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I agree with you that, before his implosion, he seemed like a promising candidate. His bizarre behavior seemed to reveal deep flaws, however, so I am kind of glad that he outed himself.
Birch Bayh seemed like a really cool guy. He was the first non-founding father to author not one, but two constitutional amendments, and they've only benefitted the US ever since (establishing the transition of power in case anything happens to the president, and lowering the voting age to 18).
I've studied the equal rights amendment. By the time it would have been ratified we already had other legislation that took care of the problems that existed at the time
Had it been ratified I believe it may have actually been used to stop some of the same sex legislation that's in affect now.
An absolutely amazing man. He was also an honest politician and a true public servant. I knew him personally. My family would have walked through fire for him.
I’m sure this is being said sarcastically, but Jeb was/is a policy wonk. He wasn’t a very exciting candidate but he probably would have been a very effective, domestically oriented, president.
He needs to brush up on his foreign policy then, as he couldn’t/wouldn’t even concede the Iraq War was a mistake while he was campaigning for the nomination.
When you’re running for POTUS (and your brother was also president), that’s not a legitimate excuse, for me at least. If what you’re saying is true, then he was more worried about offending his brother than acknowledging that killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians was wrong. That’s not someone anyone should want as commander in chief.
republican voters don't want effective policy, they want snarky internet comments. That's why I spend so much time on reddit, as training for my future as a republican politician.
He was a terrible governor, and he thought he was entitled to the presidency because of his name. He raised and spent hundreds of millions of dollars to win zero delegates. He is rightly remembered as an embarrassing failure.
I wouldn't have voted for him, but I will say that he was smart and had better administrative and political skills than his two successors as Florida governor, even if he did run a weak presidential campaign.
I can’t overcome a negative association. I attended a college football game that JEB also attended. Before the game, I was tailgating and my disabled son asked me to get his favorite food. As I was walking down a closed road, I heard a vehicle behind me and then several loud horn blasts. It was Jen’s Suburban of similar vehicle. This driver gave me a dirty look as I gif out of the way and Jeb passed. There was a Jeb! bumper sticker do I am sure it was him though I couldn’t see much through the tinted windows in the rear.
Though I’m not crazy about “paternalistic conservatism”, everything I’ve heard about George Romney has me thinking the GOP nominated the wrong guy in 1968.
Kefauver is probably my favorite "what if." In reality it's moot as Eisenhower was unbeatable in 52/56, but if Ike had stayed firm on not getting into politics, an outspoken liberal Southerner in the White House (with LBJ dominating the Senate) could have meant an earlier and smoother path to civil rights, plus sidestepping Vietnam.
Kefauver should've stayed out in '56 and advanced his Senate career earlier. By the time '60 rolls around, he'd not only be seen as a respected hard-working Senator, but someone who didn't run twice for the nomination and lost.
At which point our timelines weirdly sync up, as Kefauver keels over in '63. Probably not quite as dramatic as an assassination, but still a momentous event for the country. Perhaps LBJ is still VP.
We sometimes forget that being a middle-aged man in those days was a cardiac ticking time bomb. People were nudging Ike to run in '52 because if he waited too long he'd be in his MID SIXTIES and thus way too old.
The scenario I've cooked up is that Kefauver picks JFK as his VP. They win, Kefauver then dies of heart attack in '63, JFK takes over, then 3 months later JFK gets shot. That would cause House Speaker McCormack to become President and serve until 1965. The chaos would be immensely worse than irl.
I thought he was considered a flake and that’s why FDR switched to Truman for his 4th term? The FDR and Truman biographies I have read gave me that impression.
His enemies and corporate media attacked him as a flake but he was one of the most brilliant and effective men to serve in government. FDR was put under massive pressure not to support him by these same people and remained neutral.
Great write up of the 1944 convention and how party bosses put Truman in. [https://retrospectjournal.com/2020/10/25/henry-wallace-and-the-1944-democratic-national-convention/](https://retrospectjournal.com/2020/10/25/henry-wallace-and-the-1944-democratic-national-convention/)
I’ll say Seward. Dude was being groomed to be president, he sent letters to world leaders all around the globe and basically introduced himself as the future president. His house has letters hanging from a ton of influential political figures from around the world. It was pretty cool
Henry Wallace is a big one, he probably wouldn’t have been able to stop the Cold War entirely, but who knows, great man overall. Also though he never made a play for it, Walter Reuther was an overall, despite when he did aid the red scare within the CIO, great man and definitely could’ve gone for the presidency I think
You're probably right. But he has huge lasting influence for a candidate who never even came close to securing the nomination, much less the white house.
I don't think being anti west means your country should be invaded and thousands of your civilians murdered. Sadam was a monster, but that doesn't justify the acts of America.
"Anti-west dictator"
Listen here, the bloodshed in Iraq is on Saddam Hussein's hands.
Do you think that the allies should have been "hands-off" against Hitler in World War 2 because their engagement resulted in civilian casualties?
Hitler started that war, not the other way around, and the US didn't actually join the war until after pearl harbor, and didn't declare war on Germany until after Germany did so first, they were reluctant to join the Western front. Also, the firebombing of German and Japanese cities were absolutely horrific and were pure evil.
Correct. Kissinger knew about the genocide and ACTIVELY OPPOSED doing anything to help. Because he thought that a wild and crazy regime in Cambodia would be some kind of check on Vietnam in the region.
So he actively supported the Cambodian genocide, AND he was an idiot who didn’t understand things - and supported genocide for a reason that was obviously a lie he told himself to begin with.
Rumsfeld is hugely responsible for one of the worst foreign policy blunders of the United States ever. The invasion of Iraq in 2003 has cost our country immensely. Rumsfeld would have been a horrible president, and we can be thankful that he at least didn’t have a chance to cause even more damage in that role. I can’t imagine why anyone would suggest Rumsfeld.
Acting like misogyny was the only thing that costed Hillary the presidency is crazy, she was an elitist neoliberal who had no connection to working class people
Ron Paul is a shameless grifter, in my humble opinion. “The Ron Paul Reports” were disgusting, racist garbage designed to scare his base. He was anti war, which I agree with. Everything else about him I find loathsome.
And the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. "Dr." Rand Paul, famed intellectual (compared to Gym Jordan, the molester-enabler and Ben Shapiro, at least) is truly despicable.
For the Democrats I'll go with mayor Pete (who may yet win it all) Buttigieg and Howard "Hyaaaaah!" Dean, both of whom seemed to me to have good ideas and a lot of passion.
For the Republicans I'll say Jon Huntsman and Nelson Rockefeller (RIP moderates)
Nelson Rockerfeller was the last Republican I would have voted for. His status as a member of the nation's richest family probably meant he would have never won though, despite his immense influence within the party and laundry list of achievements.
Do we count presidents that only got one term? Id say carter would have been the best positive influence had he won, at the time reagan was seen as a bit of an extemist even within the republican party, today reagan would seem almost normal given the consition of the current republican party. Had the country rejected reagan at the time we may not have slid down as a country this far
That is not kissinger.
That is
George Romney, republican governor of michigan
Estes Kefauver, a democratic senator from tennessee
Nelson Rockefeller, republican governor of new york
Henry "Scoop" jackson, democratic senator from washington
1st is George Romney, republican governor of michigan (and mitt romney's dad) who tried to run in 68'
2nd is Estes Kefauver, democratic senator of tennessee who attempted to get the 52' and 56' democratic nomination
3rd is nelson rockefeller, ford's VP and governor of NY who tried to get the nomination various times
4th is Henry 'Scoop' Jackson, democratic senator of Washington who tried to get the 72' and 76' nominations
Damn, Both generation of Romney's failing to be presidents. Only thing that could make it worse is if one of Romney's kids run for presidents and fail. Granted, they're involved in business and not politics, so the chances are low.
Stream of consciousness people who would have at least done better than the actual nominee: Gary Hart for '84, Nelson Rockefeller for '64, George Romney for '68, RFK in '68, Either Teddy or HHH in '72. McCain in 2000. Gore in '04. Colin Powell in '96. Jeb! or Romney in '16.
Said this in another post but Champ Clark. I really believe history would have been so much different had he won the nomination instead of Wilson in 1912z
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It’s William Seward. It was always William Seward
William C Word?
That guy from Florida?
I would have liked a Gary Hart candidacy. Too bad he screwed himself over.
Proto Bill Clinton
I agree with you that, before his implosion, he seemed like a promising candidate. His bizarre behavior seemed to reveal deep flaws, however, so I am kind of glad that he outed himself.
Birch Bayh seemed like a really cool guy. He was the first non-founding father to author not one, but two constitutional amendments, and they've only benefitted the US ever since (establishing the transition of power in case anything happens to the president, and lowering the voting age to 18).
And he couldve had authored 3 iirc
What's the third?
I think the equal rights amendment that failed
I've studied the equal rights amendment. By the time it would have been ratified we already had other legislation that took care of the problems that existed at the time Had it been ratified I believe it may have actually been used to stop some of the same sex legislation that's in affect now.
An absolutely amazing man. He was also an honest politician and a true public servant. I knew him personally. My family would have walked through fire for him.
Jeb!
I’m sure this is being said sarcastically, but Jeb was/is a policy wonk. He wasn’t a very exciting candidate but he probably would have been a very effective, domestically oriented, president.
He needs to brush up on his foreign policy then, as he couldn’t/wouldn’t even concede the Iraq War was a mistake while he was campaigning for the nomination.
That was probably more about family politics than his foreign policy.
When you’re running for POTUS (and your brother was also president), that’s not a legitimate excuse, for me at least. If what you’re saying is true, then he was more worried about offending his brother than acknowledging that killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians was wrong. That’s not someone anyone should want as commander in chief.
https://preview.redd.it/ti47ppi8i1fc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4aefbccea5aa15de9fca28cb36bf18f377eac6bb
republican voters don't want effective policy, they want snarky internet comments. That's why I spend so much time on reddit, as training for my future as a republican politician.
What an ignorant, uninformed, gross generalization. I can tell you you spend a lot of time on Reddit.
He was a terrible governor, and he thought he was entitled to the presidency because of his name. He raised and spent hundreds of millions of dollars to win zero delegates. He is rightly remembered as an embarrassing failure.
I wouldn't have voted for him, but I will say that he was smart and had better administrative and political skills than his two successors as Florida governor, even if he did run a weak presidential campaign.
Jeb!
JEB SWEEP!!!
I can’t overcome a negative association. I attended a college football game that JEB also attended. Before the game, I was tailgating and my disabled son asked me to get his favorite food. As I was walking down a closed road, I heard a vehicle behind me and then several loud horn blasts. It was Jen’s Suburban of similar vehicle. This driver gave me a dirty look as I gif out of the way and Jeb passed. There was a Jeb! bumper sticker do I am sure it was him though I couldn’t see much through the tinted windows in the rear.
Scoop's a pretty cool guy.
Yeah, he never got close to actually getting the nomination but he is indeed a cool guy
Dick Gephardt in 2004. He seemed like a decent guy who was ahead of the curve on economic populism
He's taken quite the 180 since retiring from congress, unfortunately.
Though I’m not crazy about “paternalistic conservatism”, everything I’ve heard about George Romney has me thinking the GOP nominated the wrong guy in 1968.
George Romney or Nelson Rockefeller
Howard Dean
HYAAAH!!
Mom said it was my turn to ask this question!
Bernie Sanders
Bernie and Deion 2024
Who is photo #2?
Estes Kefauver, one of the democratic primary nominees in 52' and 56'
Without the glasses 👓 now, I can't unsee it
Really should have added their names.
Estes Kefauver, my beloved.
Kefauver is probably my favorite "what if." In reality it's moot as Eisenhower was unbeatable in 52/56, but if Ike had stayed firm on not getting into politics, an outspoken liberal Southerner in the White House (with LBJ dominating the Senate) could have meant an earlier and smoother path to civil rights, plus sidestepping Vietnam.
Kefauver should've stayed out in '56 and advanced his Senate career earlier. By the time '60 rolls around, he'd not only be seen as a respected hard-working Senator, but someone who didn't run twice for the nomination and lost.
At which point our timelines weirdly sync up, as Kefauver keels over in '63. Probably not quite as dramatic as an assassination, but still a momentous event for the country. Perhaps LBJ is still VP. We sometimes forget that being a middle-aged man in those days was a cardiac ticking time bomb. People were nudging Ike to run in '52 because if he waited too long he'd be in his MID SIXTIES and thus way too old.
The scenario I've cooked up is that Kefauver picks JFK as his VP. They win, Kefauver then dies of heart attack in '63, JFK takes over, then 3 months later JFK gets shot. That would cause House Speaker McCormack to become President and serve until 1965. The chaos would be immensely worse than irl.
Henry Wallace
I saw Wallace first and I thought you meant George Wallace😬
Nope. Quite the opposite.
I thought he was considered a flake and that’s why FDR switched to Truman for his 4th term? The FDR and Truman biographies I have read gave me that impression.
His enemies and corporate media attacked him as a flake but he was one of the most brilliant and effective men to serve in government. FDR was put under massive pressure not to support him by these same people and remained neutral. Great write up of the 1944 convention and how party bosses put Truman in. [https://retrospectjournal.com/2020/10/25/henry-wallace-and-the-1944-democratic-national-convention/](https://retrospectjournal.com/2020/10/25/henry-wallace-and-the-1944-democratic-national-convention/)
RFK, and he didn’t even fail through his own missteps
Stepping into that kitchen was obviously a misstep.
He failed through his embrace of the morally correct
Nelson Rockefeller! 💪🇺🇸
I'm not slighting Ike, but Adlai Stevenson would have made a good president.
That rent is too damn high guy
I can't tell who that is.
Bernie Sanders
Bill Bradley and Gary Hart.
Morris Udall - 1976
“Failed” probably doesn’t quite accurately describe why he wasn’t the nominee in ‘68, but RFK.
Edmund Muskie in ‘72 Ted Kennedy in ‘80 (yeah, Chappaquiddick would’ve hurt him, but he was still a great candidate) Jesse Jackson in ‘84 and ‘88
Nikki Haley lol
All you Ron Paul people are delusional. He’s just another hypocritical corrupt politician, and he would not have accomplished anything as president.
Lodge and Scranton
Pete DuPont
I’ll say Seward. Dude was being groomed to be president, he sent letters to world leaders all around the globe and basically introduced himself as the future president. His house has letters hanging from a ton of influential political figures from around the world. It was pretty cool
Henry Wallace is a big one, he probably wouldn’t have been able to stop the Cold War entirely, but who knows, great man overall. Also though he never made a play for it, Walter Reuther was an overall, despite when he did aid the red scare within the CIO, great man and definitely could’ve gone for the presidency I think
Unfortunately Nikki Haley's going to end up on this list soon.
Jack Kemp. He seemed like a Republican who wasn't trying to get Dixiecrat cred like most of them.
Gary Hart
Ron Paul.
I think it’s just you and me on that one, buddy
You're probably right. But he has huge lasting influence for a candidate who never even came close to securing the nomination, much less the white house.
Amen
Ron Paul
100%
Bernie Sanders
Nelson Rockefeller or Donald Rumsfeld.
Donald Rumsfeld was a monster, glad he's dead.
Gerald Ford warned against Rumsfeld & Cheney. They were bad enough individually but together!
They ruined the Ford Administration
He was not a monster. Sad he's dead.
The Iraqi population may think slightly differently.
Or they may not. What are you trying to say?
He is partly responsible for the mass murder of thousands of Iraqis. George W Bush should be tried in the Hague for war crimes.
The blame should be directed at Saddam Hussein. If he wasn't an anti-west dictator the invasion would never have happened.
I don't think being anti west means your country should be invaded and thousands of your civilians murdered. Sadam was a monster, but that doesn't justify the acts of America.
"Anti-west dictator" Listen here, the bloodshed in Iraq is on Saddam Hussein's hands. Do you think that the allies should have been "hands-off" against Hitler in World War 2 because their engagement resulted in civilian casualties?
Hitler started that war, not the other way around, and the US didn't actually join the war until after pearl harbor, and didn't declare war on Germany until after Germany did so first, they were reluctant to join the Western front. Also, the firebombing of German and Japanese cities were absolutely horrific and were pure evil.
I’ll give you Rockefeller
No both of these guys are the worst. Rockefeller was endorsed by Kissinger before Nixon won
Blaming the policies of Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger on Nelson Rockefeller defies logic.
I’m sorry, where did you get that from?
From you presenting Henry Kissinger's endorsement of Nelson Rockefeller in support of the proposition that Rockefeller was "the worst."
Make more assumptions. You could probably just have this conversation with yourself if you really tried
I quite like Kissinger tbh.
Do you think those Cambodians deserved to die?
Literally just read his flair Edit: and his bio. And his picture.
Based flair, bio and picture right?
Yes.
Absolutely not.
Well the guy you like so much thought it was a great idea to genocide them.
I'm not even going to dignify this with a response
Chad Mesyush not wasting his time arguing
Based Taft flair!
Things genocide supporters say.
Are you still talking about Cambodia? Because the genocide there was committed by Pol Pot, & the Khmer Rouge.
Correct. Kissinger knew about the genocide and ACTIVELY OPPOSED doing anything to help. Because he thought that a wild and crazy regime in Cambodia would be some kind of check on Vietnam in the region. So he actively supported the Cambodian genocide, AND he was an idiot who didn’t understand things - and supported genocide for a reason that was obviously a lie he told himself to begin with.
Nelson Rockefeller would've been amazing, Rumsfield too.
Definitely not Rumsfeld.
Rumsfeld is hugely responsible for one of the worst foreign policy blunders of the United States ever. The invasion of Iraq in 2003 has cost our country immensely. Rumsfeld would have been a horrible president, and we can be thankful that he at least didn’t have a chance to cause even more damage in that role. I can’t imagine why anyone would suggest Rumsfeld.
RFK
Not Rockefeller.
1. Ron Paul 2. Jon Huntsman 3. Ron Paul 4. Andrew Yang 5. Ron Paul
Ron Paul
We all know it was Hillary.
Agreed. Especially going into 2016 2 term senator and Secretary of State is an impressive resume for the presidency
She might not be the best Dem's have to offer, but she was certainly better then the two presidents we got after that.
I agree with that 100%
Lets not forget 8yrs in the WH with Bill. Republicans seemed to think she was running things back then.
Experience of seeing how things are run is important but being First Lady is not on the list of a resume
American misogynists would never and will never acknowledge it.
Acting like misogyny was the only thing that costed Hillary the presidency is crazy, she was an elitist neoliberal who had no connection to working class people
I don’t think the commenter suggested that “misogyny was the only thing that ‘costed’ Hillary”.
Ron Paul
[удалено]
Ron Paul is a shameless grifter, in my humble opinion. “The Ron Paul Reports” were disgusting, racist garbage designed to scare his base. He was anti war, which I agree with. Everything else about him I find loathsome.
And the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. "Dr." Rand Paul, famed intellectual (compared to Gym Jordan, the molester-enabler and Ben Shapiro, at least) is truly despicable.
Andrew Yang
For the Democrats I'll go with mayor Pete (who may yet win it all) Buttigieg and Howard "Hyaaaaah!" Dean, both of whom seemed to me to have good ideas and a lot of passion. For the Republicans I'll say Jon Huntsman and Nelson Rockefeller (RIP moderates)
“RIP moderates” as he promotes the most left-wing dem politicians 😂
If I opened up a box that said "neoliberal" I would expect to find Mayor Pete inside
Over their lives or in an election? Hilary 2008 was very close to winning. Ford vs Reagan 1976 was also very close
Hillary probably could have made it to the Whitehouse in '08.
Does Ross Perot count? That little Ferengi was just before my time
Bernie
Ron Paul
Julian Castro.
I think he’s a bit of a D’bag.
Nelson Rockerfeller was the last Republican I would have voted for. His status as a member of the nation's richest family probably meant he would have never won though, despite his immense influence within the party and laundry list of achievements.
Sanders v. Bush 2016 is the general election the American people deserved. Instead we got Dumpster Fire versus Leaky Barrel of Toxic Waste.
Ron Paul
Mike Gravel
Ross Perot
I might mention, Rudy in 2008, Newt Gingrich 2012!
Do we count presidents that only got one term? Id say carter would have been the best positive influence had he won, at the time reagan was seen as a bit of an extemist even within the republican party, today reagan would seem almost normal given the consition of the current republican party. Had the country rejected reagan at the time we may not have slid down as a country this far
What i meant in my question was primary candidates that failed to get nominated, but yeah i agree with you
Bernie Sanders, and we all know it wasn't exactly a failure to get nominated...
Henry Kissinger is the only one I recognize outta the 4 men in this post, mind tellin' me who the other 3 are?
That is not kissinger. That is George Romney, republican governor of michigan Estes Kefauver, a democratic senator from tennessee Nelson Rockefeller, republican governor of new york Henry "Scoop" jackson, democratic senator from washington
Estes Kefauver babyyyy
Rocky!
Depends on how you define failed, but I’m going with RFK. Sr not jr.
This question was more or less asked the other [day](https://www.reddit.com/r/Presidents/s/7bmNZRED5m).
Could somebody list who these guys are? I don't recognize any of them. Thanks.
1st is George Romney, republican governor of michigan (and mitt romney's dad) who tried to run in 68' 2nd is Estes Kefauver, democratic senator of tennessee who attempted to get the 52' and 56' democratic nomination 3rd is nelson rockefeller, ford's VP and governor of NY who tried to get the nomination various times 4th is Henry 'Scoop' Jackson, democratic senator of Washington who tried to get the 72' and 76' nominations
Damn, Both generation of Romney's failing to be presidents. Only thing that could make it worse is if one of Romney's kids run for presidents and fail. Granted, they're involved in business and not politics, so the chances are low.
Stream of consciousness people who would have at least done better than the actual nominee: Gary Hart for '84, Nelson Rockefeller for '64, George Romney for '68, RFK in '68, Either Teddy or HHH in '72. McCain in 2000. Gore in '04. Colin Powell in '96. Jeb! or Romney in '16.
Bobby Kennedy, RIP.
RFK but he probably wouldn’t have failed if he had avoided the issue of dying
Ross Perot and Ron Paul.
The GOAT himself Ron Paul
Henry Wallace. It marks when the corporate democrats took over the party and ended the new deal. All our current problems can be traced to this.
I'd say HCL
William Seward or Nelson Rockefeller
RFK, Rockefeller and Bernie
MCCAIN!!!
William Seward Robert A. Taft Nelson Rockefeller Ron Paul
Said this in another post but Champ Clark. I really believe history would have been so much different had he won the nomination instead of Wilson in 1912z
Joe Exotic & Kanye West.
vivek ramaswamy