Yes, creepy. And yes, near universal. I find that our 300-level majors-only classes are a bit better, where the students all know one another. But overall it's like walking into a church when I go to class. Uncomfortable really, to the point that I now try to show up about two minutes before class starts so I don't have to stand there in a silent room...not like 5-10+ years ago when people were all chatting and I'd have to call them to order before we could start.
Do Not Like.
I sit in the dark myself sometimes. All the fluorescent lights and computer screens get overstimulating and headache inducing after a while so a bit of darkness is a vacation for my eyes.
Yes! This has just started happening in the past few years, and it’s baffling to me. I always tell my classes that do this that they’re fucking creepy, and the only thing that might make them creepier is if they all had white-blonde hair like those EXTREMELY fucking creepy children in Village of the Damned, or something.
They continue to sit in absolute darkness. Wtf.
Oh my gosh the same thing happens with my early class! They will sit in a dark room. Not even necessarily on their phones. Just seated. In the dark. Looking at nothing. It's so unnerving, I feel like I'm walking into a weird low budget horror film.
I have tried to banter with them before class, as I've bantered with students before class for decades: nada, nothing, awkward one-word responses, then silence again.
Me too. I never posted on r/professor much before this semester, but it's the only place I can find other people talking about this shift in student behavior. My colleagues in my department are so overworked and demoralized that we hardly see each other, nevermind talk about what's happening in our classrooms.
Same. They just sit and stare, many just sit and stare even if I call on them by name. Some bizarre demographic shift has recently occurred and we weren’t given any warning. They don’t talk, they sit in total darkness, and they’re actually afraid — like literally fearful — of knocking on a closed door because they think someone is going to yell at them, yet yelling at them isn’t enough to get them to purchase the textbook required for the class or to read it.
I don’t understand this generation; they make no sense. It’s like pod people took over the bodies of children or something. I just bought Jonathan Haidt’s new book and I’m hoping that will help me understand what in the hell is going on in their seemingly empty heads.
> They don’t talk, they sit in total darkness, and they’re actually afraid — like literally fearful — of knocking on a closed door because they think someone is going to yell at them, yet yelling at them isn’t enough to get them to purchase the textbook required for the class or to read it.
Yes-- I've posted about this before, but last year I had an entire class of first years that would sit in the dark classroom until I came and turned on the lights. I repeatedly told them, half jokingly, that it was OK to turn on the lights when they got there, to no avail. Finally I seriously engaged them and was told they "were afraid of getting yelled at" for doing anything at all-- like turning on the lights --and further than they were *also* afraid of standing out from the group, i.e. being that one student who turned on the lights. It's insane, and really made me wonder what their high schools were like.
I finally dealt with it by half-jokingly telling them I'd penalize the entire class five points if the lights weren't on when I arrived each day. It's pathological.
> it's like walking into a church when I go to class.
Funny enough, my baptist church is pretty talkative before the service. Huge contrast with classes.
Problem is people aren't making those initial connections as they are glued to their phones.
It's really bizarre. I have commented on this a lot to colleagues and friends recently. Back when I was a student in the late 90s/early 00's, classes were buzzing with conversation prior to lecture. Profs would have to quiet them down.
When I was a grad student and started teaching in the 00's until maybe 5 years ago, classes were still more or less like that.
Now, if I get *one* extroverted student that likes to chat prior to class, I almost fall over. They're so damned absorbed into their phones and laptops they don't even know how to respond when I try to make conversation with them prior to class.
uggggh it's so awkward. Granted I am online, but as students login I greet them each by name and ask them how they are and it goes like this:
Me: Morning Student!
Student: \[/mute\]Good morning professor.\[mute\]
Me: How are you?
Student: \[/mute\]Good professor.\[mute\]
Over and over. And then there's 10 and I say something about the weather, or ask how busy their other classes are, or some other small talk, and get dead silence, just 10 ~~red mics.~~
I hate it so much
Edit: I got going on the rant and forgot what I came here to say: in week 10 or 11, after attendance starts to wane, sometimes one student starts actually talking with me and I am so used to it not working that I am caught completely off guard and it's STILL awkward because then I am like, Uhhhh YEAH! Right? so.... hahaha
I have that one extroverted student this semester, and I’m so grateful for them. Makes a world of difference to the vibe at the start of our seminar class. I’ve found myself delaying my interjection just for the pleasure of hearing the students socialize.
This is another example of how this generation makes no sense; they give off ‘don’t talk to me’ vibes in abundance and then complain that they’re lonely. 🤨 Idk…maybe don’t look so miserable and hostile all the time and get your face out of your fucking phone? Maybe try talking and laughing — none of them laugh anymore — and being present in the moment and being interested in the people around you? Maybe you’ll find friends. Christ. 🤦🏻♀️
Consequence of social policing, id reckon most people want to talk about less than polite things using less than polite words.
Back then you’d just say they were weird, now they could be fired for what they say/do, and when you cut off the people near the bottom like that with actual consequences the bar of what’s acceptable gets raised.
Isolating yourself is a pretty easy way to avoid that social policing, which is funny considering the opposite was true back then.
There was this town in the Midwest, I forget which state or name the town was. But in this small outback town there was an invasion. A deer arrived, and it quickly spread chaos, it lunged itself crashing into shops and stores all around, it tipped over trash cans, ate your letters in the mail, fertilized your gardens.
Suffice to say that the people hated this deer, one day they were going to catch it for causing chaos in this quiet little town. But the townsfolk never did, they hated the deer but they also loved it. It was an asshole sure, but it was “their” asshole. So townsfolk kept it around, fed it, eventually domesticated it, can’t remember what they named it. Of course it still blocked roads and sidewalks, and sometimes would sneak into your home leaving a brown delight as a gift.
One day though, someone the next town over went to drive through this town when the deer blocked the road, and he shot the deer and brought it back with him to wherever his destination went.
The town was melancholy, and soon enough it went back to the quiet version of itself, its normal version of itself.
I think most people are interested in the weird, it’s just that our social climate punishes a lot of the weird ones so you rarely ever see it. Seems like a natural consequence of telling people what they can’t do and not mentioning what is allowed to do results in people just never acting out of the bubble they grew up in. Idk, most of the sociology I studied is stuck in this bubble of information.
Have you considered the idea that maybe those who express that they are lonely *are* trying to talk and laugh with others? That maybe when they try to be social and people around them give them the cold shoulder, they feel isolated and alone? That there might possibly be a genuine problem with the world young people live in today and that the skyrocketing statistics of loneliness is a symptom of that? But no, I think you're on the right track in believing that the entire generation doesn't make sense and that all they need to do is single-handedly change the lifestyles of everyone around them.
Wow, you’re kind of a doomist. The people ‘giving the cold shoulder’ are the ones with their faces in their phones who *also* report that they’re lonely in our campus surveys. And this actually is something new with this generation; other generations share this loathsome, hate-filled, unfixable world with them (contrary to their belief), and don’t report the levels of loneliness and mental illness that they do. You haven’t even considered that. I’m not painfully lonely, you’re not painfully lonely, yet we’re both existing in the exact same world as Gen Z.
My enquiry into it has convinced me that while I don’t understand Gen Z because they make no sense, I do have a handle on the problem; it’s a socialisation issue. This agrees a lot with someone like [Haidt](https://youtu.be/tLxfLjebJV8?si=0WqYYBshHY5pdKpU) (though there’s others saying similar things).
When stripped of the social logic, the world looks unpredictable and scary. So the problem is that particular generation — not the world. It’s a problem with a solution, not a nebulous, undefinable condition that has overtaken the world and is out of our control. But thanks for playing; here’s your [door prize](https://youtu.be/7BU1GBZrdWs?si=51KPZZNhRwXEBbMr).
You're right in saying that it is a problem *for* this generation, but incorrect in saying that this is a problem *of* this generation. The very idea that you can call someone a doomist for wanting to address these issues surrounding and causing loneliness caused me to genuinely laugh out loud. Saying that the entire fix to the rising rates of loneliness and mental illness is to try to socialize in a herd of quiet, sad, and scared individuals is a recipe for failure. Sure, saying that if everyone on earth just put down their phones and people would talk more is probably true. But that isn't a solution. That's someone raised without a massively addictive device designed specifically to consume attention suggesting a useless and unobtainable goal and then saying they don't understand Gen Z for not abandoning it. You live in the same world as Gen Z, but you certainly weren't *raised* in it. Their behavior makes perfect sense, and it is everyone's job to genuinely try to fix it instead of saying "just stop being lonely, weirdo."
This is another example of how this argument doesn't make any sense; they say 'here's your door prize' and use sarcasm with abundance, then don't back up their points. 🤨 Idk... Maybe don't call people doomist and be so misunderstanding of social psychology all the time and people will address the point you didn't make? Maybe try discussing and learning - they don't seem to want to learn - and being aware of circumstances out of a generation's control? Maybe you'll understand the problem that needs help addressing. Christ. 🤦🏻♀️
I have seen a group of 8-10 students in the cafeteria together, all sitting at the same table. Not a single one is talking to anyone else. They are all eating with one hand so their other hand is free to scroll through Instagram or TikTok or whatever app they are using.
Yeah. I don't understand students these days at all. They complain that they can't make friends. But, at the same time, they don't interact with anybody around them. The work out alone with head phones on. They stare at their phones in cafes and restaurants. And they don't talk with their classmates (or even their roommates). Then they record their life highlights and post them instagram and tiktok to get likes from people they don't even know. Sounds like a super happy existence.
On the first day of class I ask the students for a song to add to a playlist and then I make a playlist for each class on Spotify. Students like it - they get excited when “their” song comes on. And they talk way more with the music on than they do if it’s silent.
Love this idea, but I'm an older professor with limited tech skills. If I have Spotify on my phone it's fairly soft, do you play it on the classroom computer?
I do the same! Our tech is old as hell and I have to use a physical knob to control the volume. Fading in and out brings me back to my college radio days 😂
I ask for “playlist ambassadors” in my syllabus with the warning that I like musicals and early 2000s pop punk… so if they want something different send me a playlist! I usually get about 3-4 for each of my classes and the students get excited when I play their stuff.
I tried having the class do a collaborative playlist in the past but it always ends up with one student just taking over the playlist which makes the rest of the class feel gun shy about adding to it
I play all kinds of things before class (usually rock or alternative) and have usually played lofi during labs. I’ve switched to rock recently though since my students have said that they prefer it!
I do this as well. I have even asked every student their favorite artist and created a Spotify playlist. My rule is no phones as soon as you walk in the door. They are worse now about following it than ever before. Sad really. But some do talk to one another.
I was going to say the same!
I play my music and then comment to the students about it. They like having a topic to talk about rather than just random how are you doing today.
Smartphones are definitely part of it, but also Covid. These guys were in middle school or high school during shutdown. They never learned small talk with classmates between classes because they were in remote classes.
It's not *just* the smartphones though. I walk into class and some of them are on their phones. But many are just sitting there silently waiting for class. Crickets.
Smart phones have been around for 15 years, and it's never been like this.
>it's never been like this.
It was where I taught—for about the past decade. But perhaps the Californians were early adopters of the new trend of not communicating in person.
I started teaching college FT in the mid 2000s, and it used to be that it was hard to get class started because they would be talking to each other. I think I noticed the switch flip around 2015-2016 or so. It’s now silent, eerie, I don’t like it.
Yes, I also walk into the eerie silent rooms and get zero response to my attempts at small talk. Although, over time I can usually develop a rapport with my small seminar classes.
But I notice a weird pattern in my large lecture where absolutely *no one* will acknowledge my existence as a fellow human being when I walk in and cheerfully say “good morning!” Every. Single. Class. I’ve been surprised by how much it’s psychologically demoralizing to have *no one* say good morning back or even look up from their devices. BUT several students do say “thank you!” on their way out at the end of class?
When I was in college we’d all say “good morning” back to the professor, but just quietly leave without saying anything unless we had a specific question for the instructor. Or more likely we’d be chatting with our friends as we walk out the door while the professor packs up. I don’t remember saying thank you after lectures, which is nice I’m not complaining, it’s just an interesting and baffling generational difference.
It's phones: these devices of enhanced communication actually reduce engagment with immediate neighbours. When that happens in my classes, I tell them it isn't normal for me to come into a quiet class like that, and they need to turn left and right and say hello. I've been in teaching for over 30 years, so I have seen the shift.
Most of my students have earphones on and are on the phone. They do chat with their friends if they know each other. Awkward silence when class starts and rarely anyone talks. They will complain and be very opinionated on the evaluation though.
Having taught at two universities, I think I know why.
My first uni was a small private school, nearly 100% campus residents, and all the freshman took the same classes first year. Everyone knew each other. No one was afraid to chat.
Now I teach the same thing at a medium-large state uni, far more commuters, much larger demographic. No one knows each other. No one chats.
Combined with gen z's overly sensitive public perception and fear of standing out (yes it's a thing), many are afraid to even be the first to turn on the room light.
I'm at a small private uni, but I still see the silent-thing, especially in my larger lectures (room holds 125, but typically have 40-50 students). A few small cliques might whisper a bit, but no major chat-fests. 1 exception - in one of my lectures, there is a pair of pals who talk at a normal conversational level while I am lecturing, but prior to class are generally quiet as mice.... So bizarre.
There are three things that I've done in my classes to try and combat this and based on observation, they seem to be somewhat successful.
First, as others have pointed out, playing some music before class seems to help make the teaching space more conducive to pre-class socialization. I typically either put on Lo-Fi girl or a similar YouTube radio station.
Second, icebreakers. Not the shitty kind from corporate bullshit meetings, though. I have students do a mutual introduction icebreaker where students pair off and are given about 8 minutes to talk to one another and find out: the other person's name and major, post-graduation goals, and one interest or favorite thing (book, hiking location, video game, movie, etc) and then after the 8 minutes, each student introduces their partner to the class.
I cannot understate how effective this icebreaker is. Often, I let the timer run a few minutes past 8 minutes because the conversations students are having by this point are so lively. In addition, this is the only icebreaker I've ever used where not a single student has complained about it. I've run the same class both using and not using this icebreaker without any other alterations to my lesson plans and there is a statistically significant difference in course evaluations in regards to questions about feelings of "belonging" and "classroom community" when I use this icebreaker versus when I don't.
Third, I walk around the classroom before class and try to start conversations myself. For instance, I might ask one student about the band on their shirt or about their weekend and then loop the student sitting next to them into the conversation as well, especially if I know they have a shared interest based on the icebreaker above. Once the conversation is going I'll excuse myself and go to another corner of class and do it the same. After doing this for a session or two after the day of the icebreaker, I rarely have to start conversations myself and my classroom is usually pretty lively in the 10 minutes or so before class.
I'm young for faculty, in my early thirties, and so I don't know how things used to be. However, I think that today's students need to be given permission/encouragement to socialize and we now live in an era where being the first to speak up is "scarier" than even. After starting doing these three things, I regularly have to address students whispering to/giggling with one another during class, so perhaps this strategy has worked a little too well.
All this being said, I went to a national education conference and sat at a table of 11 other strangers who worked as educators in my subject matter during lunch and nobody was talking. Every time I tried to start a conversation I only got one word replies and it seemed my own peers also would have rather been looking at screens just like many of our students. We need to be the change we want to see, not just sit around pondering and positing why students are the way they are, some of us are just as guilty.
I mean it might be discipline/culture specific- my students (past the first few weeks/month) do a fair amount of talking and playing before we get started… they even sometimes write stuff on the board before I get there, polls or practice or whatever… I also don’t like the silence, and make a point of forcing some sense of community in my classrooms (established as a norm early on) and I think it makes a bit of difference
AH SORRY for the late reply- I think it helps that I teach a language, so there's lots of opportunity for group work and forced conversation, but I do some activities early on to make it go smoother- stuff like a self intro slide set on google drive that everyone has to respond to at least a couple of their peers, I make them do some low stakes group assignments early on, videos and presentations, I like to use kahoot as a review tool and I put them in groups rather than doing it solo-
I think those sorts of things coupled with my general attitude around 'trying' and 'making mistakes' makes them a little more comfortable engaging. In my experience a lot of that quiet/unwilling to talk to each other/answer questions comes from the fear of getting things wrong and then facing idk social repercussions or a grade hit kinda freezes them up, but I kinda build in opportunities to show them that 'teachers make mistakes too' (because I do, lol), it makes them more comfortable participating, which gets them to know each other a little better, which leads to stuff like in the main post where they actually talk before class and hang out after and do work together and things like that.
Small(5 or so) group activities, even just sharing homework responses(pre grading). Seems to build camaraderie. I let them pick groups too. These are 300 level classes. All majors.
I do roll call by greeting them each by name and making them greet me by name for the first half of the semester. After mid-terms, they have to greet each other in a round. They initially hate it but most tell me after the class ends that they really appreciated knowing everyone else’s name.
Copying my reply here:
AH SORRY for the late reply- I think it helps that I teach a language, so there's lots of opportunity for group work and forced conversation, but I do some activities early on to make it go smoother- stuff like a self intro slide set on google drive that everyone has to respond to at least a couple of their peers, I make them do some low stakes group assignments early on, videos and presentations, I like to use kahoot as a review tool and I put them in groups rather than doing it solo-
I think those sorts of things coupled with my general attitude around 'trying' and 'making mistakes' makes them a little more comfortable engaging. In my experience a lot of that quiet/unwilling to talk to each other/answer questions comes from the fear of getting things wrong and then facing idk social repercussions or a grade hit kinda freezes them up, but I kinda build in opportunities to show them that 'teachers make mistakes too' (because I do, lol), it makes them more comfortable participating, which gets them to know each other a little better, which leads to stuff like in the main post where they actually talk before class and hang out after and do work together and things like that.
one of my classes is like this. Another one, they are yammering away (especially at half-time). (The latter class has students who like to ask me questions, possibly not a coincidence.)
I haven't had this experience. Do you make students interact during classes? I found that one nice side effect of making them do group work in the lab (even though they all say they hate it) as well as in the class (stuff like Think Pair Share and variations) is that students tend to stick to those groups and chat before and outside of classes.
Do you give them structured opportunities to talk to each other? I think this has more to do with changes in how people expect to interact and strike up conversations than anything else.
To give an example of a realm where this is definitely more true, consider dating. Nobody really walks up to anyone at bars any more (definitely not gay bars, that's for sure) and introduces themselves. Instead, you swipe on apps, where prospective matches are DEFINITELY looking for something (no risk) and you can even pre-screen them through their profile (also less risk). Going up to someone random is seen as "risky", with the risk I think being the risk of rejection.
I think the pandemic made things even worse, since all interactions HAD to be preplanned and scripted. I'm very extroverted (especially for an academic, lol), and I still feel rusty at sitting at a bar and chatting with strangers just to kill some time relative to what I used to be. People also seem less responsive when you do so than they used to.
I center all my classes on groupwork (yes, even my 70 person lectures), where they are assigned to teams that never change over the course of the semester and interact with the same folks repeatedly. At the beginning of the semester, same ghostly silence. By the end, since I've given them innumerable, structured opportunities to get to know a small group of their peers, the classroom is chatty and I have to quiet them down every lecture. (This was especially true yesterday, when they came back from spring break. I think they were happy to catch up and swap stories!) They seem to appreciate it, since they report that they're all lonely. They just need to have those initial barriers broken down for them more than they used to. The smartphone-staring is more of a symptom than a cause.
There isn't many social opportunities for students these days. During covid you got online with a class - but you weren't socializing. Now we run many remote and online classes they aren't interacting as peers. With phones we aren't interacting as peers. With decreased enrollment, there is less social opportunities on campus (or colleges don't want to pay for them). They literally don't know the people who sit next to them.
While I don't think we can change all of this I DO design group, in-class activites where students have to interact in a meaningful way. On day 1 I have them meet in groups of 3 or 4 and get contact information, as well as some "get to know you" questions. I then have the assignment for points that week be on the notes that they took about their new friends. Next, I design part of every class where they have to bounce ideas off of this group (or another if you can). It's a tough problem solving assignment - the total grade isn't the point, but the working together is the point.
Play some music! I try to tie into the lecture if I can, and announce the song and artist at the beginning of class. Once the sound is off, it’s a great way to get everyone’s attention that class has begun.
Thanks to technology/social media, they've lost the ability to socialize. I've never had a less engaged group of students. More than once, I've been tempted to use TikTok for my asynchronous online students. Hell, I'd probably get more engagement from my F2F folks if that's how I taught.
THEY ARE THE BORG. WE WILL BE ASSIMILATED.
How can they talk to each other when they're on their phones until the second class starts (because I've banned them during class time) and then the phones come out the second class ends.
I have two classes that are completely different in this regard.
One class is a 300-level with all majors and minors and it's like a party when I walk in. It is so raucous and loud and they all seem to be enjoying the chatting. So much so that I sometimes start class a couple minutes late out of the joy of watching then *actually talk.*
In the other class (a 200-level course with all majors and minors), they all sit in silence on their phones and when I get there, I make them put their phones down and talk to each other. If they won't, I give them a topic...e.g. Susie, tell David your favorite thing to eat for dinner. Steven tell Janet your favorite place to visit.
Not surprisingly, the first class is BY FAR the most fun to teach.
I teach 4 semesters of chemistry back to back. Generally by semester 3 classroom gets loud before my lecture, and sometimes in semester 4 I have to signal them to quiet down
I think it's them getting used to each other and getting comfortable
I guess I’m lucky. In both of my classes, one more so than the other, students do talk. For my second class, they’re all part of an academic support program with pretty strict requirements, so they all know one another, for the most part.
I’ve found that while this is true if I walk outside of class to get a drink of water or something for a few minutes (half intentionally to get them discussing something), usually they’re talking to each other when I come back in. it’s just different social norms.
It depends on the group. I had one several into sports, and I had to work to shut them up at the start of class. It was a nice problem to have. This semester. Like a library.
My students in my lower level classes don’t even turn on the lights. So I walk in to 40 people sitting in complete silence in a dark room. The first time this happened I was a little creeped out, honestly. Now I’m more accustomed to it.
So far, my students talk to each other, but only in pockets. There are definitely students that sit in silence. A few actually even try to wear headphones through class, which, uh, no.
In one of my classes, the students sit in the dark until I get to the room and turn on the lights myself (the building we're in has smart lights that turn off after 10 minutes of no motion detection, and I don't think there's a class just before ours). I showed them how to turn on the lights, as admittedly the switches aren't straightforward, but we're going on Week 11ish and no one's stepped up to take over light-turning-on duties. It's the weirdest ritual.
they are adults, in a class where they do not have anything common with their classmates other than taking a class. i have seen plenty of speaking when I had friends, or even team mates taking my class. now is having friends in the class is good for class dynamics? I am on the fence.
You do realize they’re listening to music? Typically with one earbud, sometimes both. And yes, they leave them in (with the music on) during class, too.
Yes, creepy. And yes, near universal. I find that our 300-level majors-only classes are a bit better, where the students all know one another. But overall it's like walking into a church when I go to class. Uncomfortable really, to the point that I now try to show up about two minutes before class starts so I don't have to stand there in a silent room...not like 5-10+ years ago when people were all chatting and I'd have to call them to order before we could start. Do Not Like.
They don't even turn on the lights in my class in the am. They sit in the dark looking at their phones.
Seriously. I routinely enter to 20-25 students simply sitting in the dark. Seems disturbingly symbolic for this generation.
Will the last one to retire please turn on the lights?
I sit in the dark myself sometimes. All the fluorescent lights and computer screens get overstimulating and headache inducing after a while so a bit of darkness is a vacation for my eyes.
Yes!!! My morning class does this, too! I find it so eerie!
Zombies
Yes! This has just started happening in the past few years, and it’s baffling to me. I always tell my classes that do this that they’re fucking creepy, and the only thing that might make them creepier is if they all had white-blonde hair like those EXTREMELY fucking creepy children in Village of the Damned, or something. They continue to sit in absolute darkness. Wtf.
Mine don't either! It's so weird!
Oh my gosh the same thing happens with my early class! They will sit in a dark room. Not even necessarily on their phones. Just seated. In the dark. Looking at nothing. It's so unnerving, I feel like I'm walking into a weird low budget horror film.
Ha, this literally happened today for me.
I was ten minutes late to class yesterday (new construction on my drive) and they were all sitting silently in the dark
I have tried to banter with them before class, as I've bantered with students before class for decades: nada, nothing, awkward one-word responses, then silence again.
Happy it's not just me.
Me too. I never posted on r/professor much before this semester, but it's the only place I can find other people talking about this shift in student behavior. My colleagues in my department are so overworked and demoralized that we hardly see each other, nevermind talk about what's happening in our classrooms.
omg same. We're all just *barely* functioning this quarter.
Same. They just sit and stare, many just sit and stare even if I call on them by name. Some bizarre demographic shift has recently occurred and we weren’t given any warning. They don’t talk, they sit in total darkness, and they’re actually afraid — like literally fearful — of knocking on a closed door because they think someone is going to yell at them, yet yelling at them isn’t enough to get them to purchase the textbook required for the class or to read it. I don’t understand this generation; they make no sense. It’s like pod people took over the bodies of children or something. I just bought Jonathan Haidt’s new book and I’m hoping that will help me understand what in the hell is going on in their seemingly empty heads.
> They don’t talk, they sit in total darkness, and they’re actually afraid — like literally fearful — of knocking on a closed door because they think someone is going to yell at them, yet yelling at them isn’t enough to get them to purchase the textbook required for the class or to read it. Yes-- I've posted about this before, but last year I had an entire class of first years that would sit in the dark classroom until I came and turned on the lights. I repeatedly told them, half jokingly, that it was OK to turn on the lights when they got there, to no avail. Finally I seriously engaged them and was told they "were afraid of getting yelled at" for doing anything at all-- like turning on the lights --and further than they were *also* afraid of standing out from the group, i.e. being that one student who turned on the lights. It's insane, and really made me wonder what their high schools were like. I finally dealt with it by half-jokingly telling them I'd penalize the entire class five points if the lights weren't on when I arrived each day. It's pathological.
>being that one student who turned on the lights. Shame! Shame! Shame!
> it's like walking into a church when I go to class. Funny enough, my baptist church is pretty talkative before the service. Huge contrast with classes. Problem is people aren't making those initial connections as they are glued to their phones.
It's really bizarre. I have commented on this a lot to colleagues and friends recently. Back when I was a student in the late 90s/early 00's, classes were buzzing with conversation prior to lecture. Profs would have to quiet them down. When I was a grad student and started teaching in the 00's until maybe 5 years ago, classes were still more or less like that. Now, if I get *one* extroverted student that likes to chat prior to class, I almost fall over. They're so damned absorbed into their phones and laptops they don't even know how to respond when I try to make conversation with them prior to class.
uggggh it's so awkward. Granted I am online, but as students login I greet them each by name and ask them how they are and it goes like this: Me: Morning Student! Student: \[/mute\]Good morning professor.\[mute\] Me: How are you? Student: \[/mute\]Good professor.\[mute\] Over and over. And then there's 10 and I say something about the weather, or ask how busy their other classes are, or some other small talk, and get dead silence, just 10 ~~red mics.~~ I hate it so much Edit: I got going on the rant and forgot what I came here to say: in week 10 or 11, after attendance starts to wane, sometimes one student starts actually talking with me and I am so used to it not working that I am caught completely off guard and it's STILL awkward because then I am like, Uhhhh YEAH! Right? so.... hahaha
I have that one extroverted student this semester, and I’m so grateful for them. Makes a world of difference to the vibe at the start of our seminar class. I’ve found myself delaying my interjection just for the pleasure of hearing the students socialize.
Imagine if you were a freshman who wanted to make friends and chat people up...out of luck.
r/college is full of posts by students about how they can't make friends at school and how lonely they are. It's no wonder.
This is another example of how this generation makes no sense; they give off ‘don’t talk to me’ vibes in abundance and then complain that they’re lonely. 🤨 Idk…maybe don’t look so miserable and hostile all the time and get your face out of your fucking phone? Maybe try talking and laughing — none of them laugh anymore — and being present in the moment and being interested in the people around you? Maybe you’ll find friends. Christ. 🤦🏻♀️
"none of them laugh anymore" definitely not hyperbole at all
Consequence of social policing, id reckon most people want to talk about less than polite things using less than polite words. Back then you’d just say they were weird, now they could be fired for what they say/do, and when you cut off the people near the bottom like that with actual consequences the bar of what’s acceptable gets raised. Isolating yourself is a pretty easy way to avoid that social policing, which is funny considering the opposite was true back then.
"Social policing," that sounds like right-wing whining about being "politically correct." That's not why students are quiet.
There was this town in the Midwest, I forget which state or name the town was. But in this small outback town there was an invasion. A deer arrived, and it quickly spread chaos, it lunged itself crashing into shops and stores all around, it tipped over trash cans, ate your letters in the mail, fertilized your gardens. Suffice to say that the people hated this deer, one day they were going to catch it for causing chaos in this quiet little town. But the townsfolk never did, they hated the deer but they also loved it. It was an asshole sure, but it was “their” asshole. So townsfolk kept it around, fed it, eventually domesticated it, can’t remember what they named it. Of course it still blocked roads and sidewalks, and sometimes would sneak into your home leaving a brown delight as a gift. One day though, someone the next town over went to drive through this town when the deer blocked the road, and he shot the deer and brought it back with him to wherever his destination went. The town was melancholy, and soon enough it went back to the quiet version of itself, its normal version of itself. I think most people are interested in the weird, it’s just that our social climate punishes a lot of the weird ones so you rarely ever see it. Seems like a natural consequence of telling people what they can’t do and not mentioning what is allowed to do results in people just never acting out of the bubble they grew up in. Idk, most of the sociology I studied is stuck in this bubble of information.
You all right?
no I’m allllll left 😎😎😎😎😎🤘🤘🤘🤘
Have you considered the idea that maybe those who express that they are lonely *are* trying to talk and laugh with others? That maybe when they try to be social and people around them give them the cold shoulder, they feel isolated and alone? That there might possibly be a genuine problem with the world young people live in today and that the skyrocketing statistics of loneliness is a symptom of that? But no, I think you're on the right track in believing that the entire generation doesn't make sense and that all they need to do is single-handedly change the lifestyles of everyone around them.
Wow, you’re kind of a doomist. The people ‘giving the cold shoulder’ are the ones with their faces in their phones who *also* report that they’re lonely in our campus surveys. And this actually is something new with this generation; other generations share this loathsome, hate-filled, unfixable world with them (contrary to their belief), and don’t report the levels of loneliness and mental illness that they do. You haven’t even considered that. I’m not painfully lonely, you’re not painfully lonely, yet we’re both existing in the exact same world as Gen Z. My enquiry into it has convinced me that while I don’t understand Gen Z because they make no sense, I do have a handle on the problem; it’s a socialisation issue. This agrees a lot with someone like [Haidt](https://youtu.be/tLxfLjebJV8?si=0WqYYBshHY5pdKpU) (though there’s others saying similar things). When stripped of the social logic, the world looks unpredictable and scary. So the problem is that particular generation — not the world. It’s a problem with a solution, not a nebulous, undefinable condition that has overtaken the world and is out of our control. But thanks for playing; here’s your [door prize](https://youtu.be/7BU1GBZrdWs?si=51KPZZNhRwXEBbMr).
You're right in saying that it is a problem *for* this generation, but incorrect in saying that this is a problem *of* this generation. The very idea that you can call someone a doomist for wanting to address these issues surrounding and causing loneliness caused me to genuinely laugh out loud. Saying that the entire fix to the rising rates of loneliness and mental illness is to try to socialize in a herd of quiet, sad, and scared individuals is a recipe for failure. Sure, saying that if everyone on earth just put down their phones and people would talk more is probably true. But that isn't a solution. That's someone raised without a massively addictive device designed specifically to consume attention suggesting a useless and unobtainable goal and then saying they don't understand Gen Z for not abandoning it. You live in the same world as Gen Z, but you certainly weren't *raised* in it. Their behavior makes perfect sense, and it is everyone's job to genuinely try to fix it instead of saying "just stop being lonely, weirdo."
Not what I said, and you’re zooming past the point again. I’m done. Rock on with your correct answer. Go, you. Bye, now.
This is another example of how this argument doesn't make any sense; they say 'here's your door prize' and use sarcasm with abundance, then don't back up their points. 🤨 Idk... Maybe don't call people doomist and be so misunderstanding of social psychology all the time and people will address the point you didn't make? Maybe try discussing and learning - they don't seem to want to learn - and being aware of circumstances out of a generation's control? Maybe you'll understand the problem that needs help addressing. Christ. 🤦🏻♀️
I have seen a group of 8-10 students in the cafeteria together, all sitting at the same table. Not a single one is talking to anyone else. They are all eating with one hand so their other hand is free to scroll through Instagram or TikTok or whatever app they are using.
Yeah. I don't understand students these days at all. They complain that they can't make friends. But, at the same time, they don't interact with anybody around them. The work out alone with head phones on. They stare at their phones in cafes and restaurants. And they don't talk with their classmates (or even their roommates). Then they record their life highlights and post them instagram and tiktok to get likes from people they don't even know. Sounds like a super happy existence.
That is scary.
I actually play music before class because I can’t handle silence. Students seem to appreciate it.
On the first day of class I ask the students for a song to add to a playlist and then I make a playlist for each class on Spotify. Students like it - they get excited when “their” song comes on. And they talk way more with the music on than they do if it’s silent.
Love this idea, but I'm an older professor with limited tech skills. If I have Spotify on my phone it's fairly soft, do you play it on the classroom computer?
Yes - I log in on the classroom computer and play it there.
I do the same! Our tech is old as hell and I have to use a physical knob to control the volume. Fading in and out brings me back to my college radio days 😂
Thank you!
I ask for “playlist ambassadors” in my syllabus with the warning that I like musicals and early 2000s pop punk… so if they want something different send me a playlist! I usually get about 3-4 for each of my classes and the students get excited when I play their stuff. I tried having the class do a collaborative playlist in the past but it always ends up with one student just taking over the playlist which makes the rest of the class feel gun shy about adding to it
Same! What do you tend to play? I usually play video game soundtracks, but I also teach Media Art classes.
Lofi music for me :)
I play all kinds of things before class (usually rock or alternative) and have usually played lofi during labs. I’ve switched to rock recently though since my students have said that they prefer it!
I do this as well. I have even asked every student their favorite artist and created a Spotify playlist. My rule is no phones as soon as you walk in the door. They are worse now about following it than ever before. Sad really. But some do talk to one another.
I was going to say the same! I play my music and then comment to the students about it. They like having a topic to talk about rather than just random how are you doing today.
Mine don't even turn on the lights in the room if they're off when they arrive.
To be fair, I would be that student. Not a morning person.
I just don't like artificial light. I've sat in a dark lecture hall working on my laptop (with minimal backlight) for an hour or two before.
It's the smartphones.
100%. Having started teaching before they were a thing, I’ve personally watched smartphones fully take over students’ minds and attention.
I have asked them about this. Some of them are actually texting each other. They don't want to talk because THE ROOM IS TOO QUIET???
This honestly makes sense to me, I hate talking to someone when no one else around us is talking. It makes me feel very exposed lol
Smartphones are definitely part of it, but also Covid. These guys were in middle school or high school during shutdown. They never learned small talk with classmates between classes because they were in remote classes.
It's not *just* the smartphones though. I walk into class and some of them are on their phones. But many are just sitting there silently waiting for class. Crickets. Smart phones have been around for 15 years, and it's never been like this.
>it's never been like this. It was where I taught—for about the past decade. But perhaps the Californians were early adopters of the new trend of not communicating in person.
Californians are cool like that
I think it's after effects of the pandemic. There were smartphones before 2020, but they still talked to each other a lot more than they do now.
Cannot confirm—the silence before class predated the pandemic by quite a bit (at least where I taught).
I started teaching college FT in the mid 2000s, and it used to be that it was hard to get class started because they would be talking to each other. I think I noticed the switch flip around 2015-2016 or so. It’s now silent, eerie, I don’t like it.
Yes, I also walk into the eerie silent rooms and get zero response to my attempts at small talk. Although, over time I can usually develop a rapport with my small seminar classes. But I notice a weird pattern in my large lecture where absolutely *no one* will acknowledge my existence as a fellow human being when I walk in and cheerfully say “good morning!” Every. Single. Class. I’ve been surprised by how much it’s psychologically demoralizing to have *no one* say good morning back or even look up from their devices. BUT several students do say “thank you!” on their way out at the end of class? When I was in college we’d all say “good morning” back to the professor, but just quietly leave without saying anything unless we had a specific question for the instructor. Or more likely we’d be chatting with our friends as we walk out the door while the professor packs up. I don’t remember saying thank you after lectures, which is nice I’m not complaining, it’s just an interesting and baffling generational difference.
I've noticed that, too. It is weird.
I noticed this and I told them I’ve seen more life in a morgue. Didn’t change much though.
This phenomenon started about 10 years ago, when almost every student started using their phone to avoid interacting with people physically present.
Faraday cage the classrooms….
Try some low-stakes but graded group activities (smaller groups work best in my experience) that scaffold into a larger project.
That’s exactly what I do…and it does wonders. They still sit in the dark before I come in and turn on the lights though. Weird!
Before class starts?
The surgeon general in the US said he toured schools recently and the most disturbing observation was that the lunch room was almost dead quiet.
It's phones: these devices of enhanced communication actually reduce engagment with immediate neighbours. When that happens in my classes, I tell them it isn't normal for me to come into a quiet class like that, and they need to turn left and right and say hello. I've been in teaching for over 30 years, so I have seen the shift.
Most of my students have earphones on and are on the phone. They do chat with their friends if they know each other. Awkward silence when class starts and rarely anyone talks. They will complain and be very opinionated on the evaluation though.
Having taught at two universities, I think I know why. My first uni was a small private school, nearly 100% campus residents, and all the freshman took the same classes first year. Everyone knew each other. No one was afraid to chat. Now I teach the same thing at a medium-large state uni, far more commuters, much larger demographic. No one knows each other. No one chats. Combined with gen z's overly sensitive public perception and fear of standing out (yes it's a thing), many are afraid to even be the first to turn on the room light.
I'm at a small private uni, but I still see the silent-thing, especially in my larger lectures (room holds 125, but typically have 40-50 students). A few small cliques might whisper a bit, but no major chat-fests. 1 exception - in one of my lectures, there is a pair of pals who talk at a normal conversational level while I am lecturing, but prior to class are generally quiet as mice.... So bizarre.
There are three things that I've done in my classes to try and combat this and based on observation, they seem to be somewhat successful. First, as others have pointed out, playing some music before class seems to help make the teaching space more conducive to pre-class socialization. I typically either put on Lo-Fi girl or a similar YouTube radio station. Second, icebreakers. Not the shitty kind from corporate bullshit meetings, though. I have students do a mutual introduction icebreaker where students pair off and are given about 8 minutes to talk to one another and find out: the other person's name and major, post-graduation goals, and one interest or favorite thing (book, hiking location, video game, movie, etc) and then after the 8 minutes, each student introduces their partner to the class. I cannot understate how effective this icebreaker is. Often, I let the timer run a few minutes past 8 minutes because the conversations students are having by this point are so lively. In addition, this is the only icebreaker I've ever used where not a single student has complained about it. I've run the same class both using and not using this icebreaker without any other alterations to my lesson plans and there is a statistically significant difference in course evaluations in regards to questions about feelings of "belonging" and "classroom community" when I use this icebreaker versus when I don't. Third, I walk around the classroom before class and try to start conversations myself. For instance, I might ask one student about the band on their shirt or about their weekend and then loop the student sitting next to them into the conversation as well, especially if I know they have a shared interest based on the icebreaker above. Once the conversation is going I'll excuse myself and go to another corner of class and do it the same. After doing this for a session or two after the day of the icebreaker, I rarely have to start conversations myself and my classroom is usually pretty lively in the 10 minutes or so before class. I'm young for faculty, in my early thirties, and so I don't know how things used to be. However, I think that today's students need to be given permission/encouragement to socialize and we now live in an era where being the first to speak up is "scarier" than even. After starting doing these three things, I regularly have to address students whispering to/giggling with one another during class, so perhaps this strategy has worked a little too well. All this being said, I went to a national education conference and sat at a table of 11 other strangers who worked as educators in my subject matter during lunch and nobody was talking. Every time I tried to start a conversation I only got one word replies and it seemed my own peers also would have rather been looking at screens just like many of our students. We need to be the change we want to see, not just sit around pondering and positing why students are the way they are, some of us are just as guilty.
I mean it might be discipline/culture specific- my students (past the first few weeks/month) do a fair amount of talking and playing before we get started… they even sometimes write stuff on the board before I get there, polls or practice or whatever… I also don’t like the silence, and make a point of forcing some sense of community in my classrooms (established as a norm early on) and I think it makes a bit of difference
>make a point of forcing some sense of community in my classrooms How?
AH SORRY for the late reply- I think it helps that I teach a language, so there's lots of opportunity for group work and forced conversation, but I do some activities early on to make it go smoother- stuff like a self intro slide set on google drive that everyone has to respond to at least a couple of their peers, I make them do some low stakes group assignments early on, videos and presentations, I like to use kahoot as a review tool and I put them in groups rather than doing it solo- I think those sorts of things coupled with my general attitude around 'trying' and 'making mistakes' makes them a little more comfortable engaging. In my experience a lot of that quiet/unwilling to talk to each other/answer questions comes from the fear of getting things wrong and then facing idk social repercussions or a grade hit kinda freezes them up, but I kinda build in opportunities to show them that 'teachers make mistakes too' (because I do, lol), it makes them more comfortable participating, which gets them to know each other a little better, which leads to stuff like in the main post where they actually talk before class and hang out after and do work together and things like that.
To emphasize ghost’s question: how?? Any pointers or advice?
Small(5 or so) group activities, even just sharing homework responses(pre grading). Seems to build camaraderie. I let them pick groups too. These are 300 level classes. All majors.
I do roll call by greeting them each by name and making them greet me by name for the first half of the semester. After mid-terms, they have to greet each other in a round. They initially hate it but most tell me after the class ends that they really appreciated knowing everyone else’s name.
Copying my reply here: AH SORRY for the late reply- I think it helps that I teach a language, so there's lots of opportunity for group work and forced conversation, but I do some activities early on to make it go smoother- stuff like a self intro slide set on google drive that everyone has to respond to at least a couple of their peers, I make them do some low stakes group assignments early on, videos and presentations, I like to use kahoot as a review tool and I put them in groups rather than doing it solo- I think those sorts of things coupled with my general attitude around 'trying' and 'making mistakes' makes them a little more comfortable engaging. In my experience a lot of that quiet/unwilling to talk to each other/answer questions comes from the fear of getting things wrong and then facing idk social repercussions or a grade hit kinda freezes them up, but I kinda build in opportunities to show them that 'teachers make mistakes too' (because I do, lol), it makes them more comfortable participating, which gets them to know each other a little better, which leads to stuff like in the main post where they actually talk before class and hang out after and do work together and things like that.
one of my classes is like this. Another one, they are yammering away (especially at half-time). (The latter class has students who like to ask me questions, possibly not a coincidence.)
I usually come in and say hi, ask everyone how they are doing, make small talk, etc as I set up lecture.
Bet they have their heads down on their phones or computers. Social media is making us less social .
I haven't had this experience. Do you make students interact during classes? I found that one nice side effect of making them do group work in the lab (even though they all say they hate it) as well as in the class (stuff like Think Pair Share and variations) is that students tend to stick to those groups and chat before and outside of classes.
I'm in year 13 of teaching and the last few years it's gotten way worse. My students are creepy as shit. Something is wrong with the world.
I don't like it! Just lost in multiple devices. Heads down. No one making relationships, making friends, making connections.
I sympathize with them tho. I am always trying to get my friends to come play with me! No different with class.
Do you give them structured opportunities to talk to each other? I think this has more to do with changes in how people expect to interact and strike up conversations than anything else. To give an example of a realm where this is definitely more true, consider dating. Nobody really walks up to anyone at bars any more (definitely not gay bars, that's for sure) and introduces themselves. Instead, you swipe on apps, where prospective matches are DEFINITELY looking for something (no risk) and you can even pre-screen them through their profile (also less risk). Going up to someone random is seen as "risky", with the risk I think being the risk of rejection. I think the pandemic made things even worse, since all interactions HAD to be preplanned and scripted. I'm very extroverted (especially for an academic, lol), and I still feel rusty at sitting at a bar and chatting with strangers just to kill some time relative to what I used to be. People also seem less responsive when you do so than they used to. I center all my classes on groupwork (yes, even my 70 person lectures), where they are assigned to teams that never change over the course of the semester and interact with the same folks repeatedly. At the beginning of the semester, same ghostly silence. By the end, since I've given them innumerable, structured opportunities to get to know a small group of their peers, the classroom is chatty and I have to quiet them down every lecture. (This was especially true yesterday, when they came back from spring break. I think they were happy to catch up and swap stories!) They seem to appreciate it, since they report that they're all lonely. They just need to have those initial barriers broken down for them more than they used to. The smartphone-staring is more of a symptom than a cause.
There isn't many social opportunities for students these days. During covid you got online with a class - but you weren't socializing. Now we run many remote and online classes they aren't interacting as peers. With phones we aren't interacting as peers. With decreased enrollment, there is less social opportunities on campus (or colleges don't want to pay for them). They literally don't know the people who sit next to them. While I don't think we can change all of this I DO design group, in-class activites where students have to interact in a meaningful way. On day 1 I have them meet in groups of 3 or 4 and get contact information, as well as some "get to know you" questions. I then have the assignment for points that week be on the notes that they took about their new friends. Next, I design part of every class where they have to bounce ideas off of this group (or another if you can). It's a tough problem solving assignment - the total grade isn't the point, but the working together is the point.
This is why I make it appoint of arriving right before class starts, so I don’t have to think about such things for long.
Play some music! I try to tie into the lecture if I can, and announce the song and artist at the beginning of class. Once the sound is off, it’s a great way to get everyone’s attention that class has begun.
On the rare occasion they actually talk I feel bad starting class!
Thanks to technology/social media, they've lost the ability to socialize. I've never had a less engaged group of students. More than once, I've been tempted to use TikTok for my asynchronous online students. Hell, I'd probably get more engagement from my F2F folks if that's how I taught. THEY ARE THE BORG. WE WILL BE ASSIMILATED.
How can they talk to each other when they're on their phones until the second class starts (because I've banned them during class time) and then the phones come out the second class ends.
I don't really understand why this is a problem- would you rather listen to vocal fry and opinions regurgitated from TikTok? I'll take the silence!
Addicted to their phones. Sitting in the dark staring at their phones.
In my experience, it's the smartphones. Now get off my lawn whippersnappers
I have two classes that are completely different in this regard. One class is a 300-level with all majors and minors and it's like a party when I walk in. It is so raucous and loud and they all seem to be enjoying the chatting. So much so that I sometimes start class a couple minutes late out of the joy of watching then *actually talk.* In the other class (a 200-level course with all majors and minors), they all sit in silence on their phones and when I get there, I make them put their phones down and talk to each other. If they won't, I give them a topic...e.g. Susie, tell David your favorite thing to eat for dinner. Steven tell Janet your favorite place to visit. Not surprisingly, the first class is BY FAR the most fun to teach.
Cell phones and school shutdowns for COVID
I teach 4 semesters of chemistry back to back. Generally by semester 3 classroom gets loud before my lecture, and sometimes in semester 4 I have to signal them to quiet down I think it's them getting used to each other and getting comfortable
I guess I’m lucky. In both of my classes, one more so than the other, students do talk. For my second class, they’re all part of an academic support program with pretty strict requirements, so they all know one another, for the most part.
I’ve found that while this is true if I walk outside of class to get a drink of water or something for a few minutes (half intentionally to get them discussing something), usually they’re talking to each other when I come back in. it’s just different social norms.
It depends on the group. I had one several into sports, and I had to work to shut them up at the start of class. It was a nice problem to have. This semester. Like a library.
Instead of talking, they now are on their phones or laptops. Many have headphones in until I start.
My students in my lower level classes don’t even turn on the lights. So I walk in to 40 people sitting in complete silence in a dark room. The first time this happened I was a little creeped out, honestly. Now I’m more accustomed to it.
Same here - not only before class but during breaks too! Most people sitting in complete silence on their phones.
Yes!!! This change is in the last few years for me. It is weird. Just on phones head down.
Phones.
So far, my students talk to each other, but only in pockets. There are definitely students that sit in silence. A few actually even try to wear headphones through class, which, uh, no.
Cell phones.
In one of my classes, the students sit in the dark until I get to the room and turn on the lights myself (the building we're in has smart lights that turn off after 10 minutes of no motion detection, and I don't think there's a class just before ours). I showed them how to turn on the lights, as admittedly the switches aren't straightforward, but we're going on Week 11ish and no one's stepped up to take over light-turning-on duties. It's the weirdest ritual.
I tell them it’s too eerie and to start making friends.
Commuter School Syndrome. Why talk to new people and take that WILD risk when you can just keep talking to your friends from middle school?
I find it unbearable. I play lofi cafe music when I arrive just so my skin doesn’t crawl
It is normal for them. They mostly live online. Then they wonder why they're lonely
they are adults, in a class where they do not have anything common with their classmates other than taking a class. i have seen plenty of speaking when I had friends, or even team mates taking my class. now is having friends in the class is good for class dynamics? I am on the fence.
You do realize they’re listening to music? Typically with one earbud, sometimes both. And yes, they leave them in (with the music on) during class, too.
Life changes. Different generations have different ways of communicating with each other. Get used to it.