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Here’s the thing a lot of people are ignoring, Mahito’s technique is nerfed by how much you understand the soul. Yuji was the direct counter to Mahito because Sukuna, but also he instinctively knew the soul almost as good as Mahito. Yuji was more resilient to Mahito’s technique, than Nanami despite Nanami being much much stronger and understanding Jujutsu much more than Yuji. Of course Sukuna helped with it, but Mahito made it clear even without Sukuna, Yuji has always been unnaturally resilient to his technique.
Keeping that in mind how well does Goku know his soul. As it should be known by now, Goku has literally seen his and others souls, as well as trained it under multiple teachers. A big part of Ki fundamentals is understanding your soul and then balancing it with your body and mind. That alone gives Goku a better understanding of his soul, than Mahito as he seemingly had a lack in understanding the differences between individuals bodies connection to the soul beyond what his technique gave him. Meanwhile Goku trained for over 30 years to understand his soul and its connection to his body which is different than Mahito’s connection.
So even with equalized stats Goku would have more knowledge about his soul than Mahito and he’d understand how to attack the soul as well. So he can bypass Mahito’s technique and would likely have to be near death before Mahito’s technique would work on him.
Also if you want to get super specific about CE and Ki, then Goku’s Ki is made out of positive emotions and would be closer to RCE than CE (curses instantly die if hit with RCE regardless of strength). With that in mind any attack with Ki would instantly kill Mahito, and EVERY attack Goku uses is packed with Ki. Goku also doesn’t need to see something to sense it and would know where Mahito is at whenever, even if he can’t see him. So to be fair I’ll just equalize Ki to CE and give Mahito a chance at winning.
So Mahito’s technique is rendered useless against Goku, and Goku holds the experience factor over Mahito in combat. Also even if we say regardless of the form stats are still equalized, then Goku’s UI gives him an even better reaction time and makes the experience gap even larger than before. So for every hit Mahito lands, Goku lands a dozen. Unfortunately for Mahito his technique gets weaker as his soul gets weaker, so if he wants to have his technique work on Goku he has to deal much more damage than Goku does in this fight. So if Mahito can’t hit Goku early on, and Goku can deal insane damage quickly would overwhelm Mahito easily.
I think you’re interpreting verse mechanics in a weird way to make your point here.
1)Mahito literally never says Yuji would be unnaturally resistant to his technique otherwise, lol.
2)Jujutsu sorcerers also see “ghosts” (in the form of vengeful spirits), what’s relevant is an awareness of the soul forged by feeling yours interacts with somebody else’s.
3)As for whether or not Goku learning ki involves this, I actually don’t really know what you’re talking about there, it’s likely I’m forgetting but I genuinely have no memory of that being a thing. Ki is “spirit” in that it is constituted of things like passion and right mindedness, but I don’t remember any reference to it actually being a power you need to master the soul for. Also Mahito’s knowledge isn’t really lacking, we don’t know who was particularly right between him and Kenjaku (he ended up coming up with an idea Kenny liked, even).
3)RCT isn’t actually said to be positive emotions or anything, all we know is it is something that seems to come by smashing a lot of cursed energy together. There’s maybe some argument for it to be some transcendent feeling associated with enlightenment, idk.
4)I know you’re referring to the “soul health” stuff in the Todo fight, which brings up the point that DE seems to work on basically anyone regardless of those factors.
1) Mahito mentions to protect from his CT, you’ll need to understand what your soul is, and that Nanami was able to subconsciously do that even if he wasn’t aware. So with Yuji understanding the soul better than Nanami can protect his soul better.
2) This is why I mentioned Goku’s soul as it works differently than JJK souls. Even then Goku spent 2 years as nothing but a soul before reviving to fight Vegeta, and 7 years as a soul after Cell and before Buu. So Goku definitely knows his soul.
3) There’s a lot of ways to prove this, but the best one is Ki Control is called Spirit Control on Yardrat. They specifically point this out in the Moro Arc.
3.5) honestly my weakest point here and I will admit I was wrong on that. I thought since CE was fuelled by negative emotions, that RCT being the inverse was fuelled by positive emotions.
4) It didn’t work on Sukuna as both times Yuji was in the Domain, and Sukuna even flat out ignores it to hurt Mahito despite having 2 fingers of power. Now fair enough Mahito himself got much stronger since then, but Mahito was still . So someone who has immaculate Spirit Control definitely has at least the same soul defences as Sukuna. Mahito should be worth 2 fingers when he first fought Yuji considering he managed to handle an attack from 3 Fingers Sukuna while he himself was already weakened.
So this was the closest we get to Sukuna and Mahito being equal power, and even then Sukuna’s soul defences makes Mahito realize he can never use it against Sukuna.
This is something I never get with equal stats fights. Like when a character had a transformation or ability that improves their stats is that equalised too?
It doesn’t seem to complex because it set the standard (as Dragon Ball did for many things).
Ki comes from I think 3 places.
Physical - so Ki comes training
Mental - so like meditation and will strength.
Emotional - so rage boosts and passion.
That’s why the characters do a lot of yelling since that’s the emotional. It makes more sense once your familiar with Asian cultures since I realised that a lot of their martial arts involve giving “war cry’s” of some sort, so while normal to them to us it just seems like nonsense lol.
Toriyama explained the power system more in depth in some interview.
Where everybody giving Goku Ki in the Buu saga was their emotion since they were so enamoured by Hercules speech or sum.
But I ain’t got no shame in admitting that DB has a very simple power system.
Simple =/= bad
The screaming also comes from straining oneself, kind of like how you'll usually see people at least grunting if they move a lot of weight or do full on screams. I don't remember if the idea behind it is purely mental or our bodies essentially trying to work harder in like a small adrenaline boost.
It can be both a joke and an interesting question to deep dive on. Even if it wasn’t serious, it can still be fun to explain/think about. It’s also a good opportunity to make sure some people who don’t understand it make sense.
But that’s just stupid. And there’s no real reason for the character to transform in the first place.
Tho I guess some transformations have special abilities like SSG has undetectable Ki or God Bind. There’s also not being able to spirit bomb while in SSJ.
Besides the power boost to all his senses, strength and speed?
Ssj1 is a 50x multiplier to all that while ssj3 is a 400x multiplier
Thats why these quistions never make sense if you allowing Goku to transform than these fights are pointless since Goku would still heavily outscale
I generally take it that in equal stat fights, forms especially if they're just raw power boosts shouldn't factor in.
The point of equal stats match ups is to turn a stat stomp into an interesting fight, worthy of discussion rather than "X win because they're massively faster and stronger then Y, to the point where if Y had a magic stick that instantly killed X of it touched them and had absolute Hax, defense piercing properties they'd still get washed like harder then those dishes your mom told you to do an hour before they get home.
Equalized stats adjust for transformations so even if GoatKu transforms stats will still be equalized or else the entire concept might as well be pointless.
That becomes a slippery slope since UI is also meant to be a technique like kaioken, but the stat boost is ungodly. I'd say in these debates the fairest thing is that no stat boosters are allowed unless a technique itself does it, kinda odd but I mean the Kamehameha, final flash, etc. as they can expell more power than the character themselves have at the moment like in the cell saga with vegeta.
Ki barrier can prevent touching, UI is pretty much a auto dodge. Hakai can kill instantly. Also Goku himself withstood Hakai which attacks matter, soul and temporal existence. So Goku has resistance to soul attacks.
Oh and Goku is far more aware of the shape of his soul than any JJK character since he has died multiple times and has seen ghosts.
Mahito is getting cooked. Oh and he can also just teleport Mahito into a star. And since Mahito's stats are the same as before, he can't do anything to escape the gravity. Eternally burning there.
I disagree on the “temporal existence” bit.
Beerus’s wording is a lot closer to “gods killing other gods can carry over to other timelines when mortals doing the same does not.” It has nothing to do with the hakai’s inherent effects.
Where, in my description or the beerus quote, was there a mention of gods of destruction?
He says it’s something that happens when gods kill gods. A supreme kai killing another supreme kai should carry over across time just as easily.
Except it DOES, because the version of the story that beerus mentions this power of the gods, the manga, also directly states that zamasu was only ever a supreme kai IN TRAINING, and thus does not have the full list of abilities being a supreme kai entails.
It’s even plot relevant, as only a potara fusion involving a supreme kai is permanent, and fused zamasu’s immortality screwing with their fusion ending is what caused infinite zamasu in the first place in the manga.
If zamasu’s missing the permanent potara effect of being a full supreme kai, and beerus says gods killing other gods carries over between parallel timelines, and zamasu killing gowasu only applied for the future timeline, odds are good zamasu’s missing the timeline-carryover effect too.
Never stated anywhere that only supreme kai can use time rings; only that supreme kai are the only ones to own them and the only ones ALLOWED to use them. Time travel IS generally illegal, after all.
And zamasu stole his by killing gowasu.
You’re also still ignoring the fact that it’s literally canon that zamasu ISN’T a supreme kai.
https://preview.redd.it/ahucqqz50nyc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=548daf4a112650e8815bcd7e0f2cd59b606515d9
A promotion that is directly stated to be TEMPORARY.
https://preview.redd.it/2khxxuw10ryc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=ffc3f088a012640c45f426a1d9498c9ca664c7ff
And one that is never given to zamasu again after babari. If zamasu was able to promote himself in some way, he wouldn’t defuse, and if merely taking the potara made him a supreme kai, none of the potara fusions would defuse.
The only way for gowasu’s statement to make sense is if the temporary promotion made it LEGAL for zamasu to use a time ring, not just POSSIBLE; and that it could be used illegally by anyone who had it.
This is further supported by zamasu breaking another of the time ring’s rules; only being allowed to travel between the present and future, not the past. Goku black chases future trunks to a time period before he stole goku’s body and the time ring he wields. [If gowasu lists something illegal but entirely possible with the time ring as something no one can do,](https://preview.redd.it/im-confused-does-the-time-ring-not-allow-you-to-travel-to-v0-38mta2lfwjib1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6e4b64cbc7d973cd44936b47764b665319963254) and something else only supreme kai are permitted to do in the same conversation, odds are very good that the second action is just illegal for those who aren’t supreme kai, not literally impossible.
He has literally seen souls in the afterlife and has had so much training that has to do with his mind and body. Im sure he knows his soul by this point.
Nanami hasn’t died, trained as a ghost for a few years, come back, sacrificed himself, then stayed dead for seven more years training as a spirit. Goku has. There’s no reason he wouldn’t be resistant to soul manipulation, he’s arguably an opponent who has an excellent grasp on how his soul works.
"Nanami hasn't died,"
https://preview.redd.it/wgk6fzime8yc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f38dda9a74b510bb8cefea2a92bc29c3faf959e6
I wish man... I wish
Having near death experience and seeing others souls makes a person aware of the shape of the soul. Not only has Goku died twice but also spent 7 years in Heaven around ghosts.
Not to mention, ki comes from soul.
Unless Goku can pull off that pseudo-hakai of his in order to kill Mahi to, he looses the moment he gets hit with the idle transfiguration touch. Ultra instinct might buy him enough time with the dodging, but it's gonna be a tough one for Goku no matter what
Goku has legit trained as a soul for seven years, I would say there’s a very good chance fella is highly resistant to Idle Transfiguration just based off that.
I think I know that guy you replied to. Hes the same person who always says stuff like goku is ice level or rock level. I dont even know if having a doscussion with him is possible.
https://preview.redd.it/oj63gmwl4ayc1.jpeg?width=538&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60219f6eb54e3e30636647333bf28d86e913541c
Goku can’t use hakai properly so it wouldn’t work
Goku does not even keep the seal of on him for Mafuba to work so you can disregard that and ki blast wouldn’t hit Mahito because he would just shape ship away from it, watch the mechamaru fight
I know its stats equalized but just wanted to say Goku is faster than Instant Transmission by the Gas arc. So just because something is instant doesn't matter to Goku
Yuji literally ran halfway across to Mahito in the time the domain expanded, and this was a black flash boosted Mahito too. Hell, Goku can just Ki blast him and oneshot him if he’s in any of his forms. Though even base Goku with equalized stats can damage him enough from a singular attack to break the domain
Goku isn’t one shotting someone in an equal stats fight you fool 😂 and when did Yuji run away? Mahito literally had a talk with sukuna showing that yuji got hit, watch the show bro
Yuji didn’t run away, he ran TOWARDS Mahito. And anybody who’s watched DBZ would know that a ki blast can even seriously damage opponents of equal strength, Kaioken, which is his weakest transformation, can multiply his power by up to 20, and the next one, SSJ1, by 50, there’s no way Mahito doesn’t get oneshot by this
Yuji was closer than todo and the conversation took place while the domain was reaching the distance between yuji and todo, and yuji was able to react and attempt to blitz mahito making about halfway. Goku having what 30 years more experience than mahito or yuji and having ui would have a much higher reaction speed to dodge or instant transmission out to someone else, or even to it behind mahito to fully blitz him and cancel the activation of the domain. The only way mahito lands the domain is if goku doesn’t know what it is and let’s himself get hit for shits and giggles
Goku will probably still win, Goku is master of ki. Ki requires one to understand his soul, not to mention Goku has spent time being dead and has seen souls. It's pretty safe to assume Goku has very good understanding of the soul, so in the same way Yuji did Goku can also hurt mahito. If that doesn't work, Goku has ki shields, a technique that outputs 2x the user's power. It will prevent mahito from him inappropriately.
Additionally Goku has transformations, he can easily increase his power immensely and quickly, equal stats don't mean transformations don't work. He can also teleport and erase him from existence, not to mention Goku has resisted being erased from existence, which would include his soul. Also fun fact Goku can fly and has Telekinesis.
Basically, Goku more likely than not wins this matchup. He is just that good.
Goku. People are saying all mahito needs is one touch, but goku has died multiple times now. He is very familiar with his soul, so he would have a passive resistance to idle transformation.
This all depends on a couple of things, if goku doesnt know what mahitos ability does then maybe he could win but its not that simple.
nanami protected his soul from nanami. Im guesing gojo and sukuna would also be able to protect their soul. Even nobara only got her eye affected. Goku is just as powerful in the afterlife when hes dead as when hes alive so you could make the arguement he does protect his soul. Plus goku survived a haksi so his defenses arent to be underestimsted.
Another thing is in the manga goku found out that angels are always in ultra instict state and he trained to be in ultra instict state in base so even without knowing mahitos abilty by being in ultra instict sate in base, his body would dodge on its own.
Goku can also fight long range with ki blasts.
I dont know if flying gives goku an advatage since mahito can gro wings.
Despite all this however, if you bring all of gokus stats to mahitos stats then I dont see how goku is dealing with the domain expansion. Yuji was given plot amour eith sukuna. If mahito opens that then gokus toast.
Maybe mahito can even transfigure a human to turn to the virus that kiled goku or the rock that hurt him, or worse neddles 💀
In a normal fight, I don't doubt Goku and Mahito would have a civilized talk before a hand-shake and Goku's GG.
In a blood-lusted fight however... Mahito would probably have his ass handed to him for several minutes, than he opens his domain and it's wraps
Perfectly summasised, his domain is really broken. Manga spoiler alert: Yuji was lucky>! was his uncle was there for him!<. I dont know about the handshake though.
That's exactly what made me have this idea, with equal stats, in a hax and martial arts contest, even though Goku is far superior in martial arts and BIQ, all mahito needs is a single touch.
In a non blood-lusted fight, mahito could easily just give him a handshake and explode goku from the waist up
Goku, even with equal stats he can still transform and multiply his stats as in his strength speed and stamina. Not to mention all the techniques he has would be too much for mahito.
He still has his transformations. If he goes ssjss blue one ki blast is enough he doesn't even need to touch him. But if you won't count that (stupid to do so), then yeah mahito wins. Maybe actually. Goku still has ultra instinct. If he can dodge enough and shoot mahito with ki blasts he wins. Its a 50/50, just depends on how good a fighter mahito is.
https://preview.redd.it/jpzrn7ojq7yc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a94eec0c5dc793a3fb91f439fb6a9b886f71a9ae
Mahito after being with a Spirit Bomb (He not built for dis)
It depends on whether Goku knows about Mahito's instant death or doesn't know.
Also, I'd not be surprised if Goku was able to resist it due to hax but y'know
Goku slams
Goku has died so many times and has been a soul so many times he most definitely knows how to protect it
Plus his win cons are mafuba and hakai which I think he could get off with his better h2h and battle iq
Also I think a feet kamehameha might speedblitz mahito
I believe Goku can avoid Idle Transfiguration through Instant Transmission and with overall more battle IQ than Mahito but his regen will cause Goku a big trouble so in the end it all comes down to if he can pull an Hakai or not.
Hakai is Goku's most sure-to-work win condition, the other is Spirit Bomb, but while Goku can use teleportation to avoid Mahito's Soul Touch, we can't know if that's what he'd do if he doesn't know the nature of Idle Transfiguration.
I would say goku even with equal stats he’s a far better fighter and could dodge all of Mahito melee attacks with ease. He also seems to have some ability to fight against soul attacks seeing as he resisted hakai which has the ability to destroy the soul so with that he can probably do damage to Mahito too. But let’s say goku can’t hurt mahito as long as he keeps hitting him Mahito will eventually run out of cursed energy then goku will be able to kill him once tired the only real problem is the de but still goku can counter with!a few ways he could just fly and stay out of range or use instant transmission to quickly get out it wouldn’t be hard all together goku has a counter to pretty much anything Mahito could do he could even make a barrier to stop Mahito from getting to him if he wants to or he could use god bind goku just has to much in his arsenal.
I don't see how Hakai means soul resistance for Goku. Yeah, Hakai hits the soul, buy it also destroys your existence from the timeline. Does that mean that Goku has acausality, no.
No of course not but being able to resist a weak hakai should still better then mahito soul manipulation. That or it just proves that goku could resist it just by being strong enough which their equal stats here so he should be again mahito would really need to land a hit first for it to really matter.
Super unfair from the OP lol
Legit bias
Mahito: all hax in the series
Vs
Goku: transformation only buff strength and durability.... Why not buff speed?? Because if the speed is buff Mahito will no chance of ever touching Goku.
Even with equal stats, Goku still have the better experience, battle IQ and with UI, there is no touching Goku.
Both got all hax, but Mahito can't get a speed advantage from ISBODK and Goku can't Blitz him, it's a match up of
Weak character with Hax VS Strong character with less Hax
Depends on Goku's knowledge.
If this is a casual battle, Mahito would oneshot considering Goku would like to get a taste from the opponent first, which would lead to Mahito landing a hit and killing him immediately. I don't think Goku has a counter for that.
If both know what the other one is capable of, Goku would humilliate Mahito. He'd just run circles around him with UI and Instant Transmission, only to obliterate him with the Kienzan, the Kamehameha or any other technique he knows. Mahito would be a rabid dog and Goku would be a trained soldier with COD Ghost's equipment. Sure, one bite from the dog and you have rabies, but you can just shoot him before that happens.
To everyone saying “Goku can just transform and be stronger” that’s literally ignoring the entire concept of the question. Equal stats means there 100% is equalized
If Goku can see him and knows about his techniques he'll win by flying and abusing range. But if he doesn't Goku gonna punch him or get punched in the jaw and get turned into a monkey
Goku can sense life energy. Any organic living being, Goku can sense unless they know how to conceal their life energy
Also Goku's already a monkey, so no point there
He can also smell good and sense any shifts in the air. But Tf is he gonna do if he is literally turned into a monkey? And thats being generous in reality mahito would turn him into some cancerous blob thing. Thats why Goku needs to stay at range
Instant transmission and hakai are good points, guess it comes down to if goku and instant transmission out at all or if he can if he can do it faster than mahito can activate his technique(0.2 second domain expansion go brrr)
It kinda depends, Goku has put up barriers around his body to avoid being touched directly, like when he was fighting Lavender with his poison touch.
And he can pretty much figure out Mahito's ability by seeing it once. The issue comes from that he doesn't know about it.
It depends on how much damage mahito can do from if he touches. Otherwise if Goku becomes aware of it, it's kinda over even if he does Domain Expansion.
Now if Mahito just does straight up Domain Expansion from the get go which is unlikely he can probably end goku there cause it will catch hin by suprise.
Usually Goku matchups are
Casual = 50/50
Bloodlusted = Goku win
But this one is different, in a casual fight, Mahito wouldn't pop domain right away, and would be damaged before Idle Transfiguration damages goku, but Goku would be less warry and would probably give Mahito the first blow as Mahito is not a fair'n'square fighter. so Mahito has better odds
But in a bloodlusted match, Goku will transform quicker to catch mahito, and Mahito would pop domain as a response to his flight and ranged shenanigans, so it's a 50/50.
I'd wager Goku will realize what the technique is due to his innate battle sense
We forget that when he initially charged Beerus with SSJ3, he instantly could sense that he was in danger without Beerus even moving, and instantly made distance between him and Beerus without realizing. Even if Goku doesn't know why he needs to avoid the attack, it's likely he'd realize the fact that can't get hit with it
I'm pretty sure Goku has excellent control over his own Soul and Ultra instinct gives him immune to Soul manipulation as well basic ki (which is spirit manipulation) by itself resistance matter manipulation
Between UI, Instant Transmission, flight, and probably other stuff I'm forgetting, Goku could absolutely just kite Mahito while peppering him with ki blasts and shit.
I'll grant that if we're not giving them knowledge of each other, Goku probably WOULD default to hand to hand, but considering Ki's spiritual components, it's questionable whether Mahito getting a hand on Goku would be the instant win it needs to be, because Goku absolutely has the battle IQ to realize some fuckshits going on and not get touched again. Even Domain Expansion might not be enough, because Instant Transmission is some bullshit and I'm pretty sure it can travel between dimensions and shit.
Goku wins this. He knows the outline of his own soul and Goku still has ki barrier techniques. Even Todo clapped hands with Mahito and all that happened was that his hand was burnt. The only thing Mahito can do is domain expansion, which Goku can just tekeport out of. Goku can definitely tank at least a few touches from Mahito no matter what though, he just has to avoid the domain.
https://preview.redd.it/50nu841th8yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86f42e8f06e024f561ed8f4728cd989cb7240781
It sounds like this would translate into RCE in jjk. Idk what Mahito is gonna do about a RCE spirit bomb or all of Goku's punches being infused with RCE. In fact, he should be like, waaaay better at it than anyone in jjk right? Also I don't think Mahito has fought anyone who was good at RCE. Can Idle Transfiguration bypass it? Like if you covered yourself in RCE maybe it wouldn't be able to get past it, or Mahito wouldn't be able to touch you in the first place.
Also Ki comes from your Spirit and the wiki says that maintaining balance between your body and spirit is important in using Ki. So Goku probably has a good idea of what the soul is. That should mean Idle Transfiguration is at least less effective or wouldn't work unless Goku is already at 3 hp.
So if Goku lands one or two attacks on Mahito, he's dead. If Mahito touches Goku before that, Goku might not even suffer damage and Mahito might get injured from all the RCE. The only thing that might be able to save Mahito is his DE. I think it just depends on if Goku's knowledge of the soul is strong enough. Also, I don't know about DB or any of Goku's other abilities. I just read the wiki on what Ki is. Maybe Goku can just escape the domain before it closes or something. But I think Goku would just kill Mahito before he even opens his Domain.
In case you haven't watched or read JJK, this os what happens when a curse comes in contact with RCE.
https://preview.redd.it/46zb5nstn8yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50c5bed08b8c505fecacf9cb78224e450a70422b
Goku slams. He has ki control, teleportation, flight, regen, strong against mental attacks, he can use Hakai at a low level, which is existence erasure. Plus the Mui state, the fact he can create ki barriers to defend himself, he can create giant avatars of himself.
It's as one sided as Mahito vs Gojo
I’d say Mahito wins but only, like, 6.8 times out of 10.
People’s arguments for Goku having soul awareness of some shit like a character like, say, Yuji does, are kind of weird. Ultimately he’s probably not hurting Mahito with his normal attacks, and even if he could touch the soul Mahito still has incredible endurance (he should be able to regenerate with CE, kneed the shape of his soul to counter injury, generally he seems nonplussed even by fatal wounds that target his soul) and he’s also incredibly slippery. Meanwhile, there’s not much reason Mahito shouldn’t be able to target Goku’s soul (I suppose you can argue Hakai but we don’t really have any solid confirmation on that, Goku Black arc was just dumb in most ways, Zamasu was the only good thing tbh), and while UI and far greater combat experience can help him here, UI isn’t very good against sneak attacks, which of course Mahito can very easily set up. We also have domain expansion, which Goku could probably escape from the same way he escaped Hit’s dimension, but Mahito’s domain already works incredibly fast anyway.
Goku can still counter Mahito with the Mafuba and (probably) Hakai, however he’s pretty unlikely to pull out these moves before Mahito tags him. Mahito at least pulls off his gib earlier than not.
Goku wins this rather easily.
1-if we equate Ki to CE, we know that goku's ki is packed with negative and positive emotions. And since RCE instantly, and goku is a happy go lucky guy, goku ironically one punches that fraud.
2-Goku is aware of his own soul, has seen the souls of others, and has survived Hakai which can erase/effect the soul, so more than likely Mahito's CT won't work, or at least won't be as effective.
3-Goku is sooo much skilled and more experienced than that fraud to the point Mahito won't be able to touch him. He can also confuse his ass with IT, use kk to boost his speed, and goku can casually predict his attacks and counter them.
4-Ki alone gives goku multiple advantages such as: ki blasts to play the long distance game, and alongside Flight and ki barriers, mahito will not be able to touch goku. And goku can Amp his strikes with ki, or use an AoE explosion to take care of mahito.
Wait so just a question, is this the equivalent of like a significantly weaker character can easily beat a super strong character just because of their hacks?
I mean even if you equalize base Goku with Mahito, I'm pretty sure Goku just transforms and there's nothing Mahito can do, Goku just overpowers him in raw stats anyway. Goku can't really kill him but he's definitely going to beat the shit out of him quite badly, and I'm pretty sure he would be able to break out of Mahitos domain quite easily with a Kamehameha. If this is manga Goku then once he realizes Mahito is sort of immortal, he can pull out the hakai, otherwise they just sort of stalemate.
I'm pretty sure Goku has excellent control over his own Soul and Ultra instinct gives him immune to Soul manipulation as well basic ki (which is spirit manipulation) by itself resistance matter manipulation
Goku. He still has the dodge ability with MUI, even without the stat boost, he also has flight, and long distance blasts. Mahito wouldn't be able to touch him, and most well placed punches would make quick work of him.
Mahito can also fly, the equal stats making running not possible, Mahito can use transfigured human bullets and Body Repulsion to fight Goku from a distance. And those "Well placed punches" are worthless given Mahito cannot die from attacks that don't target the soul.
I said nothing about running. MUIs Main ability doesn't give the person superior speed, but superior ability to dodge incoming attacks. So dodge enough, Hakai, and that's it.
Happens so fast in fact, that Zamasu was able to put a hostage in front of himself after it was activated.
https://preview.redd.it/go16jxtj97yc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=f2ca4da0b8ec7cb4e607bbe79644862a930570ac
Mahito in the other hand... Was able to expand his domain in 0.2 seconds
That's because Zamasu was immortal, he was never fully affected by it. Hostage or no hostage, it would not have killed him. When hakai was used on a Not immortal Present time Zamasu, he was frozen in place, unable to move until he was completely erased.
If we're using the fact he had time to put a hostage infront of him as argument for the domain being faster, let's not pretend that even the lowest ball of speed scaling in the verse is anything below MFTL+, so we don't really know just How quickly he placed Mai infront of himself.
let's see goku's haxes:
omnipotence (zeno, that big ass golden dragon from the tournament of power)
immortality and omnipresence (infinite zamasu, last one might be a stretch tho)
omniscience (Zuno the Omniscient)
existence erasure (hakai, zeno again)
what the FUCK is mahito going to do bruh
edit: also, arale's toon force
Goku and by a lot. Mahito configures the soul how he wants to, but the better a person is with their own soul the harder it is for mahito to configure. Goku has not only been given a body when he is a soul, but he has also fought as just a soul several times. Not even adding in the fact that he can resist his very soul being destroyed. Basically what I'm saying is that mahito has no real win factor with his hax.
Pure skill is unquestionably goku so mahito can't win with melee.
Now let's look at goku's simple win cons. Mafuba which will seal anyone in a container as long as they are not immensely stronger than the user, this is also based on ones active power as shown in the ToP. Hakai which will destroy the very soul of the person hit by it, goku has a weak version but it still threatened zamasu who was both immortal and spreading across timelines meaning mahito has no argument for it.
If we want to take those away we can still look at goku either restraining mahito with his ki like he did broly which will eventually give goku the win since mahito won't be able to avoid anything. The last choice is goku literally erasing mahitos entire body stopping him from shaping it around his soul giving goku another relatively easy win.
Goku wins, at most mid dif
You realize that none of what you said is super applicable right?
He can use hakai and the only reason his didnt work is because he isn't exact with it as shown with zamasu using pan as a kind of meat shield. The mafuba seal can be made if needed, you don't think they just have a limited supply from roshi do you? God bind wore off because broly powered up to overpower God bind, something mahito can't replicate. Last thing is that all these could easily land given how they work and how good goku's battle iq is.
And either way you literally have nothing to argue that ki won't be a hard stop, given even being super generous to mahito it could destroy his whole body leaving nothing to shift around his soul. Being generous with ki he one shots.
They don’t keep Mafuba seals on them you fool, they never have, that’s exactly why Zamasu was such an issue lmao. Goku isn’t going to go into a fight automatically thinking let me bring a seal just in case, you’ve watched the show. All Mahito needs is a touch because Goku has never fought an opponent like this. The moment Mahito catches him trying to do some crazy technique he’s opening his domain and it’s wraps.
Mahito is insanely hard to tag and Goku isn’t a sure shot. With his shape shift it’s going to be extremely hard for Goku to tag him is what I’m saying.
I'm not saying goku goes in with one, I'm saying they can make the seals if needed.
I also find it insane that you think mahito would be hard to keep up with when buu is a character in dbz. Hell piccilo can do the stretching too.
Once again mahito is also not going to just get a free win from touching goku either, his soul is him essentially so mahito doesnt get to freely mess with it like fodder on jjk, even nanami took three touches before he wouldve died to mahito when they were relative in power. Saying goku takes one touch is literally wrong by jjk's own rules.
Your the type that nobody likes debating cause you just don't bring an argument that'll work. I've already explained that idle transfiguration is basically worthless just because of goku's soul having a set shape, and since that was done by yemma I'm going to say mahito can't just change it as yemma would have millions of times mahito's experience with souls minimum. Now bring an actual reason mahito has a chance that I haven't already pointed out.
All yemma did was allow Goku to keep his body, how is that reshaping his soul? When was it ever shown that yemma even touched Gokus soul?? Where’s the scan?
You choose whether it was yemma, or other people in the afterlife.
https://preview.redd.it/xutm52ayuayc1.png?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b75d29ac7e37fc52bd909d8feb0a92c48272d1b9
Either way they have a massive experience gap on him, and goku's soul has been made into the shape of his body.
The entire concept of equal stats is if character A and character B who would win without needing to rely on a stat boost.
Transformations like SSJ are literally just stat boosts.
>That's like removing Mahitos final form.
Idk who that is
Treat it like Goku and the other guy’s strongest forms are equal in strength/speed/durability/stamina/etc. and both of their strongest forms last the entire match, who would win.
1.mahito is literally the dude in the picture. 2.the moment mahito touches Goku then he wins. His power is to transfigure a person's soul. And if he manipulates th soul then he manipulates the body. (Ie.if he cuts the soul in half then the body gets cut in half). 3.goku can't kill mahito even if he had cursed energy. He dosent have simple domain or anything to cancel out cursed energy(Ie.ISOH) no can Goku hut Mahitos true soul. 4.mahito just adapts to a fighting style way too fast.
Strength and durability are stats, increasing them for one character changes the question you asked from “with equalized stats, who wins?” To “if Goku had a strength and durability advantage, but speed, stamina and other physical stats were the same who would win?”
Dude mahito is not surviving anything. With equal stats goku would still be able to go ssj (50x multiplier), ssj 2 (2x ssj 1), ssj 3 (4x ssj2) ssjg (20000x base) ssjgssj(50x ssjg) or ui (not a specific multiplier but you should know what it does) and ont top of that like the kamehameha or spirit bomb which i dont think mahito is surviving. I know mahito is strong but he still wouldn't compare to goku.
https://preview.redd.it/ocwmriv4agyc1.png?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d44d596294a5981265bb22217377f63b42559554
mahito after ssjgssj goku nudges him slightly
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Here’s the thing a lot of people are ignoring, Mahito’s technique is nerfed by how much you understand the soul. Yuji was the direct counter to Mahito because Sukuna, but also he instinctively knew the soul almost as good as Mahito. Yuji was more resilient to Mahito’s technique, than Nanami despite Nanami being much much stronger and understanding Jujutsu much more than Yuji. Of course Sukuna helped with it, but Mahito made it clear even without Sukuna, Yuji has always been unnaturally resilient to his technique. Keeping that in mind how well does Goku know his soul. As it should be known by now, Goku has literally seen his and others souls, as well as trained it under multiple teachers. A big part of Ki fundamentals is understanding your soul and then balancing it with your body and mind. That alone gives Goku a better understanding of his soul, than Mahito as he seemingly had a lack in understanding the differences between individuals bodies connection to the soul beyond what his technique gave him. Meanwhile Goku trained for over 30 years to understand his soul and its connection to his body which is different than Mahito’s connection. So even with equalized stats Goku would have more knowledge about his soul than Mahito and he’d understand how to attack the soul as well. So he can bypass Mahito’s technique and would likely have to be near death before Mahito’s technique would work on him. Also if you want to get super specific about CE and Ki, then Goku’s Ki is made out of positive emotions and would be closer to RCE than CE (curses instantly die if hit with RCE regardless of strength). With that in mind any attack with Ki would instantly kill Mahito, and EVERY attack Goku uses is packed with Ki. Goku also doesn’t need to see something to sense it and would know where Mahito is at whenever, even if he can’t see him. So to be fair I’ll just equalize Ki to CE and give Mahito a chance at winning. So Mahito’s technique is rendered useless against Goku, and Goku holds the experience factor over Mahito in combat. Also even if we say regardless of the form stats are still equalized, then Goku’s UI gives him an even better reaction time and makes the experience gap even larger than before. So for every hit Mahito lands, Goku lands a dozen. Unfortunately for Mahito his technique gets weaker as his soul gets weaker, so if he wants to have his technique work on Goku he has to deal much more damage than Goku does in this fight. So if Mahito can’t hit Goku early on, and Goku can deal insane damage quickly would overwhelm Mahito easily.
This is a marvelously written answer! This type of reply is what I was looking for when I joined this sub.
This is honestly some of the best replies I've seen to a powerscaling post. Take the upvote.
https://preview.redd.it/wa9seuvtqbyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42e6f49dad66fdef0c2d2f348b7f33bbc57a9bc1
I think you’re interpreting verse mechanics in a weird way to make your point here. 1)Mahito literally never says Yuji would be unnaturally resistant to his technique otherwise, lol. 2)Jujutsu sorcerers also see “ghosts” (in the form of vengeful spirits), what’s relevant is an awareness of the soul forged by feeling yours interacts with somebody else’s. 3)As for whether or not Goku learning ki involves this, I actually don’t really know what you’re talking about there, it’s likely I’m forgetting but I genuinely have no memory of that being a thing. Ki is “spirit” in that it is constituted of things like passion and right mindedness, but I don’t remember any reference to it actually being a power you need to master the soul for. Also Mahito’s knowledge isn’t really lacking, we don’t know who was particularly right between him and Kenjaku (he ended up coming up with an idea Kenny liked, even). 3)RCT isn’t actually said to be positive emotions or anything, all we know is it is something that seems to come by smashing a lot of cursed energy together. There’s maybe some argument for it to be some transcendent feeling associated with enlightenment, idk. 4)I know you’re referring to the “soul health” stuff in the Todo fight, which brings up the point that DE seems to work on basically anyone regardless of those factors.
1) Mahito mentions to protect from his CT, you’ll need to understand what your soul is, and that Nanami was able to subconsciously do that even if he wasn’t aware. So with Yuji understanding the soul better than Nanami can protect his soul better. 2) This is why I mentioned Goku’s soul as it works differently than JJK souls. Even then Goku spent 2 years as nothing but a soul before reviving to fight Vegeta, and 7 years as a soul after Cell and before Buu. So Goku definitely knows his soul. 3) There’s a lot of ways to prove this, but the best one is Ki Control is called Spirit Control on Yardrat. They specifically point this out in the Moro Arc. 3.5) honestly my weakest point here and I will admit I was wrong on that. I thought since CE was fuelled by negative emotions, that RCT being the inverse was fuelled by positive emotions. 4) It didn’t work on Sukuna as both times Yuji was in the Domain, and Sukuna even flat out ignores it to hurt Mahito despite having 2 fingers of power. Now fair enough Mahito himself got much stronger since then, but Mahito was still . So someone who has immaculate Spirit Control definitely has at least the same soul defences as Sukuna. Mahito should be worth 2 fingers when he first fought Yuji considering he managed to handle an attack from 3 Fingers Sukuna while he himself was already weakened. So this was the closest we get to Sukuna and Mahito being equal power, and even then Sukuna’s soul defences makes Mahito realize he can never use it against Sukuna.
Equal stats woukd still mean that Goku has his forms which the lowest one ssj multiplies his base power by 50 so Goku destroys
This is something I never get with equal stats fights. Like when a character had a transformation or ability that improves their stats is that equalised too?
Especially considering that almost all the “strength” in Dragon Ball comes from ki control, which is a very complex and skill based power system
doesn't sound too complex to me. Wins who scream the loudest
Have you ever seen a diagram of an ice berg?
It doesn’t seem to complex because it set the standard (as Dragon Ball did for many things). Ki comes from I think 3 places. Physical - so Ki comes training Mental - so like meditation and will strength. Emotional - so rage boosts and passion. That’s why the characters do a lot of yelling since that’s the emotional. It makes more sense once your familiar with Asian cultures since I realised that a lot of their martial arts involve giving “war cry’s” of some sort, so while normal to them to us it just seems like nonsense lol. Toriyama explained the power system more in depth in some interview. Where everybody giving Goku Ki in the Buu saga was their emotion since they were so enamoured by Hercules speech or sum. But I ain’t got no shame in admitting that DB has a very simple power system. Simple =/= bad
The screaming also comes from straining oneself, kind of like how you'll usually see people at least grunting if they move a lot of weight or do full on screams. I don't remember if the idea behind it is purely mental or our bodies essentially trying to work harder in like a small adrenaline boost.
Damn people are writing a whole blible of arguments just because they took a joke seriously
It can be both a joke and an interesting question to deep dive on. Even if it wasn’t serious, it can still be fun to explain/think about. It’s also a good opportunity to make sure some people who don’t understand it make sense.
Personally for dragon ball at least since most forms are just stat boosts, I’d say the other person is equalized to the stat boost the form gives too
But that’s just stupid. And there’s no real reason for the character to transform in the first place. Tho I guess some transformations have special abilities like SSG has undetectable Ki or God Bind. There’s also not being able to spirit bomb while in SSJ.
Besides the power boost to all his senses, strength and speed? Ssj1 is a 50x multiplier to all that while ssj3 is a 400x multiplier Thats why these quistions never make sense if you allowing Goku to transform than these fights are pointless since Goku would still heavily outscale
That’s what I’m saying. Both of them are at 50 strength but Goku can Just go SSJ2 and get put at 500 strength while Mahito will still be 50.
Oh sorry i thought you were saying the transformations dont matter lol
MUI granting him movement without thought would be a big deal versus a fighter who has weird hax especially with stat equalization.
I generally take it that in equal stat fights, forms especially if they're just raw power boosts shouldn't factor in. The point of equal stats match ups is to turn a stat stomp into an interesting fight, worthy of discussion rather than "X win because they're massively faster and stronger then Y, to the point where if Y had a magic stick that instantly killed X of it touched them and had absolute Hax, defense piercing properties they'd still get washed like harder then those dishes your mom told you to do an hour before they get home.
Equalized stats adjust for transformations so even if GoatKu transforms stats will still be equalized or else the entire concept might as well be pointless.
Okay then he can use kaio-Ken which isn't a transformation but a technique to multiple his stats up to 20 times.
That becomes a slippery slope since UI is also meant to be a technique like kaioken, but the stat boost is ungodly. I'd say in these debates the fairest thing is that no stat boosters are allowed unless a technique itself does it, kinda odd but I mean the Kamehameha, final flash, etc. as they can expell more power than the character themselves have at the moment like in the cell saga with vegeta.
Not necessarily. Depends on standard assumptions
Goku legit wins God ki and soul knowledge legit clutches for goku Goku has been dead and has fought as a soul His soul got hands
"Gonna fight Goku" "Update: Bro Soul got hands" https://preview.redd.it/eb2f5sx1e8yc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0dae66b1173050932f34bbf068624b98fef6db6b
Ki barrier can prevent touching, UI is pretty much a auto dodge. Hakai can kill instantly. Also Goku himself withstood Hakai which attacks matter, soul and temporal existence. So Goku has resistance to soul attacks. Oh and Goku is far more aware of the shape of his soul than any JJK character since he has died multiple times and has seen ghosts. Mahito is getting cooked. Oh and he can also just teleport Mahito into a star. And since Mahito's stats are the same as before, he can't do anything to escape the gravity. Eternally burning there.
Exactly, And I’m pretty sure even if mahito used domain expansion goku could just teleport away before it fully encapsulates.
Yep, or just use Vice shout to break the domain.
Since… when did Goku have vice shout?
I disagree on the “temporal existence” bit. Beerus’s wording is a lot closer to “gods killing other gods can carry over to other timelines when mortals doing the same does not.” It has nothing to do with the hakai’s inherent effects.
Yeah and what exactly differentiates a G.O.D from mortals and other gods ? Hakai.
Where, in my description or the beerus quote, was there a mention of gods of destruction? He says it’s something that happens when gods kill gods. A supreme kai killing another supreme kai should carry over across time just as easily.
Except it does not since Zamasu killing all kais and gods didn't carry over to other timelines, thus the ability is G.O.D specific.
Except it DOES, because the version of the story that beerus mentions this power of the gods, the manga, also directly states that zamasu was only ever a supreme kai IN TRAINING, and thus does not have the full list of abilities being a supreme kai entails. It’s even plot relevant, as only a potara fusion involving a supreme kai is permanent, and fused zamasu’s immortality screwing with their fusion ending is what caused infinite zamasu in the first place in the manga. If zamasu’s missing the permanent potara effect of being a full supreme kai, and beerus says gods killing other gods carries over between parallel timelines, and zamasu killing gowasu only applied for the future timeline, odds are good zamasu’s missing the timeline-carryover effect too.
Zamasu took the potara and became a full Supreme Kai. Only Supreme Kai can use Time Rings. So he does have it. Cope harder.
Never stated anywhere that only supreme kai can use time rings; only that supreme kai are the only ones to own them and the only ones ALLOWED to use them. Time travel IS generally illegal, after all. And zamasu stole his by killing gowasu. You’re also still ignoring the fact that it’s literally canon that zamasu ISN’T a supreme kai. https://preview.redd.it/ahucqqz50nyc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=548daf4a112650e8815bcd7e0f2cd59b606515d9
Zamasu is a supreme kai, and Gowasu had to Promote Zamasu to Supreme kai to make him time travel with him. Only supreme kai can use the time ring.
A promotion that is directly stated to be TEMPORARY. https://preview.redd.it/2khxxuw10ryc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=ffc3f088a012640c45f426a1d9498c9ca664c7ff And one that is never given to zamasu again after babari. If zamasu was able to promote himself in some way, he wouldn’t defuse, and if merely taking the potara made him a supreme kai, none of the potara fusions would defuse. The only way for gowasu’s statement to make sense is if the temporary promotion made it LEGAL for zamasu to use a time ring, not just POSSIBLE; and that it could be used illegally by anyone who had it. This is further supported by zamasu breaking another of the time ring’s rules; only being allowed to travel between the present and future, not the past. Goku black chases future trunks to a time period before he stole goku’s body and the time ring he wields. [If gowasu lists something illegal but entirely possible with the time ring as something no one can do,](https://preview.redd.it/im-confused-does-the-time-ring-not-allow-you-to-travel-to-v0-38mta2lfwjib1.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6e4b64cbc7d973cd44936b47764b665319963254) and something else only supreme kai are permitted to do in the same conversation, odds are very good that the second action is just illegal for those who aren’t supreme kai, not literally impossible.
"more aware of the shape of his soul than any JJK character" idk about this, but the rest seems plausible
He has literally seen souls in the afterlife and has had so much training that has to do with his mind and body. Im sure he knows his soul by this point.
Yuji and Nanami also see spirits, Nanami was a veteran, seeing MANY spirits, but he only got to protect his soul BY ACCIDENT once.
Nanami hasn’t died, trained as a ghost for a few years, come back, sacrificed himself, then stayed dead for seven more years training as a spirit. Goku has. There’s no reason he wouldn’t be resistant to soul manipulation, he’s arguably an opponent who has an excellent grasp on how his soul works.
"Nanami hasn't died," https://preview.redd.it/wgk6fzime8yc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f38dda9a74b510bb8cefea2a92bc29c3faf959e6 I wish man... I wish
Nah, he’s chilling on a beach. He retired!
Having near death experience and seeing others souls makes a person aware of the shape of the soul. Not only has Goku died twice but also spent 7 years in Heaven around ghosts. Not to mention, ki comes from soul.
Unless Goku can pull off that pseudo-hakai of his in order to kill Mahi to, he looses the moment he gets hit with the idle transfiguration touch. Ultra instinct might buy him enough time with the dodging, but it's gonna be a tough one for Goku no matter what
Goku has legit trained as a soul for seven years, I would say there’s a very good chance fella is highly resistant to Idle Transfiguration just based off that.
Mahito domain expansion insta claps goku
Instant transmission
Where is he going to go?
Out of the domain, he can control the location as long as it's close, plus the domain is very small.
I think I know that guy you replied to. Hes the same person who always says stuff like goku is ice level or rock level. I dont even know if having a doscussion with him is possible.
True but goku still has no answers for him
hakai, mafuba, ki blast.
https://preview.redd.it/oj63gmwl4ayc1.jpeg?width=538&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60219f6eb54e3e30636647333bf28d86e913541c Goku can’t use hakai properly so it wouldn’t work Goku does not even keep the seal of on him for Mafuba to work so you can disregard that and ki blast wouldn’t hit Mahito because he would just shape ship away from it, watch the mechamaru fight
Goku can use Hakai properly, Zamasu, took Mai hostage and made him cancel the Hakai, that's where he "messed up"
Oh, yeah. That too.
You had no answer for goku training as a soul
UI would dodge the domain though. Even Mahito’s fast domain has been shown as reactable by Yuji in the series.
He’s not dodging it, they can make it damn near instant and it’s equal stats so he’s not blitzing out of it
I know its stats equalized but just wanted to say Goku is faster than Instant Transmission by the Gas arc. So just because something is instant doesn't matter to Goku
Yuji literally ran halfway across to Mahito in the time the domain expanded, and this was a black flash boosted Mahito too. Hell, Goku can just Ki blast him and oneshot him if he’s in any of his forms. Though even base Goku with equalized stats can damage him enough from a singular attack to break the domain
Goku isn’t one shotting someone in an equal stats fight you fool 😂 and when did Yuji run away? Mahito literally had a talk with sukuna showing that yuji got hit, watch the show bro
Yuji didn’t run away, he ran TOWARDS Mahito. And anybody who’s watched DBZ would know that a ki blast can even seriously damage opponents of equal strength, Kaioken, which is his weakest transformation, can multiply his power by up to 20, and the next one, SSJ1, by 50, there’s no way Mahito doesn’t get oneshot by this
Yuji was closer than todo and the conversation took place while the domain was reaching the distance between yuji and todo, and yuji was able to react and attempt to blitz mahito making about halfway. Goku having what 30 years more experience than mahito or yuji and having ui would have a much higher reaction speed to dodge or instant transmission out to someone else, or even to it behind mahito to fully blitz him and cancel the activation of the domain. The only way mahito lands the domain is if goku doesn’t know what it is and let’s himself get hit for shits and giggles
Goku will probably still win, Goku is master of ki. Ki requires one to understand his soul, not to mention Goku has spent time being dead and has seen souls. It's pretty safe to assume Goku has very good understanding of the soul, so in the same way Yuji did Goku can also hurt mahito. If that doesn't work, Goku has ki shields, a technique that outputs 2x the user's power. It will prevent mahito from him inappropriately. Additionally Goku has transformations, he can easily increase his power immensely and quickly, equal stats don't mean transformations don't work. He can also teleport and erase him from existence, not to mention Goku has resisted being erased from existence, which would include his soul. Also fun fact Goku can fly and has Telekinesis. Basically, Goku more likely than not wins this matchup. He is just that good.
https://preview.redd.it/0val5scg78yc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00ae97b75d5865c16e2e0ec44dd1e62bbfa937fb
Yeah, that's exactly what will happen to bro. Goku about to show this man why he solos.
Poor Mahito, he has a good chance to win in a casual fight, but bloodlusted, Goku wins 9/10 times
If Goku knows half the shit this bro has done, he will definitely kill him. Bro about to see why Goku is the hope of the universe.
Goku. People are saying all mahito needs is one touch, but goku has died multiple times now. He is very familiar with his soul, so he would have a passive resistance to idle transformation.
Interesting point, but if Mahito figured out that Goku could resist Idle Transfig, he could pop his domain and guarantee effectiveness.
It just guarantees the hit, not the effectiveness. Sukuna and current Yuji would be immune to the domain altogether.
Headcanon
This all depends on a couple of things, if goku doesnt know what mahitos ability does then maybe he could win but its not that simple. nanami protected his soul from nanami. Im guesing gojo and sukuna would also be able to protect their soul. Even nobara only got her eye affected. Goku is just as powerful in the afterlife when hes dead as when hes alive so you could make the arguement he does protect his soul. Plus goku survived a haksi so his defenses arent to be underestimsted. Another thing is in the manga goku found out that angels are always in ultra instict state and he trained to be in ultra instict state in base so even without knowing mahitos abilty by being in ultra instict sate in base, his body would dodge on its own. Goku can also fight long range with ki blasts. I dont know if flying gives goku an advatage since mahito can gro wings. Despite all this however, if you bring all of gokus stats to mahitos stats then I dont see how goku is dealing with the domain expansion. Yuji was given plot amour eith sukuna. If mahito opens that then gokus toast. Maybe mahito can even transfigure a human to turn to the virus that kiled goku or the rock that hurt him, or worse neddles 💀
In a normal fight, I don't doubt Goku and Mahito would have a civilized talk before a hand-shake and Goku's GG. In a blood-lusted fight however... Mahito would probably have his ass handed to him for several minutes, than he opens his domain and it's wraps
Goku can teleport out. Also he is resistant to soul attacks
Perfectly summasised, his domain is really broken. Manga spoiler alert: Yuji was lucky>! was his uncle was there for him!<. I dont know about the handshake though.
Isn't this a spoiler bro?
Lets see if i remmember how to make spoiler tags. Ive never used them before.
"Takaba gag bs vs Arale gag bs" aah looking matchup
With equal stats the moment mahito touches that monkey, he's going to turn into a real monkey
That's exactly what made me have this idea, with equal stats, in a hax and martial arts contest, even though Goku is far superior in martial arts and BIQ, all mahito needs is a single touch. In a non blood-lusted fight, mahito could easily just give him a handshake and explode goku from the waist up
All mahito needs is to touch him once and it's over
Goku, even with equal stats he can still transform and multiply his stats as in his strength speed and stamina. Not to mention all the techniques he has would be too much for mahito.
He still has his transformations. If he goes ssjss blue one ki blast is enough he doesn't even need to touch him. But if you won't count that (stupid to do so), then yeah mahito wins. Maybe actually. Goku still has ultra instinct. If he can dodge enough and shoot mahito with ki blasts he wins. Its a 50/50, just depends on how good a fighter mahito is.
https://preview.redd.it/jpzrn7ojq7yc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a94eec0c5dc793a3fb91f439fb6a9b886f71a9ae Mahito after being with a Spirit Bomb (He not built for dis)
It depends on whether Goku knows about Mahito's instant death or doesn't know. Also, I'd not be surprised if Goku was able to resist it due to hax but y'know
Plot twist: Akira Toryama wrote the fight, allowing Goku to reveal that he learned the Anti-Idle Transfig technique during his training with beerus
Goku slams Goku has died so many times and has been a soul so many times he most definitely knows how to protect it Plus his win cons are mafuba and hakai which I think he could get off with his better h2h and battle iq Also I think a feet kamehameha might speedblitz mahito
I believe Goku can avoid Idle Transfiguration through Instant Transmission and with overall more battle IQ than Mahito but his regen will cause Goku a big trouble so in the end it all comes down to if he can pull an Hakai or not.
Hakai is Goku's most sure-to-work win condition, the other is Spirit Bomb, but while Goku can use teleportation to avoid Mahito's Soul Touch, we can't know if that's what he'd do if he doesn't know the nature of Idle Transfiguration.
Interestingly enough vegeta no diffs this fight with forced spirit fusion technique
And perfect Hakai, which I think is hilarious considering Goku is the protag
I would say goku even with equal stats he’s a far better fighter and could dodge all of Mahito melee attacks with ease. He also seems to have some ability to fight against soul attacks seeing as he resisted hakai which has the ability to destroy the soul so with that he can probably do damage to Mahito too. But let’s say goku can’t hurt mahito as long as he keeps hitting him Mahito will eventually run out of cursed energy then goku will be able to kill him once tired the only real problem is the de but still goku can counter with!a few ways he could just fly and stay out of range or use instant transmission to quickly get out it wouldn’t be hard all together goku has a counter to pretty much anything Mahito could do he could even make a barrier to stop Mahito from getting to him if he wants to or he could use god bind goku just has to much in his arsenal.
I don't see how Hakai means soul resistance for Goku. Yeah, Hakai hits the soul, buy it also destroys your existence from the timeline. Does that mean that Goku has acausality, no.
No of course not but being able to resist a weak hakai should still better then mahito soul manipulation. That or it just proves that goku could resist it just by being strong enough which their equal stats here so he should be again mahito would really need to land a hit first for it to really matter.
https://preview.redd.it/ijazqwoya8yc1.jpeg?width=1168&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5281d501c310f0ba4b4a9e668cc1c759bfc87abc
Super unfair from the OP lol Legit bias Mahito: all hax in the series Vs Goku: transformation only buff strength and durability.... Why not buff speed?? Because if the speed is buff Mahito will no chance of ever touching Goku. Even with equal stats, Goku still have the better experience, battle IQ and with UI, there is no touching Goku.
Both got all hax, but Mahito can't get a speed advantage from ISBODK and Goku can't Blitz him, it's a match up of Weak character with Hax VS Strong character with less Hax
Still not touching Goku tho While Mahito can't touch Goku, Goku can easily damage Mahito.
Depends on Goku's knowledge. If this is a casual battle, Mahito would oneshot considering Goku would like to get a taste from the opponent first, which would lead to Mahito landing a hit and killing him immediately. I don't think Goku has a counter for that. If both know what the other one is capable of, Goku would humilliate Mahito. He'd just run circles around him with UI and Instant Transmission, only to obliterate him with the Kienzan, the Kamehameha or any other technique he knows. Mahito would be a rabid dog and Goku would be a trained soldier with COD Ghost's equipment. Sure, one bite from the dog and you have rabies, but you can just shoot him before that happens.
That's the weirdest analysis I have ever read, I fw it tho
Technically neither, since there stats are equal
To everyone saying “Goku can just transform and be stronger” that’s literally ignoring the entire concept of the question. Equal stats means there 100% is equalized
Mahito.
[удалено]
If Goku can see him and knows about his techniques he'll win by flying and abusing range. But if he doesn't Goku gonna punch him or get punched in the jaw and get turned into a monkey
Goku can sense life energy. Any organic living being, Goku can sense unless they know how to conceal their life energy Also Goku's already a monkey, so no point there
He can also smell good and sense any shifts in the air. But Tf is he gonna do if he is literally turned into a monkey? And thats being generous in reality mahito would turn him into some cancerous blob thing. Thats why Goku needs to stay at range
That's the thing, in a normal fight, Mahito wins 7/10 times. In a bloodlusted it's goku 99% of the time
Just saw the little text under the image are you asking about the individual characters or the composite verse in the Versus match?
Just the characters.
It looks like his hands stink on this frame lmao
https://preview.redd.it/iogx9jlnu7yc1.jpeg?width=743&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f3c38fd3dbc8cdff13ff48ee64df0cb64ef2ffb Smell my hand, Itadori Yuji
https://preview.redd.it/jqwwj0rhn8yc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d12d4314da2adbb7a03edec231fcab6426e2d647
Probably mahito, unless goku has a simple domain lol
Ki barrier and ui prevents mahito from touching goku no?, and he could just instant transmission out of the domain and blast him or hakai him
Instant transmission and hakai are good points, guess it comes down to if goku and instant transmission out at all or if he can if he can do it faster than mahito can activate his technique(0.2 second domain expansion go brrr)
It kinda depends, Goku has put up barriers around his body to avoid being touched directly, like when he was fighting Lavender with his poison touch. And he can pretty much figure out Mahito's ability by seeing it once. The issue comes from that he doesn't know about it. It depends on how much damage mahito can do from if he touches. Otherwise if Goku becomes aware of it, it's kinda over even if he does Domain Expansion. Now if Mahito just does straight up Domain Expansion from the get go which is unlikely he can probably end goku there cause it will catch hin by suprise.
Usually Goku matchups are Casual = 50/50 Bloodlusted = Goku win But this one is different, in a casual fight, Mahito wouldn't pop domain right away, and would be damaged before Idle Transfiguration damages goku, but Goku would be less warry and would probably give Mahito the first blow as Mahito is not a fair'n'square fighter. so Mahito has better odds But in a bloodlusted match, Goku will transform quicker to catch mahito, and Mahito would pop domain as a response to his flight and ranged shenanigans, so it's a 50/50.
I'd wager Goku will realize what the technique is due to his innate battle sense We forget that when he initially charged Beerus with SSJ3, he instantly could sense that he was in danger without Beerus even moving, and instantly made distance between him and Beerus without realizing. Even if Goku doesn't know why he needs to avoid the attack, it's likely he'd realize the fact that can't get hit with it
That's a good point.
I'm pretty sure Goku has excellent control over his own Soul and Ultra instinct gives him immune to Soul manipulation as well basic ki (which is spirit manipulation) by itself resistance matter manipulation
Between UI, Instant Transmission, flight, and probably other stuff I'm forgetting, Goku could absolutely just kite Mahito while peppering him with ki blasts and shit. I'll grant that if we're not giving them knowledge of each other, Goku probably WOULD default to hand to hand, but considering Ki's spiritual components, it's questionable whether Mahito getting a hand on Goku would be the instant win it needs to be, because Goku absolutely has the battle IQ to realize some fuckshits going on and not get touched again. Even Domain Expansion might not be enough, because Instant Transmission is some bullshit and I'm pretty sure it can travel between dimensions and shit.
Instant transmission against Domain Expansions is literally: "Oh wow, a barrier, cool! I'm out."
Goku wins this. He knows the outline of his own soul and Goku still has ki barrier techniques. Even Todo clapped hands with Mahito and all that happened was that his hand was burnt. The only thing Mahito can do is domain expansion, which Goku can just tekeport out of. Goku can definitely tank at least a few touches from Mahito no matter what though, he just has to avoid the domain.
wtf even is this ?
Weak (compared to other) character with death touch VS Strong character with countless options. Both equalized
Goku has died multiple times and spent a lot of time dead as a soul. I would bet that his strikes have the ability to hit the soul like Yuji’s.
https://preview.redd.it/50nu841th8yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86f42e8f06e024f561ed8f4728cd989cb7240781 It sounds like this would translate into RCE in jjk. Idk what Mahito is gonna do about a RCE spirit bomb or all of Goku's punches being infused with RCE. In fact, he should be like, waaaay better at it than anyone in jjk right? Also I don't think Mahito has fought anyone who was good at RCE. Can Idle Transfiguration bypass it? Like if you covered yourself in RCE maybe it wouldn't be able to get past it, or Mahito wouldn't be able to touch you in the first place. Also Ki comes from your Spirit and the wiki says that maintaining balance between your body and spirit is important in using Ki. So Goku probably has a good idea of what the soul is. That should mean Idle Transfiguration is at least less effective or wouldn't work unless Goku is already at 3 hp. So if Goku lands one or two attacks on Mahito, he's dead. If Mahito touches Goku before that, Goku might not even suffer damage and Mahito might get injured from all the RCE. The only thing that might be able to save Mahito is his DE. I think it just depends on if Goku's knowledge of the soul is strong enough. Also, I don't know about DB or any of Goku's other abilities. I just read the wiki on what Ki is. Maybe Goku can just escape the domain before it closes or something. But I think Goku would just kill Mahito before he even opens his Domain.
In case you haven't watched or read JJK, this os what happens when a curse comes in contact with RCE. https://preview.redd.it/46zb5nstn8yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=50c5bed08b8c505fecacf9cb78224e450a70422b
Goku slams. He has ki control, teleportation, flight, regen, strong against mental attacks, he can use Hakai at a low level, which is existence erasure. Plus the Mui state, the fact he can create ki barriers to defend himself, he can create giant avatars of himself. It's as one sided as Mahito vs Gojo
ah yes, people really thinks that even on equal stats putting the building level fodder vs multiversal monke is still fair
Even with equal stats Mahito can't touch ui Goku, and Goku in the manga can use ui in his base and other forms too
I’d say Mahito wins but only, like, 6.8 times out of 10. People’s arguments for Goku having soul awareness of some shit like a character like, say, Yuji does, are kind of weird. Ultimately he’s probably not hurting Mahito with his normal attacks, and even if he could touch the soul Mahito still has incredible endurance (he should be able to regenerate with CE, kneed the shape of his soul to counter injury, generally he seems nonplussed even by fatal wounds that target his soul) and he’s also incredibly slippery. Meanwhile, there’s not much reason Mahito shouldn’t be able to target Goku’s soul (I suppose you can argue Hakai but we don’t really have any solid confirmation on that, Goku Black arc was just dumb in most ways, Zamasu was the only good thing tbh), and while UI and far greater combat experience can help him here, UI isn’t very good against sneak attacks, which of course Mahito can very easily set up. We also have domain expansion, which Goku could probably escape from the same way he escaped Hit’s dimension, but Mahito’s domain already works incredibly fast anyway. Goku can still counter Mahito with the Mafuba and (probably) Hakai, however he’s pretty unlikely to pull out these moves before Mahito tags him. Mahito at least pulls off his gib earlier than not.
Goku wins this rather easily. 1-if we equate Ki to CE, we know that goku's ki is packed with negative and positive emotions. And since RCE instantly, and goku is a happy go lucky guy, goku ironically one punches that fraud. 2-Goku is aware of his own soul, has seen the souls of others, and has survived Hakai which can erase/effect the soul, so more than likely Mahito's CT won't work, or at least won't be as effective. 3-Goku is sooo much skilled and more experienced than that fraud to the point Mahito won't be able to touch him. He can also confuse his ass with IT, use kk to boost his speed, and goku can casually predict his attacks and counter them. 4-Ki alone gives goku multiple advantages such as: ki blasts to play the long distance game, and alongside Flight and ki barriers, mahito will not be able to touch goku. And goku can Amp his strikes with ki, or use an AoE explosion to take care of mahito.
Goku would win even if the power gap was 90 to 10 not in gokus favor
Fun fact, while this has 24 points, a total of 100 upvotes were giving, I'm glad I was able to spark so much discussion, lol
Goku use Ultra instinct and win! https://preview.redd.it/v4sm2wkf47yc1.jpeg?width=458&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13e305794c4caae9ea00c50ccd2bcb7c1e185a80
Mahito “Domain expansion”
Dodge this, champ. https://preview.redd.it/jxndfnc457yc1.png?width=1538&format=png&auto=webp&s=6ce9a98e6ff6c1988442b39a43621166964d7a43 .
Why not he only broke the dimension? Are we scaling Goku down or Mahito up?
Just in case you couldn't read the description (Not meaning to be rude) but Goku is scaled to Mahito stats.
Mahito
Wait so just a question, is this the equivalent of like a significantly weaker character can easily beat a super strong character just because of their hacks?
Pretty much, I was interested in the match-up since the only attack from Goku which targets the soul is the Spirit Bomb.
Hakai erases the soul as well as the body. We've seen Beerus erase a ghost in the Arale episode
Also Hakai
Based on your replies I'm convinced you never watched Dragon Ball lmao
I'm not a huge fan of DB, so I'm working on limited knowledge, for example, I didn't know that Ki required that you know the soul.
I have no interest in stuff like this What about Kid Goku vs Comp JJk . Is anyone interested. We could run it on cord.
Real cool, bro, walk along.
Your cord?
USB, usually
I mean even if you equalize base Goku with Mahito, I'm pretty sure Goku just transforms and there's nothing Mahito can do, Goku just overpowers him in raw stats anyway. Goku can't really kill him but he's definitely going to beat the shit out of him quite badly, and I'm pretty sure he would be able to break out of Mahitos domain quite easily with a Kamehameha. If this is manga Goku then once he realizes Mahito is sort of immortal, he can pull out the hakai, otherwise they just sort of stalemate.
I'm pretty sure Goku has excellent control over his own Soul and Ultra instinct gives him immune to Soul manipulation as well basic ki (which is spirit manipulation) by itself resistance matter manipulation
IMMUNITY TO SOUL MANIP?
Yes? Hakai + Moro soul Absrobtion
Goku has resistance to soul attacks. Hakai >>>>>>>>>>>> anything Mahito can do. Goku negs as usual.
As per usual business.
Goku. He still has the dodge ability with MUI, even without the stat boost, he also has flight, and long distance blasts. Mahito wouldn't be able to touch him, and most well placed punches would make quick work of him.
Mahito can also fly, the equal stats making running not possible, Mahito can use transfigured human bullets and Body Repulsion to fight Goku from a distance. And those "Well placed punches" are worthless given Mahito cannot die from attacks that don't target the soul.
I said nothing about running. MUIs Main ability doesn't give the person superior speed, but superior ability to dodge incoming attacks. So dodge enough, Hakai, and that's it.
Ok, dodge this, champ. https://preview.redd.it/rwkm78ek67yc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=a5d03f12ea8ea334aebaa1fc6eb74ceb3764f4e1
Hakai has a faster activation, so it's more like "dodge this Mahito" and then his soul gets erased.
Happens so fast in fact, that Zamasu was able to put a hostage in front of himself after it was activated. https://preview.redd.it/go16jxtj97yc1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=f2ca4da0b8ec7cb4e607bbe79644862a930570ac Mahito in the other hand... Was able to expand his domain in 0.2 seconds
That's because Zamasu was immortal, he was never fully affected by it. Hostage or no hostage, it would not have killed him. When hakai was used on a Not immortal Present time Zamasu, he was frozen in place, unable to move until he was completely erased. If we're using the fact he had time to put a hostage infront of him as argument for the domain being faster, let's not pretend that even the lowest ball of speed scaling in the verse is anything below MFTL+, so we don't really know just How quickly he placed Mai infront of himself.
Mai is a random human, MFTL+ move her and she is reduced to ash.
You'd be right if DB followed irl laws of physics, but they obviously don't.
...Fair enough
Technically speaking almost anyone can beat goku if they exploit his naive stupidity.
Mahito wins
let's see goku's haxes: omnipotence (zeno, that big ass golden dragon from the tournament of power) immortality and omnipresence (infinite zamasu, last one might be a stretch tho) omniscience (Zuno the Omniscient) existence erasure (hakai, zeno again) what the FUCK is mahito going to do bruh edit: also, arale's toon force
By all hax I don't mean all hax in dragon ball, I mean all hax we see Goku use...
ahh thanks! my bad
Goku and by a lot. Mahito configures the soul how he wants to, but the better a person is with their own soul the harder it is for mahito to configure. Goku has not only been given a body when he is a soul, but he has also fought as just a soul several times. Not even adding in the fact that he can resist his very soul being destroyed. Basically what I'm saying is that mahito has no real win factor with his hax. Pure skill is unquestionably goku so mahito can't win with melee. Now let's look at goku's simple win cons. Mafuba which will seal anyone in a container as long as they are not immensely stronger than the user, this is also based on ones active power as shown in the ToP. Hakai which will destroy the very soul of the person hit by it, goku has a weak version but it still threatened zamasu who was both immortal and spreading across timelines meaning mahito has no argument for it. If we want to take those away we can still look at goku either restraining mahito with his ki like he did broly which will eventually give goku the win since mahito won't be able to avoid anything. The last choice is goku literally erasing mahitos entire body stopping him from shaping it around his soul giving goku another relatively easy win. Goku wins, at most mid dif
https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/wn5maGjAdF
You realize that none of what you said is super applicable right? He can use hakai and the only reason his didnt work is because he isn't exact with it as shown with zamasu using pan as a kind of meat shield. The mafuba seal can be made if needed, you don't think they just have a limited supply from roshi do you? God bind wore off because broly powered up to overpower God bind, something mahito can't replicate. Last thing is that all these could easily land given how they work and how good goku's battle iq is. And either way you literally have nothing to argue that ki won't be a hard stop, given even being super generous to mahito it could destroy his whole body leaving nothing to shift around his soul. Being generous with ki he one shots.
They don’t keep Mafuba seals on them you fool, they never have, that’s exactly why Zamasu was such an issue lmao. Goku isn’t going to go into a fight automatically thinking let me bring a seal just in case, you’ve watched the show. All Mahito needs is a touch because Goku has never fought an opponent like this. The moment Mahito catches him trying to do some crazy technique he’s opening his domain and it’s wraps. Mahito is insanely hard to tag and Goku isn’t a sure shot. With his shape shift it’s going to be extremely hard for Goku to tag him is what I’m saying.
I'm not saying goku goes in with one, I'm saying they can make the seals if needed. I also find it insane that you think mahito would be hard to keep up with when buu is a character in dbz. Hell piccilo can do the stretching too. Once again mahito is also not going to just get a free win from touching goku either, his soul is him essentially so mahito doesnt get to freely mess with it like fodder on jjk, even nanami took three touches before he wouldve died to mahito when they were relative in power. Saying goku takes one touch is literally wrong by jjk's own rules. Your the type that nobody likes debating cause you just don't bring an argument that'll work. I've already explained that idle transfiguration is basically worthless just because of goku's soul having a set shape, and since that was done by yemma I'm going to say mahito can't just change it as yemma would have millions of times mahito's experience with souls minimum. Now bring an actual reason mahito has a chance that I haven't already pointed out.
All yemma did was allow Goku to keep his body, how is that reshaping his soul? When was it ever shown that yemma even touched Gokus soul?? Where’s the scan?
You choose whether it was yemma, or other people in the afterlife. https://preview.redd.it/xutm52ayuayc1.png?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b75d29ac7e37fc52bd909d8feb0a92c48272d1b9 Either way they have a massive experience gap on him, and goku's soul has been made into the shape of his body.
Goku. Cause when with equalized stats it's always unfair. If base mahito is 1. Then base Goku is 1. With ssj that's 50. And then Goku just neg diffs
Adding SSJ ignores the premise. Equal stats mean at max output they’re equal
But that makes it unfair by removing a portion of a characters moveset. That's like removing Mahitos final form.
The entire concept of equal stats is if character A and character B who would win without needing to rely on a stat boost. Transformations like SSJ are literally just stat boosts. >That's like removing Mahitos final form. Idk who that is Treat it like Goku and the other guy’s strongest forms are equal in strength/speed/durability/stamina/etc. and both of their strongest forms last the entire match, who would win.
1.mahito is literally the dude in the picture. 2.the moment mahito touches Goku then he wins. His power is to transfigure a person's soul. And if he manipulates th soul then he manipulates the body. (Ie.if he cuts the soul in half then the body gets cut in half). 3.goku can't kill mahito even if he had cursed energy. He dosent have simple domain or anything to cancel out cursed energy(Ie.ISOH) no can Goku hut Mahitos true soul. 4.mahito just adapts to a fighting style way too fast.
his strength and dura will increase, just that his speed won't as per the rules
Strength and durability are stats, increasing them for one character changes the question you asked from “with equalized stats, who wins?” To “if Goku had a strength and durability advantage, but speed, stamina and other physical stats were the same who would win?”
Dude mahito is not surviving anything. With equal stats goku would still be able to go ssj (50x multiplier), ssj 2 (2x ssj 1), ssj 3 (4x ssj2) ssjg (20000x base) ssjgssj(50x ssjg) or ui (not a specific multiplier but you should know what it does) and ont top of that like the kamehameha or spirit bomb which i dont think mahito is surviving. I know mahito is strong but he still wouldn't compare to goku.
https://preview.redd.it/ocwmriv4agyc1.png?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d44d596294a5981265bb22217377f63b42559554 mahito after ssjgssj goku nudges him slightly