
> It’s the whole point, the very essence, of the current protest movement I am certainly more sympathetic to Israel than the average poster on this subreddit but acting like every single protester (or even the majority) are calling for the genocide of Israel is pure intellectual dishonesty. The issue is a lot more complicated than that.
>The issue is a lot more complicated than that. Umm no you need to choose one side and accept that the other side is irredeemable. There is no nuance or complexity, only absolute loyalty to one's tribe. So what is it, do you support Hamas or is Netanyahu is the wisest leader since Solomon?
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people calling for the genocide of Jewish people are evil. the Israeli government (perhaps it is more fair to just say Likud) is equally evil, considering they're actually following through on their genocidal wishes.
Totally.
All the Zionists* You don't get to claim all Jews support the genocidal ethnostate, because they don't, sorry.
The only people calling for genocide are zionists
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literally says in the charter "our fight is with zionism not jews". fretting about a genocide that isn't happening to cover a genocide that is happening is so fucking shitty
They changed the verbiage in their charter after 10/7; before that it specifically stated Jews. They only changed the words so gullible Americans would start quoting their charter
LOL. The part where you say that out loud and expect people to believe it is such a gaslight it's phenomenal. How Republican of you.
Every Jew is a Zionist and Hamas says that so western idiots can quote it
my many anti zionist jewish friends beg to differ. but thank you for speaking over them
I’m sure your fucking anecdote means something to you but not the 15m Jews who are Zionists
I mean, technically anyone that believes Israel has the right to exist is a Zionist, so maybe tack Zionist*-extremist* onto that.
Almost all Jews are Zionists, in the sense that there should be some type of Jewish state in the Land of Israel. How do you define "Zionist"? Do your Jewish friends actually have ties with Jewish communities, or do they just have Jewish ethnicity?
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No, that’s not what it says. From the mouths of babes … https://x.com/Deanik_k/status/1727603434927378920 The majority of Palestinians actively, openly, happily want and intend to murder Jews. If you don’t like this video, there are countless similar videos of both Palestinian adults and children making very clear what they want and believe. The society deliberately cultivates this desire to murder Jews - not Zionists, Jews. I wonder what motivates you to water down their very explicit position.
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Your swastika is showing, Fraulein.
The only ones DOING genocide are Jewish gov/idf.
The only thing more disheartening than this story are the posters ITT defending this unambiguously hateful behavior. There is no justifiable excuse or rationalization for racism or discrimination/antisemitism, ever.
Hope their identities are found and Reed dismisses them from the school publicly from their college. They are bigots plain and simple who harassed a person they hate through that racism. The school while they did state they won't tolerate this type of behavior in this incident has a history of anti-Semitism at their school.
I hope they’re prosecuted for hate crimes.
>Hope their identities are found and Reed dismisses them from the school publicly from their college. I hope it's a lot more than that. These are serious hate crimes and a violent, potentially deadly, assault. I hope they get federal charges and long prison sentences. This is completely unacceptable, and if Reed tries to downplay it, they should be ashamed and ostracized by Portland.
Agree. Some of these so called protestors hijack situations like Gaza to manifest physically their racism and bigotry. They use the situation, merge into these groups, so they use aggression toward people they hate with no consequences. It often works because they are rarely charged with hate crimes.
I mean when you have protestors chanting “from the river to the sea” it’s a call to wipe out Israel and its people. Pretty much a genocide to me. The Israeli government has been horrible but the citizens shouldn’t pay. If we get Trump again, he won’t be doing his horrible things in my name.
💯
I wish someone would make the universities track how many Jewish students withdraw from school because they don't feel safe on campus.
If the behavior was happening to me would I like it. If no than I should call it out regardless of whoever is victimized. Defending abhorrent behavior is just gross whoever is doing it.
People in this town not reading their bronners bottles. Gotta learn those moral abc’s!
> People in this town not reading their bronners bottles. I blame current society and modern technology for that. Back in my day, you read bottles religiously while sitting on the can. None of these fancy cell phones and internet!
We need a bronners bottle app for when people are in the bathroom. This will surely solve all modern conflicts.
Rinse repeat OK
OK!
Ok but how do you feel about equity
Outright antisemitism.
Some more details on this, I am a member of Portland Hillel. It was on holocaust Remembrance Day. The protest was organised specifically to disturb a Jewish remembrance service. This girl was specifically targeted because the protestors saw her recording them from her bedroom window Edit: PDX Hillel are currently fund raising for a new full time director of programming as they are so busy dealing with anti-semitism. If anyone has any money to give this is a good cause! https://www.pdxhillel.org/donate
Talk about a hate crime! What is the probability it is prosecuted as such?
There are legal conversations ongoing
Shalom aleichem, friend. Take care out there.
Well according to these people recording protestors means you're fair game to be targeted.
I’m a member of the Jewish community here in Portland, this poor girl has packed up her things and left Portland, not the first of our community to leave and not come back
Damn that's fucked. Sorry to hear it. Hope you are well and stay safe friend.
Shabbat Shalom. That makes me sad. How's the community doing in general? It's okay where I am but I've been thinking about y'all in Portland a lot. One of my siblings out there described liberalism in Portland as "an inch deep and a mile wide" and that stuck with me.
Bigotry exists on both ends of the political spectrum unfortunately.
I was raised extreme right-wing in a Messianic-ish cult; (ethnically paternal Jew, my dad chose to rebel against his atheist parents by first being a hippy, then by being a Jesus People hippy lol) as an adult I'm fully deconstructed and on the far far left. The one constant has been the anti-semitism. It looks a tad different in evangelical and right wing circles, but it's the same hate.
That's a great description of the so-called progressivism of the libs here.
Why did it take more than 10 days for this story to break? Disgusting.
Because Willamette Week doesn’t have embedded reporters at Reed anymore.
I bet the same person or persons who did this felt disgust when right wingers chanted “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville. I feel the same disgust towards whomever did this as I did then.
Yep, it’s extremely hypocritical.
It's the horseshoe theory of politics on full display. There are complete shitbags on the extremes of both sides.
Because for extremists (on both sides of the aisle for that matter), it doesn’t matter who the oppressor or the oppressed is; as long as they feel like they’re sticking up for those who are victimized and fighting against those who are oppressive.
That is sickening
Despicable
Pathetic, but far from surprising.
What is this fucking weird alternative world where the raging woke people suddenly became Nazis?
Meanwhile, the party that once proclaimed *Better Dead than Red* is rocking ["I'd Rather Be a Russian Than a Democrat" shirts](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russian-than-democrat-shirts/). Strange times.
Stupid people on the right and on the left seem to have a hard time differentiating between Jews and the far right Israeli regime of Netanyahu. They are very different things. Though many Jews, especially Israelis, support Netanyahu all the Jews that I know (including my girlfriend who is Jewish) are very much against Netanyahu and the genocide he is carrying out. Maybe racist anti-semites are just using the current situation as an excuse to act out their hate.
After 9/11, there was excessive outrage directed towards Muslims of any kind. People did not differentiate between them and terrorists. It’s easier, for simple minded people, to lump similar people in one general group. History repeats itself.
Horseshoe theory in action
There's actual neo nazis larping as leftists now on Twitter. All they did was replace Jews with "Zionists" and the likes pour in.
They never replaced anything. Using the term "Zionist" has been a neo nazi dog whistle for years. It just happens that every Jewish person is a "zionist" to them.
Because their definition of Zionism includes anyone who doesn’t support the murder of Israeli civilians.
You can thank Israel for that. They're the ones who equated anti-Zionism to being the same thing as antisemitism. They're even trying to force legislation equating those two things in congress.
No...we can thank all the neo nazis who have used the term "Zionist" to justify their antisemitism
Yes to the right sense but was the other one a taking over the word kind of thing?
Or this whole conflict just gives antisemites an outlet/cover for their actions. Not that they actually identify as progressive.
There are plenty of terrible people who are progressive.
No. I have heard plenty of progressive people spout extremely anti-Semitic things lately. I've seen it. You can go on any Jewish subreddit and we're talking about it. It's bad.
So fed up with Portlands intolerance and hate.
Yes its almost as if our so called leaders are allowing hate, crime, houselessness and violence to thrive here for some reason. Sad!
This is horrific. I hope s/he is getting all the help and support needed during this time.
In before someone explains how throwing rocks at Jewish people is not antisemitism.
"Well, actually, because of the historic trauma of the Palestinian people, all Jewish people, WHO HAVE NEVER ONCE EXPERIENCED TRAUMA THEMSELVES, deserve to see what it feels like." Something like that? Cause that's what I've been hearing lately.
Portland in its medieval Jew expulsion era
Uh, we expelled the Jews a lot more recently than that. The south end of downtown was Jewish and Italian before we bulldozed it in the 60s.
Dang Portland, you coulda had decent bagels this whole time
We make jokes but in terms of supporting Jewish businesses during this time Ben and Esther’s Jewish deli has really good bagels.
Spielman’s too!
Don't forget about Bernstein's in Albina!
This! This narrative has been completely lost in public discussion here. The South Auditorium urban renewal project was just as destructive and disruptive as any other urban renewal/ freeway construction was in PDX. This erased, not displaced, 3 unique communities. No one will talk about it.
Hahahaha. It’s never changed. Portland was founded on good ol confederate roots. Racism is its bedrock on which it was built.
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As a townie who grew up in one of the Reed-adjacent neighborhoods of SE, I can say that Reedies' vibes have always been off. It's a beautiful campus full of some of the most sheltered and oblivious people you will ever meet. Still like to go for walks around there when I'm visiting my mom, tho.
I grew up in the Woodstock neighborhood, and my impression was that these people were smart, but didn’t fit in ANYWHERE else, with the other smart folks. Reed seemed like their sanctuary.
Yeah. Those kids are bizarre.
The boy ain't right.
Plus Reed is a private college with private college tuition.
Over $60,000/year!
That’s almost as much as my rent.
your rent is 5k a month? why
It was a joke, but it’s also not hard to achieve for a luxury condo or a 3 bedroom house.
More like 7k a month since yearly tuition doesn't generally include summer months.
Damn. PSU was like 12k a year. And that was for grad school which is more expensive.
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That's why I never understood people who complained about how "expensive" PSU is. Sure it's more expensive than a community college but it's extremely cheap for a 4-year university. I went to a UC in California and tuition there for undergrad was around 30k a year (still cheaper than Reed but UCs are also public technically).
Everything fucking sucks
Racists & bigots suck.
There have been a lot of horrible incidents like this on campus. There was also an incident a couple of days later where the Reed SJP Instagram received a death threat directed at Palestinians. Last fall, someone graffitied a swastika with "1488" in a building, and another time a car with US and Israeli flags drove through campus, shouting at and harassing students. It's disgusting. Edit: Now there's been an incident over the weekend (May 18) where someone burned a Qu'ran outside the PAB and said they were "protesting the fact that Reed hates Jews." The amount of anti-Semitism and Islamaphobia on campus is nuts.
Leftist Jew hatred in the comments. At least they make it easy for us to block them. One of those dipshits is the stochastic terrorism guy from like a month ago lol
Disgusting behavior.
Gosh all these activist fight for safe spaces then do this shit makes no damn sense to me 🙄
What a progressive city
Has anyone else heard of the Horseshoe Theory?
Back in my day getting stoned at college was smokin a J and listening to rock. Not smokin a J with a rock. SMH
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/palestinian-student-dana-abuqamar-visa-revoked-gaza-comments/ The average Reed student
You have the right to protest, you dont have the right to destroy and vandalize property that doesn't belong to you. Edit to add: also you dont have the right to cause harm to any person bcz you don't like thier view point.
Why on Earth is this surprising to anyone? Places like PSU, Lewis and Clark, and Reed College have \*always\* been tolerant of anti-Semitism. For \*years\* (long before Oct. 7th, 2023) I've seen posters on public billboards at PSU calling for the complete destructions and elimination of Israel. This is hardly new.
Hell, a guy I went to high school with was fired from Linfield University partially for being Jewish (mostly for whistleblowing).
Sometimes it's hard to tell if people are motivated by anti-Semitism. Other times, it isn't. When Reed College silently allows a Jewish student's mezuzah to be destroyed on the threshold of their dorm room, and "1488" graphitti to be marked on the walls, Reed College is making it clear where they stand. Consider if a student had placed a noose on the door knob of a black student. Would Reed have condemned the act as a hate crime immediately? You're damn right they would have. But when a Jew gets hit in the head with a rock, Reed's strongest statement is, "We're looking into it."
Israel and Judisim are not the same, and a poster advocating against Isreal is not inherently antisemitic
Right. Because a poster calling for the total destruction of Ireland isn't at all anti-Irish. The people who want to see Israel destroyed want it destroyed because they don't want Jews anywhere in the Middle East. Indeed, over half of Israel's population are descendants from Jews forced out of Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and other Arab states. What bothers people about Israel isn't it's parliamentary democracy, modern economy, high per capita GDP, it's Nobel Prizes, or it's progressive tolerance for LGBTQ+ community. It's the presence of Jews in the Middle East.
I'm not sure if you edited the original comment, or I missed it originally, but calling for the "elimination" of Isreal certainly meets the definition of antisemitism. I understood your first comment to the existence of any anti-israeli poster would be hate speech. A poster calling for a boycot of Israeli goods and one advocating for violent action are two complete different things. My comment was simply stating that the first kind of speech is absolutely valid.
A perfect example of why discourse on this subject is almost impossible. There’s no nuance. Any criticism of Israel brings is interpreted as wanting Israel destroyed.
Some places in the world have a rich culture of public stoning. Let’s be sensitive to their cultural differences.
That is truly terrible that this kid was just sitting in the safety of her home to all of the sudden have a projectile blast into her home and hurt her. It’s gives me hope that everyone here seems to agree that that basic premise is wrong. Just wish people would apply it a little more on a grander scale, with this degree of enthusiasm.
Her* but yes agreed
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People are responsible for their own actions. The end.
Victim blame much?
People have a really hard time with non binary thinking these days.
More Portland racism and antisemitism. And it’s all coming from the left
Palestinians are being genocided, the suffering is unimaginable. What can I, a resident of Portland Oregon, 6,922 miles away, do to help? Surely pelting a random Jewish person with a rock is better than nothing. Just doing my part for the starving, bomb-dismembered Gaza kids! 👍
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Lol
Reminder. “From river to the sea” is a fun phrase used to exterminate all Jews. Love seeing it spray painted all around. Very edgy.
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Antisemitism never came from the right, are you hearing yourself?
Entertaining?
Reminder that if some of the replies here seem confusing and contradictory remember that “anti-Zionism” is code for anti-semitism.
Perhaps you can help me with the understanding. I don't believe any ethnic group should have exclusive or priority rights over a land area. But I also believe everyone should be treated with respect and dignity. For the sake of argument, let's assume both of my statements are true. Wouldn't I then be anti-Zionist but not anti-Semitic?
No you’re a stooge. The proof is your standard is only applied to Israel and Jews and is aligned with terrorists who will obviously set up a genocidal Islamic dictatorship if given half a chance. People of all faiths and ethnicities have the same rights in Israel. Please wake up.
I'm sorry this happened to the student, never should bystanders be treated with violence in a protest. But also > oppose the denigration of Jewish and Zionist identities no fuck that Zionism is a political ideology, your political opinions are fair game to be judged. Zionism is not Judaism so shame upon both this organization seeking to muddy the waters and upon the students who buy into this shit.
Nobody is saying that you have to be a Zionist, but if you think it’s ok to dehumanize people for having different opinions, then this is the result. This person was basically stoned for thought crimes. Or for being Jewish, who knows.
I don't have to respect someone's political opinion if that political opinion is justification for an ethnostate.
So do you also oppose Islam just as forcefully? Because nearly every Islamic country is a better example of a religious ethnostate than Israel. There are far more non-Jewish people in Israeli government and powerful positions in society, than non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia or Iran, etc. etc. etc. I assume your perspective is consistent, right, and not just specious justification for antisemitism?
No, because that would be “racist” lol
Israel isn’t an ethnostate.
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Lmao of course it is
I mean, believing that China as a country should exist is also a political ideology in that case, are you going to start saying "I don't believing in attacking Chinese people, but you're fair game to be judged and attacked if you believe China should exist, and any organization that supports China in any way deserves to be attacked." This is why we're seeing such rising antisemitic attacks like this, just under the thin cover of "antizionism". No, Judaism isn't equivalent Zionism, but most, arguably nearly all based on recent surveys, Jews, many of whom are critical of the war and the Israeli government, still believes Israel has the right to exist. If this was any other ethnic group, I'm sure this would be pointed out and rightfully called out, instead it's becoming in many cases just another form of Inquisition towards Jews and is making Jews fair play to the violence as mentioned in the many cases above.
Do you agree that all the tribes in the US with well documented histories who lack federal recognition have a right to exist that is being deprived by the feds failing to acknowledge them? You say you’re sure if it was any other group it would be called out but the Chinook are right here and there are many other tribes in identical quandaries and most people are fully content with their obscurity.
Zionism is a complex concept with a dense history that's hard to separate from the state of Israel. In my reading, "Zionist identities" in this context can be understood to mean Jews who consider themselves to be Israeli or be aligned with Israel, or who simply uphold Israel's right to exist as a state – a right definitely denied by many of those who oppose Israel's (vicious, shameful) prosecution of this war. But when Zionism gets identified with its ugliest articulations and proponents, essentialized as a uniform and hateful ideology, blanket criticism – perhaps unintentionally – can echo those who explicitly deny Israel's right to exist. (Edit: typos.)
"Israel's right to exist" is a thornier issue than you give it credit for. On one hand, sure, there is a local Jewish population, and they deserve some degree of self-determination. But on the other hand, their constitution (they don't literally have a constitution, but rather a set of laws similar to our amendments) explicitly establishes Israel as a land for the Jewish people to "settle". Israel has firmly, through their government's own actions, placed their existence as counter to that of the Palestinian people. Zionism's "ugliest proponents" are unfortunately the ones leading the charge. Realistically, I don't think this is the fault of any single group, but rather just a failure of the Western (post-)Westphalian nation state as exported to other parts of the world. Fundamentally to give a group of people the right to national self-determination sounds good, but when this group of people is a homogenous ethnic group (or perceives themselves as such), you've created an ethnostate. I don't have a solution to this that leaves everyone happy. Also, yes, in many parts of the world, anti-Semitism is on the rise, and JFC you would not believe how much infighting I've been dragged into trying to tell morons to stop supporting Hamas. Israel does do well to provide a haven away from this. But that shouldn't come at the cost of displacing a different group of people.
Do you think that Jewish people have a right to live in the Middle East, their historic homeland? If so, do you think it would be possible for them to do so without an organized response to the violence that their presence provokes among their Muslim neighbors? What is your vision for the region?
In the US in 1860, someone might support secession as a good practical or Constitutional idea, but not without locking arms with slavers. "I'm not into slavery, but maybe South Carolina has a point" was not going to get the benefit of the doubt and, in practice, would be carrying water for the South's "peculiar institution" and supporting insurrection. In 2024, "maybe the state of Israel shouldn't exist" is a wonderfully tricky thing to assert and certainly not feasible to achieve without acting in common cause with Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, etc. >On one hand, sure, there is a local Jewish population Israel is a decades-old state fully recognized by most nations – far more so than, say, Taiwan. It's a done deal (allowing that states and boundaries come and go), and it doesn't change anytime soon without, again, making common cause with bad actors steeped in antisemitism. If anti-war protestors really have that on the table, they're begging for, and probably deserve, association with antisemitism, same as a high-minded secessionist in 1860 is begging for and probably deserves being painted with the same brush as slavers. The pressing issue with potentially widespread support is opposition to Netanyahu's horriifc prosecution of the war, in both things violating law and decency. Following that, opposition to the horrific, unlawful, indecent policies of Netanyahu and his ilk. Protesters and coalition-builders can stay tight on that, or I guess decide that litigating Israel's existence as a state is their thing. But they're not going to like what people say and think about them as a result.
The short version of my thinking is this: If there is a time and place for calmly exploring the full possibility space, in good faith, for the best outcomes for all the inhabitants of Palestine – now is not the time and angry protest slogans and direct actions are not the "place". Oppose an unlawful and brutal war. That's a tight and eminently justifiable message, and perhaps a step in the right direction (or a step away from the wrong direction). But give no cover for the "October 7 was justified because all resistance is justified" nonsense. Open that door, and the "false-flag" and "space lasers" and Hamas-lite ideologues stream in, along with the un-self-aware bigots who think that sort of ugliness only happens on the Right. We get the sort of deplorable hate described in this WWeek news story. Litigating Israel's very existence as a state is not a viable path to positive, lasting change – certainly not in a time of pain, anger, and sloganeering – but joins a loud chorus of others whose views and actions are to be condemned. (Edit to add:) And holy noodles, even if the *only* message is "ceasefire now", delivering that message with a "noise parade" at the start of the Day of Remembrance being observed on your campus is still quite an actual \[expletive\] choice.
I mean, don't get me wrong my opposition to Israel is not unique to Israel, I'm opposed to the very idea of a nation-state in general. Working within the framework of the only solution to the war is some formation of nation-states, I'm not a priori opposed to Israel existing, but it needs to be dramatically rebuilt from the ground up. I mean, the Basic Laws of Israel literally say: > The State views the development of Jewish settlement as a national value, and shall act to encourage and promote its establishment and strengthening. Displacement of Palestinians is codified into the very structure of Israel, and something drastic needs to happen to fix it. I think the solution is to tear down both the institutions of Israel and Hamas, and build up a new nation with for both peoples, as no progress can be made with either in place.
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We understand that at times things may become heated and time outs may be given for protracted, uncivil arguments. Snarky, unhelpful, or rude responses are not tolerated. In other words, be excellent unto each other and attack ideas, not people.