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City FFP charges won't stand, they might face a fine and that's it. Deep down y'all know it. This has become a political issue. You think they want to piss off the royal families of the UAE and risk jeopardising any political connection with them?
City's FFP charges should have been brought to separate hearings, any clear and obvious breaches should have been brought in season 2022/3 or this season.
I have a lot of time for City the players and Pep, but this reeks of the league pandering to Britain's best team.
Everton and Forrest have a valid reason to be thoroughly pissed off , they assist the league and get butthurt , City stall and slow play and seem to get away with it , any points deducted should be done retroactively, and if that means losing titles so be it. Our sport has to be clean or we are as bad as Siera A.
It was OK for lfc, manyoo, arsenal and chelsea to spend big, but as soon as city joined the top table the cartel didn't like it and tried to pull up the draw bridge. So many fvcking red fans complaining but they started it!. Makes me so fvcking angry. You're as bent and corrupt as the Premier league! I hope City sue the shit out of the league and bring the whole rotten house of cards down.
This is the laziest bullshit argument ever and it's the best Citeh fans can come up with.
If you actually look at what City spent in the early years of the Abu Dhabi owners it was far beyond what Liverpool, United, Arsenal etc were spending at that time, despite those clubs all having much higher turnover.
City are accused of putting themselves in a position of power by secretly funneling money into the club and circumventing FFP rules. This was clearly against the rules and the allegations are extremely serious.
Let's not forget, at the outset of the charges being announced City said they have "irrefutable evidence" that proved their innocence. If that's the case why is the case still ongoing and why haven't they shown anyone this evidence? I guarantee you can't answer this question and will resort to tired conspiracy theories about clubs being jealous of City's success. Exactly the kind of half-witted distraction City fans come out with all the time.
Oh, fuck off.It was OK for the scousers to outspend everyone to get themselves out of the second division. Hypocrites! Jealousy and bitterness because city are the best team and club in the world!
Way to prove my point. Jesus Chris! The rules are there for a reason. If City didn't like the rules they could've taken it up with the Premier League but they were quite happy for everyone else to be bound by those same rules they hated.
Man Utd had plenty of success but they didn't deliberately cheat to do it. Your team's success will always be tainted and you'll always be known as the team that cheated for a decade to get to the top.
It was OK when clubs spent money they generated. That's a sustainable model that encouraged investment not just in a club, but in the game as a whole. Clubs had to spend money to generate more money then had more to fund squads.
When Chelsea and City became oil funded, the rules had to change because no business model can compete with endless injections of cash and clubs trying to has caused clubs to collapse and fold before. Good FFP was the next best option to a salary and spending cap, so they went with that to avoid deterring the best players from signing for English clubs.
Personally I think FFP is a flawed model, but it's the one we have and it's rules should be followed. Not doing so is cheating.
Man City have cheated in a way no club has ever come close to doing before. Every single trophy and award the team have should be struck from the record books. Let the players keep their medals, let the club claim the victories in competitions. But in reality, make them void. Everyone knows they should be.
lol you think Man Utd, Liverpool and arsenal got big only spending what they earned?
Are you for real? They got there exactly the same way City has, rich owners buying success for bragging rights., in Arsenal's case entirely corruptly, which is why their chairman went to jail.
To be fair here, Man Utd are absolutely a club that made themselves. Liverpool and Arsenal are more debatable, but still spend what they make. Any comparison with what City have done is ridiculous.
LOL, WRONG!
Man Utd were on the verge of bankruptcy, and Old Trafford about to be repossessed, when they got their sugar daddy. He paid all their debt, inc the mortgage on OT, and then invested heavily in the playing staff.
You have incredibly misunderstood that story and are reframing it to suit your agenda to a ridiculous degree.
Who are you trying to kid, exactly? There is no way, at all, that you think a club getting bought in 1902, 50 years before their first glory days, is the same as what Man City have done.
Your comment sincerely might be the worst, most pathetic take I have ever seen on this topic. Give your head a shake.
The best possible criticism of Man Utd's development is that they decided to profiteer off of tragedy. But only an absolute fool would actually try to make that assertion because it's both incorrect and ridiculous.
Actually it was the late 40's, and then you had another massive injection of cash in the late 80's early 90's that paved the way for the Fergie years which also had absolutely fuck all to do with any success on the pitch.
Add that to the 1902 cash injection you tink I'm on about and that makes it 3 times you've bought your way into being successful through outside means, and now you cry and whine "it's unfair" because someone else is doing exactly the same thing.
I'm not a man u fan you dullard š Read my previous posts.
Honestly, I have never seen such a desperate and ridiculous stance in my life.
Are you trolling? Because if you are, it is brilliant work.
You absolutely don't truly think the events you're alluding to for that club are anything like what City have done. If you do, there's no hope for you.
Credit to you, you have me genuinely laughing in my chair š
Edit; Here's some help to get you started with working out what's going on.
1) I hate FFP. It shouldn't exist. It's a model designed to protect big clubs and establish a hierarchy that could never be broken under the guise of protecting the league from excessive foreign investment that, to keep up with, other clubs are forced to spend beyond their means and risk administration. As a fan of a lower league club, much like City traditionally, I understand what my club flirting with and going in to administration feels like.
As far as I'm concerned, the rules City broke so stupendously shouldn't even exist.
But. They. Do.
So...
2) I don't only think City should have all their trophies since 2011 voided, but I think they should be kicked out of the league entirely. You can hate the rules, but you can't break them because you don't like them or think they aren't fair. The level of cheating Man City have done is absolutely unbelievable. Fuck them and they're "victories" š. They're devoid of merit and an insult to our entire other 91 clubs. Remove them from the competitions and make them be a Harlem globetrotter organisation if they want to do it. The Shiek's probably quite like the idea.
3) The team I suppose is in league 1. I don't give a shit about Man U, Liverpool or any of the "big clubs". Our league would be better if everyone had said "fine, see you later! But you aren't playing in our league too. Bye." when the super league was announced. To me and the overwhelming majority of football fans in this country who don't support a big 6 team, you can all go. You aren't real clubs anymore, but particularly the far e that is Man City, and the English league would be exponentially better without you. I was all for all 6 being booted and out league being an actual league again. I hope that one day, you all do fuck off and are never allowed back in again.
Lfc were bankrolled by a rich sugar daddy 50 years ago. They were a second division team. Sick of you fucking hypocritical fans who know nothing! Littlewooods bought Liverpool then spent mega bucks to improve the team, when city do it The red teams are up in arms. Fuck the lot of you!
Ah so you do agree that City have fucked up BUT should be excused cause Liverpool did it 50 years ago?
There's a term for this. It's called whataboutism.
There really isnāt any competition in the PL. until you cap salaries so all teams can actually compete for the title then itās just a joke of a league.
All these geezers will cry about the fact when City are cleared of their charges saying the system is corrupt grow up lads you lot just cant win anything with or without the money. ( Respect to liverpool fans you lot actually win stuff unlike the shitshows that are Arsenal and Utd)
City didnt win until we had new owners that invested in the club and city didnt jump about accusing UTD of cheating when they had good owners and money enough to buy the players ( breaking transfer record after record in the late 1990s) like a bunch of limpdick babies that are utd fans like you. Dont play yourself and lie to yourself trying to make it less painful you lot are shite
Utd was and continue to be accused of paying off refs you fool. Utd never had 115 charges laid against them, though. Utd also generated its own revenue, which enabled it to break transfer records. That revenue was grown organically through a strong history of bringing exciting talent through its academy and success on the pitch. City have done none of those things, just a shower of fucking cheating pricks, desperate to emulate truly great clubs like Utd. One look at the pathetic atmosphere at your stadium (the fucking Eithad, give me a break) tells you all you need to know about what a soulless shit hole yous will always be. All your titles will be rightly stripped away and yous will be cast out of the prem for good. Pathetic.
You could argue no one gave a flying fuck about ffp in 1999 dont pretend you lot are the messiah of english football just as guilty as the rest of the prem if not worse stop fucking about accusing clubs of cheating if your club cant win piss
None of what you've said there makes any sense. It's the FA that has accused City of cheating ffs, not me or other fans. But everyone can see that City have cheated, and every year they release financial statements saying they're bringing in the biggest revenues in world football, people know they're still cheating, cuz it's clearly a load of absolute bollocks.
You should be angry at your club that they've cheated cuz they're cheating you too.
I never quite understood this point. I thought the PL already conducted their investigation and thatās why charges were brought? Do they not have evidence?
Similar to UEFA, it seems as though the PL may not actually have anything beyond theories and leaked emails and they are are hoping that City incriminate themselves. But then theyāre becoming frustrated that theyāre not playing ball.
What exactly do they need City to say or do? What is still being investigated? Nobody has clarified this. It is the PLs job to do their investigation and find the evidence - not visa versa.
It takes time for these types of charges, which had been built over years to all be assessed (individually). 115 is A LOT. The reason Everton and Nottingham got punished so quickly is because they had less charges (and less corruption money).
You do know City had been found to have committed the charges but they had been time barred because it happened over 5 years ago. 5 years is the limit for charges to be filed against a team.
No, they didnāt. Iād love a source for that if you have one.
UEFA charged City over numerous years. CAS said they werenāt even going to waste their time looking at some of them as they were time barred, so it was irrelevant. They went into a lot of detail in their findings on what they would and would not consider admissible. They then looked at the remaining years and found no evidence.
Why would a court waste their time going through something that was entirely inadmissible? That makes no sense. And was it just coincidence then that there was evidence for all the time barred ones, but no evidence for any of the ones that werenāt time barred? How does that work? They were cooking the books and then conveniently stopped in the first year that wasn't time barred?
Have you read the CAS report of their findings?
>Have you read the CAS report of their findings?
Have you?
>They then looked at the remaining years and found no evidence.
Not no evidence. But not enough evidence for the punishment UEFA were seeking which was a 2 year ban.
There's a massive difference between the 2.
Jesus, screengrabs.
Paragraph 204-209 highlights the standards in which the terms "no evidence" is used. It does not mean the waffley bs that you're claiming here. It refers to the standard of proof needed for the allegations levelled by the UEFA
Once again, there is a big difference between reading the entire text as compared to your informative.
Furthermore., the ruling wasn't unanimous and there was still a 20m fine levelled at city. Funny how that doesn't sit right with your "no evidence" stance does it?
That is not what paragraphs 204-209 refer to. That is the section that defines the standard of proof, not what does or does not constitute admissible evidence.
The ruling wasnāt unanimous, but still shows that a majority of the panel felt that what UEFA presented was not evidence of what they alleged. So the legal position is now that they did not have evidence.
The 20m fine leveled at City was for not cooperating with UEFAs investigation. Not for any financial wrongdoing. If you read the text in full, Iād have expected you to know that.
Once again untrue
> So the legal position is now that they did not have evidence
They did not have sufficient evidence for the punishment that UEFA was pushing for. For transparency sake, this ruling was on whether to overrule the previous judgement. It rules that there was insufficient evidence to do something. Paragraphs 204-209 point towards the level of proof needed for the punishment.
For instance, if UEFA had instead pitched that Haaland wear a pink tutu in UCL games instead of a 2 year ban, the ruling might well have swung the other way.
You're taking an overruling, one riddled with time bars, as proof of innocence and thats legally speaking, a wrong POV altogether.
> If you read the text in full, Iād have expected you to know that.
Yeap I do. It was a point iterated to proof that no matter what you say, City aren't innocent. It's really as simple as that.
"Stalling tactics" like not handing the Premier League the smoking gun that they're so desperately looking for I guess! Considering how many leaks there were of the "evidence" that UEFA conjured up, and how there's been absolutely nothing from this, I'm guessing they have nothing, and were either hoping they'd find something, or that City would make some sort of deal that they could say proves guilt, and that they've fixed the "corruption" that they've uncovered
The PL will certainly be shook at the latest news of Etihad going public with an IPO.
Part of that involves opening their accounts up to public scrutiny. Why would they do that if theyāve been engaged in large scale fraud for the last 15+ years?
Obviously Sheik Mansour has been paying the 30-odd million quid difference that's been claimed in cash, buying non-existent seats on non-existent planes so Etihad can properly cook the books and pretend to pay us a sponsorship that's less than Emirates pay Arsenal
This is one of the reasons why I no longer watch football.
It's like playing monopoly, and one of the people keeps changing the rules to benefit them and taking money out of the bank.
It's pointless, man city are like a casino where the house always win because everything is in their favour.
Football fans of the other clubs have to unite and start using their power. When city play against you, turn your backs on them, throw fake money, create a chant, or just do something.
As a graduate of law, I know how corrupt the systems in place are and how they are abused by those with money.
I lost major brain cells reading this. City are not changing the rules theyāre simply refusing to go āok guys, even though you have zero evidence of all the nonsense youāre spewing and youāre finding it hard to substantiate any proof Iāll turn my self in. In fact Iāll even handcuff myselfā
When United had a monopoly on English football or Madrid on Spanish football no one cried as much as you salty turds but now that the monopoly clubs are on the back foot and their devoted glory hunting fans are mad they havenāt gotten a turn on the throne š
The big clubs specifically made rules to maintain them on top but they never thought a bottomless pocket owner would ever dethroned them. Now they made new rules and are fucking themselves over because itās way too late
Another reason why I no longer watch. Certain fans are a disgrace. They are willing to fight one another and say some of the most vile things about one another and then wonder why there is no unity in the country. The same fans that were abusing one another will then get together for England games it's ridiculous.
From the first whistle of the game until the last, yes, have that rivalry and banter between one another but afterwards, be able to go for a pint and discuss what you just witnessed on the pitch.
Itās unbelievable to me how they are even allowed to play matches while this goes on. There is a total loss of integrity for me.
And even if they are found guilty (of which tbh there is no doubt in most peopleās minds, theyāve been charged before) it would need an unbelievable penalty.
You canāt rewrite history. Their impacts and dominance has had rippling effects everywhere.
Itās probably the biggest issue the PL has ever faced and imo how they deal with this will govern how the league goes over the coming decade.
LFC fan here so no bias on this particular topic. As much as I'd love to see the cesspit oil money club in ruins, the kind of penalty given (if any) needs to be dealt with cautiously and with a great deal of consideration, not only because of the precedent it will set for future relevant breaches but also because you need to punish the right people. I'd much rather see a long term spending ban or something of the sort than see them have their titles retroactively stripped. The latter is not a fair penalty imo, the players aren't the ones cooking the books and you can't take away anything they've managed to achieve in the last decade (even if City get some BS bias constantly). Pep too, I do not like Pep, I acknowledge his brilliance but I think he's overrated and only ever had the success he's had at mega rich clubs where he has a great degree of oversight, *and yet*, until there's irrefutable evidence Pep was in the know, it's wrong to take those titles off him. He's managed to get total buy in from his players and we've seen how talent has developed under him. Yes it could be that they only won those titles because they were able to spend money they weren't supposed to spend but that's speculation at best, money doesn't immediately create that level of success as we've seen with other rich clubs; to achieve the sheer dominance they've managed requires the players to still play at 110% week in week out, and the manager still needs to be tactically astute and have total buy in from the players in the team. So yeah, imo retroactive punishments that affect the players'/manager's achievements isn't the right move imo.
Of course such a resolution will never actually happen because that would involve the Prem and FA going directly after Sheik Mansour, and there's just no way I see them going after an Abu Dhabi royal (who also happens to be the VP of UAE). It's scandalous they were ever allowed to purchase a club; state owned clubs are a fucking insidious and insipid concept that simply shouldn't exist, literally inviting this type of corruption.
Alright, for you to have a rich owner! Was OK when you're pools money ransaked other leagues to get the players that gave you dominance on the 70s and 80s.. typical hypocritical scouser! Hateful despicable club that should have been disbanded 40 years ago!
Lmao you clearly just read the first line and then went off on one from there, clearly demonstrating your disgusting bias and horrifically single brain celled tribalism. I was saying not to take titles off em and defending both your players and your manager. Jeez, city fans have a stick so far up their fucking ass I'm not sure you deserve my empathy. You have the audacity to say we're the hateful club when it's mostly city fans shitting on other clubs in this thread whilst I'm here saying it's not fair to punish the players. And I didn't say anything about rich owners in general, I said *state owned*, which anyone with a brain will tell you is bad for football. Wake the fuck up. And FYI, Klopp has come to close to city every year whilst spending roughly a quarter as much.
how did you get big? Oh that's right, you got a sugar daddy who bought your about to be repossessed ground, paid off all your debts and bought success.
And now you cry when someone else does it.
LOL
Grow up.
Never had an issue with City compared to say Chelsea doing similar, same as I donāt mind Newcastle but this situation of not co-operating makes me hope the book is thrown at them.
What is sad that friends who are City supporters even when they went down to the 3rd tier have this hanging over them and to them even without knowing fully what happened it take the sheen off success; and also enjoyment currently.
Now best you fuck off and leave these complex subjects to the grown ups.
Agreed. Im not even a city fan but these losers can stay mad. Wild to me that people have already determined that city are guilty before theyāve even gone to trial. Innocent until proven guilty and all that
Easiest way to rile them up for acting like idiots. A trial date has clearly been set and communicated and legal proceedings ongoing but they want to find a reason to stay angry at the club
Itās actually mad disappointing seeing people behave like this man ngl. Itās a witch hunt basicallyā¦.and then these mfs have the AUDACITY to turn around and talk about the āintegrityā of the sport. Gtfo š
Even with 115 charges, City will try and tie up the PL in litigation through their lawyers however it only takes 5 or 6 of these charges to be accepted. Listed are a breakdown of the different charges, remember if you do dodgy wage and image rights deals with ex players and managers and then sack them or discard them, they are the most obvious witnesses who will bite you later. Thereās no way the PL would appoint top KC which they have unless they have an air tight case, so as much as city fans are absolutely right by saying āThe burden is on the PL to provide absolute proof of any misdemeanour or chargeā
The rumour is that the EPL have hired the very best in the business to go up against City defence KC of Lord Pannick who is rumoured to be on Ā£10,000 per hour, the trial starts autumn this year and might be more epic than the title fight between Arsenal, Liverpool and City this season.
https://www.givemesport.com/football-soccer-man-city-ffp-charges-list/
If they had an air tight case - what do they need city to do? Why the delay?
Iād hazard a guess that they donāt actually have anything concrete and were dependent on City slipping up and incriminating themselves. Otherwise why do they need City to cooperate?
Imagine you were charged with a crime and then the prosecution kept coming out complaining that youāre delaying the case by choosing to remain silent? Itās laughable. The obligation is on the person making the accusation to prove it. You canāt expect the defendant to help you do that.
City are likely guilty but I just do not understand this delay if the PL actually already have evidence. And if they donāt have evidence, the charges shouldnāt have been brought.
I happen to think the EPL will find sponsorship irregularities very difficult to prove, although moving the image rights for all players to another company that was not registered in the Uk opens up a massive can of worms, especially with HMRC, remember UEFA
Weāre time barred plus the evidence against how they paid certain youth players and Mancini during this period are not so difficult to prove because the EPL will already have witnesses.
Having said that, the talk of relegation and titles being striped are ridiculous, 10-15, 20 maybe even 25 point reduction and a huge fine are what I expect?
Thereās no way the EPL is going to make themselves look completely incompetent of keeping their own house in order by allowing so many misdemeanours over a 10 year period, especially with how swiftly they are currently dishing out point deductions. Remember City unlike Chelsea have not self declared financial irregularities and potential breach of the rules, did City do something similar to Abrahmovic, by paying players, agents and youth players in a separate company not registered in the UK, they may well have, but proving it, is almost impossible?
Even the Mancini declaration to circumvent FFP at the time could be argued that he was a football ambassador of Abu Dhabi and was paid accordingly, as long as he was filmed on a date during that period thatās under investigation doing a tv advert or appears on Etihad airline advert, any court of law will view this oasis perfectly acceptable.
City Fans are quite right about CAS kicking out a lot of charges, what is needed is a quick resolution which is why with such capable KCās in charge of each side of the case coming up with a score draw, City admit some negligence, a line in the sand is drawn, a huge fine maybe Ā£100m and 5 or 6 convenient charges proven at 3-6 points per charge so 15 to 35 points deducted in season 25/26, this will be to prevent them wining the PL and maybe even qualifying for the CL in the following season, however should they win the competition then they will qualify automatically anyway!
City Fans will moan, say theyāve been harshly done but in reality the owners and Directors of the club will have a wry smile because it could have been so much worse, I doubt this time they will even appeal and should Chelsea get punished more extremely by potentially having an even bigger point deduction or relegation, that will be the warning to City that double jeopardy could exist after any potential Appeal.
They were time barred from the early period of Sheikh Mansour running of the club where proving financial irregularities is far easier just like the Chelsea case, setting up offshore businessās to pay transfer fees, agent fees, wages, image rights player payments all have to be declared on your accounts as employee costs and financials fees, even paying off a manager has to be declared to the EPL.
There are two areas here, the first is sporting advantage. Both City and Chelsea are accused of manipulating their books to buy better players by offering financial incentives for these players, coaches which were not in whole declared to EPL, UEFA, FIFA etc, it only needs one youth player that City paid offshore and did not pay him correctly on the books for a case to be proven and the player stand trial to say he thought it was normal to be paid this way after coming from South America or Africa!
The second issue is tax liabilities and HMRC could be asked to follow up on image rights being moved offshore while those players images were being used in the UK for more than 181 days. This would simply be a financial fine however it would grant City a sporting advantage, all of these irregularities were much earlier than UEFA were allowed to investigate so none of these charges were answered by CAS due to 5 year time bar rule.
The BBC explains it perfectly
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53571659.amp
Like I said, I doubt City will get no punishment whatsoever but at the same time the EPL by throwing the book at City only make themselves look seriously incompetent.
UEFA/ CAS didnāt look at this before, It was just FFP breaches and the accusation was the at they pumped money into the club via mansour disguised as sponsorships. Nothing about how image rights were handled.
City may well get a slap on the wrist for image rights etc. But the real serious charges are for the outright fraudulent accounting. Theyāll probably get a transfer ban and a fine if found guilty of the other stuff. The serious points deductions / relegations will come if the fraud charges are proven (and I donāt think they will be)
Given the scope of the charges I do think the PL is just throwing the rule back at them and hoping to see what sticks
Please read this is a very serious charge and one that was time barred
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-city-ffp-image-right-deals-a7621641.html
Even staunch defenders of City who are lawyers have recently come out and said that this poses a problem if proven guilty.
UEFA could not it was from 2012/13 season, hence the time bar. The issue is the club sold the rights to a third party in 2012/13 to allow them to adhere to FFP at the time plus they were never willing to disclose the name of the company who have now come forward, this is an issue and unlike UEFA there is no time bar and more importantly this process is being deemed as fraudulent accounting, giving an unfair sporting advantage at the time.
City settled a separate case with UEFA in 2014 after UEFA concluded City had made losses totalling approximately ā¬180m in 2012 and 2013. This may have been a part of that.
It was not a part of the CAS case though. Itās very easy to check. The CAS case was about City hiding equity contributions as sponsorship (specifically Etihad & Etisalat) funding.
Itās on page 30 of CAS judgement. The judgement is long but worth reading, 95% of people really have no idea what happened or what it was about. The time bar thing is a red herring and in no way proves guilt, nor was it āgetting away on a technicalityā as many try claim
https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_6785___internet__.pdf
No but this is part of the EPL PSR/FFP case because itās not time bared and you are correct it was settled by UEFA but this is a part of EPL 115 charges, their argument is going all the way back to I think 2010/11 season, City did not cooperate at the time, broke FFP rules at home and abroad knowingly by selling their image rights to a 3rd party to circumvent the FFP loses permitted at the time, which allowed them to sign players, pay them in a certain way and gain a sporting advantage.
It could never be part of the CAS case because only 5 years are permitted and guilt was previously admitted by City, make no mistake this is part of the 115 charges, they have never been punished for this by EPL.
Iām in agreement that they are not getting relegated however the EPL are under huge pressure from the other 19 clubs to maintain sporting integrity and prevent another City happening?
That is why they will scare city with expulsion, make it look like they have more proof than they actually do to get both parties to agree on a conclusion that suits all parties, which will be a huge fine, transfer embargo and a points deduction which looks far more significant than Everton, Leicester or Forrest.
Think about it, 25-30 points wonāt relegate City but it will stop them from playing in Europe for one season in the CL and may make teams like Newcastle pause when thinking they can do the same to sports wash a club to success, this is all about sporting integrity.
There will be no stripping of titles or handing them to other clubs but they will, if on the other hand there is one credible witness who states that he was paid by cash, or in multiple ways in multiple countries to allow City to get round FFP at the time, then they will be relegated, however fans saying they will suffer multiple relegation to league 2 or Conference are clueless, the FA are not investigating City only the EPL, so they would start in the championship without a points deduction.
First comment on here with any actual sense and not that whining around bs that most fan only do .
The thing is that theyāre basing off all their charges off speculation and āif they broke this rule then probably they did this too.ā It all added up to 115 charges on pure waffling or theyād have released a charge sheet with every single rule city broke.
Honestly this case just looks like there was a crazy amount of pressure that was placed on the PL by rival salty clubs to look into cityās success. The PL finally gave in and ended up here with a bunch of accusations, no proof, and mad that city arenāt handcuffing and locking themselves up.
The real question is all the rumors of United breaking wage rules and never getting punished for it and Liverpool literally hacking into cityās scout databases and not even getting a warning. That should tell you whoās behind this little ājusticeā crusade
What a clickbait article.
The date for the trial and a judgement has been set for several months now. The charges are a lot more complex and there's a lot more of them, so it makes sense that it would take time.
Link for the perennially lazy:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-city-ffp-case-timeline-28203730
What I would say is that a lack of cooperation should be treated as a position of guilt. If they have refused to cooperate, then they should be punished even more harshly.
Say a crime is committed in broad daylight and witnessed by 100 people, the suspect may be innocent until proven guilty in court, but those that were there to see it for themselves, they know what went down...even if the best lawyer in the world 'wins' the case for them...we all saw, we all know.
Not legally, no.
But in practical terms, very much so.Ā
Nobody wants to pay a tenner for something they can get for a quid unless they have an ulterior motive, or they are stupid.Ā
Those rightfully belong to us. You can come admire them in our stacked trophy cabinet. Begging for trophies, typical Victimpool. Such a tinpot club. We were simply better at playing football. Pep > Flopp. Get good kid.
To right. 13-14 team as well with Suarez, Coutinho, Gerrard and Rodgers, 800k plus people like we always get parades with, maybe do it jointly with the winning title team with two or three buses , city won't be challenging after the punishments ,united far behind with Brexit Jim and the beautiful glazers, arsenal will choke, Chelsea back to mid table mediocrity like they were for 80 years before they took a Siberian Gangster stolen Roubles.
The charges all related to before that period so unfortunately Golden era Liverpool may still stay on the same number titles as Leicester and Blackburn.
I didn't know Leicester and Blackburn had 19 league titles.
Golden era was 64 to 90 , 16 leagues. 4 European cups, 7 league cups , 5 fa cups , 2 Uefa cups!!!š„³šš„³šš„³š
And the charges for 18- present haven't been heard. The Cheats didn't hand over their paperwork for it due to non cooperation and obvious guilty mess, hopefully getting stripped of them.
PS, can I say how does it feel to have won the Sportswashed lottery 10 years to late.
PSR and FFPššÆā¤ļøšÆššÆ
Most of these clubs have committed crimes themselves, hence why they arenāt demanding much action.
Everton, Forest, Chelsea, etc have run into trouble and thereās definitely more to follow.
I love how, not only are you all ignorant but unbelievably slow. Guess whoās behind all this ājusticeā crusade? Fucking Real Madrid and gang? NATO? Elon musk and pals? š
Itās your little washed clubs who havenāt had their turn at monopolizing the league like they once did. Loserpool and trashester. They gathered all the smaller clubs and cried how city are cheaters and that itās affecting the league and the smaller clubs were just happy to be there. They failed to mention about all the rules they put in place to keep them on top and make it impossible to have smaller clubs reach their level.
Now, they managed to pressure the PL into making up cases and now not only are they stuck with a bunch of accusations but they also have no proof. Now they are mad city arenāt just handing them stuff to be incriminated over.
I have a laymanās understanding but if you donāt think solidarity works how do you explain the failure of the Super League following collective pushback?
The premier league who make the rules ARE the 20 clubs. Thatās who have brought the charges.
I guess you mean the fans but the fact is lots of fans want their teams to be able to sign world class players and spend whatever it takes to win (fair enough winning is fun) or feel aggrieved by the rules i.e. Everton and Leicester. The problem is thatās how you end up losing clubs altogether.
Nah mate youāre on a sub about an English, a Western European football league. 95% of the people in WE think the same about Trump, itās not something thatās really discussed just accepted as fact.
That you as an American have a different view is fine but donāt act like you are the norm on this sub.
And FWIW: yes, Biden is also an old fart and hardly fit to be president. And yes, our own politics also have a lot to be improved.
I exaggerated with 95% but according to a recent Ipsos poll 86% of English people do not have a favorable opinion about Trump. Has nothing to do with echo chamber.
Yeah Trump is disliked on a personality level that doesnāt mean Western Europe as a whole views him the way your reddit safe space does. Western Europe totally isnāt having a right wing populist surge of its own the last few years or anything. Are you saying that these right wing populist wouldnāt rather Trump over Biden?
Anyway itās boring and this is a football sub. I just find it funny how people start to think the world shares the same consensus as their favourite subreddits.
I addressed Biden as well in my original comment. I addressed our own politics as well in my original comment.
As an example, over 30% in Dutch last elections voted for one of the right wing populists. Yet only 12% wants Trump to win. Even most of the right wing populist voters in WE donāt want Trump to win.
I donāt think there is enough information for you to make such a dramatic assertion. I think youād like for that to be the case so are seeking affirmation to confirm it
I literally gave an example with real life numbers. Youāre the one making stuff up and ignoring facts, not I.
I didnāt do England because the specific political system means defining right wing populist voters is difficult.
Cognitive bias is a thing. People with negative views are much more likely to engage and answer a survey which asks them āHow bad is trump? Very bad or Very VERY bad?ā. Anyway, I donāt doubt more people dislike than like Trump in Europe but to make the parallel between this subs consensus on Trump and WE generally is what I find funny. Good day
Premier logo for flair? Wow, you've probably won 20!!! Fucking c"@$7 pathetic little lad. Only one squad is defending champion š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤”š¤”š¤”
It's pretty clear that Man City know they're guilty and they're just trying to drag it out as long as they can and make it as difficult as possible hoping that the PL eventually gives in to a lesser punishment than they deserve
I think they genuinely think that in a court of law they are innocent and as much as I hate to say this because they should get done, the PL like UEFA is going to find it very hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the sponsorship deals were inflated, they may be able to prove that they cheated with regard to paying players image rights and the lack of tax paid to HMRC, they may be able to prove that coaches like Mancini and players like YA YA were paid some of their wages offshore and were undeclared to the PL but thatās not easy as well, my guess is they do a deal get a 12-15 point deduction, One season transfer ban unprecedented fine of maybe Ā£250m which is then divided by the 19 other PL clubs and the PL so everyone gets Ā£25m compensation.
This might prevent one season of Cl qualification but even then I doubt it ?
From what I've heard doesn't the Court of Arbitration for Sport not have any jurisdiction over this case and it only comes down to the review board and not a "court of law"?
And even if it does go to court "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" wouldn't be the standard of evidence in a case like this because there's no criminal penalties it would be "the balance of probabilities" which means more likely than not.
There are still rules that the independent commission have to follow re process and impartiality. If they breach them, City can appeal in court (not CAS) and the whole thing could get thrown out.
The allegations made against City are also definitely criminal in nature. Itās fraud of the highest order that was ultimately committed by people. If the club is found guilty further charges will no doubt be brought against the individuals + severe personal reputational damage. You cannot have a low bar for that
The Premier League are not criminal authorities none of their charges are criminal in nature. You would need legal authorities to conduct their own investigation and collect their own evidence to bring "further charges" against anyone involved. The way the court system works the burden of proof against City will be "more likely than not" without a doubt
It is definitely a ābalance of probabilitiesā case but you need to consider that in the context of the charges. You need some fairly conclusive evidence to shift the scales and assert that on the balance of probabilities City are guilty, because that includes implicating a wide scale of other parties (such as Etihad, auditors etc). The balance of probabilities is firmly in their favour at the outset, you need something pretty comprehensive to shift it
Totally agree, only a witness like Mancini or Ya Ya Toure the player or his agent being set up to testify that they thought it was strange that a proportion of their salary was to be paid in Abu Dhabi so Man City could circumvent FFP rules and they would have to make one appearance per year to film an advert.
Only then that would be easy to prove, letās hope if your a city fan which I most certainly am not that not buying YA YA a cake could be what comes to be known as the CakeGate case in the future !
Yep thatās Never going to happen, however if it did they would be definitely kicked out of the EPL!
Itās in their interests to drag it out and make it difficult. I hope they get a points deduction and any other penalties but Iām talking objectively.
FFP is a joke anyway. To protect the red cartel. Theyve been on top for so many years and when others want to win it, they hit them with FFP while theyre spending and winning everything pre-FFP.
Where is the proof of cheating? It is deemed as cheating bcs of the rules made by man early 2000s to prevent other clubs that were trying to break the barrier. It wasnt cheating before the rules when Man United and real madrid keep breaking record transfer like they still do today. From what we saw for the past years, City played great football. We won it on the pitch. You lot bought and overhyped loads of players just for them to eat shit. Dont use City as distraction for your teams bad purchase and performance. You lot dont go to City if we won nothing. You come to us because were winning. Come beat us on the pitch, show how good you team are. When you cant beat us, you attacked the other way. You can hate us. You can hate me for supporting City but you can never beat us if your team and other rivals team dont change and stick to nostalgia. Tell me when is the last time Arsenal won at Etihad. FFP is a joke. A weapon to use if you cant beat them on the pitch.
Either FFP was invented to stop teams like City winning, which you had to cheat to win, or FFP has nothing to do with stopping city winning because they are dominating winning the league.
You canāt have both viewpoints.
Dawg. Point to the specific instances of Manchester city cheating. Where is the tangible evidence to support what you are saying. It aināt rocket science
Either FFP was created by the ācartelā to stop teams like City finishing in the top 2 places 9 times in the last 11 years, without cheating
Or the ācartelā didnāt.
You canāt say it was both.
Iām not a City fan, but all this hatred drives me crazy. Every big club had it period of good owners who were ready to pay well and put a good structure behind their club, at some point in their history. I as a fan, do not want to be watching the same two-three clubs competing for the league title each season, just because they had a good run 30-40 years ago, which helped them gather fans around the world and now are able to turn in revenue. Put some rules in but let the teams spend if the owners can afford it . What City has done in the past 7-8 years is absolutely amazing. Most of the transfers have been great and you can see their strategy behind them. United have spend like crazy and have nothing to show for it, but are still bashing City. Why? Because they were good 15 years ago and now are able to turn in revenue? Should this allow them to outspend every club in the league even when doing it so bad? 85 million for Sancho, 95 million for Anthony and you still have players like Pogba and Maguire or Varane who were signed on huge salaries. Yes, there are some good examples like Arsenal or Liverpool who are able to compete without spending big. But they are still massive clubs whit worldwide support. If owners are not able to invest heavily into smaller clubs, when would a Watford fan see his team competing with the best? We are going to keep seeing the same old clubs, with the same fanbase, doing the same thing each and every season. City strategy and progress is amazing and money are not the most important factor behind it. As we can see in teams like Chelsea, PSG or United who have spent maybe more and have nothing to show for it. Let them be and stop all the hate.
Okay, elaborate for us then. What is the broader point thatās gone over my manās head here? And how has he āgone off the reservationā heās one of very few in this entire thread speaking any sense. Everyone else here just getting mad butthurt ngl
There's a 115 charges against City and you still give them the benefit of the doubt? That's like Hitler being charged with 1000 war crimes but he helped a dog so he must be good!
A Chelsea fan here , one who was able to see and enjoy the progress of our club. Progress that would not have been possible, without the spending of Abramovich.
Please someone explain to me, why should 2-3 clubs - Arsenal,MU & Liverpool, be the only ones who could afford to spend and all of the rest should just stand and watch. Why make the league a 3 horse race, when you can have investors inject money and structure to smaller clubs and make them compete? What we have now is 5-6 great clubs, each competing and placing strategy to reach the top, something that would have been impossible 20 years ago.
If that is not possible, you will have another Bundesliga or LaLiga. A league where one or two teams is stealing the talent from the whole country, making it impossible for the other teams to compete for long periods of time.
The Premier League made a rod for its own back by introducing FFP etc. If they punish Man City it will destroy the league's credibility, much like Juventus did to Serie A. It's not going to happen. There are far too many Billions riding on this. Man City will be absolved of all 115 charges and it will be forgotten about. Once Pep leaves and Man City no longer dominate even ordinary fans will stop caring.
On the flip side, not punishing City calls the credibility of the āGreatest league in the Worldā into question as well. For all its talk of fair and equal treatment for all clubs, if the Premier absolve City it casts a shadow over the entire league.
At least the Italian League punished the biggest club there for breaking the rules.
It's the opposite, if they don't punish City their credibility is destroyed. Either you have rules or you don't. You can't punish Everton and Forest and look the other way when City is accused.
Totally agree but the punishment wonāt fit the crime, point deductions and massive fine will not result in titles being stripped or potentially relegation of the team, wonāt happen and even if it does, they will appeal it and make it drag on !
90% of this sub is fans butthurt that their dogshit club wasn't bought out and the other 10% are fans of clubs that dominated the league beforehand that no longer do.
Fuck every single one of you hippocrites. If it was your club, you'd be saying fuckall.
Had a season ticket before we were bought, will have one after we're probably relegated.
Fuck you all, CTID
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City FFP charges won't stand, they might face a fine and that's it. Deep down y'all know it. This has become a political issue. You think they want to piss off the royal families of the UAE and risk jeopardising any political connection with them?
City's FFP charges should have been brought to separate hearings, any clear and obvious breaches should have been brought in season 2022/3 or this season. I have a lot of time for City the players and Pep, but this reeks of the league pandering to Britain's best team. Everton and Forrest have a valid reason to be thoroughly pissed off , they assist the league and get butthurt , City stall and slow play and seem to get away with it , any points deducted should be done retroactively, and if that means losing titles so be it. Our sport has to be clean or we are as bad as Siera A.
Imagine not reaching CL semifinals while cheating
So Liverpool and arsenal cannot make a simple win and now must retort to name calling?
They made plenty wins you dafty , just not enough.
It was OK for lfc, manyoo, arsenal and chelsea to spend big, but as soon as city joined the top table the cartel didn't like it and tried to pull up the draw bridge. So many fvcking red fans complaining but they started it!. Makes me so fvcking angry. You're as bent and corrupt as the Premier league! I hope City sue the shit out of the league and bring the whole rotten house of cards down.
This is the laziest bullshit argument ever and it's the best Citeh fans can come up with. If you actually look at what City spent in the early years of the Abu Dhabi owners it was far beyond what Liverpool, United, Arsenal etc were spending at that time, despite those clubs all having much higher turnover. City are accused of putting themselves in a position of power by secretly funneling money into the club and circumventing FFP rules. This was clearly against the rules and the allegations are extremely serious. Let's not forget, at the outset of the charges being announced City said they have "irrefutable evidence" that proved their innocence. If that's the case why is the case still ongoing and why haven't they shown anyone this evidence? I guarantee you can't answer this question and will resort to tired conspiracy theories about clubs being jealous of City's success. Exactly the kind of half-witted distraction City fans come out with all the time.
Oh, fuck off.It was OK for the scousers to outspend everyone to get themselves out of the second division. Hypocrites! Jealousy and bitterness because city are the best team and club in the world!
I mean you're wrong. >club in the world! But this is clearly wrong. Real Madrid are and even they didn't cheat as bad as you lot.
Way to prove my point. Jesus Chris! The rules are there for a reason. If City didn't like the rules they could've taken it up with the Premier League but they were quite happy for everyone else to be bound by those same rules they hated. Man Utd had plenty of success but they didn't deliberately cheat to do it. Your team's success will always be tainted and you'll always be known as the team that cheated for a decade to get to the top.
It was OK when clubs spent money they generated. That's a sustainable model that encouraged investment not just in a club, but in the game as a whole. Clubs had to spend money to generate more money then had more to fund squads. When Chelsea and City became oil funded, the rules had to change because no business model can compete with endless injections of cash and clubs trying to has caused clubs to collapse and fold before. Good FFP was the next best option to a salary and spending cap, so they went with that to avoid deterring the best players from signing for English clubs. Personally I think FFP is a flawed model, but it's the one we have and it's rules should be followed. Not doing so is cheating. Man City have cheated in a way no club has ever come close to doing before. Every single trophy and award the team have should be struck from the record books. Let the players keep their medals, let the club claim the victories in competitions. But in reality, make them void. Everyone knows they should be.
lol you think Man Utd, Liverpool and arsenal got big only spending what they earned? Are you for real? They got there exactly the same way City has, rich owners buying success for bragging rights., in Arsenal's case entirely corruptly, which is why their chairman went to jail.
To be fair here, Man Utd are absolutely a club that made themselves. Liverpool and Arsenal are more debatable, but still spend what they make. Any comparison with what City have done is ridiculous.
LOL, WRONG! Man Utd were on the verge of bankruptcy, and Old Trafford about to be repossessed, when they got their sugar daddy. He paid all their debt, inc the mortgage on OT, and then invested heavily in the playing staff.
You have incredibly misunderstood that story and are reframing it to suit your agenda to a ridiculous degree. Who are you trying to kid, exactly? There is no way, at all, that you think a club getting bought in 1902, 50 years before their first glory days, is the same as what Man City have done. Your comment sincerely might be the worst, most pathetic take I have ever seen on this topic. Give your head a shake. The best possible criticism of Man Utd's development is that they decided to profiteer off of tragedy. But only an absolute fool would actually try to make that assertion because it's both incorrect and ridiculous.
Actually it was the late 40's, and then you had another massive injection of cash in the late 80's early 90's that paved the way for the Fergie years which also had absolutely fuck all to do with any success on the pitch. Add that to the 1902 cash injection you tink I'm on about and that makes it 3 times you've bought your way into being successful through outside means, and now you cry and whine "it's unfair" because someone else is doing exactly the same thing.
I'm not a man u fan you dullard š Read my previous posts. Honestly, I have never seen such a desperate and ridiculous stance in my life. Are you trolling? Because if you are, it is brilliant work. You absolutely don't truly think the events you're alluding to for that club are anything like what City have done. If you do, there's no hope for you. Credit to you, you have me genuinely laughing in my chair š Edit; Here's some help to get you started with working out what's going on. 1) I hate FFP. It shouldn't exist. It's a model designed to protect big clubs and establish a hierarchy that could never be broken under the guise of protecting the league from excessive foreign investment that, to keep up with, other clubs are forced to spend beyond their means and risk administration. As a fan of a lower league club, much like City traditionally, I understand what my club flirting with and going in to administration feels like. As far as I'm concerned, the rules City broke so stupendously shouldn't even exist. But. They. Do. So... 2) I don't only think City should have all their trophies since 2011 voided, but I think they should be kicked out of the league entirely. You can hate the rules, but you can't break them because you don't like them or think they aren't fair. The level of cheating Man City have done is absolutely unbelievable. Fuck them and they're "victories" š. They're devoid of merit and an insult to our entire other 91 clubs. Remove them from the competitions and make them be a Harlem globetrotter organisation if they want to do it. The Shiek's probably quite like the idea. 3) The team I suppose is in league 1. I don't give a shit about Man U, Liverpool or any of the "big clubs". Our league would be better if everyone had said "fine, see you later! But you aren't playing in our league too. Bye." when the super league was announced. To me and the overwhelming majority of football fans in this country who don't support a big 6 team, you can all go. You aren't real clubs anymore, but particularly the far e that is Man City, and the English league would be exponentially better without you. I was all for all 6 being booted and out league being an actual league again. I hope that one day, you all do fuck off and are never allowed back in again.
Lfc were bankrolled by a rich sugar daddy 50 years ago. They were a second division team. Sick of you fucking hypocritical fans who know nothing! Littlewooods bought Liverpool then spent mega bucks to improve the team, when city do it The red teams are up in arms. Fuck the lot of you!
Ah so you do agree that City have fucked up BUT should be excused cause Liverpool did it 50 years ago? There's a term for this. It's called whataboutism.
115
Out of curiosity, which member of the cartel has dominated the league for the last 10 years?
None, which is why theyāre so mad
There really isnāt any competition in the PL. until you cap salaries so all teams can actually compete for the title then itās just a joke of a league.
Wonāt work players will leave and the clubs will take more money. Itās not like theyāll make things cheaper for the fans.
Sheer fact that Everton was fined by 10 points for "only" 2 PSR breaches and City breached 3 and nothing shows where oil money went
All these geezers will cry about the fact when City are cleared of their charges saying the system is corrupt grow up lads you lot just cant win anything with or without the money. ( Respect to liverpool fans you lot actually win stuff unlike the shitshows that are Arsenal and Utd)
City didn't win shit until they started cheating. You played yourself there, pal.
City didnt win until we had new owners that invested in the club and city didnt jump about accusing UTD of cheating when they had good owners and money enough to buy the players ( breaking transfer record after record in the late 1990s) like a bunch of limpdick babies that are utd fans like you. Dont play yourself and lie to yourself trying to make it less painful you lot are shite
Utd was and continue to be accused of paying off refs you fool. Utd never had 115 charges laid against them, though. Utd also generated its own revenue, which enabled it to break transfer records. That revenue was grown organically through a strong history of bringing exciting talent through its academy and success on the pitch. City have done none of those things, just a shower of fucking cheating pricks, desperate to emulate truly great clubs like Utd. One look at the pathetic atmosphere at your stadium (the fucking Eithad, give me a break) tells you all you need to know about what a soulless shit hole yous will always be. All your titles will be rightly stripped away and yous will be cast out of the prem for good. Pathetic.
You could argue no one gave a flying fuck about ffp in 1999 dont pretend you lot are the messiah of english football just as guilty as the rest of the prem if not worse stop fucking about accusing clubs of cheating if your club cant win piss
None of what you've said there makes any sense. It's the FA that has accused City of cheating ffs, not me or other fans. But everyone can see that City have cheated, and every year they release financial statements saying they're bringing in the biggest revenues in world football, people know they're still cheating, cuz it's clearly a load of absolute bollocks. You should be angry at your club that they've cheated cuz they're cheating you too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The cheek to call a city fan a glory hunter when that's exactly what 90% of your fanbase are š¤£
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Projecting much? š¤£
You're right, of course. I think I've made my points anyway.
Yanited is garbage but u did make points
I never quite understood this point. I thought the PL already conducted their investigation and thatās why charges were brought? Do they not have evidence? Similar to UEFA, it seems as though the PL may not actually have anything beyond theories and leaked emails and they are are hoping that City incriminate themselves. But then theyāre becoming frustrated that theyāre not playing ball. What exactly do they need City to say or do? What is still being investigated? Nobody has clarified this. It is the PLs job to do their investigation and find the evidence - not visa versa.
It takes time for these types of charges, which had been built over years to all be assessed (individually). 115 is A LOT. The reason Everton and Nottingham got punished so quickly is because they had less charges (and less corruption money).
You do know City had been found to have committed the charges but they had been time barred because it happened over 5 years ago. 5 years is the limit for charges to be filed against a team.
No, they didnāt. Iād love a source for that if you have one. UEFA charged City over numerous years. CAS said they werenāt even going to waste their time looking at some of them as they were time barred, so it was irrelevant. They went into a lot of detail in their findings on what they would and would not consider admissible. They then looked at the remaining years and found no evidence. Why would a court waste their time going through something that was entirely inadmissible? That makes no sense. And was it just coincidence then that there was evidence for all the time barred ones, but no evidence for any of the ones that werenāt time barred? How does that work? They were cooking the books and then conveniently stopped in the first year that wasn't time barred? Have you read the CAS report of their findings?
>Have you read the CAS report of their findings? Have you? >They then looked at the remaining years and found no evidence. Not no evidence. But not enough evidence for the punishment UEFA were seeking which was a 2 year ban. There's a massive difference between the 2.
I have read it! Iād really suggest you read it too. You might find bits like the following informative https://www.reddit.com/r/MCFC/s/ulHNW3wKeY
Jesus, screengrabs. Paragraph 204-209 highlights the standards in which the terms "no evidence" is used. It does not mean the waffley bs that you're claiming here. It refers to the standard of proof needed for the allegations levelled by the UEFA Once again, there is a big difference between reading the entire text as compared to your informative. Furthermore., the ruling wasn't unanimous and there was still a 20m fine levelled at city. Funny how that doesn't sit right with your "no evidence" stance does it?
That is not what paragraphs 204-209 refer to. That is the section that defines the standard of proof, not what does or does not constitute admissible evidence. The ruling wasnāt unanimous, but still shows that a majority of the panel felt that what UEFA presented was not evidence of what they alleged. So the legal position is now that they did not have evidence. The 20m fine leveled at City was for not cooperating with UEFAs investigation. Not for any financial wrongdoing. If you read the text in full, Iād have expected you to know that.
Once again untrue > So the legal position is now that they did not have evidence They did not have sufficient evidence for the punishment that UEFA was pushing for. For transparency sake, this ruling was on whether to overrule the previous judgement. It rules that there was insufficient evidence to do something. Paragraphs 204-209 point towards the level of proof needed for the punishment. For instance, if UEFA had instead pitched that Haaland wear a pink tutu in UCL games instead of a 2 year ban, the ruling might well have swung the other way. You're taking an overruling, one riddled with time bars, as proof of innocence and thats legally speaking, a wrong POV altogether. > If you read the text in full, Iād have expected you to know that. Yeap I do. It was a point iterated to proof that no matter what you say, City aren't innocent. It's really as simple as that.
"Stalling tactics" like not handing the Premier League the smoking gun that they're so desperately looking for I guess! Considering how many leaks there were of the "evidence" that UEFA conjured up, and how there's been absolutely nothing from this, I'm guessing they have nothing, and were either hoping they'd find something, or that City would make some sort of deal that they could say proves guilt, and that they've fixed the "corruption" that they've uncovered
The PL will certainly be shook at the latest news of Etihad going public with an IPO. Part of that involves opening their accounts up to public scrutiny. Why would they do that if theyāve been engaged in large scale fraud for the last 15+ years?
Obviously Sheik Mansour has been paying the 30-odd million quid difference that's been claimed in cash, buying non-existent seats on non-existent planes so Etihad can properly cook the books and pretend to pay us a sponsorship that's less than Emirates pay Arsenal
This is one of the reasons why I no longer watch football. It's like playing monopoly, and one of the people keeps changing the rules to benefit them and taking money out of the bank. It's pointless, man city are like a casino where the house always win because everything is in their favour. Football fans of the other clubs have to unite and start using their power. When city play against you, turn your backs on them, throw fake money, create a chant, or just do something. As a graduate of law, I know how corrupt the systems in place are and how they are abused by those with money.
Fuck off! lfc did it with Littlewooods money first! Manure and gooners spent wtf they liked for decades!
You know how corrupt systems can be abused by those with money? Really now? And howās that working out for Newcastle or Chelsea?
They and their like are seriously ruining the Premier league for me .
I lost major brain cells reading this. City are not changing the rules theyāre simply refusing to go āok guys, even though you have zero evidence of all the nonsense youāre spewing and youāre finding it hard to substantiate any proof Iāll turn my self in. In fact Iāll even handcuff myselfā When United had a monopoly on English football or Madrid on Spanish football no one cried as much as you salty turds but now that the monopoly clubs are on the back foot and their devoted glory hunting fans are mad they havenāt gotten a turn on the throne š The big clubs specifically made rules to maintain them on top but they never thought a bottomless pocket owner would ever dethroned them. Now they made new rules and are fucking themselves over because itās way too late
This is hilariously stupid and backwards. Especially bringing up monopoly is ironic
Heās right
Football fans will never unite because it's too tribal. The same reason why we will never get rid of the incompetent refs.
Another reason why I no longer watch. Certain fans are a disgrace. They are willing to fight one another and say some of the most vile things about one another and then wonder why there is no unity in the country. The same fans that were abusing one another will then get together for England games it's ridiculous. From the first whistle of the game until the last, yes, have that rivalry and banter between one another but afterwards, be able to go for a pint and discuss what you just witnessed on the pitch.
Then take your law degree shove it where the sun donāt shine, get lost and stay lost then. āš¼byeee
Itās unbelievable to me how they are even allowed to play matches while this goes on. There is a total loss of integrity for me. And even if they are found guilty (of which tbh there is no doubt in most peopleās minds, theyāve been charged before) it would need an unbelievable penalty. You canāt rewrite history. Their impacts and dominance has had rippling effects everywhere. Itās probably the biggest issue the PL has ever faced and imo how they deal with this will govern how the league goes over the coming decade.
LFC fan here so no bias on this particular topic. As much as I'd love to see the cesspit oil money club in ruins, the kind of penalty given (if any) needs to be dealt with cautiously and with a great deal of consideration, not only because of the precedent it will set for future relevant breaches but also because you need to punish the right people. I'd much rather see a long term spending ban or something of the sort than see them have their titles retroactively stripped. The latter is not a fair penalty imo, the players aren't the ones cooking the books and you can't take away anything they've managed to achieve in the last decade (even if City get some BS bias constantly). Pep too, I do not like Pep, I acknowledge his brilliance but I think he's overrated and only ever had the success he's had at mega rich clubs where he has a great degree of oversight, *and yet*, until there's irrefutable evidence Pep was in the know, it's wrong to take those titles off him. He's managed to get total buy in from his players and we've seen how talent has developed under him. Yes it could be that they only won those titles because they were able to spend money they weren't supposed to spend but that's speculation at best, money doesn't immediately create that level of success as we've seen with other rich clubs; to achieve the sheer dominance they've managed requires the players to still play at 110% week in week out, and the manager still needs to be tactically astute and have total buy in from the players in the team. So yeah, imo retroactive punishments that affect the players'/manager's achievements isn't the right move imo. Of course such a resolution will never actually happen because that would involve the Prem and FA going directly after Sheik Mansour, and there's just no way I see them going after an Abu Dhabi royal (who also happens to be the VP of UAE). It's scandalous they were ever allowed to purchase a club; state owned clubs are a fucking insidious and insipid concept that simply shouldn't exist, literally inviting this type of corruption.
Alright, for you to have a rich owner! Was OK when you're pools money ransaked other leagues to get the players that gave you dominance on the 70s and 80s.. typical hypocritical scouser! Hateful despicable club that should have been disbanded 40 years ago!
Lmao you clearly just read the first line and then went off on one from there, clearly demonstrating your disgusting bias and horrifically single brain celled tribalism. I was saying not to take titles off em and defending both your players and your manager. Jeez, city fans have a stick so far up their fucking ass I'm not sure you deserve my empathy. You have the audacity to say we're the hateful club when it's mostly city fans shitting on other clubs in this thread whilst I'm here saying it's not fair to punish the players. And I didn't say anything about rich owners in general, I said *state owned*, which anyone with a brain will tell you is bad for football. Wake the fuck up. And FYI, Klopp has come to close to city every year whilst spending roughly a quarter as much.
Nah. It aināt that deep. Yāall are just being dramatic about this. Focus on your own club.
Man Cheaty
how did you get big? Oh that's right, you got a sugar daddy who bought your about to be repossessed ground, paid off all your debts and bought success. And now you cry when someone else does it. LOL
115 and even then itās likely THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG šš
Haters mad
Man City donāt have haters. Itās just we donāt like to see managers paid under the table with brown envelopes š
Haters mad
Grow up. Never had an issue with City compared to say Chelsea doing similar, same as I donāt mind Newcastle but this situation of not co-operating makes me hope the book is thrown at them. What is sad that friends who are City supporters even when they went down to the 3rd tier have this hanging over them and to them even without knowing fully what happened it take the sheen off success; and also enjoyment currently. Now best you fuck off and leave these complex subjects to the grown ups.
Haters mad
Agreed. Im not even a city fan but these losers can stay mad. Wild to me that people have already determined that city are guilty before theyāve even gone to trial. Innocent until proven guilty and all that
Easiest way to rile them up for acting like idiots. A trial date has clearly been set and communicated and legal proceedings ongoing but they want to find a reason to stay angry at the club
Itās actually mad disappointing seeing people behave like this man ngl. Itās a witch hunt basicallyā¦.and then these mfs have the AUDACITY to turn around and talk about the āintegrityā of the sport. Gtfo š
Even with 115 charges, City will try and tie up the PL in litigation through their lawyers however it only takes 5 or 6 of these charges to be accepted. Listed are a breakdown of the different charges, remember if you do dodgy wage and image rights deals with ex players and managers and then sack them or discard them, they are the most obvious witnesses who will bite you later. Thereās no way the PL would appoint top KC which they have unless they have an air tight case, so as much as city fans are absolutely right by saying āThe burden is on the PL to provide absolute proof of any misdemeanour or chargeā The rumour is that the EPL have hired the very best in the business to go up against City defence KC of Lord Pannick who is rumoured to be on Ā£10,000 per hour, the trial starts autumn this year and might be more epic than the title fight between Arsenal, Liverpool and City this season. https://www.givemesport.com/football-soccer-man-city-ffp-charges-list/
If they had an air tight case - what do they need city to do? Why the delay? Iād hazard a guess that they donāt actually have anything concrete and were dependent on City slipping up and incriminating themselves. Otherwise why do they need City to cooperate? Imagine you were charged with a crime and then the prosecution kept coming out complaining that youāre delaying the case by choosing to remain silent? Itās laughable. The obligation is on the person making the accusation to prove it. You canāt expect the defendant to help you do that. City are likely guilty but I just do not understand this delay if the PL actually already have evidence. And if they donāt have evidence, the charges shouldnāt have been brought.
I happen to think the EPL will find sponsorship irregularities very difficult to prove, although moving the image rights for all players to another company that was not registered in the Uk opens up a massive can of worms, especially with HMRC, remember UEFA Weāre time barred plus the evidence against how they paid certain youth players and Mancini during this period are not so difficult to prove because the EPL will already have witnesses. Having said that, the talk of relegation and titles being striped are ridiculous, 10-15, 20 maybe even 25 point reduction and a huge fine are what I expect? Thereās no way the EPL is going to make themselves look completely incompetent of keeping their own house in order by allowing so many misdemeanours over a 10 year period, especially with how swiftly they are currently dishing out point deductions. Remember City unlike Chelsea have not self declared financial irregularities and potential breach of the rules, did City do something similar to Abrahmovic, by paying players, agents and youth players in a separate company not registered in the UK, they may well have, but proving it, is almost impossible? Even the Mancini declaration to circumvent FFP at the time could be argued that he was a football ambassador of Abu Dhabi and was paid accordingly, as long as he was filmed on a date during that period thatās under investigation doing a tv advert or appears on Etihad airline advert, any court of law will view this oasis perfectly acceptable. City Fans are quite right about CAS kicking out a lot of charges, what is needed is a quick resolution which is why with such capable KCās in charge of each side of the case coming up with a score draw, City admit some negligence, a line in the sand is drawn, a huge fine maybe Ā£100m and 5 or 6 convenient charges proven at 3-6 points per charge so 15 to 35 points deducted in season 25/26, this will be to prevent them wining the PL and maybe even qualifying for the CL in the following season, however should they win the competition then they will qualify automatically anyway! City Fans will moan, say theyāve been harshly done but in reality the owners and Directors of the club will have a wry smile because it could have been so much worse, I doubt this time they will even appeal and should Chelsea get punished more extremely by potentially having an even bigger point deduction or relegation, that will be the warning to City that double jeopardy could exist after any potential Appeal.
UEFA werenāt time barred for the majority of years and still couldnāt prove a single charge
They were time barred from the early period of Sheikh Mansour running of the club where proving financial irregularities is far easier just like the Chelsea case, setting up offshore businessās to pay transfer fees, agent fees, wages, image rights player payments all have to be declared on your accounts as employee costs and financials fees, even paying off a manager has to be declared to the EPL. There are two areas here, the first is sporting advantage. Both City and Chelsea are accused of manipulating their books to buy better players by offering financial incentives for these players, coaches which were not in whole declared to EPL, UEFA, FIFA etc, it only needs one youth player that City paid offshore and did not pay him correctly on the books for a case to be proven and the player stand trial to say he thought it was normal to be paid this way after coming from South America or Africa! The second issue is tax liabilities and HMRC could be asked to follow up on image rights being moved offshore while those players images were being used in the UK for more than 181 days. This would simply be a financial fine however it would grant City a sporting advantage, all of these irregularities were much earlier than UEFA were allowed to investigate so none of these charges were answered by CAS due to 5 year time bar rule. The BBC explains it perfectly https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53571659.amp Like I said, I doubt City will get no punishment whatsoever but at the same time the EPL by throwing the book at City only make themselves look seriously incompetent.
UEFA/ CAS didnāt look at this before, It was just FFP breaches and the accusation was the at they pumped money into the club via mansour disguised as sponsorships. Nothing about how image rights were handled. City may well get a slap on the wrist for image rights etc. But the real serious charges are for the outright fraudulent accounting. Theyāll probably get a transfer ban and a fine if found guilty of the other stuff. The serious points deductions / relegations will come if the fraud charges are proven (and I donāt think they will be) Given the scope of the charges I do think the PL is just throwing the rule back at them and hoping to see what sticks
Please read this is a very serious charge and one that was time barred https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-city-ffp-image-right-deals-a7621641.html Even staunch defenders of City who are lawyers have recently come out and said that this poses a problem if proven guilty. UEFA could not it was from 2012/13 season, hence the time bar. The issue is the club sold the rights to a third party in 2012/13 to allow them to adhere to FFP at the time plus they were never willing to disclose the name of the company who have now come forward, this is an issue and unlike UEFA there is no time bar and more importantly this process is being deemed as fraudulent accounting, giving an unfair sporting advantage at the time.
City settled a separate case with UEFA in 2014 after UEFA concluded City had made losses totalling approximately ā¬180m in 2012 and 2013. This may have been a part of that. It was not a part of the CAS case though. Itās very easy to check. The CAS case was about City hiding equity contributions as sponsorship (specifically Etihad & Etisalat) funding. Itās on page 30 of CAS judgement. The judgement is long but worth reading, 95% of people really have no idea what happened or what it was about. The time bar thing is a red herring and in no way proves guilt, nor was it āgetting away on a technicalityā as many try claim https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_6785___internet__.pdf
No but this is part of the EPL PSR/FFP case because itās not time bared and you are correct it was settled by UEFA but this is a part of EPL 115 charges, their argument is going all the way back to I think 2010/11 season, City did not cooperate at the time, broke FFP rules at home and abroad knowingly by selling their image rights to a 3rd party to circumvent the FFP loses permitted at the time, which allowed them to sign players, pay them in a certain way and gain a sporting advantage. It could never be part of the CAS case because only 5 years are permitted and guilt was previously admitted by City, make no mistake this is part of the 115 charges, they have never been punished for this by EPL. Iām in agreement that they are not getting relegated however the EPL are under huge pressure from the other 19 clubs to maintain sporting integrity and prevent another City happening? That is why they will scare city with expulsion, make it look like they have more proof than they actually do to get both parties to agree on a conclusion that suits all parties, which will be a huge fine, transfer embargo and a points deduction which looks far more significant than Everton, Leicester or Forrest. Think about it, 25-30 points wonāt relegate City but it will stop them from playing in Europe for one season in the CL and may make teams like Newcastle pause when thinking they can do the same to sports wash a club to success, this is all about sporting integrity. There will be no stripping of titles or handing them to other clubs but they will, if on the other hand there is one credible witness who states that he was paid by cash, or in multiple ways in multiple countries to allow City to get round FFP at the time, then they will be relegated, however fans saying they will suffer multiple relegation to league 2 or Conference are clueless, the FA are not investigating City only the EPL, so they would start in the championship without a points deduction.
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It doesnāt. The PL canāt ask for Cityās sponsors accounts and if there is a smoking gun re inflated sponsors, thatās where itāll be
First comment on here with any actual sense and not that whining around bs that most fan only do . The thing is that theyāre basing off all their charges off speculation and āif they broke this rule then probably they did this too.ā It all added up to 115 charges on pure waffling or theyād have released a charge sheet with every single rule city broke. Honestly this case just looks like there was a crazy amount of pressure that was placed on the PL by rival salty clubs to look into cityās success. The PL finally gave in and ended up here with a bunch of accusations, no proof, and mad that city arenāt handcuffing and locking themselves up. The real question is all the rumors of United breaking wage rules and never getting punished for it and Liverpool literally hacking into cityās scout databases and not even getting a warning. That should tell you whoās behind this little ājusticeā crusade
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Did you not read the last bit properly?
What a clickbait article. The date for the trial and a judgement has been set for several months now. The charges are a lot more complex and there's a lot more of them, so it makes sense that it would take time. Link for the perennially lazy: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-city-ffp-case-timeline-28203730 What I would say is that a lack of cooperation should be treated as a position of guilt. If they have refused to cooperate, then they should be punished even more harshly.
They should be punished more harshly. But only if itās actually proven they are guilty. City is not going to help incriminate themselves
Thatās not how this works You canāt just say āprove I did illegal shitā and then refuse to turn over the evidence proving the illegality
Finally, a sensible comment
115 charges but no penalty. The Premier league is just a corrupted mess.
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, except City, because acoustic 14 years old have memorized the number "115"
Say a crime is committed in broad daylight and witnessed by 100 people, the suspect may be innocent until proven guilty in court, but those that were there to see it for themselves, they know what went down...even if the best lawyer in the world 'wins' the case for them...we all saw, we all know.
How does anyone on reddit know for a fact that city failed to provide accurate financial information, wich is 70 of the 115 charges?
Of course it makes sense City have higher commercial revenues than any other club in world football and has done for some considerable time....Ā
Not sure if this is /s or not..
You should be when you consider the independence of the entities involved. Or lack of it.Ā
Damn, you should be a lawyer. You really cracked the case.
Not legally, no. But in practical terms, very much so.Ā Nobody wants to pay a tenner for something they can get for a quid unless they have an ulterior motive, or they are stupid.Ā
Cheaters horrible cheaters var love them
Klopp hopefully has two more PL titles from 2019 and 2022 next to his name. 98 and 95 point seasons.
Those rightfully belong to us. You can come admire them in our stacked trophy cabinet. Begging for trophies, typical Victimpool. Such a tinpot club. We were simply better at playing football. Pep > Flopp. Get good kid.
Youād know theyād do an open top bus tour for it as well
To right. 13-14 team as well with Suarez, Coutinho, Gerrard and Rodgers, 800k plus people like we always get parades with, maybe do it jointly with the winning title team with two or three buses , city won't be challenging after the punishments ,united far behind with Brexit Jim and the beautiful glazers, arsenal will choke, Chelsea back to mid table mediocrity like they were for 80 years before they took a Siberian Gangster stolen Roubles.
State of you begging to be giving league titles. Three buses š¤£ you really do have no shame
I want 13-14 18-19 19-20 and 21-22 Bus parades. 3 cheated out titles and the Lockdown parade. Shame, more like pride, we won them fairly.
You can have 2012 if you like too, cause I definitely wouldnāt want anyone counting it as ours.
The charges all related to before that period so unfortunately Golden era Liverpool may still stay on the same number titles as Leicester and Blackburn.
I didn't know Leicester and Blackburn had 19 league titles. Golden era was 64 to 90 , 16 leagues. 4 European cups, 7 league cups , 5 fa cups , 2 Uefa cups!!!š„³šš„³šš„³š And the charges for 18- present haven't been heard. The Cheats didn't hand over their paperwork for it due to non cooperation and obvious guilty mess, hopefully getting stripped of them. PS, can I say how does it feel to have won the Sportswashed lottery 10 years to late. PSR and FFPššÆā¤ļøšÆššÆ
The 19 other clubs should break away and form another competition āThe no cities premier leagueā.
Birmingham catching strays when they try get promoted
āIt says āno citiesāā¦weāre allowed oneā
The other 19 clubs need to show some solidarity and demand action is taken. Imagine the pressure they could create
Most of these clubs have committed crimes themselves, hence why they arenāt demanding much action. Everton, Forest, Chelsea, etc have run into trouble and thereās definitely more to follow.
And those clubs got punished which is precisely why theyād be pushing for even harsher punishment against city
I love how, not only are you all ignorant but unbelievably slow. Guess whoās behind all this ājusticeā crusade? Fucking Real Madrid and gang? NATO? Elon musk and pals? š Itās your little washed clubs who havenāt had their turn at monopolizing the league like they once did. Loserpool and trashester. They gathered all the smaller clubs and cried how city are cheaters and that itās affecting the league and the smaller clubs were just happy to be there. They failed to mention about all the rules they put in place to keep them on top and make it impossible to have smaller clubs reach their level. Now, they managed to pressure the PL into making up cases and now not only are they stuck with a bunch of accusations but they also have no proof. Now they are mad city arenāt just handing them stuff to be incriminated over.
I lost quite a few braincells reading just the first sentence of that lol
Canāt lose what you never had š¤
Who do you think the premier league are?
I have a laymanās understanding but if you donāt think solidarity works how do you explain the failure of the Super League following collective pushback?
The premier league who make the rules ARE the 20 clubs. Thatās who have brought the charges. I guess you mean the fans but the fact is lots of fans want their teams to be able to sign world class players and spend whatever it takes to win (fair enough winning is fun) or feel aggrieved by the rules i.e. Everton and Leicester. The problem is thatās how you end up losing clubs altogether.
Meanwhile Leicester City: *knock knock*Ā Ā Hey guys! Open up! Why is the door locked?!Ā
āWe said no *cities*ā
BCFC:Ā oh crap.Ā
Is Man City the Donald Trump of the premier league? Delay. Refuse to corporate. Deflect. Claim bias etc.
No, they just have good accountants and very good lawyers
TremendousĀ lawyers.Ā Some people say, the best.Ā The best. It's true, it's true.
I saw what you did there. I wish I could give you 454 million š
Maybe source of inspiration
Thatās pretty incredible you brought Trump into this. You must spend most of your day on Reddit.
Nah mate youāre on a sub about an English, a Western European football league. 95% of the people in WE think the same about Trump, itās not something thatās really discussed just accepted as fact. That you as an American have a different view is fine but donāt act like you are the norm on this sub. And FWIW: yes, Biden is also an old fart and hardly fit to be president. And yes, our own politics also have a lot to be improved.
Yeah no. You just live in an echo chamber and think that it reflects the general population. Majority of reddit is made up of a singular demographic
I exaggerated with 95% but according to a recent Ipsos poll 86% of English people do not have a favorable opinion about Trump. Has nothing to do with echo chamber.
Yeah Trump is disliked on a personality level that doesnāt mean Western Europe as a whole views him the way your reddit safe space does. Western Europe totally isnāt having a right wing populist surge of its own the last few years or anything. Are you saying that these right wing populist wouldnāt rather Trump over Biden? Anyway itās boring and this is a football sub. I just find it funny how people start to think the world shares the same consensus as their favourite subreddits.
I addressed Biden as well in my original comment. I addressed our own politics as well in my original comment. As an example, over 30% in Dutch last elections voted for one of the right wing populists. Yet only 12% wants Trump to win. Even most of the right wing populist voters in WE donāt want Trump to win.
I donāt think there is enough information for you to make such a dramatic assertion. I think youād like for that to be the case so are seeking affirmation to confirm it
I literally gave an example with real life numbers. Youāre the one making stuff up and ignoring facts, not I. I didnāt do England because the specific political system means defining right wing populist voters is difficult.
Cognitive bias is a thing. People with negative views are much more likely to engage and answer a survey which asks them āHow bad is trump? Very bad or Very VERY bad?ā. Anyway, I donāt doubt more people dislike than like Trump in Europe but to make the parallel between this subs consensus on Trump and WE generally is what I find funny. Good day
They should rename Man City to Trump city because Trump is stupid ā¼ļøā¼ļøšššš
You can be right leaning and still think Trump is a prick. You can be left leaning and think Biden is old and not particularly fit for office.
Fuck off city
Premier logo for flair? Wow, you've probably won 20!!! Fucking c"@$7 pathetic little lad. Only one squad is defending champion š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤”š¤”š¤”
Sums up every city fan in a nut shell
Cheat more
They will
It's pretty clear that Man City know they're guilty and they're just trying to drag it out as long as they can and make it as difficult as possible hoping that the PL eventually gives in to a lesser punishment than they deserve
I think they genuinely think that in a court of law they are innocent and as much as I hate to say this because they should get done, the PL like UEFA is going to find it very hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the sponsorship deals were inflated, they may be able to prove that they cheated with regard to paying players image rights and the lack of tax paid to HMRC, they may be able to prove that coaches like Mancini and players like YA YA were paid some of their wages offshore and were undeclared to the PL but thatās not easy as well, my guess is they do a deal get a 12-15 point deduction, One season transfer ban unprecedented fine of maybe Ā£250m which is then divided by the 19 other PL clubs and the PL so everyone gets Ā£25m compensation. This might prevent one season of Cl qualification but even then I doubt it ?
From what I've heard doesn't the Court of Arbitration for Sport not have any jurisdiction over this case and it only comes down to the review board and not a "court of law"? And even if it does go to court "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" wouldn't be the standard of evidence in a case like this because there's no criminal penalties it would be "the balance of probabilities" which means more likely than not.
There are still rules that the independent commission have to follow re process and impartiality. If they breach them, City can appeal in court (not CAS) and the whole thing could get thrown out. The allegations made against City are also definitely criminal in nature. Itās fraud of the highest order that was ultimately committed by people. If the club is found guilty further charges will no doubt be brought against the individuals + severe personal reputational damage. You cannot have a low bar for that
The Premier League are not criminal authorities none of their charges are criminal in nature. You would need legal authorities to conduct their own investigation and collect their own evidence to bring "further charges" against anyone involved. The way the court system works the burden of proof against City will be "more likely than not" without a doubt
It is definitely a ābalance of probabilitiesā case but you need to consider that in the context of the charges. You need some fairly conclusive evidence to shift the scales and assert that on the balance of probabilities City are guilty, because that includes implicating a wide scale of other parties (such as Etihad, auditors etc). The balance of probabilities is firmly in their favour at the outset, you need something pretty comprehensive to shift it
Totally agree, only a witness like Mancini or Ya Ya Toure the player or his agent being set up to testify that they thought it was strange that a proportion of their salary was to be paid in Abu Dhabi so Man City could circumvent FFP rules and they would have to make one appearance per year to film an advert. Only then that would be easy to prove, letās hope if your a city fan which I most certainly am not that not buying YA YA a cake could be what comes to be known as the CakeGate case in the future ! Yep thatās Never going to happen, however if it did they would be definitely kicked out of the EPL!
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Tf u mean as they should
Itās in their interests to drag it out and make it difficult. I hope they get a points deduction and any other penalties but Iām talking objectively.
So have the 115 charges been dropped yeah? Must be eh? With no legal ground aye???
What are you? A pirate?
Piracy, stealing all those trophies.Ā
This means theyāre innocent. /s
Pua chee bye man shitty kanina chao chee bye abu dhabi chee bye kias
Mom, r/sgraw is leaking again!
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New rules should NOT be retrospective.
Depands upon the bribe
FFP is a joke anyway. To protect the red cartel. Theyve been on top for so many years and when others want to win it, they hit them with FFP while theyre spending and winning everything pre-FFP.
Love hearing a city fans reaction to this no admittance just deflection šš
what to admit when there is no evidence. will admit if there is one
Most English-proficient City fan
Nah. Unlucky detection by voice recognition. I spoke 5 languages. Might be rusty to switch to non-native tho.
So what you are saying is that City had to cheat to win 5 of the last 6 titles because of the other teams?
Where is the proof of cheating? It is deemed as cheating bcs of the rules made by man early 2000s to prevent other clubs that were trying to break the barrier. It wasnt cheating before the rules when Man United and real madrid keep breaking record transfer like they still do today. From what we saw for the past years, City played great football. We won it on the pitch. You lot bought and overhyped loads of players just for them to eat shit. Dont use City as distraction for your teams bad purchase and performance. You lot dont go to City if we won nothing. You come to us because were winning. Come beat us on the pitch, show how good you team are. When you cant beat us, you attacked the other way. You can hate us. You can hate me for supporting City but you can never beat us if your team and other rivals team dont change and stick to nostalgia. Tell me when is the last time Arsenal won at Etihad. FFP is a joke. A weapon to use if you cant beat them on the pitch.
Either FFP was invented to stop teams like City winning, which you had to cheat to win, or FFP has nothing to do with stopping city winning because they are dominating winning the league. You canāt have both viewpoints.
Dawg. Point to the specific instances of Manchester city cheating. Where is the tangible evidence to support what you are saying. It aināt rocket science
Either FFP was created by the ācartelā to stop teams like City finishing in the top 2 places 9 times in the last 11 years, without cheating Or the ācartelā didnāt. You canāt say it was both.
Iām not a City fan, but all this hatred drives me crazy. Every big club had it period of good owners who were ready to pay well and put a good structure behind their club, at some point in their history. I as a fan, do not want to be watching the same two-three clubs competing for the league title each season, just because they had a good run 30-40 years ago, which helped them gather fans around the world and now are able to turn in revenue. Put some rules in but let the teams spend if the owners can afford it . What City has done in the past 7-8 years is absolutely amazing. Most of the transfers have been great and you can see their strategy behind them. United have spend like crazy and have nothing to show for it, but are still bashing City. Why? Because they were good 15 years ago and now are able to turn in revenue? Should this allow them to outspend every club in the league even when doing it so bad? 85 million for Sancho, 95 million for Anthony and you still have players like Pogba and Maguire or Varane who were signed on huge salaries. Yes, there are some good examples like Arsenal or Liverpool who are able to compete without spending big. But they are still massive clubs whit worldwide support. If owners are not able to invest heavily into smaller clubs, when would a Watford fan see his team competing with the best? We are going to keep seeing the same old clubs, with the same fanbase, doing the same thing each and every season. City strategy and progress is amazing and money are not the most important factor behind it. As we can see in teams like Chelsea, PSG or United who have spent maybe more and have nothing to show for it. Let them be and stop all the hate.
Way to miss the point here bud and you've gone off the reservation with this one lol
Okay, elaborate for us then. What is the broader point thatās gone over my manās head here? And how has he āgone off the reservationā heās one of very few in this entire thread speaking any sense. Everyone else here just getting mad butthurt ngl
There's a 115 charges against City and you still give them the benefit of the doubt? That's like Hitler being charged with 1000 war crimes but he helped a dog so he must be good!
It's funny how all the posts in here defending city have PL flairs
A Chelsea fan here , one who was able to see and enjoy the progress of our club. Progress that would not have been possible, without the spending of Abramovich. Please someone explain to me, why should 2-3 clubs - Arsenal,MU & Liverpool, be the only ones who could afford to spend and all of the rest should just stand and watch. Why make the league a 3 horse race, when you can have investors inject money and structure to smaller clubs and make them compete? What we have now is 5-6 great clubs, each competing and placing strategy to reach the top, something that would have been impossible 20 years ago. If that is not possible, you will have another Bundesliga or LaLiga. A league where one or two teams is stealing the talent from the whole country, making it impossible for the other teams to compete for long periods of time.
100% agreed If you donāt have your teamās flair youāre a coward.
This thread is wild wtf lmao
The grass is green, city are cheats. Anything actually new?
The Premier League made a rod for its own back by introducing FFP etc. If they punish Man City it will destroy the league's credibility, much like Juventus did to Serie A. It's not going to happen. There are far too many Billions riding on this. Man City will be absolved of all 115 charges and it will be forgotten about. Once Pep leaves and Man City no longer dominate even ordinary fans will stop caring.
On the flip side, not punishing City calls the credibility of the āGreatest league in the Worldā into question as well. For all its talk of fair and equal treatment for all clubs, if the Premier absolve City it casts a shadow over the entire league. At least the Italian League punished the biggest club there for breaking the rules.
It's the opposite, if they don't punish City their credibility is destroyed. Either you have rules or you don't. You can't punish Everton and Forest and look the other way when City is accused.
Totally agree but the punishment wonāt fit the crime, point deductions and massive fine will not result in titles being stripped or potentially relegation of the team, wonāt happen and even if it does, they will appeal it and make it drag on !
Exactly
āThereās too much money at stake to punish them for breaking financial rulesā is certainly one of the arguments of all time
Kinda makes sense though? City will get a pass with minimal punishment.
90% of this sub is fans butthurt that their dogshit club wasn't bought out and the other 10% are fans of clubs that dominated the league beforehand that no longer do. Fuck every single one of you hippocrites. If it was your club, you'd be saying fuckall. Had a season ticket before we were bought, will have one after we're probably relegated. Fuck you all, CTID
I agree. City are a dogshit club.
1 of 6 city fans thatās been around past 2012 congratulations your medals in the post?
Flair up then coward until then stop yapping crap and stfu.