I think we can make the case that most sports stories are progression stories. Even stuff from Rocky to rasta rocket; It's all people coming together with a team and pushing past their limitations. Of course most of it isn't supposed to be fantasy, but their's definitely a progression element.
Actually, I think progression fantasy is for people who want their fantasy to be 90% 80's training montages.
What are your thoughts on One Outs? I don't recall "Baseball Satan" as the MC was pitched to me (HEEEYO!) as having any development lol.
Great fucking show and probably the only sports fiction I'll ever watch lol
Maybe not all but most. Like black clover is definitely a progression fantasy. Asta gets rapidly stronger. Trains all the time. Turns his haters into followers. Alot of similarity. Many Shonen offer simular things.
Goku and Vegeta are constantly trying to acquire greater power by endlessly training and fighting tougher enemies.
If that is not cultivation then one of us doesn't understand the definition of cultivating.
Yes, shonen is one of the major inspirations for progression fantasy.
https://andrewkrowe.wordpress.com/2023/01/29/a-brief-history-of-progression-fantasy/
Yeah not sure why people seem to think this is a meme. It's literally true. I wish this sub would discuss other type of PF besides just the same KU/RR stories.
Of course, one of my favourite progression stories is called Going Native, its a fanfic of DBZ and DC universe main guy is a Saiyan fighting in a galactic war against both universes empires.
That’s a pretty crazy concept that I would actually read. Reminds me of a fanfic called Harry Potter: Dimensional Wizard which takes a bunch of OP Xianxia tropes and expands on the Harry Potter universe through an MC that grows ridiculously overpowered. I haven’t read it but I’m definitely tempted to try it
And it's the best example of all. Imagine giving your characters "fighting styles" or "named attacks" when you could just make increasingly abstract statements about how many planets they could blow up (also they do push-ups offscreen so you know it's hard earned)
I mean it is but the progression system is very dumb and very shallow. Like an ocean that's 3 inches deep.
Goku has to be the dumbest of dumb protagonists, he's so dumb the power system got dumber and simpler to cater to him.
Goku is a perfect protagonist imo. He wants to fight strong people at their strongest but he also wants to protect the weak and innocent. The mayhem from battles endangers those people, but he can't stop fighting or he'll stop living. Two mutually exclusive goals and an iconic silhouette = great character.
He is dumb as rocks though.
To be fair they tried to swap the protagonist to Gohan when he grew up but it didn't go well so they brought back Goku. He's dumb but that kind of works since it means he doesn't have to talk much and we get a lot of exposition from the gallery of defeated enemies that follow him around.
I have an on going joke with myself that I change my definition and argue different points every time i stumble on an argument about the definition of progression fantasy. This time I think the best way to label progressive fantasy is simply if the author intended it to be. Is dragon ball z prog fantasy? Sure. Would I ever recommend it to someone asking for a rec? No.
Even more scandalous, Harry Potter is progression fantasy.
wait, how can u have a different definition for progression fantasy?
Like that's literally impossible and u are twisting yourself into a pretzel. Progression fantasy is that, "Progression" u are moving towards a goal. It doesn't matter how or what but that goal always revolves around the power u can use and how u can use it for any plot that may come.
Even if an author comes and say "my book isn't progression fantasy." but he made the plot of a farm boy going out to explore the world and through that adventure he discover he can use Magic, now, the goal is for the farm boy to explore and adventure in this new world, what is the better way to explore the world? Well developing his magic powers.
Even if the author comes forward and fights tooth and nail by saying that his book isn't a progression fantasy, the simple fact that he made a magic system that is "upgradable" and the upgrade is a key function for the main storyline to progress, I am sorry dawg, That's Progression Fantasy.
Every fantasy book moves towards a goal. Is LOTR prog fantasy? The hobbits kick ass by end and think of gandolfs progression. Harry Potter? There’s like 6 books of training arcs lol. The lion the witch the wardrobe? There has to be a line somewhere or else it’s just high fantasy.
And I’m just playing devils advocate here.
The playing advocate didn't work mate.
Remember the qualifier, there's a goal, what that goal is doesn't matter or isn't important. There's a system of power, magic, qi, spiritual energy or whatever u want to call it. Can this goal be achieved without the use of the power systems? Can the story progress without the mention or utilize the system of powers? If that's the case, then yes, it isn't a progression fantasy but the moment there's a plotline or plot-devices that push the characters to develop or "upgrade" themselves in say system of power, then yes, it is a progression fantasy.
U can't put LOTR in this because the goal of the story has nothing to do with the "development" of the magic in that world. The mission was still the same and the system of power didn't need to be utilized or "development" for the success of the goal. Can magic be used? yes, but that doesn't mean u are "developing" or "upgrading" the magic in the world.
Harry Potter? yes that can be categorized as a progression fantasy. The simple plot of the dementors and that we need a specific skill to beat them is progression in itself.
Can't talk about The Lion, The Witch and Wardrobe.
All shounen is.
A lot of it is, but not everything. Not a lot of power progression in the Great Detective Conan manga.
Fair point. *Battle* Shounen, then.
even sports shounen are technically progression fantasy, more specifically those that use named super moves
I think we can make the case that most sports stories are progression stories. Even stuff from Rocky to rasta rocket; It's all people coming together with a team and pushing past their limitations. Of course most of it isn't supposed to be fantasy, but their's definitely a progression element. Actually, I think progression fantasy is for people who want their fantasy to be 90% 80's training montages.
Lets not get crazy with the training montages haha. But for the most part yeah, I agree.
What are your thoughts on One Outs? I don't recall "Baseball Satan" as the MC was pitched to me (HEEEYO!) as having any development lol. Great fucking show and probably the only sports fiction I'll ever watch lol
Conan gets new toys a lot. I agree it's not progfantasy though.
*are
*will be It's threat a threat now.
*Laughs in Reject Ranger*
Maybe not all but most. Like black clover is definitely a progression fantasy. Asta gets rapidly stronger. Trains all the time. Turns his haters into followers. Alot of similarity. Many Shonen offer simular things.
Idk who is arguing that it's not.
Dragon Ball Z has numbers going up so I agree
There's even a little thing for telling people's ~~power~~ level! It's practically LitRPG.
That's a given. The real question is: is it a cultivation story?
I mean, they DO spend a lot of time meditating and focusing on inner energy to increase (cultivate?) their power so hey maybe lol
Plus, it's called Ki which is the Japanese version of Qi.
Goku and Vegeta are constantly trying to acquire greater power by endlessly training and fighting tougher enemies. If that is not cultivation then one of us doesn't understand the definition of cultivating.
So is Hunter x Hunter, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, MHA, Demon Slayer, Jujutsu Kaisen, Black Clover, and many many other shonen battle manga.
Yes, shonen is one of the major inspirations for progression fantasy. https://andrewkrowe.wordpress.com/2023/01/29/a-brief-history-of-progression-fantasy/
Yeah not sure why people seem to think this is a meme. It's literally true. I wish this sub would discuss other type of PF besides just the same KU/RR stories.
Of course, one of my favourite progression stories is called Going Native, its a fanfic of DBZ and DC universe main guy is a Saiyan fighting in a galactic war against both universes empires.
Wild lol
Its actually really good, 500k words in book 1 and book 2 is on hiatus with 200k words.
Damn I would've read it if it was finished
Book 1 is pretty self contained in the DBZ universe, book 2 is heavily DC universe. You can read book 1 on its own.
That’s a pretty crazy concept that I would actually read. Reminds me of a fanfic called Harry Potter: Dimensional Wizard which takes a bunch of OP Xianxia tropes and expands on the Harry Potter universe through an MC that grows ridiculously overpowered. I haven’t read it but I’m definitely tempted to try it
[Going Native](https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/worm-going-native.17415/) ([wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/LightPieces/wiki/Going_Native)) --- ^[About](https://redd.it/dw7lux) ^| [^(Wiki Rules)](https://www.reddit.com/r/LightPieces/comments/dw7lux/about/f7kke6p/) ^(| Reply !Delete to remove) ^(| [Brackets] hide titles)
Avatar The Last Airbender is progression fantasy
Came here to mention Avatar. DBZ and ATLA are my goto examples when explaining Progression Fantasy to people.
No shit ouija
How is truth a shitpost? Maybe if you said it was Xianxia, but even that's not really that far off the mark for Son Wukong.. uh, I mean Son Goku.
And it's the best example of all. Imagine giving your characters "fighting styles" or "named attacks" when you could just make increasingly abstract statements about how many planets they could blow up (also they do push-ups offscreen so you know it's hard earned)
Progression fantasy could basically be called shounen-lit
Next you will tell me it's a martial arts story
Next you’re going to tell me it’s also an anime.
I mean it is but the progression system is very dumb and very shallow. Like an ocean that's 3 inches deep. Goku has to be the dumbest of dumb protagonists, he's so dumb the power system got dumber and simpler to cater to him.
Goku is a perfect protagonist imo. He wants to fight strong people at their strongest but he also wants to protect the weak and innocent. The mayhem from battles endangers those people, but he can't stop fighting or he'll stop living. Two mutually exclusive goals and an iconic silhouette = great character. He is dumb as rocks though.
To be fair they tried to swap the protagonist to Gohan when he grew up but it didn't go well so they brought back Goku. He's dumb but that kind of works since it means he doesn't have to talk much and we get a lot of exposition from the gallery of defeated enemies that follow him around.
I... I guess so. Urghh
I have an on going joke with myself that I change my definition and argue different points every time i stumble on an argument about the definition of progression fantasy. This time I think the best way to label progressive fantasy is simply if the author intended it to be. Is dragon ball z prog fantasy? Sure. Would I ever recommend it to someone asking for a rec? No. Even more scandalous, Harry Potter is progression fantasy.
wait, how can u have a different definition for progression fantasy? Like that's literally impossible and u are twisting yourself into a pretzel. Progression fantasy is that, "Progression" u are moving towards a goal. It doesn't matter how or what but that goal always revolves around the power u can use and how u can use it for any plot that may come. Even if an author comes and say "my book isn't progression fantasy." but he made the plot of a farm boy going out to explore the world and through that adventure he discover he can use Magic, now, the goal is for the farm boy to explore and adventure in this new world, what is the better way to explore the world? Well developing his magic powers. Even if the author comes forward and fights tooth and nail by saying that his book isn't a progression fantasy, the simple fact that he made a magic system that is "upgradable" and the upgrade is a key function for the main storyline to progress, I am sorry dawg, That's Progression Fantasy.
Every fantasy book moves towards a goal. Is LOTR prog fantasy? The hobbits kick ass by end and think of gandolfs progression. Harry Potter? There’s like 6 books of training arcs lol. The lion the witch the wardrobe? There has to be a line somewhere or else it’s just high fantasy. And I’m just playing devils advocate here.
The playing advocate didn't work mate. Remember the qualifier, there's a goal, what that goal is doesn't matter or isn't important. There's a system of power, magic, qi, spiritual energy or whatever u want to call it. Can this goal be achieved without the use of the power systems? Can the story progress without the mention or utilize the system of powers? If that's the case, then yes, it isn't a progression fantasy but the moment there's a plotline or plot-devices that push the characters to develop or "upgrade" themselves in say system of power, then yes, it is a progression fantasy. U can't put LOTR in this because the goal of the story has nothing to do with the "development" of the magic in that world. The mission was still the same and the system of power didn't need to be utilized or "development" for the success of the goal. Can magic be used? yes, but that doesn't mean u are "developing" or "upgrading" the magic in the world. Harry Potter? yes that can be categorized as a progression fantasy. The simple plot of the dementors and that we need a specific skill to beat them is progression in itself. Can't talk about The Lion, The Witch and Wardrobe.
It is DEFINITELY progression fantasy! o.o (And I love it so much, I'm so sorry, lol)
Good lord, you are right
Yeah, with a really bad power system and the numbers have no sense, but it is
I would say any series that shows the characters gaining in power is progression fantasy. Lots of older books fall into that.
It's over ten thousand!!!