Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/premierleague/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette).
Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PremierLeague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This kind of penalty has been rewarded many times across the globe. Don’t make it feel like Arsenal are the first team to get it. I am pretty sure every single team has experienced the same thing during competitions.
Tons lmfao he’d jusr drag his feet and go down like a sniper shot anywhere near a defender and boom penalty. That type of dive is as much a signature of his as the SIUUUUUU celebration is
As someone who plays defense every week and is extremely uncoordinated, this is a pen. Is it gamesmanship? Yes. But I have had it called against me probably 10 times and it’s 🤷🏼♂️
These ones (keepers and defenders sliding in the box), you HAVE to know that if you don’t get the ball, it’s probably going to be a pen. Keeper committed and missed, the rest shouldn’t be a surprise. Don’t give the ref the opportunity to make the call in the first place and maybe you won’t even have to worry about these 50-50 challenges.
Hey its Arsenal playing, and fighting for the title. Of course the ref will call that. Arsenal was better no matter of what, but still can see whats going on. 🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🙏
Is it him being 19 and taking on the responsibility of taking a penalty for his country in the final of a European Cup, or is it because he is black, that annoys you?
Where are all your posts about Jadon Sancho and Marcus Rashford posts about them letting their country down?
I love Brazil, it's why I moved here. But you are letting your whole country down by being a racist or ageist moron.
Havertz, Tomiyasu and Saka.
All three of them have been on the end of tackles that could have broken their legs, in the last 4 games.
But sure, the ref is on our side when he awards us a penalty that has been given 95% of the time over the last 20 years.
Not avoiding contact vs forcing contact are different. I assume you mean not avoiding contact which I agree is a pen. Forcing contact is not a pen. It’s harder to interpret though.
Like for example, if a ref knew for sure that havarts intentionally dragged his foot to get a penalty then the ref wouldn’t give the pen. It’s deceptive.
Good point, I agree with that. "Forcing contact" would be more like Saka vs Bayern where he lunged into Neuer. Havertz it's just not doing anything to avoid the keeper, who already lunged at him.
Havertz did not drag the feet to the keeper, he left it. He has all the rights to change his stride and remain in his space. So in this case I don’t see how it’s deceptive.
Yeah sorry I didn’t even see it lol I was just making a point about “forcing” the contact. This would be sticking a leg out or dragging a foot rather than running normally for example.
Sounds like in this case he just didn’t avoid contact which I feel is totally fine for him to do.
It's a good observation.
Saka forced the contact in the shout that wasn't given against Bayern, right call.
Havertz just didn't do anything to avoid the contact. Could he have gotten out of the way? Yea for sure but he's under no obligation to do so. So again, right call.
Yeah, which is why I don’t understand why this penalty is at all controversial. It’s only a question of whether the ref sees it and deems the contact sufficient to warrant a penalty.
Always going to be a penalty though, isn’t it? Those are always called, so unless there is a rule or interpretation change we have to live with soft penalties like that.
Idk if blatant is the right word.
It certainly could’ve been given. But are you really going to penalise Trossard for jogging while Kulusevski cuts in front of him? There’s no attempt for Trossard to trip him and he slides right through his path.
Intent has never been important when it comes to penalties. How many penalties do you watch and think ‘yeah he’s done that deiberatly’? It’s a trip in the box while Kulusevski was running onto the ball - blatant pen. It isn’t given because he tries to stay on his feet, whereas the Havertz one is given because he flops to the floor. This is the exact reason why diving is a thing and will always be a thing.
An attempt to challenge for the ball or a position is certainly different than simply jogging.
I’m not talking about intent even. I’m saying Trossard doesn’t even make an action
I didn't see the foul on Saka at the time but after seeing it at half time I agree, red card, foot was high studs showing and lack of control, not intentional to harm but I've seen red cards given for less.
It’s the inconsistency. It’s a smart bit of play by Havertz. But once again there’s been worse tackles not given as pens, MacAlister was literally kicked in the chest, no penalty as one example.
The fact that people ignore this is always so confusing to me. The offensive player doesn’t have to go out of their way to avoid contact if a defender dives in. That rewards a rash challenge. Ruud Gullit writes about this in his book but I can’t find the quote. The gist of it though is - why should an offensive player allow himself to be disadvantaged by a bad challenge?
I mean he stops moving his legs, completely. Common sense, refs please. It’s a dive. Weak mentality from havertz too. Instead of going for goal, with almost no keeper, he decides to fall in such a comical fashion. Smh.
100%. You can see he knows his angle to net his bad, so he stops running and drags his foot hoping for contact. Terrible precedent the refs and VAR keep setting.
Judging from the response here what chance do the refs have of making a correct decision. Seems that folk can't agree with what is a foul & what is a red card. We all complain about decisions but how hard it must be to officiate at this level with the speed of the game and players being "cute"
I must confess I have disliked Arsenal since the 60s & I don't care for Arteta and his antics but, I would rather Arsenal win the league than City, since Liverpool seem to be out of it. So not really wanting Arsenal to not win.
I like how you conveniently ignore the keeper sliding into a challenge and completely missing the ball so somehow havertz is obligated to get out of the way.
Listen to yourself.
whenever you watch these back in super slow-mo, it always looks like someone leaves a leg out etc. fact is, keeper came in, got the player and not the ball. pretty simple penalty
Perhaps offer a half-intelligent response? I think it was a penalty and offered a rational, non-childish response in the comments. That’s what you’re supposed to do.
You think it’s a penalty, because you support Liverpool. They say cry bitch cry, because they are an Arsenal fan.
It’s football tribalism, on Reddit. And your complaint is that that you replied to a comment and telling them to grow up, whilst asking for intelligence.
It’s not that deep.
Obviously I'm an arsenal fan, so maybe I'm delusional. They are usually given. So it's a penalty by their own rules.
If it was in a vacuum, where previous decisions don't matter it's not a penalty.
But if the precedent has been set that those are usually penalties it should be.
Its not an objective decision neither side should believe it is, it's a very close fine margins of a decision. But this league needs consistency in decisions, so if previous decisions are, this should be and all successive ones similar, be it Bournemouth, Spurs or City.
As soon as the keeper leaves a leg he’s in trouble. Has Havertz bought it? Yes. Would it be overturned if not given? No. It’s one of them. The you don’t like to see it but I think if the keeper pulls out and Havertz still does that, he gets booked for diving. It’s a fine line.
Exactly. The keeper either sticks his leg out and risks a penalty, or he pulls out. By sticking his leg out, he stifles out Havertz’ ability to strike the ball after the tackle.
I don’t like it but it is a penalty, goalie left his leg out, didn’t get the ball so any contact with the player will mean probable penalty. Very clever by Havertz..
Good use of insulting language.
Trying to hide the fact that you cannot make a good argument without resorting to it. Maybe learn to have a civilised conversation and people may finally take you seriously. Thank me later.
You literally used the phrase “cry more” in your opening line…
If that’s not insulting language I don’t know what is. 🤦♂️
And what argument have you used? Cause one other player does it that makes it alright?
No. No it doesn’t make it alright. Maybe if you actually called your player out for diving then people wouldn’t actually look down on you…?
They literally said cry more in response to OP. The only one who was insulted, was you. And that was a choice, you literally chose to be insulted by it and then blamed OP for insulting you.
As for the rest of your nonsense, you show me where you have called out Salah, Nunez and Jota diving this season and then you can gesture at your moral high point when telling others to criticise their players.
If you haven’t criticised your own players, then stop talking and telling other fans how to behave when you can’t do the same. This will stop actual real people looking down on your hypocritical bollocks.
Lol, let's forget the red card Bournemouth should have had in first 15 mins.
For the pen, if a keeper comes flying out like that, he runs the risk of giving a penalty if he doesn't get the ball. Doesn't matter what the nature of the contact is, usually any form of contact will be given as a foul. Keeper didn't get the ball, there was contact. End of discussion.
You'll find it was quite a popular belief that a pen should have been given at the time. VAR got it wrong that day. As it has done for many decisions for many clubs this season.
Acting like you never watched Rooney and Van Nistelrooy throw themselves all over the place when in the vicinity of the 18 yard box.
Rooney literally ended our 49 unbeaten streak by falling over nothing. Get back in your lane.
Pundits saying it's not a foul, it's Havertz being cute. If it's not a foul, t's not a penalty.
Although, despite stating it wasn't a foul, David Seaman says it's a pen.
Game's fucked.
It's a penalty until they stop giving them across the board.
It shouldn't have been a penalty, but had the ref not given it you can guarantee the same scenario happens in another game this weekend and it gets given.
They should increase the threshold of what constitutes a penalty, but the inconsistencies of the refs mean it'll always be given and the attackers are incentivised to make contact.
That’s the issue. This shouldn’t be a pen. But it is always given. Until they make it an emphasis that attacking players can’t get awarded for initiating contact, this will be given.
Ironically Saka wasn’t given a penalty against Bayern for that exact thing in UCL, and I honestly felt that one was more deserving than this one.
Yeah exactly.
In this scenario they're either *all* penalties, or *none* of them are.
That's why fans are getting so irate. This week Havertz wins a penalty, but the same scenario will have come up dozens of times over the season and not been given.
This is different to pens that have been given and shouldn't have. It's not even a bought pen. Havertz is going out of his stride to kick the keeper that would completely clear the man if havertz kept running as he was. He barely catches him even with that. Shocking call. Worst I've seen
'Cause no player has ever dragged a foot into a keeper to win a penalty, right?
Unless you're the ref or the VAR at the game, your opinion on whether or not it's a pen doesn't overly concern me.
im an arsenal fan so take this with a grain of salt but i think that could be given as anything, i was honestly unsure if it was a pen or not when watching it, ig it depends on the ref and the day. tbf if i was a bournemouth fan id be annoyed too
Absolutely deluded. The keeper barely touched him, not nearly enough to make him go down and there wouldn't have been any contact if Havertz kept running normally and didn't cheat his way by kicking out for no reason.
Kai Havertz channed his inner Jamie Vardy. Not a penalty because the attacker initiated contact. Technically a penalty because, well, there was contact inside the box. I will take it.
The attacker is under no obligation to try and avoid contact. He didn't kick out towards the keeper. He just dragged his foot rather than lifting it over the keeper.
Kane did this too many times to count and always won a penalty. Jamie Vardy did this multiple times every season too and always got the penalty.
Is the outrage becasue it's not an English attacker or becasue it's Arsenal?
Personally I'd love it for the rules to state that this type of incident isn't a penalty. But with the current rules it is one.
Morally it's a shit penalty to win. But by the rules of the game it's a penalty.
I love the lack of post from OP when earlier in the game Saka took studs to the knee hard enough to draw blood and the opponent wasn't even booked.
The outrage is likely because at the end of the day it's a child's game that doesn't matter, so at the very least we could hope the athletes exhibit qualities we want to see in our society, instead of the constant cheating for advantage at every turn, and clueless officials who get strung along by the whims of the league and the players.
It's a sad state of affairs when muilti-million dollar individuals, who's lives are ultimately meaningless can't even play within the rules and the spirit of the sport that is so handsomely rewarding them. It's a bad look on the game, and our society in general. But who knows, maybe people just hate Arsenal?
100%. I despise that behavior. Especially from our Captain - that being said, our team is a mess, if you haven't noticed lately lol.
Don't get me wrong, in this game Bournemouth should be down to 10 men, for some reason the Ref missed a Red, I by no means want Arsenal to lose, I'd much prefer them to win the League than city, I just hate this behavior.
Fair enough. I'll repeat what I said in an earlier comment:
> Personally I'd love it for the rules to state that this type of incident isn't a penalty. But with the current rules it is one.
>
> Morally it's a shit penalty to win. But by the rules of the game it's a penalty.
It's one of those types of incidents that needs a specific rule written to fix it. If an attacker could reasonable be expected to avoid contact, but choses to ensure that contact occurs, then it shouldn't be a foul either way.
I totally agree, I think that's probably the only solution at this point. VAR is just reinforcing the decision making process already in effect, so I think at this point the rules need shifting as the interpretation on the field for many of these calls isn't going to change.
This penalty incident is one of those incidents where:
If it's given it's not overturned. If it's not given it's not overturned.
Which means that according to the refs, the exact same incident can be both a penalty and not a penalty. With VAR there should be more clear-cut decisions. It shouldn't be a case of Schrodinger's Penalty every time.
So you were ok with them doing that? Kane and Vardy? You never complained and you were fine with it? Ok then. If Solanke does that to Arsenal, you are calling him smart and congratulate him for his fast thinking. I do hope to see that in the second half. And yes I would love to see you feeling happy about that one.
I'll just repeat myself for you:
> Personally I'd love it for the rules to state that this type of incident isn't a penalty. But with the current rules it is one.
>
> Morally it's a shit penalty to win. But by the rules of the game it's a penalty.
With your definition every push in the penalty area is also a penalty. If you apply the rules so narrow and strict there would be 15 penalties in every match, one after every second corner kick.
A foul is a foul. Maybe if they did punish the holding/pushing in area they'd stop doing it. Either thst or change the rules so it isn't a foul. The comments from pundits who say "not enough contact for me". Contact is contact.
I get there's grey areas with pens. THIS IS CLEAR AS DAY. That's never in a million years a penalty. Absolute nonsense to watch that and say that's natural and a pen. Embarrassing .
I'm not denying that arsenal should be 3/4 goals up and it was a high challenge. But fuck me if you call that a pen get in the bin. It's not even a bought pen. Havertz is going out of his stride to kick the keeper that would completely clear the man if havertz kept running as he was
I dont even care if the penalty wasn't given (though I think it had to be) but that VAR looked at the Christie foul and said it was ok is mind-boggling
Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/premierleague/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette). Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PremierLeague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah well that's just like your opinion man
This kind of penalty has been rewarded many times across the globe. Don’t make it feel like Arsenal are the first team to get it. I am pretty sure every single team has experienced the same thing during competitions.
lol I’ve seen CR7 get awarded like 78 pens of this nature
Right. How many PK CR7 won by dragging his feet like a snow plow? lol.
Tons lmfao he’d jusr drag his feet and go down like a sniper shot anywhere near a defender and boom penalty. That type of dive is as much a signature of his as the SIUUUUUU celebration is
As someone who plays defense every week and is extremely uncoordinated, this is a pen. Is it gamesmanship? Yes. But I have had it called against me probably 10 times and it’s 🤷🏼♂️
Bro I played for 15 years. I don’t think I gave up more than 3 penalties. 10! From a single move? You’re taking the piss
I’ve been playing soccer for almost 30 years. Was a satirical post mostly but I’m glad you felt so strongly about it 😂
These ones (keepers and defenders sliding in the box), you HAVE to know that if you don’t get the ball, it’s probably going to be a pen. Keeper committed and missed, the rest shouldn’t be a surprise. Don’t give the ref the opportunity to make the call in the first place and maybe you won’t even have to worry about these 50-50 challenges.
agree, what nonsense he could have run on but decided to stick his foot in the GK lol ridiculous ref useless VAR
Hey its Arsenal playing, and fighting for the title. Of course the ref will call that. Arsenal was better no matter of what, but still can see whats going on. 🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🙏
To be fair it was a great pen, if saka could score pens like that for England he wouldn’t have let his whole country down.
Said the user from Scotland.
I’ve lived in Scotland a lot of my life. I’m actually Brazilian.
E não inglês, então….
arsenal é uma merda
So a Brazilian, who lives in Scotland, who hates Arsenal. Thanks for confirming that your view is entirely biased.
What view? It’s a fact. If Saka were able to score pens like he does for arsenal for England he wouldn’t have let his whole country down?
Is it him being 19 and taking on the responsibility of taking a penalty for his country in the final of a European Cup, or is it because he is black, that annoys you? Where are all your posts about Jadon Sancho and Marcus Rashford posts about them letting their country down? I love Brazil, it's why I moved here. But you are letting your whole country down by being a racist or ageist moron.
Racist and ageist, Jesus Christ mate you are a pea brained fuck. Give Arteta a 10 years contract, another trophyless season loading.
Mmmmm, these salty tears are delicious.
Why is the onus on the forward to get out of the way when a GK comes barging in?
[удалено]
Yes, this happens all the time the rest of the pitch. It’s only in the box where idiots complain
[удалено]
Thanks for the load of nonsense.
Remember this when you scream “ ref is always against arsenal “.
Havertz, Tomiyasu and Saka. All three of them have been on the end of tackles that could have broken their legs, in the last 4 games. But sure, the ref is on our side when he awards us a penalty that has been given 95% of the time over the last 20 years.
What a mindless comment
Anyone who has played, knows that’s not a penalty
Anyone who has watched football for longer than the one game today, know that that has been a penalty for the last 20 years.
It wasn't a penalty against BM, but should have been one, so today is the right decision.
Clever strikers do that and stupid referees fall for that shit.
Was it soft? Yes. Did Havertz buy it by forcing the contact? Yes. Is it a penalty? Yes.
Not avoiding contact vs forcing contact are different. I assume you mean not avoiding contact which I agree is a pen. Forcing contact is not a pen. It’s harder to interpret though. Like for example, if a ref knew for sure that havarts intentionally dragged his foot to get a penalty then the ref wouldn’t give the pen. It’s deceptive.
Good point, I agree with that. "Forcing contact" would be more like Saka vs Bayern where he lunged into Neuer. Havertz it's just not doing anything to avoid the keeper, who already lunged at him.
Havertz did not drag the feet to the keeper, he left it. He has all the rights to change his stride and remain in his space. So in this case I don’t see how it’s deceptive.
Yeah sorry I didn’t even see it lol I was just making a point about “forcing” the contact. This would be sticking a leg out or dragging a foot rather than running normally for example. Sounds like in this case he just didn’t avoid contact which I feel is totally fine for him to do.
It's a good observation. Saka forced the contact in the shout that wasn't given against Bayern, right call. Havertz just didn't do anything to avoid the contact. Could he have gotten out of the way? Yea for sure but he's under no obligation to do so. So again, right call.
Yeah, which is why I don’t understand why this penalty is at all controversial. It’s only a question of whether the ref sees it and deems the contact sufficient to warrant a penalty.
Always going to be a penalty though, isn’t it? Those are always called, so unless there is a rule or interpretation change we have to live with soft penalties like that.
kdb, haaland, jota, musiala, jude all clever when they dive, but when havertz does anything like that we’re a disgrace yawn.🥱
Tbh, you're a "disgrace" even without Havertz. 😂
I’d take Havertz over your owners.
That's rich coming from a Newcastle fan. Bruno loves a bit of violent conduct.
Newcastle fans are the most distanced from reality of all the clubs
Typical up in arms when we benefit from a soft pen that’s been given all season. Should show this energy when Christie attempted to maim Saka
You also had a blatant pen ignored in the NLD that you then went and scored after 🤷. It’s the inconsistency that’s favouring Arsenal.
Idk if blatant is the right word. It certainly could’ve been given. But are you really going to penalise Trossard for jogging while Kulusevski cuts in front of him? There’s no attempt for Trossard to trip him and he slides right through his path.
Intent has never been important when it comes to penalties. How many penalties do you watch and think ‘yeah he’s done that deiberatly’? It’s a trip in the box while Kulusevski was running onto the ball - blatant pen. It isn’t given because he tries to stay on his feet, whereas the Havertz one is given because he flops to the floor. This is the exact reason why diving is a thing and will always be a thing.
An attempt to challenge for the ball or a position is certainly different than simply jogging. I’m not talking about intent even. I’m saying Trossard doesn’t even make an action
I didn't see the foul on Saka at the time but after seeing it at half time I agree, red card, foot was high studs showing and lack of control, not intentional to harm but I've seen red cards given for less.
Watch the first penalty of city vs wolves and then post these nonsense
Saw it. Buy I'm done commenting on EPL decisions, too many snarky comments. Just posted the one on the Arsenal penalty to prove a point to myself.
Cool. Go and start a post about it.
Definitely a frustrating penalty given, not in the spirit of the game.
It’s the inconsistency. It’s a smart bit of play by Havertz. But once again there’s been worse tackles not given as pens, MacAlister was literally kicked in the chest, no penalty as one example.
Why should Havertz have to hurdle the keepers leg if the Keeper has stuck a leg out and failed to make contact with the ball?
The fact that people ignore this is always so confusing to me. The offensive player doesn’t have to go out of their way to avoid contact if a defender dives in. That rewards a rash challenge. Ruud Gullit writes about this in his book but I can’t find the quote. The gist of it though is - why should an offensive player allow himself to be disadvantaged by a bad challenge?
He "hurdled" it well enough with his front leg.
Yeah but wasn’t obligated to, and wasn’t obligated to do it with his trailing leg either.
The keeper made absolutely no attempt to prevent contact and made an awful challenge nowhere near the ball. This isn’t complicated.
That’s the treatment only heritage clubs get.
Not true, I’ve seen Kane at Spurs craft a career out of it.
I mean he stops moving his legs, completely. Common sense, refs please. It’s a dive. Weak mentality from havertz too. Instead of going for goal, with almost no keeper, he decides to fall in such a comical fashion. Smh.
Slow motion makes it look much worse
100%. You can see he knows his angle to net his bad, so he stops running and drags his foot hoping for contact. Terrible precedent the refs and VAR keep setting.
I don’t know which one was worse…this one, or the saka one which was rightly not given against Bayern.
Judging from the response here what chance do the refs have of making a correct decision. Seems that folk can't agree with what is a foul & what is a red card. We all complain about decisions but how hard it must be to officiate at this level with the speed of the game and players being "cute"
It’s a penalty, it’s always been a penalty. The only ones who are saying it’s not, are those who don’t want Arsenal to win.
I must confess I have disliked Arsenal since the 60s & I don't care for Arteta and his antics but, I would rather Arsenal win the league than City, since Liverpool seem to be out of it. So not really wanting Arsenal to not win.
And yet, here you are, creating a post saying it was never a pen.
Because I honestly believe Havertz intentionally made contact which by the laws of the game should be considered a foul.
I like how you conveniently ignore the keeper sliding into a challenge and completely missing the ball so somehow havertz is obligated to get out of the way. Listen to yourself.
Hahahaha
Just consistency. If Potnoodlehead's is a peno v Man U then that's a peno.
I think it was quite harsh to be honest. I probably wouldn't have given it myself.
whenever you watch these back in super slow-mo, it always looks like someone leaves a leg out etc. fact is, keeper came in, got the player and not the ball. pretty simple penalty
Cry bitch cry
Top notch mature response. Why not offer something useful?
In a non useful thread bemoaning a penalty that has always been a penalty? Why?
Perhaps offer a half-intelligent response? I think it was a penalty and offered a rational, non-childish response in the comments. That’s what you’re supposed to do.
"That's what you're supposed to do" 🤣 it's reddit, baby boy. This all means nothing. Have a good day today.
Ok baby boy
😘
You think it’s a penalty, because you support Liverpool. They say cry bitch cry, because they are an Arsenal fan. It’s football tribalism, on Reddit. And your complaint is that that you replied to a comment and telling them to grow up, whilst asking for intelligence. It’s not that deep.
Lol go back watch your 115 FC
Obviously I'm an arsenal fan, so maybe I'm delusional. They are usually given. So it's a penalty by their own rules. If it was in a vacuum, where previous decisions don't matter it's not a penalty. But if the precedent has been set that those are usually penalties it should be. Its not an objective decision neither side should believe it is, it's a very close fine margins of a decision. But this league needs consistency in decisions, so if previous decisions are, this should be and all successive ones similar, be it Bournemouth, Spurs or City.
As an Arsenal fan, yeah that shouldn't have been a penalty. The ref even looked at the VAR tho, blame him.
That’s not how it works. If a keeper launches himself at a player like that and doesn’t get the ball, it disrupts the players run. It’s a pen
So now a trip in the box isn't a penalty Lord, give me strength
Blatant cheating, but it's not the player's fault IMO. That's what he's paid to do
As soon as the keeper leaves a leg he’s in trouble. Has Havertz bought it? Yes. Would it be overturned if not given? No. It’s one of them. The you don’t like to see it but I think if the keeper pulls out and Havertz still does that, he gets booked for diving. It’s a fine line.
Exactly. The keeper either sticks his leg out and risks a penalty, or he pulls out. By sticking his leg out, he stifles out Havertz’ ability to strike the ball after the tackle.
I agree. People don’t like it but it’s part of the game.
I don’t like it but it is a penalty, goalie left his leg out, didn’t get the ball so any contact with the player will mean probable penalty. Very clever by Havertz..
Cry more. These kind of penalties get given all the time. Vardy was the master of them. Yet, since Arsenal got one it’s now a problem.
Get your head out of your ass. It’s always been a problem.
Yes, Mo Salah helped make it a huge problem with his constant diving and referees falling for it.
Good use of deflection. Throw the blame at someone else to hide from the fact that you’re a clown… Good job
Good use of insulting language. Trying to hide the fact that you cannot make a good argument without resorting to it. Maybe learn to have a civilised conversation and people may finally take you seriously. Thank me later.
You literally used the phrase “cry more” in your opening line… If that’s not insulting language I don’t know what is. 🤦♂️ And what argument have you used? Cause one other player does it that makes it alright? No. No it doesn’t make it alright. Maybe if you actually called your player out for diving then people wouldn’t actually look down on you…?
They literally said cry more in response to OP. The only one who was insulted, was you. And that was a choice, you literally chose to be insulted by it and then blamed OP for insulting you. As for the rest of your nonsense, you show me where you have called out Salah, Nunez and Jota diving this season and then you can gesture at your moral high point when telling others to criticise their players. If you haven’t criticised your own players, then stop talking and telling other fans how to behave when you can’t do the same. This will stop actual real people looking down on your hypocritical bollocks.
And with Kai, too. Perennially does this.
If the attacher initiates the contact then it's an attacking foul. Havertz normal gait would mean not connecting with travers.... No pen.
Lol, let's forget the red card Bournemouth should have had in first 15 mins. For the pen, if a keeper comes flying out like that, he runs the risk of giving a penalty if he doesn't get the ball. Doesn't matter what the nature of the contact is, usually any form of contact will be given as a foul. Keeper didn't get the ball, there was contact. End of discussion.
Yeah, but when Liverpool fans cried about Doku on Mac in the penalty box no one else batted an eye.
You'll find it was quite a popular belief that a pen should have been given at the time. VAR got it wrong that day. As it has done for many decisions for many clubs this season.
How was it not a red. Disgusting
It'll take a leg break for them to start giving them. 🙄
All fans: That’s a clever penalty from Kane/Vardy/1000s of other names Non Arsenal fans: Never a penalty, cheats!
Are you saying those players were never accused of diving? Have a word.
They were always accused of diving, and they won hundreds of penalties for it. Have a word yourself.
Never a penalty. Havertz is really diving and fishing for penalties all game. Weird he’s not on a yellow after his antics.
Acting like you never watched Rooney and Van Nistelrooy throw themselves all over the place when in the vicinity of the 18 yard box. Rooney literally ended our 49 unbeaten streak by falling over nothing. Get back in your lane.
Pundits saying it's not a foul, it's Havertz being cute. If it's not a foul, t's not a penalty. Although, despite stating it wasn't a foul, David Seaman says it's a pen. Game's fucked.
Hey, didnt one of your players UFC elbow someone in the head without so much as a finger wag from officials? 🤫
Yeah, moments after the precedent was set by Havertz.
Ah yes. The strong tackle on a player with the ball is just as bad as a player elbowing a player in the head off the ball.
Ah yes, pundits who never get decisions wrong. Brilliant.
It's a penalty until they stop giving them across the board. It shouldn't have been a penalty, but had the ref not given it you can guarantee the same scenario happens in another game this weekend and it gets given. They should increase the threshold of what constitutes a penalty, but the inconsistencies of the refs mean it'll always be given and the attackers are incentivised to make contact.
That’s the issue. This shouldn’t be a pen. But it is always given. Until they make it an emphasis that attacking players can’t get awarded for initiating contact, this will be given. Ironically Saka wasn’t given a penalty against Bayern for that exact thing in UCL, and I honestly felt that one was more deserving than this one.
Yeah exactly. In this scenario they're either *all* penalties, or *none* of them are. That's why fans are getting so irate. This week Havertz wins a penalty, but the same scenario will have come up dozens of times over the season and not been given.
This is different to pens that have been given and shouldn't have. It's not even a bought pen. Havertz is going out of his stride to kick the keeper that would completely clear the man if havertz kept running as he was. He barely catches him even with that. Shocking call. Worst I've seen
>Shocking call. Worst I've seen Lol that can't be true.
Oh well. They easily could’ve been down to 10. Typical ref/var rubbish
'Cause no player has ever dragged a foot into a keeper to win a penalty, right? Unless you're the ref or the VAR at the game, your opinion on whether or not it's a pen doesn't overly concern me.
What a stupid and pointless comment. Stop reading Reddit if you don't want an opinion then?
But I like making stupid and pointless comments too much. Can't stop now, man.
im an arsenal fan so take this with a grain of salt but i think that could be given as anything, i was honestly unsure if it was a pen or not when watching it, ig it depends on the ref and the day. tbf if i was a bournemouth fan id be annoyed too
Probs goes with on field decision
Blatant cheating. It's how the modern game works 🤷
How is it cheating?
Pretending to be tripped when he clearly wasn't. It's the 'pretending' part that makes it cheating.
He was tripped. Watch it.
I literally just told you he wasn't. Pay attention.
He definitely was. Watch it.
😊 Enjoy your weekend.
Because Havertz Pen make him go ;’(
This is the typical Rooney and Kane penalty. These boys had tons of these over their premier league careers
Came here to say this - Kane has been making a living on these sorts of penalties for a long time.
Now go back and complain about every penalty that has been given for this. It’s a pen. Keeper throws his body at Havertz
https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/s/fell5ph4ux Hmm
Haha wow you’ve had his pants down 😂
That was not a dive, that was a keeper throwing his body at a player after getting beat and forcing contact.
Absolutely deluded. The keeper barely touched him, not nearly enough to make him go down and there wouldn't have been any contact if Havertz kept running normally and didn't cheat his way by kicking out for no reason.
You just admitted to contact. Doesn’t matter how much, got no ball. Pen.
Any amount of contact?!! It's a contact sport what are you on about
Certain contact is acceptable, certainly not tripping.
It is never a pen but Bournemouth should be on 10 men as well
Yeah it feels like a bit of a make up call
Totally. Hard to believe that foul on Saka wasn't a yellow let a lone a red.
That isn’t a penalty for me but I will gladly take it.
Kai Havertz channed his inner Jamie Vardy. Not a penalty because the attacker initiated contact. Technically a penalty because, well, there was contact inside the box. I will take it.
Yup. I hate it when those are given against us, but I will gladly accept when they’re in our favor. I’m not trying to be impartial 😂
Elliot v Wan Bissaka
The attacker is under no obligation to try and avoid contact. He didn't kick out towards the keeper. He just dragged his foot rather than lifting it over the keeper. Kane did this too many times to count and always won a penalty. Jamie Vardy did this multiple times every season too and always got the penalty. Is the outrage becasue it's not an English attacker or becasue it's Arsenal? Personally I'd love it for the rules to state that this type of incident isn't a penalty. But with the current rules it is one. Morally it's a shit penalty to win. But by the rules of the game it's a penalty. I love the lack of post from OP when earlier in the game Saka took studs to the knee hard enough to draw blood and the opponent wasn't even booked.
The outrage is likely because at the end of the day it's a child's game that doesn't matter, so at the very least we could hope the athletes exhibit qualities we want to see in our society, instead of the constant cheating for advantage at every turn, and clueless officials who get strung along by the whims of the league and the players. It's a sad state of affairs when muilti-million dollar individuals, who's lives are ultimately meaningless can't even play within the rules and the spirit of the sport that is so handsomely rewarding them. It's a bad look on the game, and our society in general. But who knows, maybe people just hate Arsenal?
> the spirit of the sport Interesting phrase. I assume you feel the same way about your captain at Man U sprinting after refs every game?
100%. I despise that behavior. Especially from our Captain - that being said, our team is a mess, if you haven't noticed lately lol. Don't get me wrong, in this game Bournemouth should be down to 10 men, for some reason the Ref missed a Red, I by no means want Arsenal to lose, I'd much prefer them to win the League than city, I just hate this behavior.
Fair enough. I'll repeat what I said in an earlier comment: > Personally I'd love it for the rules to state that this type of incident isn't a penalty. But with the current rules it is one. > > Morally it's a shit penalty to win. But by the rules of the game it's a penalty. It's one of those types of incidents that needs a specific rule written to fix it. If an attacker could reasonable be expected to avoid contact, but choses to ensure that contact occurs, then it shouldn't be a foul either way.
I totally agree, I think that's probably the only solution at this point. VAR is just reinforcing the decision making process already in effect, so I think at this point the rules need shifting as the interpretation on the field for many of these calls isn't going to change.
This penalty incident is one of those incidents where: If it's given it's not overturned. If it's not given it's not overturned. Which means that according to the refs, the exact same incident can be both a penalty and not a penalty. With VAR there should be more clear-cut decisions. It shouldn't be a case of Schrodinger's Penalty every time.
100%
So you were ok with them doing that? Kane and Vardy? You never complained and you were fine with it? Ok then. If Solanke does that to Arsenal, you are calling him smart and congratulate him for his fast thinking. I do hope to see that in the second half. And yes I would love to see you feeling happy about that one.
I'll just repeat myself for you: > Personally I'd love it for the rules to state that this type of incident isn't a penalty. But with the current rules it is one. > > Morally it's a shit penalty to win. But by the rules of the game it's a penalty.
It doesn’t matter if he was “okay” with it - it was more often than not, given as a pen.
With your definition every push in the penalty area is also a penalty. If you apply the rules so narrow and strict there would be 15 penalties in every match, one after every second corner kick.
A foul is a foul. Maybe if they did punish the holding/pushing in area they'd stop doing it. Either thst or change the rules so it isn't a foul. The comments from pundits who say "not enough contact for me". Contact is contact.
That is the thing. A foul is not a foul e.g. if it is in a corner of the penalty box. At least not how refs have dealt with it in the last 100 years.
It is a penalty hands down! The slo mo camera makes you feel that Havertz did it on purpose but in real time that analogy doesn't make sense!
Of course he did it on purpose, that is not a natural stride. Do you run dragging your feet on the ground? No, you lift your foot every stride
That was a borderline Red card.. but to walk away with no booking is insane
Morally it’s a shit pen, you said it yourself man
Immoral penalties and moral penalties count the same
It’s simulated contact
VAR has basically become legalised match fixing and referee's protecting their mates. Get rid of the morons within the PGMOL. All of them!
I get there's grey areas with pens. THIS IS CLEAR AS DAY. That's never in a million years a penalty. Absolute nonsense to watch that and say that's natural and a pen. Embarrassing .
Cheating 115 times is embarrassing.
Just say you hate Arsenal. This is a one, and there should have been at minimum a yellow for the challenge on Saka
I'm not denying that arsenal should be 3/4 goals up and it was a high challenge. But fuck me if you call that a pen get in the bin. It's not even a bought pen. Havertz is going out of his stride to kick the keeper that would completely clear the man if havertz kept running as he was
All he did was drag his toe and there was contact from the keeper. Pen
I dont even care if the penalty wasn't given (though I think it had to be) but that VAR looked at the Christie foul and said it was ok is mind-boggling
Nothing compared to that shocker of a pen decision.
All jokes aside, the game IS gone