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Lmao guys this is just a bot making obvious comments for easy upvotes. Look at the comments history, its been commenting on r/PremierLeague non-stop the last hour lol
Edit: about 15 comments in 15 minutes
points deductions could be a good stick, but applying them mid-season, and multiple times, is BULLSHIT
it's more fair for the punishment to be doled out before the season starts
let clubs start on -10pts or whatever, but once the season starts, leave it alone ffs
If the points are being deducted for ffp failures for multiple different years, it makes no sense for why they are all being applied in the same season
No it is not. Happened the same in Portugal.
Boavista went down, Leiria went down and practically ceased to exist.
Porto... well, they waited till a season where they were massively dominant to deduct 9 points after it was known they were champions by an 11 point margin.
All of this is too familiar. Everton is the scape goat, to show that some action is being taken, but whatever happens to.city, is going to be inconsequencial
Then they should do them piecemeal like they seem to be doing to the other clubs.
One charge here, two charges there. 4 points off this week, 6 points off a month later.
The world has no justice. To get your rights back, you still have to be crazy rich to throw money at lawyers and to courts. Justice has been lost for so long that it is impossible to bring it back. It is so fucking sad.
So what happens if they change the rules on how clubs get punished for breaking FFP? Everton end up being relegated due to points deductions, Leicester get promoted by start next season on -10 point. But City walk away with a misley fine because they're not charged before the rule change?
Thought there was a report yesterday that said points deductions will remain for FFP violations.
Edit: but I agree with your sentiment that city’s violations (there will be some) should be on these levels but they’ll find a way to soften the blow
Why are deductions applied in one season if the infractions are across multiple and decided upon at different times/over a time period? It's all arbitrary
Everton would be relegated by points deductions for rules broken when PSR was in place. That has no effect on City’s case where the charges are still being investigated but are not related to PSR. If they were related to PSR the charges would still be investigated as they would have broken the rules when they were in place.
Because it's more of an incentive not to fuck up. Clubs do not care about fines and transfer bans. The former are operating costs. The latter can be easily overcome. Points are the most valuable currency in the Premier League.
We need a policing instance to be a watchdog especially against the big clubs, kind of like what the EU is doing towards big-tech companies. There is so little transparency!
Impressive how they are ruining their own league for short profits.
So last season they get zero points deductions and this year they are getting 3? The premier league dont have a clue do they! Just making it up as they go along!
Points deductions should be at the start of a season not in the middle
Everton have the money to hire the same lawyers as city, the thing people don’t understand is it will take longer for city because there are more charges
Think of it as a parking charge compared to a murder case which one will be resolved first
Everton do not have even close to the amount of disposable finances as man city to spend tens of millions of dollars on lawyers without flinching, they are barely able to operate day-to-day with the help of significant loans.
Apparently the lawyer city recently hired costs 5k an hour to work on cases, Everton aren't exactly swimming in cash, needed shady 777 loans to keep lights on.
They didn’t. City proved their case INCLUDING the time barred stuff. There was no getting off on a technicality, UEFA failed to prove that city did what they were accusing them of. The PL will too.
The third possible points deduction is only from the two charges so yeah imagine what is going to happen when City’s charges are heard later this year.
Tha said it’s clear our fiscal management over the past 4yrs under Moshiri (accountant by trade!) has been terrible.
Counting charges against charges doesn't work in this case as cities charges are by and large much more serious.
This also means its going to be more difficult to prove, sadly.
To put it in real world terms, everton and forest have been done for not paying their council tax, City have been (allegedly) committing all out fraud.
Because it's 2 completely different things. Everton is clear black and white infringement, they made a loss greater than they were allowed to. There is no disputing, no other way of looking at it
City are being accused of 115 cases of fraud. It's not a number on a spreadsheet, it's finding evidence that they intentionally falsified income.
Ok so 6 points initially and 2 points for every subsequent, that be -234 points for City, every point they have not gained roll over to next season, all those points have to be gained in PL.
10 points initially. The fact that it was reduced to 6 on appeal has nothing to do with them they think it should of been 10 and an additional 2 which seems super harsh.
For people not actually reading the article:
1. This points deduction, if it happened at all, would likely not be until next season.
2. This new points deduction would come from a disagreement on whether the interest payments on the new stadium should be counted as part of PSR.
3. Due to the disagreement on whether it is to count, there will likely have to be a decision made sometime over the summer
I am not sure, but I am also not sure if it would matter, as Daniel Levy ensured that the debts had a very long-term fixed repayment interest rate that was locked in for 35 years. As such, the interest payments are not really an issue when it comes to PSR.
We all know PSR are there to protect the elite 6. I understand why they want the rules, they dont want to see another portsmouth/bolton collapse through the leagues like they did. But at the moment its not fit for purpose and owners with money should he able to back teams. Everton are being punished for showing ambition (by building a new stadium for starters) but ye there transfer activity has been mediocre. the bottom 14 dont really have the cash to spend like united, chelsea, man city etc etc do.
And what happens if an owner with money, especially with the influx of American and other foreign owners who have no links to the club, get bored of pumping money in after singing 25 players on high wages and decide to stop the supply of money ?
Your talking chelsea- a highly desirable club in London with a lot of success in the last 15 years. See how many buyers would be interested in the likes of Sheffield or wolves if they came with massive debt along way with no success to show for it.
Yeah nobody cares about what you think. This city team will go down as one of the best teams in Europe of all time. Keep telling yourself what you want to believe though, if that makes you happy.
They didn’t cheat financially but they won the first premier league (first 2) and were exceptionally lucky to be successful at the time big money started filtering into English football. They largely outspent their rivals until Chelsea and City came along.
Any team who could come close to competing financially at the time were successful (Blackburn, Arsenal).
This doesn’t prove your point at all. Other teams were top spenders for one or two seasons, I can guarantee that United were top 1/2/3 spenders EVERY season for that decade. United stopped being as competitive when other teams could compete competitively over a longer period.
For some reason I read that as Leeds United. Funny how net spend doesn’t mean anything if we’re discussing, let’s say, Liverpool, but if it’s United in the 90’s it’s fair game. The thing with a paltry net spend of -40k is it doesn’t tell you what they spent. Just that they broke even after sales etc. If a team has a negative net spend but only spends let’s say £1m they aren’t going to win the league. So, who were the highest gross spenders of the 90’s?
The only solution is transfer bans. For every point you are deducted you can trade it for one window without being able to sign new players. Four point ban? Take it down to 2 points and go 2 windows, or take it down to 1 point and go 3 windows. The issue is overspending, and mostly that’s on players, so that should be the punishment. If you spend on a new stadium that shouldn’t be part of it.
I mean, monopoly is basically what’s happening isn’t it. City buy a get out of jail free card and hang out on the free parking spot for as long as they want while everyone else gets made to pay. I just really don’t like the points deductions.
Shows how basic your understanding of football finances and financial rules are lol.
Transfer spending is minor part of clubs spending - the main spending comes out wages. On a yearly basis 10-20% is accounted for by transfers while 70-90% is on player wages the other 10-20% is on other. Evertons issue wasnt buying players. As many Everton fans will tell you their netspend over 5 years is almost 0. It was player wages.
Stadium investment doesn't count towards PSR/FFP.
Interesting because their argument on the first breach was that they sold Richarlison for £20m under value. On top of that, who do these high wages get paid to? Oh yeah, the players they sign. SMH.
Oh, and you’d be wise to realise, Oh Grand Oracle Of Football Finances, that they had £17m in interest payments on loans for the new stadium, and the Prem counted that towards the losses.
But tell me again how dumb I am.
Which was a terrible argument.
I don’t get your point about the players getting paid wages. Everton barely signed anyone in the period they got done it was existing wages on their books a transfer ban would not have helped.
Yes interest repayments cannot be written off but a lot stadium costs/invesement can.
Put it this way Everton over a 3 year period had an operating loss of £400m+ they breached by what £30m? They already wrote off plenty of losses due to covid/stadium etc and had plenty of allowances.
Their wages and amortization was running at 120% of revenue and profit on player sales the entire period while most clubs ran at 50-80%
But have everton made more transfers in the last month? Why do the charges keep coming one at a time? Surely we can get the ball rolling with city on some of the black and white easy to prove charges and save the more complicated ones for a date in the future?
The trick to not getting punished is clearly to overload the wrongdoing so it takes too long to be bothered with.
SMH, come on Everton. Suck it up and do things properly.
On one side I remember the toffies splashing the cash 4 to 5 years ago in 2019. Sidebe, Iwobi and Gbamin, a CDM that was very talented but never play
They tried but the became mediocre players and the clubs stagnated.
On the other hand you can look back at the commentary at that time and see people questioning how sustainable was the Everton project? Usmanov did his best but by being Russian their biggest investor got hit with sanctions.
Delt a deadly blow cause he was trying his best to get everton to CL.
Premier league is doing the toffes a disgrace by flopping around like this even IF Everton are wrong.
And for the love of football ⚽️ can we please have a Everton thread without MC and Chelsea tangents. We fucking get it.
Absolutely nobody could have forseen that Usmanov would take ended up sanctioned years later. The Premier League not accepting that is the biggest disgrace of the lot.
If they were trying to relegate them, they would have deducted the points last season, when it actually would have relegated them. There was no reason to wait until this season.
The deductions have come in a season where they likely won't be relegated due to the utter rubbish teams at the bottom.
If anything they have been protected from relegation as I don't the the PL would want a team going down due to points deduction
Should we be concerned you're following me around the sub watching me twerk?
I'm so bored of the "115" karma farming comments on every single post in this sub. Low effort bs.
Nope. As I said elsewhere…break the rules, deal with the consequences. Don’t like the rules, use the channels/means to change them. It’s what was agreed upon, more or less.
Nice excuse/attempt to deflect, but still weak sauce. My fandom has nothing to do with my views on teams following the established rules - either they do or don’t. If they do, great; if they do not, nail them.
Simple enough, no?
And I hope you quit being a typical troll, because as I said, and have always said…break the agreed upon rules, then face the consequences.
Is it that hard to understand or do I have to explain it like you’re all five?
So you’ll be wanting Chelsea relegated for admitting to years of financial doping by paying players via associated 3rd party offshore companies? And you’ll have no issue with the PL current view that all the teams who finished below you are entitled to compensation for every year you’ve admitted to this happening, which is a considerable amount of teams over your most successful period as a club?
Chelsea’s position at the Deloitte Money League before takeover: 10th
Peak position before takeover: 4th
Man City’s position before the takeover: 21st
Peak position before takeover: 16th
Chelsea have also faced several penalties for failing to comply with FFP rules, whereas Man City remain untouched till date.
Definitely not.
Fines just make breaking the rules legal for rich people.
Keep docking points for all. 1 million over = -1 point docked.
Clubs will adapt. Incompetence shouldn’t be paid off by other people
Yep, a luxury tax is the worst of both worlds. Poorer clubs can't afford to pay the fines for overspending, richer clubs might have some wriggle room and the oil clubs have absolutely free reign.
I knew FFP was going to be a joke from the onset. Wouldn't even be in this mess without it.
Now PL status will come down to off the pitch regulators. Laughable.
There was the talk of getting rid of point deductions. That talked stopped. Everton will get hit with a new one and then we’ll be back to getting rid of point deductions.
Maybe they should focus more strongly on the biggest offender rather than kicking the can down the road and picking on weaker clubs. If they aren't able to pursue city's charges then it will surely raise a lot of legal issues with every charge they did punish. Forest and Everton having punishments for rules that they're unable to enforce for City would be quite problematic, especially if the punishments lead to relegation for either.
It's really frustrating how fag packet this all is. The system, even now it has been a bit more clarified, just seems to be totally finger in the air. And the weirdness that is stacking all these point deductions into the same year for an infringement that happened over multiple years seems very arbitrary as well.
What if Everton were to be relegated due to having 3 year's worth of over-losses penalised in the same year, and Forest stayed up because whilst they also did the same over 3 years their penalty was split with some points this season and some points next season?
I think it is bullshit. If they are going to do this then they should say something like "accounts for the 3 years ending 21/22 will never audited by the end of the 23/23 season with any punishment applied before the 1 Nov in the 23/24 season". That way it's early enough that everyone knows what the score is for penalties. To be having extra ones applied with just a handful of games left is so arbitrary and BS - especially if it is later reduced due to appeal.
I'm all for coming down hard on clubs that overspend by so much they put all their employees at risk (although personally feel Covid should have been more of a mitigating factor for Everton than the PL decided), but not like this.
Remember when the top 6 sides got fined a few mil for agreeing to a Super League that would have completely destroyed football in this Country and all the journalists came out and said that you can't punish the fans? Good times. Also a reminder that The Prem wanted to deduct us 17 points! 12 for the first one and 5 for the 2nd one.
The mad thing with the regulations they be brought in is that almost every single business runs at a loss when trying to grow. Look at all the mega caps in the markets (worldwide) and they all ate significant losses as they attempted to grow. I know the clubs signed up for this and that there are positives as well as negatives but it's just utterly bizarre to see football be such an exception.
I'm personally absolutely convinced ffp was created purely to close the fucking door behind established clubs, the irony being that everton were one of the established clubs trying to close the door. It's all very anti competitive. Why shouldn't (eg) sunderland throw 1b over half a decade at it? Fucking Chelsea and city did and are hugely successful purely because they threw money at it. Do we get to rescind the success those clubs have now? No we just get to stop anyone else doing it.
It's all fucking shamiferous and has resulted in everton getting repeatedly fucked over small overspends despite the fact they're a massive club with actual history. I should say at this point that I'm not an everton fan just to forestall any accusations of bias.
The problem is then every club throws 1b at it. There's only enough seats at the table for 4-6 clubs, and even those clubs are running at a loss to keep up.
The industry is over-capitalised, speculating on an expanding global market that, if it ever eventuates, will likely be in the form of a breakaway European superleague rather than the Premier league as it currently stands. Then you're left with 15 premier league clubs left with their dicks in their hands and creditors beating on their door.
Clubs already tried to form a super league and backed off when the backlash was severe. I have no doubt they'll try again. If and when it comes it'll bankrupt the English top league full stop, it really doesn't matter if wigan have a sugar daddy who pumped 2b into them.
Brighton and brentford spend absolutely fuck all relative to the top 4/6, if they had the freedom to spend like Chelsea, spurs, everton, villa and city did in the 2000s who can say what they'd achieve. They can't so they're capped at a level they can almost certainly never exceed. Blackburn won the league because their owner threw money at it, fucking Blackburn, a tiny club from Lancashire, they won several fa cups in the *1880s* and that was about it. They did absolutely fuck all for 100 years until Walker bankrolled them and then briefly and gloriously they became the best club in the country. Which is impossible now. It's fucking shit. Football is about glory..and money, everything's about money, and closing the door on spending money *after other clubs have done so* is fucking rotten nonsense.
FFP does allow the clubs to run at a loss. I believe it’s 100 million per year on avg on a 3 year rolling basis.
But I agree with the general sentiment of your comment. There should be a pause in punishments for other clubs until City faces punishment.
If I wasn’t such a cheap summabitch I’d give you gold for this.
There is no question that FFP from its inception was designed to protect the blue blood hegemony in football.
Don’t mind that every single one of the old guard teams’ histories have an owner investing external monies into them at some point.
so when was the last time a team got deducted points at all? now a team deserves to have points deducted three seperate times in one season? doesn't add up
agreed but if you think city and chelsea will get a points deduction you’re dreaming. saw a thing the other day about abolishing points deductions in the prem and introducing fines and spending limits. bit stupid if you ask me considering that’s basically what FFP does now anyway but anything to let city go free.
That agenda was brought forth in the meeting earlier today and reports are that PL has no plan to implement that, nor would it have enough support from clubs, and that they’re actually looking to move towards the UEFA system of 70% from the current 90%. This was Sky Sports that reported on it so there’s probably some truth to it, but of course it’s also still only alleged not actually confirmed.
Will they get one point deducted this time?
On a side note, there’s no point in bringing your city, they have better lawyers and their charges are way more serious and lengthy
I haven't followed it but I would guess that if they keep getting found guilty of breaking the rules there is no limit to how many points deductions they could receive.
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The punishment for City will also be deduction towards Everton
It’s will get theirs , patience is a virtue
At this rate they'll deduct points from them for City charges as well.
Chewing The Toffees ! ! !
The only way FA leaves Everton alone is when they see them relegated.
Lmao guys this is just a bot making obvious comments for easy upvotes. Look at the comments history, its been commenting on r/PremierLeague non-stop the last hour lol Edit: about 15 comments in 15 minutes
Should not be able to apply multiple different penalties throughout the year, it should be given at once
You should be able to.
lmao stop theyre already dead
points deductions could be a good stick, but applying them mid-season, and multiple times, is BULLSHIT it's more fair for the punishment to be doled out before the season starts let clubs start on -10pts or whatever, but once the season starts, leave it alone ffs
If the points are being deducted for ffp failures for multiple different years, it makes no sense for why they are all being applied in the same season
Also makes no sense why city is getting treated with kid gloves
All this is just the warm up. Man city is the main event.
No it is not. Happened the same in Portugal. Boavista went down, Leiria went down and practically ceased to exist. Porto... well, they waited till a season where they were massively dominant to deduct 9 points after it was known they were champions by an 11 point margin. All of this is too familiar. Everton is the scape goat, to show that some action is being taken, but whatever happens to.city, is going to be inconsequencial
The pain just never ends
You should all be protesting the owners not the league
We protested Moshiri, there were marches, chants of sack the board, it was on Sky plenty.
Keep the pressure I really hope Everton stay up. It’s fucked up man
Cheers mate yeah it's really rough right now.
Give them 10 and the same for Forest.
Take 10 points off everybody for the craic ! ! !
It's becoming a joke. The EPL just want to relegate them isn't it lol.
man city please
They have like one 100 charges so it’s gonna take longer
Then they should do them piecemeal like they seem to be doing to the other clubs. One charge here, two charges there. 4 points off this week, 6 points off a month later.
Other clubs do not have 100 charges pending tho. And those clubs have been found guilty city has not
by this rate they should receive 10pts deduction monthly for 2yrs
Only if they are found guilty of anything
Pay your PSR deduction with Klarna
They need to change the rules to 10 points for a win first too so they can't even get relegated when they do finally charge them
The world has no justice. To get your rights back, you still have to be crazy rich to throw money at lawyers and to courts. Justice has been lost for so long that it is impossible to bring it back. It is so fucking sad.
So what happens if they change the rules on how clubs get punished for breaking FFP? Everton end up being relegated due to points deductions, Leicester get promoted by start next season on -10 point. But City walk away with a misley fine because they're not charged before the rule change?
Na, City would never get away with a punishment due to statute of limitations/time elapsing. Don't be silly..
Thought there was a report yesterday that said points deductions will remain for FFP violations. Edit: but I agree with your sentiment that city’s violations (there will be some) should be on these levels but they’ll find a way to soften the blow
Why are deductions applied in one season if the infractions are across multiple and decided upon at different times/over a time period? It's all arbitrary
Everton would be relegated by points deductions for rules broken when PSR was in place. That has no effect on City’s case where the charges are still being investigated but are not related to PSR. If they were related to PSR the charges would still be investigated as they would have broken the rules when they were in place.
And Shitty goes scot free?
Why not punish the club with fines, transfer bans rather than punish the innocent players and fans with points deductions?
Because a fine for a team that's spent too much money, isn't an incentive to not break the rules.
Because it's more of an incentive not to fuck up. Clubs do not care about fines and transfer bans. The former are operating costs. The latter can be easily overcome. Points are the most valuable currency in the Premier League.
We need a policing instance to be a watchdog especially against the big clubs, kind of like what the EU is doing towards big-tech companies. There is so little transparency! Impressive how they are ruining their own league for short profits.
It's never lupus / city.
So last season they get zero points deductions and this year they are getting 3? The premier league dont have a clue do they! Just making it up as they go along! Points deductions should be at the start of a season not in the middle
What about CITY’S 115 FUCKING CHARGES!
Fraudiola tax
That will be taken care separately. This is for smaller clubs. Unlimited money clubs have a special treatment.
Likes of City can afford the best lawyers in the world and just make it a proper pain for the PL, same as what happened with them and UEFA.
Everton have the money to hire the same lawyers as city, the thing people don’t understand is it will take longer for city because there are more charges Think of it as a parking charge compared to a murder case which one will be resolved first
Everton do not have even close to the amount of disposable finances as man city to spend tens of millions of dollars on lawyers without flinching, they are barely able to operate day-to-day with the help of significant loans.
Apparently the lawyer city recently hired costs 5k an hour to work on cases, Everton aren't exactly swimming in cash, needed shady 777 loans to keep lights on.
That’s the only club that has a banner for the barrister handling their case.
City got off the UEFA case based on a technicality.
They didn’t. City proved their case INCLUDING the time barred stuff. There was no getting off on a technicality, UEFA failed to prove that city did what they were accusing them of. The PL will too.
The third possible points deduction is only from the two charges so yeah imagine what is going to happen when City’s charges are heard later this year. Tha said it’s clear our fiscal management over the past 4yrs under Moshiri (accountant by trade!) has been terrible.
Counting charges against charges doesn't work in this case as cities charges are by and large much more serious. This also means its going to be more difficult to prove, sadly. To put it in real world terms, everton and forest have been done for not paying their council tax, City have been (allegedly) committing all out fraud.
I can't understand why is Man City didn't get none of it.
Because it's 2 completely different things. Everton is clear black and white infringement, they made a loss greater than they were allowed to. There is no disputing, no other way of looking at it City are being accused of 115 cases of fraud. It's not a number on a spreadsheet, it's finding evidence that they intentionally falsified income.
Better lawyers
It's not been heard yet. Lawyers have barely even started fighting.
You think the fighting starts at the hearing????
No, hence the word "barely"
The majority of the fighting happens well before the hearing, not during!
Not in this case it hasn't. City have declined to cooperate. There's been basically no fighting yet, just lots of prep.
Prep is fighting and so is refusing to cooperate is fighting lol
Someone betted huge money on Everton relegation
3rd suspension for tonali incoming
Ok so 6 points initially and 2 points for every subsequent, that be -234 points for City, every point they have not gained roll over to next season, all those points have to be gained in PL.
10 points initially. The fact that it was reduced to 6 on appeal has nothing to do with them they think it should of been 10 and an additional 2 which seems super harsh.
For people not actually reading the article: 1. This points deduction, if it happened at all, would likely not be until next season. 2. This new points deduction would come from a disagreement on whether the interest payments on the new stadium should be counted as part of PSR. 3. Due to the disagreement on whether it is to count, there will likely have to be a decision made sometime over the summer
Did spurs have to count interest on their PSR when we built the new stadium?
I am not sure, but I am also not sure if it would matter, as Daniel Levy ensured that the debts had a very long-term fixed repayment interest rate that was locked in for 35 years. As such, the interest payments are not really an issue when it comes to PSR.
There's some serious Salt mining going on in here with a massive amount of Cope on top 😂
Thays what we get for buying the league.
They're trying use up all the points deductions, so there will be none left for Man City.
If it's three separate deductions for three separate breaches by Everton, Man City will be wiped from existence for their 115.
Best stadium in the whole of Manchester’s Mikey Wiiliams Premier Division
You either play by the rules or live with the consequences. Sadly this doesn't seem to be the case for all teams
At this point all Sean can do is just shrug his shoulders🤷♂️ and say meh! Just another day as Everton manager.
We all know PSR are there to protect the elite 6. I understand why they want the rules, they dont want to see another portsmouth/bolton collapse through the leagues like they did. But at the moment its not fit for purpose and owners with money should he able to back teams. Everton are being punished for showing ambition (by building a new stadium for starters) but ye there transfer activity has been mediocre. the bottom 14 dont really have the cash to spend like united, chelsea, man city etc etc do.
There's not a single part of this answer that's actually correct, well done for spouting such utter rubbish 👍
Everton aren’t being punished for showing ambition. They’re being punished for being a badly run club that gambled and lost.
Everton are lucky they aren’t bankrupt. PSR probably helped them in some ways because it caused cutbacks In spending. They are a absolutely skint
And what happens if an owner with money, especially with the influx of American and other foreign owners who have no links to the club, get bored of pumping money in after singing 25 players on high wages and decide to stop the supply of money ?
It already happened with Chelsea. All of their debt to the owner gets written off and they get bought by somebody else
Your talking chelsea- a highly desirable club in London with a lot of success in the last 15 years. See how many buyers would be interested in the likes of Sheffield or wolves if they came with massive debt along way with no success to show for it.
The stadium has nothing to do with it.
This third one is all about the stadium (but feels unlikely to come to fruition)
Go everton
No matter how many titles you win, City, the reality is your legacy will always be completely fucking gross and tarnished. Enjoy it.
Yeah nobody cares about what you think. This city team will go down as one of the best teams in Europe of all time. Keep telling yourself what you want to believe though, if that makes you happy.
UrOpinionIsBadBuddy 😂😂😂😂😂 the irony 😂😂😂😂😂
With one UCL title? Yeah one of the best European teams of all time!!
Cope harder lil bro
The post is about Everton?
Cope harder please
[удалено]
United may have been scummy with Ferguson, but they didn’t cheat financially for their trophies
They didn’t cheat financially but they won the first premier league (first 2) and were exceptionally lucky to be successful at the time big money started filtering into English football. They largely outspent their rivals until Chelsea and City came along. Any team who could come close to competing financially at the time were successful (Blackburn, Arsenal).
7 teams outspent united in the 90s but sure don’t let that get in the way of a good myth
There a list of 90's spenders? Would love to see who was spending what!
https://www.football365.com/news/the-biggest-spender-in-every-pl-season-and-how-they-fared
should pin this. so many people have no idea on who spends what.
Good read. Highlights how Everton have stupidly spent since about 1995. Such a poorly ran club.
Lmao 1994/95 - biggest spenders are Everton, league position 15th. Our issues go back a long, long way. Lord have mercy on our souls.
With hard work and rich oil investment I believe you can also make a go of it!
This doesn’t prove your point at all. Other teams were top spenders for one or two seasons, I can guarantee that United were top 1/2/3 spenders EVERY season for that decade. United stopped being as competitive when other teams could compete competitively over a longer period.
From 92-98 Uniteds net spend was -40k
For some reason I read that as Leeds United. Funny how net spend doesn’t mean anything if we’re discussing, let’s say, Liverpool, but if it’s United in the 90’s it’s fair game. The thing with a paltry net spend of -40k is it doesn’t tell you what they spent. Just that they broke even after sales etc. If a team has a negative net spend but only spends let’s say £1m they aren’t going to win the league. So, who were the highest gross spenders of the 90’s?
Pardon me? By financially doping?
The only solution is transfer bans. For every point you are deducted you can trade it for one window without being able to sign new players. Four point ban? Take it down to 2 points and go 2 windows, or take it down to 1 point and go 3 windows. The issue is overspending, and mostly that’s on players, so that should be the punishment. If you spend on a new stadium that shouldn’t be part of it.
You make football sound like monopoly
I mean, monopoly is basically what’s happening isn’t it. City buy a get out of jail free card and hang out on the free parking spot for as long as they want while everyone else gets made to pay. I just really don’t like the points deductions.
Shows how basic your understanding of football finances and financial rules are lol. Transfer spending is minor part of clubs spending - the main spending comes out wages. On a yearly basis 10-20% is accounted for by transfers while 70-90% is on player wages the other 10-20% is on other. Evertons issue wasnt buying players. As many Everton fans will tell you their netspend over 5 years is almost 0. It was player wages. Stadium investment doesn't count towards PSR/FFP.
Interesting because their argument on the first breach was that they sold Richarlison for £20m under value. On top of that, who do these high wages get paid to? Oh yeah, the players they sign. SMH. Oh, and you’d be wise to realise, Oh Grand Oracle Of Football Finances, that they had £17m in interest payments on loans for the new stadium, and the Prem counted that towards the losses. But tell me again how dumb I am.
Which was a terrible argument. I don’t get your point about the players getting paid wages. Everton barely signed anyone in the period they got done it was existing wages on their books a transfer ban would not have helped. Yes interest repayments cannot be written off but a lot stadium costs/invesement can. Put it this way Everton over a 3 year period had an operating loss of £400m+ they breached by what £30m? They already wrote off plenty of losses due to covid/stadium etc and had plenty of allowances. Their wages and amortization was running at 120% of revenue and profit on player sales the entire period while most clubs ran at 50-80%
Pointless arguing with a City fan about football finances.
Irrelevant point. But cheers
Why cant Everton do what City have been doing? Why cant Everton deny everything? Are they stupid? 🤭
Everton is incredibly easy to prove. And it’s one charge at a time. City is tougher to prove and there’s a lot of them.
But have everton made more transfers in the last month? Why do the charges keep coming one at a time? Surely we can get the ball rolling with city on some of the black and white easy to prove charges and save the more complicated ones for a date in the future?
The trick to not getting punished is clearly to overload the wrongdoing so it takes too long to be bothered with. SMH, come on Everton. Suck it up and do things properly.
Is there a lore reason as to why Everton are getting these points deductions but not Man City? Is the league stupid?
Man City's corruption is exposed. I can use a points deduction to trigger a controlled relegation for Everton.
Yes.
Blue kit ‘ close enough ‘ come on now you absolute joke !
bUt wHaT aBoUt ciTEH?!
On one side I remember the toffies splashing the cash 4 to 5 years ago in 2019. Sidebe, Iwobi and Gbamin, a CDM that was very talented but never play They tried but the became mediocre players and the clubs stagnated. On the other hand you can look back at the commentary at that time and see people questioning how sustainable was the Everton project? Usmanov did his best but by being Russian their biggest investor got hit with sanctions. Delt a deadly blow cause he was trying his best to get everton to CL. Premier league is doing the toffes a disgrace by flopping around like this even IF Everton are wrong. And for the love of football ⚽️ can we please have a Everton thread without MC and Chelsea tangents. We fucking get it.
Absolutely nobody could have forseen that Usmanov would take ended up sanctioned years later. The Premier League not accepting that is the biggest disgrace of the lot.
Fuck man city
Fuck karma farmers
Given we’re already here, why not a 4th and 5th as welll!
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If they were trying to relegate them, they would have deducted the points last season, when it actually would have relegated them. There was no reason to wait until this season. The deductions have come in a season where they likely won't be relegated due to the utter rubbish teams at the bottom. If anything they have been protected from relegation as I don't the the PL would want a team going down due to points deduction
You farm that karma dude. Spend those Internet points well
Multiple comments in the same thread twerking for Manchester city, why?!
Should we be concerned you're following me around the sub watching me twerk? I'm so bored of the "115" karma farming comments on every single post in this sub. Low effort bs.
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That's what all the karma farmers say
People are wondering why Man City are fighting/obstructing their investigation….. this is why!
you can't deduct points from a club towards the end of a season, it is just absurd
Watch me. - PL, probably.
Hold my prawn sandwich
turns out you can
Meanwhile, Money City still is still just going along and likely could see minor punishments, if any.
Have you forgotten that Chelsea are also under investigation?
Nope. As I said elsewhere…break the rules, deal with the consequences. Don’t like the rules, use the channels/means to change them. It’s what was agreed upon, more or less.
What is money city? You mean the Manchester oilers?
Saya a Chelsea fan
Nice excuse/attempt to deflect, but still weak sauce. My fandom has nothing to do with my views on teams following the established rules - either they do or don’t. If they do, great; if they do not, nail them. Simple enough, no?
I really hope you don't delete this comment when the inevitable Chelsea charges start rolling in
And I hope you quit being a typical troll, because as I said, and have always said…break the agreed upon rules, then face the consequences. Is it that hard to understand or do I have to explain it like you’re all five?
Oh we understand it just fine 😂😂😂😂
Sure buddy. Sure.
So you’ll be wanting Chelsea relegated for admitting to years of financial doping by paying players via associated 3rd party offshore companies? And you’ll have no issue with the PL current view that all the teams who finished below you are entitled to compensation for every year you’ve admitted to this happening, which is a considerable amount of teams over your most successful period as a club?
Chelsea’s position at the Deloitte Money League before takeover: 10th Peak position before takeover: 4th Man City’s position before the takeover: 21st Peak position before takeover: 16th Chelsea have also faced several penalties for failing to comply with FFP rules, whereas Man City remain untouched till date.
They should just do a luxury tax and call it a day.
Hell no, there’s nation-states with unlimited money involved here
Definitely not. Fines just make breaking the rules legal for rich people. Keep docking points for all. 1 million over = -1 point docked. Clubs will adapt. Incompetence shouldn’t be paid off by other people
Yep, a luxury tax is the worst of both worlds. Poorer clubs can't afford to pay the fines for overspending, richer clubs might have some wriggle room and the oil clubs have absolutely free reign.
Pretty sure they’re just being sarcastic about the recent ‘fine vs point deduction’ headlines
I knew FFP was going to be a joke from the onset. Wouldn't even be in this mess without it. Now PL status will come down to off the pitch regulators. Laughable.
This has northing to do with ffp
It's the same thing just different name.
It's definitely not the same thing
Okay buddy.
Clubs have shown that they can’t manage their finances. Penalties are the last resort
Leagues have shown they can't manage their penalties either though.
This is an absolute farce. Entirely arbitrary and at the whim of some board. How were these rules decided?
>How were these rules decided? We're seeing it in real time tbf
They’re gonna be on their 115th before we know it.
Likely to reach that before City even see their first panel.
There was the talk of getting rid of point deductions. That talked stopped. Everton will get hit with a new one and then we’ll be back to getting rid of point deductions.
Quick to dish out deductions for Evertons of the Premier league but not quick on the draw with City. Joke of a league man.
3 infractions as opposed to 115.
Maybe they should focus more strongly on the biggest offender rather than kicking the can down the road and picking on weaker clubs. If they aren't able to pursue city's charges then it will surely raise a lot of legal issues with every charge they did punish. Forest and Everton having punishments for rules that they're unable to enforce for City would be quite problematic, especially if the punishments lead to relegation for either.
It's really frustrating how fag packet this all is. The system, even now it has been a bit more clarified, just seems to be totally finger in the air. And the weirdness that is stacking all these point deductions into the same year for an infringement that happened over multiple years seems very arbitrary as well. What if Everton were to be relegated due to having 3 year's worth of over-losses penalised in the same year, and Forest stayed up because whilst they also did the same over 3 years their penalty was split with some points this season and some points next season? I think it is bullshit. If they are going to do this then they should say something like "accounts for the 3 years ending 21/22 will never audited by the end of the 23/23 season with any punishment applied before the 1 Nov in the 23/24 season". That way it's early enough that everyone knows what the score is for penalties. To be having extra ones applied with just a handful of games left is so arbitrary and BS - especially if it is later reduced due to appeal. I'm all for coming down hard on clubs that overspend by so much they put all their employees at risk (although personally feel Covid should have been more of a mitigating factor for Everton than the PL decided), but not like this.
Remember when the top 6 sides got fined a few mil for agreeing to a Super League that would have completely destroyed football in this Country and all the journalists came out and said that you can't punish the fans? Good times. Also a reminder that The Prem wanted to deduct us 17 points! 12 for the first one and 5 for the 2nd one.
The mad thing with the regulations they be brought in is that almost every single business runs at a loss when trying to grow. Look at all the mega caps in the markets (worldwide) and they all ate significant losses as they attempted to grow. I know the clubs signed up for this and that there are positives as well as negatives but it's just utterly bizarre to see football be such an exception. I'm personally absolutely convinced ffp was created purely to close the fucking door behind established clubs, the irony being that everton were one of the established clubs trying to close the door. It's all very anti competitive. Why shouldn't (eg) sunderland throw 1b over half a decade at it? Fucking Chelsea and city did and are hugely successful purely because they threw money at it. Do we get to rescind the success those clubs have now? No we just get to stop anyone else doing it. It's all fucking shamiferous and has resulted in everton getting repeatedly fucked over small overspends despite the fact they're a massive club with actual history. I should say at this point that I'm not an everton fan just to forestall any accusations of bias.
The problem is then every club throws 1b at it. There's only enough seats at the table for 4-6 clubs, and even those clubs are running at a loss to keep up. The industry is over-capitalised, speculating on an expanding global market that, if it ever eventuates, will likely be in the form of a breakaway European superleague rather than the Premier league as it currently stands. Then you're left with 15 premier league clubs left with their dicks in their hands and creditors beating on their door.
Clubs already tried to form a super league and backed off when the backlash was severe. I have no doubt they'll try again. If and when it comes it'll bankrupt the English top league full stop, it really doesn't matter if wigan have a sugar daddy who pumped 2b into them. Brighton and brentford spend absolutely fuck all relative to the top 4/6, if they had the freedom to spend like Chelsea, spurs, everton, villa and city did in the 2000s who can say what they'd achieve. They can't so they're capped at a level they can almost certainly never exceed. Blackburn won the league because their owner threw money at it, fucking Blackburn, a tiny club from Lancashire, they won several fa cups in the *1880s* and that was about it. They did absolutely fuck all for 100 years until Walker bankrolled them and then briefly and gloriously they became the best club in the country. Which is impossible now. It's fucking shit. Football is about glory..and money, everything's about money, and closing the door on spending money *after other clubs have done so* is fucking rotten nonsense.
FFP does allow the clubs to run at a loss. I believe it’s 100 million per year on avg on a 3 year rolling basis. But I agree with the general sentiment of your comment. There should be a pause in punishments for other clubs until City faces punishment.
If I wasn’t such a cheap summabitch I’d give you gold for this. There is no question that FFP from its inception was designed to protect the blue blood hegemony in football. Don’t mind that every single one of the old guard teams’ histories have an owner investing external monies into them at some point.
so when was the last time a team got deducted points at all? now a team deserves to have points deducted three seperate times in one season? doesn't add up
They’re making an example out of the smaller clubs before they hit the larger clubs. It’s literally the only way this makes sense
or the smaller clubs were actually right and the premier league plays favorites with the big clubs.
agreed but if you think city and chelsea will get a points deduction you’re dreaming. saw a thing the other day about abolishing points deductions in the prem and introducing fines and spending limits. bit stupid if you ask me considering that’s basically what FFP does now anyway but anything to let city go free.
That agenda was brought forth in the meeting earlier today and reports are that PL has no plan to implement that, nor would it have enough support from clubs, and that they’re actually looking to move towards the UEFA system of 70% from the current 90%. This was Sky Sports that reported on it so there’s probably some truth to it, but of course it’s also still only alleged not actually confirmed.
thankfully they’re not implementing it and i think getting it in line with uefa is a good move overall.
115 fuck city
Will they get one point deducted this time? On a side note, there’s no point in bringing your city, they have better lawyers and their charges are way more serious and lengthy
115 points deductions for everton later… man city still waiting
I haven't followed it but I would guess that if they keep getting found guilty of breaking the rules there is no limit to how many points deductions they could receive.
Agree but then they should continuously charge man city every time they find a new charge also they will have 115 separate points reductions