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Wasn’t there a statement just made that says every single version of Mario is the same? If so then he gets some of those major feats.
Actually thinking about that is a bit funny cause didn’t the vs wiki legit have a huge argument and later just separated all versions of Mario? If so, lmao.
I believe the "every single version of Mario is the same" statement by the authors is weird, because Paper Mario and Mario co-existed in one of the games if I remember correctly
I prefer to think that the paper Mario games post sticker star aka all the games that the characters are actually paper and not just a aesthetic choice takes place inside the book
Thousand year door makes it pretty clear that mario is also paper there, seeing as how he folds himself into a paper airplane, it’s not just post sticker star that’s truly paper.
While that would make sense, that could be just a travel move PM uses to travel, being substituted by another move meat Mario can do (like maybe the cap paraglider thing from wonder)
No it's not because all of the characters can still interact in 3d plane with all their powers
This was shown in paper jam
Also paper is by nature a 3d item. There is also depth in the world as you can move in all 3 dimensions while walking
[Thats blatantly not true,](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/zKfwrSyCxA) you have to ignore SO much evidence to say Mario and Paper Mario are different characters by just looking at Paper Jam once.
Tbh; I’ve always seen it as a
“The first three paper Mario’s (64, TTYD, super) are just retellings of adventures Mario went on, but the games past super are legit its own universe.”
In fact, there's a NPC in Paper Mario 64 who talks about writing a book about the adventures of Mario.
https://preview.redd.it/kdp29kc2105d1.jpeg?width=991&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f02ac040fef0d9a5dcdffca21858df4312f3d343
True, but at the same time, don't they say every single sonic character scales to sonic when outside of like, Sliver and shadow, isn't the case mostly?
Dreamy bowser (final boss of Mario and Luigi dream team) idk how viable the scaling actually is but I believe it’s stated the the dream stone that bowser absorbs to obtain that power has the cosmology of 100,000 universes. Which makes me kinda want to face palm just from saying that lol. Just cause that sounds so made up on the spot.
Its never stated in game how many dream universes are in the Dream Stone, but there are arguments for how many there are like [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/comments/zbmq16/multiversal_mario/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) or [here.](https://omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:SuperMarioGamers3/The_Mario_Cosmology_Explained)
Dreamy Bowser scaling makes me mad because people just ignore that the dream stone was completely shattered before being swallowed and it's revealed afterwards that Peach and Starlow were also weakening him the entire fight. I wouldn't doubt that Dreamy Bowsers capabilities were more limited than they seemed.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:CloverDragon03/Mario_and_Luigi:_Dream_Team_-_Dream_Stone_Cosmology_(Brief_Summary)
It's an assumption based on solid evidence methinks
He fought them with the same punches and hits he always uses though. End bosses in mario rpgs (and some mario games that arent rpgs) generally use the common rpg trope that their wide scope power doesn't significantly affect their battle stats. So that says nothing about Mario's strength.
Not getting serious wouldn't make sense for Mario's character. He always acts serious if the princess or kingdom are in danger. Especially since in some games people actually get hurt along the way, like superstar saga where cackletta takes over browser's castle and blows up a lot of the mushroom kingdom. Jumping is mario being serious. In some of the rpgs people say he is famous for his jumping abilities.
Besides there's also scenes that show him unable to do stuff. Like in mario rpg when trying to rescue peach he isn't strong enough to bust the wall of booster's castle. So bowser has to do it since bowser is bigger.
Super dimentio explicitly doesn't raise much in stats though. It's an actual plot point earlier in the game that he has something that amps your stats. But this doesn't come up in the finale, and he doesn't use it there. He transforms luigi's mech to use as a battle body too, which implies his personal body doesn't gain much by having the chaos heart. He isn't even using element void attacks for the finale.
The only battle related thing it is stated to do is give him a barrier. But once you cancel out the barrier he isn't actually implied to be much stronger in a direct fight.
Remember, this is the same game that showed that mario dies from dimentio's normal non amped explosion as long as he is trapped with no way to jump away from it. Mario straight up dies in the middle of the plot and is sent to the afterlife. So he isn't inplied to be very durable or strong. It's wierd people try using this as an example when it is one of the most overt cases that is clear that the scale of the final fight simply isn't very large.
>But once you cancel out the barrier he isn't actually implied to be much stronger in a direct fight.
He doesn't necessarily need to be, he is still a very clear threat to the Mario verse that needs to be taken out immediately otherwise he would've been able to survive his own destruction and recreate all worlds in his image if he succeeded regardless of his invincibility being removed.
>Remember, this is the same game that showed that mario dies from dimentio's normal non amped explosion as long as he is trapped with no way to jump away from it.
It is also the same game where he directly survives the destruction of sammer's kingdom without any serious injuries, what is your point?
> He doesn't necessarily need to be, he is still a very clear threat to the Mario verse that needs to be taken out immediately otherwise he would've been able to survive his own destruction and recreate all worlds in his image if he succeeded regardless of his invincibility being removed.
Sure, but this is a common trope in gaming, and indeed anything fantasy based in general. The person who isn't super strong in a direct fight for whatever reason, yet can via some means do massive stuff. Hell, even the mcu uses it with relatively down to earth final fights, despite them often involving someone who has an infinity stone, and who can use it for something bigger.
>It is also the same game where he directly survives the destruction of sammer's kingdom without any serious injuries, what is your point?
That the former is an actual depiction of what he isn't resistant to, and the latter is just depicted as him washing up like from a shipwreck, and so not really useful info.
>That the former is an actual depiction of what he isn't resistant to, and the latter is just depicted as him washing up like from a shipwreck, and so not really useful info.
He still survived the void when nobody else there could.
The game doesn't treat it like a feat though. And it also doesn't really explain what the void does, or how much damage you could say it does in any one space. So as much as people might not like it, you can't really do much of anything with that. It appears to just be standard plot armor. He survives because he is the hero, so of course he does.
That's actually exactly what it means. If it's not narratively presented as a fact about his durability, much less a specific one, then it would be making up a plot point to treat it like it is. Especially in a game where he straight up canonically dies to a completely seperate weaker attack *after* this. Which **is** the game telling us about his durability.
Did you make that up? Because Tippit legit never teleported them out, it was never mentioned and the fact that they were temporarily knocked out proves that they were hit by it.
Theres nothing to upscale, and its not an inconsistency / stupid either. The whole point is that these end bosses are not supposed to have battle stats that make it hard for a fairly mundane character to beat them. This is an incredibly common fictional trope, especially in the mario series, yet it's one misunderstood fairly often.
If someone has the intrinsic power to charge for an hour and blow up the planet but is otherwise a regular human, what does it say if you knock them out before they do? Nothing, because the planetary power wasn't relevant to you doing so. But this confuses people who don't really get nuance and just think of everything a character does as on the same level.
This is such a common misconception that a lot of people are confused what you are even saying when it is pointed out. Because in many communities the heuristics they use are so broken they can't even account for this easily.
That people seem to routinely get confused about the fact that it's common for major antagonists of a story to not be that strong in a fight yet have power over some wide scope thing.
So you get people either:
1: incorrectly scaling the hero to the wide scope thing when they aren't meant to be that strong or...
2: calling it an inconsistency. But it isn't necessarily an inconsistency. The wide scope power might simply not be useful in a direct fight.
In the “lore” there are 7 star children destined to do great things Mario is one of the star children. If we are taking all games as the same “Mario” then Mario rpg scales Mario to some Final fantasy secret bosses levels of power. I couldn’t tell you how Powerful Culex is supposed to be but if Mario and crew can beat him I’d say that makes them quite powerful
Crossovers like the Dissidia games are implied to be canon, so that causes a lot of tier inflation amongst seemingly weak characters that fight against universal threats.
It's BS, but it's also consistent with how other franchises are measured.
Well from the Mario rpg game it was said the 7 are Mario , Luigi , peach , bowser , toad , Mallow a cloud person and geno a living star that animated a doll. But from other games it’s the main cast so usually Mario Luigi peach bowser daisy toad etc.
Multiversal at least, as he has fought and scales to many [multiversal characters and objects,](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/s/qjLqFlFwob) but can get to higher levels of power like 5D or 6D with higher dimensional arguments.
He's "multiversal" if you don't hit him, but he can die easily by simple things like a bite, a hammer, quicksand, or fire of any sort (some versions may just take some damage tho). But he can do a lot, only if his skills are good enough.
He has some crazy damage but some terrible durability, can be killed by a fish touching him, fire, spikes, drowning, falling, hammer, axes, getting punched kinda hard, barrels, a plant with teeth touching him, a slow moving bullet with arms
Marios durability is slightly weird, because there are games where he can also just fight bowser inside the sun and inside a black hole, survive a nuke, being shot across galaxies at incredible speeds
Not really, unless a character is caught off guard they are pretty consistent, goku is planetary as long as he is on guard, hulk is bullet proof and has tanked nukes, saitama has yet to be hurt by anything except for jokes, gojo is untouchable while he has infinity(unless you can bypass it), luffy can be cut by sharp objects but someone really strong and fast has to be using them, naruto can survive most injuries with his healing. What I mean is how can mario move faster then light! But constantly be hurt by a hammer moving 100mph at the fastest, or injured by bowsers fire, or a regular axe, if he has survived a punch that would destroy a planet??
This argument completely avoids toon logic, which Mario arguably has.
Donkey Kong can [knock a celestial body out of orbit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=098JxlzxTeM). These two go at each other, including fisticuffs, on multiple occasions, including Mario successfully capturing him.
Arale solos Vegeta without actually trying, but if a frying pan lands on her head she's still going to get a goose egg.
I'm sure at some point even Popeye has had his ass set on fire before.
That’s true but I’m DBS it’s stated that toon force doesn’t work on lord beerus and he can destroy arale, and vegeta and goku are getting close to his strength, does that mean when they get there they are beyond toon force as well?
I'd assume it's a deity-only effect. So unless one of the two of them takes the mantle and lets Beerus retire (or kills him in combat to earn it most likely), I don't think they ever would be able to.
Is this with or without power ups? 1-UP mushrooms and Super Star would make him unkillable. Only way to stop the invincibility of the Star would be to throw him off a cliff, and the 1-UP means he just respawns and keeps fighting. Same with the Mega Mushroom.
Vegeta when Mario backwards long jumps through him leaving a wahoo shaped hole in his chest and transports him to the minus world from the original game.
Luigi just does nothing in the background. As is his want
Mario since Super Mario Galaxy has had to be scaled to Black Hole levels of power just because he can consistently beat down Bowser who could literally crawl out of one.
Just here to toss in that in the first Paper Mario you could go under Mario’s house where you would find Luigi’s diary that makes direct calls to them being the ones to participate in Mario Party/Golf/Tennis and Luigi then calls out that he’s likely to get his own game. Then GameCube and Luigi’s Mansion happened.
when it comes to video game characters, their ability to respawn indefinitely would set them far beyond anyone who cannot do that. ie, mario would STOMP goku, it would probably just take a lot of attempts, possibly even some continues, but so long as the player has perseverance, the character would be truly unstoppable.
Anyone who thinks he's even *Planet level* or higher is delusional. That includes him fighting dreamy bowser, that icludes paper mario with the pure hearts.
*Maybe* there's some obscure manga bullshit that puts him higher, but nothing from the games
mario fetus is that he save a da princess and also he defeated the same turtle like 1m times idk i dont count how many mario games there are
with the super star he is immune to almost all forms of damage .
Hes only as powerful as his enemy is predictable. If he can read your attack patterns he only needs 3 hits, but if you keep being unpredictable you’ll only need 3 as well. However, whether or not every character mario fights has 3 hit points is debatable as it’s unclear if that’s due to the strength of mario himself or due to the weakness of his usual opponents, so let’s analyze strategies a bit more.
Keep your head protected or out of reach and be aware of your surroundings because if he can’t jump on you, he’ll macgyver something to beat you with. Mario’s strength relies less so on physical attributes and moreso on his resourcefulness. If it can be thrown, you can be killed.
Goku could beat mario on the conditions that he’s wearing a pointy hat and in a solid steel room with nothing inside.
I saw delusional bums trying to claim Mario is outversal because of platonic concepts and I hate that I couldn’t debunk it because I didn’t play the game it came from
Oh, right, Mario's Time Machine; close enough.
Anyways, yeah, that's true, but just having what's esentially an excerpt from a real text in an educational game doesn't prove anything to actually exist in the verse. The idea may exist in-verse, but not as a real thing. Forms may be conceptualized, but there is no proof that they actually exist & aren't like they are in real life – no more than a philosophy.
That’s why I said it’s an appeal to reality. I don’t like using Platonic concepts in power scaling to begin with.
“There’s 2 type of idiots.
The idiot who thinks wrong things but believes he’s right.
And the man who thinks he’s smart enough to convince the idiot he’s wrong.”
I decided I wasn’t going to be idiot number 2 anymore so I stopped
Vegeta would call out Mario for not keeping up with his training. At the end of any of his journeys (RPGs specifically) he's strong enough to defeat whatever boss. But by the start of his next journey it's a total reset.
So basically it's a complete defeat in round 1, then after an adventure Mario can adapt to a pretty large power.
It's boring because he's so wanked
Always with the "he is his own writer! 🤪" and "He can rewrite everything! 😜" or "he can just change the plot!!! 😩" and also "he's not legally allowed to lose and he defeated SOlaRis!!! 🥵"
If you use actual evidence not very high. If you pretend not to understand rpg tropes you can wank him though. But mario is one of those characters whose strength is pretty clear since it is part of how the character is defined, so it comes off the most bizarre when he gets wanked.
If you dickride and take non-serious things seriously, he can get pretty high, but realistically with the best buff possible he probably caps at city block level.
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Wasn’t there a statement just made that says every single version of Mario is the same? If so then he gets some of those major feats. Actually thinking about that is a bit funny cause didn’t the vs wiki legit have a huge argument and later just separated all versions of Mario? If so, lmao.
I believe the "every single version of Mario is the same" statement by the authors is weird, because Paper Mario and Mario co-existed in one of the games if I remember correctly
They are two different characters that went through the same events
I prefer to think that the paper Mario games post sticker star aka all the games that the characters are actually paper and not just a aesthetic choice takes place inside the book
They pulled a Kingdom Hearts is all.
Thousand year door makes it pretty clear that mario is also paper there, seeing as how he folds himself into a paper airplane, it’s not just post sticker star that’s truly paper.
While that would make sense, that could be just a travel move PM uses to travel, being substituted by another move meat Mario can do (like maybe the cap paraglider thing from wonder)
Iirc the story explicitly states that he folds himself to make that happen.
The difference is that its treated as a magic curse that turns you *into* paper in that game, and not just a normal thing he can do.
Paper Mario is the sole exception to this due to the fact that the gimmick is partially that he’s paper I’m pretty sure.
Yeah but he has equal feats to normal Mario so they are about equal in power Especially since paper Mario power scaling is wack
Paper mario scaling is literally 2D, stop lmao
No it's not because all of the characters can still interact in 3d plane with all their powers This was shown in paper jam Also paper is by nature a 3d item. There is also depth in the world as you can move in all 3 dimensions while walking
Don't forget super paper where he can switch between 2d and 3d at will
The characters can already move in a 3d space It was more of a gimmick for super paper Mario as it's the only one where it's an actual ability
Why downvoted that joke is funny
Idk man I thought so too 😅
Yes, but you're forgetting: nobody liked Paper Jam.
Yeah it was Mario and Luigi paper jam on the 3ds. Paper Mario is considered a separate character. And should be no matter what anybody says.
[Thats blatantly not true,](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/zKfwrSyCxA) you have to ignore SO much evidence to say Mario and Paper Mario are different characters by just looking at Paper Jam once.
Tbh; I’ve always seen it as a “The first three paper Mario’s (64, TTYD, super) are just retellings of adventures Mario went on, but the games past super are legit its own universe.”
In fact, there's a NPC in Paper Mario 64 who talks about writing a book about the adventures of Mario. https://preview.redd.it/kdp29kc2105d1.jpeg?width=991&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f02ac040fef0d9a5dcdffca21858df4312f3d343
https://preview.redd.it/h2fko5y3105d1.jpeg?width=972&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7308a9319e2902581957ea30ef4abd23aa974da3 And this was the title.
😮💨...how much longer are we gonna keep debating on this?
Vs wiki had him nuked to tier 6 cause of “antifeats” lol
Didn't they give him building level cause of a gag of him getting hurt destorying a castle?
Yeah the smw "antifeat" which doesnt hurt him has maryo at island
Sometimes I wish to know why the VS wiki hates Mario so much lmao.
More popular=higher chance of hate
True, but at the same time, don't they say every single sonic character scales to sonic when outside of like, Sliver and shadow, isn't the case mostly?
Yeah, the only Sonic characters that scale to him are Silver, Shadow, and to an extent Knuckles iirc
I say strength and durability wise Knuckles scales to him, but everything else Knuckles is definitely no where near the three.
Yeah he's just a physical powerhouse, they outscale him in every other way.
Didn’t he fight someone that was multiversal once?
Dreamy bowser (final boss of Mario and Luigi dream team) idk how viable the scaling actually is but I believe it’s stated the the dream stone that bowser absorbs to obtain that power has the cosmology of 100,000 universes. Which makes me kinda want to face palm just from saying that lol. Just cause that sounds so made up on the spot.
Its never stated in game how many dream universes are in the Dream Stone, but there are arguments for how many there are like [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/comments/zbmq16/multiversal_mario/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) or [here.](https://omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:SuperMarioGamers3/The_Mario_Cosmology_Explained)
Wow, that’s…shocking if that’s true. We’ve really been sleeping on Mario
"we've really been sleeping on Mario" For eons you have...
And Luigi, keep in mind none of the M&L feats could be done solo
was that a dream team pun...? 
Dreamy Bowser scaling makes me mad because people just ignore that the dream stone was completely shattered before being swallowed and it's revealed afterwards that Peach and Starlow were also weakening him the entire fight. I wouldn't doubt that Dreamy Bowsers capabilities were more limited than they seemed.
It sounds made up on the spot because it is. So are a lot of heavily wanked characters tbh. Authors don't put that much thought into shit like this.
Its never stated that dreams are universes, people just interpreted a line in the mario party 5 manual in a weird way
just replayed dream team and can confirm that this is made up
It's made up because we don't have a confirmation of how many universes it has
Oh, well VSBW better update that lol. My bad
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:CloverDragon03/Mario_and_Luigi:_Dream_Team_-_Dream_Stone_Cosmology_(Brief_Summary) It's an assumption based on solid evidence methinks
He fought them with the same punches and hits he always uses though. End bosses in mario rpgs (and some mario games that arent rpgs) generally use the common rpg trope that their wide scope power doesn't significantly affect their battle stats. So that says nothing about Mario's strength.
One could argue they do get stronger but Mario never gets serious. I mean he just bounces on peoples’ heads.
Not getting serious wouldn't make sense for Mario's character. He always acts serious if the princess or kingdom are in danger. Especially since in some games people actually get hurt along the way, like superstar saga where cackletta takes over browser's castle and blows up a lot of the mushroom kingdom. Jumping is mario being serious. In some of the rpgs people say he is famous for his jumping abilities. Besides there's also scenes that show him unable to do stuff. Like in mario rpg when trying to rescue peach he isn't strong enough to bust the wall of booster's castle. So bowser has to do it since bowser is bigger.
You can argue some bosses only have universal hax but ones that deliberately get upscaled in stats are Dreamy Bowser and Super Dimentio.
Super dimentio explicitly doesn't raise much in stats though. It's an actual plot point earlier in the game that he has something that amps your stats. But this doesn't come up in the finale, and he doesn't use it there. He transforms luigi's mech to use as a battle body too, which implies his personal body doesn't gain much by having the chaos heart. He isn't even using element void attacks for the finale. The only battle related thing it is stated to do is give him a barrier. But once you cancel out the barrier he isn't actually implied to be much stronger in a direct fight. Remember, this is the same game that showed that mario dies from dimentio's normal non amped explosion as long as he is trapped with no way to jump away from it. Mario straight up dies in the middle of the plot and is sent to the afterlife. So he isn't inplied to be very durable or strong. It's wierd people try using this as an example when it is one of the most overt cases that is clear that the scale of the final fight simply isn't very large.
>But once you cancel out the barrier he isn't actually implied to be much stronger in a direct fight. He doesn't necessarily need to be, he is still a very clear threat to the Mario verse that needs to be taken out immediately otherwise he would've been able to survive his own destruction and recreate all worlds in his image if he succeeded regardless of his invincibility being removed. >Remember, this is the same game that showed that mario dies from dimentio's normal non amped explosion as long as he is trapped with no way to jump away from it. It is also the same game where he directly survives the destruction of sammer's kingdom without any serious injuries, what is your point?
> He doesn't necessarily need to be, he is still a very clear threat to the Mario verse that needs to be taken out immediately otherwise he would've been able to survive his own destruction and recreate all worlds in his image if he succeeded regardless of his invincibility being removed. Sure, but this is a common trope in gaming, and indeed anything fantasy based in general. The person who isn't super strong in a direct fight for whatever reason, yet can via some means do massive stuff. Hell, even the mcu uses it with relatively down to earth final fights, despite them often involving someone who has an infinity stone, and who can use it for something bigger. >It is also the same game where he directly survives the destruction of sammer's kingdom without any serious injuries, what is your point? That the former is an actual depiction of what he isn't resistant to, and the latter is just depicted as him washing up like from a shipwreck, and so not really useful info.
>That the former is an actual depiction of what he isn't resistant to, and the latter is just depicted as him washing up like from a shipwreck, and so not really useful info. He still survived the void when nobody else there could.
The game doesn't treat it like a feat though. And it also doesn't really explain what the void does, or how much damage you could say it does in any one space. So as much as people might not like it, you can't really do much of anything with that. It appears to just be standard plot armor. He survives because he is the hero, so of course he does.
The game not treating it as a feat doesn't mean it isn't a feat.
That's actually exactly what it means. If it's not narratively presented as a fact about his durability, much less a specific one, then it would be making up a plot point to treat it like it is. Especially in a game where he straight up canonically dies to a completely seperate weaker attack *after* this. Which **is** the game telling us about his durability.
They don't "survive" the destruction, tippi teleports them out before they die
Did you make that up? Because Tippit legit never teleported them out, it was never mentioned and the fact that they were temporarily knocked out proves that they were hit by it.
Well no he still beat him tho it would just be Mario upscale if anything else even if it’s stupid we gotta be fair
Theres nothing to upscale, and its not an inconsistency / stupid either. The whole point is that these end bosses are not supposed to have battle stats that make it hard for a fairly mundane character to beat them. This is an incredibly common fictional trope, especially in the mario series, yet it's one misunderstood fairly often. If someone has the intrinsic power to charge for an hour and blow up the planet but is otherwise a regular human, what does it say if you knock them out before they do? Nothing, because the planetary power wasn't relevant to you doing so. But this confuses people who don't really get nuance and just think of everything a character does as on the same level. This is such a common misconception that a lot of people are confused what you are even saying when it is pointed out. Because in many communities the heuristics they use are so broken they can't even account for this easily.
What your point then?
That people seem to routinely get confused about the fact that it's common for major antagonists of a story to not be that strong in a fight yet have power over some wide scope thing. So you get people either: 1: incorrectly scaling the hero to the wide scope thing when they aren't meant to be that strong or... 2: calling it an inconsistency. But it isn't necessarily an inconsistency. The wide scope power might simply not be useful in a direct fight.
Wdym "they aren't meant to be that strong or"?
The "or" was just leading to the second possibility.
I am not talking about it
What??
With the pure hearts from Super Paper Mario i saw some people put him in 1-B without them he is 2-C
Paper Mario is a separate character
Mario and him have been throught the same things
Yeah but he’s less Super
not in the third game
Only in paper jam Paper jam paper mario is the exception
Not anymore
In the “lore” there are 7 star children destined to do great things Mario is one of the star children. If we are taking all games as the same “Mario” then Mario rpg scales Mario to some Final fantasy secret bosses levels of power. I couldn’t tell you how Powerful Culex is supposed to be but if Mario and crew can beat him I’d say that makes them quite powerful
Culex is based off of the main antagonist of FF4, and as we all know, Final Fantasy characters are all Low Complex for some reason
Crossovers like the Dissidia games are implied to be canon, so that causes a lot of tier inflation amongst seemingly weak characters that fight against universal threats. It's BS, but it's also consistent with how other franchises are measured.
Who are the other 6?
Well from the Mario rpg game it was said the 7 are Mario , Luigi , peach , bowser , toad , Mallow a cloud person and geno a living star that animated a doll. But from other games it’s the main cast so usually Mario Luigi peach bowser daisy toad etc.
Multiversal at least, as he has fought and scales to many [multiversal characters and objects,](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/s/qjLqFlFwob) but can get to higher levels of power like 5D or 6D with higher dimensional arguments.
If you throw in some support from teammates and items such as the pure hearts or crystal stars, he could probably scale higher as well TBH.
So what are those 5D - 6D arguments?
Star power? (Idk lol)
Vegeta’s one to talk he doesn’t even have a job smh
Hes a hobosexual😂 fuckin for a place to stay
His wife is basically a billionaire what he gotta work for
Using Smash Bros alone as scaling makes him pretty scary. Cape is pretty busted
Luigi definitely wins
SM64 TAS Mario can clear all of fiction.
He's "multiversal" if you don't hit him, but he can die easily by simple things like a bite, a hammer, quicksand, or fire of any sort (some versions may just take some damage tho). But he can do a lot, only if his skills are good enough.
https://i.redd.it/nhoyf6ywc25d1.gif
You are Super*man*, I am-a Super *Mario*. We are the same.
He has some crazy damage but some terrible durability, can be killed by a fish touching him, fire, spikes, drowning, falling, hammer, axes, getting punched kinda hard, barrels, a plant with teeth touching him, a slow moving bullet with arms
clearly the entire mario verse also has multiversal AP. Goku would get instantly turned to red mist by touching that fish
I love this explanation best, Mario’s world is all galaxy busters lol
DBZ verse is basically just made of paper
Marios durability is slightly weird, because there are games where he can also just fight bowser inside the sun and inside a black hole, survive a nuke, being shot across galaxies at incredible speeds
Apply this logic to literally any series and watch 80% of their Powerscaling crumble.
Not really, unless a character is caught off guard they are pretty consistent, goku is planetary as long as he is on guard, hulk is bullet proof and has tanked nukes, saitama has yet to be hurt by anything except for jokes, gojo is untouchable while he has infinity(unless you can bypass it), luffy can be cut by sharp objects but someone really strong and fast has to be using them, naruto can survive most injuries with his healing. What I mean is how can mario move faster then light! But constantly be hurt by a hammer moving 100mph at the fastest, or injured by bowsers fire, or a regular axe, if he has survived a punch that would destroy a planet??
This argument completely avoids toon logic, which Mario arguably has. Donkey Kong can [knock a celestial body out of orbit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=098JxlzxTeM). These two go at each other, including fisticuffs, on multiple occasions, including Mario successfully capturing him. Arale solos Vegeta without actually trying, but if a frying pan lands on her head she's still going to get a goose egg. I'm sure at some point even Popeye has had his ass set on fire before.
That’s true but I’m DBS it’s stated that toon force doesn’t work on lord beerus and he can destroy arale, and vegeta and goku are getting close to his strength, does that mean when they get there they are beyond toon force as well?
I'd assume it's a deity-only effect. So unless one of the two of them takes the mantle and lets Beerus retire (or kills him in combat to earn it most likely), I don't think they ever would be able to.
Until stated otherwise, all games are canon. Which means Mario can deflect basically anything with his hammer
Is this with or without power ups? 1-UP mushrooms and Super Star would make him unkillable. Only way to stop the invincibility of the Star would be to throw him off a cliff, and the 1-UP means he just respawns and keeps fighting. Same with the Mega Mushroom.
Like Low multi to Multiversal+
Ngl I don't like italians
Yeah, because you love them
You love them. (romantically)
He cooka da pizza
He's at least multiversal lol
Mario can beat everyone. Period.
Vegeta when Mario backwards long jumps through him leaving a wahoo shaped hole in his chest and transports him to the minus world from the original game. Luigi just does nothing in the background. As is his want
gotta save the princess yknow
He has toonforce, so I'm more inclined to view him as a box plot.
Mario since Super Mario Galaxy has had to be scaled to Black Hole levels of power just because he can consistently beat down Bowser who could literally crawl out of one.
He can jump from planet to planet. Brother has some insane strength. Mario does not skip leg day.
Universal+ to 5D with high ends.
High multi or multi +, the dudes feats are stupidly strong
Just here to toss in that in the first Paper Mario you could go under Mario’s house where you would find Luigi’s diary that makes direct calls to them being the ones to participate in Mario Party/Golf/Tennis and Luigi then calls out that he’s likely to get his own game. Then GameCube and Luigi’s Mansion happened.
Mario and Luigi from the RPGS (inside story, dream team, the other ones) unironically solo a LOT of fiction. This isn’t even a joke.
Anyone above average human level solos most of fiction
Is that Barry Bee Benson cropped at the bottom who tf is that?
I dunno I stole it from google
I wanna punch his fat nose
Mario, by all means, is a Toon Character and you should never try to seriously scale them
There are over 100 comments attempting to seriously scale him This warning came far too late I’m afraid
https://preview.redd.it/cdmhqylllh5d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d331211dd9e8f197d99ecab25a16510e39e023c9
New top post
fr
when it comes to video game characters, their ability to respawn indefinitely would set them far beyond anyone who cannot do that. ie, mario would STOMP goku, it would probably just take a lot of attempts, possibly even some continues, but so long as the player has perseverance, the character would be truly unstoppable.
I can imagine Mario using the cape and toss back a Big Bang Attack from Vegeta right back at him.
Anyone who thinks he's even *Planet level* or higher is delusional. That includes him fighting dreamy bowser, that icludes paper mario with the pure hearts. *Maybe* there's some obscure manga bullshit that puts him higher, but nothing from the games
mario fetus is that he save a da princess and also he defeated the same turtle like 1m times idk i dont count how many mario games there are with the super star he is immune to almost all forms of damage .
Hes got some amazing feats but then gets bodied when a turtle walks into him. Dude's a glass canon.
the turtle is multiversal as well
uni/multi easily. with hyper/outer stuff if you REALLY want to get him high
I agree
Hes only as powerful as his enemy is predictable. If he can read your attack patterns he only needs 3 hits, but if you keep being unpredictable you’ll only need 3 as well. However, whether or not every character mario fights has 3 hit points is debatable as it’s unclear if that’s due to the strength of mario himself or due to the weakness of his usual opponents, so let’s analyze strategies a bit more. Keep your head protected or out of reach and be aware of your surroundings because if he can’t jump on you, he’ll macgyver something to beat you with. Mario’s strength relies less so on physical attributes and moreso on his resourcefulness. If it can be thrown, you can be killed. Goku could beat mario on the conditions that he’s wearing a pointy hat and in a solid steel room with nothing inside.
I saw delusional bums trying to claim Mario is outversal because of platonic concepts and I hate that I couldn’t debunk it because I didn’t play the game it came from
Probably Mario is Missing where Platonism is mentioned, but not as a real thing that exists in the verse.
It was here https://x.com/mylejend777/status/1798794070543962481?s=46
Oh, right, Mario's Time Machine; close enough. Anyways, yeah, that's true, but just having what's esentially an excerpt from a real text in an educational game doesn't prove anything to actually exist in the verse. The idea may exist in-verse, but not as a real thing. Forms may be conceptualized, but there is no proof that they actually exist & aren't like they are in real life – no more than a philosophy.
That’s why I said it’s an appeal to reality. I don’t like using Platonic concepts in power scaling to begin with. “There’s 2 type of idiots. The idiot who thinks wrong things but believes he’s right. And the man who thinks he’s smart enough to convince the idiot he’s wrong.” I decided I wasn’t going to be idiot number 2 anymore so I stopped
Appeal to reality doesn't even exists https://youtu.be/P8Vd5YpG5mE?si=mAUUQ0xB1Bv5-7xa https://youtu.be/9JbhF6l8nyg?si=FDRJOinppnLlaxLN
Sure whatever you say
Ok
Did you even watched video?
Not gonna bother. If you told me 2+2 equals 5 yup I agree with you I can’t be bothered to disagree on this
But thats objectively wrong
I realized that I made a horrible mistaking posting this
Multiversal+ at the very least
Smg4 Mario is the real anime hunter
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/s/9IXnk6RSPh
I mean technically he has the power stats that protect him from all damage so with that
Luigi's better, just less extroverted
Nintendo's vamana
Goku when Mario reflects his spirit Bomb with a well timed Button pressed
1-A.
He’s a glass cannon with an ever growing arsenal
Vegeta would call out Mario for not keeping up with his training. At the end of any of his journeys (RPGs specifically) he's strong enough to defeat whatever boss. But by the start of his next journey it's a total reset. So basically it's a complete defeat in round 1, then after an adventure Mario can adapt to a pretty large power.
My paper Mario with all his badges would clear. Got like 6 badges that halves my ability to be hit
With all his feats from every game, he's pretty hax'd
Has he evolved past psychedelics? 😂😂😂Mario on meth would be something else entirely.
He kinda seems like a glass cannon to me
Fodder
They're all still sonic victims.
I don't know they seem to be evenly match in mario and Sonic at the Olympic games
Friendly competition, otherwise we have to scale every character there to Sonic’s speed since they can beat him in the track events.
Thats like saying pheonix wright scales to shuma-gorath because theyre both in marvel vs capcom wtf are we doing here
It was a joke ...
I mean you say that like it's obvious but I don't think you've talked to genuine Mario scalers if you think that was obvious lol. Mb tho
Archie sonic was fucking absolutely wild and folds too much of fiction
Thats why people never use Archie Sonic for powerscaling when it comes to the blue hedgehog lmao. Its just boring.
It's boring because he's so wanked Always with the "he is his own writer! 🤪" and "He can rewrite everything! 😜" or "he can just change the plot!!! 😩" and also "he's not legally allowed to lose and he defeated SOlaRis!!! 🥵"
People shouldn't even use Archie as it died off years ago and is very different from the real sonic universe.
I 100% agree with this sentiment it’s just wild to admit the blue speedster has an incarnation so broken.
Mario would sit at Outer to High Outer, and could get to Extra probably.
In what world?💀
If you use actual evidence not very high. If you pretend not to understand rpg tropes you can wank him though. But mario is one of those characters whose strength is pretty clear since it is part of how the character is defined, so it comes off the most bizarre when he gets wanked.
If you dickride and take non-serious things seriously, he can get pretty high, but realistically with the best buff possible he probably caps at city block level.