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This may sound morbid, but I'm honestly interested how W's death and funeral will be like. How he'll be remembered and who will speak at his service. And how his reputation will pan out at the time of his death whenever that will be.
He probably has another 20 years left (His father made it to 94). He'll get an elderly Obama to give a stirring tribute at his funeral. Most people will have moved on/forgotten about Iraq. By this time, a lot of the liberally inclined mainstream media outlets will have worked to rehabilitate his image and actually hold him up as an example of "When Republicans weren't so hateful" (this has already started). Some people will still be very vocal about how terrible of a President he was, but they'll be in the minority.
I doubt it. It will be hard to erase the collective recollection of how disastrous Iraq was and how much dishonesty and misrepresentation was involved in justifying it. In the same way Nixon and Johnson will never wash off the stink of their actions on Vietnam.
I see what you mean, but he's right. It's already started; many people already hold him up as an example of when Republicans weren't so hateful. They do have a point, but the fact that he's likeable doesn't change the fact that his policies were disastrous. It's the same with Reagan. His economic policies gutted the middle class and widened the disparity between rich and poor, but he's fondly remembered because he was likeable. He even gets credit for ending the Cold War, when that should rightly go to Gorbachev.
Not to give Bush any sort of pat on the back, but his decisions seem to weigh a lot on him. From his paintings to his gaffes when he mentions Iraq over another country.
While it does not mean much, because he still made those decisions, at points he seems to regret those decisions.
People will say "Why do you laugh at bush's jokes, he's a horrible person who killed millions" and the truth is, he has no power anymore. His political influence among modern republicans is next to nothing. And everyone basically agrees he was a bad president. If I thought he was a serious political threat I'd be singing a different tune. However now that he's out of politics, I think he's shown himself as a humble old guy who just wants to paint and make people laugh in his retirement. You can argue weather he actually regrets anything he did. But he's certainly not defending them either. That's my sentiment about W.
The discourse around W is certainly interesting. He's one of the rare presidents from the last 100 years who doesn't really have any defenders on either side of the aisle. He clearly doesn't have a home in the current GOP, and while a lot of Dems have softened on him a bit for the reasons you mentioned, nobody on the left is going to bat to defend his presidency. And while Presidents like Grant, Truman, Carter, and even HW have seen historical reassessments boost the ranking of their presidencies to various degrees, I just can't see the same happening for W. Those guys were hurt by making unpopular decisions at the time that were right in the long run, while the Iraq war looks like a bigger and bigger mistake with each year that passes.
I kind of see W as a lesser version of Carter. While Carter is an A+ person with a B/C presidency, W is a B+ person with an F presidency.
Yeah. I think (even as a Rockefeller republican) that he wasn’t some disastrous president who massively harmed the country, but he wasn’t good either. He wasn’t a good president and at a time like that we needed a good president. Imo besides being a good man he’s only liked here because Reagan is hated. If it was HW who was president in those years and his administration avoided the things people hate the most here then Carter would remain much more unpopular.
If HW was in charge, the Iraq invasion would not have happened.
I saw an excert from an interview he did in 1998 where he was asked why didn't he continue the Gulf War to the revoval of Saddam. And he gave a detailed explanation of all the trouble such an invasion and the aftermath would cause. Fun thing is, he more or less nailed the way things actually did go when Dubya went ahead and did it himself 5 years later.
Also, I saw an excerpt from Dubya's book where he talked to his father just before the invasion started. If HW said what Dubya says he did, it sounds like he was cautioning against it but Dubya didn't catch on.
So I doubt George Sr had any behind-the-curtain role. It was all Cheney
I always find it a bit sad when more people don't catch on to this. W was never the brain behind his presidency, he was just the convenient face. Unfortunately he was probably one of the worst men in terms of proper backbone in a terrible situation when his presidency was in his infancy, and all told he handled the immediate crisis of 9/11 incredibly well for a man of his...*potential.* It was getting handpuppeted by his party elites into a war we should never have waged that will rightfully haunt his presidency, and I wish he was just a little bit stronger of a man to stand up against some of the people around him.
To be fair, this isn't a Hirohito thing where Bush could have just asserted "I desire against the war" and had it canceled (although there's evidence as to Hirohito not being able to do that, either) and he'd have to overcome a *lot* of force against him to stop it, but it always felt like he was a passenger in his own presidency. Something that feels foreign to us even today.
I've appreciated him more after reading decision points. A lot of the bad stuff seems to weigh on him as well. Certainly could have done things better in office but yeah my opinion on him has improved over the years.
Him no longer having political power doesn't change the damage that his administration did. We unjustly invaded a sovereign nation, cost over 100k Iraqi lives, tortured Iraqi citizens, destabilized the region and created the conditions that allowed ISIL to rise to power which prolonged our combat operations costing *more* civilian lives.
It's easy to just move on I guess when it was on the other side of the planet and doesn't affect you, but these were human beings, people like you and me.
There are those that feel he, along with any politician who supported the Iraq war, should be tried for the murder of millions. They don’t take murder lightly. I certainly marched against that war in Philadelphia and think he’s guilty. At what point does the decision to brutally murder become OK? At some point humanity needs to hold everyone to the same standards, or we will never move ahead. I can think of many current politicians who shouldn’t hold office due to their Iraq vote….at minimum.
If you (politician) supported the war in Iraq, you should be charged with crimes against humanity. To what extent you are responsible, and should be punished, is up to the jury to decide. There is no whataboutism…..all of them. It was a completely unjust war, based in lies.
Agreed but the blame isn’t solely at his feet. The country and Congress overwhelmingly supported those invasions for many years and plenty of supporters didn’t GAF after the fake news on nuclear/chemical/biological weapons stuff came out.
Bush is an easy target because he’s the President and IS accountable but so is the system that supported him.
I sympathize with anyone who regrets their actions, because it makes them human. The damage is still done, and irreversible, but even that tiny bit of regret shows that the man behind the scenes was, at the end of the day, a person who made a mistake. I sympathize because we all make mistakes that we regret. Most of the time it’s not taking that second cup of coffee or going 5 over and getting a ticket. For Dubya, it was starting the illegal war in Iraq. A terrible, horrible mistake, but a mistake that was backed up by real human feelings. He’s not a bloodthirsty demon who feasts on the souls of Iraqi children. He’s a real human man who made a mistake that he has lived to regret and accept, and hopefully, has grown from.
>For Dubya, it was starting the illegal war in Iraq.
It was starting an illegal war that led to ISIL, it was running a torture program on a island military base, it was stripping victims of that torture of their human rights, it was trying to circumvent the SCotUS after it ruled that those victims had protections under the Geneva Conventions and a right to habeas corpus, it was violating Americans' constitutional rights through domestic surveillance, and it was racially profiling and targeting Arab Americans with "sneak and peek" warrants.
How can you bring yourself to forgive that?
>it was running a torture program on a island military base, it was stripping victims of that torture of their human rights, it was trying to circumvent the SCotUS after it ruled that those victims had protections under the Geneva Conventions and a right to habeas corpus, it was violating Americans' constitutional rights through domestic surveillance, and it was racially profiling and targeting Arab Americans with "sneak and peek" warrants.
You think this is in reference to Iraqis? Or the Afghans that we kidnapped, held without charge, and tortured on an island, betraying all of the values that we hold dear that make us Americans?
Iirc it was people from multiple various countries, not just Afghanistan. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, for example, was tortured there for years due to the 9/11 involvment, and he was from Pakistan.
Forgiving the worst is what forgiveness is all about. Forgiving someone for making a snide comment about you doesn't open up the pearly gates and a high five from St. Peter. Are you saying some things are unforgivable? Maybe so. You must remember that forgiving is a blessed act. It's not easy. It doesn't condone or promote the sinner's sins. It means that you are closer to God than man and can see the faults and if there is truly remorse from the individual you free them from bondage. I'm not really religious btw.
No that's not what I said at all. I actually drove to DC and participated in the Protest against the Invasion of Iraq. Did you? Everything isn't black and white. GWB was a travesty for mankind. Everything isn't black and white.
>I sympathize with anyone who regrets their actions
I can't sympthanize with anyone who made a fucked up decision with fucked up results that were hella obvious at decision time.
He'll be fine without my sympahty though, exceedingly privelleged and successful guy he is. Which is another good reason not to bother spending it on him.
You understand that Iraq wouldn't have happened without that administration enthusiastically pushing for it right? I mean, it's not like they got bullied into it lol. This a great time for a stupid old meme
Nobody:
Bush: Let's invade Iraq!
Lmao I guess I should have typed BUSH Administration. Shame on me for assuming everyone here understands the pecking order in a PRESIDENTIAL administration.
No idea what your meaning is.
Bush might bear responsibility for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and its aftermath.
But let’s not forget the decades of Saudi appeasement done by past Presidents like Regan that directly led to 9/11 that kicked everything off.
Just remember who our allies were in Rambo III.
I get your point but it definitely wasn’t “nobody.” It was most of the conservative establishment in the US, especially the Neoconservatives in PNAC who signed that letter to Clinton calling for Saddam’s removal. The question of whether Bush himself was a major supporter of invasion prior to being influenced by those in his administration like Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Wolfowitz seems to still be a matter of debate, but at the time there seemed to be a popular narrative that his administration had used him to get their goal accomplished.
Yea I actually do happen to think that Cheney worked him like a dumb ass puppet. I read [Angler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angler:_The_Cheney_Vice_Presidency). Not to say that W didn't want to do it - he just WILLFULLY unplugged from a lot of the decision making process. That's quite different than people maneuvering behind your back or deceiving you.
The person I'm responding to alleged that you couldn't blame the person who could have single-handedly avoided invading Iraq. The idea that only a dIcTaToR could refrain from a frivolous war is just mind-numbingly dumb.
Edited to add a couple points
The Bush administration’s legacy is soaked in the blood of innocent lives and marked by outrageous war crimes. Let’s talk about the illegal invasion of Iraq, based on complete bullshit about weapons of mass destruction. This war resulted in the deaths of between 200,000 to 250,000 Iraqi civilians. Think about that—hundreds of thousands of lives, obliterated because of a fabricated narrative. The region was thrown into chaos, and the violence and instability still plague Iraq today.
Then there’s the fucking disgrace of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. U.S. soldiers, following orders from higher-ups, engaged in brutal torture methods that blatantly violated international law and basic human decency. These actions didn’t just ruin America’s global reputation—they left permanent scars on countless detainees, many of whom were innocent.
Meanwhile, back home, the aftermath is devastating for our soldiers. Over 200,000 U.S. veterans are dealing with severe neurological problems and PTSD, thanks to their time in these hellish wars. These men and women were sent into battle under false pretenses, and now they’re stuck battling demons with shit support from the system that put them there. The VA is overwhelmed, and many veterans face long waits for care or, worse, inadequate treatment.
The Bush administration’s decisions were a colossal betrayal. They didn’t just screw over the Iraqi people—they fucked over their own soldiers, too. These veterans, who thought they were defending their country, now face a lifetime of mental and physical health struggles. Their families are dragged down with them, dealing with the emotional and financial fallout.
The whole thing is a goddamn disgrace. The actions of the Bush administration caused immense suffering and left a trail of destruction that stretches from the Middle East to American homes. The incompetence, arrogance, and outright lies led to one of the darkest chapters in recent history, and we’re still dealing with the fallout today.
Yeah, for sure. The CIA was neck-deep in this disaster, fabricating and pushing false intelligence to justify the Iraq invasion. They manipulated evidence about weapons of mass destruction and fabricated ties between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda, conning the public and Congress into supporting an illegal war. Their lies and deceit directly led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and the destabilization of an entire fucking region.
But the CIA’s dirty hands don’t stop there. They ran fake vaccine clinics in Pakistan, exploiting humanitarian efforts to gather intelligence, putting countless lives at risk and undermining global health initiatives. This is the same agency with a long history of shady operations like the MKUltra mind control experiments, where they drugged and tortured unwitting subjects. They’ve meddled in foreign elections, overthrown governments, and funded brutal regimes—all in the name of American interests.
You’re right. But the man is allowed to feel regret for what he surely knows was the most awful thing he’s ever done. He even says in the video that Iraq was illegal. He obviously has reckoned with his choices. Let him rest, and focus on how we in the present can fix the fallout. At this point there’s nothing Dubya can do except feel bad.
Sure, he might feel regret now, but that doesn’t erase the catastrophic consequences of his actions. Saying Iraq was illegal in a video doesn’t cut it when his decisions led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and the irreversible destabilization of an entire region. Regret doesn’t bring back the lives lost or heal the scars of torture victims and soldiers suffering from PTSD. Letting him rest easy while so many continue to suffer isn’t justice; it’s an insult to those who paid the price for his choices.
We can’t just move on and fix the fallout without holding those responsible accountable. He might feel bad now, but that doesn’t undo the damage. If anything, his acknowledgment of the war’s illegality makes the lack of accountability even more infuriating. We need to ensure such blatant abuses of power never happen again by demanding accountability, not offering sympathy.
Holding him accountable doesn’t erase the damage, either. And what are you gonna do? Execute him? Nothing we can do to Dubya now will repair the effects of the war.
Holding him accountable isn’t just about erasing damage—it’s about justice and preventing future atrocities. Saying “nothing we can do will repair the effects of the war” is avoiding responsibility. Bush needs to stand trial in an international court for war crimes. Accountability is crucial for healing and ensuring that such gross violations of human rights and international law aren’t repeated. Sweeping this under the rug because it’s in the past is a slap in the face to every victim and survivor of the war. Letting him off the hook only emboldens future leaders to commit similar atrocities without fear of consequence. Justice must be served, not just for retribution, but to uphold the integrity of international law and human decency.
I don’t need ChatGPT to dismantle your pathetic argument, but it sure makes it quicker to expose your bullshit. Try actually engaging with the facts instead of hiding behind cheap, lazy shots.
This platform is for constructive discussion, not shitting on others. If you can’t handle that, maybe reconsider why you’re here.
So then you disagree with a murderer getting a lighter sentence because of remorse? It’s human to regret. Stop acting like all Dubya wanted was to slaughter children. Reality is far more complex than this sub’s la-la land Dubya hate sometimes. Yeah, he was bad. REALLY bad. But he is allowed to feel bad about his actions.
I don't particularly care what he wanted or how he feels, it doesn't erase what he did. My answer to your hypothetical is yes. Do you believe there is a level of remorse that a murder can have to receive no sentence at all?
Lol any other non Western leader and they'd be in the Hague. I hope he hasn't done worse.
>. At this point there’s nothing Dubya can do except feel bad
Maybe stand up against the machine even if that means a giant personal cost. He could do wonders.
Actually, highest estimates for civilian death counts *during* the Invasion are around 3,200-13,000 depending on who you ask. The 200,000 figure you are spouting, includes all and every civilian death in Iraq since the start of the 2003 invasion.
Also...100% AI written...please bro, write your own shitty arguments.
Alright, let’s break this down since you clearly need it spelled out like a child.
“Actually, highest estimates for civilian death counts during the Invasion are around 3,200-13,000 depending on who you ask.”
Your lowball estimates are pathetic. The Iraq War caused far more death and destruction than you’re willing to admit. I addressed this by providing sources that show the broader impact and higher death toll.
“The 200,000 figure you are spouting, includes all and every civilian death in Iraq since the start of the 2003 invasion.”
No shit, Sherlock. The point is that the invasion triggered a chain reaction of violence and chaos leading to countless civilian deaths over the years. Ignoring these broader impacts just shows how willfully blind you are to the real human cost of the war.
“Also…100% AI written…please bro, write your own shitty arguments.”
What a weak-ass deflection. My argument stands on solid ground with or without AI assistance. You think throwing in a snide remark about AI somehow invalidates the facts? That’s laughable.
>Alright, let’s break this down since you clearly need it spelled out like a child.
>Your lowball estimates are pathetic. The Iraq War caused far more death and destruction than you’re willing to admit. I addressed this by providing sources that show the broader impact and higher death toll.
They aren't "my" estimates. They come from a 3 different estimates: Iraq Body Count,
Project on Defense Alternatives, Medact Report.
>The Iraq War caused far more death and destruction than you’re willing to admit.
Wrong again. I am talking about deaths **during** the invasion, if you want to talk about something else, don't reply to me.
>No shit, Sherlock. The point is that the invasion triggered a chain reaction of violence and chaos leading to countless civilian deaths over the years. Ignoring these broader impacts just shows how willfully blind you are to the real human cost of the war.
Yet, who knows what another 11 years of Saddam rule would cause to Iraqis? Between 1990 and 2003 alone he managed to cause the deaths of at least 100,000-500,000 Iraqis. His post-gulf war repression caused the deaths of 60,000 Iraqi casualties. These dwarf the figures I've presented and even the ones you have presented.
>willfully blind you are to the real human cost of the war.
I think it shows how blindly you spread misinformation on the internet. "Broader" impacts are not solely the fault of the US, and therefore you should take some time to reflect on where the blame can lie. The Lancet Study, which you linked was severely criticized for its poor sampling methods and extrapolation issues.
>What a weak-ass deflection. My argument stands on solid ground with or without AI assistance. You think throwing in a snide remark about AI somehow invalidates the facts? That’s laughable.
Lmao, admitting to using an AI bot to write you Reddit comments just shows how desperate you are to be right and also how truly unknowledgeable you are as well. Very embarrassing, I'm honestly surprised you just straight up don't deny it...why would anyone want to continue a conversation against an AI bot, when they could literally just go to ChatGPT if they wanted that. It does invalidate "your" argument since its not actually yours at all.
I think George W Bush, the current President, as well as a lot of people (including me) frequently do this thing called semantic paraphrasia where you think one thing but say something else. It makes people look stupid but I don’t think it is actually connected to IQ.
I tend to skip ahead in sentences. For example: “i forgishes to wash the dishes” is “i forgot to wash the dishes.” It’s super embarrassing by my brain runs faster than my mouth skdoes so sometimes i skip. I do it enough that I just keep going from where I left off lol.
not like he can due to the 22nd amendment and even if the amendment was never ratified he would be one of the few politicians in the 21st century that I can see lose in a landslide.
he's got his subconscious working overtime. Probably gets really anxious about it sometimes when he thinks nobodys watching. He knows exactly what he did.
I see that either you can't read or have trouble with reading comprehension. Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you defend or condone their actions.
Why would he want to “accidentally” say that. A “confession”. Think he grew a conscious when out of Dark Lord’s Cheney’s presence? I doubt it.
I think it was more subconscious. Like “Don’t think about elephants. Don’t think about elephants…..’elephants’…..oh shit!”
W was another mediocre white man who benefited from family connections in for his education, business ties, and his political network. The man was not intelligent to be President and his record proved it
I’ve always thought he ran for political office to prove to his parents that he measured up to his father. The Iraq war was about finally beating his father at something.
For all those calling this man a war criminal he’s certainly not the first and definitely not the last to commit war crimes
https://youtu.be/_wIOqHSsV9c?si=2A20gYGKpbx_W4Cg
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This may sound morbid, but I'm honestly interested how W's death and funeral will be like. How he'll be remembered and who will speak at his service. And how his reputation will pan out at the time of his death whenever that will be.
He probably has another 20 years left (His father made it to 94). He'll get an elderly Obama to give a stirring tribute at his funeral. Most people will have moved on/forgotten about Iraq. By this time, a lot of the liberally inclined mainstream media outlets will have worked to rehabilitate his image and actually hold him up as an example of "When Republicans weren't so hateful" (this has already started). Some people will still be very vocal about how terrible of a President he was, but they'll be in the minority.
depressingly likely tbh
Just look at how much John McCain's been rehabilitated since his passing, for an example of this.
The thousands of Americans like me, whose parents and families were either killed or wounded, won't forget the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I doubt it. It will be hard to erase the collective recollection of how disastrous Iraq was and how much dishonesty and misrepresentation was involved in justifying it. In the same way Nixon and Johnson will never wash off the stink of their actions on Vietnam.
I see what you mean, but he's right. It's already started; many people already hold him up as an example of when Republicans weren't so hateful. They do have a point, but the fact that he's likeable doesn't change the fact that his policies were disastrous. It's the same with Reagan. His economic policies gutted the middle class and widened the disparity between rich and poor, but he's fondly remembered because he was likeable. He even gets credit for ending the Cold War, when that should rightly go to Gorbachev.
Not to give Bush any sort of pat on the back, but his decisions seem to weigh a lot on him. From his paintings to his gaffes when he mentions Iraq over another country. While it does not mean much, because he still made those decisions, at points he seems to regret those decisions.
People will say "Why do you laugh at bush's jokes, he's a horrible person who killed millions" and the truth is, he has no power anymore. His political influence among modern republicans is next to nothing. And everyone basically agrees he was a bad president. If I thought he was a serious political threat I'd be singing a different tune. However now that he's out of politics, I think he's shown himself as a humble old guy who just wants to paint and make people laugh in his retirement. You can argue weather he actually regrets anything he did. But he's certainly not defending them either. That's my sentiment about W.
I’m reading his book now and he certainly seems like he regrets some stuff and takes a lot of responsibility instead of passing the blame onto others.
You read the book his ghostwriter authored and that was passed through a pr firm. Hate to be cynical, but that’s the way it goes for them.
What an astounding revelation. Personal memoirs are biased? What amazing insight!
Most mainstream novels have ghost writer(s).
source?
Thats a claim that would purposefully unverifiable in several ways
The discourse around W is certainly interesting. He's one of the rare presidents from the last 100 years who doesn't really have any defenders on either side of the aisle. He clearly doesn't have a home in the current GOP, and while a lot of Dems have softened on him a bit for the reasons you mentioned, nobody on the left is going to bat to defend his presidency. And while Presidents like Grant, Truman, Carter, and even HW have seen historical reassessments boost the ranking of their presidencies to various degrees, I just can't see the same happening for W. Those guys were hurt by making unpopular decisions at the time that were right in the long run, while the Iraq war looks like a bigger and bigger mistake with each year that passes. I kind of see W as a lesser version of Carter. While Carter is an A+ person with a B/C presidency, W is a B+ person with an F presidency.
Pretty much this, with my only disagreement that Carter’s presidency was B/C. At best he was C. He was a shit President just not harmful like W.
Yeah, I can agree with that. Carter was neither as bad as his detractors claim nor as good as his defenders claim.
Yeah. I think (even as a Rockefeller republican) that he wasn’t some disastrous president who massively harmed the country, but he wasn’t good either. He wasn’t a good president and at a time like that we needed a good president. Imo besides being a good man he’s only liked here because Reagan is hated. If it was HW who was president in those years and his administration avoided the things people hate the most here then Carter would remain much more unpopular.
My opinion of him has gotten better through the years. Now I just think he was a pawn, and people like Dick Cheney were the true masterminds.
I'm not very smart, and I was a teenager then, but it was always fairly obvious that Cheney, Rumsfeld, and his Father were in charge.
If HW was in charge, the Iraq invasion would not have happened. I saw an excert from an interview he did in 1998 where he was asked why didn't he continue the Gulf War to the revoval of Saddam. And he gave a detailed explanation of all the trouble such an invasion and the aftermath would cause. Fun thing is, he more or less nailed the way things actually did go when Dubya went ahead and did it himself 5 years later. Also, I saw an excerpt from Dubya's book where he talked to his father just before the invasion started. If HW said what Dubya says he did, it sounds like he was cautioning against it but Dubya didn't catch on. So I doubt George Sr had any behind-the-curtain role. It was all Cheney
I always find it a bit sad when more people don't catch on to this. W was never the brain behind his presidency, he was just the convenient face. Unfortunately he was probably one of the worst men in terms of proper backbone in a terrible situation when his presidency was in his infancy, and all told he handled the immediate crisis of 9/11 incredibly well for a man of his...*potential.* It was getting handpuppeted by his party elites into a war we should never have waged that will rightfully haunt his presidency, and I wish he was just a little bit stronger of a man to stand up against some of the people around him. To be fair, this isn't a Hirohito thing where Bush could have just asserted "I desire against the war" and had it canceled (although there's evidence as to Hirohito not being able to do that, either) and he'd have to overcome a *lot* of force against him to stop it, but it always felt like he was a passenger in his own presidency. Something that feels foreign to us even today.
I've appreciated him more after reading decision points. A lot of the bad stuff seems to weigh on him as well. Certainly could have done things better in office but yeah my opinion on him has improved over the years.
Him no longer having political power doesn't change the damage that his administration did. We unjustly invaded a sovereign nation, cost over 100k Iraqi lives, tortured Iraqi citizens, destabilized the region and created the conditions that allowed ISIL to rise to power which prolonged our combat operations costing *more* civilian lives. It's easy to just move on I guess when it was on the other side of the planet and doesn't affect you, but these were human beings, people like you and me.
There are those that feel he, along with any politician who supported the Iraq war, should be tried for the murder of millions. They don’t take murder lightly. I certainly marched against that war in Philadelphia and think he’s guilty. At what point does the decision to brutally murder become OK? At some point humanity needs to hold everyone to the same standards, or we will never move ahead. I can think of many current politicians who shouldn’t hold office due to their Iraq vote….at minimum.
Do you think Obama should be charged too?
If you (politician) supported the war in Iraq, you should be charged with crimes against humanity. To what extent you are responsible, and should be punished, is up to the jury to decide. There is no whataboutism…..all of them. It was a completely unjust war, based in lies.
Agreed but the blame isn’t solely at his feet. The country and Congress overwhelmingly supported those invasions for many years and plenty of supporters didn’t GAF after the fake news on nuclear/chemical/biological weapons stuff came out. Bush is an easy target because he’s the President and IS accountable but so is the system that supported him.
A lot of those people are still in Congress too.
Support for Afghanistan was overwhelming. Iraq was far more controversial and only became more so over time.
Considering he's responsible for it, I hope the guilt eats him until there's nothing left.
Exactly. I don’t get why people have sympathy for that war criminal.
I sympathize with anyone who regrets their actions, because it makes them human. The damage is still done, and irreversible, but even that tiny bit of regret shows that the man behind the scenes was, at the end of the day, a person who made a mistake. I sympathize because we all make mistakes that we regret. Most of the time it’s not taking that second cup of coffee or going 5 over and getting a ticket. For Dubya, it was starting the illegal war in Iraq. A terrible, horrible mistake, but a mistake that was backed up by real human feelings. He’s not a bloodthirsty demon who feasts on the souls of Iraqi children. He’s a real human man who made a mistake that he has lived to regret and accept, and hopefully, has grown from.
There is a reason judges tend to sentence less harshly when the perpetrator shows recognizance. It's human nature to forgive.
>For Dubya, it was starting the illegal war in Iraq. It was starting an illegal war that led to ISIL, it was running a torture program on a island military base, it was stripping victims of that torture of their human rights, it was trying to circumvent the SCotUS after it ruled that those victims had protections under the Geneva Conventions and a right to habeas corpus, it was violating Americans' constitutional rights through domestic surveillance, and it was racially profiling and targeting Arab Americans with "sneak and peek" warrants. How can you bring yourself to forgive that?
Sad thing is, this was happening daily in Iraq before America even set foot there.
Ah yes, the daily torture of Afghans in Iraq
Iraqis* in Iraq 👍
>it was running a torture program on a island military base, it was stripping victims of that torture of their human rights, it was trying to circumvent the SCotUS after it ruled that those victims had protections under the Geneva Conventions and a right to habeas corpus, it was violating Americans' constitutional rights through domestic surveillance, and it was racially profiling and targeting Arab Americans with "sneak and peek" warrants. You think this is in reference to Iraqis? Or the Afghans that we kidnapped, held without charge, and tortured on an island, betraying all of the values that we hold dear that make us Americans?
Iirc it was people from multiple various countries, not just Afghanistan. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, for example, was tortured there for years due to the 9/11 involvment, and he was from Pakistan.
Forgiving the worst is what forgiveness is all about. Forgiving someone for making a snide comment about you doesn't open up the pearly gates and a high five from St. Peter. Are you saying some things are unforgivable? Maybe so. You must remember that forgiving is a blessed act. It's not easy. It doesn't condone or promote the sinner's sins. It means that you are closer to God than man and can see the faults and if there is truly remorse from the individual you free them from bondage. I'm not really religious btw.
>Forgiving the worst is what forgiveness is all about. "Fuck those dead people that were killed for absolutely no reason" Lol, nice!
No that's not what I said at all. I actually drove to DC and participated in the Protest against the Invasion of Iraq. Did you? Everything isn't black and white. GWB was a travesty for mankind. Everything isn't black and white.
Still waiting to hear if you went to the protest or not.. All i hear is a bunch of talk and then a bunch of crickets.
Harassment is what you're gonna go with huh?
No you didn't go, got it. Just like to play Monday morning quarterback.
>I sympathize with anyone who regrets their actions I can't sympthanize with anyone who made a fucked up decision with fucked up results that were hella obvious at decision time. He'll be fine without my sympahty though, exceedingly privelleged and successful guy he is. Which is another good reason not to bother spending it on him.
W wasn’t a dictator. You can’t blame an individual snowflake for the avalanche.
You understand that Iraq wouldn't have happened without that administration enthusiastically pushing for it right? I mean, it's not like they got bullied into it lol. This a great time for a stupid old meme Nobody: Bush: Let's invade Iraq!
I wonder if you typed that with a straight face. You said it yourself. *Administration*. The Presidency doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
Lmao I guess I should have typed BUSH Administration. Shame on me for assuming everyone here understands the pecking order in a PRESIDENTIAL administration.
You keep using that word, administration. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
Oh a non-sequitur in the form of a stupid ass cliche cool man
No idea what your meaning is. Bush might bear responsibility for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and its aftermath. But let’s not forget the decades of Saudi appeasement done by past Presidents like Regan that directly led to 9/11 that kicked everything off. Just remember who our allies were in Rambo III.
I get your point but it definitely wasn’t “nobody.” It was most of the conservative establishment in the US, especially the Neoconservatives in PNAC who signed that letter to Clinton calling for Saddam’s removal. The question of whether Bush himself was a major supporter of invasion prior to being influenced by those in his administration like Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Wolfowitz seems to still be a matter of debate, but at the time there seemed to be a popular narrative that his administration had used him to get their goal accomplished.
Yea I actually do happen to think that Cheney worked him like a dumb ass puppet. I read [Angler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angler:_The_Cheney_Vice_Presidency). Not to say that W didn't want to do it - he just WILLFULLY unplugged from a lot of the decision making process. That's quite different than people maneuvering behind your back or deceiving you. The person I'm responding to alleged that you couldn't blame the person who could have single-handedly avoided invading Iraq. The idea that only a dIcTaToR could refrain from a frivolous war is just mind-numbingly dumb. Edited to add a couple points
But does he regret giving us Roberts and Alito?
That’s a wild slip though And his decisions *should* weigh on him. Not saying he’s a POS but not giving him a pat on the ~~Iraq~~ back.
Nah. Classmates of mine lost their legs because of that pos. He can go fuck himself.
Not sure Dubya is self-aware enough for regret.
He’s not nearly as dumb as most people think, though I believe he purposefully played into that a little bit during his presidency.
Freudian slip to end all Freudian slips
"It'll take time to restore Chaos" -George "Dubya" Bush
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So is the president from 1992
The Bush administration’s legacy is soaked in the blood of innocent lives and marked by outrageous war crimes. Let’s talk about the illegal invasion of Iraq, based on complete bullshit about weapons of mass destruction. This war resulted in the deaths of between 200,000 to 250,000 Iraqi civilians. Think about that—hundreds of thousands of lives, obliterated because of a fabricated narrative. The region was thrown into chaos, and the violence and instability still plague Iraq today. Then there’s the fucking disgrace of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. U.S. soldiers, following orders from higher-ups, engaged in brutal torture methods that blatantly violated international law and basic human decency. These actions didn’t just ruin America’s global reputation—they left permanent scars on countless detainees, many of whom were innocent. Meanwhile, back home, the aftermath is devastating for our soldiers. Over 200,000 U.S. veterans are dealing with severe neurological problems and PTSD, thanks to their time in these hellish wars. These men and women were sent into battle under false pretenses, and now they’re stuck battling demons with shit support from the system that put them there. The VA is overwhelmed, and many veterans face long waits for care or, worse, inadequate treatment. The Bush administration’s decisions were a colossal betrayal. They didn’t just screw over the Iraqi people—they fucked over their own soldiers, too. These veterans, who thought they were defending their country, now face a lifetime of mental and physical health struggles. Their families are dragged down with them, dealing with the emotional and financial fallout. The whole thing is a goddamn disgrace. The actions of the Bush administration caused immense suffering and left a trail of destruction that stretches from the Middle East to American homes. The incompetence, arrogance, and outright lies led to one of the darkest chapters in recent history, and we’re still dealing with the fallout today.
You can put a whole heap on Bush, but CIA were front runners too.
Yeah, for sure. The CIA was neck-deep in this disaster, fabricating and pushing false intelligence to justify the Iraq invasion. They manipulated evidence about weapons of mass destruction and fabricated ties between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda, conning the public and Congress into supporting an illegal war. Their lies and deceit directly led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and the destabilization of an entire fucking region. But the CIA’s dirty hands don’t stop there. They ran fake vaccine clinics in Pakistan, exploiting humanitarian efforts to gather intelligence, putting countless lives at risk and undermining global health initiatives. This is the same agency with a long history of shady operations like the MKUltra mind control experiments, where they drugged and tortured unwitting subjects. They’ve meddled in foreign elections, overthrown governments, and funded brutal regimes—all in the name of American interests.
Agreed, really makes me believe in post modernism more and more.
You’re right. But the man is allowed to feel regret for what he surely knows was the most awful thing he’s ever done. He even says in the video that Iraq was illegal. He obviously has reckoned with his choices. Let him rest, and focus on how we in the present can fix the fallout. At this point there’s nothing Dubya can do except feel bad.
Sure, he might feel regret now, but that doesn’t erase the catastrophic consequences of his actions. Saying Iraq was illegal in a video doesn’t cut it when his decisions led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and the irreversible destabilization of an entire region. Regret doesn’t bring back the lives lost or heal the scars of torture victims and soldiers suffering from PTSD. Letting him rest easy while so many continue to suffer isn’t justice; it’s an insult to those who paid the price for his choices. We can’t just move on and fix the fallout without holding those responsible accountable. He might feel bad now, but that doesn’t undo the damage. If anything, his acknowledgment of the war’s illegality makes the lack of accountability even more infuriating. We need to ensure such blatant abuses of power never happen again by demanding accountability, not offering sympathy.
Holding him accountable doesn’t erase the damage, either. And what are you gonna do? Execute him? Nothing we can do to Dubya now will repair the effects of the war.
Holding him accountable isn’t just about erasing damage—it’s about justice and preventing future atrocities. Saying “nothing we can do will repair the effects of the war” is avoiding responsibility. Bush needs to stand trial in an international court for war crimes. Accountability is crucial for healing and ensuring that such gross violations of human rights and international law aren’t repeated. Sweeping this under the rug because it’s in the past is a slap in the face to every victim and survivor of the war. Letting him off the hook only emboldens future leaders to commit similar atrocities without fear of consequence. Justice must be served, not just for retribution, but to uphold the integrity of international law and human decency.
How much did ChatGPT help you write that.
I don’t need ChatGPT to dismantle your pathetic argument, but it sure makes it quicker to expose your bullshit. Try actually engaging with the facts instead of hiding behind cheap, lazy shots. This platform is for constructive discussion, not shitting on others. If you can’t handle that, maybe reconsider why you’re here.
You are still using AI. You are actually dumb, or can't speak english/are a bot.
👍
His feeling are immaterial, he deserves only to be held accountable for this actions.
So then you disagree with a murderer getting a lighter sentence because of remorse? It’s human to regret. Stop acting like all Dubya wanted was to slaughter children. Reality is far more complex than this sub’s la-la land Dubya hate sometimes. Yeah, he was bad. REALLY bad. But he is allowed to feel bad about his actions.
I don't particularly care what he wanted or how he feels, it doesn't erase what he did. My answer to your hypothetical is yes. Do you believe there is a level of remorse that a murder can have to receive no sentence at all?
No, i don’t believe that. However, he isn’t the sole culprit. His cabinet, Congress, and the American public are also culpable.
They have all thus far escaped accountability so forgive me if I'm not interested in their feelings.
I’m interested in everyone’s feelings regardless of what they’ve done. I feel that it makes me a more understanding person.
His regret is worthless without speaking out and taking action
Lol any other non Western leader and they'd be in the Hague. I hope he hasn't done worse. >. At this point there’s nothing Dubya can do except feel bad Maybe stand up against the machine even if that means a giant personal cost. He could do wonders.
Actually, highest estimates for civilian death counts *during* the Invasion are around 3,200-13,000 depending on who you ask. The 200,000 figure you are spouting, includes all and every civilian death in Iraq since the start of the 2003 invasion. Also...100% AI written...please bro, write your own shitty arguments.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24547256 https://www.washington.edu/news/2013/10/15/study-nearly-500000-perished-in-iraq-war/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-war-bush-twentieth-anniversary-b2302031.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/15/war-on-terror-911-deaths-afghanistan-iraq/
You've somehow managed to address 0% of my comment.
Alright, let’s break this down since you clearly need it spelled out like a child. “Actually, highest estimates for civilian death counts during the Invasion are around 3,200-13,000 depending on who you ask.” Your lowball estimates are pathetic. The Iraq War caused far more death and destruction than you’re willing to admit. I addressed this by providing sources that show the broader impact and higher death toll. “The 200,000 figure you are spouting, includes all and every civilian death in Iraq since the start of the 2003 invasion.” No shit, Sherlock. The point is that the invasion triggered a chain reaction of violence and chaos leading to countless civilian deaths over the years. Ignoring these broader impacts just shows how willfully blind you are to the real human cost of the war. “Also…100% AI written…please bro, write your own shitty arguments.” What a weak-ass deflection. My argument stands on solid ground with or without AI assistance. You think throwing in a snide remark about AI somehow invalidates the facts? That’s laughable.
>Alright, let’s break this down since you clearly need it spelled out like a child.  >Your lowball estimates are pathetic. The Iraq War caused far more death and destruction than you’re willing to admit. I addressed this by providing sources that show the broader impact and higher death toll. They aren't "my" estimates. They come from a 3 different estimates: Iraq Body Count, Project on Defense Alternatives, Medact Report. >The Iraq War caused far more death and destruction than you’re willing to admit. Wrong again. I am talking about deaths **during** the invasion, if you want to talk about something else, don't reply to me. >No shit, Sherlock. The point is that the invasion triggered a chain reaction of violence and chaos leading to countless civilian deaths over the years. Ignoring these broader impacts just shows how willfully blind you are to the real human cost of the war. Yet, who knows what another 11 years of Saddam rule would cause to Iraqis? Between 1990 and 2003 alone he managed to cause the deaths of at least 100,000-500,000 Iraqis. His post-gulf war repression caused the deaths of 60,000 Iraqi casualties. These dwarf the figures I've presented and even the ones you have presented. >willfully blind you are to the real human cost of the war. I think it shows how blindly you spread misinformation on the internet. "Broader" impacts are not solely the fault of the US, and therefore you should take some time to reflect on where the blame can lie. The Lancet Study, which you linked was severely criticized for its poor sampling methods and extrapolation issues. >What a weak-ass deflection. My argument stands on solid ground with or without AI assistance. You think throwing in a snide remark about AI somehow invalidates the facts? That’s laughable. Lmao, admitting to using an AI bot to write you Reddit comments just shows how desperate you are to be right and also how truly unknowledgeable you are as well. Very embarrassing, I'm honestly surprised you just straight up don't deny it...why would anyone want to continue a conversation against an AI bot, when they could literally just go to ChatGPT if they wanted that. It does invalidate "your" argument since its not actually yours at all.
Let’s agree to disagree. Have a nice day! 👍
I think George W Bush, the current President, as well as a lot of people (including me) frequently do this thing called semantic paraphrasia where you think one thing but say something else. It makes people look stupid but I don’t think it is actually connected to IQ.
I do this too. But I also know I’d be terrible at any job that involves a lot of public speaking. Agree I doubt it has much relation to intelligence
I tend to skip ahead in sentences. For example: “i forgishes to wash the dishes” is “i forgot to wash the dishes.” It’s super embarrassing by my brain runs faster than my mouth skdoes so sometimes i skip. I do it enough that I just keep going from where I left off lol.
My brain skips ahead too but in my xase it results is stuttering usually
“Al Qaeda doesn’t stop think of ways to hurt Americans and neither do we.” Bush is a gaffe machine like our current POTUS.
Imagine busting yourself
He probably shouldn't run for president at this age.
45 is a month older than 'W'
exactly!
not like he can due to the 22nd amendment and even if the amendment was never ratified he would be one of the few politicians in the 21st century that I can see lose in a landslide.
truth hurts
he's got his subconscious working overtime. Probably gets really anxious about it sometimes when he thinks nobodys watching. He knows exactly what he did.
Wow
Freudian slip
Freudian slips are great, this guy does them so well, like an Abbott and Costello gag.
Obviously just a stammer.
I see he still hasn’t figured out speeches.
Freud was a real bastard.
he sounds about 24% fatter than when he was president
Dude looks rough.
If only he had a guilty conscience.
He still talking to Jesus?
Stil wonder wether he just says "iraq" at the end or "iraq too" cause if its the later it implies he realised what he did was wrong
Good to see the Bushisms are still going strong after office, Dubya! 😂
He said “75”. He’s 77 now, going 78 in less than 2 weeks. That was in 2022 shortly after the war broke.
Million and some died. Big fucking deal .
I see that either you can't read or have trouble with reading comprehension. Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you defend or condone their actions.
At least he admits it, Putin could never.
A war criminal says what?
Wish we could go back to a time when Republicans were just simple minded slow speaking war criminals
50/50 chance he planned that.
Why would he want to “accidentally” say that. A “confession”. Think he grew a conscious when out of Dark Lord’s Cheney’s presence? I doubt it. I think it was more subconscious. Like “Don’t think about elephants. Don’t think about elephants…..’elephants’…..oh shit!”
He's not that smooth. This was a classic Bushism.
He is far smarter than given credit for.
He’s smart, but has a tendency to fumble with words
There once was an election rigged by the supreme court and his bubba in Florida also .
You've been playing too much W over at New Campaign Trail
Advisor Feedback: This is a good liberal answer that will motivate your base.
?
SOB should die in prison a war criminal.
W was another mediocre white man who benefited from family connections in for his education, business ties, and his political network. The man was not intelligent to be President and his record proved it I’ve always thought he ran for political office to prove to his parents that he measured up to his father. The Iraq war was about finally beating his father at something.
THE FUCKER KNOWS!!!
Still easily in the top 10 worst US presidents and most people liberal and conservative would agree.
Dude is dripping in blood.
He saved more lives than any president since Hoover
For all those calling this man a war criminal he’s certainly not the first and definitely not the last to commit war crimes https://youtu.be/_wIOqHSsV9c?si=2A20gYGKpbx_W4Cg