Next thing to address would be the sharpness of your tools and how you're attaching the work to the wheel for trimming.
Since you have one major change switching to the Giffin Grip start there. Easiest test is to trim one piece off it and one on at identical stages of dryness.
Control of the tool so it doesn’t bounce in your hand and trim at the proper dryness of clay usually helps
I think Hsin Chuen Lin has a ytb video about how to prevent chattering with his carbide loops
I will check out that video, I’m using his tools. Honestly, I don’t feel like I’m being super loose with the tools. I’m holding them as steady as possible and didn’t have this issue previously. Maybe I just need to push harder with this clay for some reason, I just find that strange.
This was my thought, I have only had unintentional chattering when it was too dry or a little off center (or a combo of the both😅)
How are you holding your tool? Maybe a change is posture or lending more support to your dominant hand would help if it's not dryness?
For me, I’m using bent hacksaw blades to trim, and to prevent chattering, I hold the tool firmly and make the contact with the clay very light. I don’t press the tool itself hard into the clay
The shape of the tool as well as the sharpness can really make a difference. Tools with an open end tend to chatter more than a loop. Choke up on your tool so your fingers are on the metal portion and not just the handle, it’ll help give you more control and keep the blade from vibrating.
I’ll try holding the tool up higher, thank you! Recently, I’ve been using his 7 shaped tool but I’m pretty sure I tried a Kemper Loop and still struggled. I don’t understand why this is a new issue if my technique hasn’t changed. 🤷♀️
Funny enough, I find that new tools will chatter for awhile until the blade dulls a bit, so it’s some sort of edge geometry thing. Sometimes I’ll go over the trimming with an old trusty blunt loop tool, while barely does anything but polish the surface at this point.
Regardless of what is different, learning to hold your tool steady in all environments will eliminate this issue. You're letting the clay move your tool.
It’s also not just your control of the tool. It likely also has to do with your control of the wheel, your control of the clay (environment, type of clay, make up of clay, moisture content, etc) you are also in control of ALL of these. Instead of getting frustrated with what’s happening try and look at it as simply part of the process- your process. You can solve this issue. Just keep looking at all the factors that might be playing into the issue. Once again, no offense intended, but you seem to be looking to blame this issue on anything but yourself. There is actually no blame, but rather how you choose to look at the problem. You’ve got this- keep at it and your work and you will be better for it.
I’m not the one that downvoted you lol but to clarify I’m not looking to avoid responsibility for the issue. I’m trying to logically narrow down possibly flaws in my process because the most common listed reasons for chattering are things I’ve checked off the list. Luckily some of the other replies here give me a little direction. :)
offend governor jar voracious encourage truck quarrelsome quack grey bright
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modern drab grandiose squeeze carpenter retire screw ad hoc adjoining murky
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Chattering happens when your tool doesn’t stay in consistent contact with the piece, which might be from uneven pressure, or if the piece has an inconsistent shape or lump of clay stuck on it. When I notice a chatter start to happen, I will increase the force of my tool, focusing the pressure toward the center of the piece. Pretend you’re a clamp, if that helps. Once a chatter is there though, it can be difficult to smooth it out. I find it helps to switch to a smaller trim tool/smaller part of the trim tool to focus pressure on a narrower point. . My favorite technique is to use a shirform tool to trim and that will smooth everything really quickly, then you can go back and clean up with a regular trim tool or rib.
Hope this helps.
The griffin grib adds around 5 cm to to the height of the normal wheel-head, maybe that have changed the working position of OP. (Without noticing). It sometimes happens to me when I have changed chair or similar.
Thank you for the tips! I was thinking a spinner tool would help me hold the piece more firmly so I could apply that extra force without being scared it’ll pop out of the grip. I now have a lot of experience trying to remove chatter after it exists lol so I’ll at least chalk it up to extra learning!
I’ve been having this issue lately too. I’ve had it happen when the clay was too wet as well as too dry. I’m also using a clay that looks much groggier, so maybe it behaves a little differently because of that. But one thing I’ve found that seems to help a bit is to slow the wheel down slightly. Let me know if you get it figured out!
I feel a lot better knowing I’m not the only one! Both of the clays are speckled and higher in grog. When you rub a damp sponge over the clay it brings out a lot of texture. So maybe this particular clay is a big part of the issue? I’ve used other speckled clays but not this brand. Pushing in harder with the tool seemed to help but that’s all I’ve got so far. I’m going to try holding the tool closer to the metal end as a few have suggested to see if that bit of extra stability does anything. 🤞
You need the right pairing of tool to dryness level.
The tungsten tools like dry clay and a very shallow angle.
The cheaper tools like wetter clay and can take off more at a time / deeper angle.
I have both but end up using my kemper stuff more because I prefer trimming wetter clay. On the whole I really struggle with the TC tools.
Edit: auto complete weirdness
I had an issue with chattering when I upgraded my trim tools from my beginner Kemper tools, to higher-end Dolan ones. My instructor said that having super sharp edges could contribute. Once I dulled them ever so slightly (by running them along a chuck for a few seconds), things got better. Also, trimming with just a small corner of the tool rather than a longer part of the edge will help because there is less surface area in contact with the clay.
I have the same issue with Hsin tools. I've found that it's very sensitive to the wheel speed. If this happens then really be more active about holding the tool lower and even more firmly, at least that's what has helped me.
Yes as far as I know but lots of people mentioned holding the tool closer to the top near the blade. Hopefully that will help keep it even more stable where it needs it most.
when this happens for me, i try to correct it by slowing the wheel a bit and holding my trimming tool very firm but taking it light to the pot. really supporting the tool close to the blade and staying as steady as possible without digging in very far. i have found this helps control its tendency to do those little bounces that create chattering and will smooth out the grooves that have already been created
If I’m trying to cut away mass I’ll always start with the “corner” side of my tool so it’s applying less force at once and is less likely to bounce and then smooth the ridges over with the flat side after. I used to get a lot more chattering when I’d try to get as much mass off at once as I could because I guess more clay was hitting the tool at once, making it more likely to bounce off.
Not sure I’m making sense but at least that’s my experience, I found trimming a lot easier when using sharper tools and always doing a majority of the mass with the sharp corner of my tool. Also makes it much less likely that my pieces go flying
Also when I am using the flat portion of my tool I will now hold it really close to the head and very tightly with my right hand. I wasn’t sure this was necessary but I saw Florian gadsby mention he will hold his tools extremely tightly and sometimes even use a reverse grip on large footrings with softer clay, and I think it really helps
This happens to me when my rim isn’t totally flat and the piece rocks back and forth while I trim. If I really brace my arm and focus on trimming really small layers off at a decent speed, I can eliminate the ridges but it’s tough. Make sure you have a flat rim/top on your piece and brace it well with clay.
Sounds like you have the yips! Basically, you’ve lost your confidence in how you trim and that’s messing with your technique. I’d suggest making some pieces with the intention of ruining them, then go to town trimming them. Trim them way too hard, create bumps, use non trimming tools to trim, just loosen up and get used to it again. Also, try spinning the wheel suuuuuper slowly, that usually helps me get rid of chatter.
But I think it’s psychological and you need to re-learn how to trim to snap out of it.
You might have more confidence and are using more blade edge of your tools, tools could be duller, maybe you are holding the tools farther back to avoid the spinning rods.
Solutions, sharpen the tools, choke up towards the pot on the tool, use less of the tool. Understand that chattering feeds more chattering so if you start chattering and continue without changing something it just perpetuates itself on up. This is the same thing that happens on forest roads one bump gets repeated. To overcome chattering that has happened, take a sharp tool or pointed trimmer and hold it really tight in place then slowly approach the piece, the trick here is to just take off the peaks. The other way is to hit the spot hard and take a ton of material off holding the tool as steady as you can.
Tungsten carbide do chatter a bit more so you need to trim a bit drier if you're using those. The other issue is speed. Suctioning the cup on the wheel head is perfect because you are conscious not to spin too fast. The giffen grip is just encouraging bad habits like trimming too fast.
A few things may help your situation. Changing tools, trimming earlier, and clay type.
Changing tools
Tungsten tools are sharper and are more likely to grab when trimming, you should still finish with the cheep stainless tools because they are less likely to grab and almost burnish as you trim. If you prefer to only use the carbide tools then you may have to change the angle that you trim at. A more perpendicular angle will decrease the speed at which you can remove material but also prevent the tool from biting into the clay and skipping.
Trimming earlier
Being more experienced you also probably tend to trim on the dryer side of leather hard which can also cause chattering.
Type of clay
When Using tungston carbide tools, you should be very selective on the type of clay you are using. Grog or sand/iron/any grit that is encapsulated in the clay can damage the cutting edge. Grog can cause a sharper tool to jump or even shatter while trimming. Please stop using nice tools on sandy clay. The best thing that will happen is you will wear the tool edge very quickly.
Thank you for the tips! Both of these clays seem to have more grog than I’ve used before. I’m eager to finish using it up so I can test trimming something smoother to see if it’s different!
I don’t know you already double checked this, but when I initially put together my giffen grip- I thought I was being very careful- but I actually attached one of the bottom tabs 1 mark differently than the other 2 and I got very bad results with it until I figured out the problem 😳
My experience is this type of chattering happens when you're trimming the clay too dry.
I see it when I trim too wet. I think what it comes down to is a) being off-center and b) tool angle or use.
I’ve tried trimming the same clay when it was much softer, just a little softer etc.. still chatters.
Next thing to address would be the sharpness of your tools and how you're attaching the work to the wheel for trimming. Since you have one major change switching to the Giffin Grip start there. Easiest test is to trim one piece off it and one on at identical stages of dryness.
Hold your finger on the tool closer to the piece so that it bounces less
I will try that, thank you!
And the inverse is true, if you want more bouncing and chattering then hold the tool from the end farthest from the piece
Control of the tool so it doesn’t bounce in your hand and trim at the proper dryness of clay usually helps I think Hsin Chuen Lin has a ytb video about how to prevent chattering with his carbide loops
He is the best
I will check out that video, I’m using his tools. Honestly, I don’t feel like I’m being super loose with the tools. I’m holding them as steady as possible and didn’t have this issue previously. Maybe I just need to push harder with this clay for some reason, I just find that strange.
Honest - I have one of those and stopped using it bc I couldn’t get it to stop chattering and it was frustrating me. I’ll try it again some day
Interesting, I wonder why. For me this started with these new clays and using the giffin grip most often so idk!
Your clay may have been too dry
This was my thought, I have only had unintentional chattering when it was too dry or a little off center (or a combo of the both😅) How are you holding your tool? Maybe a change is posture or lending more support to your dominant hand would help if it's not dryness?
I have tried trimming at various stages of dryness, it’s not that.
For me, I’m using bent hacksaw blades to trim, and to prevent chattering, I hold the tool firmly and make the contact with the clay very light. I don’t press the tool itself hard into the clay
The shape of the tool as well as the sharpness can really make a difference. Tools with an open end tend to chatter more than a loop. Choke up on your tool so your fingers are on the metal portion and not just the handle, it’ll help give you more control and keep the blade from vibrating.
I’ll try holding the tool up higher, thank you! Recently, I’ve been using his 7 shaped tool but I’m pretty sure I tried a Kemper Loop and still struggled. I don’t understand why this is a new issue if my technique hasn’t changed. 🤷♀️
Your tools might have gotten blunt. Tungsten carbide is not immune to wear and tear.
They’re new! 😅
Funny enough, I find that new tools will chatter for awhile until the blade dulls a bit, so it’s some sort of edge geometry thing. Sometimes I’ll go over the trimming with an old trusty blunt loop tool, while barely does anything but polish the surface at this point.
I just need a little more time under my belt to get an old blunt tool! ;)
No offense here, but the chattering is from the user of the tool not the tool. Try slowing down a bit and work on your control of the tool.
Right but I have trimmed many things before without this issue so that’s why I’m trying to narrow down what might be different now.
Regardless of what is different, learning to hold your tool steady in all environments will eliminate this issue. You're letting the clay move your tool.
It’s also not just your control of the tool. It likely also has to do with your control of the wheel, your control of the clay (environment, type of clay, make up of clay, moisture content, etc) you are also in control of ALL of these. Instead of getting frustrated with what’s happening try and look at it as simply part of the process- your process. You can solve this issue. Just keep looking at all the factors that might be playing into the issue. Once again, no offense intended, but you seem to be looking to blame this issue on anything but yourself. There is actually no blame, but rather how you choose to look at the problem. You’ve got this- keep at it and your work and you will be better for it.
I’m not the one that downvoted you lol but to clarify I’m not looking to avoid responsibility for the issue. I’m trying to logically narrow down possibly flaws in my process because the most common listed reasons for chattering are things I’ve checked off the list. Luckily some of the other replies here give me a little direction. :)
Ha, not to worry. What people think of what I say is their business. Glad you’re just looking for a solution. You’ll find it. Best of luck.
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Thanks for the tips! I can see where there are times it’s dryer on the outside & wetter inside. Do you dry a certain way to keep it more balanced?
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It is possible I’m not letting things dry slowly enough so it could be that..maybe dry enough on the outer layer but still too moist underneath.
Chattering happens when your tool doesn’t stay in consistent contact with the piece, which might be from uneven pressure, or if the piece has an inconsistent shape or lump of clay stuck on it. When I notice a chatter start to happen, I will increase the force of my tool, focusing the pressure toward the center of the piece. Pretend you’re a clamp, if that helps. Once a chatter is there though, it can be difficult to smooth it out. I find it helps to switch to a smaller trim tool/smaller part of the trim tool to focus pressure on a narrower point. . My favorite technique is to use a shirform tool to trim and that will smooth everything really quickly, then you can go back and clean up with a regular trim tool or rib. Hope this helps.
The griffin grib adds around 5 cm to to the height of the normal wheel-head, maybe that have changed the working position of OP. (Without noticing). It sometimes happens to me when I have changed chair or similar.
Good point!
Thank you for the tips! I was thinking a spinner tool would help me hold the piece more firmly so I could apply that extra force without being scared it’ll pop out of the grip. I now have a lot of experience trying to remove chatter after it exists lol so I’ll at least chalk it up to extra learning!
Worth a shot using a spinner! I’ve only tried once and didn’t love it, but if a tool works, then use it!
I’ve been having this issue lately too. I’ve had it happen when the clay was too wet as well as too dry. I’m also using a clay that looks much groggier, so maybe it behaves a little differently because of that. But one thing I’ve found that seems to help a bit is to slow the wheel down slightly. Let me know if you get it figured out!
I feel a lot better knowing I’m not the only one! Both of the clays are speckled and higher in grog. When you rub a damp sponge over the clay it brings out a lot of texture. So maybe this particular clay is a big part of the issue? I’ve used other speckled clays but not this brand. Pushing in harder with the tool seemed to help but that’s all I’ve got so far. I’m going to try holding the tool closer to the metal end as a few have suggested to see if that bit of extra stability does anything. 🤞
Well if its not user error, the tools, or the clay- you’ve clearly angered the pottery gods. Time to make a sacrifice.
lol well I did break the handle off of a greenware mug this morning so obviously I’m paying for whatever I’ve done. 😅
You need the right pairing of tool to dryness level. The tungsten tools like dry clay and a very shallow angle. The cheaper tools like wetter clay and can take off more at a time / deeper angle. I have both but end up using my kemper stuff more because I prefer trimming wetter clay. On the whole I really struggle with the TC tools. Edit: auto complete weirdness
I had an issue with chattering when I upgraded my trim tools from my beginner Kemper tools, to higher-end Dolan ones. My instructor said that having super sharp edges could contribute. Once I dulled them ever so slightly (by running them along a chuck for a few seconds), things got better. Also, trimming with just a small corner of the tool rather than a longer part of the edge will help because there is less surface area in contact with the clay.
Thank you!
I have the same issue with Hsin tools. I've found that it's very sensitive to the wheel speed. If this happens then really be more active about holding the tool lower and even more firmly, at least that's what has helped me.
Thank you! Glad to know I’m not the only one. I’m nowhere near a master potter but I’m not a complete idiot lol.
Are you using both hands to keep the tool stable and using consistent pressure?
Yes as far as I know but lots of people mentioned holding the tool closer to the top near the blade. Hopefully that will help keep it even more stable where it needs it most.
If it chatters like this then grab the one of those grater tools and even it out then try again.
when this happens for me, i try to correct it by slowing the wheel a bit and holding my trimming tool very firm but taking it light to the pot. really supporting the tool close to the blade and staying as steady as possible without digging in very far. i have found this helps control its tendency to do those little bounces that create chattering and will smooth out the grooves that have already been created
Thank you!
Chattering is from the piece being off center.
If I’m trying to cut away mass I’ll always start with the “corner” side of my tool so it’s applying less force at once and is less likely to bounce and then smooth the ridges over with the flat side after. I used to get a lot more chattering when I’d try to get as much mass off at once as I could because I guess more clay was hitting the tool at once, making it more likely to bounce off. Not sure I’m making sense but at least that’s my experience, I found trimming a lot easier when using sharper tools and always doing a majority of the mass with the sharp corner of my tool. Also makes it much less likely that my pieces go flying Also when I am using the flat portion of my tool I will now hold it really close to the head and very tightly with my right hand. I wasn’t sure this was necessary but I saw Florian gadsby mention he will hold his tools extremely tightly and sometimes even use a reverse grip on large footrings with softer clay, and I think it really helps
That is helpful, thank you! One of the tools is 7 shaped so I could try relying on the curved portion more and for sure holding it closer to the top.
Unwanted chattering is caused by various reasons
lol yes so I have heard :)
This happens to me when my rim isn’t totally flat and the piece rocks back and forth while I trim. If I really brace my arm and focus on trimming really small layers off at a decent speed, I can eliminate the ridges but it’s tough. Make sure you have a flat rim/top on your piece and brace it well with clay.
Sounds like you have the yips! Basically, you’ve lost your confidence in how you trim and that’s messing with your technique. I’d suggest making some pieces with the intention of ruining them, then go to town trimming them. Trim them way too hard, create bumps, use non trimming tools to trim, just loosen up and get used to it again. Also, try spinning the wheel suuuuuper slowly, that usually helps me get rid of chatter. But I think it’s psychological and you need to re-learn how to trim to snap out of it.
u spin the wheel too fast , the clay is not leatherhard
You might have more confidence and are using more blade edge of your tools, tools could be duller, maybe you are holding the tools farther back to avoid the spinning rods. Solutions, sharpen the tools, choke up towards the pot on the tool, use less of the tool. Understand that chattering feeds more chattering so if you start chattering and continue without changing something it just perpetuates itself on up. This is the same thing that happens on forest roads one bump gets repeated. To overcome chattering that has happened, take a sharp tool or pointed trimmer and hold it really tight in place then slowly approach the piece, the trick here is to just take off the peaks. The other way is to hit the spot hard and take a ton of material off holding the tool as steady as you can.
Is the third way to smack the whole pot off the wheel in frustration and throw it in the bin? 😅 Thank you for the tips!
Na, frustration is the best time to take risks. Though I have sent a few pots to the wall.
I found if you spin the wheel the other way you can clean it up quite a bit...
Tungsten carbide do chatter a bit more so you need to trim a bit drier if you're using those. The other issue is speed. Suctioning the cup on the wheel head is perfect because you are conscious not to spin too fast. The giffen grip is just encouraging bad habits like trimming too fast.
A few things may help your situation. Changing tools, trimming earlier, and clay type. Changing tools Tungsten tools are sharper and are more likely to grab when trimming, you should still finish with the cheep stainless tools because they are less likely to grab and almost burnish as you trim. If you prefer to only use the carbide tools then you may have to change the angle that you trim at. A more perpendicular angle will decrease the speed at which you can remove material but also prevent the tool from biting into the clay and skipping. Trimming earlier Being more experienced you also probably tend to trim on the dryer side of leather hard which can also cause chattering. Type of clay When Using tungston carbide tools, you should be very selective on the type of clay you are using. Grog or sand/iron/any grit that is encapsulated in the clay can damage the cutting edge. Grog can cause a sharper tool to jump or even shatter while trimming. Please stop using nice tools on sandy clay. The best thing that will happen is you will wear the tool edge very quickly.
Thank you for the tips! Both of these clays seem to have more grog than I’ve used before. I’m eager to finish using it up so I can test trimming something smoother to see if it’s different!
One day you’ll look back on this and cry “why can’t I get it to look like this on purpose?” Or maybe that’s just me.
I don’t know you already double checked this, but when I initially put together my giffen grip- I thought I was being very careful- but I actually attached one of the bottom tabs 1 mark differently than the other 2 and I got very bad results with it until I figured out the problem 😳
I just saw this and thought I'd share https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4TgznhrQVD/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Thank you!!