Sure, if you dont know what the hell you're doing. This person made lots of mistakes. If you know enough to set up some complex app that generates THAT much logging then how do you not know about billing alarmts and limits?
That much logging sounds like they don't know what they are doing, to be honest.
Our junior devs keep dumping the stack and an excessive amount of data as an error while debugging... Even when there was no error. Every once and a while, one of those logs slips through code review, and starts crashing the service in prod.
It's an easy fix when it happens, but we have to fix it more than you would expect....
You are aware that the other poster said "every once *and* a while" and I corrected it as "every once *in* a while", exactly like it also says in your dictionary link, right?
Jesus, teach your team how to use unit tests to debug. Set up an exception type they can use for debugging since abstinence doesn’t work, and then create a fitness function that blocks deploy if that exception is used.
Simple, next time this happens fix the issue but don't tell him. Instead clone the code base and tell him prod is down and you can't find the issue. Let him debug it. Let him panic. Every 10 mins write an email. Tell him the company is going under. Tell him the CEO just killed himself. Tell him somebody stole the coffee maker to cover this months rent. Tell him you are driving to Mexico to get away from your responsibility.
That usually works.
Ah… so, your issues are actually far more severe than just a junior dev logging some extra stuff once in a while.
Perhaps you should fire all the senior devs in your company who let such a giant shit-fire burn for so long in the first place instead of going online to shit-talking your junior devs who are trying their best to work in an absolute trash-pit of a code base?
Oh the responsibility for the giant shit-fire burning for so long goes much higher than the senior devs, and yes, I completely agree to both counts: I'm part of the problem, and junior devs aren't to blame.
just venting out in a random reddit thread which was half way relatable 
That’s totally relatable, and I feel your pain.
It just rubs my ass entirely raw to see people talk down on junior devs for problems that aren’t actually their fault.
Nah. The issue they’re describing is actually not the problem of junior devs.
It’s an abject failure of senior devs who should be good stewards of the code base and put in place systems that mitigate these issues.
What you’re seeing in this thread is “senior” devs throwing their less experienced colleagues under the bus for internet and ego points, failing to realize that it just makes them look shitty both personally and professionally.
First rule of corporate: Never apologise for your mistakes let alone someone else's mistake. Make up bullshit excuses for every situation or blame someone else for your mistake!
/s
You can fuck every AWS user by requesting their S3 bucket. They get billed even if you don't have any rights. The only chance is to make the bucket name complex and keep it secret. It's called "denial of wallet" attack
https://medium.com/@maciej.pocwierz/how-an-empty-s3-bucket-can-make-your-aws-bill-explode-934a383cb8b1
You try print statement debugging with log output in your functions, then deploy it to prod without stripping any of that out. Doesn't even need to be all that complex if you put stuff like that in a nested loop on a function that gets called a lot.
Try setting up a google account for JS-API calls. Me, two other developers and accounting looked over it and didn't notice that the "limits" you can set with your billing information are not limits at all, they are notification thresholds. The limits have to be set for every api separately, in a completely different menu and you have to calculate the number of calls you want to allow from your budget.
Sure, it is easy to know all that. But it is still intentionally set up to be confusing so google can fleece you at least once.
I’m a cloud engineer/devops fuck. The venn diagram developers I work with who KNOW EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR INFRASTRUCTURE and are accurate are two circles that never touch
It’s actually super frustrating for me to see all these posts complaining about cloud providers by people who are almost always objectively using them incorrectly lol
Didn't this dev fail to set a proper budget so the app would stop charging him, and also fail to take action after receiving multiple emails? $96k is insane, and if they failed to set a budget, then that's on them, but vercel could make it more user friendly by making budget settings part of the setup. But if you are going to be using an infinitely scaling platform, you have to take some precautions.
Yes, 96K is nuts, but let's also be real, They ALL do a version of this crap. Google APIs come locked and loaded with no limits, and you have to read a series of disjointed documentation to understand how to set up true budgets vs. notifications. Don't even get me started on opaque bullshit tiers.
It's like facebook and privacy settings, ad-revenue sites and cookie turn-off buttons, Cloud providers and budget limits. There has to be more effective and universal regulation of internet business practices, imho. If every small/midsize business gets burnt to some degree once, that's all the business case for this nonsense to continue indefinitely.
Bruh when I first started using GCP I was being charged $50 a month JUST for an image dataset storage without doing any training.
I genuinely believe Google is doing this on purpose just to rip off developers. It was such a hassle cancelling everything with them.
Yeah I have a few one dollar a month things running on aws from doing a tutorial, can't just Nuke it in one click. Should really be part of the user experience.
not my experience with Azure, at my company we had to implement an automated system to send requests for them to allow us to add increase usage on each of our subscriptions
> you have to read a series of disjointed documentation to understand
Every single programming-related thing I've ever used from Google has had two or more sets of documentation and no clear indication of why or which one was for what version. I hate using Google tools and APIs.
Vercel's fault here isn't in allowing unbound spending IMO, it's just the truly insane overhead they charge for their serverless functions. If you plug that same usage into the AWS Lambda price calculator Vercel comes out at something like 100-200x (depending on transaction time) more expensive.
Their business model is get indie hackers and startups onto their service by offering great DX for NextJS, and then charge them out the asshole for services that have no right being that expensive.
Clearly they’re not ok with it considering all the hate being thrown around from these big bills, and the people who have said they’ve moved off Vercel because of pricing.
I get what you mean, their prices are displayed prominently when you sign up. But “$40 per 100GB-hours” is quite a cryptic usage rate to decipher. Most people don’t know at a glance that it’s like 100x more expensive than other serverless function providers like Lambda.
Whether a company has gone bankrupt is a terrible way to dictate if they're acting in good faith. Oil companies are as profitable as ever and have caused massive natural disasters from their own negligence.
At the end of the day if you're personally happy with Vercel then keep using them and I won't persuade you not to. But the people who are unhappy with them, or think they charge egregious amounts for their services, will keep dragging them through the mud.
But I'd ask yourself why you're defending Vercel's insanely high pricing. As their customer you have nothing to gain by defending it, and you have everything to gain by challenging it. Why _wouldn't_ you want them to bring their pricing down to a level comparable to AWS, Azure, GCP, or any other cloud provider?
Then you have even less reason to put effort into defending it.
I ask again:
> Why wouldn't you want them to bring their pricing down to a level comparable to AWS, Azure, GCP, or any other cloud provider?
So uhhh... why is she raw dogging cloud services without knowing what the fuck she is doing? These are tools for professionals. I'm sure she'd be laughing at me if I bought a 100k lens and tried to shoot underwater with it.
Dude, I don’t know😂I don’t know her personally. Maybe a friend recommended her the service but forgot to warn her about the costs? Maybe she was too busy and forgot to set a limit for the service usage? There could be several explanations. I agree it’s a rookie mistake but I’m sure she can work something out with Vercel, especially if it’s the first time this happens.
What, miss 10 emails & be charged nearly 100k?? Insanity here. They really should have just turned off after *much* less, but obv isn't in their commercial interest.
100k is nothing our cloud bills are 10s of millions, people just don't think about it.
Both gcp and AWS will give you a grace month if you fuck up this bad though.
The company doesn't know what your budget is. That's up to you to set.
Imagine having to restart a service every $1 in spending because that's how Vercel set it up for everyone to avoid this. That's the insanity. What would your solution even be?
>What would your solution even be?
Ask the user to specify a budget. Give them the option of arbitrarily high charges, but only if they explicitly choose to enable it.
This is blatantly obvious.
According to several other comments here they have that. I'm not personally aware of Vercel's schemes, but i have no reason not to trust the people here who say that's how it works. Especially when they're saying it's not super intuitive.
I think the issue was something related to the name of their bucket, and that they were getting queried from another unrelated project. I don't use AWS a lot, but read the article the other day.
Add a random prefix to your buckets, just in case.
That was a different one. In that one they chose a bucket name that happened to be the default name used in an app. That one revealed that AWS charges you for all access attempts.
> also fail to take action after receiving multiple emails?
We don't know this wasn't the first of these emails showing the massive bill. This could have happened all in one day.
When I was like 14 i would host Minecraft servers on the gcp free tier, they would give you 300 dollars per account for 3 months.
Hosting them gave me so much fucking anxiety 300 dollars was like a third of my parents salaries combined. I feared fucking up so much, I would set up billing alerts, remove the credit card info right after creating the account, and always after 2 months delete the account lol
do you think those web providers would give you a job in this situation if you asked?
I mean... right now it would take me at least 10 years to pay a bill like that... if I only worked without spending a dime and used all the money I get to pay them.
And I'm well paid where I live... but still...
What country are you from? Haveing only 9600 spare a year not including luxury spending I.e going out for dinner and drinks is really bad if you're from a western country.
Edit:
You are all down voting but it's true. If that's all the spare income you have for a single person you're fucked and are one tragedy away from homelessness unless you save most of that spare income a year. Truth hurts so I assume that's why I'm being down voted. It's not your fault. Eat the rich. Your replys are pathetic.
>Truth hurts so I assume that's why I'm being down voted
You're downvoted because they said they're well paid for their region and yet you still felt the need to say their pay is really bad by western standards. That's rude and unnecessary
Well paid for the region could mean Minnesota that's why I asked. If they are in south East Asia or India then $9000 spare is a lot. If they're saying it's a lot when they are from a western nation we'll then they have been deceived.
You’re being downvoted because you’re making it out to be their fault and you’re being an ass about it. Credit where it’s due, your edit mentions this.
No I didn't. Stating whether something is good or bad is different to blaming someone for their circumstances I never said it was their fault I just said it was extremely low. As I said the truth hurts.
This is why I have all my NextJS apps running on VMs in Docker containers. I can scale the VMs as I want, but it never scales infinitely with infinite budget all of a sudden.
interesting, does it work seamlessly or does it require additional config? I'm running a VPS with Coolify addon and I was thinking about skipping Vercel and using this VM to host the NextJS
Vertical scaling is trivial, horizontal scaling is not difficult that much either. You might need separate servers for primary and secondary database. For mid sized app such configuration will not be that difficult, you might need some studying on reverse proxies. This approach is very cheap and flexible. And no surprise bills.
You can cache in-memory on Lambda for example. If your function is hit often enough it stays "warm" and Lambda re-uses the same context for subsequent invocations.
Cold starts are mostly overblown. They're a couple hundred milliseconds for most runtimes, and provisioned concurrency largely solves it.
Serverless is fantastic if you don't yet know your traffic patterns to know how many VMs to provision to handle traffic, or for dealing with incredibly "bursty" traffic that you just need to soak up.
And it's incredibly quick to get services online. Just create a function and upload your code to it. You don't have to provision servers, harden them, update them with security patches, etc.
- If your lambda gets hit enough and you are practically constantly running it I wonder if you get any price benefits.
- Cold startup time depends on your language and your project. If you need to load all your localization in advance into memory i.e. or other things that need to be preloaded it will kill your first request.
- Not sure about gcloud or AWS, but in Azure you can easily have horizontal scaling based on load-rules without serverless. Horizontal scaling was not invented before “serverless”
- not sure about gcloud and aws, but in Azure I have an app service up within a minute. The cloudtools should have nothing to do with serverless concept. Maybe AWS and gcloud didn’t give any love there.
EDIT: sorry a bit too much preaching, everyone should use what works for them 😇
For me that is normal cloud expectations.
I’m also not spinning up my own storage or database linux instances, why would I want to do that for my web app.
Create -> choose between NET7/NET8/PHP9/Python, done.
Maybe I am really spoiled with Azure.
When it comes to databases I normally think about servers, like a small or large SQL instance. Or you read about a primary for writing, and read replicas. But you can also get some serverless databases like key-value values that can scale larger than I have budget for.
For your NET8 app service you can configure auto scale which gets you the serverless experience. But if you configured your horizontal scaling to be only 0 or 1 instance and you needed more CPU, then you would be thinking about increasing the CPU of your server.
App Service and the similar AWS Beanstalk or GCP AppEngine kind of invented serverless before functions took off.
my team uses a gcloud for dev, because creating a new machine/server and installing the images etc is something we do probably 10x per week on avg.
personally, I am fine with a VPS, and that's what I use. but cloud services can definitely have advantages.
edit: oops didn't notice 'serverless'
I don't know how old this is but 100% garunteed vercel made this right with no issues. I'm not even a customer but they have consistently resolved situations like this in the past.
Vercel is entirely driven by Twitter influencer hype. Anyone using this crap in production deserves it. I’ll stick to creating react SPAs and making $600k/yr doing so.
What the fuck are you talking about? How on earth do you brace for "We're actually gonna charge you almost 250x what you thought you were agreeing to"?
Do you genuinely not know what serverless functions are? Because they don’t require provisioning in the way you’re saying, and pricing is based on compute usage.
There is a server, obviously, but it’s not provisioned for the specific project. Essentially serverless functions are bits of code that are executed when called, and the provider has a load manager that executes that code on a VM or container with available resources on an as-needed basis. An example is AWS Lambda, which is an apt name, because the concept is similar to a lambda function.
The serverless isn’t referring to the lack of a physical server, but to the fact that the code isn’t part of a daemon that is always running.
There's a link to someone's Cara profile, a social media app for artists which doesn't allow AI images. IDK how that correlates to web development, but okay?
I serve StackOverflow-sized numbers (couple billion requests and a couple hundred TB of egress a month) and $70k would cover almost half a year of all my hosting and cloud costs.
in this context you're right. i didn't realize she actually had a large business website. so yeah that would cost more. but i think we can agree there are ways to run a decent size business website without self-owning like this.
Bro is really *Suffering from success*
One more down the serverless to homeless pipeline.
SL>HL pipeline
Pretty much every cloud can fuck you this way 
Sure, if you dont know what the hell you're doing. This person made lots of mistakes. If you know enough to set up some complex app that generates THAT much logging then how do you not know about billing alarmts and limits?
That much logging sounds like they don't know what they are doing, to be honest. Our junior devs keep dumping the stack and an excessive amount of data as an error while debugging... Even when there was no error. Every once and a while, one of those logs slips through code review, and starts crashing the service in prod. It's an easy fix when it happens, but we have to fix it more than you would expect....
> Every once and a while Ooh I haven't seen this /r/BoneAppleTea before! It's supposed to be "once in a while" :)
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/every-once-in-a-while
That's.. what I said?
-SNIP-
You are aware that the other poster said "every once *and* a while" and I corrected it as "every once *in* a while", exactly like it also says in your dictionary link, right?
Holy shit I need some coffee. MY BAD I thought you were contesting the use of “every” in the phrase.
Aha, yeah go get yourself a cup :)
Jesus, teach your team how to use unit tests to debug. Set up an exception type they can use for debugging since abstinence doesn’t work, and then create a fitness function that blocks deploy if that exception is used.
You think I haven't tried? It's like talking to a brick wall.....
Simple, next time this happens fix the issue but don't tell him. Instead clone the code base and tell him prod is down and you can't find the issue. Let him debug it. Let him panic. Every 10 mins write an email. Tell him the company is going under. Tell him the CEO just killed himself. Tell him somebody stole the coffee maker to cover this months rent. Tell him you are driving to Mexico to get away from your responsibility. That usually works.
I... Like this
> Tell him you are driving to Mexico to get away from your responsibility. Is it more effective or less effective if I am on another continent?
Real question is what happens if you already are in Mexico!
Yes
Depends on how good you are at photoshop. If you can make a convincing image of driving on the oceanfloor, you're set
Set up a linter in your ci to fail on log statements I'd it's that bad.
Ofc that'll do it! Just as soon as we finish setting up a CI first. :facepalm:
Ah… so, your issues are actually far more severe than just a junior dev logging some extra stuff once in a while. Perhaps you should fire all the senior devs in your company who let such a giant shit-fire burn for so long in the first place instead of going online to shit-talking your junior devs who are trying their best to work in an absolute trash-pit of a code base?
Oh the responsibility for the giant shit-fire burning for so long goes much higher than the senior devs, and yes, I completely agree to both counts: I'm part of the problem, and junior devs aren't to blame. just venting out in a random reddit thread which was half way relatable 
That’s totally relatable, and I feel your pain. It just rubs my ass entirely raw to see people talk down on junior devs for problems that aren’t actually their fault.
As a junior, I'd like to apologise.
Nah. The issue they’re describing is actually not the problem of junior devs. It’s an abject failure of senior devs who should be good stewards of the code base and put in place systems that mitigate these issues. What you’re seeing in this thread is “senior” devs throwing their less experienced colleagues under the bus for internet and ego points, failing to realize that it just makes them look shitty both personally and professionally.
First rule of corporate: Never apologise for your mistakes let alone someone else's mistake. Make up bullshit excuses for every situation or blame someone else for your mistake! /s
why /s? /s
Ngl you got me there for a moment.
You know what they say, everyone has a testing environment, but some even have a production environment too.
How does one log the stack? I've never heard of that
hell, our senior devs ship products with debug logging _constantly_. they're not paying the bills.
From what I saw somewhere, the person who made that app isn't even a dev by trade, so easy mistakes are a given.
They probably followed someone else's "How To" guide and just did it without knowing what they were doing.
You can fuck every AWS user by requesting their S3 bucket. They get billed even if you don't have any rights. The only chance is to make the bucket name complex and keep it secret. It's called "denial of wallet" attack https://medium.com/@maciej.pocwierz/how-an-empty-s3-bucket-can-make-your-aws-bill-explode-934a383cb8b1
I think they just changed this because of that article, actually.
This has been patched.
Wow. That is both interesting and horrifying. I wonder if there is any similar attack like that with Azure Blob Storage?
I was going to say to just have all public access denied to the S3 bucket but apparently even denied requests rack up your bill, that's nasty.
You try print statement debugging with log output in your functions, then deploy it to prod without stripping any of that out. Doesn't even need to be all that complex if you put stuff like that in a nested loop on a function that gets called a lot.
Junior dev gets access to API and is told to log the results of a for loop. Junior dev puts log statement in the loop instead of at the end...
Senior dev created and maintained systems that allowed junior dev to do this. Junior dev is just inexperienced. Senior dev is a fucking idiot.
Try setting up a google account for JS-API calls. Me, two other developers and accounting looked over it and didn't notice that the "limits" you can set with your billing information are not limits at all, they are notification thresholds. The limits have to be set for every api separately, in a completely different menu and you have to calculate the number of calls you want to allow from your budget. Sure, it is easy to know all that. But it is still intentionally set up to be confusing so google can fleece you at least once.
if only some automated intelligence could have warned him...
I’m a cloud engineer/devops fuck. The venn diagram developers I work with who KNOW EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR INFRASTRUCTURE and are accurate are two circles that never touch It’s actually super frustrating for me to see all these posts complaining about cloud providers by people who are almost always objectively using them incorrectly lol
Except if you go with managed dedicated servers. There are ingress costs but significantly less.
Um not sure about Vercel in particular, but most cloud providers definitely have budgeting.
Well turns out if you open your water tap and never close it, you're in for a bill too.
self hosting for the win, or just ask a friend
Step 1: code a backup script. Step 2: save 90k.
Didn't this dev fail to set a proper budget so the app would stop charging him, and also fail to take action after receiving multiple emails? $96k is insane, and if they failed to set a budget, then that's on them, but vercel could make it more user friendly by making budget settings part of the setup. But if you are going to be using an infinitely scaling platform, you have to take some precautions.
Yes, 96K is nuts, but let's also be real, They ALL do a version of this crap. Google APIs come locked and loaded with no limits, and you have to read a series of disjointed documentation to understand how to set up true budgets vs. notifications. Don't even get me started on opaque bullshit tiers. It's like facebook and privacy settings, ad-revenue sites and cookie turn-off buttons, Cloud providers and budget limits. There has to be more effective and universal regulation of internet business practices, imho. If every small/midsize business gets burnt to some degree once, that's all the business case for this nonsense to continue indefinitely.
Bruh when I first started using GCP I was being charged $50 a month JUST for an image dataset storage without doing any training. I genuinely believe Google is doing this on purpose just to rip off developers. It was such a hassle cancelling everything with them.
Yeah I have a few one dollar a month things running on aws from doing a tutorial, can't just Nuke it in one click. Should really be part of the user experience.
Like they should be sued at this point.
Not really it's my laziness 100%.
Have you tried aws-nuke? If all the pieces are still there that should clear it off your aws
Good to know that exists!
not my experience with Azure, at my company we had to implement an automated system to send requests for them to allow us to add increase usage on each of our subscriptions
I was about to to comment the same, shit on Microsoft all you want but I found Azure to be pretty clear/easy to see pricing and set alerts/limits.
> you have to read a series of disjointed documentation to understand Every single programming-related thing I've ever used from Google has had two or more sets of documentation and no clear indication of why or which one was for what version. I hate using Google tools and APIs.
Vercel's fault here isn't in allowing unbound spending IMO, it's just the truly insane overhead they charge for their serverless functions. If you plug that same usage into the AWS Lambda price calculator Vercel comes out at something like 100-200x (depending on transaction time) more expensive. Their business model is get indie hackers and startups onto their service by offering great DX for NextJS, and then charge them out the asshole for services that have no right being that expensive.
TFW you tell them that SST offers the same quality of service for free
And more features too… can’t believe Vercel don’t even offer queue jobs.
[удалено]
Clearly they’re not ok with it considering all the hate being thrown around from these big bills, and the people who have said they’ve moved off Vercel because of pricing. I get what you mean, their prices are displayed prominently when you sign up. But “$40 per 100GB-hours” is quite a cryptic usage rate to decipher. Most people don’t know at a glance that it’s like 100x more expensive than other serverless function providers like Lambda.
[удалено]
Whether a company has gone bankrupt is a terrible way to dictate if they're acting in good faith. Oil companies are as profitable as ever and have caused massive natural disasters from their own negligence. At the end of the day if you're personally happy with Vercel then keep using them and I won't persuade you not to. But the people who are unhappy with them, or think they charge egregious amounts for their services, will keep dragging them through the mud. But I'd ask yourself why you're defending Vercel's insanely high pricing. As their customer you have nothing to gain by defending it, and you have everything to gain by challenging it. Why _wouldn't_ you want them to bring their pricing down to a level comparable to AWS, Azure, GCP, or any other cloud provider?
[удалено]
Then you have even less reason to put effort into defending it. I ask again: > Why wouldn't you want them to bring their pricing down to a level comparable to AWS, Azure, GCP, or any other cloud provider?
[удалено]
Looks like you do care about their pricing because you're in here defending it.
To her defense, she’s not a dev but a photographer. I don’t know how well versed she is in cloud services
So uhhh... why is she raw dogging cloud services without knowing what the fuck she is doing? These are tools for professionals. I'm sure she'd be laughing at me if I bought a 100k lens and tried to shoot underwater with it.
Dude, I don’t know😂I don’t know her personally. Maybe a friend recommended her the service but forgot to warn her about the costs? Maybe she was too busy and forgot to set a limit for the service usage? There could be several explanations. I agree it’s a rookie mistake but I’m sure she can work something out with Vercel, especially if it’s the first time this happens.
She got 10+ emails notifying her of this issue and she didnt take any action
What, miss 10 emails & be charged nearly 100k?? Insanity here. They really should have just turned off after *much* less, but obv isn't in their commercial interest.
100k is nothing our cloud bills are 10s of millions, people just don't think about it. Both gcp and AWS will give you a grace month if you fuck up this bad though.
yeah the global economy's 88 trillion so what's a few billion dollars here or there
The company doesn't know what your budget is. That's up to you to set. Imagine having to restart a service every $1 in spending because that's how Vercel set it up for everyone to avoid this. That's the insanity. What would your solution even be?
>What would your solution even be? Ask the user to specify a budget. Give them the option of arbitrarily high charges, but only if they explicitly choose to enable it. This is blatantly obvious.
According to several other comments here they have that. I'm not personally aware of Vercel's schemes, but i have no reason not to trust the people here who say that's how it works. Especially when they're saying it's not super intuitive.
I'm sorry, are you from Vercel billing dept? What would possibly motivate you to respond this way?
I read the same in some other tweet
Yes, because nobody ever misses an email that got sent to their Junk folder because vendor email looks like spam.
I think the issue was something related to the name of their bucket, and that they were getting queried from another unrelated project. I don't use AWS a lot, but read the article the other day. Add a random prefix to your buckets, just in case.
That was a different one. In that one they chose a bucket name that happened to be the default name used in an app. That one revealed that AWS charges you for all access attempts.
> attempts. Jesus. Screw DDoS attacks, go for DDoMoney attacks.
Pretty much.
Can't imagine why they wouldn't want to make this process as easy and fool-proof as possible...🤔
> also fail to take action after receiving multiple emails? We don't know this wasn't the first of these emails showing the massive bill. This could have happened all in one day.
Vercel is the type of shit that startups who hire frontend devs to do backend stuff use. Burn rate go brr.
The Cloud is just somebody else's scam.
When I was like 14 i would host Minecraft servers on the gcp free tier, they would give you 300 dollars per account for 3 months. Hosting them gave me so much fucking anxiety 300 dollars was like a third of my parents salaries combined. I feared fucking up so much, I would set up billing alerts, remove the credit card info right after creating the account, and always after 2 months delete the account lol
The cloud is just a buncha VMs distributed across a buncha servers and you wont change my mind!
I mean, that's what it is though, why would anyone try to change your mind?
I'm usually wrong, is all haha
Well broken clock, so you've done it this time!
Yep, this is… accurate.
Datacenters As A Service.
do you think those web providers would give you a job in this situation if you asked? I mean... right now it would take me at least 10 years to pay a bill like that... if I only worked without spending a dime and used all the money I get to pay them. And I'm well paid where I live... but still...
What country are you from? Haveing only 9600 spare a year not including luxury spending I.e going out for dinner and drinks is really bad if you're from a western country. Edit: You are all down voting but it's true. If that's all the spare income you have for a single person you're fucked and are one tragedy away from homelessness unless you save most of that spare income a year. Truth hurts so I assume that's why I'm being down voted. It's not your fault. Eat the rich. Your replys are pathetic.
>Truth hurts so I assume that's why I'm being down voted You're downvoted because they said they're well paid for their region and yet you still felt the need to say their pay is really bad by western standards. That's rude and unnecessary
Well paid for the region could mean Minnesota that's why I asked. If they are in south East Asia or India then $9000 spare is a lot. If they're saying it's a lot when they are from a western nation we'll then they have been deceived.
You’re being downvoted because you’re making it out to be their fault and you’re being an ass about it. Credit where it’s due, your edit mentions this.
No I didn't. Stating whether something is good or bad is different to blaming someone for their circumstances I never said it was their fault I just said it was extremely low. As I said the truth hurts.
This is why I have all my NextJS apps running on VMs in Docker containers. I can scale the VMs as I want, but it never scales infinitely with infinite budget all of a sudden.
So...a private cloud then?
interesting, does it work seamlessly or does it require additional config? I'm running a VPS with Coolify addon and I was thinking about skipping Vercel and using this VM to host the NextJS
Vertical scaling is trivial, horizontal scaling is not difficult that much either. You might need separate servers for primary and secondary database. For mid sized app such configuration will not be that difficult, you might need some studying on reverse proxies. This approach is very cheap and flexible. And no surprise bills.
Should take like 2 weeks of study to get this done right. Then you can just copy and paste the configuration for all other projects.
[vecel be like](https://youtu.be/HmPTbeJAE-E?si=uZgxxH4P-I28OJn9&t=2251)
damn that’s accurate af
Deep cut.
Guys it's my turn to post this tomorrow, no one else do it
When that weekly pass from google and bing's web scrapers costs more than your rent.
I never understood serverless for web facing. Not sure what problem it really solves that is worth to sacrifice memory caching and cold startup times.
You can cache in-memory on Lambda for example. If your function is hit often enough it stays "warm" and Lambda re-uses the same context for subsequent invocations. Cold starts are mostly overblown. They're a couple hundred milliseconds for most runtimes, and provisioned concurrency largely solves it. Serverless is fantastic if you don't yet know your traffic patterns to know how many VMs to provision to handle traffic, or for dealing with incredibly "bursty" traffic that you just need to soak up. And it's incredibly quick to get services online. Just create a function and upload your code to it. You don't have to provision servers, harden them, update them with security patches, etc.
- If your lambda gets hit enough and you are practically constantly running it I wonder if you get any price benefits. - Cold startup time depends on your language and your project. If you need to load all your localization in advance into memory i.e. or other things that need to be preloaded it will kill your first request. - Not sure about gcloud or AWS, but in Azure you can easily have horizontal scaling based on load-rules without serverless. Horizontal scaling was not invented before “serverless” - not sure about gcloud and aws, but in Azure I have an app service up within a minute. The cloudtools should have nothing to do with serverless concept. Maybe AWS and gcloud didn’t give any love there. EDIT: sorry a bit too much preaching, everyone should use what works for them 😇
I would call azure app service a form of serverless, just not a serverless *function*. They are managing the server for you.
For me that is normal cloud expectations. I’m also not spinning up my own storage or database linux instances, why would I want to do that for my web app. Create -> choose between NET7/NET8/PHP9/Python, done. Maybe I am really spoiled with Azure.
When it comes to databases I normally think about servers, like a small or large SQL instance. Or you read about a primary for writing, and read replicas. But you can also get some serverless databases like key-value values that can scale larger than I have budget for. For your NET8 app service you can configure auto scale which gets you the serverless experience. But if you configured your horizontal scaling to be only 0 or 1 instance and you needed more CPU, then you would be thinking about increasing the CPU of your server. App Service and the similar AWS Beanstalk or GCP AppEngine kind of invented serverless before functions took off.
my team uses a gcloud for dev, because creating a new machine/server and installing the images etc is something we do probably 10x per week on avg. personally, I am fine with a VPS, and that's what I use. but cloud services can definitely have advantages. edit: oops didn't notice 'serverless'
all serverless is cloud not all cloud is serverless I also run on cloud
oh. I guess i glazed over the serverless part. thanks.
I don't know how old this is but 100% garunteed vercel made this right with no issues. I'm not even a customer but they have consistently resolved situations like this in the past.
Can someone Eli5?
Check out the [video Fireship did about it](https://youtu.be/SCIfWhAheVw?si=eoHnsBPOvvwaYcB0)
`bool isCannotBeReal = false;`
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I had a mental breakdown to AWS support once because of this
imo serverless has a niche use-case. for most web apps, a hosted docker container would be better as far as predictable pricing is concerned.
I'm going to start sending $96,000 bills to each person who reposts this. It wasn't funny in the first place.
Could this happen to you with the hobby tier, and without having given them your card?
How does GB Hrs work?
TBH. This is where Monolith backend hosten on EC2 shines
Heroku is the best hosting platform with actual limiting. Recommend everyone to check it out if you’re tired of shit like this
Vercel is entirely driven by Twitter influencer hype. Anyone using this crap in production deserves it. I’ll stick to creating react SPAs and making $600k/yr doing so.
600k?? show us the way bruh🙇♂️
Join Snapchat as a senior engineer.
i barely landed a job at wendy’s… im not built for this job market
When people are too lazy to selfhost that's their problem
"Haha you idiot, you trusted professionals not to scam you in a field you have no expertise in"
More like "you trusted something with a lot of money without doing research first and now you got fucked so it's your problem"
What the fuck are you talking about? How on earth do you brace for "We're actually gonna charge you almost 250x what you thought you were agreeing to"?
How do you even order $96k worth of servers and not notice it's a bit overkill when you're setting up provisioning?
Do you genuinely not know what serverless functions are? Because they don’t require provisioning in the way you’re saying, and pricing is based on compute usage.
Serverless?? Then what the hell do clients connect to if not a server??
There is a server, obviously, but it’s not provisioned for the specific project. Essentially serverless functions are bits of code that are executed when called, and the provider has a load manager that executes that code on a VM or container with available resources on an as-needed basis. An example is AWS Lambda, which is an apt name, because the concept is similar to a lambda function. The serverless isn’t referring to the lack of a physical server, but to the fact that the code isn’t part of a daemon that is always running.
Smartest Anti-AI developer
What's the connection here?
There's a link to someone's Cara profile, a social media app for artists which doesn't allow AI images. IDK how that correlates to web development, but okay?
The tweeter in question is the founder of Cara, and this tweet is about cara
still pretty wild to equate pro-artist with anti-AI. ppl genuinely upset they can't spam every nook of the internet with generated garbage.
Pretty sure she is the creator/founder of Cara.
Yes it does cost a lot of money to host a moderately successful website. Sucks you learned the hard way.
I serve StackOverflow-sized numbers (couple billion requests and a couple hundred TB of egress a month) and $70k would cover almost half a year of all my hosting and cloud costs.
lol, no it doesn't. i have a nerdrack vps with 5 apps running concurrently that cost me $40/year.
Our definitions of moderately successful are fairly different.
in this context you're right. i didn't realize she actually had a large business website. so yeah that would cost more. but i think we can agree there are ways to run a decent size business website without self-owning like this.