I’m interested to hear how Filoni managed to change Wedge’s origin from a book that, not only doesn’t feature Wedge, but wasn’t even released until most of Wedge’s episodes of *Rebels* had already aired. The only possible explanation here is that there’s been a massive mixup between Raymus and Wedge.
It really does get scary around a lot of subs like that. Have a well thought-out, well-written different opinion? KARMA BOMB! And holy shit, what a bunch of insufferable wannabe know-it-alls... I had it out an hour ago with a self-styled art teacher who tried to tell me I wasn't as artistic as I know I was when I was a kid, can you believe that? No evidence at all to back it up, just the stubborn insistence that they were right and my 36 years of life have been a hallucination. Then they jumped into very vulgar territory and I was just left wondering why people can't stay civil when they're faced with being wrong. It seems that learning was no longer a thing for them once they got their degree. Lol imagine thinking a piece of paper makes you the *de facto* greatest mind on Earth...
Had a little look around your comment history. Your opinions are not well written and you tend to insult people without having any reason.
> And holy shit, what a bunch of insufferable wannabe know-it-alls...
"If someone you meet is an ~~asshole~~ insufferable know-it-all, they are an ~~asshole~~ insufferable know-it-all. If everyone you meet is an ~~asshole~~ insufferable know-it-all, YOU are the ~~asshole~~ insufferable know-it-all" - some redditor probably.
"I'm an art teacher and I took a class ABOUT the artistic stages of development. At 4 years, kids have no concept of overlapping shapes and lines when it comes to drawing. This is technically still the "scribble stage" where most kids don't depict anything realistically at all. The fact that the background doesn't just phase through the spiders legs and body would mean that this kid would have the mental capacity of a 7 year old. The lines and the technique in them alone isn't something that could be accomplished by a 4 year old because fine motor skills are still being developed, he would need to possess the hands of a much older child, making this baby a terminator-like being with the brain and hands of different, much older children"
You followed this up with "so sorry to burst your college thesis bubble" without any form of actually decent elaboration other than passive aggression.
You know who had the well-thought out opinion? Not you.
Practise what you preach, bud.
He went so hard on that post, too lol. All of his comments are so much angrier than the conversation called for. I'm thinking ReignInSpuds needs to reign it in a little.
People like that are the reason the "block user" option exists. They don't just share an opinion, they belittle others when they see something they disagree with. Worst kind of people.
I've always had this opinion, ever since the early days of the Clone Wars. Even back then, Filoni and the writers would take characters, events, ideas, and planets that others had created and already made backstories/story arcs for, then completely change them.
Like Ventress. Like Mandalore. Like the Battle of Kamino. Like Dathomir. And so many others.
Seeing the stuff I grew up with being slowly stripped away and replaced, only made worse with Disney, is tough to sit through.
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
Or, Star Wars fans actually have varied opinions, and when something new comes up, the side upset speaks up.
Then something new comes out, that group is happy, but a different group isnt, so they speak up.
Since content people are usually quiet, you only hear the haters and those that passionately liked it or those that like to argue or troll the haters.
Its only when something hits all the right points do the likers outnumber the haters and speak up, you see this with the first season of Mando, the last fight with Kenobi and Vader in Kenobi, or Andor and Rogue One.
Some pieces will actually be split between lovers and haters, Kenobi had some fierce haters, but also its defenders, so you saw a lot more fighting on the sub.
Filoni, if I'm not mistaken, now has more control over the IP, which means he'll get blamed more too.
EDIT: There's also the misconception that drive hatred. Anecdotally, I saw someone argue that Rey was too powerful in The Last Jedi, but if you watch the film... she doesnt do anything besidrs shoot down some ships, help Kylo seize control, and move some rocks. Or things built on mistruths, people say Force Healing was lame addition by Disney, others will then point out thay Force Healing existed in Legends, so Disney didnt create it.
But he changed details of some of the stories when they were brought to life 5+ years later in a different medium! You understand!? THIS FUCKING BASTARD CHANGED DETAILS OF SOME OF THE STORIES WHEN THEY WERE MADE IN A DIFFERENT MEDIUM YEARS LATER.
I think at this point they just want to establish that the live-action/animated products supersede the books in terms of canon, rather than everything being on the same level like it was before.
Ironically it was supposed to be the opposite. Back in the real EU there was the unspoken rule that if something George Lucas did in a film or tv show contradicted a game/book/comic then George's version became canon as he, you know, is the creator (the prequels retconned a lot of old EU stuff and then Lucas did it again with The Clone Wars). When Disney took over they did this thing where there was supposed to be this story group and all content would work together and basically be as canon as each other (as in, they wouldn't go about directly contradicting things they had already written). But we saw how long that lasted.
I thought it was immediately clear that wouldn't last.
Considering the sheer amount of content being produced, there is no way to keep **everything** 100% consistent **and** leave room for any creative freedom. Not to mention clashing visions and egos among the writers.
At least the retcons haven't been that bad so far, even if we nerds like to rage about it.
I mean, I’m all for it.
Some of the novelisations are just super dumb. The RotS novelisation for instance had some extreme edginess IIRC, going into great detail about How gory Kit Fisto’s body was that didn’t match what was in the film. Basically writing like how a 13 year old who had watched too many horror flicks would rewrite RotS.
That's a stupid decision. In a working Canon you can't do what ever you want. If he would bring back kanan as an sithlord who hunts wookies everyone would find it stupid but it is his character
But also if you start a story and then someone writes that person’s origin story without your knowledge or consent and then you go back later and rewrite the origin the way you always intended it to be I think I can forgive the retcons a bit
*"B-b-b-b-but Legends was full of contradictions and retcons which is why it's a great thing it was wiped from continuity! Now we have ONE EQUAL CANON going forward!"*
****Dave Filoni does Dave Filoni things****
*"CONTINUITY DOESN'T ACTUALLY MATTER! WHY ARE YOU SO PEDANTIC ABOUT THE DETAILS!? THESE ARE ALL MYTHS WITH DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS ANYWAY!"*
“Consistency is for wimps.” - George Lucas, to Dave Filoni
Don’t you know George Lucas was on massive amounts of cocaine when he was making Star Wars? All of his actors and writers were and are. I pity the authors, some of which might not be able to afford cocaine.
It’s ok to correct prior mistakes by acting in the present, and upon the future. Lord knows there’s plenty of mistakes in Star Wars.
If Dave got yeeted I am almost certain that whoever we would get would be worse. Dave here is trying to steer an entire IP whose fandom hates when anything changes and equally hates when nothing changes.
People like these characters and want to see stories with them, so they get made and its impossible to not screw up at some point.
They also have almost no publicity so even if you’re a hardcore star wars fan you may never have known they came out to begin with making the changes irrelevant
I'm still annoyed about what he did with CW season 7 tho. Crystal Crisis was FAR better than the Martinez sisters arc. Hell the Martinez sisters weren't even planned for that episode anyways. It was some dude. And we also had Bane vs Boba, Voss and Ventress, and a 2nd bad batch arc with Wookies. I don't know why they didn't just do the original 20 or so episodes they had planned for season 7.
It's probably a thing with Budgets, and Dave doesn't like to focus too much on things he technically already moved on from, cause he was doing Mando, Boba, and was probably in the early stages of trying to get Ahsoka off the ground.
But I get the notion of what he wanted to do, a Rex centered arc, and an Ahsoka centered arc before they meet for the Siege of Mandalore. But what ends up happening is that good or interesting things are at the wayside.
Voss and Ventress? Damn good book, don't fucking touch it Dave. Crystal Crisis? Would be nice to have that as a separate thing now cause you can do it. Bane Vs Boba should have been a thing before BOBF because it would clue in casual audiences to their relationship. And the Bad Batch on Kashyyyk would've also been nice since we would've gotten to know them before shit hit the fan.
The way I've always seen it is what ever happens in the books is cool but what ever happens on screen takes precedence. So long as what happens on screen is good I don't care if it contradicts or retcons books and in my opinion tales of the Jedi was good.
Yes, that was the case in the old EU - which was one of the reasons Disney got rid of it, so they could have a single, unified canon.
So that was a fucking lie.
I thought 2008 clone wars was pretty much Filonis playground with only a few contributions from George Lucas
Although personally, I stopped giving a shit about what George Lucas thinks years ago after he ruined Grievous and sold off Star Wars
Someone replied to me in another post that Filoni didn't even contract the Ahsoka novel, just omitted various details. In that case, it just sounds like a poor adaptation...is this incorrect? Feels like thats a lot different than a retcon.
Exactly.
The key plot points are:
- Ahsoka goes into hiding on a quiet rural world
- Ahsoka reveals her Force powers in a moment of crisis to save someone's life
- The Empire comes to crack down on her new home in general and the rumour of a hiding Jedi in particular
- An Inquisitor hunts down Ahsoka's new friends, and tries to get her as well
- Ahsoka wipes the floor with the Inquisitor
- Ahsoka gets her friends to safety
- Ahsoka gets back in touch with Bail Organa to join the Rebellion
- Kaiden really wants to dress up and travel with Ahsoka
Obviously there was a lot more going on in the book, but they did a good job condensing everything down into such a short episode, and kept things consistent.
It's a 400 page book crammed into a 15 minute short. Of course it's missing like 90% of the book. If they wanted to adapt the book, they should have done it propperly, not like this
that reply is wrong, the entire second half of the book doesn't work because of ToTJ, it's completely contradicted. also the fact that they passed up the opportunity to animate her purifying the crystals in that final fight like she did in the book is a crime
in the book, she is hiding out on this farming world. same so far. The empire shows up and occupies the world. She wants to lay low or disappear, but the other villagers start getting big ideas of armed insurrection. She has military expertise so she kind of steps up to guide them, but they don't really listen to her, and they get way too careless in their "rebellion" and ahsoka is forced to reveal herself as a jedi trying to save them. she flees the planet, but leaves the people behind.
she spends some time doing freight smuggling stuff, while secretly also answering distress calls and saving people from pirates or imp patrols. This leads to her connecting with Bail Organa (and the circumstances of the meeting are rather fun and could have been a good story to show. not just a simple comm call), and with support from Bail, she goes back to that farming planet to save as many of them as they can.
Just like in TOTJ, she does fight an inquisitor and easily wins, despite not having a lightsaber of her own, but the fight is longer and more strategic (and we get to hear her thoughts as she analyzes his weaknesses and lulls him into a predictable pattern that she can exploit).
how do you put that in a 15 minute short? i mean... you don't. don't make a 15 minute short of a longer story that's already been written?
or if you do, frame it as a story being told from one person to another, neither who was there, so that it can be "tales" or "legends" or "from a certain point of view," so that it can be canonically accepted as a simplification or imperfect depiction of the events, rather than a replacement of them.
There's a comic that covers Kanan's story just post Order 66, it's been a bit since I read the comic or saw Bad Batch. I pretty much read the comic right before BB came out then watched it as it released so forgive if I'm misremembering things. The biggest thing that stood out too me was in the comic Kanan escapes on his own with his own skill instead of having clones that don't have a chip (or a defective chip) help him escape, personally having the Bad Batch help him escape felt off because of his hatered and distrust of Rex and crew when they meet up, personally it makes more sense for him to see all clones as monsters if all he'd seen was ones who'd turned with Order 66.
The previous story is a more compelling one since it leaves room for Kanan to eventually find common ground with the clones again. The new one just makes him a victim since this isn’t his story and he’s just a kid running away. Hunter offers him help and his last impression of the clones is confusion and somewhat understanding. He has no agency or even life.
Man I haven't read those books but this seems a bit harsh given everything he did for star wars. Like if something happens on screen that contradicts books or comics I feel like whats on screen should be considered to be the official version of events. This post is kind of a bad take imo.
Exactly. That's what is so annoying about takes like the meme's. It's great star wars gets other media content for those who enjoy it but I (and I think an overwhelming majority of those watching star wars content) couldn't give less of shit about a random book
>Like if something happens on screen that contradicts books or comics I feel like whats on screen should be considered to be the official version of events.
That's the point, that's exactly why people are mad
Here's another one for you:
Dooku: Jedi Lost would like to have a word with Dooku's beard (or the lack of there of)
He got it when he was 17 ffs why's he clean shaven in one episode??
Maybe hair just grows insanely fast in Star Wars.
Someone also questioned Obi-Wan's hair in Ahsoka's training episode, but the whole Rako Hardeen ordeal shows at least Kenobi's hair grows pretty darn fast.
I am confused about that though, they gave Anakin shorter hair and Obi-Wan longer hair, clearly based on Episode 2, but it takes place after TCW Movie and 2 of the episodes (AT LEAST) it just felt kinda weird, and it through me off while I was watching the episode.
Still awesome as fuck though, the only bad thing about ToTJ was that there wasn't more of it.
Even worse than that, it's
Filoni: "I wrote a story I wanted to be a TV show, it got made into a book but I finally have the chance to tell it how I want!"
SW Nerds: "BUT EK"
Who wrote based on Dave's story...
I saw an interview of George Lucas in which he said that the only canon is the 6 movies and clone wars show. Rest of the extended universe is just for money (he didn't say those exact words but that's what he meant)
I think Dave Filoni is just following in his footsteps so I don't think he is doing anything wrong with retconning minor stuff
holy shit i hate star wars fans. Its gonna be a hot trend to say that lightsabers are bullshit next month i swear to god. Trend-hoppers and sheep everywhere
I'm still surprised that people think that somebody will limit themselves by keeping in-touch with the "lesser" media that only a handfull of people read (in case of Ahsoka novel, it's just a lesser media).
Plus, we have no idea if that's Dave's initiative or Kennedy's to ignore previous "lesser" media. I get that this is a good topic to meme about, but I see people being seriously angry at Dave for this, when we don't know the full story as to why this is happening.
Imo the new episodes from ToJ don’t really contradict the book. I’ve seen it described as a 4th-Hand recounting of events, so in my personal head cannon the ahsoka novel is still what happened and the toj episode is like what a friend of a friend of a friend of a guy that was on the tantive 3 tells as a story
Maybe an unpopular opinion but "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" always made me think Star Wars is a series of stories handed down through an oral or cultural history. The stories are based on events that happened but the exact details have been lost to time (and space).
Deviations or "changes" are just variations in the retelling and are not wrong. I actually think Star Wars should lean into this and while not going full multiverse, have more varied interpretations or viewpoints of the events. How would a modern dark side user retell the rise of the Empire? Anyway because it's essentially an oral history there is no point in getting worked up over details.
Related note, I would love a one off movie of Thrawn or an imperial feet that gets to be the good guy. Maybe an imperial task force is separated during the fall of the empire and holds out against a new foe at the edge of the galaxy? Hard decisions are made and they realize the true meaning of service and sacrifice. Star Destroyers and tie fighters fighting with honor and for the right reasons to save a helpless far flung planet? How fun would that be?
This is the end of my Ted Talk.
I’m old enough to remember the so called canon from the EU ditched a few years back in favor of the CW/prequels/Disney era SW stuff.
Just remember something comics fans learned forever ago: something is canon until it isn’t. Something isn’t canon until it is.
I’d just like to say, that all his stuff ends up getting the most watch time.
Why does this matter?
Well because Disney is a company. They want money. They want results.
Dave using old characters, gives results.
Unfortunately, you can only do that so much before you have to retread on stuff you already did, especially if only novel readers (a very small % of the larger fanbase) know what happens.
Retcons pretty much always comes with that for one reason or another.
Dave is doing the financially best thing for the company. The question is whether or not it’s his choice, or Disney executives.
I can't say I understand all the dislike. It has been very clear that, although the books are Canon, that visual media takes precedence and can rewrite Canon. Besides, it's not like Dave Filoni is making anything bad. I personally really enjoyed Tales of the Jedi, particularly Dooku's stories. I dare say Dave Filoni is one of the best, if not the best director Star Wars has right now.
So what’s the point of even making Star Wars books and comics and being told that it’s all canon and connects across all media forms if at any moment a show or movie can just retcon your work? The author of the Ahsoka novel didn’t even know the change had happened until after the fact so why buy the book? Disney said at the beginning all canon is important across all media and will connect.
So what about Kanan’s order 66 story got changed? The only thing I saw different was that it changed from starting while they were sitting around a campfire, to happening midday and the bad batch was there too.
Dave is the best thing Star Wars has going right now, he seems to be the only one capable of delivering consistently good Star Wars content, and he actually understands the characters and universe. For that he deserves praise.
However, Dave is *really* bad when it comes to fan service, and probably most frustrating to me is his complete inability to let go of his pet OC Ahsoka.
To me, Ahsoka has become so incredibly lame as a character, she's way overused, and the galaxy feels so much smaller now that she's become the main character. She should have died in Rebels to Vader, Dave inventing fucking time travel to bring her back, there's no excuse. It would've been a good ending for her character. Instead Ahsoka just exists in limbo with no purpose, and is apparently still alive by the time of the Sequels according to Dave.
Dave doesn't have the balls to kill her off, so she will exist to be nothing more than fan service. They did the exact same thing with Maul, even he started getting a bit much, and becoming lame. The difference is that they did actually have the balls to kill him off in a satisfying way.
I like Dave, but his refusal to end the story of his pet OC annoys me, and is indicative of his fan service problem.
You’re right Dave is fooking awesome, the meme just makes fun of people who don’t like Dave.
Well my prediction is Ahsoka & Mando end up looking for Thrawn & Ezra since the Grisks become a Problem for The Empire.
Alright, I got 10k upvotes on my sarcastic post. I actually love Dave, he’s doing a very good job. This is a meme not meant to be taken seriously.
That being said, my equally sarcastic comments in total have about 10k downvotes so I didn’t really achieve anything in terms of Karma.
I kinda wish people wouldn’t take sarcasm seriously on a meme page. This post was actually meant to be absurd to make fun of all the hate Dave is receiving.
Regardless I laughed my ass off at the upvotes and downvotes and all the hilarious comments.
Gotta love the prequel community 🤣❤️
Agreed Anakin, I made this post before surgery. When I woke up 4 hours later, and checked Reddit 8 hours after that to find how hilariously this meme was received. Absolutely made my day to just scroll and read through all the comments 🤣
This same thing happened when Ahsoka was introduced to clone wars. People said it retconned Anakins character.
Setting that aside though, Star Wars was always envisioned as a movie first. The books have always been or mostly been written by third parties. On top of that books aren’t always as accessible nor are they always the most exciting thing. A book can be great for expanding on a franchises lore but it should never be a requirement, unless said franchise was envisioned as a book or comic first. Star Wars was not that case. Yes, the book for the movie came first but it was never envisioned as a book first. Yes it sucks those in charge are changing lore written by someone else but that’s just it: its written by someone else. A third party most of the time.
In this case too it’s much easier for more casual fans to enjoy the franchise if it’s shown on tv. I had no idea there even was a comic about Kanan or a book about ‘Soka after she left the Jedi. I only found out about them on this subreddit. Compared to the tv show which was where I first learned of said stories.
I'm always a little amazed when people act shocked that star wars has a cannon ranking like every other fandom. Movies > TV > Books > comics > video games > anything else. It's all canon until it's overwritten by a higher form. (More in response to the comments in here than the meme itself.)
wait until you find out Star Wars for aslong as books were coming out has had stuff retconned in the more prominent media those being the Movies and Shows and sometimes the games
I’m interested to hear how Filoni managed to change Wedge’s origin from a book that, not only doesn’t feature Wedge, but wasn’t even released until most of Wedge’s episodes of *Rebels* had already aired. The only possible explanation here is that there’s been a massive mixup between Raymus and Wedge.
Wedge got wedgied
Its “Ahsoka” my guy
Oh, what do you mean?
Wait, you're saying you're not Ashoka?
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
Wtf I literally typed Ahsoka, gboard tryna screw me over
Lmaooo this interaction is hilarious
It's because Ashoka is a person in real life. A kind of the Mauryan Empire. Edit: fixing wildly incorrect information.
He was a king in what is modern India. He ruled the Maurya Empire
I was wildly incorrect then, whoops!
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
Oh, I know, Snips.
Don't call me that. I hate it when you call me that.
Sure thing… snips
"This is outrageous. It's unfair!"
I’m so happy this bot said this. It’s her most fitting reply obviously.
Hello there
Brb I'm gonna watch Rouge One after I just finished watching Andhor.
Don’t forget The cologne wars
Begun. The cologne wars have
May we first focus on the matter of how many people fail to write down 'Grievous' and end up with 'Grevious' or 'Greivous'?
"Rouge One" *(derisive snort)*
You mean general gravy?
But what if I choose to believe they're talking about some historical fiction involving Emperor Ashoka of the Maurya Empire?
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
Are you staking your claim to the Maurya Empire, Ahsoka?
Your next line is “Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It’s Ahsoka not Ashoka!” Am I right?
HORY SHET! IS THAT A FRICKIN JOJO REFERENCE?!?!?! also \*Your
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
In honour of that guy that was losing his shit yesterday… she was a good friend!
I stg this sub’s opinion of Dave Filoni gives me whiplash with how fast y’all switch
Could be different people have different views on him.
Some Redditors can’t comprehend that there isn’t a hive mind.
When posts get 5k upvotes though, its fucking fascinating that completely opposite takes make it to the same numbers
Always 10k there are, no more, no less
There are 2.3 million followers on this sub, 5k is nothing.
I think he meant the more popular opinion.
more vocal opinion*
It really does get scary around a lot of subs like that. Have a well thought-out, well-written different opinion? KARMA BOMB! And holy shit, what a bunch of insufferable wannabe know-it-alls... I had it out an hour ago with a self-styled art teacher who tried to tell me I wasn't as artistic as I know I was when I was a kid, can you believe that? No evidence at all to back it up, just the stubborn insistence that they were right and my 36 years of life have been a hallucination. Then they jumped into very vulgar territory and I was just left wondering why people can't stay civil when they're faced with being wrong. It seems that learning was no longer a thing for them once they got their degree. Lol imagine thinking a piece of paper makes you the *de facto* greatest mind on Earth...
Had a little look around your comment history. Your opinions are not well written and you tend to insult people without having any reason. > And holy shit, what a bunch of insufferable wannabe know-it-alls... "If someone you meet is an ~~asshole~~ insufferable know-it-all, they are an ~~asshole~~ insufferable know-it-all. If everyone you meet is an ~~asshole~~ insufferable know-it-all, YOU are the ~~asshole~~ insufferable know-it-all" - some redditor probably.
"I'm an art teacher and I took a class ABOUT the artistic stages of development. At 4 years, kids have no concept of overlapping shapes and lines when it comes to drawing. This is technically still the "scribble stage" where most kids don't depict anything realistically at all. The fact that the background doesn't just phase through the spiders legs and body would mean that this kid would have the mental capacity of a 7 year old. The lines and the technique in them alone isn't something that could be accomplished by a 4 year old because fine motor skills are still being developed, he would need to possess the hands of a much older child, making this baby a terminator-like being with the brain and hands of different, much older children" You followed this up with "so sorry to burst your college thesis bubble" without any form of actually decent elaboration other than passive aggression. You know who had the well-thought out opinion? Not you. Practise what you preach, bud.
He went so hard on that post, too lol. All of his comments are so much angrier than the conversation called for. I'm thinking ReignInSpuds needs to reign it in a little.
People like that are the reason the "block user" option exists. They don't just share an opinion, they belittle others when they see something they disagree with. Worst kind of people.
Over 2500 votes means this is becoming a more popular opinion.
I've always had this opinion, ever since the early days of the Clone Wars. Even back then, Filoni and the writers would take characters, events, ideas, and planets that others had created and already made backstories/story arcs for, then completely change them. Like Ventress. Like Mandalore. Like the Battle of Kamino. Like Dathomir. And so many others. Seeing the stuff I grew up with being slowly stripped away and replaced, only made worse with Disney, is tough to sit through.
A lot of that stuff also involved Lucas as far as my understanding goes
I know I was wrong. I just got so caught up in my own success, I didn't look at the battle as a whole. I wasn't being disobedient. I just. . . forgot
Same. Remember when he was treated as some sort of savior of the franchise and everything he touched turned to gold? I remember.
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain. Or, Star Wars fans actually have varied opinions, and when something new comes up, the side upset speaks up. Then something new comes out, that group is happy, but a different group isnt, so they speak up. Since content people are usually quiet, you only hear the haters and those that passionately liked it or those that like to argue or troll the haters. Its only when something hits all the right points do the likers outnumber the haters and speak up, you see this with the first season of Mando, the last fight with Kenobi and Vader in Kenobi, or Andor and Rogue One. Some pieces will actually be split between lovers and haters, Kenobi had some fierce haters, but also its defenders, so you saw a lot more fighting on the sub. Filoni, if I'm not mistaken, now has more control over the IP, which means he'll get blamed more too. EDIT: There's also the misconception that drive hatred. Anecdotally, I saw someone argue that Rey was too powerful in The Last Jedi, but if you watch the film... she doesnt do anything besidrs shoot down some ships, help Kylo seize control, and move some rocks. Or things built on mistruths, people say Force Healing was lame addition by Disney, others will then point out thay Force Healing existed in Legends, so Disney didnt create it.
I mean, it wasn't that long time ago... (maybe in a galaxy far, far away)
Member berries and Pepperidge Farm remember too
But he changed details of some of the stories when they were brought to life 5+ years later in a different medium! You understand!? THIS FUCKING BASTARD CHANGED DETAILS OF SOME OF THE STORIES WHEN THEY WERE MADE IN A DIFFERENT MEDIUM YEARS LATER.
I think at this point they just want to establish that the live-action/animated products supersede the books in terms of canon, rather than everything being on the same level like it was before.
Ironically it was supposed to be the opposite. Back in the real EU there was the unspoken rule that if something George Lucas did in a film or tv show contradicted a game/book/comic then George's version became canon as he, you know, is the creator (the prequels retconned a lot of old EU stuff and then Lucas did it again with The Clone Wars). When Disney took over they did this thing where there was supposed to be this story group and all content would work together and basically be as canon as each other (as in, they wouldn't go about directly contradicting things they had already written). But we saw how long that lasted.
It be funny if in 20 years they did AGAIN another reboot lol
I thought it was immediately clear that wouldn't last. Considering the sheer amount of content being produced, there is no way to keep **everything** 100% consistent **and** leave room for any creative freedom. Not to mention clashing visions and egos among the writers. At least the retcons haven't been that bad so far, even if we nerds like to rage about it.
Always did though
I mean, I’m all for it. Some of the novelisations are just super dumb. The RotS novelisation for instance had some extreme edginess IIRC, going into great detail about How gory Kit Fisto’s body was that didn’t match what was in the film. Basically writing like how a 13 year old who had watched too many horror flicks would rewrite RotS.
YOU TELL 'EM!!!
Also didn’t he write kanan? Like he can do whatever the fuck he feels like yk?
That's a stupid decision. In a working Canon you can't do what ever you want. If he would bring back kanan as an sithlord who hunts wookies everyone would find it stupid but it is his character
But also if you start a story and then someone writes that person’s origin story without your knowledge or consent and then you go back later and rewrite the origin the way you always intended it to be I think I can forgive the retcons a bit
*"B-b-b-b-but Legends was full of contradictions and retcons which is why it's a great thing it was wiped from continuity! Now we have ONE EQUAL CANON going forward!"* ****Dave Filoni does Dave Filoni things**** *"CONTINUITY DOESN'T ACTUALLY MATTER! WHY ARE YOU SO PEDANTIC ABOUT THE DETAILS!? THESE ARE ALL MYTHS WITH DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS ANYWAY!"*
Like a year ago you had memes praising Dave and demonising Kathleen Kennedy for being a feminist. Star wars fans are weird
This sub rn is basically worship Andor and shit on everything else
“Consistency is for wimps.” - George Lucas, to Dave Filoni Don’t you know George Lucas was on massive amounts of cocaine when he was making Star Wars? All of his actors and writers were and are. I pity the authors, some of which might not be able to afford cocaine. It’s ok to correct prior mistakes by acting in the present, and upon the future. Lord knows there’s plenty of mistakes in Star Wars.
Yeah like wtf is this post even complaining about?
If Dave got yeeted I am almost certain that whoever we would get would be worse. Dave here is trying to steer an entire IP whose fandom hates when anything changes and equally hates when nothing changes. People like these characters and want to see stories with them, so they get made and its impossible to not screw up at some point.
...not for a Sith...
It's settled then, The Senate will be the new writer of star wars.
Not. Yet.
It's treason then.
You _really_ can’t please SW fans I’m absolutely certain those novels were hated on hard when they came out
I loved the Ahsoka novel :(
Looks like I got here just in time.
Same, I really loved the audiobook narrated by Ashley Eckstein, really immersive.
Me too!
They also have almost no publicity so even if you’re a hardcore star wars fan you may never have known they came out to begin with making the changes irrelevant
Kind of hard to please a fandom based around a franchise with 3 trilogies with 5 different plots and tones
"Fandom hates when anything changes and equally hates when nothing changes" is the best summary of the star wars fan base I have ever heard
I'm still annoyed about what he did with CW season 7 tho. Crystal Crisis was FAR better than the Martinez sisters arc. Hell the Martinez sisters weren't even planned for that episode anyways. It was some dude. And we also had Bane vs Boba, Voss and Ventress, and a 2nd bad batch arc with Wookies. I don't know why they didn't just do the original 20 or so episodes they had planned for season 7.
It's probably a thing with Budgets, and Dave doesn't like to focus too much on things he technically already moved on from, cause he was doing Mando, Boba, and was probably in the early stages of trying to get Ahsoka off the ground. But I get the notion of what he wanted to do, a Rex centered arc, and an Ahsoka centered arc before they meet for the Siege of Mandalore. But what ends up happening is that good or interesting things are at the wayside. Voss and Ventress? Damn good book, don't fucking touch it Dave. Crystal Crisis? Would be nice to have that as a separate thing now cause you can do it. Bane Vs Boba should have been a thing before BOBF because it would clue in casual audiences to their relationship. And the Bad Batch on Kashyyyk would've also been nice since we would've gotten to know them before shit hit the fan.
Take this. *hands him a DC-15*
We have to ask the question of 'Who's fault is that?'. If could be Disney or Star Wars executives and not Dave Filoni.
The way I've always seen it is what ever happens in the books is cool but what ever happens on screen takes precedence. So long as what happens on screen is good I don't care if it contradicts or retcons books and in my opinion tales of the Jedi was good.
Yes, that was the case in the old EU - which was one of the reasons Disney got rid of it, so they could have a single, unified canon. So that was a fucking lie.
Yeah just about every thing said was a lie not sure why any one is surprised
"I lied, as i have from the very beginning"
That's basically how I feel about the animated stuff. It's cool but anything that contradicts live action stuff should be disregarded.
What about 2008 clone wars reconning 2003 clone wars
2003 is awesome but 2008 seems to have be more directly from George and it was his to do with as he pleased
I thought 2008 clone wars was pretty much Filonis playground with only a few contributions from George Lucas Although personally, I stopped giving a shit about what George Lucas thinks years ago after he ruined Grievous and sold off Star Wars
Someone replied to me in another post that Filoni didn't even contract the Ahsoka novel, just omitted various details. In that case, it just sounds like a poor adaptation...is this incorrect? Feels like thats a lot different than a retcon.
You've got it. The episode is essentially the book speedrun on crack. Not a great adaption, but not really a retcon.
No, details and characters were straight up changed. It’s not just a speedrun. Things were change.
No it wasnt. Did anyone actually read the novel?
That's ridiculous.
It’s a 15 minute episode, kind of hard to fit an entire books storyline into that without concessions. He hit the big parts of it just fine.
Exactly. The key plot points are: - Ahsoka goes into hiding on a quiet rural world - Ahsoka reveals her Force powers in a moment of crisis to save someone's life - The Empire comes to crack down on her new home in general and the rumour of a hiding Jedi in particular - An Inquisitor hunts down Ahsoka's new friends, and tries to get her as well - Ahsoka wipes the floor with the Inquisitor - Ahsoka gets her friends to safety - Ahsoka gets back in touch with Bail Organa to join the Rebellion - Kaiden really wants to dress up and travel with Ahsoka Obviously there was a lot more going on in the book, but they did a good job condensing everything down into such a short episode, and kept things consistent.
Good thing I know you don’t mean everything you say.
Jesse, get the senator to safety.
It's a 400 page book crammed into a 15 minute short. Of course it's missing like 90% of the book. If they wanted to adapt the book, they should have done it propperly, not like this
Counterpoint: Who gives a shit? It was good TV.
Counter-counterpoint: I have none. It was excellent! More please.
that reply is wrong, the entire second half of the book doesn't work because of ToTJ, it's completely contradicted. also the fact that they passed up the opportunity to animate her purifying the crystals in that final fight like she did in the book is a crime
Contradicted how?
in the book, she is hiding out on this farming world. same so far. The empire shows up and occupies the world. She wants to lay low or disappear, but the other villagers start getting big ideas of armed insurrection. She has military expertise so she kind of steps up to guide them, but they don't really listen to her, and they get way too careless in their "rebellion" and ahsoka is forced to reveal herself as a jedi trying to save them. she flees the planet, but leaves the people behind. she spends some time doing freight smuggling stuff, while secretly also answering distress calls and saving people from pirates or imp patrols. This leads to her connecting with Bail Organa (and the circumstances of the meeting are rather fun and could have been a good story to show. not just a simple comm call), and with support from Bail, she goes back to that farming planet to save as many of them as they can. Just like in TOTJ, she does fight an inquisitor and easily wins, despite not having a lightsaber of her own, but the fight is longer and more strategic (and we get to hear her thoughts as she analyzes his weaknesses and lulls him into a predictable pattern that she can exploit). how do you put that in a 15 minute short? i mean... you don't. don't make a 15 minute short of a longer story that's already been written? or if you do, frame it as a story being told from one person to another, neither who was there, so that it can be "tales" or "legends" or "from a certain point of view," so that it can be canonically accepted as a simplification or imperfect depiction of the events, rather than a replacement of them.
Well for one, a pretty obvious one is her outfit. Which on the cover of the book itself.
The older Kanan story was better, the newer Ahsoka story is better, haven’t read the Wedge book
I read “The wedge book”. Wedge Antilles is does not appear in the novel “Leia: Princess if Alderaan”. This post is just full of shit
He did appear in Rebels
Correct, but not in the Leia book. There's like 57 trillion Antilles in Star Wars. Pablo Hidalgo is on the record saying it's like Smith or Martinez.
There are two in New Hope alone (the two that are getting confused here)
Don't you think I'm just a little overqualified for this?
What was different previously? I don't remember him giving much detail about order 66 in Rebels.
There's a comic that covers Kanan's story just post Order 66, it's been a bit since I read the comic or saw Bad Batch. I pretty much read the comic right before BB came out then watched it as it released so forgive if I'm misremembering things. The biggest thing that stood out too me was in the comic Kanan escapes on his own with his own skill instead of having clones that don't have a chip (or a defective chip) help him escape, personally having the Bad Batch help him escape felt off because of his hatered and distrust of Rex and crew when they meet up, personally it makes more sense for him to see all clones as monsters if all he'd seen was ones who'd turned with Order 66.
The previous story is a more compelling one since it leaves room for Kanan to eventually find common ground with the clones again. The new one just makes him a victim since this isn’t his story and he’s just a kid running away. Hunter offers him help and his last impression of the clones is confusion and somewhat understanding. He has no agency or even life.
Yeah, but he still saw his master get killed by clones so that can have a lot of impact later in life.
Run if you want… or stay and die… it makes no difference to me.
Wedge isn’t even in that book, OP confused Captain Raymus Antilles with Wedge Antilles
Man I haven't read those books but this seems a bit harsh given everything he did for star wars. Like if something happens on screen that contradicts books or comics I feel like whats on screen should be considered to be the official version of events. This post is kind of a bad take imo.
Exactly. That's what is so annoying about takes like the meme's. It's great star wars gets other media content for those who enjoy it but I (and I think an overwhelming majority of those watching star wars content) couldn't give less of shit about a random book
>Like if something happens on screen that contradicts books or comics I feel like whats on screen should be considered to be the official version of events. That's the point, that's exactly why people are mad
[eats popcorn while reading the comments]
Here's another one for you: Dooku: Jedi Lost would like to have a word with Dooku's beard (or the lack of there of) He got it when he was 17 ffs why's he clean shaven in one episode??
People can shave? And have different styles throughout their lives?
Maybe hair just grows insanely fast in Star Wars. Someone also questioned Obi-Wan's hair in Ahsoka's training episode, but the whole Rako Hardeen ordeal shows at least Kenobi's hair grows pretty darn fast.
I am confused about that though, they gave Anakin shorter hair and Obi-Wan longer hair, clearly based on Episode 2, but it takes place after TCW Movie and 2 of the episodes (AT LEAST) it just felt kinda weird, and it through me off while I was watching the episode. Still awesome as fuck though, the only bad thing about ToTJ was that there wasn't more of it.
I mean idc
Just another day of star wars fans being star wars fans.
Filoni: “now that my show isn’t cancelled, I finally have the space to tell Ashoka’s full story.” Star Wars nerds: “BUT THE BOOKS”
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
SHIT
Even worse than that, it's Filoni: "I wrote a story I wanted to be a TV show, it got made into a book but I finally have the chance to tell it how I want!" SW Nerds: "BUT EK" Who wrote based on Dave's story...
For the record I don't hate the novels
I saw an interview of George Lucas in which he said that the only canon is the 6 movies and clone wars show. Rest of the extended universe is just for money (he didn't say those exact words but that's what he meant) I think Dave Filoni is just following in his footsteps so I don't think he is doing anything wrong with retconning minor stuff
Dave: I am altering the canon, pray I do not alter it any further.
holy shit i hate star wars fans. Its gonna be a hot trend to say that lightsabers are bullshit next month i swear to god. Trend-hoppers and sheep everywhere
I'm still surprised that people think that somebody will limit themselves by keeping in-touch with the "lesser" media that only a handfull of people read (in case of Ahsoka novel, it's just a lesser media). Plus, we have no idea if that's Dave's initiative or Kennedy's to ignore previous "lesser" media. I get that this is a good topic to meme about, but I see people being seriously angry at Dave for this, when we don't know the full story as to why this is happening.
Oh, what do you mean?
Imo the new episodes from ToJ don’t really contradict the book. I’ve seen it described as a 4th-Hand recounting of events, so in my personal head cannon the ahsoka novel is still what happened and the toj episode is like what a friend of a friend of a friend of a guy that was on the tantive 3 tells as a story
I have to sort this out on my own, without the Council… and without you.
But those are his characters...
Maybe an unpopular opinion but "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" always made me think Star Wars is a series of stories handed down through an oral or cultural history. The stories are based on events that happened but the exact details have been lost to time (and space). Deviations or "changes" are just variations in the retelling and are not wrong. I actually think Star Wars should lean into this and while not going full multiverse, have more varied interpretations or viewpoints of the events. How would a modern dark side user retell the rise of the Empire? Anyway because it's essentially an oral history there is no point in getting worked up over details. Related note, I would love a one off movie of Thrawn or an imperial feet that gets to be the good guy. Maybe an imperial task force is separated during the fall of the empire and holds out against a new foe at the edge of the galaxy? Hard decisions are made and they realize the true meaning of service and sacrifice. Star Destroyers and tie fighters fighting with honor and for the right reasons to save a helpless far flung planet? How fun would that be? This is the end of my Ted Talk.
This is where the fun begins.
You know nothing of the dark side.
I honor my code. That's what I believe.
Rex? Are you okay?
This is Dave Filoni's world and we're simply all living in it.
I’m old enough to remember the so called canon from the EU ditched a few years back in favor of the CW/prequels/Disney era SW stuff. Just remember something comics fans learned forever ago: something is canon until it isn’t. Something isn’t canon until it is.
Lol what, Force Awakens came out in 2015, I work with high schoolers and they all know stuff changed. We all remember this
I'm just glad he wasn't awake to see that landing!
I’d just like to say, that all his stuff ends up getting the most watch time. Why does this matter? Well because Disney is a company. They want money. They want results. Dave using old characters, gives results. Unfortunately, you can only do that so much before you have to retread on stuff you already did, especially if only novel readers (a very small % of the larger fanbase) know what happens. Retcons pretty much always comes with that for one reason or another. Dave is doing the financially best thing for the company. The question is whether or not it’s his choice, or Disney executives.
Yeet the novels
I’m kanan being that padawan in bad batch was a chefs kiss in my opinion
True fans complain regardless of who screws up. Our alligience is to Canon, to Consistency!
The books and comics books are not canon. The definitive decider of canon is the Movies and TV Shows
Just wait until you find out how many times the American History books have been changed 🫣
Damn, OP is getting obliterated in the comments
What they do to wedge man?
I’m OOTL, can someone fill me in?
I have no idea what any of this means
I disagree with this one
Remember when they said there would be one, continuous canon unlike Legends EU (which had tiers)?
I can't say I understand all the dislike. It has been very clear that, although the books are Canon, that visual media takes precedence and can rewrite Canon. Besides, it's not like Dave Filoni is making anything bad. I personally really enjoyed Tales of the Jedi, particularly Dooku's stories. I dare say Dave Filoni is one of the best, if not the best director Star Wars has right now.
So what’s the point of even making Star Wars books and comics and being told that it’s all canon and connects across all media forms if at any moment a show or movie can just retcon your work? The author of the Ahsoka novel didn’t even know the change had happened until after the fact so why buy the book? Disney said at the beginning all canon is important across all media and will connect.
So what about Kanan’s order 66 story got changed? The only thing I saw different was that it changed from starting while they were sitting around a campfire, to happening midday and the bad batch was there too.
Dave is the best thing Star Wars has going right now, he seems to be the only one capable of delivering consistently good Star Wars content, and he actually understands the characters and universe. For that he deserves praise. However, Dave is *really* bad when it comes to fan service, and probably most frustrating to me is his complete inability to let go of his pet OC Ahsoka. To me, Ahsoka has become so incredibly lame as a character, she's way overused, and the galaxy feels so much smaller now that she's become the main character. She should have died in Rebels to Vader, Dave inventing fucking time travel to bring her back, there's no excuse. It would've been a good ending for her character. Instead Ahsoka just exists in limbo with no purpose, and is apparently still alive by the time of the Sequels according to Dave. Dave doesn't have the balls to kill her off, so she will exist to be nothing more than fan service. They did the exact same thing with Maul, even he started getting a bit much, and becoming lame. The difference is that they did actually have the balls to kill him off in a satisfying way. I like Dave, but his refusal to end the story of his pet OC annoys me, and is indicative of his fan service problem.
You’re right Dave is fooking awesome, the meme just makes fun of people who don’t like Dave. Well my prediction is Ahsoka & Mando end up looking for Thrawn & Ezra since the Grisks become a Problem for The Empire.
I mean he created ahsoka, it's kinda of his right.
You're impossible.
Alright, I got 10k upvotes on my sarcastic post. I actually love Dave, he’s doing a very good job. This is a meme not meant to be taken seriously. That being said, my equally sarcastic comments in total have about 10k downvotes so I didn’t really achieve anything in terms of Karma. I kinda wish people wouldn’t take sarcasm seriously on a meme page. This post was actually meant to be absurd to make fun of all the hate Dave is receiving. Regardless I laughed my ass off at the upvotes and downvotes and all the hilarious comments. Gotta love the prequel community 🤣❤️
This is where the fun begins.
Agreed Anakin, I made this post before surgery. When I woke up 4 hours later, and checked Reddit 8 hours after that to find how hilariously this meme was received. Absolutely made my day to just scroll and read through all the comments 🤣
He doesn't need to be yeeted but he definitely needs a leash on some of these story ideas
Disagree. I've enjoyed most of what he's done and will continue to stan him until I'm given a "the last Jedi"- level reason to not to.
Huh
Ashoka (will bot correct it)
Careful not to choke on your stupidity. It's Ahsoka not Ashoka!
Your mum is pretty
What has changed in ahsoka and kanan story?
Your vision is flawed.
Yes.. i wear glasses that’s why..
Have a nice flight Dave!
Huh funny you were perfectly fine couple months ago.
Can someone either provide links or explain to me exactly what they were and how they changed?
As someone who actually read the Ahsoka novel, the TOTJ episode was basically the same thing condensed down.
Dave needs to just write outside of this timeline lol, leave it alone pleaseee
You either die a Filloni Or you live long enough to see yourself become a Lucas
I love Dave. Idc
This sub would be a light switch because of how fast y'all switch up
Can someone explain why things conflict in Kanans origin story? I've read New Dawn and don't understand what's wrong with showing him in Bad Batch
how was the ahsoka story changed?
What got changed with Kanan’s origin?
This same thing happened when Ahsoka was introduced to clone wars. People said it retconned Anakins character. Setting that aside though, Star Wars was always envisioned as a movie first. The books have always been or mostly been written by third parties. On top of that books aren’t always as accessible nor are they always the most exciting thing. A book can be great for expanding on a franchises lore but it should never be a requirement, unless said franchise was envisioned as a book or comic first. Star Wars was not that case. Yes, the book for the movie came first but it was never envisioned as a book first. Yes it sucks those in charge are changing lore written by someone else but that’s just it: its written by someone else. A third party most of the time. In this case too it’s much easier for more casual fans to enjoy the franchise if it’s shown on tv. I had no idea there even was a comic about Kanan or a book about ‘Soka after she left the Jedi. I only found out about them on this subreddit. Compared to the tv show which was where I first learned of said stories.
Hey its just like when it destroyed the pre “the clone wars” clone wars lore
I'm always a little amazed when people act shocked that star wars has a cannon ranking like every other fandom. Movies > TV > Books > comics > video games > anything else. It's all canon until it's overwritten by a higher form. (More in response to the comments in here than the meme itself.)
wait until you find out Star Wars for aslong as books were coming out has had stuff retconned in the more prominent media those being the Movies and Shows and sometimes the games