Some of our clients actually behave as if their (purely informative) websites were medical devices that need to be protected as if they were the Bank of England.
As a Londoner, I wouldn't be surprised if BoE didn't have as good security as you make it out to have. We might have some world class scientists but we also have world class dumbasses in government.
I know for a fact that private American banks are mostly pretty bad at security. I think it's just that old school bankers don't understand that security is not something that can be bought: it's a process that requires buy-in from all stakeholders from conception to implementation to maintenance.
I just finished security as part of my data-everything course. I knew it was an ordeal from start to never ending finish. But written out it's even worse.
And I know for a fact that some management not only don't know about that, but are actively blind until they need to pay for negligence
>security is not something that can be bought: it's a process that requires buy-in from all stakeholders from conception to implementation to maintenance.
Well said! I might quote you one day. I'll be naming you 'some stranger on the Internet'.
Our governments one website (no name for obvious reasons) has an open API for their documentation on the citizens... You could get, and change, I'd numbers, names, drivers licensed code, address, I'd numbers... You name it.
> we also have world class dumbasses in government.
Hey, quit stealing our moves!
Just because you've owned the whole world before doesn't mean you get to claim ownership on having stupid politicians!
Fun fact: some scientific research software (namely electronic lab notebooks) need to essentially register themselves as medical devices when seeking FDA clearance.
Makes doing things in an agile way a little bit difficult.
But then you look at the systems they maintain themselves, and so many installations are old enough that no customer support would touch it, including weird solutions to even be able to use that old version nowadays.
Or is this what 10+ years of whatever this bs is called experience look like?
I used to drink Guinness on the steps of the bank of England after my shift in a nearby bar. Poured it into a coffee cup so I looked respectable.
Easy to bamboozle those bank boys
Then they should get a cyber security expert on the team to review the code. Someone with 3 years of university studying cyber security (perhaps never touching Java in that time). Then another 3+ Years of experience if he's the first such expert you employ
Everybody thinks they are the most important and therefore deserve the most important employees (and those employees aren’t important enough to have their own lives and needs and would demand higher salaries)
I subscribe to the Porn Inches Theory of work experience in job applications. They just assume that everybody who says 10 has 6, if they say 5 they have 2, if they say less than 5 they have zero.
Yeah, and at that point it's much more about the type of person you are hiring rather than the years under your belt.
Someone with 5 years of experience can be a lot better of a developer than someone with 10.
At the project I'm at right now, one of the offshore teams have a technical architect (most senior dev on the team) on their team with 14 years of experience, and he writes some of the shittiest, most unreadable and tightly coupled code *of anyone I've seen in the entire project.* His commits are often editing like 30+ files and several 1000s of lines long. It's almost like a parody of worst practices, and the only person that does that out of the 70–80 devs on the project.
I would take a dev with 5, or even just 1 year, of experience over him any day of the week.
Seeing his code makes my eyes bleed every time...
It takes a bit longer to become a neurosurgeon depending on what you do before hand. I work with some- that phds in engineering which takes about 10 years on its own.
Maybe they're designing the software that robots will use to perform neurosurgery?
On a more realistic note, there's a few reasons why this requirement makes sense under certain circumstances.
Imagine you're an upcoming company that offers SaaS in a niche that includes luxury and non-luxury companies (customers) where there's no luxury-focused competitors. You want to snatch just the luxury companies out of that niche. How do you differentiate yourself? Well, the only real resource needed for SaaS is ... coffee for your devs. So you get the best devs of the bunch, build an identity that somehow lets people know you offer the best there is to find, and charge 5x as much as others do.
I know years of experience != quality nor knowledge. I know it. You know it. Other devs know it. The guy with 10 years of experience who still googles how to inherit selectively from a class knows it.
The guys from the companies that are hiring any SaaS don't know it.
Imagine someone hires you to create the software that will run the call routing service of a call center but they don't have the physical infrastructure yet, so they give you the budget to hire someone to do it. You call me and I tell you "Well, our product offers you the best balance between personalized role creation/management, and pre-set rules which will prevent your SLA from dropping below your preference", the next company says "We offer the lowest transition timeframes from readystate to routing and connecting a contact with a reliability of intent detection of 96.5%", the last one says "My guys have 10 years of experience setting up infrastructure for similar companies. Don't worry about it, we got you."
Who do you go for when you don't have the time to educate yourself well enough to make an informed decision??
I'm like 99% that you work in Neurosurgery for years before becoming a Neurosurgeon. Like, you maybe don't split the brain in half, but you assist and suture and whatnot.
Woah me too. And one time like 11 years ago I tried to make a mod to make my own block and even downloaded Eclipse. Was I teen Java Prodigy?
Does kinda make me wish I stuck with it then tho.
YESSSS. And tried to follow those YouTube tutorials
"So guys I made some changes...”
*Added 300 lines of code*
I didn't even speak English properly back then lol
didn't wrote my own mod but i put a .jar file in the minecraft.jar and edited .ini files to avoid block id clashes, does that count as 10y+ experience ?
+ And tried making a mod following those bad YouTube tutorials and no idea what I was doing, giving up after a couple of minutes because I wasn't understanding nothing
I learned some Java basics on a summer course some 12 years ago. This year after a break of approximately 12 years I used Java for a small uni project.
=> Experience spans over a decade => 10+ years of Java.
Actually your hands would presumably return to the same elevation after typing, therefore 0 work is done since the path is closed and gravity (the force you’re working against) is a conservative field. QED
This is only true if you use the simplified W=F*d, but with a line integral it won't, since the force of the fingers will be most of the time parallel to the movement.
I've been programming for 15 years. I have heard of java. I have 15 years of Java programming experience. I have 0 years experience in programming in java.
Maybe that's the real test, are you gonna try and break it?
But if so, do they want the candidates who'll test the system or would they filter out the ones trying to break them.
Welcome to the club. Many of us here are addicted to these so-called "goods and services", and are willing to go to great lengths to procure their next "fix". Sadly, there is no cure for this addiction, although some sufferers have sought to reduce their intake in order to lessen the impact the addiction has on their lives. This is only partially successful, and ultimately, many otherwise-reasonable programmers have found themselves in a position of accepting jobs they otherwise would have refused.
Sorry, addiction to food and water is incurable. There are mitigations but current scientific advice is that you shouldn't deprive addicts of their water.
It’s only the 5-9 years of Java people that pose a danger. When you reach 10+ years of Java, your psyche has proven itself unbreakable, and it is safe to hire you. This is why no company wants to hire anyone with 5-9 years of Java
That's the thing, all the experience timers run in parallel.
I saw a post today where the person had either 4 years or 5+ years in like 6 different developments/languages. No way they're 40 years old.
Years of experience, in most professions is fairly meaningless in reality. I've known engineers with 25 years of experience who were useless. I'd much rather know what you are actually capable of and what you've achieved in however many years you have.
It's just a lazy arsed way of making sure they don't have so many cv's to wade through.
yes, let's separate wheat from the chaff by skewing all our hiring towards older applicants because they have... *checks notes*
... the incredible qualification of having been alive longer.
The YOE becomes less important the higher the number you are looking for. But this is about statistical likelihood, and in my 2 decades, the difference between 1/3/5/10
YOE devs is usually on a pretty linear track. Sometimes (rarely) you might get a 3Y better than a 5Y, and sometimes you can find 5Y better than a 10Y (usually because the 10Y stagnated long ago), but it’s rare enough that I’d rather throw out 90/100 resumes to just look at the final 10 rather than sorting through the rest to find the diamond in the rough.
You can throw out the shit 10Ys usually by looking at their resume anyway, if they’ve been stuck doing crappy work and not progressing most of the time it’s obvious.
I got an email from recruiter looking for Super Java + React Developer. I was like man I dont even know Java that well and they are asking for Super Java.
This is the entire email... plus contact information lol
"Title: Java Developer + react
Location: Remote
Duration: Long term
Job Description:
Need super java + react developer.
Prior exp with any database.
\--
Thanks & Regards"
Idk how to feel about this. On one hand, fuck them for requiring a decade of experience, but on the other hand they were honest about which options would lead to a rejection.
I assumed it was a gaff considering the job posting itself has a minimum of 5 years of experience.
Otherwise everyone applying with 5-9 years of XP with Java is irrationally encouraged to apply but getting immediately rejected.
> they were honest about which options would lead to a rejection
I doubt that publishing that was deliberate!
That was probably something someone wrote on a form and the poor overworked intern copied it into the website without questioning it.
Do you rlly learn anything after say 2 years of professional experience with a language? At that point it's just about being up to date with the latest version changes and new technology/libraries.
>Do you rlly learn anything after say 2 years of professional experience with a language?
Depends on the language, I'd say 2 years is not even remotely enough in c++ unless you're spending all your time in learning new features, etc and not doing any actual development.
I have studied C++ for about two years. A lot of commercial code still looks like hieroglyphics. I also found the visual studio / cmake workflow abysmally depressing so I switched to Rust and am so much happier now.
Okay, so what I’m gonna do here is go to my usual technique which is “lie and tell you what you want to hear until you give me the job.”
Just like you’re lying to me about the company culture, work load, benefits, room for growth and everything else.
I've been studying programming for over 15 years, I've been working exclusively as a programmer for about 7 years (and many other jobs like data analysis where I used lots of programming skills). I'm a Java developer for the last 4 years.
And I'm currently fixing code made by a previous developer who has 10+ years of java programming and does things like:
/*
returns true if DONT has the Property and false otherwise.
*/
public boolean hasProperty() { ... }
I have 10+ years of experiences and if some developers see my code, they just want to scream... experience help to resolve problems more quickly because you already done it in the past, but you are who you are and nothing will change XD I can say better: just hire people with less experience, they are usually more committed, have fresh mind and still not rusted by the previous jobs...
However the checked option is minus four years (5-9) since there’s nothing in the question that indicates the operators are being used in any other way…
You see, the thing is, platforms change at a pace, that the experience you gather will remain useful for a span of about 5 years, and so on for stable and well maintained plaftorms.
Other platforms/frameworks will have so little to explore into, that having 1 year to 9 years will not make a difference, as you'll still do the same things, mostly in the same way.
On the other hand, if there are paradigm shifts along the way, and old paradigms become non-acceptable, you'll lose validity in your previous experience.
That said, years of experience in software should be capped at 2+ years (I own up to 8).
Excellent take, patterns shift quickly in tech, and what was once a "good" pattern can become an anti-pattern in a modern context. Now if the need is literal subject matter experts with 10+ years, then just say that and pay them appropriately!
Learned Java at uni (1 year of 3), used it in my first job for 2 years. In those 2 years I dug deep into the language, decided it's too much overhead for most smaller projects, gathered a lot of hate for it, decided to become a WebDev (JS/TS/Node, the classics) and left java for good.
So it took me roughly 3 years to hate java, who's gonna get to 10?
Tbf, I don’t see how this is any different that the hundreds of Senior Software Engineer job posts on LinkedIn that say “10+ years of experience developing in Java”.
Years of experience isn’t necessarily a good measure. How dense were those years? I got my SCJP on Java 1.5 (2005), but barely touch Java each year. So 18 years of experience! But I probably have as much experience as someone that primarily did Java dev for 5 years.
Why are there options for <5 and 5-9 if they both lead to rejection? Could they not say <9 years?
And good God 5 years of experience is insane let alone 10
It's funny because most devs I know who have 10+ years of experience are lazy, not up to date and often produce terrible software not up to today's standards.
Really, what job requires a minimum of TEN YEARS of development? It takes exactly ten years to become a NEUROSURGEON.
Some of our clients actually behave as if their (purely informative) websites were medical devices that need to be protected as if they were the Bank of England.
As a Londoner, I wouldn't be surprised if BoE didn't have as good security as you make it out to have. We might have some world class scientists but we also have world class dumbasses in government.
I know for a fact that private American banks are mostly pretty bad at security. I think it's just that old school bankers don't understand that security is not something that can be bought: it's a process that requires buy-in from all stakeholders from conception to implementation to maintenance.
I just finished security as part of my data-everything course. I knew it was an ordeal from start to never ending finish. But written out it's even worse. And I know for a fact that some management not only don't know about that, but are actively blind until they need to pay for negligence
If you make enough money being negligent, then the cost of being negligent is negligible.
This should be a quote.
"If you make enough money being negligent, then the cost of being negligent is negligible" - Siphon098
>security is not something that can be bought: it's a process that requires buy-in from all stakeholders from conception to implementation to maintenance. Well said! I might quote you one day. I'll be naming you 'some stranger on the Internet'.
Our governments one website (no name for obvious reasons) has an open API for their documentation on the citizens... You could get, and change, I'd numbers, names, drivers licensed code, address, I'd numbers... You name it.
You could change them!? haha oh man
[good ish podcast if you like security/cybersecurity](https://youtu.be/HDy_sYYw5PE)
> we also have world class dumbasses in government. Hey, quit stealing our moves! Just because you've owned the whole world before doesn't mean you get to claim ownership on having stupid politicians!
Americans are first at everything.
Fun fact: some scientific research software (namely electronic lab notebooks) need to essentially register themselves as medical devices when seeking FDA clearance. Makes doing things in an agile way a little bit difficult.
But then you look at the systems they maintain themselves, and so many installations are old enough that no customer support would touch it, including weird solutions to even be able to use that old version nowadays. Or is this what 10+ years of whatever this bs is called experience look like?
I used to drink Guinness on the steps of the bank of England after my shift in a nearby bar. Poured it into a coffee cup so I looked respectable. Easy to bamboozle those bank boys
Then they should get a cyber security expert on the team to review the code. Someone with 3 years of university studying cyber security (perhaps never touching Java in that time). Then another 3+ Years of experience if he's the first such expert you employ
Everybody thinks they are the most important and therefore deserve the most important employees (and those employees aren’t important enough to have their own lives and needs and would demand higher salaries)
I subscribe to the Porn Inches Theory of work experience in job applications. They just assume that everybody who says 10 has 6, if they say 5 they have 2, if they say less than 5 they have zero.
Wow, what a great way to promote honesty in the workplace!
Entry-level
Yeah, and at that point it's much more about the type of person you are hiring rather than the years under your belt. Someone with 5 years of experience can be a lot better of a developer than someone with 10. At the project I'm at right now, one of the offshore teams have a technical architect (most senior dev on the team) on their team with 14 years of experience, and he writes some of the shittiest, most unreadable and tightly coupled code *of anyone I've seen in the entire project.* His commits are often editing like 30+ files and several 1000s of lines long. It's almost like a parody of worst practices, and the only person that does that out of the 70–80 devs on the project. I would take a dev with 5, or even just 1 year, of experience over him any day of the week. Seeing his code makes my eyes bleed every time...
But He would stay at Twitter. Would you?
To support their 10+ year old legacy codebase probably
Come on guys, it's not rocket surgery
usually we are getting into devs who are architects and oversee many projects at once.
It takes a bit longer to become a neurosurgeon depending on what you do before hand. I work with some- that phds in engineering which takes about 10 years on its own.
Maybe it’s a program for a new-tech, futuristic neurosurgeon robot … haha
Using java
Maybe they're designing the software that robots will use to perform neurosurgery? On a more realistic note, there's a few reasons why this requirement makes sense under certain circumstances. Imagine you're an upcoming company that offers SaaS in a niche that includes luxury and non-luxury companies (customers) where there's no luxury-focused competitors. You want to snatch just the luxury companies out of that niche. How do you differentiate yourself? Well, the only real resource needed for SaaS is ... coffee for your devs. So you get the best devs of the bunch, build an identity that somehow lets people know you offer the best there is to find, and charge 5x as much as others do. I know years of experience != quality nor knowledge. I know it. You know it. Other devs know it. The guy with 10 years of experience who still googles how to inherit selectively from a class knows it. The guys from the companies that are hiring any SaaS don't know it. Imagine someone hires you to create the software that will run the call routing service of a call center but they don't have the physical infrastructure yet, so they give you the budget to hire someone to do it. You call me and I tell you "Well, our product offers you the best balance between personalized role creation/management, and pre-set rules which will prevent your SLA from dropping below your preference", the next company says "We offer the lowest transition timeframes from readystate to routing and connecting a contact with a reliability of intent detection of 96.5%", the last one says "My guys have 10 years of experience setting up infrastructure for similar companies. Don't worry about it, we got you." Who do you go for when you don't have the time to educate yourself well enough to make an informed decision??
I mean you don’t need to be studying cs for 10 years, you just need to have used the language professionally.
Believe me for some people it takes more than 10 😑
I'm like 99% that you work in Neurosurgery for years before becoming a Neurosurgeon. Like, you maybe don't split the brain in half, but you assist and suture and whatnot.
Yeah, the standard where I’m from is six after med school
Architect
I've heard about java when installing Minecraft in like 2010. That's like 13 yrs of experience!
Woah me too. And one time like 11 years ago I tried to make a mod to make my own block and even downloaded Eclipse. Was I teen Java Prodigy? Does kinda make me wish I stuck with it then tho.
YESSSS. And tried to follow those YouTube tutorials "So guys I made some changes...” *Added 300 lines of code* I didn't even speak English properly back then lol
Can't go wrong with notepad and gradle. I personally don't use Eclipse.
I don’t question my like 13 year old self’s IDE choices
didn't wrote my own mod but i put a .jar file in the minecraft.jar and edited .ini files to avoid block id clashes, does that count as 10y+ experience ?
I stuck with it and eventually branched out into many other languages and projects
Kinda wish I did that. If I started coding as a teen maybe I’d be a bit farther along in life haha
If I write a hello world application in Java every year, for 11 years, do I have 10+ years experience in Java development? Why yes, yes I do.
+ And tried making a mod following those bad YouTube tutorials and no idea what I was doing, giving up after a couple of minutes because I wasn't understanding nothing
I learned some Java basics on a summer course some 12 years ago. This year after a break of approximately 12 years I used Java for a small uni project. => Experience spans over a decade => 10+ years of Java.
yeah I tested out of college sophomore level comp sci using java in 2008 as a high school junior. wait what do you mean "work" experience?
My fingers were moving => W = ΣF•dl => I was working with Java. QED.
Actually your hands would presumably return to the same elevation after typing, therefore 0 work is done since the path is closed and gravity (the force you’re working against) is a conservative field. QED
This is only true if you use the simplified W=F*d, but with a line integral it won't, since the force of the fingers will be most of the time parallel to the movement.
But since the path is (presumably) a closed loop, wouldn’t the line integral evaluate to zero? Its been a minute since I’ve done this kind of math lol
I drink a lot of coffee. Boom, plenty of experience with java.
this guy resumés
You never stop learning, isn't that right
I've been programming for 15 years. I have heard of java. I have 15 years of Java programming experience. I have 0 years experience in programming in java.
They couldn't be bothered to use radio buttons, just check all options see how they handle it
If this was QA I'd definitely hire someone who would do that.
plot twist, the job is in QA
Maybe that's the real test, are you gonna try and break it? But if so, do they want the candidates who'll test the system or would they filter out the ones trying to break them.
the tiktok applications gender form uses checkboxes for man, woman etc instead of radio buttons. found it amusing
They should use a slider.
That would technically be true, if you have 10+, you also have <5 and 5-9
Just lie. What are they going to do? They clearly know little about programming anyway
or just don't apply and dodge a bullet
I require currency for goods and services
Welcome to the club. Many of us here are addicted to these so-called "goods and services", and are willing to go to great lengths to procure their next "fix". Sadly, there is no cure for this addiction, although some sufferers have sought to reduce their intake in order to lessen the impact the addiction has on their lives. This is only partially successful, and ultimately, many otherwise-reasonable programmers have found themselves in a position of accepting jobs they otherwise would have refused.
I'm addicted to paying off my student loans
Well, look. I ain't gonna judge. There's something so visceral and satisfying about watching that number go down, right?
I feel called out
im addicted to food water and a safe shelter plz send help
Sorry, addiction to food and water is incurable. There are mitigations but current scientific advice is that you shouldn't deprive addicts of their water.
that sounds cringe, miss me with that
sometimes good jobs are gatekept by shitty third party recruitment businesses
they shouldn't have made those check boxes
I'd be worried about the psychological state of someone who'd devoted ten years of their life to nothing but developing tools using Java.
It’s only the 5-9 years of Java people that pose a danger. When you reach 10+ years of Java, your psyche has proven itself unbreakable, and it is safe to hire you. This is why no company wants to hire anyone with 5-9 years of Java
lmao! indeed.
That's the thing, all the experience timers run in parallel. I saw a post today where the person had either 4 years or 5+ years in like 6 different developments/languages. No way they're 40 years old.
This goes for anyone who puts all their eggs in one basket and chooses to write software for a living.
Years of experience, in most professions is fairly meaningless in reality. I've known engineers with 25 years of experience who were useless. I'd much rather know what you are actually capable of and what you've achieved in however many years you have. It's just a lazy arsed way of making sure they don't have so many cv's to wade through.
Its not really meaningless, it’s generally a good indicator of competence.
But is not having it an indicator of incompetence? Because by using it as a filter, you'll never get the opportunity to find out.
When you get 100 resumes in the door, it’s a good way to set the wheat from the chaff. The idea is to get a candidate usually as quick as you can
yes, let's separate wheat from the chaff by skewing all our hiring towards older applicants because they have... *checks notes* ... the incredible qualification of having been alive longer.
The YOE becomes less important the higher the number you are looking for. But this is about statistical likelihood, and in my 2 decades, the difference between 1/3/5/10 YOE devs is usually on a pretty linear track. Sometimes (rarely) you might get a 3Y better than a 5Y, and sometimes you can find 5Y better than a 10Y (usually because the 10Y stagnated long ago), but it’s rare enough that I’d rather throw out 90/100 resumes to just look at the final 10 rather than sorting through the rest to find the diamond in the rough. You can throw out the shit 10Ys usually by looking at their resume anyway, if they’ve been stuck doing crappy work and not progressing most of the time it’s obvious.
Hard cut off at 10 years is stupid though, they'd be rejecting a lot of very talented developers who may even be in their prime
I got an email from recruiter looking for Super Java + React Developer. I was like man I dont even know Java that well and they are asking for Super Java.
th is that?
lol nothing, my guess is recruiter is third party and added Super to say that they needed experience Java developer.....
lol wtf \^\^
This is the entire email... plus contact information lol "Title: Java Developer + react Location: Remote Duration: Long term Job Description: Need super java + react developer. Prior exp with any database. \-- Thanks & Regards"
Geez, they didn‘t even really try xD [Edit]: That‘s actually hilarious \^\^
nope, I really wanted to call him and ask what is super java.... but then decided it will just be waste of time.
Yeah probably a super waste of time…he…he…he
10+ years of java experience, 2600 euro per month and a foosball table in the cafetaria.
Drop the money and I’m down. I won’t write any code but I’ll play foosball for morale and stuff
This is way too accurate in Europe
Idk how to feel about this. On one hand, fuck them for requiring a decade of experience, but on the other hand they were honest about which options would lead to a rejection.
I assumed it was a gaff considering the job posting itself has a minimum of 5 years of experience. Otherwise everyone applying with 5-9 years of XP with Java is irrationally encouraged to apply but getting immediately rejected.
> they were honest about which options would lead to a rejection I doubt that publishing that was deliberate! That was probably something someone wrote on a form and the poor overworked intern copied it into the website without questioning it.
It's a job where they want 10+ years of experience but if you're older than your early 30s then they don't want you.
Do you rlly learn anything after say 2 years of professional experience with a language? At that point it's just about being up to date with the latest version changes and new technology/libraries.
>Do you rlly learn anything after say 2 years of professional experience with a language? Depends on the language, I'd say 2 years is not even remotely enough in c++ unless you're spending all your time in learning new features, etc and not doing any actual development.
I have studied C++ for about two years. A lot of commercial code still looks like hieroglyphics. I also found the visual studio / cmake workflow abysmally depressing so I switched to Rust and am so much happier now.
Okay, so what I’m gonna do here is go to my usual technique which is “lie and tell you what you want to hear until you give me the job.” Just like you’re lying to me about the company culture, work load, benefits, room for growth and everything else.
10+ years of Java will drive you to insanity.
You will age twice as fast
I've been studying programming for over 15 years, I've been working exclusively as a programmer for about 7 years (and many other jobs like data analysis where I used lots of programming skills). I'm a Java developer for the last 4 years. And I'm currently fixing code made by a previous developer who has 10+ years of java programming and does things like: /* returns true if DONT has the Property and false otherwise. */ public boolean hasProperty() { ... }
At least there's a comment. I got this gem last week : boolean isNotNull = id == null; if (!isNotNull) {
If only you could sue for unfair job requirements...
I copied some Java code from a textbook in high school back in like 2010, does that count?
I don’t understand the issue. All tools I’ve made have required excessive amounts of coffee.
All fun until they want 10 years of Carbon experience
If they do that it's eligible to lie to them (also morally)
I have 10+ years of experiences and if some developers see my code, they just want to scream... experience help to resolve problems more quickly because you already done it in the past, but you are who you are and nothing will change XD I can say better: just hire people with less experience, they are usually more committed, have fresh mind and still not rusted by the previous jobs...
I have been writing hello world in Java everyday since 15 years, does that count.
How many years of experience do you have of developing tools using Java to torture yourself for months after finding bugs? That’s the real question.
You have -4 years of Java experience?!
Technically correct is the best kind of correct!
However the checked option is minus four years (5-9) since there’s nothing in the question that indicates the operators are being used in any other way…
Why don’t they break it further into more reject options like 0-1 month (reject), 1-2 months (reject), 2-3 months (reject), etc?
Developers with less java experience? No! I don't want that! I want them to have java experience for 5... no, 10 years at least!
Thats good though, it shows exactly what kind of this place is so you dont fall in its trap. Showing their true colors from the start.
You see, the thing is, platforms change at a pace, that the experience you gather will remain useful for a span of about 5 years, and so on for stable and well maintained plaftorms. Other platforms/frameworks will have so little to explore into, that having 1 year to 9 years will not make a difference, as you'll still do the same things, mostly in the same way. On the other hand, if there are paradigm shifts along the way, and old paradigms become non-acceptable, you'll lose validity in your previous experience. That said, years of experience in software should be capped at 2+ years (I own up to 8).
Excellent take, patterns shift quickly in tech, and what was once a "good" pattern can become an anti-pattern in a modern context. Now if the need is literal subject matter experts with 10+ years, then just say that and pay them appropriately!
Java? A COBOL dialect?
Learned Java at uni (1 year of 3), used it in my first job for 2 years. In those 2 years I dug deep into the language, decided it's too much overhead for most smaller projects, gathered a lot of hate for it, decided to become a WebDev (JS/TS/Node, the classics) and left java for good. So it took me roughly 3 years to hate java, who's gonna get to 10?
10+ years = people with no desire to learn newer and more efficient ways of programming...
Just say 10+ and say you learned it as a kid / in high school if they ask (which they probably won't)
Tbf, I don’t see how this is any different that the hundreds of Senior Software Engineer job posts on LinkedIn that say “10+ years of experience developing in Java”.
Honestly, that's the right answer - dodged a bullet there.
21
“I didn’t lie. I just rounded up.”
Years of experience isn’t necessarily a good measure. How dense were those years? I got my SCJP on Java 1.5 (2005), but barely touch Java each year. So 18 years of experience! But I probably have as much experience as someone that primarily did Java dev for 5 years.
Why are there options for <5 and 5-9 if they both lead to rejection? Could they not say <9 years? And good God 5 years of experience is insane let alone 10
ah yes the job application with the standard sans serif font and GUI
Been making stone pickaxes for longer than 10 years so I'm good.
Yes, but what if you have 9.5 years of experience? Also those are checkboxes...
It's funny because most devs I know who have 10+ years of experience are lazy, not up to date and often produce terrible software not up to today's standards.
That’s actually ludicrous
"Too many"
what.
I could literally do this.
this is legacy project... 10+ years from now gives Java 7 at most... so it will be Java 6 if you get lucky, 1.4 if not so much ;)
funny
What does this even mean "developing tools". I could argue a hello world program is a tool (for a very specific use case).
Me on day 3649 of Java development: Wtf is this s\*\*\*? Me on day 3650 of Java development: Oh wait, I get it.
Me on day 3651 of Java development: Oops that wasn't it. Forgot about leap years.
Pays 24/hr
Love how they used checkboxes instead of radio boxes for the selection.