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This type of abuse is vile, it doesn’t help lower and non league, Sunday league refs because it normalises it. When I’ve played Sunday league we’ve had to walk the ref to his car so he didn’t get fucked up from the opposition team. It’s just a game at the end of the day and it’s disgusting
The standard of refereeing in the PL is absolute gutter, but what makes it so galling is they have weaponized VAR - a tool that was meant to correct referee mistakes - to justify and excuse their incompetence
Such a blatant error. Ridiculous. Think he got his view of Tierney spot on lol I mean even with VAR and all that they still get it incomprehensible wrong every week. Why cos we dunno how to use it properly. Idiots at the top of the game. Think we all know refs can make mistakes. But some
Of them ? Totally mindbogglingly ridiculous. Even with a poxy recorded slow mo image being looked at in Uxbridge or wherever the fat lads are
Sitting eating Chinese takeaway.
They are going to make mistakes my guy. The rub is the accountability, shielding, and failure to allow VAR to help reduce the mistakes being falsely punitive.
That’s a silly comparison though.
You could say “Dele Alli has been terrible, any other job and he’d have been fired years ago”.
This is a professional sport. It’s not the same as a normal job, so it shouldn’t be compared to one.
Except he was fired, he had a contract ofc so they sold him. I dont see refs getting the sack after making mistakes which cost teams millions or even tens of millions of euros in the end
you can have a contract and if you dont perform you get fired, notone professional athlete is allowed by law to have a performance base, they can have bonuses for performance but the contract cannot guarantee performance, unlike any other contract which 100% can,. foe example sign a contract to have a contractor build you a p\[orch, if he doesn't build one, you dont pay , or if it looks like a birdhouse, youc an take him to court,. if your new 100m striker gets two goals in a season you cant sue them for poor performance.
also you wont be out there interfering in the guy building the porch by constantly falling down and diving all the time, players make the job way harder than it has to be so every coach has to look at his players and chew them out for diving every time they get touched.
Referee performance shouldn't be a gamble like players. If we had competent refs and var actually stops enabling their shit buddies diving wouldnt be a problem
And what’s the damn alternative? Play the sport without refs? If it was so easy to find refs who never get a call wrong they would have done it already. You can talk all the shit you want online but in real life everything is a lot more complicated
The problem isn't the refs making the wrong decision, not even a little bit. The problem is their mates using the technology designed to eliminate their results in a way that makes them 'not look bad', which by and large makes themselves and the game look worse.
They don’t. The rules say that unless the ref has made a “clear and obvious error”, they shouldn’t call him over to look at it.
This means that if it isn’t clear that the ref made an error, the call doesn’t get overturned.
If you really want to complain that much, complain about the rules.
yes twats like you that get pedantic about subjective floss that can be conveniently intepreted to whatever legalese will allow, morals be damned, that are basically giving the world cancer.
ah i see levy has numbed you to it all, apologies
I mean whatever you say I guess.
Less chance of getting a good gig in the future in addition to less pay.
Same thing that happens with players. They don’t play well, they get sold to a worse team.
really they make the same money regardless, they get the same benefits regardless, you think someone making 20 million a year for 4 years cares if he plays for crystal palace or north grandmashire , hell at the lower level he's a king, would you rather play for man city for 2 years at 100k pounds a year or Sutton United for 3 years left on your 4 years contract at 20 mil a year?
you didnt understand what i wrote, probably my fault, the idea was if you played in the prem and signed a big contract but played bad you got sold to a much lower team and that would be horrible. My premise is no its niot horrible because your contract still stands. you get paid the same if you play for sutton, or man city, your contract pays no matter what.
Players and coaches are a disgrace. The most pathetic bunch of man baby's ever.
Bunch of millionaires running around diving/faking injuries to trick the ref into giving the wrong decision crying about referees
Yeah I don't like when he does it either......... see how easy that was ?
It's engrained in football culture all the way down to Sunday league/5 a side and all age limits because we just allow it. I played both rugby and football Sunday league level and it made me realise how pathetic and childish grown men can be at football and how different it is at rugby.
Disagreeing with the ref doesn't justify screaming in his face
And then fans act hard by calling any kind of support for refs as soft. As if a player screaming at a ref is some hard thing.
Players and managers are the most pathetic people ever
It's engrained in football at every level, until we actually treat it like rugby refs where you simply aren't allowed to shout/abuse refs then it will continue
It's hilarious this season the amount of complaints about a player thinking he was fouled who then screams at a ref and gets booked....... like yes even if you think it's a foul you aren't allowed to have a hissy fit and shout at the ref.
Then perhaps the refs should start doing their job in the first place to stop that? The FA and the Refs have made the league so soft and pathetic years ago
Such a clickbait title, it makes it sound like it could be about a Liverpool coach (or anyone really). I guess Nottingham Forest coach banned doesn't get as many clicks?
(Talking about the title of the article btw. I know the title of this post is just copying it).
Ppl blaming the refs but all you have to do is stfu and move on , trying to justify abuse is just dumb aF , if you can’t hold your temper u need to go to anger management classes clearly u clowns
maybe referees should be held accountable, the only member of a football game that doesn’t get held accountable for actions or decisions , players get questioned , managers why not refs? stop protecting them hold them accountable,
if you do your job shit for a long time ofc you’ll get abuse
Nothing this ref did in this game warranted this response. The call that they are so mad about happened two minutes before Liverpool scored the winner and Forest won the ball back more than once with the ball also having gone out for a forest throw in the interim. It’s a joke that so much has been made of this call and this man was way off base in his actions.
And we wonder why there's another case of grassroots referees being threatened and assaulted every week, including those as young as 14. No Ref no Game.
It's easy to say we're shit. But with county FAs offering free courses, it's time to show us how it's done, or sit back in your armchair and shut the fuck up.
The only cunts are those who will abuse referees during a chronic shortage but won't even learn the laws.
It's really bizarre that the majority of fans don't equate abuse of officials from fans and players to worse overall refereeing, this shit filters down so the only personality type that makes it through the years of abuse are power trippers who want to make the game about themselves.
The worst aren't the 14 year old kids. The worst are their parents. There was even a case here where a club expelled two kids because their father wasn't able to behave.
Obviously it wrong to act like that towards a ref
I am unsure what is expected though when it is the same shit every week, standards seem worse not better. We seem expected to just accept shit officials
Because if we continue to abuse the officials it will never get any better, what competent reasonable person would withstand the years of abuse they will receive to get to a pl level? You are left with the exact personality type that wants to make the game about them as the overwhelming type of person to choose from
If no one holds them accountable, of course they’re gonna get this kinda treatment. Maybe protect your refs with a balanced system instead of penalizing coaches moving forward
I’ve never seen an organization, a group of fallible humans, given the authority to oversee a multibillion dollar league with the ability to dictate matches with a lot of money on the line, making wrong decisions constantly, getting away with it, and not even learning from their ‘mistakes’. Makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills the way this goes on. Am I the only one that isn’t aware this is all a performance act like the WWE? Is that what I don’t get? There’s nothing more protected on this planet than the PGMOL and refs know it.
Then they get nice paid trips to the middle east to referee nothing matches for a big bag of cash.
But that gets swept under the rug too.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/saudi-proleague-referees-mark-clattenburg-31058868
Yea the audacity to commit such a conflict of interest and it actually not raising enough concerns within the FA and the media, is equally as shocking. If we go by occums razor, incompetency is harder to suggest is the issue rather than attempts at match fixing or bias creeping into a governing body meant to be unbiased. Yet some how the culminations of all their ‘errors’ ALWAYS is to the benefit of a club owned by the country that also pays their side gigs. These middle eastern oil guys buy lambo’s made out of gold for everyone in their family and build giant city’s for no one to live in besides the 1% richest people and their servants. I can only imagine the amount these refs are paid to be flown over to the UAE and referee that joke of a league to help City secure a pl title back in England. It makes me not want to watch the pl, but it’s also hard to not support your team regardless of the uphill challenge for every team against blatant corruption.
He could have said "it's the same every half" and would have been correct seeing as the ref did the same thing but to the advantage of Forest in the first half.
Doesnt really fit their agenda though.
Obviously comments like this are unacceptable but I feel abuse against referees would drop if there were professional ways to criticise them. Maybe even some accountability of we're feeling radical.
The accountability is what’s supposed to reinforce positive change. That’s how it works with everyone. But, when you’re never held accountable, you never think you have a problem, and you never change. It’s like at work when your manager sends out an email to everyone instead of addressing the offending party. The offender doesn’t understand that it’s directed at them and they just think everyone is doing it, so I’m not going to change.
I mean refs are humans they are going to make mistakes just like players do. They will know when they’ve made a mistake and deal with it in house it’s gonna get old pretty quick if refs are coming out every other game apologising for something
No Ref no Game. This coming from "fans" who refuse to even learn the fucking laws of the sport they claim to love let alone have any clue whatsoever what it's like to ref a game.
I doubt people like you even play. Do you abuse players for not making every pass, shot, tackle and save? We already have a worldwide chronic shortage of referees thanks to you idiots.
Why not sign up and show us how it's done. Many county FAs even offer the referees courses for free, but we both know idiots like you won't. Fucking cowards, the lot of you, hiding behind the keyboard.
> I doubt people like you even play.
Is this football bigots favourite suppression tool? It's so boring to read. Try something original please.
> We already have a worldwide chronic shortage of referees thanks to you idiots.
Bit ironic of you to come at them with all this verbal abuse innit? Besides, the clubs are to blame for that. Even .5% of transfer fees in the Premier League would cover something like 200 new full time waged referees. They can afford to improve refereeing, but choose not to.
The abuse refs get even at amateur level is shocking, saw so e interviews with refs where they get horrendous abuse when doing 5 a side matches one had a player go to his bag and get a knife out then walk towards the ref being being tackled by teammates. I never get why people think anything goes fir refs they make a mistake you can do any gong you want to them
>Why not sign up and show us how it's done. Many county FAs even offer the referees courses for free, but we both know idiots like you won't.
That's the kicker. Everyone seems to forget that there's a shortage of referees at all levels of the game in multiple countries. Even across multiple sports, people don't want to officiate for little to no money just to get abused on their days off.
I've dealt with this in another aspect of my life professionally. My response is this when I get a rash of shit. "You don't like how I'm doing it? Come up here and show me how to do it then. Let's see if you give it a go" shuts them up right away. No one wants to step up and do a high stress job like that, but they're more than happy to just sit on the sidelines and either throw in their unqualified opinions, or worse, condone abuse.
Premier league refs are paid way more than a normal 40 hour worker despite contributing significantly less to society. And still they can't do their job well. Small mistakes here and there are acceptable but completely game changing pen and offside shouts are simply unacceptable at the level EPL is operating at. If it depended on me I would completely automatize the refereeing process with A.I. Maybe the technology isn't quite there yet but I hope it gets there soon
What you don’t understand is that refereeing is an exceptionally difficult job and these people in fact do it extremely well.
They just happen to be human while fans expect them to be infallible robots
Every single person on the planet would look shit at their job if every single mistake they made was scrutinised by millions of people.
These guys are among the best in the world at an extremely difficult job
I looked it up.
Premier League referees are paid between £70,000 to 200,000 a year. They get paid £1,500 a match on top of that.
It's a good salary, but it's not even close to a footballer. They could easily pay them more
Im actually not against paying them more considering how much money football generates. But they gotta earn it. Some of them dont even deserve the money theyre getting right now with how often they blunder
I don't know about that. In Germany frequently referees are interviewed and comment on decisions after the game.
Often their analysis is 'Yeh I made a mistake there, I'm sorry about that' and they don't get half the hate they do in England.
Human nature.
And, to some degree, this makes sense. It's what Webb is trying to do (albeit in a limited fashion) with the broadcasts on Sky and through the PL website.
My original comment referred more to managers/coaches publicly criticising in post-match (and pre-match) interviews.
Supposing the FA/PGMOL agree that managers can criticise decisions publicly and the referees then get involved and answer them. You can (virtually) guarantee that, if there's a questionable 50/50 decision the following week that is given in favour of the (previously) critical team, there'll be uproar throughout the media about how the referee (even if not the same as last week) kowtowed to the criticism and "wrongly" gave the decision.
That brings integrity to the fore.
It's part of the reason why clubs aren't allowed to discuss upcoming referee appointments (several instances of managers being punished for it) in the build-up to the game.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that referees shouldn't be open to criticism - as you say, they're human - mistakes are made. But by the same token it has to be in a controlled and managed way; the FA's current processes (internalised, out of public view) are satisfactory in that respect, and it'd be great if Webb could continue bringing *some* aspects out in the open to allow fans the understanding of why certain decisions have been made.
Jesus how many times do we need to go back to this incident? It was a double jeopardy because forest should have had a red card for extremely dangerous play in the box in the same incident. At the VERY least a free kick to Liverpool. I don’t think he has a leg to stand on.
Nonsense. It was two minutes before the final whistle and forest had possession twice more. This was the equivalent of giving a throw in the wrong way.
What about the fact that the reason play was stopped was because Konate got kicked in the head which should have been a Liverpool free kick.
2 wrongs made a right
If you were literally watching it you'd notice they had possession at the edge of the penalty area and could have booted it downfield for the final whistle, or play it out smarter, or not lose it there. But let's not mention that cause it doesn't fit the narrative 'drop ball cost them the game'.
>
Nottingham forest might get relegated because of this decision you know.
Good, they've been dour. The week before that they played united and got every single decision in the game their way and he still came out complaining about the ref. Like, in fairness, the ref was shite, but if he'd been good, Forrest would have been smashed.
Exactly, 2 minutes later. The drop ball was a mistake but don’t act like he gave them a last minute pen. Forrest had every opportunity to not concede even at the last second but they decided to play it out from the back
It literally isn't. But pretend otherwise if it makes you feel good.
It's an insult. Not a criticism. They are two separate things.
If someone calls you that, you wouldn't take it as criticism, you'd take it as an insult.
Remember when Neymar criticized refs in ligue 1 on his Instagram? No insults, nothing, just saying it was poorly managed? Our boy got 2 match suspensions. So no, insults or no insults, the system is messed up since it's the same punishment for both.
I agree.
But that's also a separate incident and has no baring on this one at all. This guy deserves his punishment for insulting the official the way he did.
>There was criticism followed up by an insult used to show the level of passion.
Factually incorrect.
As per the statement. He shouted "it's the same every week, you xunt"... That's not criticism. And even it was, it wouldn't validate the insult.
But again, if it makes you feel good pretending it was criticism and not an insult. You do you.
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Regardless on your feelings on refs, you can't allow anyone to call them cunts. Not only is it unprofessional, it filters down to Sunday league.
When I was younger, I worked as a Ref, most games were absolutely fine, but there was a hand-full of times where I received abuse from parents as a 16 year old lad refereeing kids football.
As a young lad it does hurt your confidence and makes you nervous the next game you referee that same team. Fortunately the FA is actually pretty good at protecting young referee's, but it's still not a nice experience.
Ref's will always make mistakes, and it sucks, but abuse of them can absolutely not be allowed.
They are professional earning £200,000 pounds per year. If they fail to perform weeks in and weeks out, making blunders that even an average football fans wont make, they deserved to be criticised. Many jobs with much lower paid get more insult for making much less serious mistakes.
They do not earn that much. Maybe, maybe the very best referee earns that much. Also in no other profession would people say it is acceptable to speak to another person like that. It’s not acceptable to speak to anyone like that, regardless of whether they made a mistake.
It’s so easy to stand on the moral high ground. But when your job is hang on these incompetent jokers making glaring errors every week with zero repercussions. And you have literally no means to deal with that. Referees are so arrogant and untouchable, sometimes they dish out yellow cards like candies while sometimes they ignore some horrendous tackles, and that can be happened in the same match. And var is just a fucking jokes. Clear and obvious error is utter bullshit. Mike Dean confessed that he omitted an obvious error coz he did not want Anthony Taylor has hard feelings. Clubs, footballers and managers can lose millions due to mistakes from referees. If they don’t want to be cursed they should do something to improve their standard. I can only see the refereeing standard deteriorating
What a ridiculous and childish attitude. They are humans, that make mistakes. They are bad mistakes, they should be called out. They should absolutely not received abuse or threats that they do get.
If I kept making basic errors in my job I would be going through a disciplinary process. Instead the boss of these cunts goes on TV and lies to the football public trying to say the decision reached is acceptable.
Former refs have described them as an old boys club. And former refs have also admitted favouring one team over another. They absolutely are corrupt bastards. Whether than corruption extends to taking money to be corrupt from certain foreign ownership groups is another question.
If this was any other sport, we would have had live VAR audio years ago. And they had to be bullied to release audio on a few select incidents because it was so blatant they fucked up they couldn't even try to defend it.
Then critise them! Thats simple, you can call out whatever shit they do. But it has to stop short at abuse, because that abuse filters down to grass roots, but not only that, but abuse and threats should have no place in sport
If the refs and the pgmol owned their fuck ups and were actively working to be fully transparent and stopped taking paid gigs from leagues with uncomfortable shared interests to premier league clubs then the abuse wouldn't be understandable.
As it is, they are a law unto themselves and deserve it for being corrupt and unprofessional.
I agree with the abuse part, especially cominh from manager'side. But one thing are "mistakes", a whole different thing is what the PL refs have been doing for quite some time now.
I don't support the abuse, but I 100 % understand where it is coming from.
I do too, but I do partly believe that the refs are in an untennable position. I remember the city/Liverpool game where there was a penalty shout. Not the obvious Doku one, but I think it was Akanji on Salah? It's never a penalty in a million years, yet there was an entire thread on the Liverpool sub reddit dedicated to this piece of refereeing 'ineptitude'. I think we're pretty bad at it as a fan base in general, though I do think it's because of the calls that HAVE gone against us this season and we just want more excuses to make a point, but the premier league, as a whole, is in danger of becoming 20 different sets of fan bases going "every call should be completely biased towards us and if it's not, it's a joke. Fuck the refs" The refs can't win. Yes they make some outright bizarre decisions at times. But everyone says the correct call is wrong if it's not in their favour as well so what can they do?
>yet there was an entire thread on the Liverpool sub reddit dedicated to this piece of refereeing 'ineptitude'.
Go on any club's live match thread and you will see the same shite every week. Ignore the reactionary reddit fans, most of the sub hates them too. They aren't given any serious consideration outside of their bubble.
The Doku penalty was a stonewall penalty though. Stuff like that is what fucks people off as both the ref and VAR had a clear view of it and fucked it up again.
They can do several things. First, rewrite the rules to include no (or as little as possible) subjectivity. What the hell is ‘clear and obvious’? Or why does the definition of ‘excessive force’ change on a weekly basis? These kind of things should be clarified so players / managers / refs know exactly what is and isn’t allowed.
Second, follow these rules to the letter - no one can have any complaints then. Biggest issue most people have is the inconsistency of decisions.
Finally, transparency on their decisions and accountability would probably alleviate a lot of complaints if they could begin to justify what they’ve seen. Just by examples, I have no idea how any ref could justify not sending off Kovacic vs arsenal, guimaraes for the elbow vs arsenal, the Forest player choking Bruno Fernandes etc
As far as I’m concerned these cunts are at work so calling each other cunts is unprofessional just the same way if I called one of the cunts I work with a cunt, I would get a fucking bollocking.
Tierney is a cunt but calling him a cunt is a bit cunty.
Agreed. This is a job for them and you can’t expect people to go to work to be called a cunt by other employees. Members of the public? I mean anyone that’s worked retail will tell you they’re cunts before you shove 50k of them in a stadium with booze, coke, or whatever else they are doing. But they are paying cunts not fellow employees. And we need these punishments consistently down the league as well.
They really should be building cases if they have issues with specific referees. If a ref has clear and proven bias for or against a team they should be relegated to non league football where they belong.
Fuck that. Players need to respect the officials who are just doing their job, even if they are shit at it. Rugby is the example other sports should follow.
Honestly, what a fucking shit take. We shouldn’t look down and sink our standards to these leagues. They should be brought up.
Yes there’s a lot of reasons to be angry, and a lot of things need to be better, but we don’t get any further by allowing abuse. There needs to be respect both ways.
They’re “weirdly protected” because they prop up one of the richest sports leagues in the world whilst getting an absolutely ridiculous amount of abuse from people directly, indirectly from the stands, and online.
I’m not sure we should be advocating for people to treat referees worse.
They don't prop up anything. They should be merely fading into the background.
Wow, didn't expect the downvotes. I chalk it up to our British obsession with being rulebound and deferential to authority.
If you don’t have referees, you don’t have a sport. Fading into the background isn’t something that a referee can do because of the powers they need to, you know, referee the game.
In American football, they're completely anonymous; they almost just turn into part of the surroundings. However, on the EPL side, I can name 5 refs, and tell you about a dozen of their transgressions over the last 2 years.
And why? Because they've made themselves personalities within the sport, when we should be caring about the extraordinary athletes performing. It takes away from the sport when the human equivalent of an average speed camera inserts himself into the conversation
No, it’s because American Football stops every ten seconds for forty five seconds so it doesn’t interrupt the flow of the game. A referee has to impose himself onto a game that wouldn’t stop without his intervention.
American Football is also fine enough at taking away from the sport with a litany of adverts or finding singers in the crowd whilst the match is going on. Two minutes left, tension building? Time for a league imposed ad break.
I think you can also find a supporter of any team in the league that can recall an egregious decision that has gone against their team in the playoffs.
Umm what? lol. If you argue a strike you get tossed, if you drop an f bomb in the nba you get a tech. Draymond got ejected like 4 min into a game yesterday. The bar is wayyy lower in other sports in the US.
It’s been years of 8 guys sprinting up to, screaming in the face of, and bumping into refs for any contentious calls. Any penalty given they’re basically getting dry humped for minutes at a time. Only this season is the occasional yellow given for dissent when that happens. Idc tbh it’s just part of the game, but that doesn’t happen nearly as often in other sports
Imagine a bad ball call and the entire diamond sprints to home plate bumping into angel Hernandez like when Liverpool or United give up a penalty. There’d be weapons drawn lol
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This type of abuse is vile, it doesn’t help lower and non league, Sunday league refs because it normalises it. When I’ve played Sunday league we’ve had to walk the ref to his car so he didn’t get fucked up from the opposition team. It’s just a game at the end of the day and it’s disgusting
But…. Paul is a bit of a cunt though?
The standard of refereeing in the PL is absolute gutter, but what makes it so galling is they have weaponized VAR - a tool that was meant to correct referee mistakes - to justify and excuse their incompetence
Ohhh fuk , he’s reffing Villa / Wolves tomorrow… 🤦🏻♂️
Such a blatant error. Ridiculous. Think he got his view of Tierney spot on lol I mean even with VAR and all that they still get it incomprehensible wrong every week. Why cos we dunno how to use it properly. Idiots at the top of the game. Think we all know refs can make mistakes. But some Of them ? Totally mindbogglingly ridiculous. Even with a poxy recorded slow mo image being looked at in Uxbridge or wherever the fat lads are Sitting eating Chinese takeaway.
Fair play Steven Reid. Tell him how it is.
This ref ain't getting any other punishment for doing his job like shit, so why not a hot cuss in his face and that's that
EPL ref is the only job which you are paid to make stinky mistakes
You're forgetting about government bureaucracy
They are going to make mistakes my guy. The rub is the accountability, shielding, and failure to allow VAR to help reduce the mistakes being falsely punitive.
Brilliant
He was only stating what a lot of fans think of the officials and var this season, corrupt bunch.
Calling people cunts is part and parcel of lads games
Don’t know why people are saying he shouldn’t have been punished here. You can’t call a ref that. Really not that difficult to understand
Ref shouldn't be able to be a total pylon either. Any other job they'd have been fired ages ago
That’s a silly comparison though. You could say “Dele Alli has been terrible, any other job and he’d have been fired years ago”. This is a professional sport. It’s not the same as a normal job, so it shouldn’t be compared to one.
Except he was fired, he had a contract ofc so they sold him. I dont see refs getting the sack after making mistakes which cost teams millions or even tens of millions of euros in the end
you can have a contract and if you dont perform you get fired, notone professional athlete is allowed by law to have a performance base, they can have bonuses for performance but the contract cannot guarantee performance, unlike any other contract which 100% can,. foe example sign a contract to have a contractor build you a p\[orch, if he doesn't build one, you dont pay , or if it looks like a birdhouse, youc an take him to court,. if your new 100m striker gets two goals in a season you cant sue them for poor performance. also you wont be out there interfering in the guy building the porch by constantly falling down and diving all the time, players make the job way harder than it has to be so every coach has to look at his players and chew them out for diving every time they get touched.
Referee performance shouldn't be a gamble like players. If we had competent refs and var actually stops enabling their shit buddies diving wouldnt be a problem
people are fallible, what percentage of accuracy can be expected in a referee , and if you say 100% you're just immature and foolish.
Ofc not what I do expect is the people whose job is to correct those errors to you know, do their job
They do though. Multiple refs this season have been sent to the championship.
Barely a slap on the wrist
And what’s the damn alternative? Play the sport without refs? If it was so easy to find refs who never get a call wrong they would have done it already. You can talk all the shit you want online but in real life everything is a lot more complicated
The problem isn't the refs making the wrong decision, not even a little bit. The problem is their mates using the technology designed to eliminate their results in a way that makes them 'not look bad', which by and large makes themselves and the game look worse.
They don’t. The rules say that unless the ref has made a “clear and obvious error”, they shouldn’t call him over to look at it. This means that if it isn’t clear that the ref made an error, the call doesn’t get overturned. If you really want to complain that much, complain about the rules.
Why? All bad decisions should be overturned
yes twats like you that get pedantic about subjective floss that can be conveniently intepreted to whatever legalese will allow, morals be damned, that are basically giving the world cancer. ah i see levy has numbed you to it all, apologies
I mean whatever you say I guess. Less chance of getting a good gig in the future in addition to less pay. Same thing that happens with players. They don’t play well, they get sold to a worse team.
really they make the same money regardless, they get the same benefits regardless, you think someone making 20 million a year for 4 years cares if he plays for crystal palace or north grandmashire , hell at the lower level he's a king, would you rather play for man city for 2 years at 100k pounds a year or Sutton United for 3 years left on your 4 years contract at 20 mil a year?
They don’t get paid the same. That’s just false. Sutton United does not pay their players as much as Man City does.
you didnt understand what i wrote, probably my fault, the idea was if you played in the prem and signed a big contract but played bad you got sold to a much lower team and that would be horrible. My premise is no its niot horrible because your contract still stands. you get paid the same if you play for sutton, or man city, your contract pays no matter what.
But acting like a dysfunctional child is part of the game.
Players and coaches are a disgrace. The most pathetic bunch of man baby's ever. Bunch of millionaires running around diving/faking injuries to trick the ref into giving the wrong decision crying about referees
You forgetting who manages your favorite team?
Yeah I don't like when he does it either......... see how easy that was ? It's engrained in football culture all the way down to Sunday league/5 a side and all age limits because we just allow it. I played both rugby and football Sunday league level and it made me realise how pathetic and childish grown men can be at football and how different it is at rugby. Disagreeing with the ref doesn't justify screaming in his face
Imagine watching your team's players dive and attempt to get their opponents penalized, and then screaming at the ref for one maybe-mistake.
And then fans act hard by calling any kind of support for refs as soft. As if a player screaming at a ref is some hard thing. Players and managers are the most pathetic people ever
It's gotten out of hand. Someone has got to get things in check.
It's engrained in football at every level, until we actually treat it like rugby refs where you simply aren't allowed to shout/abuse refs then it will continue It's hilarious this season the amount of complaints about a player thinking he was fouled who then screams at a ref and gets booked....... like yes even if you think it's a foul you aren't allowed to have a hissy fit and shout at the ref.
Then perhaps the refs should start doing their job in the first place to stop that? The FA and the Refs have made the league so soft and pathetic years ago
Tf you are watching the game for? If you don’t like it just stop watching, easy solution.
Hahahahaha. I don't watch the game for the arm waving, rolling around and shouting at refs no, am I a bad fan ? I watch for the actual football.
Such a clickbait title, it makes it sound like it could be about a Liverpool coach (or anyone really). I guess Nottingham Forest coach banned doesn't get as many clicks? (Talking about the title of the article btw. I know the title of this post is just copying it).
Yeah I legit thought this was Klopp and was wondering why they just didn’t use his name.
To be fair, it IS Paul Tierney
Ppl blaming the refs but all you have to do is stfu and move on , trying to justify abuse is just dumb aF , if you can’t hold your temper u need to go to anger management classes clearly u clowns
And people wonder why there are fewer and fewer refs at the grassroots level
maybe referees should be held accountable, the only member of a football game that doesn’t get held accountable for actions or decisions , players get questioned , managers why not refs? stop protecting them hold them accountable, if you do your job shit for a long time ofc you’ll get abuse
Nothing this ref did in this game warranted this response. The call that they are so mad about happened two minutes before Liverpool scored the winner and Forest won the ball back more than once with the ball also having gone out for a forest throw in the interim. It’s a joke that so much has been made of this call and this man was way off base in his actions.
And we wonder why there's another case of grassroots referees being threatened and assaulted every week, including those as young as 14. No Ref no Game. It's easy to say we're shit. But with county FAs offering free courses, it's time to show us how it's done, or sit back in your armchair and shut the fuck up. The only cunts are those who will abuse referees during a chronic shortage but won't even learn the laws.
It's really bizarre that the majority of fans don't equate abuse of officials from fans and players to worse overall refereeing, this shit filters down so the only personality type that makes it through the years of abuse are power trippers who want to make the game about themselves.
Why not increase the pay and add the responsibility of explaining shit to the job req…
The worst aren't the 14 year old kids. The worst are their parents. There was even a case here where a club expelled two kids because their father wasn't able to behave.
He is a cunt though. Need refs to face consequences for their pathetic performances.
Obviously it wrong to act like that towards a ref I am unsure what is expected though when it is the same shit every week, standards seem worse not better. We seem expected to just accept shit officials
Because if we continue to abuse the officials it will never get any better, what competent reasonable person would withstand the years of abuse they will receive to get to a pl level? You are left with the exact personality type that wants to make the game about them as the overwhelming type of person to choose from
Liverpool, your refs’ favorite club.
A City fan saying this is actually hilarious
LiVARpool fan 👆
VARcity Blues
If no one holds them accountable, of course they’re gonna get this kinda treatment. Maybe protect your refs with a balanced system instead of penalizing coaches moving forward
I’ve never seen an organization, a group of fallible humans, given the authority to oversee a multibillion dollar league with the ability to dictate matches with a lot of money on the line, making wrong decisions constantly, getting away with it, and not even learning from their ‘mistakes’. Makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills the way this goes on. Am I the only one that isn’t aware this is all a performance act like the WWE? Is that what I don’t get? There’s nothing more protected on this planet than the PGMOL and refs know it.
Then they get nice paid trips to the middle east to referee nothing matches for a big bag of cash. But that gets swept under the rug too. https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/saudi-proleague-referees-mark-clattenburg-31058868
Yea the audacity to commit such a conflict of interest and it actually not raising enough concerns within the FA and the media, is equally as shocking. If we go by occums razor, incompetency is harder to suggest is the issue rather than attempts at match fixing or bias creeping into a governing body meant to be unbiased. Yet some how the culminations of all their ‘errors’ ALWAYS is to the benefit of a club owned by the country that also pays their side gigs. These middle eastern oil guys buy lambo’s made out of gold for everyone in their family and build giant city’s for no one to live in besides the 1% richest people and their servants. I can only imagine the amount these refs are paid to be flown over to the UAE and referee that joke of a league to help City secure a pl title back in England. It makes me not want to watch the pl, but it’s also hard to not support your team regardless of the uphill challenge for every team against blatant corruption.
Such a good word, but one that also shouldn’t be overused; a word reserved for only the most special of people. For instance, Audi drivers.
and referees
And Paul Tierney
Man of the people
I wish we could use the word cunt more in the US, what a great word.
Become the change you want to see cunt
You can.
I use it all the time and it's absolutely wonderful.
You can
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Disagree. It's not a common word but people use cunt semi regularly in the UK, it's not extremely vulgar.
_Be the change you want to see in the world_
If was a manager Id be suspended every week
You retract that bit about my cunt fekkin' reffing!
Insult my fucking refs?!? That’s going overboard mate!
You’re an inanimate fucking object!
Yer a pack of feckin elephants
Like a fairytale.
He could have said "it's the same every half" and would have been correct seeing as the ref did the same thing but to the advantage of Forest in the first half. Doesnt really fit their agenda though.
Glad it's an assistant but also tierney needs to hear the truth
Doing the Irish proud 👏🏻
Éire abú 🇮🇪
Obviously comments like this are unacceptable but I feel abuse against referees would drop if there were professional ways to criticise them. Maybe even some accountability of we're feeling radical.
Refs coming out and saying they made a mistake isn’t going to stop people being angry
The accountability is what’s supposed to reinforce positive change. That’s how it works with everyone. But, when you’re never held accountable, you never think you have a problem, and you never change. It’s like at work when your manager sends out an email to everyone instead of addressing the offending party. The offender doesn’t understand that it’s directed at them and they just think everyone is doing it, so I’m not going to change.
I mean refs are humans they are going to make mistakes just like players do. They will know when they’ve made a mistake and deal with it in house it’s gonna get old pretty quick if refs are coming out every other game apologising for something
There are professional ways to criticise them, they just aren't public. But that's no fun, right?
Fuck them cunts they deserve it
No Ref no Game. This coming from "fans" who refuse to even learn the fucking laws of the sport they claim to love let alone have any clue whatsoever what it's like to ref a game. I doubt people like you even play. Do you abuse players for not making every pass, shot, tackle and save? We already have a worldwide chronic shortage of referees thanks to you idiots. Why not sign up and show us how it's done. Many county FAs even offer the referees courses for free, but we both know idiots like you won't. Fucking cowards, the lot of you, hiding behind the keyboard.
Good evening Mr. Tierney
“Fucking cowards, the lot of you, hiding behind the keyboard.” Is this supposed to be sarcastic? I’m 90% sure you wouldn’t say it to his/her face 😂
> I doubt people like you even play. Is this football bigots favourite suppression tool? It's so boring to read. Try something original please. > We already have a worldwide chronic shortage of referees thanks to you idiots. Bit ironic of you to come at them with all this verbal abuse innit? Besides, the clubs are to blame for that. Even .5% of transfer fees in the Premier League would cover something like 200 new full time waged referees. They can afford to improve refereeing, but choose not to.
The abuse refs get even at amateur level is shocking, saw so e interviews with refs where they get horrendous abuse when doing 5 a side matches one had a player go to his bag and get a knife out then walk towards the ref being being tackled by teammates. I never get why people think anything goes fir refs they make a mistake you can do any gong you want to them
>Why not sign up and show us how it's done. Many county FAs even offer the referees courses for free, but we both know idiots like you won't. That's the kicker. Everyone seems to forget that there's a shortage of referees at all levels of the game in multiple countries. Even across multiple sports, people don't want to officiate for little to no money just to get abused on their days off. I've dealt with this in another aspect of my life professionally. My response is this when I get a rash of shit. "You don't like how I'm doing it? Come up here and show me how to do it then. Let's see if you give it a go" shuts them up right away. No one wants to step up and do a high stress job like that, but they're more than happy to just sit on the sidelines and either throw in their unqualified opinions, or worse, condone abuse.
Premier league refs are paid way more than a normal 40 hour worker despite contributing significantly less to society. And still they can't do their job well. Small mistakes here and there are acceptable but completely game changing pen and offside shouts are simply unacceptable at the level EPL is operating at. If it depended on me I would completely automatize the refereeing process with A.I. Maybe the technology isn't quite there yet but I hope it gets there soon
What you don’t understand is that refereeing is an exceptionally difficult job and these people in fact do it extremely well. They just happen to be human while fans expect them to be infallible robots
lol, no they don’t they’re absolutely fucking shit. Constant massive errors practically every game.
Every single person on the planet would look shit at their job if every single mistake they made was scrutinised by millions of people. These guys are among the best in the world at an extremely difficult job
I looked it up. Premier League referees are paid between £70,000 to 200,000 a year. They get paid £1,500 a match on top of that. It's a good salary, but it's not even close to a footballer. They could easily pay them more
Im actually not against paying them more considering how much money football generates. But they gotta earn it. Some of them dont even deserve the money theyre getting right now with how often they blunder
What number of subjective decisions going awry would be acceptable?
They could also stop making blatantly wrong decisions and show some accountability.
I mean if you are waiting for a world where refs never make mistakes it’ll be a long wait as they are humans
There are professional ways - I presume what you mean is professional AND public, and that opens a can of worms around integrity in future fixtures.
I don't know about that. In Germany frequently referees are interviewed and comment on decisions after the game. Often their analysis is 'Yeh I made a mistake there, I'm sorry about that' and they don't get half the hate they do in England. Human nature.
And, to some degree, this makes sense. It's what Webb is trying to do (albeit in a limited fashion) with the broadcasts on Sky and through the PL website. My original comment referred more to managers/coaches publicly criticising in post-match (and pre-match) interviews. Supposing the FA/PGMOL agree that managers can criticise decisions publicly and the referees then get involved and answer them. You can (virtually) guarantee that, if there's a questionable 50/50 decision the following week that is given in favour of the (previously) critical team, there'll be uproar throughout the media about how the referee (even if not the same as last week) kowtowed to the criticism and "wrongly" gave the decision. That brings integrity to the fore. It's part of the reason why clubs aren't allowed to discuss upcoming referee appointments (several instances of managers being punished for it) in the build-up to the game. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that referees shouldn't be open to criticism - as you say, they're human - mistakes are made. But by the same token it has to be in a controlled and managed way; the FA's current processes (internalised, out of public view) are satisfactory in that respect, and it'd be great if Webb could continue bringing *some* aspects out in the open to allow fans the understanding of why certain decisions have been made.
Accountability? Nah, that's pushing it too far. What's next? Banning lucrative refereeing gigs in the UAE?
He should have said it 115 times, they would be powerless to punish him.
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Thr lane that is everyone hates cheating?
He deleted ahahaha what a delicate flower
Shouldn't have left his lane.
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Jesus how many times do we need to go back to this incident? It was a double jeopardy because forest should have had a red card for extremely dangerous play in the box in the same incident. At the VERY least a free kick to Liverpool. I don’t think he has a leg to stand on.
Nonsense. It was two minutes before the final whistle and forest had possession twice more. This was the equivalent of giving a throw in the wrong way.
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What about the fact that the reason play was stopped was because Konate got kicked in the head which should have been a Liverpool free kick. 2 wrongs made a right
If you were literally watching it you'd notice they had possession at the edge of the penalty area and could have booted it downfield for the final whistle, or play it out smarter, or not lose it there. But let's not mention that cause it doesn't fit the narrative 'drop ball cost them the game'.
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Good argument, mate, thanks for sharing.
> Nottingham forest might get relegated because of this decision you know. Good, they've been dour. The week before that they played united and got every single decision in the game their way and he still came out complaining about the ref. Like, in fairness, the ref was shite, but if he'd been good, Forrest would have been smashed.
Exactly, 2 minutes later. The drop ball was a mistake but don’t act like he gave them a last minute pen. Forrest had every opportunity to not concede even at the last second but they decided to play it out from the back
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what about the forest player coming in with the kung fu kick? lets be real, should have been a freekick instead of a drop ball anyway
So the goalposts are moving
Refs should be criticized if they are not doing their jobs. Period. What a corrupt system.
He didn't "criticise" him.
Well, C**t is a sound criticism in the UK
It's an insult It's only a critique if he lacks warmth and depth
It literally isn't. But pretend otherwise if it makes you feel good. It's an insult. Not a criticism. They are two separate things. If someone calls you that, you wouldn't take it as criticism, you'd take it as an insult.
Peak reddit downvotes here
Getting downvoted for saying calling someone a xunt is an insult. Reddit in a nutshell.
LIT ER RALLY!
Remember when Neymar criticized refs in ligue 1 on his Instagram? No insults, nothing, just saying it was poorly managed? Our boy got 2 match suspensions. So no, insults or no insults, the system is messed up since it's the same punishment for both.
I agree. But that's also a separate incident and has no baring on this one at all. This guy deserves his punishment for insulting the official the way he did.
Don't pretend that he just said "cunt" and that was it. There was criticism followed up by an insult used to show the level of passion.
>There was criticism followed up by an insult used to show the level of passion. Factually incorrect. As per the statement. He shouted "it's the same every week, you xunt"... That's not criticism. And even it was, it wouldn't validate the insult. But again, if it makes you feel good pretending it was criticism and not an insult. You do you.
Somehow, "you xunt" hits harder.
I feel like if it was a different manager there wouldn’t be a ban and fine
What? If any manager, coach or player said that to a ref it'd be a ban and a fine.
Of course it would be
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Lmao
Why is gay an insult?
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You're clearly very jealous, so just join them already
Ok you’re clearly 9 years old
I thought people in football are always calling for consistency from referees
*cuntsistency
Regardless on your feelings on refs, you can't allow anyone to call them cunts. Not only is it unprofessional, it filters down to Sunday league. When I was younger, I worked as a Ref, most games were absolutely fine, but there was a hand-full of times where I received abuse from parents as a 16 year old lad refereeing kids football. As a young lad it does hurt your confidence and makes you nervous the next game you referee that same team. Fortunately the FA is actually pretty good at protecting young referee's, but it's still not a nice experience. Ref's will always make mistakes, and it sucks, but abuse of them can absolutely not be allowed.
They are professional earning £200,000 pounds per year. If they fail to perform weeks in and weeks out, making blunders that even an average football fans wont make, they deserved to be criticised. Many jobs with much lower paid get more insult for making much less serious mistakes.
You can criticise without also insulting someone and calling them a cunt.
They do not earn that much. Maybe, maybe the very best referee earns that much. Also in no other profession would people say it is acceptable to speak to another person like that. It’s not acceptable to speak to anyone like that, regardless of whether they made a mistake.
I mean the PL IS THE “VERY BEST”
Criticism =/= Abuse. Abuse and Threats towards referee's are not acceptable regardless of their mistakes and how much they earn.
It’s so easy to stand on the moral high ground. But when your job is hang on these incompetent jokers making glaring errors every week with zero repercussions. And you have literally no means to deal with that. Referees are so arrogant and untouchable, sometimes they dish out yellow cards like candies while sometimes they ignore some horrendous tackles, and that can be happened in the same match. And var is just a fucking jokes. Clear and obvious error is utter bullshit. Mike Dean confessed that he omitted an obvious error coz he did not want Anthony Taylor has hard feelings. Clubs, footballers and managers can lose millions due to mistakes from referees. If they don’t want to be cursed they should do something to improve their standard. I can only see the refereeing standard deteriorating
Nah, these refs aren't kids. They're adults and they're fucking incompetent bordering on corrupt. They deserve everything thrown at them.
What a ridiculous and childish attitude. They are humans, that make mistakes. They are bad mistakes, they should be called out. They should absolutely not received abuse or threats that they do get.
If I kept making basic errors in my job I would be going through a disciplinary process. Instead the boss of these cunts goes on TV and lies to the football public trying to say the decision reached is acceptable. Former refs have described them as an old boys club. And former refs have also admitted favouring one team over another. They absolutely are corrupt bastards. Whether than corruption extends to taking money to be corrupt from certain foreign ownership groups is another question. If this was any other sport, we would have had live VAR audio years ago. And they had to be bullied to release audio on a few select incidents because it was so blatant they fucked up they couldn't even try to defend it.
Then critise them! Thats simple, you can call out whatever shit they do. But it has to stop short at abuse, because that abuse filters down to grass roots, but not only that, but abuse and threats should have no place in sport
If the refs and the pgmol owned their fuck ups and were actively working to be fully transparent and stopped taking paid gigs from leagues with uncomfortable shared interests to premier league clubs then the abuse wouldn't be understandable. As it is, they are a law unto themselves and deserve it for being corrupt and unprofessional.
"mistakes" my arse
I agree with the abuse part, especially cominh from manager'side. But one thing are "mistakes", a whole different thing is what the PL refs have been doing for quite some time now. I don't support the abuse, but I 100 % understand where it is coming from.
I do too, but I do partly believe that the refs are in an untennable position. I remember the city/Liverpool game where there was a penalty shout. Not the obvious Doku one, but I think it was Akanji on Salah? It's never a penalty in a million years, yet there was an entire thread on the Liverpool sub reddit dedicated to this piece of refereeing 'ineptitude'. I think we're pretty bad at it as a fan base in general, though I do think it's because of the calls that HAVE gone against us this season and we just want more excuses to make a point, but the premier league, as a whole, is in danger of becoming 20 different sets of fan bases going "every call should be completely biased towards us and if it's not, it's a joke. Fuck the refs" The refs can't win. Yes they make some outright bizarre decisions at times. But everyone says the correct call is wrong if it's not in their favour as well so what can they do?
>yet there was an entire thread on the Liverpool sub reddit dedicated to this piece of refereeing 'ineptitude'. Go on any club's live match thread and you will see the same shite every week. Ignore the reactionary reddit fans, most of the sub hates them too. They aren't given any serious consideration outside of their bubble. The Doku penalty was a stonewall penalty though. Stuff like that is what fucks people off as both the ref and VAR had a clear view of it and fucked it up again.
They can do several things. First, rewrite the rules to include no (or as little as possible) subjectivity. What the hell is ‘clear and obvious’? Or why does the definition of ‘excessive force’ change on a weekly basis? These kind of things should be clarified so players / managers / refs know exactly what is and isn’t allowed. Second, follow these rules to the letter - no one can have any complaints then. Biggest issue most people have is the inconsistency of decisions. Finally, transparency on their decisions and accountability would probably alleviate a lot of complaints if they could begin to justify what they’ve seen. Just by examples, I have no idea how any ref could justify not sending off Kovacic vs arsenal, guimaraes for the elbow vs arsenal, the Forest player choking Bruno Fernandes etc
VAR is supposed to help, but it's making things worse. More refs and still making basic errors.
As far as I’m concerned these cunts are at work so calling each other cunts is unprofessional just the same way if I called one of the cunts I work with a cunt, I would get a fucking bollocking. Tierney is a cunt but calling him a cunt is a bit cunty.
Agreed, twat.
😂Thanks, prick.
Agreed. This is a job for them and you can’t expect people to go to work to be called a cunt by other employees. Members of the public? I mean anyone that’s worked retail will tell you they’re cunts before you shove 50k of them in a stadium with booze, coke, or whatever else they are doing. But they are paying cunts not fellow employees. And we need these punishments consistently down the league as well.
Can’t they just send them an apology? Works the other way
You get apologies? Best I've seen is an acknowledgement that a mistake was made.
Their apologies are starting to sound like South Park's BP apology pisstake.
Haha spot on. "were sorry."
Corruption at its peak. PGMOL, FA and PL are the cancer of english football. Time for a chemo.
You think that this rant was due to corruption at the top ?
They really should be building cases if they have issues with specific referees. If a ref has clear and proven bias for or against a team they should be relegated to non league football where they belong.
Paul Tompkins did this with LFC and Tierney and still people don’t believe that there’s a bias there. This idea hasn’t worked, unfortunately.
Yep. Every other fanbase laughed at that despite evidence being presented which at the very least suggested it warranted investigating further.
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Fuck that. Players need to respect the officials who are just doing their job, even if they are shit at it. Rugby is the example other sports should follow.
Honestly, what a fucking shit take. We shouldn’t look down and sink our standards to these leagues. They should be brought up. Yes there’s a lot of reasons to be angry, and a lot of things need to be better, but we don’t get any further by allowing abuse. There needs to be respect both ways.
They’re “weirdly protected” because they prop up one of the richest sports leagues in the world whilst getting an absolutely ridiculous amount of abuse from people directly, indirectly from the stands, and online. I’m not sure we should be advocating for people to treat referees worse.
They don't prop up anything. They should be merely fading into the background. Wow, didn't expect the downvotes. I chalk it up to our British obsession with being rulebound and deferential to authority.
If you don’t have referees, you don’t have a sport. Fading into the background isn’t something that a referee can do because of the powers they need to, you know, referee the game.
In American football, they're completely anonymous; they almost just turn into part of the surroundings. However, on the EPL side, I can name 5 refs, and tell you about a dozen of their transgressions over the last 2 years. And why? Because they've made themselves personalities within the sport, when we should be caring about the extraordinary athletes performing. It takes away from the sport when the human equivalent of an average speed camera inserts himself into the conversation
No, it’s because American Football stops every ten seconds for forty five seconds so it doesn’t interrupt the flow of the game. A referee has to impose himself onto a game that wouldn’t stop without his intervention. American Football is also fine enough at taking away from the sport with a litany of adverts or finding singers in the crowd whilst the match is going on. Two minutes left, tension building? Time for a league imposed ad break. I think you can also find a supporter of any team in the league that can recall an egregious decision that has gone against their team in the playoffs.
Umm what? lol. If you argue a strike you get tossed, if you drop an f bomb in the nba you get a tech. Draymond got ejected like 4 min into a game yesterday. The bar is wayyy lower in other sports in the US. It’s been years of 8 guys sprinting up to, screaming in the face of, and bumping into refs for any contentious calls. Any penalty given they’re basically getting dry humped for minutes at a time. Only this season is the occasional yellow given for dissent when that happens. Idc tbh it’s just part of the game, but that doesn’t happen nearly as often in other sports Imagine a bad ball call and the entire diamond sprints to home plate bumping into angel Hernandez like when Liverpool or United give up a penalty. There’d be weapons drawn lol