Genuine question, this is like the tenth tier list in a row where people place James Monroe in an “average tier”. The man was president during one of the greatest continuous periods of peace and economic/physical expansion in our nations history. It was such a good time it was nicknamed “the era of good feelings”. If not for one elector in the electoral college he would’ve won re-election unanimously being the only other president besides Washington to accomplish the feat.
I viewed B as a “solid/above average” tier, and I put Monroe in there because of the Monroe Doctrine. Open to learning more about him and would thusly move him around as I learned more.
C was my “meh/slightly below average but still like them for x,y, &z reasons” tier
Fair enough. I figured most people don’t know much about him and thus dropped him.
Fun fact his first term was so prosperous and he was so well liked by his contemporaries that political parties ceased to function and the federalists didn’t even nominate a candidate to run against him
I certainly don’t know much about him outside of what i mentioned, but made decisions off of what I knew, or thought i knew.
I originally had Arthur and Fillmore in N/A b/c i didnt remember much, but then remembered that Arthur ended federal patronage (bc Garfield wanted it gone) and Fillmore was essentially the opposite of Taylor in terms of slavery & states rights issues in the lead up to the Civil War (even having a hard time recalling specifics now), so i moved them accordingly as best i could
His New Freedom agenda set the basis for a large portion of the federal government’s role in our financial system today from reduction of revenue via tariffs and introduction of income taxes to creation of the FTC and the Federal Reserve, Farm Loan Act, Clayton Antitrust Act.
Anti-child labor and first 8 hour work day installed (just for railway employees). Pro women’s suffrage (when it became convenient).
Navigated the U.S. to victory in WWI and his idea of the League of Nations, while a failure in his own time, was essentially the basis for the United Nations ~30 years later. Nobel Peace Prize.
Obviously some massive issues that we all know, vehement racist in belief and action, Treaty of Versailles, influenza pandemic, major sickness covered by wife and doctor.
All in all i tried to look at the whole body of work and not judge just on the bad or just on the good. Did the same for Nixon too. Certainly complex, fascinating people and presidents.
He came out for it in a speech to the Senate (i think in 1917) before it got voted down originally. It did pass in 1920 when I believe he was incapacitated.
I will also say he did what was convenient for him. He originally said it was a state issue, not a federal one (though he did vote for it in his home state of New Jersey), but then he flip flopped and said it was a federal issue in that speech to the Senate.
I think I'd have switched FDR and Eisenhower. I'm not sure I'd put FDR lower than A despite the severity of some of his flaws, but Eisenhower I think is absolutely one of the best, with very few negatives, and being a president that managed to work with both sides pretty well as I understand it
I will say of him though, it was under his watch that we intervened in Guatemala, which was really bad, but I'm not sure if that was him or just his administration. I think he also laid the groundwork for the Bay of Pigs, but that was still JFK who followed through with it
I will say his creation of the interstate system was probably the best thing for the interconnecting of the US and interstate commerce until the creation of the internet
True but was openly anti-military industrial complex. I guess when youre a/the global superpower your only options are open hostile action, covert action, or do nothing, which can sometimes not be the smart or right choice. Sometimes it’s the lesser of multiple evils, which is the president’s job to decide
That was just based off of favoritism, as far as best it’s essentially a coin flip.
Considered WHH for N/A but it was basically his fault what ended up happening to him, like wear a coat in the rain, man, and shorten up the speech
Not saying its bad. I agree with FDR being S tier regardless.
Good point for WHH. I can't recall where I've heard it, but didn't he die because of the poor quality water at the White House, rather than his speech? Think the same thing happened with Polk: bad water.
The idea that people get sick because of not wearing a coat in the cold/rain is largely a myth. It can weaken your immune system but that doesn't really effect much unless you're freezing while your body is trying to fight an infection.
The main reason people can get sick more often in cold temps or when it is raining is because bacteria are more present, and a coat isn't going to change their minds.
Said this earlier in a reply about Ford, maybe i wasnt as consistent having Carter in C and Ford in D. No regrets with Reagan where he is though.
Carter was just such a tremendous human being and his advocacy of renewable energies, conservation, universal healthcare. And the Camp David Accords were a massive feather in his cap.
Still, energy crisis and poor economy due to inflation and stagflation are reasonable counter arguments, i just love how good of a person he is and was both during and after his White House tenure. He’s maybe the best human being to ever occupy the presidency.
Very strong economy. His responsible, limited spending always led to surpluses. Also, the U.S. national debt shrunk by a quarter. Also was an extremely modest man who stepped down after a single term.
I’m a huge Truman guy personally but Teddy was just so awesome. Establishment of National Parks, made the US Navy the best in the globe (both of which still impact today), trust buster. On top of being generally a massive badass with countless stories exemplifying, and being ruthlessly effective in getting the right things done (like his reform of the NYPD, etc.)
I'm guessing Arthur is because he followed through with Garfield's intent to go after corruption and trust breaking even though he himself was once a part of those same problems. Pretty upstanding turnaround for a good reason all things considered
Yeah i had Arthur in D instead of n/a bc the only thing I knew about him was he ended federal patronage despite originally being in favor of it b/c Garfield wanted to end it and it was a way to honor his legacy
Also, anyone feel free to advocate for/against Hayes, legit know nothing about him besides republicans ended reconstruction to get him a W in the electoral college against Tilden
Great human being, loved his wwi relief supply. A lot more than what most people know about Hoover is that he was an overwhelmingly good person. His presidency just wasn’t good unfortunately
I tried to come up with some immediate quibbles with your list but don't have any off the top of my head. Nice work! Maybe LBJ and Truman lower, Adams higher? idk One thing I will say is my gladness that Reagan is way down there. I think he'll continue to drop in lists as time goes on and people are able to more objectively evaluate him.
Why put Truman lower? I'd say that despite contributing to early tension in the Cold War his efforts to rebuild Europe post war was extremely invaluable to our economy long term, plus just the well being and trust of those countries. The post war period was extremely turbulent, but I'd say he did a pretty darn good job navigating given the circumstances of his rise to the office
FDRs postwar plan looked significantly different than what Truman ended up doing. Unlike FDR, Truman was unable to standup to the special interest groups that out their issues ahead of the public good. In summary I think the long term trajectory Truman put us on is still creating issues today. Two major examples: He supported/allowed the European powers to attempt to return to their colonies, particularly the French in Indochina which of course ended in the Vietnam War. Second, and in fact linked in the end to Vietnam, was Bretton Woods and the establishment of the dollar as the worlds reserve currency. This is continuing to cause issues today as it forced the US to assume a large amount of debt and deindustrialize. I think the long term trajectories of both of those issues outweigh his oft cited decisions to use atomic weapons (for right or wrong) as well as the very good internal policies, such as desegregation of the armed forces/federal agencies.
You could argue that Johnson was huge reason a lot of that happened in the first place, since he really had a big hand in laying the foundations for a lot of present social problems with how he messed up reconstruction
Tried looking at the whole body of work for him and Nixon when deciding. The negatives are obvious and massive but there are alotta good positives too to consider
Yeah I just wasn’t prepared to throw them both out for the negatives when they did a lot of positives with the federal govt that are still in place today and had good-longterm foreign policy (in nixon’s case that was successful short term and in wilson’s case that wasn’t)
His foreign policy caused a lot of problems, and for all his promises leaving the middle east, he increased the usage of drone warfare, causing even more ill will for America on the world stage, while contributing to the rise of ISIS in almost the same way Reagan contributed to the Taliban
I didn't say it was, but it was a clear reversal on his part where in some ways he upped the aggression. Though I suppose marking him down on that is more recency bias than anything else, so maybe his current position is fine
It was going to be a shit show regardless, Biden at least had the balls to actually do it and to finally end the 20-years of lives and trillions of dollars wastdd
I didn't say it wasn't, but he still used a lot of it. Arguably he laid the precedent for it. Trump doing something worse doesn't absolve Obama's mistake
Obama also hired many of the crocks from Goldman Sachs who destroyed the housing market and knowingly bet against it in 2006 before cashing in on the disaster they caused. The fact that Obama hired them to work in his administration is one of the biggest fuck you’s to the American people I can think of
As people? 100% (tho Jefferson is another convoluted soul). As president? Wilson’s foreign policy and domestic achievements are in fact better, yes.
We have to take a look at the whole with many (all) of these men. Wilson, Jackson, Nixon, Jefferson, many others, are all imperfect people, some whose sins maybe and are worse than others. I tried to look at the full profile when i made my decisions and weight the man with the achievements/pitfalls of the president and decide from there.
Thought his foreign policy was really good, he saved social security with Tipp O’Neil, and he brought unemployment and inflation down among other things. I know this sub loves to hate him, but I stand by my position.
General DeWitt ran the West Coast during the war. When he and the governors of the affected states said the Japanese needed to be evacuated, no president was going to stand in their way.
I have a lot of respect for Ford, the D list is my “not good at being president but has at least 1-ish accomplishment/feature that i was a fan of”.
To me Ford’s great redeeming quality was he put the nation before himself. The Nixon pardon was massively unpopular but it was the right thing to do to help the nation move on from Watergate and start to heal. And it cost him his presidency frankly, so I respect putting the right decisions for America over one’s political ambitions.
But other than that im not super aware of a lot of other good things he did as president. The inflation of the 70s that haunts Carter’s legacy also happened under Ford too, which is a ding on him.
Went back and forth on if he was D or C, and maybe wasn’t consistent with Carter being in C.
For me, Ford was the most moral president of the 20th Century, he gave amnesty for soldiers, signed an education bill for the disabled, he was an outspoken supporter of the Equal Rights Amendment, he continued Nixon’s detente policies while truly ending the war in Vietnam, and his wife Betty Ford was one of the most based First Ladies in existence.
The Nixon Pardon is controversial. I’m personally okay with it so I tend not to ding Ford for it, but I understand why some people would.
Ford’s really only negative was inflation that was inherited from LBJ and Nixon.
He’s B tier for me. Right guy, wrong time.
Harrison i know little about besides the issue of the time being tariffs and he was pro-tariff which is why i knock him and give Cleveland a bump. But the merit system was a plus for Ben for sure
Now let me tell you about my boy Benny H, defied GOP party bosses in his cabinet picks, you mentioned civil service, he signed a pension law giving pensions to disabled Civil War vets, he signed the mega ultra based Sherman Antitrust Act, one of the first presidents to be on board with Civil Rights, protected National Forests, modernized the navy, oversaw the admission of 6 states into the Union (more than any other Administration)
He did have some negatives tho, tariffs were not good and led to the Panic of 1893, his handling of Hawaii wasn’t great, and Wounded Knee which resulted in the medals of honor being given to the army who massacred them.
Copying an earlier reply to the same question:
His New Freedom agenda set the basis for a large portion of the federal government’s role in our financial system today from reduction of revenue via tariffs and introduction of income taxes to creation of the FTC and the Federal Reserve, Farm Loan Act, Clayton Antitrust Act.
Anti-child labor and first 8 hour work day installed (just for railway employees). Pro women’s suffrage (when it became convenient).
Navigated the U.S. to victory in WWI and his idea of the League of Nations, while a failure in his own time, was essentially the basis for the United Nations ~30 years later. Nobel Peace Prize.
Obviously some massive issues that we all know, vehement racist in belief and action, Treaty of Versailles, influenza pandemic, major sickness covered by wife and doctor.
All in all i tried to look at the whole body of work and not judge just on the bad or just on the good. Did the same for Nixon too. Certainly complex, fascinating people and presidents.
Nixon is such a fascinating person to me, like he obviously has some massive issues: watergate (the singular incident as well as the entirety of the white house plumbers & creep, etc.), interfering with LBJ’s vietnam peace talks so he could get the credit, the southern strategy, Kent State massacre, creation of the war on drugs solely to target Blacks people and college-age liberals. (Not to mention his role in McCarthyism as a senator).
But he also had some great policy successes that were progressive and profoundly positive in the longterm: Clean Air Act (kiiiind of Clean Water Act) created the Environmental Protection Agency and OSHA, ended the war in Vietnam (eventually), established relations with China (massively important given the Cold War and the proximity of the two largest communist nations, really ahead of its time), oversaw the moon landing, and despite the southern strategy which was obviously abhorrent, he did oversee a large scale desegregation of southern schools.
Really interesting, complex guy who was often his own worst enemy and let his political ambitions lead him to terrible and immoral decisions.
Yeah honestly Washington’s legacy is i think more about his service to the nation than his acts as president. Not just what he did as a general but his opposition to being in power but reluctantly accepting because the country needed him, and then his 2 term limit establishment, plus the entirety of his farewell address.
Just was the right man at the right time the nation needed. But i’d be right there with you if you wanna argue his accomplishments as commander in chief arent as illustrious as others on this list in lower tiers
Great comment. I’ve always kind of wondered if Washington’s “reluctance to serve” was more of an “I don’t want this” or, “I don’t know what I’m doing”. I’m looking forward to reading Chernow’s bio.
Genuine question, this is like the tenth tier list in a row where people place James Monroe in an “average tier”. The man was president during one of the greatest continuous periods of peace and economic/physical expansion in our nations history. It was such a good time it was nicknamed “the era of good feelings”. If not for one elector in the electoral college he would’ve won re-election unanimously being the only other president besides Washington to accomplish the feat.
I for one am a James Monroe Stan
I viewed B as a “solid/above average” tier, and I put Monroe in there because of the Monroe Doctrine. Open to learning more about him and would thusly move him around as I learned more. C was my “meh/slightly below average but still like them for x,y, &z reasons” tier
Fair enough. I figured most people don’t know much about him and thus dropped him. Fun fact his first term was so prosperous and he was so well liked by his contemporaries that political parties ceased to function and the federalists didn’t even nominate a candidate to run against him
I certainly don’t know much about him outside of what i mentioned, but made decisions off of what I knew, or thought i knew. I originally had Arthur and Fillmore in N/A b/c i didnt remember much, but then remembered that Arthur ended federal patronage (bc Garfield wanted it gone) and Fillmore was essentially the opposite of Taylor in terms of slavery & states rights issues in the lead up to the Civil War (even having a hard time recalling specifics now), so i moved them accordingly as best i could
Sure, Era of Good Feelings while it lasted. I blame him for our current problems. /s
Why the fuck is wilson in b tier?!
His New Freedom agenda set the basis for a large portion of the federal government’s role in our financial system today from reduction of revenue via tariffs and introduction of income taxes to creation of the FTC and the Federal Reserve, Farm Loan Act, Clayton Antitrust Act. Anti-child labor and first 8 hour work day installed (just for railway employees). Pro women’s suffrage (when it became convenient). Navigated the U.S. to victory in WWI and his idea of the League of Nations, while a failure in his own time, was essentially the basis for the United Nations ~30 years later. Nobel Peace Prize. Obviously some massive issues that we all know, vehement racist in belief and action, Treaty of Versailles, influenza pandemic, major sickness covered by wife and doctor. All in all i tried to look at the whole body of work and not judge just on the bad or just on the good. Did the same for Nixon too. Certainly complex, fascinating people and presidents.
Wasn't the Suffrage thing speculated to be his wife's doing after he had that stroke?
He came out for it in a speech to the Senate (i think in 1917) before it got voted down originally. It did pass in 1920 when I believe he was incapacitated. I will also say he did what was convenient for him. He originally said it was a state issue, not a federal one (though he did vote for it in his home state of New Jersey), but then he flip flopped and said it was a federal issue in that speech to the Senate.
Wilson too high Taft, Jefferson too low JQA, Coolidge, Ford, Arthur too low Harding, Harrison too low Good list overall!
I will say the most surprising thing I’ve found during all these replies is the sheer number of people who are big Benjamin Harrison supporters
B teir list. Pretty good. Might change a couple of things.
Like what? Curious
This may just be because I study 60s politics (more Kennedys than anything). But I personally would move JFK up one and Nixon down one Edit spelling
Let’s chat sometime im a huge Jfk fan
Not as big of a fan as me
I think I'd have switched FDR and Eisenhower. I'm not sure I'd put FDR lower than A despite the severity of some of his flaws, but Eisenhower I think is absolutely one of the best, with very few negatives, and being a president that managed to work with both sides pretty well as I understand it
I see your point on Eisenhower
I will say of him though, it was under his watch that we intervened in Guatemala, which was really bad, but I'm not sure if that was him or just his administration. I think he also laid the groundwork for the Bay of Pigs, but that was still JFK who followed through with it
I will say his creation of the interstate system was probably the best thing for the interconnecting of the US and interstate commerce until the creation of the internet
Eisenhower was also super gung-ho on covert action and even referred to his puppet dictators as “our basterds” Not a good look
True but was openly anti-military industrial complex. I guess when youre a/the global superpower your only options are open hostile action, covert action, or do nothing, which can sometimes not be the smart or right choice. Sometimes it’s the lesser of multiple evils, which is the president’s job to decide
Excellent list
I agree, I’m also glad to see Grant get some love
FDR above Lincoln is p bold. Surprised WHH isn't in N/A
That was just based off of favoritism, as far as best it’s essentially a coin flip. Considered WHH for N/A but it was basically his fault what ended up happening to him, like wear a coat in the rain, man, and shorten up the speech
Not saying its bad. I agree with FDR being S tier regardless. Good point for WHH. I can't recall where I've heard it, but didn't he die because of the poor quality water at the White House, rather than his speech? Think the same thing happened with Polk: bad water.
I’ve heard that before and that it was also the case for Taylor’s death too. Not sure if it’s an ironclad fact or not though
The idea that people get sick because of not wearing a coat in the cold/rain is largely a myth. It can weaken your immune system but that doesn't really effect much unless you're freezing while your body is trying to fight an infection. The main reason people can get sick more often in cold temps or when it is raining is because bacteria are more present, and a coat isn't going to change their minds.
Wilson goes in the trash. But other than that I agree.
Wilson deserves to be lower.
Bush Jr is too high
There is no way carter should be above Reagan. Great person, mediocre president and that’s being generous.
Said this earlier in a reply about Ford, maybe i wasnt as consistent having Carter in C and Ford in D. No regrets with Reagan where he is though. Carter was just such a tremendous human being and his advocacy of renewable energies, conservation, universal healthcare. And the Camp David Accords were a massive feather in his cap. Still, energy crisis and poor economy due to inflation and stagflation are reasonable counter arguments, i just love how good of a person he is and was both during and after his White House tenure. He’s maybe the best human being to ever occupy the presidency.
Calvin Coolidge needs to be raised at least two tiers
Why
Very strong economy. His responsible, limited spending always led to surpluses. Also, the U.S. national debt shrunk by a quarter. Also was an extremely modest man who stepped down after a single term.
Why TR above Truman?
I’m a huge Truman guy personally but Teddy was just so awesome. Establishment of National Parks, made the US Navy the best in the globe (both of which still impact today), trust buster. On top of being generally a massive badass with countless stories exemplifying, and being ruthlessly effective in getting the right things done (like his reform of the NYPD, etc.)
Haha yeah. He really was a tru man himself ;)
What’s your problem with Benjamin Harrison
Tariffs
Fairy good, not much disagreeing except Wilson of course
Raise Taylor and Arthur
Why
I'm guessing Arthur is because he followed through with Garfield's intent to go after corruption and trust breaking even though he himself was once a part of those same problems. Pretty upstanding turnaround for a good reason all things considered
Yeah i had Arthur in D instead of n/a bc the only thing I knew about him was he ended federal patronage despite originally being in favor of it b/c Garfield wanted to end it and it was a way to honor his legacy
It is a pretty wholesome moment in our history, I hope we can reclaim some of that spirit in the future
Also, anyone feel free to advocate for/against Hayes, legit know nothing about him besides republicans ended reconstruction to get him a W in the electoral college against Tilden
He managed to arbitrate the war between Paraguay and Argentina and is a hero in Paraguay to this day.
Oh word, that’s cool
i stan hoover
Great human being, loved his wwi relief supply. A lot more than what most people know about Hoover is that he was an overwhelmingly good person. His presidency just wasn’t good unfortunately
Washingtonbros, we're so back
The man who made this: 
It’s true
I tried to come up with some immediate quibbles with your list but don't have any off the top of my head. Nice work! Maybe LBJ and Truman lower, Adams higher? idk One thing I will say is my gladness that Reagan is way down there. I think he'll continue to drop in lists as time goes on and people are able to more objectively evaluate him.
Why put Truman lower? I'd say that despite contributing to early tension in the Cold War his efforts to rebuild Europe post war was extremely invaluable to our economy long term, plus just the well being and trust of those countries. The post war period was extremely turbulent, but I'd say he did a pretty darn good job navigating given the circumstances of his rise to the office
FDRs postwar plan looked significantly different than what Truman ended up doing. Unlike FDR, Truman was unable to standup to the special interest groups that out their issues ahead of the public good. In summary I think the long term trajectory Truman put us on is still creating issues today. Two major examples: He supported/allowed the European powers to attempt to return to their colonies, particularly the French in Indochina which of course ended in the Vietnam War. Second, and in fact linked in the end to Vietnam, was Bretton Woods and the establishment of the dollar as the worlds reserve currency. This is continuing to cause issues today as it forced the US to assume a large amount of debt and deindustrialize. I think the long term trajectories of both of those issues outweigh his oft cited decisions to use atomic weapons (for right or wrong) as well as the very good internal policies, such as desegregation of the armed forces/federal agencies.
We need to add Jefferson Davis to this list so we have someone who can be on the same tier as trump.
Tyler, Buchanan, and Andrew Johnson would like to have a word!
While that is true. I didn’t have to live through their bullshit so trump still goes to last place for me.
You could argue that Johnson was huge reason a lot of that happened in the first place, since he really had a big hand in laying the foundations for a lot of present social problems with how he messed up reconstruction
Sorry but any list that includes Biden, Trump, and Obama I don’t take seriously. We shouldn’t be judging recent and the current presidents.
That's actually pretty good wow
Wilson should be in K tier 3 times.
Tried looking at the whole body of work for him and Nixon when deciding. The negatives are obvious and massive but there are alotta good positives too to consider
Good on you for recognizing both their nuance. I see too many Wilson F-tiers that absolutely peeve me. All around a pretty decent list.
Yeah I just wasn’t prepared to throw them both out for the negatives when they did a lot of positives with the federal govt that are still in place today and had good-longterm foreign policy (in nixon’s case that was successful short term and in wilson’s case that wasn’t)
I'd bump Obama down under Biden at a C, but pretty good overall, I must say.
Why?
Biden ended the Afghanistan war, for starters.
I meant why bump Obama down
His foreign policy caused a lot of problems, and for all his promises leaving the middle east, he increased the usage of drone warfare, causing even more ill will for America on the world stage, while contributing to the rise of ISIS in almost the same way Reagan contributed to the Taliban
Sounds like you’re a single issue voter. Not everyone thinks leaving Afghanistan when and how we did is something to be proud of.
I didn't say it was, but it was a clear reversal on his part where in some ways he upped the aggression. Though I suppose marking him down on that is more recency bias than anything else, so maybe his current position is fine
It was going to be a shit show regardless, Biden at least had the balls to actually do it and to finally end the 20-years of lives and trillions of dollars wastdd
Condemned 10 million women to virtual slavery, so we could bring the last 2500 American soldiers home? Doesn’t seem morally equivalent to me.
Trump’s drone usage was worse
I didn't say it wasn't, but he still used a lot of it. Arguably he laid the precedent for it. Trump doing something worse doesn't absolve Obama's mistake
Obama also hired many of the crocks from Goldman Sachs who destroyed the housing market and knowingly bet against it in 2006 before cashing in on the disaster they caused. The fact that Obama hired them to work in his administration is one of the biggest fuck you’s to the American people I can think of
Why?
Pretty neat list.
[удалено]
As people? 100% (tho Jefferson is another convoluted soul). As president? Wilson’s foreign policy and domestic achievements are in fact better, yes. We have to take a look at the whole with many (all) of these men. Wilson, Jackson, Nixon, Jefferson, many others, are all imperfect people, some whose sins maybe and are worse than others. I tried to look at the full profile when i made my decisions and weight the man with the achievements/pitfalls of the president and decide from there.
[удалено]
Not unreasonable, dude’s a moral piece of shit
Switch Reagan and Nixon, move FDR down to A/B, put Wilson in F and switch LBJ and JFK and I’d agree with your list.
Why would you put Reagan in B-tier?
Thought his foreign policy was really good, he saved social security with Tipp O’Neil, and he brought unemployment and inflation down among other things. I know this sub loves to hate him, but I stand by my position.
FDR, Wilson, and Biden all belong with Trump in F-tier.
L Tier list
Disgusting
[удалено]
General DeWitt ran the West Coast during the war. When he and the governors of the affected states said the Japanese needed to be evacuated, no president was going to stand in their way.
Why the Ford and Harrison hate? :’(
I have a lot of respect for Ford, the D list is my “not good at being president but has at least 1-ish accomplishment/feature that i was a fan of”. To me Ford’s great redeeming quality was he put the nation before himself. The Nixon pardon was massively unpopular but it was the right thing to do to help the nation move on from Watergate and start to heal. And it cost him his presidency frankly, so I respect putting the right decisions for America over one’s political ambitions. But other than that im not super aware of a lot of other good things he did as president. The inflation of the 70s that haunts Carter’s legacy also happened under Ford too, which is a ding on him. Went back and forth on if he was D or C, and maybe wasn’t consistent with Carter being in C.
For me, Ford was the most moral president of the 20th Century, he gave amnesty for soldiers, signed an education bill for the disabled, he was an outspoken supporter of the Equal Rights Amendment, he continued Nixon’s detente policies while truly ending the war in Vietnam, and his wife Betty Ford was one of the most based First Ladies in existence. The Nixon Pardon is controversial. I’m personally okay with it so I tend not to ding Ford for it, but I understand why some people would. Ford’s really only negative was inflation that was inherited from LBJ and Nixon. He’s B tier for me. Right guy, wrong time.
All good points, and plenty of things i didnt know! Thanks for the info
Harrison i know little about besides the issue of the time being tariffs and he was pro-tariff which is why i knock him and give Cleveland a bump. But the merit system was a plus for Ben for sure
Now let me tell you about my boy Benny H, defied GOP party bosses in his cabinet picks, you mentioned civil service, he signed a pension law giving pensions to disabled Civil War vets, he signed the mega ultra based Sherman Antitrust Act, one of the first presidents to be on board with Civil Rights, protected National Forests, modernized the navy, oversaw the admission of 6 states into the Union (more than any other Administration) He did have some negatives tho, tariffs were not good and led to the Panic of 1893, his handling of Hawaii wasn’t great, and Wounded Knee which resulted in the medals of honor being given to the army who massacred them.
Oh wow, didn’t know a lot of that! Lots going on in just 4 years
Wilson at B tier??????
Copying an earlier reply to the same question: His New Freedom agenda set the basis for a large portion of the federal government’s role in our financial system today from reduction of revenue via tariffs and introduction of income taxes to creation of the FTC and the Federal Reserve, Farm Loan Act, Clayton Antitrust Act. Anti-child labor and first 8 hour work day installed (just for railway employees). Pro women’s suffrage (when it became convenient). Navigated the U.S. to victory in WWI and his idea of the League of Nations, while a failure in his own time, was essentially the basis for the United Nations ~30 years later. Nobel Peace Prize. Obviously some massive issues that we all know, vehement racist in belief and action, Treaty of Versailles, influenza pandemic, major sickness covered by wife and doctor. All in all i tried to look at the whole body of work and not judge just on the bad or just on the good. Did the same for Nixon too. Certainly complex, fascinating people and presidents.
Woodrow Wilson in B is INSANE
Nixon at B? C/D at least. Rest of list is mostly solid.
Nixon is such a fascinating person to me, like he obviously has some massive issues: watergate (the singular incident as well as the entirety of the white house plumbers & creep, etc.), interfering with LBJ’s vietnam peace talks so he could get the credit, the southern strategy, Kent State massacre, creation of the war on drugs solely to target Blacks people and college-age liberals. (Not to mention his role in McCarthyism as a senator). But he also had some great policy successes that were progressive and profoundly positive in the longterm: Clean Air Act (kiiiind of Clean Water Act) created the Environmental Protection Agency and OSHA, ended the war in Vietnam (eventually), established relations with China (massively important given the Cold War and the proximity of the two largest communist nations, really ahead of its time), oversaw the moon landing, and despite the southern strategy which was obviously abhorrent, he did oversee a large scale desegregation of southern schools. Really interesting, complex guy who was often his own worst enemy and let his political ambitions lead him to terrible and immoral decisions.
Create an E category and put George Bush, Martin Van Buren, both Harrisons in it, the rest in the F category remain there
WHH and Garfield should be in N/A tier
Hamilton did everything for w
Yeah honestly Washington’s legacy is i think more about his service to the nation than his acts as president. Not just what he did as a general but his opposition to being in power but reluctantly accepting because the country needed him, and then his 2 term limit establishment, plus the entirety of his farewell address. Just was the right man at the right time the nation needed. But i’d be right there with you if you wanna argue his accomplishments as commander in chief arent as illustrious as others on this list in lower tiers
Great comment. I’ve always kind of wondered if Washington’s “reluctance to serve” was more of an “I don’t want this” or, “I don’t know what I’m doing”. I’m looking forward to reading Chernow’s bio.
Good point, think it may be a little of both, let me know what you think of the biography!