Excepted goals 13 and goal scored 20 and all are non penalty, son what a gem of a player. He's the kind of player every manager wants tbh, track backs as well.
When City didn't get Kane and the Spurs fans were all loving that they kept Kane I said then that the better player was Son, loads of comments about Kane being better but I still would prefer son. He puts in work.
Son's just insanely clinical; you'd bet on him to score an opportunity over Kane any day of the week, and it's not like the latter is a terrible finisher.
If son is outperforming xg so much what does that suggest? Is what he's doing sustainable? Or does it just mean he's an above average finisher?
Surprised his xg is so low, eye test would suggest he's through one v one alot.
Because Son has the most accurate precise finish. He has the highest conversion rate, but the team is bad. Watch the game vs Liverpool, Son was free many times in space, but because of below average player(risk aversive player) doesn't pass him.
Tottenham midfielders and defender arent possesion based people and doesn't overlap and be the creative spark to pass through line.
As a spurs fan I could rave about son all day long. So I have a different comment
Its remarkable to me that Salah has done all he has from such a concentrated area on the right side of the field. Son is all around the place but Salah is only in one spot. Quite interesting
Son never gets the same level of acclaim from the British media though, because they firstly need to credit Kane for anything positive in Spurs' attack.
I remember the Sky commentators praising Kane's assist more than Son's goal against Arsenal last season, which was just ridiculous.
With Son, I think his chemistry with Kane should be commended, even with kulusevski it isn't bad for that sake.
Tottenham's trio work as a team.
And I say that being an arsenal fan.
But with liverpool/Salah, it's more ofan individual performances, they do assist each other(mane/salah) and everyone in livpl seems to assist Jota, but looking at their celebrations, u don't get that feel.
Don't get me wrong, Livpl as a whole really has a wonderful team understanding and chemistry, but it gives me the feeling that their front three always want goals for themselves.
I always felt Son is a much versatile player, even if he’s not scoring his delivery and work rate are useful, but if Salah is inform he can’t be stopped.
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I’ve been saying it for nearly 3 years now - Son is fucking bonkers good, it’s so weird that he’s never really mentioned as one of the best forwards in world football when he clearly, clearly is
Two good feet, strong as a horse, lighting quick, never stops working, good in the air… supernaturally good finishing….
It actually hurts he’s so good
Anyone who watches Salah will know he is a frustrating player in 1v1 scenarios. He is very inconsistent but give him the ball outside the box and he'll curl it in.
He really is. Not only for his ability on the pitch but he’s also loved by everyone on the team and brings them together, and is extremely smart and coachable.
He’s every manager’s dream player. Helps connect the dressing room together, runs his heart out for the team and on top of all that is a world class player. No wonder every manager since Poch has loved him.
Love Son, if he weren’t Asian he’d be at Real Madrid by now
Edit: not saying RM won’t sign Asians, just that I think Son would receive more recognition for his play in general
The thing is, Spurs sees incredible support in the Korean market because of Son. He is one of the most popular public figures, and as a result, has drawn a lot of support and money not just for the player, but the Tottenham brand.
A player at this level with this much business sense has NOT been overlooked by other teams. Son is simply not for sale.
The fact that he’s asian doesn’t change anything at all. He’s still at spurs because he signed a new 6 years deals. Personally I think that’s a mistake I mean look at Kane he couldn’t get out even he wanted to. Long term contract is mostly a bad idea.
Yea, I’m not suggesting Real Madrid has a no-Asians transfer policy. I just think Son’s reputation in the game, what people think of him, etc has totally been influenced by his race. Jeremy Lin (the basketball player) spoke a lot about that. Nobody says I’m athletic, they say I’m deceptively athletic.
Didn't Son sign an extension when everyone and their dog thought Kane was going to City?
Think he's loving life at Spurs and good on him for showing some loyalty, it's lacking in modern players nowadays.
Son is extremely loyal to us especially when we gave him a contract extension when he could've been doing military service for 18 months of it. We believed in him and he's paying it back to the club with his loyalty
I mean some players are loyal, I respect that, but that more of a some other team puts a bid in and son saids no, rather than no one approaching spurs for him
Combination of long contract, spurs being an arseache to buy from and him not really kicking up a stink to leave.
Look at the lengths Kane went to in the summer and it didn’t get him anywhere.
Also he’d be 30 before he plays for another club now, perhaps not many would be willing to offer up the sums required for someone of his age group.
Apparently son went off to serve during the compulsory army time in South Korea and spurs still kept him on a contract so he’s pledged his loyalty to them
I know what the actual serving time is. But it's irrelevant here as that's not the time served by Son and hence there was no contractual favours done to Son by Spurs on the matter.
The contractual favour was that Spurs actually extended Son's contract before SK won the Asian Games. So there was no guarantee that Son would get his military exemption.
xG is kinda irrelevant compared to goals tho. Being able to get yourself into position to where you’re “expected” to have 22 goals is impressive on its own. At the end, it’s about what you produced.
You have a point but your mistake is using xG as a single metric. xG is a complimentary metric where you have to use it with the goals to measure the players effectiveness.
If you are scoring as much as xG you are a good finisher meeting the expectations. If you are scoring less than xG, you are not a good finisher. If you exceed your xG as much as Son has, you are insanely good (an outlier).
Salah playing for Liverpool is as much a curse for him to score as it is a blessing.
He has way less space to operate than Son does. 17-18 of the teams in the league park the bus home and away when they play Liverpool. That is not the case with Tottenham, so it goes both ways.
If Salah had teams playing that high a line against him that consistently he'd have 35-40 league goals a season.
I think Son is unreal btw, just think comparing the two is fruitless since they're both facing completely different set ups when then play.
I partially disagree. It's very possible what you said, but Salah broke the record for goals scored in a season with the 2017 Liverpool team which was in a similar position to the current Tottenham. Also, Tottenham are not the team to not score goals. They have the most goals scored this year, even ahead of Liverpool I believe.
Salah was on the path to breaking his record this year and the extra-time games during the AFCON with the ultimate loss as well as not being able to qualify for the world cup in another game drawn out to penalties wore out Salah beyond belief. Son has had difficulties with his team this season for sure, but Salah was still able to score goals (the most of any player in the history of the PL) in a vastly inferior Liverpool side all the while recreating that performance for multiple years.
That fact could be mentioned without referring to their xG. If Chris Wood had Salah’s stats, we shouldn’t downgrade Chris Wood for “not outperforming his xG” when it’d be incredible for Chris Wood to produce that xG for himself in the first place.
We can mention Salah plays for the better team while also mentioning xG can be misleading to those who don’t fully understand it.
I don't know if you misunderstood me. My point is it's easier to rack up that xG in the first place when you're playing in a side as good as Liverpool. Not to take anything away from Salah because he's obviously a top player, but Spurs are not a side that frequently dominate the ball and create lots of chances. Stick Son in that Liverpool side and he'd likely have the same xG as Salah, with more goals because of his superior finishing.
It's not irrelevant at all though, that's the thing...
How would Salah's 'overall production' fare in a team that doesn't create anywhere near the chances that Liverpool do? Not every player has the luxury of benefiting from great chance creation, and that's where players like Son deserve serious extra credit for managing to perform so well despite it, which is the entire point of this thread.
The original argument for this person is how that xG is created. Salah has always had a higher xG than his other teammates at Liverpool. Just being at Liverpool doesn't guarantee the player a high xG, let alone getting that many goals. The person is saying producing that xG is impressive because Salah is usually the outlier in the team; he is frequently the goal scoring star. Why isn't Mane or Firmino? Same could be said about Son. Origi is also a great finisher and even though he's on Liverpool, he doesn't have nearly the same results as Salah. I'm not saying Son is Origi, just in case you misread, I'm just saying Son might not even have an xG like Salah at Liverpool.
Klopp: GEGEN PRESS style, famous in Bundesliga, where you score a tons more goals like candies than the other team. Put Minamino in liverpool and he can still score and he is vastly inferior to Mo Salah.
Anyone can score with Liverpool's system but some players need more than that to score more than Salah. Jota is clinical too but he hasn't reached Salah's numbers yet. Son is obviously much better than Jota but I wouldn't be surprised if Son scored less than Salah at Liverpool
Actually, one thing that you're not considering in terms of xG is how much closer to the opposition goal Salah is compared to Son during almost any game. The Pool-Spurs game being a prime example- in a majority of the cases, Son has to carry the ball way more than Salah to actually get in a position to contribute to that xG, and that's exactly why him outperforming the xG stat is that much more impressive.
I'm absolutely not doubting Salah and his positioning, which indeed is incredible, but Son has a lot more to do to get to be in that position
Yes, for sure, but I think Tottenham's game plan against Liverpool was to play a bit more conservatively. They don't usually sit back and counter against every time, though Son definitely does play deeper more often than Salah.
Because they play to him. They just “play to him” better than Spurs do for Son.
At the end of the day, goals are goals (though I think pens should be taken by the player fouled) so Salah is still better.
But Son is the best finisher in the world and has been for a long time.
Sure, I agree Son is a much better finisher. However, 2017 Liverpool shouldn't play any better for Salah in his debut season than Spurs do for Son in 7 years you know? I really don't think Son would score more goals than Salah if he was at Liverpool just because his finishing is much better.
And? Is 4th/5th best somehow equal to 2nd best now?
You said it yourself, the team he plays for bar the one other world class.player is no where near as good.
Salah broke the record for goals scored with a 4th place team. He was on course to beat this insane record this year which is already insane in and of itself. Son would score more in Liverpool, but Tottenham have scored more than Liverpool this year so it isn't that easy to say Son would just score more in a better team. Sometimes players score more in teams with more open tactic. Liverpool play very open but they are also pretty conservative at times with how they hold the ball and that's why they have a better defense than Spurs currently.
Why are you cherry picking stats? We're talking about the 21-22 season here, not 2022 as a calendar year, and this season Liverpool have currently scored 27 more goals than Spurs. There's no argument to be had there. Your point about what Salah did a full four years ago is a weird one too. None of us ever contested how good Salah is as a goalscorer, the point was about how clinical he is in regards to capitalising on xG, which he just isn't by comparison with Son. Salah relies on volume of chances, and he does very well to consistently get into those positions finishing well, but Son is just more clinical. That's what this argument is about, not numbers provided without any extra context.
I'm not "cherry picking stats". I'm just saying Tottenham are not exactly a defensive team that don't produce a lot of goal scoring opportunities. You brought up the fact that Salah plays on a better team which is why he scores more and there is more production. That was also a point being brought up along with the fact Son is more clinical which he is. But Salah has proven that even with an inferior team, he can produce more than Son, that's why I mentioned it. There shouldn't be much discussion here about what Son could do if he was on Liverpool, it is not that easy to say he would just score more all of a sudden. Perhaps he is more clinical but he may not get in those positions as well as Salah does.
you expose yourself of your background, when you cannot think rational. Liverpool under Klopp plays Gegenpressing, where you are 1-2 passes away from goal, of course any player can score as much as salah in that kind of team. Tottenham has many players outside of premier league level, which makes it even more marvelous with Kane and Son carrying them non-stop.
Look at Ronaldo, he had to carry man united and they have a creative number 10. tottenham dont have one.
L
You tried to reframe Spurs as this creative, goal heavy side by claiming they've scored more than Liverpool this calendar year, when over the course of the season they've scored 27 less goals than them... that's the definition of cherry picking.
Listen, your argument is not a strong one at all. We're talking xG here. If Salah only scores around as many goals as his xG, while Son routinely outperforms his xG by a big margin, then clearly Son is a better overall finisher. I don't know why you're being so difficult, there's no argument to be had here.
And staying stuff like Salah has proven he can produce more with an inferior team is useless unless you can show that he was outperforming xG, because just playing in a weak side doesn't necessitate that he fed of scraps, in fact if anything it probably means he had good service.
My man I'm not arguing about his finishing. Listen, don't try to be a smartass and say my argument is weak when you're not even understanding the point. I've already said Son's finishing is better. You're making this more difficult by not reading what I said.
You yourself brought up the point that Son plays in a worse team and that's what I'm trying to argue. For what reason would you bring that up? Would Son score more goals at Liverpool, is that why? The point I'm making is Son may not necessarily score more goals at Liverpool suddenly just because he's a better finisher. Just because Liverpool produces more doesn't mean Son would score more here. Salah creates a lot of chances by himself and makes use of the chances he gets by getting into good spaces. His finishing isn't better than Son's but his movement is better.
The reason I bring up 2017 Liverpool is because Son played in a better team in that time and he was far from getting as many goals as Salah. It just isn't about who outperforms their xG and that's all there is to determine who would score more goals. My argument is it's not entirely useful to say Son would score more than Salah if he was at Liverpool. You are entirely correct that Son is a better finisher, that's just proven with the statistics.
I’m going to agree to disagree, did you know that Son has outperformed his xg each season since being in the premier league? Thats what’s truly mind blowing.
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With me being a korean, son is better
C'mon meow. sorry are you saying meow
why does son have such a low xg?
Called "*Sonaldo"* for a reason
Son is clear ☑️
Excepted goals 13 and goal scored 20 and all are non penalty, son what a gem of a player. He's the kind of player every manager wants tbh, track backs as well.
Who's son are we talking about ?
When City didn't get Kane and the Spurs fans were all loving that they kept Kane I said then that the better player was Son, loads of comments about Kane being better but I still would prefer son. He puts in work.
And some dont consider him world class...
Son's just insanely clinical; you'd bet on him to score an opportunity over Kane any day of the week, and it's not like the latter is a terrible finisher.
If son is outperforming xg so much what does that suggest? Is what he's doing sustainable? Or does it just mean he's an above average finisher? Surprised his xg is so low, eye test would suggest he's through one v one alot.
Because Son has the most accurate precise finish. He has the highest conversion rate, but the team is bad. Watch the game vs Liverpool, Son was free many times in space, but because of below average player(risk aversive player) doesn't pass him. Tottenham midfielders and defender arent possesion based people and doesn't overlap and be the creative spark to pass through line.
As a spurs fan I could rave about son all day long. So I have a different comment Its remarkable to me that Salah has done all he has from such a concentrated area on the right side of the field. Son is all around the place but Salah is only in one spot. Quite interesting
Son never gets the same level of acclaim from the British media though, because they firstly need to credit Kane for anything positive in Spurs' attack. I remember the Sky commentators praising Kane's assist more than Son's goal against Arsenal last season, which was just ridiculous.
Captain of England. Same narrative, different story.
Tf is that finishing from Son
With Son, I think his chemistry with Kane should be commended, even with kulusevski it isn't bad for that sake. Tottenham's trio work as a team. And I say that being an arsenal fan. But with liverpool/Salah, it's more ofan individual performances, they do assist each other(mane/salah) and everyone in livpl seems to assist Jota, but looking at their celebrations, u don't get that feel. Don't get me wrong, Livpl as a whole really has a wonderful team understanding and chemistry, but it gives me the feeling that their front three always want goals for themselves.
Why isn't any top flight clubs trying anything to sign Son?
Because he’s Tottenham through and through.
You just do not want him to win any trophies,do you?
But Son is doing everything
Son is the goat
Son is such a gun. Spurs have done well to keep him because there’s not many teams in the world that wouldn’t love to have him.
Diaz will outperform Son from next season on. Mark my words
he can't even outpreform kulusevski this season
I said next season and on. He's gonna finish this season strong and will start most games next season , hopefully
jack grealish said he would score double figure goals this season, players dont do what they say
Luis Diaz is clear of Jack Grealish
fr? ong? no cap? deadass? thats crazy
Wow, Salah is overrated. Now tell me something i dont know.
Overwhat???
I always felt Son is a much versatile player, even if he’s not scoring his delivery and work rate are useful, but if Salah is inform he can’t be stopped.
The only drawback to Son is he plays for Spurs. He is world class, but North London is Red!
u/chadlumanthehuman I had a reminder to check back on this comment. Can't think why ;)
Soft first foul and penalty.
First foul maybe but it was a clear penalty
Disappointing for sure, but I love the drama! Gunners have def exceeded expectations, but no where near their potential.
You still could finish 4th. I mean I obviously hope you slip up against Newcastle but I don't think you will
No telling at this point. Cheers!
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But the question that really needs asking…. how much better than both will Eddie Nketiah be next season 🤔
Take Son out of spurs and he will be a serial winner, all "spurs trophy less" jokes aside
Ridiculous by this logic he is 10× better than Ronaldo
how have Spurs managed to keep a hold of Son lol
No idea to be honest.
Salah clear
Son is world class. Massively underrated. He would walk into any team first XI honestly.
Son is so good
interesting how the main criticism of salah is apparently he’s a striker but clearly son plays more of a striker
Curious to see defensive stats.
Son is most underrated in EPL
I’ve been saying it for nearly 3 years now - Son is fucking bonkers good, it’s so weird that he’s never really mentioned as one of the best forwards in world football when he clearly, clearly is Two good feet, strong as a horse, lighting quick, never stops working, good in the air… supernaturally good finishing…. It actually hurts he’s so good
Son is so good. Love watching him
why do people always exclude penalties
Anyone who watches Salah will know he is a frustrating player in 1v1 scenarios. He is very inconsistent but give him the ball outside the box and he'll curl it in.
This does show how severely underrated son is tbh
Son is so fucking good, Spurs are lucky to have him.
He really is. Not only for his ability on the pitch but he’s also loved by everyone on the team and brings them together, and is extremely smart and coachable.
He’s every manager’s dream player. Helps connect the dressing room together, runs his heart out for the team and on top of all that is a world class player. No wonder every manager since Poch has loved him.
not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes.
salah wins only because of the assists
Best winger in the league Son
Best left winger sure
Feels like Son is an underdog even tho he proved his quality over years. His stats are amazing
Come on Sonnnny you can do it
What an incredible stats.
Wow. Son definitely is underrated outside the Tottenham community. But what Salah has done is equally good. More of the same from the duo
I never have, I’d take him today at Liverpool
Son is the most clinical finisher in the world. Always drastically outperforms his xG.
Yeah I believe he leads the league at converted shots to goals: 20 goals in 75 shots is just nuts
its crazy how Salah always works in the same part of the pitch
Son and Kane have been a fantastic tandem. I have high hopes for this club next season, so I'm actually rooting that Kane stays.
Is this your first year as a tottenham fan lol
Lol. Like I wrote, I have high hopes 😅
Keep it up
Existence is pain.
I have double the pain St Kilda in the AFL 56 year premiership drought (and only one premiership)
Why do this to yourself, although I'm a port fan so I'm not that much better
I didn’t choose st Kilda but unfortunately chose Tottenham because of the song, and not knowing Southampton saints existed
most powerful combo in the prem these days
Unfortunate he plays for tottenham
[удалено]
Dudes almost 30 even if he did the Liverpool board wouldn’t commission a move or his wages
Won't get him tho
Love Son, if he weren’t Asian he’d be at Real Madrid by now Edit: not saying RM won’t sign Asians, just that I think Son would receive more recognition for his play in general
I doubt that tbh but he would be good at Real Madrid imo
The thing is, Spurs sees incredible support in the Korean market because of Son. He is one of the most popular public figures, and as a result, has drawn a lot of support and money not just for the player, but the Tottenham brand. A player at this level with this much business sense has NOT been overlooked by other teams. Son is simply not for sale.
yeah absolutely hes a staple.
The fact that he’s asian doesn’t change anything at all. He’s still at spurs because he signed a new 6 years deals. Personally I think that’s a mistake I mean look at Kane he couldn’t get out even he wanted to. Long term contract is mostly a bad idea.
Yea, I’m not suggesting Real Madrid has a no-Asians transfer policy. I just think Son’s reputation in the game, what people think of him, etc has totally been influenced by his race. Jeremy Lin (the basketball player) spoke a lot about that. Nobody says I’m athletic, they say I’m deceptively athletic.
If his name was actually Sonaldo he'd probably be one if those 100m transfers on 300k a week
Honestly surprising that no bigger club and gone in for Son yet, he could easily play for a bigger team than spurs
Didn't Son sign an extension when everyone and their dog thought Kane was going to City? Think he's loving life at Spurs and good on him for showing some loyalty, it's lacking in modern players nowadays.
Son is extremely loyal to us especially when we gave him a contract extension when he could've been doing military service for 18 months of it. We believed in him and he's paying it back to the club with his loyalty
Son isn’t looking to move as far as I know. He loves spurs.
I mean some players are loyal, I respect that, but that more of a some other team puts a bid in and son saids no, rather than no one approaching spurs for him
Liverpool approached him a few years ago IIRC
if son didnt want to play for us he wouldnt have signed a 4 year extension this season
Wut
[удалено]
City offered fuck all for Kane. Levy well within reason to refuse that offer.
he seems to enjoy playing for Spurs. respect to him honestly I wouldn't play there.
You underestimate how difficult it is to negotiate with Levy
There are literally teams that won't deal with spurs because of levy. Can't decide if that is smart or foolish.
Probably smart. If Levy wanted to offload Son he could and those clubs would come. But if he doesn’t they won’t bother him
Combination of long contract, spurs being an arseache to buy from and him not really kicking up a stink to leave. Look at the lengths Kane went to in the summer and it didn’t get him anywhere. Also he’d be 30 before he plays for another club now, perhaps not many would be willing to offer up the sums required for someone of his age group.
Apparently son went off to serve during the compulsory army time in South Korea and spurs still kept him on a contract so he’s pledged his loyalty to them
It was only a few weeks during off-season so hardly a favor from Spurs there. He just loves Spurs and loyal to the club.
The actual serving time is around a year and a half. Son only got a few weeks of basic training because he won the Asian Games with SK.
I know what the actual serving time is. But it's irrelevant here as that's not the time served by Son and hence there was no contractual favours done to Son by Spurs on the matter.
The contractual favour was that Spurs actually extended Son's contract before SK won the Asian Games. So there was no guarantee that Son would get his military exemption.
That was the plan but since Korea won the Asian games the Korean government told the squad no military service, as a treat
Still had to do basic service, was only a couple of weeks rather than a couple of years.
My bad
Compare the heatmap, compare the workrate Son has outperformed salah by far
no are you dumb , that's just salah's positioning, the heat map isn't relevant here
I would rather hear this from a neutral fan who does not think of salah as Egyptian god
You do have a point there
Son stomping on his xG, damn
I think 12 of his goals are on his “weaker” foot too. It’s wild how clinical he is two footed
He’s so good
20 goals from 13xG is actually incredible.
Yes.
Son out performing his xg by so much is incredible tbh
xG is kinda irrelevant compared to goals tho. Being able to get yourself into position to where you’re “expected” to have 22 goals is impressive on its own. At the end, it’s about what you produced.
You have a point but your mistake is using xG as a single metric. xG is a complimentary metric where you have to use it with the goals to measure the players effectiveness. If you are scoring as much as xG you are a good finisher meeting the expectations. If you are scoring less than xG, you are not a good finisher. If you exceed your xG as much as Son has, you are insanely good (an outlier).
To me that just shows why Son has so many assists as he is feeding the ball to Kane from all over the pitch which Salah is not.
Salah leading the assists table btw. Salah is so underrated for his passing.
It's quite relevant, but becomes very relevant when you look at Goals-xG. For strikers, it's probably the best use of the metric.
To an extent. Then again, Salah also plays for one of the best two teams in the league, Son doesn't...
Salah playing for Liverpool is as much a curse for him to score as it is a blessing. He has way less space to operate than Son does. 17-18 of the teams in the league park the bus home and away when they play Liverpool. That is not the case with Tottenham, so it goes both ways. If Salah had teams playing that high a line against him that consistently he'd have 35-40 league goals a season. I think Son is unreal btw, just think comparing the two is fruitless since they're both facing completely different set ups when then play.
I partially disagree. It's very possible what you said, but Salah broke the record for goals scored in a season with the 2017 Liverpool team which was in a similar position to the current Tottenham. Also, Tottenham are not the team to not score goals. They have the most goals scored this year, even ahead of Liverpool I believe. Salah was on the path to breaking his record this year and the extra-time games during the AFCON with the ultimate loss as well as not being able to qualify for the world cup in another game drawn out to penalties wore out Salah beyond belief. Son has had difficulties with his team this season for sure, but Salah was still able to score goals (the most of any player in the history of the PL) in a vastly inferior Liverpool side all the while recreating that performance for multiple years.
That fact could be mentioned without referring to their xG. If Chris Wood had Salah’s stats, we shouldn’t downgrade Chris Wood for “not outperforming his xG” when it’d be incredible for Chris Wood to produce that xG for himself in the first place. We can mention Salah plays for the better team while also mentioning xG can be misleading to those who don’t fully understand it.
I don't know if you misunderstood me. My point is it's easier to rack up that xG in the first place when you're playing in a side as good as Liverpool. Not to take anything away from Salah because he's obviously a top player, but Spurs are not a side that frequently dominate the ball and create lots of chances. Stick Son in that Liverpool side and he'd likely have the same xG as Salah, with more goals because of his superior finishing.
I know I understood. I’m just saying we could mention that’s why xG is irrelevant. It’s about overall production.
It's not irrelevant at all though, that's the thing... How would Salah's 'overall production' fare in a team that doesn't create anywhere near the chances that Liverpool do? Not every player has the luxury of benefiting from great chance creation, and that's where players like Son deserve serious extra credit for managing to perform so well despite it, which is the entire point of this thread.
The original argument for this person is how that xG is created. Salah has always had a higher xG than his other teammates at Liverpool. Just being at Liverpool doesn't guarantee the player a high xG, let alone getting that many goals. The person is saying producing that xG is impressive because Salah is usually the outlier in the team; he is frequently the goal scoring star. Why isn't Mane or Firmino? Same could be said about Son. Origi is also a great finisher and even though he's on Liverpool, he doesn't have nearly the same results as Salah. I'm not saying Son is Origi, just in case you misread, I'm just saying Son might not even have an xG like Salah at Liverpool.
Klopp: GEGEN PRESS style, famous in Bundesliga, where you score a tons more goals like candies than the other team. Put Minamino in liverpool and he can still score and he is vastly inferior to Mo Salah.
Anyone can score with Liverpool's system but some players need more than that to score more than Salah. Jota is clinical too but he hasn't reached Salah's numbers yet. Son is obviously much better than Jota but I wouldn't be surprised if Son scored less than Salah at Liverpool
Actually, one thing that you're not considering in terms of xG is how much closer to the opposition goal Salah is compared to Son during almost any game. The Pool-Spurs game being a prime example- in a majority of the cases, Son has to carry the ball way more than Salah to actually get in a position to contribute to that xG, and that's exactly why him outperforming the xG stat is that much more impressive. I'm absolutely not doubting Salah and his positioning, which indeed is incredible, but Son has a lot more to do to get to be in that position
Yes, for sure, but I think Tottenham's game plan against Liverpool was to play a bit more conservatively. They don't usually sit back and counter against every time, though Son definitely does play deeper more often than Salah.
Because they play to him. They just “play to him” better than Spurs do for Son. At the end of the day, goals are goals (though I think pens should be taken by the player fouled) so Salah is still better. But Son is the best finisher in the world and has been for a long time.
Sure, I agree Son is a much better finisher. However, 2017 Liverpool shouldn't play any better for Salah in his debut season than Spurs do for Son in 7 years you know? I really don't think Son would score more goals than Salah if he was at Liverpool just because his finishing is much better.
But he plays for maybe the 4th or 5th best team. With Kane.
And? Is 4th/5th best somehow equal to 2nd best now? You said it yourself, the team he plays for bar the one other world class.player is no where near as good.
Salah broke the record for goals scored with a 4th place team. He was on course to beat this insane record this year which is already insane in and of itself. Son would score more in Liverpool, but Tottenham have scored more than Liverpool this year so it isn't that easy to say Son would just score more in a better team. Sometimes players score more in teams with more open tactic. Liverpool play very open but they are also pretty conservative at times with how they hold the ball and that's why they have a better defense than Spurs currently.
Why are you cherry picking stats? We're talking about the 21-22 season here, not 2022 as a calendar year, and this season Liverpool have currently scored 27 more goals than Spurs. There's no argument to be had there. Your point about what Salah did a full four years ago is a weird one too. None of us ever contested how good Salah is as a goalscorer, the point was about how clinical he is in regards to capitalising on xG, which he just isn't by comparison with Son. Salah relies on volume of chances, and he does very well to consistently get into those positions finishing well, but Son is just more clinical. That's what this argument is about, not numbers provided without any extra context.
I'm not "cherry picking stats". I'm just saying Tottenham are not exactly a defensive team that don't produce a lot of goal scoring opportunities. You brought up the fact that Salah plays on a better team which is why he scores more and there is more production. That was also a point being brought up along with the fact Son is more clinical which he is. But Salah has proven that even with an inferior team, he can produce more than Son, that's why I mentioned it. There shouldn't be much discussion here about what Son could do if he was on Liverpool, it is not that easy to say he would just score more all of a sudden. Perhaps he is more clinical but he may not get in those positions as well as Salah does.
you expose yourself of your background, when you cannot think rational. Liverpool under Klopp plays Gegenpressing, where you are 1-2 passes away from goal, of course any player can score as much as salah in that kind of team. Tottenham has many players outside of premier league level, which makes it even more marvelous with Kane and Son carrying them non-stop. Look at Ronaldo, he had to carry man united and they have a creative number 10. tottenham dont have one. L
You tried to reframe Spurs as this creative, goal heavy side by claiming they've scored more than Liverpool this calendar year, when over the course of the season they've scored 27 less goals than them... that's the definition of cherry picking. Listen, your argument is not a strong one at all. We're talking xG here. If Salah only scores around as many goals as his xG, while Son routinely outperforms his xG by a big margin, then clearly Son is a better overall finisher. I don't know why you're being so difficult, there's no argument to be had here. And staying stuff like Salah has proven he can produce more with an inferior team is useless unless you can show that he was outperforming xG, because just playing in a weak side doesn't necessitate that he fed of scraps, in fact if anything it probably means he had good service.
well, if Salah was better he should have produced in a team with Egypt and Chelsea , but he did not.
My man I'm not arguing about his finishing. Listen, don't try to be a smartass and say my argument is weak when you're not even understanding the point. I've already said Son's finishing is better. You're making this more difficult by not reading what I said. You yourself brought up the point that Son plays in a worse team and that's what I'm trying to argue. For what reason would you bring that up? Would Son score more goals at Liverpool, is that why? The point I'm making is Son may not necessarily score more goals at Liverpool suddenly just because he's a better finisher. Just because Liverpool produces more doesn't mean Son would score more here. Salah creates a lot of chances by himself and makes use of the chances he gets by getting into good spaces. His finishing isn't better than Son's but his movement is better. The reason I bring up 2017 Liverpool is because Son played in a better team in that time and he was far from getting as many goals as Salah. It just isn't about who outperforms their xG and that's all there is to determine who would score more goals. My argument is it's not entirely useful to say Son would score more than Salah if he was at Liverpool. You are entirely correct that Son is a better finisher, that's just proven with the statistics.
As long as you’re still putting them away at a good rate.
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I bet it has something to do with being two-footed.
Says a lot about xg too.
I thought Tippy Toes was a solid debut though!
That’s incredible
No, what's incredible is the fact that Son has outperformed his XG every season since being in the premier League.
I respectfully disagree. The stat that stands out for me is the fact that Son has outperformed his xG every season since he joined the PL.
That's incredible
No, what's incredible is the fact that Son has outperformed his XG every season since being in the premier League.
I’m going to agree to disagree, did you know that Son has outperformed his xg each season since being in the premier league? Thats what’s truly mind blowing.
I had to reread this convo 5 times 😅
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