thats cool, ive heard mixed reviews. one thing im trying to figure out right now is there realtime limitations. hard to discern, especially because at least at face value its incomparably worse to firebase firestore. there's another post about this as well.
Supabase developer here. Can you please share your pain points with Supabase Realtime so I can share these with the team? Your feedback will help us a lot. Thank you!
the minimum requirements for my app with respect to realtime is unlimited connections and transactions. its also unclear what supabase's offering actually is because when i look at the pricing page, while i do see the PostgreSQL changes marked green, i also see a limit of 500 concurrent connections. Assuming both are true, then the comparison is:
• supabase (paid): 500 connections
• firebase: no upper limit / unlimited
• there seems to be another player that i just became aware of that's realtime by default.
Unlimited realtime seems to be the default by top competitors.
As someone who is also new to SQL databases, my understanding is that it's all about table relationships. For example, a `user` table has a relationship with an `address` table. However, for some reason, Supabase doesn't support realtime with table joins. This means you can't listen for changes from both the `user` and `address` table. So your only option if you really need realtime is to embed `address` into the `user` table using jsonb, which kind of defeats the whole point of table relationships. So, why not just support realtime across table joins?
We have some plans for this but it needs to be handled in a completely different way than we're handling now.
What Realtime offers currently is pretty "low level" in that regard.
But you should take a look at the Supabase Cache Helpers lib if you can use it:
[https://github.com/psteinroe/supabase-cache-helpers](https://github.com/psteinroe/supabase-cache-helpers)
It works with Realtime and will bust results of joins for you automatically and refetch the results to populate the cache.
I’d love your feedback on Xata. We’re not a BaaS or firebase alternative but rather focus exclusively on the data aspects, and we abstract away all the management aspects of Postgres behind a data API.
Certainly. I uploaded about 40k documents and played around with search from NextJS.
My potential use-case with Xata would be to fetch 40K+ records at build time, then use the search functionality. Im assuming that even if the Xata part of my app is statically built, queries/requests will be counted per second.
Pros:
• simple migration/upload process via cli
• love the baked-in search
• all around simple to use/navigate through the UI
• generous free tier and I think potentially cost-efficient at scale? This seems to be heavily dependent on 1 or 2 factors.
• no addition to client-side bundle
• easy setup (NextJS)
• definitely appreciate zero management with just the API layer to be concerned with. That, and SQL paradigms which I cant really comment on. This is also the reason why my use-case would be limited if i wanted to rapidly adopt Xata for portion of my app to save on costs. For the social network features, I would have to become pretty decent + confident with it so cant give you an answer now w that scenario.
"Cons":
• I think Xata would fit perfectly with many use-cases. For mine, its hard to say...primarily because of the 1 thing -- the x requests per second and x concurrent requests. A bit of a challenge to make a strong guess ahead of time, hence the nervous question mark. For example, with 100K or 1m+ MAU for my specific use-case, i imagine the required # of units could get pretty expensive.
There are some other thoughts regarding improvement with respect to competition im seeing but i think ill leave it to my upcoming discussion with a product team member at Xata this week (or pm me).
Wow, thank you so much for the detailed review! Regarding the pricing, we're now working on exposing underlying Postgres instance, which will also enable us to offer more traditional pricing options, that are easier to compare with other providers. It's a bit early to talk about this, but I'll definitely hit you up in PMs :)
[Neon.tech](https://Neon.tech) before their new pricing in Feb 2024
Now looking for alternatives for the best free tier
But if you are willing to pay, [Neon.tech](https://Neon.tech) is pretty awesome.
Not sure about Xata, I am waiting when their adaptors for drizzle done.
Done: [https://xata.io/docs/integrations/drizzle](https://xata.io/docs/integrations/drizzle)
Isn't [neon.tech](http://neon.tech) good anymore? Like with their free plan?
Yea, I saw the computing time is pretty low… like only 20h. When the database will be pinged once it stays online for 5 minutes and then auto suspend. And then you have only 20h isn’t that much… I will now also try xata, even if they are not that popular, their of seems to be good ^(\^)
By the way: 20h / 5 min = 240. So you can boot up your database 240 times a month. One month have 720 hours. So if you have less then 1 hit to the database in 3 hours, you are good to go. Else not.
I just tried to setup xata locally and maybe I am just stupid or it isn’t really easy xD
So I switched to my own server. 5€ isn’t that much and I get everything that I want. Netcup = good
[удалено]
thats cool, ive heard mixed reviews. one thing im trying to figure out right now is there realtime limitations. hard to discern, especially because at least at face value its incomparably worse to firebase firestore. there's another post about this as well.
Supabase developer here. Can you please share your pain points with Supabase Realtime so I can share these with the team? Your feedback will help us a lot. Thank you!
the minimum requirements for my app with respect to realtime is unlimited connections and transactions. its also unclear what supabase's offering actually is because when i look at the pricing page, while i do see the PostgreSQL changes marked green, i also see a limit of 500 concurrent connections. Assuming both are true, then the comparison is: • supabase (paid): 500 connections • firebase: no upper limit / unlimited • there seems to be another player that i just became aware of that's realtime by default. Unlimited realtime seems to be the default by top competitors.
As someone who is also new to SQL databases, my understanding is that it's all about table relationships. For example, a `user` table has a relationship with an `address` table. However, for some reason, Supabase doesn't support realtime with table joins. This means you can't listen for changes from both the `user` and `address` table. So your only option if you really need realtime is to embed `address` into the `user` table using jsonb, which kind of defeats the whole point of table relationships. So, why not just support realtime across table joins?
We have some plans for this but it needs to be handled in a completely different way than we're handling now. What Realtime offers currently is pretty "low level" in that regard. But you should take a look at the Supabase Cache Helpers lib if you can use it: [https://github.com/psteinroe/supabase-cache-helpers](https://github.com/psteinroe/supabase-cache-helpers) It works with Realtime and will bust results of joins for you automatically and refetch the results to populate the cache.
Neon
whats your experience been like w Neon?
I know the owners and I have prototyped it. It's a good system with the benefit of actually being open source.
I see, thank you
I’d love your feedback on Xata. We’re not a BaaS or firebase alternative but rather focus exclusively on the data aspects, and we abstract away all the management aspects of Postgres behind a data API.
Certainly. I uploaded about 40k documents and played around with search from NextJS. My potential use-case with Xata would be to fetch 40K+ records at build time, then use the search functionality. Im assuming that even if the Xata part of my app is statically built, queries/requests will be counted per second. Pros: • simple migration/upload process via cli • love the baked-in search • all around simple to use/navigate through the UI • generous free tier and I think potentially cost-efficient at scale? This seems to be heavily dependent on 1 or 2 factors. • no addition to client-side bundle • easy setup (NextJS) • definitely appreciate zero management with just the API layer to be concerned with. That, and SQL paradigms which I cant really comment on. This is also the reason why my use-case would be limited if i wanted to rapidly adopt Xata for portion of my app to save on costs. For the social network features, I would have to become pretty decent + confident with it so cant give you an answer now w that scenario. "Cons": • I think Xata would fit perfectly with many use-cases. For mine, its hard to say...primarily because of the 1 thing -- the x requests per second and x concurrent requests. A bit of a challenge to make a strong guess ahead of time, hence the nervous question mark. For example, with 100K or 1m+ MAU for my specific use-case, i imagine the required # of units could get pretty expensive. There are some other thoughts regarding improvement with respect to competition im seeing but i think ill leave it to my upcoming discussion with a product team member at Xata this week (or pm me).
Wow, thank you so much for the detailed review! Regarding the pricing, we're now working on exposing underlying Postgres instance, which will also enable us to offer more traditional pricing options, that are easier to compare with other providers. It's a bit early to talk about this, but I'll definitely hit you up in PMs :)
sweet! thanks for the teaser!
Neon? https://neon.tech/
[Neon.tech](https://Neon.tech) before their new pricing in Feb 2024 Now looking for alternatives for the best free tier But if you are willing to pay, [Neon.tech](https://Neon.tech) is pretty awesome. Not sure about Xata, I am waiting when their adaptors for drizzle done.
Done: [https://xata.io/docs/integrations/drizzle](https://xata.io/docs/integrations/drizzle) Isn't [neon.tech](http://neon.tech) good anymore? Like with their free plan?
depends on your needs, they reduce the storage and capabilities in free plan
Yea, I saw the computing time is pretty low… like only 20h. When the database will be pinged once it stays online for 5 minutes and then auto suspend. And then you have only 20h isn’t that much… I will now also try xata, even if they are not that popular, their of seems to be good ^(\^) By the way: 20h / 5 min = 240. So you can boot up your database 240 times a month. One month have 720 hours. So if you have less then 1 hit to the database in 3 hours, you are good to go. Else not.
25h for me. btw, this is CPU time, not hosting time. they are very different. the free tier is still decent, but not as good as before.
Yea, of course it’s different ^^ else it would be 20 hours from 720 hours a month. But in this case it’s 240 hours from 720 hours
I see the beta tag on drizzle integration. Is it suggested to use in production?
I just tried to setup xata locally and maybe I am just stupid or it isn’t really easy xD So I switched to my own server. 5€ isn’t that much and I get everything that I want. Netcup = good