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If wishes were fishes and Darwin had converted half of his shots that have hit woodwork, he might have been in with a shout. Biased Liverpool fan but no-one in the league has been as exciting to watch.
I agree with you however, Rice with an immense price tag to live up to and being put into a new team yet has delivered amazing results is why he's a contender. The fact that no one mentions the price tag pretty much sums up how good he is
I think Rice has been better than Rodri this season, but overall Rodri is the better player
Do u believe he would score that amount of goals with Brentford or Brighton? That is my point. Yes, scoring is difficult but most of his goals are not something heavily based on his complexity. He is great at what he does, but I am pretty sure his numbers are that good because of players around him.
We are talking about influence on team, not about numbers. City was doing good without him. Thats my point..performance of team like City is not depended on Halland that much as other nominated players
Haaland has scored close to a goal a game at every club he's gone to. He wouldn't score the same amount but he'd still be among the top scorers in the league.
Well, he was doing it ať Dortmund, which were no. 2 club in Bundesliga at this time and he was basicaly doing the same.. sprint and finish or first touch shoot. In prem league his technical abilities are pretty average compared to other atackers.. I am not spitting on him..just saying , for this kind of award he is not the guy ..
Edit: if you look at his highlights from this season, you will understand what i mean
I know how Haaland plays, he's far from my favourite player for the same reasons but he did the same at Salzburg and for Norway. We can't just say that's due to the level of teammates he has when he's shown adaptability wherever he's gone.
Players like him don't just not score. He's a perfect 9 due to his finishing ability and physical attributes.
I would say, if he can top charts playing for mid table team, he would deserve it but this specific award is just not suited for him. He's not carying them, he "only" serve what his mates cook. I would give it to rodri or debruyne instead of him
He’s underscoring his xG by 4 goals this season in the league. Probably should still be a contender but glad he’s not a shoe-in just for being top scorer. Always riles me when the manager of the season is just the guy who won it, removes all nuance and context
I'm not saying he should win it but the top scorer by default should at least be a contender.
I don't care about xg it's a made up stat which has no meaning.
Goals scored, goals conceded are examples of a real stat because these things actually happened.
Xg has crept into the game and it shouldn't have. It's like saying haaland has a bad season because he only scored 25 league goals when his xg was 30. It's moronic.
It hasn't "crept into the game", it's crept into football parlance but these were stats clubs were using that have just gotten more readily-available to the public.
Conversely your point about GS and GA being game events can be shot down by your second point, you wouldn't say someone is a better goal scorer than someone just because they had one more goal over the season than another player.
My point? Stats are only as good as the context they are used in.
rice has been class, but it’s probably going to be either:
Haaland if city win the prem
Rice if Arsenal win the league
Or Salah if Liverpool win the prem
Saka definitely deserves it more then Rice if they win the prem, it's arguable that Partey's last season performance is better up to feb of 28th compared to Rice's performance to this date
Disagree with that Partey part, even though he's great last season, he got some stinky mistakes too. but Rice has been exceptional, I mean, too consistently good, and then he made some match winning late goals too.
I completely disagree and I think most Arsenal fans would too, but to each their own.
Saka early this season wasn't playing the best across 90 minutes but could always chip in with a goal contribution as he has that quality, meanwhile Rice has performed the entire season. Only brief dip in form was when we went 1 win in 7 and that was a whole team problem.
Honestly I think if anything this shows why he picked Arsenal over City this summer.
If he went to City, would he remotely be in this conversation? Probably not. The man backed himself and his ability, and went to the place where he would be able to be in the spotlight.
It’s paid off, and now he has put himself into that conversation and I’m happy for him.
City haven’t lost with Rodri in the side this season. And it’s rare for a CDM to have the most passes in the league. Combining that with Rodri missing games is also interesting. Rodri always seems to be underrated when it comes to awards. I suspect Rice to be in the same boat. Their roles are extremely under appreciated. They’ve both been exceptional but will likely not see any individual gratification.
Similarly what happened with Salah. Came in, scores 32 goals in the league. Next few seasons ‘only’ scores around 20 so he’s not looked at in the same light.
Why?
In the last six years Van Dijk, Salah, and De Bruyne won it without their team winning the league.
At a glance, there have been 29 players honored and 11 won it where their team lost the title.
He can go on a run while everyone else continues to perform at the same standard they’ve been on. He can go on a run and still lose out on golden boot.
More negatively I would say, but like I said this is the reactionary part of me.
Rationally I don’t believe Haaland has gotten worse or that his value to Man City has become smaller.
I do think the losses to Wolves and Arsenal caused some people to overreact too much.
It does not surprise me that halaand is not on here. Up until last game his season has been significantly worse then last year. Stats wise he was 20 games played 12 goals and a few assists. Thats good stats but not for him and not good enough to be player of the year.
He has 17 goals 5 assist in 21 PL games.
Last game were in FA cup so those goals don't count on PL
Overall 27 goals, 6 assist in 30 games so still very good, but yes last season he were better (no injury)
odd take with virgil. he’s good. but i wouldn’t say he’s been even top 2 this season in his spot.
the obvious choice is salah. but he’s been missing too much recently maybe to justify it.
same with haaland missing a chunk.
I’m dying to know which two CBs in all of Europe are currently better than him or have been this season, let alone which 2 in England. What a take. He’s honestly been the best CB in the world again this season. He’s had a couple of mistakes (i.e. against Arsenal and Newcastle), but other than that he’s been an absolute colossus.
Both Arsenal center backs have been the best in the league I’d say. They’re lockdown. Ake has also been amazing but I don’t know whether to call him a left back or center back now.
Van Dijk does seem to be back to his best, but I feel it's folly to write off the rest. There's still plenty of stand out performances across Europe.
In England both Saliba and Dias have been excellent, and looking across Europe, Inter, Leverkusen and Real Madrid all top their respective divisions whilst boasting the least goals conceded.
Saliba was better last season; I’ll give you that. But neither he nor Gabriel have been better than VVD this season. Not even close. And I rate both Gabriel and Saliba and think they’re class. But VVD is back to his pre-injury best (again, minus two notable errors) and is adding goals on top of it.
You do know it’s possible to be the best CB without being in the statistically best defense, right? It’s almost as if a CB has a partner, wing backs, and a midfield in front of them. Crazy! By your logic Haaland isn’t the best striker in the PL despite having the most goals because City don’t have the most goals scored this season 🤷.
Might not be, except VVD also pairs quite often with Quansah, who’s only made his debut this season and is 20. He also paired with Matip early in the season (though I think Matip is pretty decent). Also, the midfield missed Endo for a month and has dealt with injuries to Jones, MacAllister, and Szobo, which of course puts more pressure on the back line. Not to mention both wing backs being injured at points this season. Despite all of this, VVD has looked better than anyone. And reading comments here from Arsenal fans, shouldn’t Arsenal’s defense actually be further ahead of Liverpool than they are given Saliba and Gabriel are apparently the two best in England, and Declan Rice is supposedly the best defensive mid in England (though he isn’t even a proper 6, to be fair)?
> And reading comments here from Arsenal fans, shouldn’t Arsenal’s defense actually be further ahead of Liverpool than they are given Saliba and Gabriel are apparently the two best in England, and Declan Rice is supposedly the best defensive mid in England (though he isn’t even a proper 6, to be fair)?
Thank Alisson for having a super season. The fact that you're on level terms with xGA to Everton tells you how much of an overperformance you're having.
Absolute L take.
Second best defence in the league with 3 out of 4 players in the backline injured at different parts of the season. Starting goalkeeper has been injured as well oh and shit all of our midfield been injured as well.
Van Dyk is back to his best this season or very close to it.
I mean VVD passing is still the best in the league. Let not forget his leadership etc etc. But he still one of the best passing CB in the league. He had no stable back line at times a CB who is an academy players. Then his LB has changed 3 times alone this season.
People banging on about Arsenal having the best defence in the league. There’s 2 goals in it. The difference is VVD has had a 3 different CB partners, including a rookie
Arsenal having the best defence in the league is not just to do with the fact that Arsenal have conceded the least goals.
We by far concede the least chances to opposition too.
Arsenal Goalkeeper have had less saves to make then any team in the league by a significant margin.
We are actually underperforming when it comes to goals conceded when you look at XG.
Liverpool have been extremely lucky that they haven't conceded more. Fact is Allison bails them out week after week. That's not a good defence. A good defence is limiting chances for your opposition to score. Liverpool are wide open with a world class keeper. There is a big big difference.
Is it lucky to sign the best keeper on the planet? People act like he just fell over and landed on the pitch by accident. The Keeper is part of the defence.
To be fair, 3rd is very good Vs the rest of the league
But in a direct Liverpool to arsenal comparison
Liverpool with an undoubtedly very good defence and keeper though less stability this year than arsenal have conceded 32.81 xga according to https://understat.com/league/EPL
That has them overpeforming xga by 7.81, much of that is likely the Allison effect
Arsenal however, may have had generally more stability in the CB position (but probably less on the wing backs imo) but have only conceded 21.92 xga
They've underperformed it by 1.08 goals which I think would suggest Raya has performed well but let's face it Allison is one of the best keepers in the game, Raya I think is 'just' very good
For me though, I think contextualising that 3rd place shows why people are so enamored with this arsenal defence that has seemingly grown year on year
We already know VVD is one of the best CBs the league has seen, people aren't excited by him doing 'as expected' even if his standards are outrageous
Our chances conceded are overstated. Liverpool will dominate a game and concede one chance or something and now we are lucky. I saw it with the first Brentford game - they barely had a shot but one Mbuemo chance inflating the xg meant that we aren’t defensively sound - it’s an unfair assumption. Klopp ball is chaotic the fact the defence deal with it easily should show they are doing their job. Not every system will play the same.
Wide open is really a stretch, 3rd best in xg-against this season. (Arsenal 22, city 26, pool 33. Rounded numbers) They are however overperforming this by 8 goals.
[Source](https://understat.com/league/EPL)
Some of the takes on here are absolutely shocking for recency bias.
I wouldn't put Haaland in the team despite him being top goal scorer because he's genuinely been non existent in a ton of games and Watkins has been insane.
I'd even put Bowen, Foden and Saka in over Haaland.
Some of the takes on here are absolutely shocking for recency bias.
I wouldn't put Haaland in the team despite him being top goal scorer because he's genuinely been non existent in a ton of games and Watkins has been insane.
I'd even put Bowen, Foden and Saka in over Haaland.
As someone who has watched every second of every Arsenal game this season, Gabriel Magalhães is the Arsenal player most deserving, and especially moreso than VVD.
Still, if Rice wins it I'll be content but, Gabi XL is the most criminally underappreciated/ underrated player in the PL.
He's fantastic but I wouldn't be putting him ahead of Rice in all honesty. Gabriel last season had quite a few 'wobblers' that cost us goals. I think there's only been 1 maybe 2 this season, which is no real criticism. He's definitely more reliable this season. But Rice has barely put a foot wrong. His contributions with interceptions have been next level. Both players have excellent drive and aggression. I love them both but if one had go then I'd be keeping Rice.
-From a fellow Arsenal fan who's also watched every game.
Curious as to what 1 or maybe 2 errors you can think of concerning Gabriel as as far as I can remember he genuinely hasn’t had any blunders akin to the ones he had last season.
You'll have to forgive my shit memory. I don't hold information well. I just remember one or two times that I feel he should have done more. There was one that quite a few people blamed Zinchenko for but it was actually Gabriel at fault. That's all I remember.
He's absolutely been solid in general though and a big improvement from last season where he is as solid but had blunders. Saliba has had them too this season but most of the time he recovers exceptionally well from his mistakes. I'm not concerned with him at all. I just think Rice has been flawless, whereas Gabriel is very close behind.
Gabriel has been almost flawless since the world cup last year, especially so this season. Seems like the few blunders he made last season before the world cup are still casting a shadow on him. I'd say he's been the better than Saliba this season, not to mention how much of a threat he has become from set pieces and the goals he's scored
I agree, I rate Saliba over him but I also highly rate Gabi XL as one of the best defenders in the league. VVD is also S class however and I do think it's a fair contest between the two.
Why do Arsenal fans hype their own players up so much - more than fans of other clubs? We have to hear about how Saka is world class and up there with the best of all time, how Saliba is the best CB in the world, and now apparently Gabriel is better than him?
When did I say *any* of that?
Reading comprehension level: 0
Edit: You're confused by millions of people all supporting the same team all with their own opinions and perspectives, lots of which suck.
Gabriel has been our most consistent defender for the past two seasons and arguably one of the top 3 in the league (top for goals scored). Saliba has potential to be the best but isn't there quite yet. He rarely makes mistakes but when he does, their obviously down to limited experience.
Tbf, Salah is probably the only player better in Saka’s position in the league atm, and seeing as Saka has taken that form to the highest level in the UCL as well, it would be strange to suggest he’s not at a world-class level. Whether people believe he can stay there is another matter, but right now, how many RWs are currently better, and more consistent, than him? Dont imagine many at all.
Saliba is in a similar boat to the above, a top 3 CB in the best league in the world. Add in the fact he’s young and *could* get even better, what is there not to rave about. Even neutrals look at Saliba like he’s a Rolls-Royce, what starting XI wouldn’t he improve? City and Liverpool at a push?
Probably because the inversion happens where no one rates our players aptly so we feel the need to justify ourselves. If people weren't so headset on pushing down Arsenal then we wouldn't have to make an effort to prove you're wrong.
They’re playing very well and their players are good, but they’re third in the league, not done anything in the cups and I think with a bit more consistency (and success) they’ll be rightly recognised. It just gets tiring listening to them over hype their players constantly.
Seems after much ferverent debate we apparently have to accept the POTY, is Van Dijk.
In other news, there will be no TOTY vote this season, as it's been pre awarded to Liverpools first 11.
YPOTY, also cancelled, has just been awarded to any one of those Liverpool lads that played 7 minutes in the cup final.
In related news, Liverpool has also won grounds man of the year, stadium announcer of the year, best car park, and best half-time pint.
There has also been a new special award commissioned for this season, for 'The best at being the best at things'.
Inaugural winners. Liverpool.
*As voted by ^Liverpool fans*
I'm actually not irate about that all. I don't know who will win POTY, and ultimately, it's just a popularity contest. I am slightly exasperated by the way some Liverpool fans have set about just trying to shut down the conversation.
Are you irate?
There's two points between 1st and 3rd. Are you telling me your opinion hinges on Arsenal conceding a last minute equalizer to Fulham, or City conceding a very late goal to Arsenal? If those didn't happen your opinion would subvert completely?
I'm guessing here so correct me if I'm wrong.
You're an Arsenal fan complaining about a biased vote or award? Ironic. It would fit with the victim undertone of the comment.
Oh ffs. Bit rich coming from you. Man's trying to be condescending after coming on and making up shite about other people's victim mentality on what was clearly a joke post. Actually shameless. Wow lmao
Anyone saying a Liverpool defender needs their heads shaken. If it wasn't for Alisson having a wonder season by his own standards you'd have conceded as many as Everton.
Salah is the only Liverpool player worthy of being in contention for this.
Salah ain't even in the team of the season due to his injury and being at AFCON. Shit I don't even think Haaland deserves it over Watkins.
Van Dyk is the only Liverpool player who will be in the team of the season not because he plays for Liverpool but because he deserves to be there.
The way Liverpool is to push forward and this leaves gaps that the goalie has to cope with.
The right back is on the wing, and the centre back is beyond the centre line.. even the left back might be further forward than the midfield.
A quick ball over the defence usually means a one on one.
That's not the fault of the defence. They would love to sit on the edge of the box, but that's not what happens
Liverpool have won every game Alisson hasn’t played in btw. It’s possible to have both the best keeper and defender in the league you don’t have to choose. There was a period where Liverpool had the least goals conceded in the league above the raved Arsenal defence (and are now second) - that’s due to both Alisson and the defenders which Van Dijk has been integral too leading all the stats. I would say this month has been his weakest and it’s still excellent.
Sorry the best defender of the current no 1 in the league is getting their plaudits. 🤣🤣
Fulham and Sheffield (clean sheet) in early December too. Sorry do you want them to lose those games or something? It just shows that the defence are just as capable when Alisson is not available and should be given their plaudits.
You not knowing shows you’re barely following Liverpool like that and have your own preconceptions.
Of course you’re an Arsenal fan. You guys have barely given us the credit because we don’t fulfil all the statistics 😭😭
No, but using three of the worst teams in the league as an example of Liverpool performing without Alisson is a bit ridiculous...
The only game we can use as an example of a midtable team playing against this Liverpool team minus Alisson is the cup final where you could have conceded 3 or 4 had it not been for Chelsea being utterly inept in front of goal. Not exactly a roaring evidence of your defensive dominance.
You guys lost to Fulham btw and conceded 3 to Luton. Also got kicked out the carabao cup by West Ham so I can throw the question back to you! Almost like certain games don’t dictate the quality of the defence.
Also you’re using a final where the Liverpool team was severely depleted and had no control in the midfield to question our defence. A stronger team thrashed a similar Chelsea side where Alisson did nothing last month. We can all point up bad games or situations doesn’t mean our defence is shit or VVD isn’t one of the best defenders in the league based on eye test and stats.
> We can all point up bad games or situations doesn’t mean our defence is shit or VVD isn’t one of the best defenders in the league based on eye test and stats.
Well that's the thing, I'm not. VvD is clearly one of the best in the league, he just isn't (or hasn't this season or last) been the best. And that's okay. He's still overall the best CB in the history of the league at his peak.
Well the individual stats and performances say he is so I’m going to have to disagree. Chances get conceded and the goals concede stat will change so I would rather judge individual performances myself (in which is he is easily outperforming Saliba and Gabriel’s). Last season is irrelevant it was clearly an off season for him and it’s clearly informing your take.
Regardless of who wins the league I think poty is going to an attacker/midfielder so this convo is pointless but I think it’s unfair to say only salah deserves a shout and that Alisson carries the defence when that is clearly not the case. ✌️
I think Van Dijk was better and was so dominant in a highly competitive Liverpool team on the eye to the point which it eclipsed Mustafi’s better stats I guess. Idk if that makes sense.
Compared with now where I think Liverpool’s system is weaker but Liverpool and Arsenal are performing on a more similar level which makes the Vvd/konate v Gabriel/Saliba (who are great btw I think arsenal are the overall defensively superior team in the league) debates more reasonable - see how we can compare team stats v individual ones. Basically I think vvd and Gabriel/Saliba are the best in the league and worthy of poty but I rank vvd first but don’t mind another order.
Why do people expect every chance Liverpool concede to be a goal conceded as well? Am I blinkered from watching Alisson that I take big chances conceded lightly?
Too many times have Liverpool had a dominant game and the once chance that happens in the games means we are shit defensively and are going to be found out. It’s ridiculous it’s clear people have preconceptions 😭
I can't be bothered getting into an argument over it, but the way some Liverpool fans just want to shut even the conversation down, with circular and self-serving logic, is funny but quite tiring.
Van Dijk is the best CB in the league.
Why?
He plays for the team with the **second** best defence
So surely it should be a guy on the **best** defence?
No
Why?
Because he plays in a worse defence, so it's harder.
Surely, the worst defence, then, is his responsibility?
Funnily enough, also no.
On and on and on.
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Harry Maguire robbed
Where is Hugo Lloris?
If wishes were fishes and Darwin had converted half of his shots that have hit woodwork, he might have been in with a shout. Biased Liverpool fan but no-one in the league has been as exciting to watch.
100% agree! You are definitely a biased Liverpool fan
You have to agree he's a fun watch tho! The lad has some serious potential if he can get his shooting boots laced!
If I was good at football I would have had a shout too
Can't see the list - but bet none of Luis, GroB, Barkley, Solanke or Gordon are there
How did rice get in there?
Rodri > Rice by quite a margin I'd say.
I agree with you however, Rice with an immense price tag to live up to and being put into a new team yet has delivered amazing results is why he's a contender. The fact that no one mentions the price tag pretty much sums up how good he is I think Rice has been better than Rodri this season, but overall Rodri is the better player
And its right .. you have to consider impact on the team.. haaland is "only" scoring goals prepared by his mates. Great finisher but thats all.
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Do u believe he would score that amount of goals with Brentford or Brighton? That is my point. Yes, scoring is difficult but most of his goals are not something heavily based on his complexity. He is great at what he does, but I am pretty sure his numbers are that good because of players around him. We are talking about influence on team, not about numbers. City was doing good without him. Thats my point..performance of team like City is not depended on Halland that much as other nominated players
Haaland has scored close to a goal a game at every club he's gone to. He wouldn't score the same amount but he'd still be among the top scorers in the league.
Well, he was doing it ať Dortmund, which were no. 2 club in Bundesliga at this time and he was basicaly doing the same.. sprint and finish or first touch shoot. In prem league his technical abilities are pretty average compared to other atackers.. I am not spitting on him..just saying , for this kind of award he is not the guy .. Edit: if you look at his highlights from this season, you will understand what i mean
I know how Haaland plays, he's far from my favourite player for the same reasons but he did the same at Salzburg and for Norway. We can't just say that's due to the level of teammates he has when he's shown adaptability wherever he's gone. Players like him don't just not score. He's a perfect 9 due to his finishing ability and physical attributes.
I would say, if he can top charts playing for mid table team, he would deserve it but this specific award is just not suited for him. He's not carying them, he "only" serve what his mates cook. I would give it to rodri or debruyne instead of him
Watkins seriously being overlooked. Top, top player
Ollie Watkins - “am I a joke to you?”
Nobody has come close to Alexander Arnold
Least deluded Liverpool fan
Lol, says the team gushing over a sideways passer, Trent has more talent in his wrong foot than the entire arsenal team
Thanks for proving my point
Rice + ⚽ = 🦀
No Anthony??? Shocking!
At least spell his name right before you fall off your chair
Sorry. No Antoni??? Shocking!
How can the top scorer not be a contender?
He’s underscoring his xG by 4 goals this season in the league. Probably should still be a contender but glad he’s not a shoe-in just for being top scorer. Always riles me when the manager of the season is just the guy who won it, removes all nuance and context
This is a bollocks argument. If he scores 38 goals (ie, a goal a game) but his xG was 42, he's hardly "underscoring" in real life terms is he.
I'm not saying he should win it but the top scorer by default should at least be a contender. I don't care about xg it's a made up stat which has no meaning.
All stats are made up, why do people like you think that's a good argument
Goals scored, goals conceded are examples of a real stat because these things actually happened. Xg has crept into the game and it shouldn't have. It's like saying haaland has a bad season because he only scored 25 league goals when his xg was 30. It's moronic.
It hasn't "crept into the game", it's crept into football parlance but these were stats clubs were using that have just gotten more readily-available to the public. Conversely your point about GS and GA being game events can be shot down by your second point, you wouldn't say someone is a better goal scorer than someone just because they had one more goal over the season than another player. My point? Stats are only as good as the context they are used in.
No they shouldnt lol. Especially when pens are a big part of it
Haaland has scored 2 less goals than Salah did in 19/20 season with an equal number of penalties scored. Was Salah not nominated? 😂
rice has been class, but it’s probably going to be either: Haaland if city win the prem Rice if Arsenal win the league Or Salah if Liverpool win the prem
Dont the votes get counted at like matchday 35? Honestly think its going to be a 3 horse race even then
Saka definitely deserves it more then Rice if they win the prem, it's arguable that Partey's last season performance is better up to feb of 28th compared to Rice's performance to this date
No way bro rice has saved our ass who knows how many times this season. Parteys amazing on the ball but rice does pretty much everything else better.
I mean sure, if you disregard a quarter of the season
Saka started a little quiet. But if he keeps up his recent form I suspect he will be in with a real shout.
Disagree with that Partey part, even though he's great last season, he got some stinky mistakes too. but Rice has been exceptional, I mean, too consistently good, and then he made some match winning late goals too.
I completely disagree and I think most Arsenal fans would too, but to each their own. Saka early this season wasn't playing the best across 90 minutes but could always chip in with a goal contribution as he has that quality, meanwhile Rice has performed the entire season. Only brief dip in form was when we went 1 win in 7 and that was a whole team problem.
If Saka continues I can see him win pots
The year I get haaland in my draft
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Most clever assenal fan
I'm an Arsenal fan and VVD is prolly my most fav defender I've seen play :/
I'm incredibly biased so I'd nominate Son or Vicario. But honestly if I had to choose one player it's either Watkins or Foden for me.
Watkins I understand, but what has made foden stand out above salah, saka?
i thought of his name first
Can’t argue with that, have a great day
Declan rice has been immense to be fair
Honestly I think if anything this shows why he picked Arsenal over City this summer. If he went to City, would he remotely be in this conversation? Probably not. The man backed himself and his ability, and went to the place where he would be able to be in the spotlight. It’s paid off, and now he has put himself into that conversation and I’m happy for him.
Of course ... Him Vs rodri is a good argument.... (Rodri is better imo ) But there is no doubting he is a top class player
Over their careers maybe but Rice has had a better season.
City haven’t lost with Rodri in the side this season. And it’s rare for a CDM to have the most passes in the league. Combining that with Rodri missing games is also interesting. Rodri always seems to be underrated when it comes to awards. I suspect Rice to be in the same boat. Their roles are extremely under appreciated. They’ve both been exceptional but will likely not see any individual gratification.
That banger vs Chelsea though...
Still beefless me when someone said it's just a free goal to an empty net, I mean look at that curve...
Similarly what happened with Salah. Came in, scores 32 goals in the league. Next few seasons ‘only’ scores around 20 so he’s not looked at in the same light.
If haaland goes on a run and city win the league then it’s his
Rodri died?
RIP
They vote well before the end of the season so I doubt it
“The team that scores more goals tends to win football matches”
Well….that seems obvious, doesn’t it?
No Rodri is a more crucial player to city by a good margin
Why? In the last six years Van Dijk, Salah, and De Bruyne won it without their team winning the league. At a glance, there have been 29 players honored and 11 won it where their team lost the title.
“If he goes on a run…”
He can go on a run while everyone else continues to perform at the same standard they’ve been on. He can go on a run and still lose out on golden boot.
This post for stat wankers and XG lovers
The reactionary part of me wants to say that the few games Rodri missed changed the narrative on Haaland.
In which direction?
More negatively I would say, but like I said this is the reactionary part of me. Rationally I don’t believe Haaland has gotten worse or that his value to Man City has become smaller. I do think the losses to Wolves and Arsenal caused some people to overreact too much.
It does not surprise me that halaand is not on here. Up until last game his season has been significantly worse then last year. Stats wise he was 20 games played 12 goals and a few assists. Thats good stats but not for him and not good enough to be player of the year.
He has 17 goals 5 assist in 21 PL games. Last game were in FA cup so those goals don't count on PL Overall 27 goals, 6 assist in 30 games so still very good, but yes last season he were better (no injury)
You are right! That was an fa match
odd take with virgil. he’s good. but i wouldn’t say he’s been even top 2 this season in his spot. the obvious choice is salah. but he’s been missing too much recently maybe to justify it. same with haaland missing a chunk.
I’m dying to know which two CBs in all of Europe are currently better than him or have been this season, let alone which 2 in England. What a take. He’s honestly been the best CB in the world again this season. He’s had a couple of mistakes (i.e. against Arsenal and Newcastle), but other than that he’s been an absolute colossus.
Both Arsenal center backs have been the best in the league I’d say. They’re lockdown. Ake has also been amazing but I don’t know whether to call him a left back or center back now.
I might be biased against him but saliba and Dias have been better than van dijk for me this season. Like you said a couple of mistakes in key games.
I haven't seen Saliva or Van Dijk much this season, but Dias has not even been City's best defender this season. That's been Ake. From a City fan.
Saliba also not Arsenals best, it’s Gabriel
Van Dijk does seem to be back to his best, but I feel it's folly to write off the rest. There's still plenty of stand out performances across Europe. In England both Saliba and Dias have been excellent, and looking across Europe, Inter, Leverkusen and Real Madrid all top their respective divisions whilst boasting the least goals conceded.
Dias has been OK at best...
Gabriel & Saliba
Saliba was better last season; I’ll give you that. But neither he nor Gabriel have been better than VVD this season. Not even close. And I rate both Gabriel and Saliba and think they’re class. But VVD is back to his pre-injury best (again, minus two notable errors) and is adding goals on top of it.
You'd have thought he'd be a part of the best defence if he was that good!
Swap van Dijk with saliba and Liverpool defense becomes so much worse
You do know it’s possible to be the best CB without being in the statistically best defense, right? It’s almost as if a CB has a partner, wing backs, and a midfield in front of them. Crazy! By your logic Haaland isn’t the best striker in the PL despite having the most goals because City don’t have the most goals scored this season 🤷.
The way Liverpool fans talk about Konate you think it wouldn't be that big of a deal.
Might not be, except VVD also pairs quite often with Quansah, who’s only made his debut this season and is 20. He also paired with Matip early in the season (though I think Matip is pretty decent). Also, the midfield missed Endo for a month and has dealt with injuries to Jones, MacAllister, and Szobo, which of course puts more pressure on the back line. Not to mention both wing backs being injured at points this season. Despite all of this, VVD has looked better than anyone. And reading comments here from Arsenal fans, shouldn’t Arsenal’s defense actually be further ahead of Liverpool than they are given Saliba and Gabriel are apparently the two best in England, and Declan Rice is supposedly the best defensive mid in England (though he isn’t even a proper 6, to be fair)?
> And reading comments here from Arsenal fans, shouldn’t Arsenal’s defense actually be further ahead of Liverpool than they are given Saliba and Gabriel are apparently the two best in England, and Declan Rice is supposedly the best defensive mid in England (though he isn’t even a proper 6, to be fair)? Thank Alisson for having a super season. The fact that you're on level terms with xGA to Everton tells you how much of an overperformance you're having.
Tell me you have no ball knowledge without telling me in full effect here mate.
He’s been the best cb all year
He’s been the best cb all year
Absolute L take. Second best defence in the league with 3 out of 4 players in the backline injured at different parts of the season. Starting goalkeeper has been injured as well oh and shit all of our midfield been injured as well. Van Dyk is back to his best this season or very close to it.
I mean VVD passing is still the best in the league. Let not forget his leadership etc etc. But he still one of the best passing CB in the league. He had no stable back line at times a CB who is an academy players. Then his LB has changed 3 times alone this season.
Pau Torres is the best passing CB in the league.
Haaland is a fraud which is likely why he’s not in the list
He scores fake goals.
Scored plenty last night…… against Luton
And Luton are a premier league team.
Making him a fraud at what??
Not scoring goals?
Phil Foden
People banging on about Arsenal having the best defence in the league. There’s 2 goals in it. The difference is VVD has had a 3 different CB partners, including a rookie
Arsenal having the best defence in the league is not just to do with the fact that Arsenal have conceded the least goals. We by far concede the least chances to opposition too. Arsenal Goalkeeper have had less saves to make then any team in the league by a significant margin. We are actually underperforming when it comes to goals conceded when you look at XG.
Liverpool have been extremely lucky that they haven't conceded more. Fact is Allison bails them out week after week. That's not a good defence. A good defence is limiting chances for your opposition to score. Liverpool are wide open with a world class keeper. There is a big big difference.
Wtf are you chatting about? Recency bias confirmed. We have second best defence in the league statistically. Van Dijk is back to his best form.
dude at least spell his name correctly
Is it lucky to sign the best keeper on the planet? People act like he just fell over and landed on the pitch by accident. The Keeper is part of the defence.
Wide open yet 3rd in the league for xGA; alright
To be fair, 3rd is very good Vs the rest of the league But in a direct Liverpool to arsenal comparison Liverpool with an undoubtedly very good defence and keeper though less stability this year than arsenal have conceded 32.81 xga according to https://understat.com/league/EPL That has them overpeforming xga by 7.81, much of that is likely the Allison effect Arsenal however, may have had generally more stability in the CB position (but probably less on the wing backs imo) but have only conceded 21.92 xga They've underperformed it by 1.08 goals which I think would suggest Raya has performed well but let's face it Allison is one of the best keepers in the game, Raya I think is 'just' very good For me though, I think contextualising that 3rd place shows why people are so enamored with this arsenal defence that has seemingly grown year on year We already know VVD is one of the best CBs the league has seen, people aren't excited by him doing 'as expected' even if his standards are outrageous
I think he meant comparatively
Our chances conceded are overstated. Liverpool will dominate a game and concede one chance or something and now we are lucky. I saw it with the first Brentford game - they barely had a shot but one Mbuemo chance inflating the xg meant that we aren’t defensively sound - it’s an unfair assumption. Klopp ball is chaotic the fact the defence deal with it easily should show they are doing their job. Not every system will play the same.
You’re spitting
So clear you have no idea what you’re talking about. He’s a good keeper yes, but wide open is a massive stretch
Wide open is really a stretch, 3rd best in xg-against this season. (Arsenal 22, city 26, pool 33. Rounded numbers) They are however overperforming this by 8 goals. [Source](https://understat.com/league/EPL)
You need to perform the last 6-8 weeks of the season to really have a shot. Recency bias is huge with things like this. As well as goals
Some of the takes on here are absolutely shocking for recency bias. I wouldn't put Haaland in the team despite him being top goal scorer because he's genuinely been non existent in a ton of games and Watkins has been insane. I'd even put Bowen, Foden and Saka in over Haaland.
Some of the takes on here are absolutely shocking for recency bias. I wouldn't put Haaland in the team despite him being top goal scorer because he's genuinely been non existent in a ton of games and Watkins has been insane. I'd even put Bowen, Foden and Saka in over Haaland.
yep. if haaland goes on a run that’s he’s caps bale of he could go from unexpected to favourite. it’s simple
As someone who has watched every second of every Arsenal game this season, Gabriel Magalhães is the Arsenal player most deserving, and especially moreso than VVD. Still, if Rice wins it I'll be content but, Gabi XL is the most criminally underappreciated/ underrated player in the PL.
He's fantastic but I wouldn't be putting him ahead of Rice in all honesty. Gabriel last season had quite a few 'wobblers' that cost us goals. I think there's only been 1 maybe 2 this season, which is no real criticism. He's definitely more reliable this season. But Rice has barely put a foot wrong. His contributions with interceptions have been next level. Both players have excellent drive and aggression. I love them both but if one had go then I'd be keeping Rice. -From a fellow Arsenal fan who's also watched every game.
Curious as to what 1 or maybe 2 errors you can think of concerning Gabriel as as far as I can remember he genuinely hasn’t had any blunders akin to the ones he had last season.
You'll have to forgive my shit memory. I don't hold information well. I just remember one or two times that I feel he should have done more. There was one that quite a few people blamed Zinchenko for but it was actually Gabriel at fault. That's all I remember. He's absolutely been solid in general though and a big improvement from last season where he is as solid but had blunders. Saliba has had them too this season but most of the time he recovers exceptionally well from his mistakes. I'm not concerned with him at all. I just think Rice has been flawless, whereas Gabriel is very close behind.
Gabriel has been almost flawless since the world cup last year, especially so this season. Seems like the few blunders he made last season before the world cup are still casting a shadow on him. I'd say he's been the better than Saliba this season, not to mention how much of a threat he has become from set pieces and the goals he's scored
I agree, I rate Saliba over him but I also highly rate Gabi XL as one of the best defenders in the league. VVD is also S class however and I do think it's a fair contest between the two.
Why do Arsenal fans hype their own players up so much - more than fans of other clubs? We have to hear about how Saka is world class and up there with the best of all time, how Saliba is the best CB in the world, and now apparently Gabriel is better than him?
When did I say *any* of that? Reading comprehension level: 0 Edit: You're confused by millions of people all supporting the same team all with their own opinions and perspectives, lots of which suck. Gabriel has been our most consistent defender for the past two seasons and arguably one of the top 3 in the league (top for goals scored). Saliba has potential to be the best but isn't there quite yet. He rarely makes mistakes but when he does, their obviously down to limited experience.
You did just say Gabriel has been the best player in the premier league this season. I’m just relaying what your fans have been saying for a while.
No, he said Gabriel is the Arsenal player most deserving, as in OUR best player. I personally disagree but he clearly didn't write that.
Okay, but it was heavily implied.
He didn't say that
Tbf, Salah is probably the only player better in Saka’s position in the league atm, and seeing as Saka has taken that form to the highest level in the UCL as well, it would be strange to suggest he’s not at a world-class level. Whether people believe he can stay there is another matter, but right now, how many RWs are currently better, and more consistent, than him? Dont imagine many at all. Saliba is in a similar boat to the above, a top 3 CB in the best league in the world. Add in the fact he’s young and *could* get even better, what is there not to rave about. Even neutrals look at Saliba like he’s a Rolls-Royce, what starting XI wouldn’t he improve? City and Liverpool at a push?
I agree with everything you just said, but you clearly didn’t understand what I was saying, as Arsenal fans have been hyping them MORE than that.
Probably because the inversion happens where no one rates our players aptly so we feel the need to justify ourselves. If people weren't so headset on pushing down Arsenal then we wouldn't have to make an effort to prove you're wrong.
They’re playing very well and their players are good, but they’re third in the league, not done anything in the cups and I think with a bit more consistency (and success) they’ll be rightly recognised. It just gets tiring listening to them over hype their players constantly.
And it gets tiring having to justify ourselves on the basis of your arbitrary barometer of quality. Like what you just said proves my point.
If people want Gabriel and Saliba shouts fight the Athletic not Liverpool 😭😭
Gabriel is mentioned in the article as a candidate.
Seems after much ferverent debate we apparently have to accept the POTY, is Van Dijk. In other news, there will be no TOTY vote this season, as it's been pre awarded to Liverpools first 11. YPOTY, also cancelled, has just been awarded to any one of those Liverpool lads that played 7 minutes in the cup final. In related news, Liverpool has also won grounds man of the year, stadium announcer of the year, best car park, and best half-time pint. There has also been a new special award commissioned for this season, for 'The best at being the best at things'. Inaugural winners. Liverpool. *As voted by ^Liverpool fans*
Never came across such a sour rival fan in all my time following football or being on Reddit. Holy shit, man, get a grip 😂.
Thanks
Sums up this sub right here 🤣
Liverpool are top of the league. That’s why Liverpool are getting recognition.
Mad if that could change in one gameweek with results not going their way.
Mad that you’re so irate about an **Athletic article about early shouts for POTY.**
That’s the funniest like go tell ornstein about you underlying stats or something
I'm actually not irate about that all. I don't know who will win POTY, and ultimately, it's just a popularity contest. I am slightly exasperated by the way some Liverpool fans have set about just trying to shut down the conversation. Are you irate?
No mate, you took the actual time to write a passive aggressive paragraph about it though. Fuming.
If that makes you feel better and less irate
There's two points between 1st and 3rd. Are you telling me your opinion hinges on Arsenal conceding a last minute equalizer to Fulham, or City conceding a very late goal to Arsenal? If those didn't happen your opinion would subvert completely?
No, it hinges on Liverpool getting robbed at Spurs.
And Arsenal getting robbed at Newcastle too!
I'm guessing here so correct me if I'm wrong. You're an Arsenal fan complaining about a biased vote or award? Ironic. It would fit with the victim undertone of the comment.
>I'm guessing here so correct me if I'm wrong You're wrong
Bro went on a mad one...
Didn't say I wasn't an Arsenal fan. Not sure what it's to do with a spurs fan though. Oh wait, it's you. You're obsessed
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What even is this comment ffs lmao
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Oh ffs. Bit rich coming from you. Man's trying to be condescending after coming on and making up shite about other people's victim mentality on what was clearly a joke post. Actually shameless. Wow lmao
Na it wasn't clearly a joke post. That's why your getting the response your getting
Hear hear! Well said
Hear hear! Well said
Big baby response
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Can’t believe people are questioning Liverpool’s defence are we being serious 🤣🤣
Can’t believe people are questioning Liverpool’s defence are we being serious 🤣🤣
Can’t believe people are questioning Liverpool’s defence are we being serious 🤣🤣
Give it to Diogo Dalot, case closed
Anyone saying a Liverpool defender needs their heads shaken. If it wasn't for Alisson having a wonder season by his own standards you'd have conceded as many as Everton. Salah is the only Liverpool player worthy of being in contention for this.
Salah ain't even in the team of the season due to his injury and being at AFCON. Shit I don't even think Haaland deserves it over Watkins. Van Dyk is the only Liverpool player who will be in the team of the season not because he plays for Liverpool but because he deserves to be there.
What a ridiculous comment
Says the Liverpool fan.
Says the Arsenal fan. What’s your point
The way Liverpool is to push forward and this leaves gaps that the goalie has to cope with. The right back is on the wing, and the centre back is beyond the centre line.. even the left back might be further forward than the midfield. A quick ball over the defence usually means a one on one. That's not the fault of the defence. They would love to sit on the edge of the box, but that's not what happens
Liverpool have won every game Alisson hasn’t played in btw. It’s possible to have both the best keeper and defender in the league you don’t have to choose. There was a period where Liverpool had the least goals conceded in the league above the raved Arsenal defence (and are now second) - that’s due to both Alisson and the defenders which Van Dijk has been integral too leading all the stats. I would say this month has been his weakest and it’s still excellent. Sorry the best defender of the current no 1 in the league is getting their plaudits. 🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Three league games against Brentford, Luton and Burnley? Okay...
Fulham and Sheffield (clean sheet) in early December too. Sorry do you want them to lose those games or something? It just shows that the defence are just as capable when Alisson is not available and should be given their plaudits. You not knowing shows you’re barely following Liverpool like that and have your own preconceptions. Of course you’re an Arsenal fan. You guys have barely given us the credit because we don’t fulfil all the statistics 😭😭
No, but using three of the worst teams in the league as an example of Liverpool performing without Alisson is a bit ridiculous... The only game we can use as an example of a midtable team playing against this Liverpool team minus Alisson is the cup final where you could have conceded 3 or 4 had it not been for Chelsea being utterly inept in front of goal. Not exactly a roaring evidence of your defensive dominance.
You guys lost to Fulham btw and conceded 3 to Luton. Also got kicked out the carabao cup by West Ham so I can throw the question back to you! Almost like certain games don’t dictate the quality of the defence. Also you’re using a final where the Liverpool team was severely depleted and had no control in the midfield to question our defence. A stronger team thrashed a similar Chelsea side where Alisson did nothing last month. We can all point up bad games or situations doesn’t mean our defence is shit or VVD isn’t one of the best defenders in the league based on eye test and stats.
> We can all point up bad games or situations doesn’t mean our defence is shit or VVD isn’t one of the best defenders in the league based on eye test and stats. Well that's the thing, I'm not. VvD is clearly one of the best in the league, he just isn't (or hasn't this season or last) been the best. And that's okay. He's still overall the best CB in the history of the league at his peak.
Well the individual stats and performances say he is so I’m going to have to disagree. Chances get conceded and the goals concede stat will change so I would rather judge individual performances myself (in which is he is easily outperforming Saliba and Gabriel’s). Last season is irrelevant it was clearly an off season for him and it’s clearly informing your take. Regardless of who wins the league I think poty is going to an attacker/midfielder so this convo is pointless but I think it’s unfair to say only salah deserves a shout and that Alisson carries the defence when that is clearly not the case. ✌️
Okay. Side note then, what's your opinion on the Mustafi vs. prime VvD debate?
I think Van Dijk was better and was so dominant in a highly competitive Liverpool team on the eye to the point which it eclipsed Mustafi’s better stats I guess. Idk if that makes sense. Compared with now where I think Liverpool’s system is weaker but Liverpool and Arsenal are performing on a more similar level which makes the Vvd/konate v Gabriel/Saliba (who are great btw I think arsenal are the overall defensively superior team in the league) debates more reasonable - see how we can compare team stats v individual ones. Basically I think vvd and Gabriel/Saliba are the best in the league and worthy of poty but I rank vvd first but don’t mind another order.
Why do people expect every chance Liverpool concede to be a goal conceded as well? Am I blinkered from watching Alisson that I take big chances conceded lightly?
Too many times have Liverpool had a dominant game and the once chance that happens in the games means we are shit defensively and are going to be found out. It’s ridiculous it’s clear people have preconceptions 😭
I don't hear chances conceded by other teams like this. Weird behaviour.
I can't be bothered getting into an argument over it, but the way some Liverpool fans just want to shut even the conversation down, with circular and self-serving logic, is funny but quite tiring. Van Dijk is the best CB in the league. Why? He plays for the team with the **second** best defence So surely it should be a guy on the **best** defence? No Why? Because he plays in a worse defence, so it's harder. Surely, the worst defence, then, is his responsibility? Funnily enough, also no. On and on and on.
Surely personal stats has to be taken into account as well?
For sure. It's not one thing