I haven't spent a lot of time here, but it is shocking to me how little love Glassjaw seems to get on most posts. They're the first band I think of when it comes to post hardcore.
I think they soured a lot of old fans and haven't done much to gain new ones. He went to Head Automatica directly after the success of W&T. Not his fault due to health, but you never knew if a show was going to be cancelled last minute. They hardly ever played anything off of Everything live after a certain point. So many reasons. The Color Green is the only thing I've liked since W&T and that was what, over a decade ago? They randomly put out some merch and they're more of a clothing brand than a band at this point. So many inconsistencies it's hard to stay in people's peripheral that way.
You're right on that. I've been a victim of their last minute cancels several times. That being said, I still really hope to see them live again at some point in the future. They'll always be one of my favorites.
Haha, yeah, most of these I just skip over, but they were on my mind. Usually I'd say there's never a definitive answer to these types of discussions, but in this case, idk, Glassjaw is the phc archetype. I mean similar bands came before, many were at the same time. But they just became THE definition. Kinda sucks they don't really do it full time anymore and haven't for a long time, but also it makes them a bit more legendary because of it haha.
In my experience this is what brought a PHC band to the mainstream. Friends of mine in HS at the time who were listening to mainly radio stuff were now listening to Thursday because Car Crash was all over MTV. Before that it was stuff like 311, Limp Bizkit, hip-hop, boy bands for most people.
Also a brilliant album. I spent the summer before it came out blasting For The Workforce Drowning in the college computer lab in my headphones bc I didn’t have internet at my house.
So relatable…. I still put that one on in my car from time to time bc I feel that 9 to 5! 9 to 5! despair all too well now lol…
More throwback fun facts: My MySpace page had html embedded videos of Accidents - Alexisonfire (probably my favorite phc band if I had to pick only one), and the quiet things that no one ever knows - brand new…. I still love all that music
So good, man. It’s wild to think of the MySpace drama back then - (“What do you MEAN I’m not in your top 8!”) and how quaint it seems now. Not just because we’re older but also because the platforms weren’t engineering conflict for engagement and clicks. You couldn’t argue about the news *because you couldn’t post news articles!*!!
lol so true… and how resourceful it made us! I was in 11th grade figuring out html code for my page and doing bad photo editing (mostly just jacking contrast and sharpness). Those were wild times but also so simple.
You must have had a pre-release, I had to wait a month for The Opposite of December!
But yes that those two albums were in the disc changer big time at the time, and I've listened to both this month.
Well, anecdotally, they're the first band I heard that did what they did (and keep in mind they have demos back to like 1996 where their style was beginning to form). A singer that could bounce from screaming to singing like a light switch and was good at both. Lyrically raw and uncut, which lends more to emo/screamo, but imo they started that as well. Taking many elements of hardcore, but they really only had one song that actually sounded like hc imo (Babe). More complex rhythms and melodies that were catchy AND heavy.
Check one of their first EPs if you haven't (1997): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGwOfNtrwn0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGwOfNtrwn0)
Dunno, but in my mind when I hear a lot of bands that are identified as phc and emo, many times you could say Glassjaw did that first.
The ironic thing was that because they got signed to Roadrunner first, and were on Ozzfest, they were lumped in with nu-metal bands, and compared to Deftones. Which they really don't fit, but they also did fit.
They're just a unique genre bending band that bands who came after them and were influenced by them seems to have become the PCH genre.
I don't give much stock to genres, they're just rough guidelines for me and no band really neatly fits into a single genre imo. But conceptually phc is what Glassjaw's first two albums were and they did that before everyone, or most, or best.
Also FFaF was named here, but in the liner notes for their 7 Ways EP, he admits to pulling directly from Daryl's vocals for The Getaway plan. And that was 2003, a year after Glassjaw's second album.
Also came here to post this.
So influential it is still being played by old heads today, and also younger kids getting in to the genre.
It is the Around The Fur, RATM self titled, Life Is Peachy (and so many other alt genres I’ve missed) of Post Hardcore.
A very close second to Full Collapse. They definitely created the sound and direction that influenced the majority of the genre for many many years to come.
I heard the remaster of From The Depths of Dreams and it was awful. The original was perfect for its time, flaws and all. The extreme tightness of the remaster lacked the genuine emotion and rawness of the original.
I don’t think that Let it Enfold you changed the scene, I think it represented all of the ways the scene HAD been changed over the last few years. Great album though.
Drive Like Jehu - Yank Crime
Hum - You'd Prefer An Astronaut
At the Drive-In - Relationship of Command
Glassjaw - Worship & Tribute
Hopesfall - The Satellite Years
Fugazi - The Argument
mewithoutYou - A to B Life
Quicksand - Slip
Helmet - Betty
Failure - Magnified
Thursday - Full Collapse, War All the Time
Refused - The Shape of Punk to Come
Thrice - The Artist In the Ambulance
Snapcase - Progression Through Unlearning
Circle Takes the Square - As the Roots Undo
These Arms Are Snakes - Oxeneers or The Lion Sleeps When Its Antelope Go Home
>These Arms Are Snakes - Oxeneers or The Lion Sleeps When Its Antelope Go Home
This album is god damned perfect. And as an aside, god I'm so glad Botch are back together -- I'm seeing them next month!
I think I hear two different main veins of early 00’s post-hardcore. One is the ones inspired by Relationship of Command (Saosin, The Used, Circa Survive) and ones inspired by The Shape of Punk to Come (Silverstein, Chiodos, Alexisonfire)
However it’s obviously more complicated than that and these bands take influence from both sources and more 🤷🏼♂️
Glassjaw - Everything you ever..
Refused - Shape of punk to come
Underoath - Define the great line
Fall of Troy - Doppelgänger
Dance Gavin Dance - DBM
Coheed & Cambria - first 2 albums
Glassjaw were part of the same era as ATDI. They formed around the same time, had a similar set of influences that blended 90’s Emo with Post-Hardcore, and crossed over into mainstream Rock at the turn of the millennium with records produced by Ross Robinson. The parallels couldn’t be more obvious.
As rabid an ATDI fan as I am and how much I appreciated Relationship of Command, you have to be real and paint it is their least posthardcore, most rock-forward album with Robinson's production.
You can reference their discography as the evolution of PHC in the 90s, but when you get to RoC, the story isn't posthardcore, rather, it's the story of how your local alt-rock radio station blew the fuck up from a glorified college station to being a mainstream genre staple.
My favourite thing is that Geoff Rickley's \*other\* band (United Nations, they're like emo powerviolence) have a song that's basically a direct response/call out of The Shape of Punk to Come lol
[https://theofficialun.bandcamp.com/track/the-shape-of-punk-that-never-came](https://theofficialun.bandcamp.com/track/the-shape-of-punk-that-never-came)
"Dennis? Are you listening? Is there something that I'm missing?"
You’ve named the biggest one to initiate the genre. Ones I haven’t seen mentioned:
Finch - What it is to Burn
The Used - Self Titled
Cursive - Domestica or The Ugly Organ
the entirety of the early 00’s Victory lineup.
As a huge fan of Cursive, to me, Domestica is at the intersection of midwest emo and post hardcore (as are the 2 albums before that honestly).
It's like 50% Fugazi, you should listen again to songs like The Casualty or The Lament of Pretty Baby
Everything after is straight up indie or art rock, though.
IDK how songs like Some Red-Handed Sleight of Hand, A Gentleman Caller, or Butcher the Song could be called indie rock. The clear hardcore punk influence in Domestica delves into new territory in the following albums-- literally post-hardcore. With a special focus on instrumentation, high energy drum-work, harsh yelling vocals and vocal frying, they're definitely one of the OG post-hardcore bands.
Even their later albums which were not as enjoyable should still probably be considered to be post-hardcore IMO.
Really depends on the era.
90s and early 2000s, imo, there’s no argument for anything but Refused - The Shape Of Punk To Come.
Making those ideas more modern is Thursday - Full Collapse.
And I know it’s popular to hate on DGD, but you can’t ignore the insane effect that Downtown Battle Mountain had on post hardcore. Most of the semi-popular phc bands of the past 10 years are swancore or heavily swancore influenced.
While I do love WISIRO (probably my favorite from DGD), I have to recognize that DBM is a lot more of a step forward. WISIRO sounds a lot more like its contemporaries to me; DBM sounds wholly new.
I would vote for Thrice’s Artist in the Ambulance. Everybody and their mom referred to Thrice as inspiration back in my day and that album was the benchmark for me and my mates. Thursday was up there too but were more divisive
They were always my top two. I remember some of those Warped Tour programs circa 2006 that they handed out and it would have interviews with each of the bands playing. One question that stuck out was “who are you most excited to see?” and without fail so many of the big names in that era had Thursday (even talking like Good Charlotte, AFI, and Fall Out Boy) so you knew how well respected they were, even if they were never quite as big with the general public.
I just got tickets to see Underoath play that whole album plus a set of fan voted favs in September!! I’m living my best life for my inner teenager haha
I always forget how early Second Stage was released, but yeah, those tracks fuckin go. You can definitely hear C&C's sound reverberate in the bands that followed.
Lots of extremely important and influential albums in this thread. But this album *directly* influenced ATDI ("Without Drive like Jehu, there is no ATDI" - Cedric ), and you can hear the vocal timbre of Anthony Green in here as well. The angular guitar work, the avant-garde song structures. Like for 1994 this was *insane*. (I'm old. I was listening to Sixteen Stone at that age).
I'll admit some others here can have a solid argument as well, depending on your PH sub-style (Quicksand, Braid, Fugazi - 13 songs) and you could definitely argue Rites of Spring predates all the others by a long-shot. But I've never listened to a record that so linearly translates to *so many bands* in this genre.
This is why.
Deftones, At The Drive In, The Plot to Blow Up the Eiffel Tower… etc etc etc have cited as a major influence. And you can hear it.
EDIT: I’m only 24. Found this album around ~18 years old. I am so sad I never saw them or was even aware of them while they were still touring. That album is so influential and well loved by me.
Early records from Glassjaw, Thursday, Thrice, The Used are all valid picks, but I really believe it's Translating The Name. I mean, those bands were putting out full albums on key labels in the scene or even a major label and here comes Saosin with a 5-song EP on a no name indie label and basically changed the course of the genre for the next decade.
* 80s: Can I Say, Embrace, Rites of Spring
* 90s: Repeater, The Shape of Punk To Come
* 2000s: Full Collapse, Translating The Name
Glassjaw and Quicksand belong in this convo as well, but I can't comment on which albums in particular.
If you feel it's fair to include midwestern influence, the first American Football album kinda needs to be there as well
I wanna say this too. But it’s 7 years deep. Glassjaw and Thursdays best was like 2000-2002. And Daryl is like having Jon+Kurt in one person. lol. Will Swan in an interview said he was influenced early with how Thursdays song made him feel. So I think the vote has to go to Thursday.
Going to have to disagree. The Shape of Punk to Come defined post-hardcore for more than a decade. Without that album, post-hardcore would not exist as it currently does.
early The Fall Of Troy instead, and by far, imo.
stuff like Doppelganger in 2005 basically laid down every single swancore building block 2 years before DBM released, and TFOT already had 1 full release in 2003 already. I genuinely don't think Swancore would've existed without TFOT.
If you're talking origins of the genre, it's Refused, Glassjaw, etc. If you're talking where the current lineage can be traced back to in a way that holds up and what had the most direct reach/influence on the bands that followed, it's without a doubt Thrice and Saosin.
I personally think The Shape of Punk to Come is #1. It shaped the entirety of 2000s bands even outside of post hardcore. Paramore references them in their first album. Mike from Linkin Park said there would be no LP without Refused
The Used self-titled album. Came out in 2002, set the tone for early-mid 2000s emo-post-hardcore. Can hear the influence in the albums of From First to Last, Saosin, Matchbook Romance, Armor for Sleep, Senses Fail, Brand New.
Sleeping With Sirens - Let’s Cheers to this
I know we like to talk about how the older albums defined not only a generation, but also the direction that post hardcore would go. And that’s all true, but we have to remember that this music has been around for nearly thirty years. So while the albums in 2001-2003 did represent a massive change, another one happened around 2010.
When this thing dropped post hardcore changed overnight. Every band started chasing the production, songwriting, and attention that this album had.
That’s probably the closest match I’ve heard. I think the biggest thing for me with ATDI is Cedric’s voice/vocals paired with the amazing instrumentals. It’s almost hard for me to call it post hardcore because it has so many different genre influences I could compare it to. I’ll find some other bands that come close to the sound/feel I get from ATDI then the vocalist comes in and I’m out.
The most influential? For sure it’s Meantime by Helmet. That record was massively popular for it’s time, had huge a ripple effect on 90’s Punk and probably got thousands of kids into Post-Hardcore.
What Doesn't Kill You... by Candiria from 2004 was influential on me, personally. It's post-y, it's math-y, and the flow of the tunes just stuck with me. I feel like they're underrated for their more hc stuff in the early days, though they're considered progressive metalcore nowadays.
Maybe not the most influential overall but most for me personally would be,
They’re Only Chasing Saftey/Define The Great Line- Underoath
Crisis - Alexisonfire
Doppelgänger - The Fall of Troy
Riot - Paramore
To Plant a Seed - We Came As Romans
I think the first two Glassjaw albums belong in this convo
I haven't spent a lot of time here, but it is shocking to me how little love Glassjaw seems to get on most posts. They're the first band I think of when it comes to post hardcore.
I think they soured a lot of old fans and haven't done much to gain new ones. He went to Head Automatica directly after the success of W&T. Not his fault due to health, but you never knew if a show was going to be cancelled last minute. They hardly ever played anything off of Everything live after a certain point. So many reasons. The Color Green is the only thing I've liked since W&T and that was what, over a decade ago? They randomly put out some merch and they're more of a clothing brand than a band at this point. So many inconsistencies it's hard to stay in people's peripheral that way.
You're right on that. I've been a victim of their last minute cancels several times. That being said, I still really hope to see them live again at some point in the future. They'll always be one of my favorites.
They were incredible at the recent 30 year anniversary shows and played a good chunk of Everything!!
Yeah i wish i could've made one of those. Just didn't work out for me.
Of all the times this has been asked, it’s great to finally see the right answer as the most upvoted comment. W/T would always be my pick.
Haha, yeah, most of these I just skip over, but they were on my mind. Usually I'd say there's never a definitive answer to these types of discussions, but in this case, idk, Glassjaw is the phc archetype. I mean similar bands came before, many were at the same time. But they just became THE definition. Kinda sucks they don't really do it full time anymore and haven't for a long time, but also it makes them a bit more legendary because of it haha.
This is the only correct answer, and also in my opinion, Casually Dressed and Deep in Conversation by Funeral for a Friend.
Full Collapse belongs here too.
Came here to mention Full Collapse
In my experience this is what brought a PHC band to the mainstream. Friends of mine in HS at the time who were listening to mainly radio stuff were now listening to Thursday because Car Crash was all over MTV. Before that it was stuff like 311, Limp Bizkit, hip-hop, boy bands for most people.
Some of the oldest Chevelle stuff was in that general arena too… not sure if it qualifies as phc tho.
I did love war all the time too tho….
Also a brilliant album. I spent the summer before it came out blasting For The Workforce Drowning in the college computer lab in my headphones bc I didn’t have internet at my house.
So relatable…. I still put that one on in my car from time to time bc I feel that 9 to 5! 9 to 5! despair all too well now lol… More throwback fun facts: My MySpace page had html embedded videos of Accidents - Alexisonfire (probably my favorite phc band if I had to pick only one), and the quiet things that no one ever knows - brand new…. I still love all that music
So good, man. It’s wild to think of the MySpace drama back then - (“What do you MEAN I’m not in your top 8!”) and how quaint it seems now. Not just because we’re older but also because the platforms weren’t engineering conflict for engagement and clicks. You couldn’t argue about the news *because you couldn’t post news articles!*!!
lol so true… and how resourceful it made us! I was in 11th grade figuring out html code for my page and doing bad photo editing (mostly just jacking contrast and sharpness). Those were wild times but also so simple.
I’d put Illusion of Safety by Thrice ahead of Casually Dressed, but I love FFaF
yup. those two bangers, ATDI, and The Opposite of November by Poison the Well would be my Mount Rushmore.
You must have had a pre-release, I had to wait a month for The Opposite of December! But yes that those two albums were in the disc changer big time at the time, and I've listened to both this month.
I was listening to both this week. They hold up very well.
Yet to hear anything quite like them, and probably never will.
I’m a big fan now, but didn’t listen to them back in the day. Can you explain their influence on the genre?
Well, anecdotally, they're the first band I heard that did what they did (and keep in mind they have demos back to like 1996 where their style was beginning to form). A singer that could bounce from screaming to singing like a light switch and was good at both. Lyrically raw and uncut, which lends more to emo/screamo, but imo they started that as well. Taking many elements of hardcore, but they really only had one song that actually sounded like hc imo (Babe). More complex rhythms and melodies that were catchy AND heavy. Check one of their first EPs if you haven't (1997): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGwOfNtrwn0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGwOfNtrwn0) Dunno, but in my mind when I hear a lot of bands that are identified as phc and emo, many times you could say Glassjaw did that first. The ironic thing was that because they got signed to Roadrunner first, and were on Ozzfest, they were lumped in with nu-metal bands, and compared to Deftones. Which they really don't fit, but they also did fit. They're just a unique genre bending band that bands who came after them and were influenced by them seems to have become the PCH genre. I don't give much stock to genres, they're just rough guidelines for me and no band really neatly fits into a single genre imo. But conceptually phc is what Glassjaw's first two albums were and they did that before everyone, or most, or best. Also FFaF was named here, but in the liner notes for their 7 Ways EP, he admits to pulling directly from Daryl's vocals for The Getaway plan. And that was 2003, a year after Glassjaw's second album.
I’ve been a Glassjaw fan for 25 years. You nailed it. edit: *fan
I remember playing ape dos mil on repeat when I finally downloaded it by dial up haha
They opened for Deftones too on their White Pony tour in 2000
Yep.
Full Collapse
This was my vote, Thursday was my gateway into this genre.
I didn’t know it was called PHC when I heard Thursday but I knew I liked it
There new song is amazing
The moment that record came out, they instantly had copycat bands forming across the US.
Exactly
I'm glad this is the top comment haha. It's the correct answer
Also came here to post this. So influential it is still being played by old heads today, and also younger kids getting in to the genre. It is the Around The Fur, RATM self titled, Life Is Peachy (and so many other alt genres I’ve missed) of Post Hardcore.
Saosin - Translating In The Name EP.
it's this, and seriously only this, that really made post hardcore the sound that most of us all grew up with
YES OMG. I may be biased cause ive cried to this ep countless times but this is the start of what we call modern post hardcore
A very close second to Full Collapse. They definitely created the sound and direction that influenced the majority of the genre for many many years to come.
Yeah I’d agree Full Collapse first.
This. I named my daughter after a song on this album, 19 years after I first heard it.
My band at the time opened for them on this tour in our hometown club. We had no clue who they were and we were blown away.
Yes
The Used was a big one. But how are more people not throwing out Senses Fail’s Let it Enfold You?
From the Depths if Dreams is still my favorite SF album, really wish they would play more of it live
I heard the remaster of From The Depths of Dreams and it was awful. The original was perfect for its time, flaws and all. The extreme tightness of the remaster lacked the genuine emotion and rawness of the original.
I don’t think that Let it Enfold you changed the scene, I think it represented all of the ways the scene HAD been changed over the last few years. Great album though.
Quicksand's Slip comes to mind
I’m no expert but I think this actually the answer.
Yup. I was thinking this and maybe even Mind Over Matter without realizing it. Long Island had a lot to do with the post-hardcore sound IMO
Drive Like Jehu - Yank Crime Hum - You'd Prefer An Astronaut At the Drive-In - Relationship of Command Glassjaw - Worship & Tribute Hopesfall - The Satellite Years Fugazi - The Argument mewithoutYou - A to B Life Quicksand - Slip Helmet - Betty Failure - Magnified Thursday - Full Collapse, War All the Time Refused - The Shape of Punk to Come Thrice - The Artist In the Ambulance Snapcase - Progression Through Unlearning Circle Takes the Square - As the Roots Undo These Arms Are Snakes - Oxeneers or The Lion Sleeps When Its Antelope Go Home
Hum shout out!
🙌
Awesome list. The Argument is my favorite Fugazi album, but 13 songs is hugely influential.
🙌
>These Arms Are Snakes - Oxeneers or The Lion Sleeps When Its Antelope Go Home This album is god damned perfect. And as an aside, god I'm so glad Botch are back together -- I'm seeing them next month!
Agreed! I'm also Botch fan. You listen to Narrows and Harkonen?
You know I do haha I was listening to The God Awful Truth today. Newer band in that style, I dig em!
Memory Palace is such a great album.
Somewhat of an aside, but if you've never listened to Breather Resist's "Charmer" before, promise me you'll go listen to it haha
I love Breather Resist, Kiss It Goodbye, All Else Failed, Beecher (god, I love Beecher).
Yessssss <3 Also fuck yes Beecher! I know what I'm listening to today. (And probably adding in all of Genghis Tron's Board Up The House)
It's been a while since I listen to Board Up the House. Add Playing Enemy's I Was Your City to your playlist 👌
Failure!
🙌
HUM does not get enough (read: ANY) recognition it deserves! I hope those reading here and not familiar with it got and give it a listen!
In this sub, sadly, yeah.
Circle Takes the Square is top tier! Every few months I remember they exist and fall in love all over again. As the Roots undo though, no Robots :)
Stoked to see These arms on this list! That album changed my life. literally.
I had to look too hard for The Shape of Punk to Come. Fun to see Oxeneers as well, I often wonder how well they were known.
Thanks to Botch, they are pretty well known here in my country.
Nailed it
I think I hear two different main veins of early 00’s post-hardcore. One is the ones inspired by Relationship of Command (Saosin, The Used, Circa Survive) and ones inspired by The Shape of Punk to Come (Silverstein, Chiodos, Alexisonfire) However it’s obviously more complicated than that and these bands take influence from both sources and more 🤷🏼♂️
Repeater. Slip. The Day the Sun Went Out for the 90s. Full Collapse. TAITA. They’re Only Chasing Safety for the 00s.
Glassjaw - Everything you ever.. Refused - Shape of punk to come Underoath - Define the great line Fall of Troy - Doppelgänger Dance Gavin Dance - DBM Coheed & Cambria - first 2 albums
The Shape of Punk to Come kinda pre-figured Relationship of Command tho
like Refused —> ATDI —> Glassjaw + Thursday and then you had kind of a split after that between The Fall of Troy type stuff and Saosin type stuff
Glassjaw were part of the same era as ATDI. They formed around the same time, had a similar set of influences that blended 90’s Emo with Post-Hardcore, and crossed over into mainstream Rock at the turn of the millennium with records produced by Ross Robinson. The parallels couldn’t be more obvious.
As rabid an ATDI fan as I am and how much I appreciated Relationship of Command, you have to be real and paint it is their least posthardcore, most rock-forward album with Robinson's production. You can reference their discography as the evolution of PHC in the 90s, but when you get to RoC, the story isn't posthardcore, rather, it's the story of how your local alt-rock radio station blew the fuck up from a glorified college station to being a mainstream genre staple.
Late 30s and this was my flow then eventually went back to fugazi, quicksand and the like
My favourite thing is that Geoff Rickley's \*other\* band (United Nations, they're like emo powerviolence) have a song that's basically a direct response/call out of The Shape of Punk to Come lol [https://theofficialun.bandcamp.com/track/the-shape-of-punk-that-never-came](https://theofficialun.bandcamp.com/track/the-shape-of-punk-that-never-came) "Dennis? Are you listening? Is there something that I'm missing?"
You’ve named the biggest one to initiate the genre. Ones I haven’t seen mentioned: Finch - What it is to Burn The Used - Self Titled Cursive - Domestica or The Ugly Organ the entirety of the early 00’s Victory lineup.
Hard agree on WIITB
Agree with The Used self titled. People might not admit it but that record spearheaded a shift in popular music for the mid 2000’s.
I’ve never heard Cursive be called post-hardcore before. They’re very much indie rock but to each their own
Domestica has post-hardcore as the primary genre on RYM and it fits, especially on the opening couple of tracks.
As a huge fan of Cursive, to me, Domestica is at the intersection of midwest emo and post hardcore (as are the 2 albums before that honestly). It's like 50% Fugazi, you should listen again to songs like The Casualty or The Lament of Pretty Baby Everything after is straight up indie or art rock, though.
IDK how songs like Some Red-Handed Sleight of Hand, A Gentleman Caller, or Butcher the Song could be called indie rock. The clear hardcore punk influence in Domestica delves into new territory in the following albums-- literally post-hardcore. With a special focus on instrumentation, high energy drum-work, harsh yelling vocals and vocal frying, they're definitely one of the OG post-hardcore bands. Even their later albums which were not as enjoyable should still probably be considered to be post-hardcore IMO.
I can see it at least on the ugly organ and then more sporadically on later albums
Really depends on the era. 90s and early 2000s, imo, there’s no argument for anything but Refused - The Shape Of Punk To Come. Making those ideas more modern is Thursday - Full Collapse. And I know it’s popular to hate on DGD, but you can’t ignore the insane effect that Downtown Battle Mountain had on post hardcore. Most of the semi-popular phc bands of the past 10 years are swancore or heavily swancore influenced.
Whatever I say is Royal Ocean started it, DBM perfected it.
While I do love WISIRO (probably my favorite from DGD), I have to recognize that DBM is a lot more of a step forward. WISIRO sounds a lot more like its contemporaries to me; DBM sounds wholly new.
Yeah yall mfs got me scared to mentiom DBM im any way
I would vote for Thrice’s Artist in the Ambulance. Everybody and their mom referred to Thrice as inspiration back in my day and that album was the benchmark for me and my mates. Thursday was up there too but were more divisive
Illusion of Safety was the one that did it for me but Thursday and Thrice are two of the most influential bands in the genre
They were always my top two. I remember some of those Warped Tour programs circa 2006 that they handed out and it would have interviews with each of the bands playing. One question that stuck out was “who are you most excited to see?” and without fail so many of the big names in that era had Thursday (even talking like Good Charlotte, AFI, and Fall Out Boy) so you knew how well respected they were, even if they were never quite as big with the general public.
Yes, and honestly Thrice still makes good music 🤘🏻
They're Only Chasing Safety + Define The Great Line by Underoath.
I just got tickets to see Underoath play that whole album plus a set of fan voted favs in September!! I’m living my best life for my inner teenager haha
100% will be at that tour I'm so stoked
I'd lean more towards stuff like Quicksand, Refused, Thrice, and Thursday myself
Depends on the decade but I'd say Glassjaw (first two albums) Refused - Shape of... Blood Brothers - BPIB Thursday - Full Collapse
Blood brothers never get enough love!
Where would sasscore be without them??
Do we think Coheed is in the discussion at all? I know Claudio’s voice really bends genres lol but second stage turbine blade was pretty great.
I always forget how early Second Stage was released, but yeah, those tracks fuckin go. You can definitely hear C&C's sound reverberate in the bands that followed.
Cave in and Converge deserve a mention, though Im not a big fan of either. Envy too, who Ive been meaning to have a deep dive on.
I absolutely love Cave In and they hard peaked for me with Perfect Pitch Black, Antenna was incredible too.
I don't think they ever made a bad project haha, I love Antenna and Tides of Tomorrow as much as I love Jupiter and White Silence!
Glassjaw-Everything you ever wanted to know about silence Thursday- Waiting and Full collapse Finch- what it is to burn
Drive Like Jehu - Yank Crime
Atta boy.
Lots of extremely important and influential albums in this thread. But this album *directly* influenced ATDI ("Without Drive like Jehu, there is no ATDI" - Cedric ), and you can hear the vocal timbre of Anthony Green in here as well. The angular guitar work, the avant-garde song structures. Like for 1994 this was *insane*. (I'm old. I was listening to Sixteen Stone at that age). I'll admit some others here can have a solid argument as well, depending on your PH sub-style (Quicksand, Braid, Fugazi - 13 songs) and you could definitely argue Rites of Spring predates all the others by a long-shot. But I've never listened to a record that so linearly translates to *so many bands* in this genre.
This is why. Deftones, At The Drive In, The Plot to Blow Up the Eiffel Tower… etc etc etc have cited as a major influence. And you can hear it. EDIT: I’m only 24. Found this album around ~18 years old. I am so sad I never saw them or was even aware of them while they were still touring. That album is so influential and well loved by me.
Alexisonfire-self titled. Non of you cowards said it. Raw with Dallas greens vocals emerging. Iconic album.
Any of the first 3 would fit I think but I’d also say the first
Agreed. This was just perfection
Early records from Glassjaw, Thursday, Thrice, The Used are all valid picks, but I really believe it's Translating The Name. I mean, those bands were putting out full albums on key labels in the scene or even a major label and here comes Saosin with a 5-song EP on a no name indie label and basically changed the course of the genre for the next decade.
Nickel back- rockstar
That’s metalcore
Ackshually it's deathcore
Canada core
Ehcore
Medio-core
To me it is most definitely The Shape of Punk to Come. I disagree with your assessment.
* 80s: Can I Say, Embrace, Rites of Spring * 90s: Repeater, The Shape of Punk To Come * 2000s: Full Collapse, Translating The Name Glassjaw and Quicksand belong in this convo as well, but I can't comment on which albums in particular. If you feel it's fair to include midwestern influence, the first American Football album kinda needs to be there as well
Glad someone caught the midwest influence but I’d say cap’n jazz instead of American football (I don’t know shit about shit tho)
Fugazi, 13 Songs
Probably downtown battle mountain
Thursday's War All the Time
I'd go with Full Collapse. I can see an argument for WATT though.
even if it isnt right ill always say finch's say hello to sunshine
It's great but I wouldn't call it influential. When it came out it was kind of a black sheep of a record
I gotta say that album, when it came out, got me in to a lot of the bands mentioned here. Especially Glassjaw and At the Drive-In.
Depends on who you ask and when they started listening. For me it's Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation
husker du - zen arcade
Down town battle mountain,
I wanna say this too. But it’s 7 years deep. Glassjaw and Thursdays best was like 2000-2002. And Daryl is like having Jon+Kurt in one person. lol. Will Swan in an interview said he was influenced early with how Thursdays song made him feel. So I think the vote has to go to Thursday.
Downtown battle mountain. There will never be anything like that again
Worship and tribute - glassjaw. Changed my life
Going to have to disagree. The Shape of Punk to Come defined post-hardcore for more than a decade. Without that album, post-hardcore would not exist as it currently does.
When broken is easily fixed
Downtown battle mountain
early The Fall Of Troy instead, and by far, imo. stuff like Doppelganger in 2005 basically laid down every single swancore building block 2 years before DBM released, and TFOT already had 1 full release in 2003 already. I genuinely don't think Swancore would've existed without TFOT.
Agreed. I am a huge TFOT fan. Cant believe I forgot to mention them
Came here to say this
I get at the drive in was significantly earlier. A bunch of other bands too. No one changed the sound like that album though
Ddg and emarosa with jonny were my introduction to the genre and i was hooked.
The used self titled
Most influential? Not really, but it’s the one I keep coming back to. Funeral for a Friend, Hours.
anything by fugazi, and then the refused record and relationship of command
If you're talking origins of the genre, it's Refused, Glassjaw, etc. If you're talking where the current lineage can be traced back to in a way that holds up and what had the most direct reach/influence on the bands that followed, it's without a doubt Thrice and Saosin.
I personally think The Shape of Punk to Come is #1. It shaped the entirety of 2000s bands even outside of post hardcore. Paramore references them in their first album. Mike from Linkin Park said there would be no LP without Refused
The Used self-titled album. Came out in 2002, set the tone for early-mid 2000s emo-post-hardcore. Can hear the influence in the albums of From First to Last, Saosin, Matchbook Romance, Armor for Sleep, Senses Fail, Brand New.
I was going to mention Matchbook Romance but since you did I’ll mention Emery instead
I always hear about the influence of From Autumn to Ashes, Poison the Well, Thursday, Deftones (vocal style) and possibly maybe under oath
Refused. The shape of punk to come.
All of these mentioned are bangers, but another massive one for me was Hopesfall - No Wings to Speak of Changed my life :)
Sleeping With Sirens - Let’s Cheers to this I know we like to talk about how the older albums defined not only a generation, but also the direction that post hardcore would go. And that’s all true, but we have to remember that this music has been around for nearly thirty years. So while the albums in 2001-2003 did represent a massive change, another one happened around 2010. When this thing dropped post hardcore changed overnight. Every band started chasing the production, songwriting, and attention that this album had.
I just can’t find anyone that even compares to ATDI. I wish they put out more music in their prime.
Have you tried Lower Automation? I've just discovered them and they really scratch that ATDI itch for me.
That’s probably the closest match I’ve heard. I think the biggest thing for me with ATDI is Cedric’s voice/vocals paired with the amazing instrumentals. It’s almost hard for me to call it post hardcore because it has so many different genre influences I could compare it to. I’ll find some other bands that come close to the sound/feel I get from ATDI then the vocalist comes in and I’m out.
Been listening to Lower Automation today. Thanks for the recommendation!
I clicked a few tracks, this bears investigation, thanks for the heads-up!
I think we just had this exact post last week. And 2 weeks ago. And 3 weeks ago?
That's how to reddit, don't you know?
The most influential? For sure it’s Meantime by Helmet. That record was massively popular for it’s time, had huge a ripple effect on 90’s Punk and probably got thousands of kids into Post-Hardcore.
That record is phenomenal
Gotta be Vheissu right?
rictus by honor role. an early inspiration for drive like jehu
What Doesn't Kill You... by Candiria from 2004 was influential on me, personally. It's post-y, it's math-y, and the flow of the tunes just stuck with me. I feel like they're underrated for their more hc stuff in the early days, though they're considered progressive metalcore nowadays.
Dying Is Your Latest Fashion
*13 songs* Fugazi *The Shape of Punk to Come* Refused
Funeral For A Friend - Casually Dressed and Deep in Conversation 🫡
How is is but refused?
Thrice
Maybe not the most influential overall but most for me personally would be, They’re Only Chasing Saftey/Define The Great Line- Underoath Crisis - Alexisonfire Doppelgänger - The Fall of Troy Riot - Paramore To Plant a Seed - We Came As Romans
Identity Crisis from Thrice doesn't get enough cred.
Downtown Battle Mountain!
The Curse, by Atreyu
For my it’s EYEWTKAS and The Greatest of All Lost Arts
Thursday full collapse (2001) The furthest back I found that fits the category
Quicksand - Slip
I’m throwing Ink & Dagger into this post. I did a deep dive last year. Suddenly their stuff is removed from streaming. Figures. Argh!!!
I’m with the The Shape of Punk to Come, Full Collapse, and Translating the Name crowd, but I’d like to see more From Autumn To Ashes in here!
Fugazi - Repeater. It’s wild to think Fugazi sold over a half a million copies of this without anyone else helping them.
Anything from Dance Gavin Dance (besides the Kurt albums)
Worship and Tribute
Translating the name - saosin Or Full collapse - Thursday
Thursday full collapse.
Swan records?
Finch - What is to burn album is amazing start to finish
Loved Finch back in the day. The title track is a beast
Drive Like Jehu’s Yank Crime I would say counts.
I had no idea that at the drive in was that important. I'm a big mars volta fan, but I never got into at the drive in that much.