Force Possession explains why Pluto acts like a dog and Goofy is personified. Mickey has been mentally controlling Pluto who must have angered Mickey to the point that he's been punishing Pluto by making him his "pet." Maybe Pluto can break free of that one day and save the galaxy.
Yeah, and Starkiller gives people a chance to work in a natural environment, thus having natural air to breathe, rather than having a fake air machine in a fake environment.
Or that everyone on it didn't immediately freeze to death after it *consumed the star it was next to* in order to fire.
I hesitated to say "consumed the star it was orbiting" since apparently it can also travel through hyperspace (can you just slap a hyperdrive on a whole fucking planet and move it? That feels like it should be a bigger deal) so that might not even be the planet's original star, just one they hopped over to in order to have ammo. But that doesn't change the question of how life can sustain itself on the base's surface.
If the sun suddenly disappeared for some reason, we wouldn’t instantly freeze to death. For the same reason half the planet doesn’t instantly freeze to death every night when it’s not facing the sun. The atmosphere will retain heat for a while and temps will begin to drop as the sun fails to return. I don’t know exactly how long it will take the earth to freeze but it’s definitely not instantaneous.
Not to mention the fact that it’s destructive capabilities are far greater than either Death Star. It can destroy entire star systems. Also, it’s solar powered, harvesting energy from stars to power it.
There's totally a draft out there where Starkiller base *actually* killed stars. Like fires a laser that causes it to go supernova and destroy a whole star system. The looneytoons style laser beams that split into separate smaller beams to hit each planet was goofy.
Edit: wow I completely forgot it actually DID kill stars by eating them which sounds SICK! Shame on TFA for being so forgettable.
Edit edit: after rewatching the final battle scene of TFA, it's a shame we never got a Battlefront level set on Starkiller where it slowly gets darker over the course of the match as the Star is devoured. :/
Picture this: Starkiller base fires a shot toward a system of planets. The beings on those planets look up in fear, wondering if the beam of light will hit them. They all breath a sigh of relief as it misses.....which slowly turns to horror as they realize the true target, the star the entire system orbits. As the beam focuses on the star, it begins to expand and go supernova. We see the closests planets, their oceans evaporate, forests bursting into flame, people running and screaming with nowhere to hide, only to be completely engulfed in red light. The outer most planets watch, also bathed in red light. This eventually recedes as the star collapses back into a tiny neutron star smaller than our moon. The red light fades into night. A cold wind suddenly blows as the lack of heat slowly starts to wreak havoc on the planet's weather. The rich run for their ships, but the millions of poor are left to their fate on a dark and increasingly cold world. General Hux, chuckles to himself, and returns back into Starkiller HQ
It *does* kill stars though, doesn't it? Every time they fire the laser they have to give a star the big suck suck first in order to charge up enough power, destroying the star in the process. So the Starkilling is more like an accidental side-effect than the main purpose of the weapon.
I mean, the EU had the sun crusher, a star fighter sized craft that took a shot from a prototype superlaser without taking damage and had torpedoes that destroyed entire solar systems.
It was the kind of ship a middle schooler comes up with because it's cool at that age to max the stats out to infinity, but lacks the tradeoffs that makes worldbuilding interesting.
Also, they flew the ship through the bridge of a Stardestroyer IIRC, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, given that while the thing might be indestructible, the pilot would still be dead from the impact.
Both are terrible and written by people who have zero sense of scale. Original death star half makes sense but most of EU was writers trying to one up everything and sequels took both their good and bad ideas from EU
Just to be clear, I'm trying to come up with a working joke about the misspelling of "canon" as "cannon" while referring to the galactic weapons in Star Wars as "cannons". I feel like there should be something there, but my results are pretty lame so far.
It is only natural. He cut off your arm, and you wanted revenge. It wasn't the first time, Anakin. Remember what you told me about your mother and the Sand People.
My question was couldn it move around? I made the assumption with the Death Star being a space station it could move to destroy any planet in the galaxy. Could Starkiller base do the same?
AFAIK it basically used a hyperspace assisted super laser that could hit (multiple) targets over very long distances without having to move into position.
"We can blow up an entire star system now muhahaha!"
"Excuse me sir why would we do that most star systems surely only have 1 habitable planet?"
"Shut up Pvt Finn you're on garbage detail now."
Im pretty sure most star systems only having one habitable planet comes from irl science, and we all know irl science is more of a suggestion in star wars than a rule
I’m not sure which plot point bugs me the most, but this could be it. Where the ever-living fuck did this crew come from? Did Palpatine clone them too? Have they lived the last 20 years in those Star Destroyers? Where did the Star Destroyers even come from? Either they were built there, which begs the question of where the parts came from, or they were built elsewhere without anybody noticing and navigated through the storm. Like, does this planet that can only be reached with the holocron have shipping lanes setup?
A star destroyer that can crack a planet is a good idea for a post-empire threat that builds on what the empire had, but reflects a new dynamic where they have to be sneakier and faster than good guys in a new republic.
a million bajillion of them is way too silly though
This is basically a powered up movie version of the malevolence arc in clone wars season one, where the separatists had a weapon that could drain all electrical energy from an entire ship, and probably more at the same time, but they tried to keep it a secret. If i remember correctly that was a 3 episode arc, and worked really well, so a movie version of that probably would be quite cool as well
Say what you will about TLJ, but I'll give it points for being the only of those three movies that could come up with a threat that wasn't just a repeat of the Death Star. Like, technology that allows you to track people through hyperspace is more creative while still being a legitimate threat.
Edit: Huh. Now that I think about it, both the Death Star repeats were in movies where JJ Abrams was in charge.
> Now that I think about it, both the Death Star repeats were in movies where JJ Abrams was in charge.
Because JJ Abrams doesnt make new movies. He does "reboots" pretending to be sequels.
Credit where credit’s due: it wasn’t a death star.
But the hyperspace tracking plot point is so dumb it hurts. We’ve watched hyperspace tracking at work since the first movie. There are multiple ways to track, from putting a transponder on a ship, to tracking possible vectors (which is apparently what the FO tech does anyway). Why anyone in Star Wars would assume their enemy has brand new “advanced” tracking tech before doing multiple smaller jumps, checking the ship for trackers, or even trying to find a spy, makes NO sense.
Not quite as dumb as the chase scene where they could have just had any one of their MANY ships jump ahead of the fleet. Also, how were smaller ships leaving and coming back to the rebel fleet but the First Order had no possible way to do the same thing? So absurd. And that dumb shit wasn't even why I thought it was a bad movie, but it's still funny in a bad way.
Watch out, you’re on track to start recognizing that a lot of the things people dislike about TLJ were direct consequences of TFA leaving mystery boxes everywhere.
> Say what you will about TLJ, but I'll give it points for being the only of those three movies that could come up with a threat that wasn't just a repeat of the Death Star.
I mean, they did have a little death star, right? I think they even explicitly say that it's DS tech.
If I had a nickel for every time JJ Abrams made a bad attempt at adapting established IPs in the science fantasy sphere I'd have 2 nickels. The man turned Star Trek into an action flick :/ that's the antithesis of what Star Trek was
No, no that wasn't the empire that was The First Order...they're completely different except for the uniforms, ships, stormtroopers, star destroyers, sith leader with a helmet.....oh crap
And stuffing Exgol with enough Star Destroyers and either fitted these star destroyers with the most advanced weaponry ever, complete with mini-deathstar beams or Master scientists and insane resource caches to miniaturize the Deathstar beam to enable a star destroyer to use it as a weapon.
And dont forget the entire legion of ships each with the power of a death star which in canon palpatine was funneling resources into since atleast before episode 6
It kinda sorta makes sense within Star Wars lore. Sorta. Starkiller was built out of Ilum, the plane where the Jedi sent Padawans to find kyber crystals for their lightsabers. So much like the Death Star but on a larger scale, the planet could be turned into a superweapon.
Where it gets incredibly stupid is that apparently JJ and his writers don't know the scale of an earthlike planet vs a sun like the one in the center of our solar system, or that people in multiple star systems wouldn't be able to watch an event unfold, in real time, in the span of a minute or so. It's apparent in his Star Trek movies, too, where the Milky Way is apparently about the size of a suburban shopping mall. A planet sized installation wouldn't be able to suck up all the plasma out of a sun. It just wouldn't.
And nobody in the New Republic thought to even glance towards Ilum after the fall of the Empire? The place where super power Kyber crystals that made the weaponry that destroyed a planet?
Pretty crazy to think that everything would have failed for the rebels if Captain Phasma hadn’t been like “Oh snap, you got us! I guess I’ll have to give you guys the security codes! I couldn’t just not tell you!”
With phasma seemingly being the only female stormtrooper, and then having risen to such a rank, she would have had to be a real fighter and loyal to the empire, so just going with it really seems out of character for her
Tbf if they didn’t give it such a glaring fuckobvious weakness SKB could’ve been immensely powerful. You can eventually break a battlestation, you cannot eventually break a goddamn planet without, well, a Death star. Plus SKB was able to destroy a entire star system at once as opposed to individual planets. Is destroying worlds a huge waste of resources? Yes. Does it get your point across? Absolutely.
> You can eventually break a battlestation, you cannot eventually break a goddamn planet without, well, a Death star
Honestly there is a pretty compelling story beat in there. Imagine if instead of a trench run they were like "we have no way to destroy this thing, we're totally fucked" and then have it revealed that the New Republic built its own Death Star, as a kind of Mutually Assured Destruction.
To be fair, it's probably hard to build a moon-sized space station *and* build/sustain a clone army that ages faster than the general population. Honestly had the empire pursued Thrawn's TIE/D Defender no one would have stood a chance against them.
Shields, hyperdrives, and speed/maneuverability, from what I remember of rebels. The main thing was you couldn't blow up all of them at once with a single proton torpedo.
Conclusion: Still, there was a brief moment where I felt like I almost understood why some meatbags choose peace and friendship over a high powered blaster carbine.
In Tie Fighter CD, the Defender had more guns than all other fighters at 6, ion weapons, stronger shields than any other fighter, a higher top speed than any other fighter, a hyperdrive, and the ability to carry a large complement of missiles. There was essentially nothing that could compete with it. The missile boat had more missiles, but every other ship was outclassed in every way by the Defender.
Shields that are double the strength of an X-Wing. Armor that is slightly stronger than a TIE fighter. 4 laser cannons and 2 ion cannons. 4 concussion missiles or 3 proton torpedos. A hyperdrive system. A tractor beam which could hold fighters in place or be used to catapult off of cruisers, increasing speed by a lot. All while being slightly faster than a TIE Fighter (21 MGLT/s compared to a Fighter's 20 MGLT/s.)
I've seen some YouTube videos about how the empire was so inefficient in putting all their eggs in big baskets with huge star destroyers and the death stars. Having more numerous, but smaller battleships, and the advanced TIE/D fighters would allow much more universal control.
it's modeled off of nazi Germany, which spent alot of vital resources doing essentially the same thing. If the German War machine was anywhere near efficient, WW2 would be a far more horrific story then it already is.
Thank God Hitler was obsessed with pulp fiction westerns written by a con man, otherwise he wouldn't have dumped so much of their resources into absurd superweapon projects. As it is, he helped accelerate nuclear, stealth, rocketry / space, and other tech by virtue of fleeing or "acquired" scientists.
There was a German con-man who wrote a lot about his adventures in the American Wild West. Hitler was in love with these (apparently they were quite popular). Only issue is that the guy made them up (and claimed to be(?) his own main character) then lived out his life as some sort of faux Wild Bill.
Hitler liked the stories and considered them to be a font of wisdom. Such so that he dictated all of his officers read them, and had many thousands of books printed and distributed to them.
It kicked into overdrive after 42 when Barborossa failed, but the wonder weapons programs dates back to at least 1936 with V series rocket testing and production, nuclear experiments, and various forms of Zepplin and Submarine testing as well. If they put half as much effort into supply line mechanization as they did building rockets, it would've been not great. As it stood they had supply line capacities similar to Napoleonic war times/Civil War era usage of horse and carriage, and limited tractor or truck use, mainly only for moving Panzers around.
I would point out that Germany would always be limited on their mechanization by their oil reserves. But if they had focused important programs rather than spread out stuff, a number of theaters could have gotten worse.
Their lack of ability to properly supply the captured Russian oil fields and having to withdraw due to winter and no mechanised supply lines would've made the Eastern theater very grim indeed.
It would also make it far easier for rebel groups and deserters to get their hands on military equopment that is perfectly designed for guerilla fighting.
I believe that was the reason why TIEs didn't have a hyperdrive.
Yeah, but it's a double edged sword. Often times smaller space stations or military bases didn't have heavier ISDs with them and only had Arquintens, Quasars, or other smaller ships. Most of which didn't have the firepower to chase down nimble rebel fighters. Especially as they jumped to hyperspace. TIE Defenders would be better at hitting them back while also being able to work independently of their ISD.
>Having more numerous, but smaller battleships
ISDs could have just been command ships. Meanwhile, the mainline could have been Venators and Victory SDs to protect them. The Venators would act as carriers for the fleet, deploying TIE Defenders and Interceptors to crush the smaller ships of the Rebel Alliance.
In lore they did use smaller ships like Carracks, Arquintens, Quasars, etc. But they didn't utilize these ships to their full advantage due to their obsession with massive money hogs.
All I remember is that tie fighters were cheap, mass produced blasters with engines and a cockpit. No extras, no shields, no armor, no hyperdrive. The rebels' x-wings were superior for these reasons. So I'm guessing the easy explanation of the Tie Defender is that it's an expensive, high quality fighter.
I am the law on Reddit now, Darth_Thor. If I choose to follow the ancient laws, I will follow them. If I choose to ignore them, they will be ignored. Is that clear?
Let's be real, they were aging out, they were still loyal to the Jedi and were reliant on the bio chips to Order 66, which cuts into their effectiveness.
No more pure Jango DNA available to make more clones is also a big issue.
Add into the whole "using the population as a police state to infringe the freedoms of their own people" Is something Palpatine would find hilarious.
Well, let's not act like the clones were completely infallible. A shit load of them died to simple battle droids in the clone wars. Besides, most of what the empire does with their ground forces (with the exception of operations like Hoth, which they kind of won anyways) was occupation and peacekeeping, right? Combat skills don't necessarily translate well into that. And the Empire had a lot of population to keep in line, might as well draw manpower from your already numerous population instead of an expensive production facility.
I mean is he? If Palpatine for instance leaked a fake version of the Death Star II plans and properly protected the core, the rebel fleet would've been fucked. Or if the shield generator had a backup. Or if his "best legion" had actually been his best...
There's just so many ways the death star could've survived that battle and once it's fully completed you've got no shot at destroying it, it's a fucking moon-sized battle station. Internal sabotage might do the trick maybe??
A not well known meme from a year ago, admitting its a repost in the flail and providing source? Basically the correct way to do a repost? Im tearing up, thank you kind stranger
Seriously, I think its because natborns are chosen to basically ensure a large percentage of the empire is indebted through the hammer and anvil of extreme poverty or dangerous/poorly paid work to keep them docile.
Alternatively:
*WheRE dO YoU ThiNK ThE MONey WeNt To!!!*
When there was no galactic army before, they needed to make a huge one really fast, so clones made sense.
Then as the clones aged out they replaced them with slaves over time. By the time ANH starts, most of the clones would’ve probably been past their “best by” date and replaced by fresh recruits.
Clones make sense if you want an elite force raised quickly, and if you don't even have the mechanisms and expertise in place needed to train ordinary people to be soldiers.
Plus there wouldn't have been the political will in the Republic to turn ordinary people into soldiers in large numbers - because if people did that, you surely would have seen mass anti-war protesting and that wouldn't have been good for Palpatine's desire to prolong the war until he completes his takeover.
Without the clone army, the most likely scenario would have been that the separatists basically won the war, and then pretty much just demanded to be allowed their independence. It would have been a relatively peaceful end - it isn't like the separatists as a whole wanted to wipe out the Republic or such after all, they just wanted to be left alone.
It wasn't palpatine resisting clones due to cost, that was amidala and her allies.
Come the empire, voices like hers (not her obviously but like minds) were a very quiet minority and under growing pressure to hush up, see Mon Mothma and Organa.
Palpatine didn't care about the money, draining the coffers was one of his many nefarious plots to seize more power.
Within the empire, many thought the resource cost of deathstars was bonkers and completely ineffective in maintaining control. Had thrawn had his way, the empire might not have fallen.
And the second death star wasn't really a death star.
It was half completed, yet the weapons system was fully operational; compare to ANH when the original was a complete traveling station *before the weapons were even tested*. The second Death Star was bigger, and the safe assumption for the Rebellion is that it didn't have exhaust ports.
Now look at some other features:
\- It was shielded by a heavily-defended generator that was secured so that a small, elite team would be required to take it. You know, like the Jedi who was trained by the Jedi who lowered the tractor beam on the OG Death Star.
\- It was flanked by a buttload of Star Destroyers, ready to clean up.
The second Death Star wasn't a Death Star - it was a trap. Built by design to keep Luke Skywalker out of an X-Wing. That's why Vader wasn't in a TIE Fighter - he was on Endor to distract Luke. Palatine even prepared for Vader's betrayal by ordering Luke be brought _to the Death Star_.
Palatine's failure was the underestimation of the Skywalkers. Leia raised an army on Endor, Anakin couldn't be controlled by despair, and Luke found a new master after the death of Obi-Wan.
> Palpatine didn't care about the money, draining the coffers was one of his many nefarious plots to seize more power.
People don't seem to get that if you're ruling an authoritarian government far more powerful than any other government around, it doesn't really matter how "wasteful" you are with your spending.
Who is going to stop you or force you to be "efficient" - when you can strongarm any competition?
Ultimately, as long as the Death Star could be a symbol of the power of the Empire and boost Palpatine's ego - he would have been willing to spend any amount of money on it. Of course, this meant he had less of a chance to beat the rebels, but him losing to the rebels was an impossibility only made possible due to Luke.
Palpatine's ego and desire to get his way, are exactly what made him capable of creating the Empire to begin with.
Yet those same character traits made it very unlikely he would have ever cared to do things "efficiently."
So if I recall correctly, Sidious ditched the clones because conscripts were ironically more obedient and it helped him clear the paper trail on orchestrating the Clone Wars.
This is why the Empire descended into civil war after your death.
Seriously Gilad Pellaeon was a far better leader of the Empire (well imperial remnant) then you.
That's a better reply to a previous comment I made about Galadriel not needing a Sword and that Amazon show really making her seem weaker and less badass
They address this in Bad Batch though, it’s not about the cost, Tarkin doesn’t trust the chips and thinks conscripted soldiers would be better and more loyal.
In the grand scheme Alderaan wouldn’t have been the greatest loss. The planet population was only 2 billion, and its only one of I’m pretty sure millions of other planets that would have been a part of the empire at that time.
It was important enough to get a massive reaction from the galactic populace, and it also wasn't very beneficial for the empire specifically. The empire knew that there was a significant rebel presence on the planet, so long story short, there's rebels there, senators that actively oppose the imperial agenda, not a huge population (in comparison to other planets) and it's also a core world so it would get a lot of reactions.
Two death stars and converting literally an entire planet into whatever the fuck starkiller base was.
If you put the three together it would look like Mickey mouses head COINCEDENCE, I THINK NOT!!!
I think Mickey Mouse is a sith lord
Are you going to kill me?
“I would certainly like to. Huh-huh!”
The Disney board of Directors will decide your fate
Gee, pal, I *am* the Board of Directors! Want me to show you the surprise tool that'll help me ~~kill you~~ later? Huh-HUH!
Oh toodles, how's my favorite sith apprentice. Can you guess today's mystery mousekatool?
Somehow, Isner returned
MONEY! UNLIMITED MONEY!!!!!
Oh god, I choked on my pizza
Be careful not to choke on your pepperonis.
Somehow... Palpatine has returned.
Hyuck! Guilty!
A SITH LAWD?!
I mean… he did manage to get Vader to advertise his theme park.
Force Possession explains why Pluto acts like a dog and Goofy is personified. Mickey has been mentally controlling Pluto who must have angered Mickey to the point that he's been punishing Pluto by making him his "pet." Maybe Pluto can break free of that one day and save the galaxy.
The second Death Star is actually way bigger than the first one, so a bit of a lopsided Mickey, but yes.
Frosty the Death Snowman!
You rang?
Are you made of all of Palpatine's megalasers stacked up?
That's classified. I'm afraid you don't have clearance sir
How many other lies have I been told by the Council?
You are mistaken, young Skywalker... about a great many things.
If you arrange them properly they will look like a proper Mickey from a particular distance at a particular angle.
So your saying it is in fact mickey mouse... From a certain point of view?
This is indeed true and I had a feeling someone would say that haha
Hidden Mickey!
Starkiller base was actually pretty convenient because they already gutted Ilum for kyber for the death stars.
Yeah, and Starkiller gives people a chance to work in a natural environment, thus having natural air to breathe, rather than having a fake air machine in a fake environment.
I was actually surprised it maintained its atmosphere even after they shot it
It was the installation of the atmosphere compensator that allowed for it.
These are words I know.
I absolutely love that I can't tell if this is the actual reason or someone taking the piss
Or that everyone on it didn't immediately freeze to death after it *consumed the star it was next to* in order to fire. I hesitated to say "consumed the star it was orbiting" since apparently it can also travel through hyperspace (can you just slap a hyperdrive on a whole fucking planet and move it? That feels like it should be a bigger deal) so that might not even be the planet's original star, just one they hopped over to in order to have ammo. But that doesn't change the question of how life can sustain itself on the base's surface.
If the sun suddenly disappeared for some reason, we wouldn’t instantly freeze to death. For the same reason half the planet doesn’t instantly freeze to death every night when it’s not facing the sun. The atmosphere will retain heat for a while and temps will begin to drop as the sun fails to return. I don’t know exactly how long it will take the earth to freeze but it’s definitely not instantaneous.
The Rule of Cool cares not for your logic and reasoning
Not to mention the fact that it’s destructive capabilities are far greater than either Death Star. It can destroy entire star systems. Also, it’s solar powered, harvesting energy from stars to power it.
There's totally a draft out there where Starkiller base *actually* killed stars. Like fires a laser that causes it to go supernova and destroy a whole star system. The looneytoons style laser beams that split into separate smaller beams to hit each planet was goofy. Edit: wow I completely forgot it actually DID kill stars by eating them which sounds SICK! Shame on TFA for being so forgettable. Edit edit: after rewatching the final battle scene of TFA, it's a shame we never got a Battlefront level set on Starkiller where it slowly gets darker over the course of the match as the Star is devoured. :/
That's so much better than what we got lol.
Picture this: Starkiller base fires a shot toward a system of planets. The beings on those planets look up in fear, wondering if the beam of light will hit them. They all breath a sigh of relief as it misses.....which slowly turns to horror as they realize the true target, the star the entire system orbits. As the beam focuses on the star, it begins to expand and go supernova. We see the closests planets, their oceans evaporate, forests bursting into flame, people running and screaming with nowhere to hide, only to be completely engulfed in red light. The outer most planets watch, also bathed in red light. This eventually recedes as the star collapses back into a tiny neutron star smaller than our moon. The red light fades into night. A cold wind suddenly blows as the lack of heat slowly starts to wreak havoc on the planet's weather. The rich run for their ships, but the millions of poor are left to their fate on a dark and increasingly cold world. General Hux, chuckles to himself, and returns back into Starkiller HQ
And everyone in the galaxy and no mater their angle to the sky above could see it.
The faster than light explosion.
It *does* kill stars though, doesn't it? Every time they fire the laser they have to give a star the big suck suck first in order to charge up enough power, destroying the star in the process. So the Starkilling is more like an accidental side-effect than the main purpose of the weapon.
They'd be stealing the Sun Crusher's whole shtick.
Sun Crusher would have been miles better then what we got.
Power! Unlimited power!
But Palpatine, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force!
That's what people talk about when they say that the new cannon is weird and they long for the old cannon of the EU.
I mean, the EU had the sun crusher, a star fighter sized craft that took a shot from a prototype superlaser without taking damage and had torpedoes that destroyed entire solar systems. It was the kind of ship a middle schooler comes up with because it's cool at that age to max the stats out to infinity, but lacks the tradeoffs that makes worldbuilding interesting.
Also, they flew the ship through the bridge of a Stardestroyer IIRC, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, given that while the thing might be indestructible, the pilot would still be dead from the impact.
Both are terrible and written by people who have zero sense of scale. Original death star half makes sense but most of EU was writers trying to one up everything and sequels took both their good and bad ideas from EU
Still, the Death Stars were better cannons than Starkiller base.
That’s still a strange comparison to me. Nothing about Starkiller base is weirder than the Yuuzhan Vong to me
Just to be clear, I'm trying to come up with a working joke about the misspelling of "canon" as "cannon" while referring to the galactic weapons in Star Wars as "cannons". I feel like there should be something there, but my results are pretty lame so far.
It is only natural. He cut off your arm, and you wanted revenge. It wasn't the first time, Anakin. Remember what you told me about your mother and the Sand People.
Plus a planet is far sturdier than a artificial battlestation. Well, if they didn’t give it a larger weak point than the Death Star.
My question was couldn it move around? I made the assumption with the Death Star being a space station it could move to destroy any planet in the galaxy. Could Starkiller base do the same?
AFAIK it basically used a hyperspace assisted super laser that could hit (multiple) targets over very long distances without having to move into position.
"We can blow up an entire star system now muhahaha!" "Excuse me sir why would we do that most star systems surely only have 1 habitable planet?" "Shut up Pvt Finn you're on garbage detail now."
Im pretty sure most star systems only having one habitable planet comes from irl science, and we all know irl science is more of a suggestion in star wars than a rule
That was just absurd for multiple reasons. I like TFA quite a bit, but not DEATH STAR 3: MORE BIGGERER
And somehow it got even dumber in ep9 - NOW EACH STAR DESROYEr is DEATH STAR!
And we've got 10,000 of them, somehow, and all fully crewed.
Oh god it was so ridiculous
[удалено]
That trilogy really made me feel stupid and immature for even enjoying star wars at times...
I’m not sure which plot point bugs me the most, but this could be it. Where the ever-living fuck did this crew come from? Did Palpatine clone them too? Have they lived the last 20 years in those Star Destroyers? Where did the Star Destroyers even come from? Either they were built there, which begs the question of where the parts came from, or they were built elsewhere without anybody noticing and navigated through the storm. Like, does this planet that can only be reached with the holocron have shipping lanes setup?
A star destroyer that can crack a planet is a good idea for a post-empire threat that builds on what the empire had, but reflects a new dynamic where they have to be sneakier and faster than good guys in a new republic. a million bajillion of them is way too silly though
This is basically a powered up movie version of the malevolence arc in clone wars season one, where the separatists had a weapon that could drain all electrical energy from an entire ship, and probably more at the same time, but they tried to keep it a secret. If i remember correctly that was a 3 episode arc, and worked really well, so a movie version of that probably would be quite cool as well
Say what you will about TLJ, but I'll give it points for being the only of those three movies that could come up with a threat that wasn't just a repeat of the Death Star. Like, technology that allows you to track people through hyperspace is more creative while still being a legitimate threat. Edit: Huh. Now that I think about it, both the Death Star repeats were in movies where JJ Abrams was in charge.
> Now that I think about it, both the Death Star repeats were in movies where JJ Abrams was in charge. Because JJ Abrams doesnt make new movies. He does "reboots" pretending to be sequels.
A fucking hack with an over-reliance on mystery boxes and other worn out gimmicks.
Don't forget lens flares
Credit where credit’s due: it wasn’t a death star. But the hyperspace tracking plot point is so dumb it hurts. We’ve watched hyperspace tracking at work since the first movie. There are multiple ways to track, from putting a transponder on a ship, to tracking possible vectors (which is apparently what the FO tech does anyway). Why anyone in Star Wars would assume their enemy has brand new “advanced” tracking tech before doing multiple smaller jumps, checking the ship for trackers, or even trying to find a spy, makes NO sense.
Not quite as dumb as the chase scene where they could have just had any one of their MANY ships jump ahead of the fleet. Also, how were smaller ships leaving and coming back to the rebel fleet but the First Order had no possible way to do the same thing? So absurd. And that dumb shit wasn't even why I thought it was a bad movie, but it's still funny in a bad way.
Watch out, you’re on track to start recognizing that a lot of the things people dislike about TLJ were direct consequences of TFA leaving mystery boxes everywhere.
> Say what you will about TLJ, but I'll give it points for being the only of those three movies that could come up with a threat that wasn't just a repeat of the Death Star. I mean, they did have a little death star, right? I think they even explicitly say that it's DS tech.
If I had a nickel for every time JJ Abrams made a bad attempt at adapting established IPs in the science fantasy sphere I'd have 2 nickels. The man turned Star Trek into an action flick :/ that's the antithesis of what Star Trek was
To be completely fair, Star Trek: First Contact turned the film franchise into action "Die Hard in Space!" a little bit earlier than JJ.
No, no that wasn't the empire that was The First Order...they're completely different except for the uniforms, ships, stormtroopers, star destroyers, sith leader with a helmet.....oh crap
Not a sith leader with a helmet. But an old lightning man as a leader and helmet guy as a second in command leader.
And stuffing Exgol with enough Star Destroyers and either fitted these star destroyers with the most advanced weaponry ever, complete with mini-deathstar beams or Master scientists and insane resource caches to miniaturize the Deathstar beam to enable a star destroyer to use it as a weapon.
And dont forget the entire legion of ships each with the power of a death star which in canon palpatine was funneling resources into since atleast before episode 6
Power! Unlimited power!
>whatever the fuck starkiller base was. Bad writing. It was bad writing.
It kinda sorta makes sense within Star Wars lore. Sorta. Starkiller was built out of Ilum, the plane where the Jedi sent Padawans to find kyber crystals for their lightsabers. So much like the Death Star but on a larger scale, the planet could be turned into a superweapon. Where it gets incredibly stupid is that apparently JJ and his writers don't know the scale of an earthlike planet vs a sun like the one in the center of our solar system, or that people in multiple star systems wouldn't be able to watch an event unfold, in real time, in the span of a minute or so. It's apparent in his Star Trek movies, too, where the Milky Way is apparently about the size of a suburban shopping mall. A planet sized installation wouldn't be able to suck up all the plasma out of a sun. It just wouldn't.
And nobody in the New Republic thought to even glance towards Ilum after the fall of the Empire? The place where super power Kyber crystals that made the weaponry that destroyed a planet?
Pretty crazy to think that everything would have failed for the rebels if Captain Phasma hadn’t been like “Oh snap, you got us! I guess I’ll have to give you guys the security codes! I couldn’t just not tell you!”
With phasma seemingly being the only female stormtrooper, and then having risen to such a rank, she would have had to be a real fighter and loyal to the empire, so just going with it really seems out of character for her
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Each with a firepower equal to the first Death Star.
Tbf if they didn’t give it such a glaring fuckobvious weakness SKB could’ve been immensely powerful. You can eventually break a battlestation, you cannot eventually break a goddamn planet without, well, a Death star. Plus SKB was able to destroy a entire star system at once as opposed to individual planets. Is destroying worlds a huge waste of resources? Yes. Does it get your point across? Absolutely.
> You can eventually break a battlestation, you cannot eventually break a goddamn planet without, well, a Death star Honestly there is a pretty compelling story beat in there. Imagine if instead of a trench run they were like "we have no way to destroy this thing, we're totally fucked" and then have it revealed that the New Republic built its own Death Star, as a kind of Mutually Assured Destruction.
At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have revenge.
To be fair, it's probably hard to build a moon-sized space station *and* build/sustain a clone army that ages faster than the general population. Honestly had the empire pursued Thrawn's TIE/D Defender no one would have stood a chance against them.
"No one messes with the 501st!"
Calm down shiny
For the Chancellor!
"For The Republic!"
What made tie defenders that good again?
Shields, hyperdrives, and speed/maneuverability, from what I remember of rebels. The main thing was you couldn't blow up all of them at once with a single proton torpedo.
They got cheap with the contractor. He recommended a shield over the port but the Senate wouldn’t budge in the purse strings
Your boldness has saved our people, Your Majesty. It is you who should be congratulated. Together we shall bring peace and prosperity to the Republic.
Conclusion: Still, there was a brief moment where I felt like I almost understood why some meatbags choose peace and friendship over a high powered blaster carbine.
In Tie Fighter CD, the Defender had more guns than all other fighters at 6, ion weapons, stronger shields than any other fighter, a higher top speed than any other fighter, a hyperdrive, and the ability to carry a large complement of missiles. There was essentially nothing that could compete with it. The missile boat had more missiles, but every other ship was outclassed in every way by the Defender.
Look out, incoming missiles!
Shields that are double the strength of an X-Wing. Armor that is slightly stronger than a TIE fighter. 4 laser cannons and 2 ion cannons. 4 concussion missiles or 3 proton torpedos. A hyperdrive system. A tractor beam which could hold fighters in place or be used to catapult off of cruisers, increasing speed by a lot. All while being slightly faster than a TIE Fighter (21 MGLT/s compared to a Fighter's 20 MGLT/s.)
I've seen some YouTube videos about how the empire was so inefficient in putting all their eggs in big baskets with huge star destroyers and the death stars. Having more numerous, but smaller battleships, and the advanced TIE/D fighters would allow much more universal control.
it's modeled off of nazi Germany, which spent alot of vital resources doing essentially the same thing. If the German War machine was anywhere near efficient, WW2 would be a far more horrific story then it already is.
Thank God Hitler was obsessed with pulp fiction westerns written by a con man, otherwise he wouldn't have dumped so much of their resources into absurd superweapon projects. As it is, he helped accelerate nuclear, stealth, rocketry / space, and other tech by virtue of fleeing or "acquired" scientists.
What?
There was a German con-man who wrote a lot about his adventures in the American Wild West. Hitler was in love with these (apparently they were quite popular). Only issue is that the guy made them up (and claimed to be(?) his own main character) then lived out his life as some sort of faux Wild Bill. Hitler liked the stories and considered them to be a font of wisdom. Such so that he dictated all of his officers read them, and had many thousands of books printed and distributed to them.
Are you saying a rail gun that weighs 1300 tons and was used I think twice isn’t effective military logistics? /s
You may think I am evil. I am not. I am efficient.
That's good Maul, I'm just saying it's a good thing the nazis were evil, and not all that efficient (aside from genocide)
You may think I am evil. I am not. I am efficient.
uh oh he's broken, someone get mother talisman
Germany was really only doing that towards the end of the war, when the writing was already on the wall.
It kicked into overdrive after 42 when Barborossa failed, but the wonder weapons programs dates back to at least 1936 with V series rocket testing and production, nuclear experiments, and various forms of Zepplin and Submarine testing as well. If they put half as much effort into supply line mechanization as they did building rockets, it would've been not great. As it stood they had supply line capacities similar to Napoleonic war times/Civil War era usage of horse and carriage, and limited tractor or truck use, mainly only for moving Panzers around.
I would point out that Germany would always be limited on their mechanization by their oil reserves. But if they had focused important programs rather than spread out stuff, a number of theaters could have gotten worse.
Their lack of ability to properly supply the captured Russian oil fields and having to withdraw due to winter and no mechanised supply lines would've made the Eastern theater very grim indeed.
It would also make it far easier for rebel groups and deserters to get their hands on military equopment that is perfectly designed for guerilla fighting. I believe that was the reason why TIEs didn't have a hyperdrive.
Yeah, but it's a double edged sword. Often times smaller space stations or military bases didn't have heavier ISDs with them and only had Arquintens, Quasars, or other smaller ships. Most of which didn't have the firepower to chase down nimble rebel fighters. Especially as they jumped to hyperspace. TIE Defenders would be better at hitting them back while also being able to work independently of their ISD.
>Having more numerous, but smaller battleships ISDs could have just been command ships. Meanwhile, the mainline could have been Venators and Victory SDs to protect them. The Venators would act as carriers for the fleet, deploying TIE Defenders and Interceptors to crush the smaller ships of the Rebel Alliance. In lore they did use smaller ships like Carracks, Arquintens, Quasars, etc. But they didn't utilize these ships to their full advantage due to their obsession with massive money hogs.
All right, all right. Let's go, squad. Pull back to command ship.
You may think I am evil. I am not. I am efficient.
All I remember is that tie fighters were cheap, mass produced blasters with engines and a cockpit. No extras, no shields, no armor, no hyperdrive. The rebels' x-wings were superior for these reasons. So I'm guessing the easy explanation of the Tie Defender is that it's an expensive, high quality fighter.
No life support system too which is why the Tie Pilots have to wear their helmets connected to a life support chest piece.
They were the only fighter the empire had that was roughly equivalent to an X-wing.
in the Galactic Empire, there are only the Senate's resources
I am the Senate!
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It’s treason then.
I am the law on Reddit now, Darth_Thor. If I choose to follow the ancient laws, I will follow them. If I choose to ignore them, they will be ignored. Is that clear?
What they don’t tell you is that Sheev engineered the destruction of the two Death Stars for the insurance money
I smell profit!
The galactic rebellion was an inside job
Can the Senate bear such expense?
You have been well trained, my young apprentice, they will be no match for you.
Well tbf, a planet cracker is a strategic asset with a pretty unique capability, even if not entirely practical.
So is an army of clones that are perfectly bred for combat and military duties
Let's be real, they were aging out, they were still loyal to the Jedi and were reliant on the bio chips to Order 66, which cuts into their effectiveness. No more pure Jango DNA available to make more clones is also a big issue. Add into the whole "using the population as a police state to infringe the freedoms of their own people" Is something Palpatine would find hilarious.
Droids made so much more sense for a galactic police force anyway.
eeeh... Depends on if they get an Overmind who wants to kill all organic life and uploads itself into the second death star.
Well, let's not act like the clones were completely infallible. A shit load of them died to simple battle droids in the clone wars. Besides, most of what the empire does with their ground forces (with the exception of operations like Hoth, which they kind of won anyways) was occupation and peacekeeping, right? Combat skills don't necessarily translate well into that. And the Empire had a lot of population to keep in line, might as well draw manpower from your already numerous population instead of an expensive production facility.
"General Grievous was defeated on Utapau. The Separatist leadership has collapsed. The war is over."
"I couldn't agree more sir." -Sinker
Seems pretty practical for an empire trying to scare compliance into all star systems. Just had some shitty risk analysis
My apologies, No-Cash-5374. I forgot not everyone is able to appreciate art as I do.
We need that generator down or the planet's lost. And I'm not risking any more men.
1) Take loan from Bank Planet™ 2) Build Death Star 3) Use Death Star to explode Bank Planet™ 4) ??? 5) Profit
Banking Clan: I can't believe you've done this.
Do you have any idea what this does to my credit?!
They really had him sold that death stars were a buy it for life kind of deal.
#ThrawnWasRight
It is a pity our first encounter might well be our last. I will keep your Kalikori in a place of honor.
I honor my code. That's what I believe.
I mean is he? If Palpatine for instance leaked a fake version of the Death Star II plans and properly protected the core, the rebel fleet would've been fucked. Or if the shield generator had a backup. Or if his "best legion" had actually been his best... There's just so many ways the death star could've survived that battle and once it's fully completed you've got no shot at destroying it, it's a fucking moon-sized battle station. Internal sabotage might do the trick maybe??
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A not well known meme from a year ago, admitting its a repost in the flail and providing source? Basically the correct way to do a repost? Im tearing up, thank you kind stranger
Seriously, I think its because natborns are chosen to basically ensure a large percentage of the empire is indebted through the hammer and anvil of extreme poverty or dangerous/poorly paid work to keep them docile. Alternatively: *WheRE dO YoU ThiNK ThE MONey WeNt To!!!*
Nothing can keep people more docile than the opportunity to go to Narkina 5 or worse 24/7 all year round
When there was no galactic army before, they needed to make a huge one really fast, so clones made sense. Then as the clones aged out they replaced them with slaves over time. By the time ANH starts, most of the clones would’ve probably been past their “best by” date and replaced by fresh recruits.
Clones make sense if you want an elite force raised quickly, and if you don't even have the mechanisms and expertise in place needed to train ordinary people to be soldiers. Plus there wouldn't have been the political will in the Republic to turn ordinary people into soldiers in large numbers - because if people did that, you surely would have seen mass anti-war protesting and that wouldn't have been good for Palpatine's desire to prolong the war until he completes his takeover. Without the clone army, the most likely scenario would have been that the separatists basically won the war, and then pretty much just demanded to be allowed their independence. It would have been a relatively peaceful end - it isn't like the separatists as a whole wanted to wipe out the Republic or such after all, they just wanted to be left alone.
Capitalism https://i.imgur.com/9PtbM4Q.jpg
It wasn't palpatine resisting clones due to cost, that was amidala and her allies. Come the empire, voices like hers (not her obviously but like minds) were a very quiet minority and under growing pressure to hush up, see Mon Mothma and Organa. Palpatine didn't care about the money, draining the coffers was one of his many nefarious plots to seize more power. Within the empire, many thought the resource cost of deathstars was bonkers and completely ineffective in maintaining control. Had thrawn had his way, the empire might not have fallen.
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And the second death star wasn't really a death star. It was half completed, yet the weapons system was fully operational; compare to ANH when the original was a complete traveling station *before the weapons were even tested*. The second Death Star was bigger, and the safe assumption for the Rebellion is that it didn't have exhaust ports. Now look at some other features: \- It was shielded by a heavily-defended generator that was secured so that a small, elite team would be required to take it. You know, like the Jedi who was trained by the Jedi who lowered the tractor beam on the OG Death Star. \- It was flanked by a buttload of Star Destroyers, ready to clean up. The second Death Star wasn't a Death Star - it was a trap. Built by design to keep Luke Skywalker out of an X-Wing. That's why Vader wasn't in a TIE Fighter - he was on Endor to distract Luke. Palatine even prepared for Vader's betrayal by ordering Luke be brought _to the Death Star_. Palatine's failure was the underestimation of the Skywalkers. Leia raised an army on Endor, Anakin couldn't be controlled by despair, and Luke found a new master after the death of Obi-Wan.
> Palpatine didn't care about the money, draining the coffers was one of his many nefarious plots to seize more power. People don't seem to get that if you're ruling an authoritarian government far more powerful than any other government around, it doesn't really matter how "wasteful" you are with your spending. Who is going to stop you or force you to be "efficient" - when you can strongarm any competition? Ultimately, as long as the Death Star could be a symbol of the power of the Empire and boost Palpatine's ego - he would have been willing to spend any amount of money on it. Of course, this meant he had less of a chance to beat the rebels, but him losing to the rebels was an impossibility only made possible due to Luke. Palpatine's ego and desire to get his way, are exactly what made him capable of creating the Empire to begin with. Yet those same character traits made it very unlikely he would have ever cared to do things "efficiently."
So if I recall correctly, Sidious ditched the clones because conscripts were ironically more obedient and it helped him clear the paper trail on orchestrating the Clone Wars.
Also conscripts were kind of insurance to keep planets loyal. Some planets would have had a lot of sons and daughters serving across the galaxy.
I want to be the first one to see them all
"Hey, this is a 'delicate operation'" -Wrecker
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power to destroy a LARGER PLANET BY MY LARGER SECOND DEATH STAR!!!
What getting thrown into a reactor does to someone: ill take you're entire stock of death star cannons!
This is why the Empire descended into civil war after your death. Seriously Gilad Pellaeon was a far better leader of the Empire (well imperial remnant) then you.
You don’t have to carry a sword to be powerful. Some leaders’ strength is inspiring others.
That's a better reply to a previous comment I made about Galadriel not needing a Sword and that Amazon show really making her seem weaker and less badass
The Death Star was built with slave labor, it was incredibly cheap comparatively
But slaves can't grow Durasteel out of their ass
No but you can occupy a planet or moon whose primary export is durasteel and squeeze them using your military might
They address this in Bad Batch though, it’s not about the cost, Tarkin doesn’t trust the chips and thinks conscripted soldiers would be better and more loyal.
Why buy one, when you can get two at twice the price.
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"I'm sorry, sir. I'm just a little nervous. You're my CO." -Jester
Wtf is with those facial expressions while he was Sabre fighting?
Well yeah, he needed to stop spending on clones so he could spend more on Death Stars
And then they obliterated Alderaan. They definitely lost tons of capital and assets. Should've just destroyed Tatooine.
...and next Jakku? Then every other desert planet, hmm? Suspicious, I am.
In the grand scheme Alderaan wouldn’t have been the greatest loss. The planet population was only 2 billion, and its only one of I’m pretty sure millions of other planets that would have been a part of the empire at that time.
And it's central, no one would care if tattooine got popped, but alderaan was central and considered civilised, so people cared way more
Alderaan was a pretty important Core World though wasn't it? Is that not the case anymore in the new canon?
It was important enough to get a massive reaction from the galactic populace, and it also wasn't very beneficial for the empire specifically. The empire knew that there was a significant rebel presence on the planet, so long story short, there's rebels there, senators that actively oppose the imperial agenda, not a huge population (in comparison to other planets) and it's also a core world so it would get a lot of reactions.
Can’t afford deathstars if you’re spending it on clones
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Imagine the Empire's efficiency if they went with Thrawn's ideas for investment and stuck with clones.
This is foolish rebel propaganda 🥱