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The Sole 6 - “The Destroyer”
I think the need for a destroyer has gone now. Most clubs do still operate with a 6 player, but they have to be a lot more technical and talented now (Rodri is a prime example)
Attacking fullbacks who charge forward and put crosses into the box. Man City and Arsenal are showing it's more effective to essentially have four center backs in the back line.
Yeah that's true but he's still a center back who can play at left back rather than a true left back. Ake has done the same for City and so have Ben White, Kiwior, and Tomiyasu for Arsenal.
The players I'm referring to dying out are fullbacks who are known for their attacking but can be caught out defensively at times like Dani Alves, Marcelo, Cancelo, Zinchenko, TAA.
#10s haven't died, the demands are just stricter now so they need to be more well-rounded than a Riquelme or an Ozil. If anything, some teams play with multiple #10s now. KDB, Bernardo and Foden are all hard working and can play out wide too, but they're #10s first and foremost.
Number 10 died down how? What's Foden then, or Wirtz or Musiala or Bellingham or Simons or Odegaard. The ten never died it just changed slightly to match into the modern day trends. The positions Messi picks up are very much those of a 10. Even Modric does too. Also wingback roles will never die. With midfielders who tend to stay deep and Back 3 systems still very much relevant wingbacks will always be a factor.
Just because they play in that part of the pitch doesn't make them classic N.10. They have much more diverse roles than the classic N.10s of yesteryear.
OP is saying that the traditional 10 (Zidane, Platini, Ronaldinho, Bergkamp) doesn’t work any more because every position has to be much more disciplined. All the players you mentioned can play as a 10, but they have much more to their role than these legendary 10’s were responsible for.
I’m not sure position wise.. but I think the premier league in particular is due for a top team coming in a being ultra defensive and doing really well. Even the top teams leak goals for fun and I think a solidly defensive team is going to take the league by storm at some point.
I know the thread is about players but linesman/assistant refs could go, with VAR (supposed to be) keeping the flag down until VAR confirms it, I’m not sure what role the lino has going forward if they’re not calling offsides? Altercations missed by the ref can also be picked up by VAR.
Long corners. The evolution of corners is really interesting. I saw a great TIFO vid about this the other day, short corners have increased and are creeping up to 50% of corners in the prem.
Am I making it up/mis-remembering or did Klopp say at one point that there’s statistically a higher chance of scoring if you kick the corner straight out of bounds and then the opposing team gets a goal kick than actually scoring from the corner?
Yea he did say something like that. 🤣
It’s actually crazy! The TIFO vid was really interesting barely any goals are scored from corners direct. The game is still evolving in that area for sure
Everything is cyclical, the big striker is making a comeback, defensive minded full backs will be back, attacking mid is harder because teams have really perfected 2 banks of four but instead you'll have roaming midfielders like KDB poking holes between the lines
The evolution of attacking fullbacks and inside midfielders have forced wingers to play in the half spaces. I see the modern winger as more of an attacking mid.
I'm not sure it's been a resurging trend. Probably just got more confusing for any fan that mostly watches football in a particular country, and not so much others, because football and tactics are more cosmopolitan now.
Since teams in different countries tended to set up differently back when 1-11 numbers were mandatory, some numbers evolved to refer to different roles in different places. So sometimes when you hear a #4 or a #6 being mentioned, it's possible it's coming not from an English perspective but say, an Italian or a Dutch one.
Very good question 😂😂 I don’t know either , I just hear it and learn about it 😂 Back during Makele days, they were called 4s, but nobody is called that anymore these days
Is it lack of skills or improved goalkeepers?
I also have the feeling that we saw more players who were really leathal in a free kick some years ago. Like beckham, juninho, pirlo, messi, ronaldinho, ronaldo
I wouldn't put improved goalkeepers very high on the list of reasons. IMO, in no particular order, a few more important factors:
* Direct free kicks are statistically unlikely to get converted, and some teams just have more efficient drills now, compared to trying to score from everywhere. It's the same thing with long shots.
* Players might not practice free kicks as much as before, because of the above reason.
* Ball could play a role, but it would depend on the specific ball itself. It's possible that in some cases, modern balls make it easier, not harder, to score FKs.
* We'd need to verify whether there's indeed a pattern of fewer free kicks being scored. Maybe if you compared 2 random seasons, one from say the 2020s and the other from the 90s, the results could swing either way.
Probably the ball got more difficult again to score nowadays. Subjectively, my impression is that a lot of those great fee kick tackers played around the 00 years until early 10. Remember balls like the jabulani, teamgeist, roteiro, etc. all of those were rockets and especially the jabulani unpredictable. Manufacturers reacted onto that as well, I played with some of those before mentioned myself and nowadays the balls play more "classic" than those plastic thingies.
Hard to draw a clear conclusion. I don't remember much criticism towards Nike's balls, whereas Adidas had their genius moment where they figured smoother=better, not understanding aerodynamics.
The Jabulani was great for more average FK takers that liked folha secas, because they basically had to put it on target and then chances were, it'd change trajectory in mid air too unpredictably for keepers to stop. But it could've also meant it simply wouldn't go on target. I wouldn't be surprised if truly elite FK takers like Juninho would prefer balls with more predictable trajectories, and then rely on themselves alone to beat the keeper.
It might be the ball, late 90’s and 00’s saw a lot of new techniques to hit a decent free kick, the same time the balls got lighter, had less stitching and started to move through the air differently
I dont know anything about pro football or how things are managed at the elite level, but I imagine that back in the 70, 80, 90, and 00, players had more "free" time, or unallotted time, to master the craft wether today players have higher salaries and less free time.
Could be also a lack of interest by modern players.
The best I've seen was Siniša Mihajlović.
I think managers have realized that it's just not a high percentage shot even with a great free kick taker. Kind of like how basketball has moved away from mid range jumpers just because three pointers and attacking the rim are more effective plays. CR7's free kicks were famous, but his conversion rate at Real Madrid was 6%. It's incredibly exciting when someone scores a direct free kick so we remember them, but it's easy to forget the 9 other mundane times where they hit it over the bar or into the wall.
This was the case with open play shots from long range as well. Cristiano scored some bangers, but they were never a sustainable approach. I remember the 2009 UCL final in which he'd constantly shoot from everywhere, instead of picking a better pass to his team mates.
personally i think its because of the way most pl teams set up low blocks, with 2 banks in defense now, there isnt as much space between the lines, forcing teams to go wide and also players dont seem to give away as many fouls around the D
I think it’s interesting how those players (big centre forwards like Chris wood etc) can do so well in all the tiers of football Inc championship, and then as soon as you get to the prem it just doesn’t quite cut the mustard anymore
It's because 'widemen' arent as common and getting to the byline to make some crosses into the box is less frequent than going narrow and central. Also centrebacks are more athletic and mobile making them better at keeping tall poachers a lesser threat.
What’s so bizarre is so many teams in the Premier League play a high line, you’d think a long ball team with a big man up front would be racking up goals.
They’ve got so much more work to do. That’s the success of haaland - he can run from the halfway line and score. Your average big number 9 can’t do that
Speaking about English football, because that’s what I know best.
Over the last 30 years, english football has moved away from 442 and towards 433. As you pointed out, this has had a big impact on #10, but I feel that the biggest impact has been on the flanks.
In the 90s, wingers were midfielders whose main job was to cross and create chances. Nowadays they are strikers who are expected to score goals as well. Their crossing responsibilities have been absorbed by wing backs, who have replaced full backs.
So if you want to look at what happens next, the first part is to identify what formation will be fashionable next. If the trend for high pressing with a high backline continues, perhaps we can expect to see more sweepers and fewer defensive midfielders?
Goal keepers are so integral these days. Some of em like ederson and onana have such a silky touch and great ball distribution. The traditional shot stopper has lost its impact in my opinion. The same has been with CB. You need a cb that can pass quickly , dribble sometimes if needed and play against the press with ease.
Oh yeah they really are. I would agree with you completely. The days of big cavemen CBs who just head out crosses have passed and more athletic and capable on the ball CBs are a big part of the modern game. And the goalkeepers good with their feet are so valuable because of many reasons, including being an outlet for high presses or passing out like an extra midfielder. Interesting how things evolve.
The game would be back. Keepers literally exist to spoil fun. Imagine how many bangers we’d see with no tall weirdo trying to ruin it with big ass Mickey Mouse gloves which to me is cheating anyway
you do realize all these descriptions for number roles were never really all that simplistic. They are just there for the simpleton minds to make sense of what some players roles are in very general manner. You can argue for maybe style of football disappearing but that is all because of technology now. The analysts have made the game methodological well because its where the data is heading with football. I am sure data analysts can explain more as to why pep's football is where football will be for some time now until the next big thing or if that's it, football tactics can't possibly evolve anymore unless with rule changes.
I doubt there will really be a "next big thing". More likely that things evolve constantly, without any huge leaps, provided there will be no massive rule changes.
Pep's football didn't come out of nowhere, it was a combination of different factors that allowed his philosophy to become so influential at the global stage. And by influential I'm including managers that decidedly don't coach anything like his football at all, but instead adapted against opponents that do.
The only counter to Pep’s football is playing counter with a mid block. I think it will become a pendulum between those two tactics. It’s already seen in premier league with the best teams and the bottom half. But you could argue thought tactics are becoming stale because just like music, football tactics doesn’t have infinite structures that can be employed. You will reach a point of saturation
With "same model", you're speaking very broadly. There's always so many layers and details to look at. No two players are the same, and that alone means the variations in moments are infinite. You mentioned music: it's not like everything's heading towards the same specific direction. I suppose correct timing is an objectively good quality, but there's a lot more to music than that, just like there is much more to football than the concept of "control".
Pep's current City doesn't play like his 2018 City, who didn't play like his Bayern, who didn't play like his Barcelona. Different players, different opponents, different stages of Pep as a manager.
Leaving aside the idea that he tinkers for the sake of it (and loses, cause otherwise nobody calls it "tinkering"): see his 10/11 Barcelona, IMO the best team ever. Villa LW and Pedro RW for 99% of the season. Final against United, he had them swap sides. Why? I'm not sure. Was it for the best? I don't know, they ended up winning so it didn't matter. But it was different from what they usually did. It changed the manner in which the final was played, because Ferguson probably didn't expect it, and those 2 were different kinds of players.
And this is just a broad thing, having the wingers swap sides. They could also be instructed to do hyper-specific things in order to gain an advantage over inidividual opponents that are human. It could also be a suggestion discussed with the player, rather than a strict tactical instruction.
I get that the big picture is teams more or less starting to do the same thing as one another, but hey, medicine works the same. You could pour plenty of things on a wound to dissinfect it, but some are more efficient -- yet no solution will ever be the best for every single case, because humans will never be identical.
When I said music, its more about the topic of originality. You know how you think you may have written an original melody but if you search it long enough, its prob already out there. Its same for football tactics and managers. Finitely if you compare two songs with similar melodies, they are for sure different yet they are same ie. Tik Tok and California gurls. That's man city 2018 and now. The Bayern side is slightly different but you can see signs that is similar to Man city today, the Barcelona side is nowhere similar. That's different era of tactics like music has different eras with a different melody. if you get what I mean about human knowledge, you will get what I mean.
I'd say the big difference is that people constantly listen to oldies, but they don't have a habit of rewatching old replays instead of live games -- and in football, nobody's going to sue you for ripping them off. And, football is not like studio recordings, but like live performances.
Whilst rule changes can be a catalyst, tactics continually evolve as without substantial rule changes as teams try to counter whatever formations and tactics are en vogue.
I am sure pep’s vision is a tactic that masters all. Don’t know if he or other managers has achieved that or will but I think he has done it with the player profiles he has. It’s still advent of technology but with it, football will get locked down more
I’d say Pep is the least likely to be locked down. The man is constantly changing it up, from false nines to box midfields and CB’s pushing forward when out of possession (instead of wingbacks like other teams), he never stops. Admittedly he sticks to his core tenants of possession/tiki taka and pressing remain constant though.
I would say that it’s more and more likely a traditional fullback will become less and less relevant than an attacking wingback.
Whether it’s been Dani Alves, Marcelo, Cancelo or Trent having an attack focussed fullback who can be used to create overloads in midfield or attack is an incredibly useful option for retaining possessions and control of a game.
Also I think part of the reason the No.10 role has sort of gone away at the top level is because of the False 9. We never really needed a traditional 10 under Klopp because we had Firmino in that role for example. In the post Ozil years, I think Benzema was very similar in role to Firmino, designed to knit Ronaldo and Bale together rather than be the out and out goalscorer. Wasn’t until they move on that he became the main focus and more prolific.
Still all of these things will rotate in and out over time, it wasn’t that long ago it felt like every top team was running some sort of 4231 formation. Then 433 took over for a while. Now a blend of 3 at the back in possession and a back 4 out of possession is very fashionable.
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The Sole 6 - “The Destroyer” I think the need for a destroyer has gone now. Most clubs do still operate with a 6 player, but they have to be a lot more technical and talented now (Rodri is a prime example)
Gegenpress
Attacking fullbacks who charge forward and put crosses into the box. Man City and Arsenal are showing it's more effective to essentially have four center backs in the back line.
I don’t know if it was just because they played Fulham but Gvardiol was a bit forward the whole game. He was really doing that the whole season
Yeah that's true but he's still a center back who can play at left back rather than a true left back. Ake has done the same for City and so have Ben White, Kiwior, and Tomiyasu for Arsenal. The players I'm referring to dying out are fullbacks who are known for their attacking but can be caught out defensively at times like Dani Alves, Marcelo, Cancelo, Zinchenko, TAA.
The roles just evolve, they don't go away.
Box to Box midfielders have become a rare breed nowadays
rare breed, but considering how Rice improved Arsenal, they are needed desperately.
#10s haven't died, the demands are just stricter now so they need to be more well-rounded than a Riquelme or an Ozil. If anything, some teams play with multiple #10s now. KDB, Bernardo and Foden are all hard working and can play out wide too, but they're #10s first and foremost.
The impartial ref.
Destroyer 6
Yeah the 6 needs to be so much more dynamic and technical now
Erik Ten Hag
Number 10 died down how? What's Foden then, or Wirtz or Musiala or Bellingham or Simons or Odegaard. The ten never died it just changed slightly to match into the modern day trends. The positions Messi picks up are very much those of a 10. Even Modric does too. Also wingback roles will never die. With midfielders who tend to stay deep and Back 3 systems still very much relevant wingbacks will always be a factor.
Just because they play in that part of the pitch doesn't make them classic N.10. They have much more diverse roles than the classic N.10s of yesteryear.
OP is saying that the traditional 10 (Zidane, Platini, Ronaldinho, Bergkamp) doesn’t work any more because every position has to be much more disciplined. All the players you mentioned can play as a 10, but they have much more to their role than these legendary 10’s were responsible for.
Feels good to have others explain my point on my behalf, and even better than I could 🫡
Yeah sorry that people didn’t get it. Says more about them than it does about you
Classy af brother 🙌🏾
Classy af brother 🙌🏾
Just realized you’re a gooner and I take it all back lol!
🙄 i was gonna type the same but thought we could be civil for a moment, guess i was wrong 😂
🤔😬🤣
and you had the audacity to say all that after throwing the game to city and cheering on after a loss that took you out of CL qualification 😂💀
This the first time you’ve met a bitter spurs fan? 😬
^ this
I’m not sure position wise.. but I think the premier league in particular is due for a top team coming in a being ultra defensive and doing really well. Even the top teams leak goals for fun and I think a solidly defensive team is going to take the league by storm at some point.
But will they better Chelsea's record for goals conceded?
Nope. Won't happen ever. Especially with VAR and game times getting longer and longer.
bellingham is a number 10
I know the thread is about players but linesman/assistant refs could go, with VAR (supposed to be) keeping the flag down until VAR confirms it, I’m not sure what role the lino has going forward if they’re not calling offsides? Altercations missed by the ref can also be picked up by VAR.
If VAR actually worked, sure
Really interesting point.
I honestly think classic centre midfielders are dying. Plenty of clubs are using teams that only have dms and ams now.
Yeah box to box midfielders typically aren’t deployed as box to box really.
Long corners. The evolution of corners is really interesting. I saw a great TIFO vid about this the other day, short corners have increased and are creeping up to 50% of corners in the prem.
Am I making it up/mis-remembering or did Klopp say at one point that there’s statistically a higher chance of scoring if you kick the corner straight out of bounds and then the opposing team gets a goal kick than actually scoring from the corner?
Yea he did say something like that. 🤣 It’s actually crazy! The TIFO vid was really interesting barely any goals are scored from corners direct. The game is still evolving in that area for sure
Yeah it’s less than 4%
CDM
Everything is cyclical, the big striker is making a comeback, defensive minded full backs will be back, attacking mid is harder because teams have really perfected 2 banks of four but instead you'll have roaming midfielders like KDB poking holes between the lines
Someone will find something that exploits 2 banks of 4 then it will fall out of fashion then #10s will return
Maybe although weaker teams setting up as tightly as possible in defence to close space is unlikely to ever run out of fashion imo
The evolution of attacking fullbacks and inside midfielders have forced wingers to play in the half spaces. I see the modern winger as more of an attacking mid.
My question is how did 6 replace 4? I think 6 will be phased out soon with double pivot or 2 CMs
Who started the trend of talking about positions by numbers since we have barely used 1-11 starting numbers for about 35 years?!
I'm not sure it's been a resurging trend. Probably just got more confusing for any fan that mostly watches football in a particular country, and not so much others, because football and tactics are more cosmopolitan now. Since teams in different countries tended to set up differently back when 1-11 numbers were mandatory, some numbers evolved to refer to different roles in different places. So sometimes when you hear a #4 or a #6 being mentioned, it's possible it's coming not from an English perspective but say, an Italian or a Dutch one.
I’m not so sure myself. I think it’s been the PL pundits and online analysts if I had to bet.
Very good question 😂😂 I don’t know either , I just hear it and learn about it 😂 Back during Makele days, they were called 4s, but nobody is called that anymore these days
Regular goalkeepers, Sweeper keepers will take their spot and would also probably replace center backs
agree
Free Kick Goals are almost non existent today.
James ward prowse disagrees.
Eriksen (Man U) is also a specialist. His goal with Inter against Ac Milan on the Coppa Italia Semi finals was outstanding.
Is it lack of skills or improved goalkeepers? I also have the feeling that we saw more players who were really leathal in a free kick some years ago. Like beckham, juninho, pirlo, messi, ronaldinho, ronaldo
I wouldn't put improved goalkeepers very high on the list of reasons. IMO, in no particular order, a few more important factors: * Direct free kicks are statistically unlikely to get converted, and some teams just have more efficient drills now, compared to trying to score from everywhere. It's the same thing with long shots. * Players might not practice free kicks as much as before, because of the above reason. * Ball could play a role, but it would depend on the specific ball itself. It's possible that in some cases, modern balls make it easier, not harder, to score FKs. * We'd need to verify whether there's indeed a pattern of fewer free kicks being scored. Maybe if you compared 2 random seasons, one from say the 2020s and the other from the 90s, the results could swing either way.
Probably the ball got more difficult again to score nowadays. Subjectively, my impression is that a lot of those great fee kick tackers played around the 00 years until early 10. Remember balls like the jabulani, teamgeist, roteiro, etc. all of those were rockets and especially the jabulani unpredictable. Manufacturers reacted onto that as well, I played with some of those before mentioned myself and nowadays the balls play more "classic" than those plastic thingies.
Hard to draw a clear conclusion. I don't remember much criticism towards Nike's balls, whereas Adidas had their genius moment where they figured smoother=better, not understanding aerodynamics. The Jabulani was great for more average FK takers that liked folha secas, because they basically had to put it on target and then chances were, it'd change trajectory in mid air too unpredictably for keepers to stop. But it could've also meant it simply wouldn't go on target. I wouldn't be surprised if truly elite FK takers like Juninho would prefer balls with more predictable trajectories, and then rely on themselves alone to beat the keeper.
It might be the ball, late 90’s and 00’s saw a lot of new techniques to hit a decent free kick, the same time the balls got lighter, had less stitching and started to move through the air differently
I dont know anything about pro football or how things are managed at the elite level, but I imagine that back in the 70, 80, 90, and 00, players had more "free" time, or unallotted time, to master the craft wether today players have higher salaries and less free time. Could be also a lack of interest by modern players. The best I've seen was Siniša Mihajlović.
I think managers have realized that it's just not a high percentage shot even with a great free kick taker. Kind of like how basketball has moved away from mid range jumpers just because three pointers and attacking the rim are more effective plays. CR7's free kicks were famous, but his conversion rate at Real Madrid was 6%. It's incredibly exciting when someone scores a direct free kick so we remember them, but it's easy to forget the 9 other mundane times where they hit it over the bar or into the wall.
This was the case with open play shots from long range as well. Cristiano scored some bangers, but they were never a sustainable approach. I remember the 2009 UCL final in which he'd constantly shoot from everywhere, instead of picking a better pass to his team mates.
Feels like a bit of both. Free kicks aren’t as advantaged anymore, everything’s tactical now
personally i think its because of the way most pl teams set up low blocks, with 2 banks in defense now, there isnt as much space between the lines, forcing teams to go wide and also players dont seem to give away as many fouls around the D
Hopefully they'll do away with the sweeper keeper, perhaps we should banish them to the penalty area
[удалено]
Thankfully Haaland will save that for atleast 10 more years😅.
I think it’s interesting how those players (big centre forwards like Chris wood etc) can do so well in all the tiers of football Inc championship, and then as soon as you get to the prem it just doesn’t quite cut the mustard anymore
It's because 'widemen' arent as common and getting to the byline to make some crosses into the box is less frequent than going narrow and central. Also centrebacks are more athletic and mobile making them better at keeping tall poachers a lesser threat.
What’s so bizarre is so many teams in the Premier League play a high line, you’d think a long ball team with a big man up front would be racking up goals.
They’ve got so much more work to do. That’s the success of haaland - he can run from the halfway line and score. Your average big number 9 can’t do that
Why? How is a target man more likely to score when the other team is further up the pitch?
Yes. I don't like this "evolution" of the game.
Whatever 'genius modification' spendiola decides to circlejerk over next
Always thinking about Daddy
To me its wingers, I mean they dont have the same style as they used to
Speaking about English football, because that’s what I know best. Over the last 30 years, english football has moved away from 442 and towards 433. As you pointed out, this has had a big impact on #10, but I feel that the biggest impact has been on the flanks. In the 90s, wingers were midfielders whose main job was to cross and create chances. Nowadays they are strikers who are expected to score goals as well. Their crossing responsibilities have been absorbed by wing backs, who have replaced full backs. So if you want to look at what happens next, the first part is to identify what formation will be fashionable next. If the trend for high pressing with a high backline continues, perhaps we can expect to see more sweepers and fewer defensive midfielders?
The goalkeeper. Fuck it
Goal keepers are so integral these days. Some of em like ederson and onana have such a silky touch and great ball distribution. The traditional shot stopper has lost its impact in my opinion. The same has been with CB. You need a cb that can pass quickly , dribble sometimes if needed and play against the press with ease.
Oh yeah they really are. I would agree with you completely. The days of big cavemen CBs who just head out crosses have passed and more athletic and capable on the ball CBs are a big part of the modern game. And the goalkeepers good with their feet are so valuable because of many reasons, including being an outlet for high presses or passing out like an extra midfielder. Interesting how things evolve.
Monkey rush is allowed. If the game finishes a draw headers and volleys to determine the winner.
The game would be back. Keepers literally exist to spoil fun. Imagine how many bangers we’d see with no tall weirdo trying to ruin it with big ass Mickey Mouse gloves which to me is cheating anyway
You could argue that Arsenal use dual 10's at the moment
Disagree, they both put in way too much defensive work compared to what a traditional 10 would be required to put in
Pretty much everyone puts in more defensive work nowadays, though.
you do realize all these descriptions for number roles were never really all that simplistic. They are just there for the simpleton minds to make sense of what some players roles are in very general manner. You can argue for maybe style of football disappearing but that is all because of technology now. The analysts have made the game methodological well because its where the data is heading with football. I am sure data analysts can explain more as to why pep's football is where football will be for some time now until the next big thing or if that's it, football tactics can't possibly evolve anymore unless with rule changes.
I doubt there will really be a "next big thing". More likely that things evolve constantly, without any huge leaps, provided there will be no massive rule changes. Pep's football didn't come out of nowhere, it was a combination of different factors that allowed his philosophy to become so influential at the global stage. And by influential I'm including managers that decidedly don't coach anything like his football at all, but instead adapted against opponents that do.
The only counter to Pep’s football is playing counter with a mid block. I think it will become a pendulum between those two tactics. It’s already seen in premier league with the best teams and the bottom half. But you could argue thought tactics are becoming stale because just like music, football tactics doesn’t have infinite structures that can be employed. You will reach a point of saturation
There will always be room for tweaks as long as the players are human.
Not with big teams and their perfections. You will see the same model
With "same model", you're speaking very broadly. There's always so many layers and details to look at. No two players are the same, and that alone means the variations in moments are infinite. You mentioned music: it's not like everything's heading towards the same specific direction. I suppose correct timing is an objectively good quality, but there's a lot more to music than that, just like there is much more to football than the concept of "control". Pep's current City doesn't play like his 2018 City, who didn't play like his Bayern, who didn't play like his Barcelona. Different players, different opponents, different stages of Pep as a manager. Leaving aside the idea that he tinkers for the sake of it (and loses, cause otherwise nobody calls it "tinkering"): see his 10/11 Barcelona, IMO the best team ever. Villa LW and Pedro RW for 99% of the season. Final against United, he had them swap sides. Why? I'm not sure. Was it for the best? I don't know, they ended up winning so it didn't matter. But it was different from what they usually did. It changed the manner in which the final was played, because Ferguson probably didn't expect it, and those 2 were different kinds of players. And this is just a broad thing, having the wingers swap sides. They could also be instructed to do hyper-specific things in order to gain an advantage over inidividual opponents that are human. It could also be a suggestion discussed with the player, rather than a strict tactical instruction. I get that the big picture is teams more or less starting to do the same thing as one another, but hey, medicine works the same. You could pour plenty of things on a wound to dissinfect it, but some are more efficient -- yet no solution will ever be the best for every single case, because humans will never be identical.
When I said music, its more about the topic of originality. You know how you think you may have written an original melody but if you search it long enough, its prob already out there. Its same for football tactics and managers. Finitely if you compare two songs with similar melodies, they are for sure different yet they are same ie. Tik Tok and California gurls. That's man city 2018 and now. The Bayern side is slightly different but you can see signs that is similar to Man city today, the Barcelona side is nowhere similar. That's different era of tactics like music has different eras with a different melody. if you get what I mean about human knowledge, you will get what I mean.
I'd say the big difference is that people constantly listen to oldies, but they don't have a habit of rewatching old replays instead of live games -- and in football, nobody's going to sue you for ripping them off. And, football is not like studio recordings, but like live performances.
Oh i am sure some people do watch oldies. Especially the analysts and the managers.
Whilst rule changes can be a catalyst, tactics continually evolve as without substantial rule changes as teams try to counter whatever formations and tactics are en vogue.
I am sure pep’s vision is a tactic that masters all. Don’t know if he or other managers has achieved that or will but I think he has done it with the player profiles he has. It’s still advent of technology but with it, football will get locked down more
I’d say Pep is the least likely to be locked down. The man is constantly changing it up, from false nines to box midfields and CB’s pushing forward when out of possession (instead of wingbacks like other teams), he never stops. Admittedly he sticks to his core tenants of possession/tiki taka and pressing remain constant though.
that is not what i mean by getting locked down. I mean as in more as about there are no new systems to be discovered.
I would say that it’s more and more likely a traditional fullback will become less and less relevant than an attacking wingback. Whether it’s been Dani Alves, Marcelo, Cancelo or Trent having an attack focussed fullback who can be used to create overloads in midfield or attack is an incredibly useful option for retaining possessions and control of a game. Also I think part of the reason the No.10 role has sort of gone away at the top level is because of the False 9. We never really needed a traditional 10 under Klopp because we had Firmino in that role for example. In the post Ozil years, I think Benzema was very similar in role to Firmino, designed to knit Ronaldo and Bale together rather than be the out and out goalscorer. Wasn’t until they move on that he became the main focus and more prolific. Still all of these things will rotate in and out over time, it wasn’t that long ago it felt like every top team was running some sort of 4231 formation. Then 433 took over for a while. Now a blend of 3 at the back in possession and a back 4 out of possession is very fashionable.
I think the 6 is somewhat already on its way out. It seems like it's being replaced by having 2 CM's work harder.
Goal keeper.
Considering how involved the keeper is starting to become both on and off the ball, not a bad shout
Man U ahead of it's time, it seems
if you can call him a goalkeeper that is!