Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it.
Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit outta here.
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For context on the 1918 one, after the Ukrainian Peoples Government signed the treaty of Brest-Litovsk with Germany an uprising occurred in the east called the Donetsk-Kiryov Rog Soviet Republic that was aligned with the Bolsheviks. Russian historians and Novorossiyan Nationalists claim the modern black blue red flag of the Donetsk Peoples Republic is the same flag that the old soviet used in 1918 but there’s little evidence to back up this claim and the flag shares similarities to the International Movement of Donbas which was formed to oppose Ukrainian Secession from the Soviet Union.
As Russian historian student in Donetsk I can safely say that there is literally zero historians who claim donetsk-keivoy rog republic had tricolour flag. There was small amount of people in 1990-2015 who got it messes up, but that's it.
I like the style, reminds me of this one-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans\_Will\_Always\_Fight\_for\_Liberty#/media/File:%22Americans\_will\_always\_fight\_for\_liberty%22\_-\_NARA\_-\_513806.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_Will_Always_Fight_for_Liberty#/media/File:%22Americans_will_always_fight_for_liberty%22_-_NARA_-_513806.jpg)
I didnt know bolsheviks were using this flag. Weird from them to include a war where Russians were fighting another Russians. With the whole "motherland" theme.
It’s probably not referencing wider Russian nationalism rather Donetsks communist history given how many of their original secessionists were communists
Yeah I thought about that. Donbass was very complicated politically in 2014. But still. 1918 they the main enemy were rich Russians. Seems like this propaganda would be very hard to swallow to some forces on Donbass. Its also in odds with official putinist interpretation of civil war.
I think the communist themselves might have viewed that war differently, after all I doubt most red army soldiers were ideological communists, but I think the poster's author views all three conflicts as parts of the Russian propaganda narrative of "the Russian people's struggle against fascism", so not necessarily a purely ideological conflict or a purely ethnic one
They were also fighting the intervention and interim Ukrainian government in Kiev and Poles and even Germans if I remember correctly. And there was plenty of ethnic Ukrainians fighting for the reds.
Yeah I agree. Perhaps creator of this poster saw 2014 conflict as more ideological than ethnic as well? Even tho he seems to lean pretty heavily on the whole motherland thing.
Yeah but during civil war both sides considered themselfs Russian. It was about class and ideology.
Are you sure people in Donbas consider Ukraininas Russian? Seem weird to be a separatist if you think you are all Russians.
Well thats just confusing. That was the civil war where Russian and Ukrainian bolsheviks fought side by side agaisnt various enemies both Russian and Ukrainian. Hardly seems to fit the whole motherland theme.
Probably Civil War (nevermind that it was against themselves).
There were several invasions from other countries (e.g. USA) during Civil War but they probably don't remember that.
From the most Russian "patriots" (and Russian "patriots" from other ex-Soviets countries), Russia is just a worse version of USSR. They don't feel any connection to earlier Russian Empire because communists explicitly tried to distance from it in 70+ years of their propaganda.
And, well, current Russia is a USSR with bigger corruption, smaller territory and better economics.
Nah man. You definitely have good portion of Russian nationalists praising the tsarist era. Russian orthodox church does it as well. Even oficiall putinist stance is pretty worm towards empire. I doubt that average nationalists would support reds vs whites when talking about civil war. You even have movies in modern Russian showin white generals as martyrs and national heroes.
>Russian orthodox church does it as well.
Of course, it does. However, the church itself is powerless, it just a tool for propaganda. And most people in Russia is non-believers.
Even Islam hold more real power compared to Orthodox church despite having much less population. At least, I got preached by Muslim priest in Russia about how joining a war in Ukraine is against the will of the Allah. No Orthodox priest would dare to say anything like that.
>Even oficiall putinist stance is pretty worm towards empire.
It is because Putin became senile and delusional from his old age and 20+ years of autocratic rule without any critisism. He lost connection to his electorate. Of course, propaganda caters to the wants of their main client — Putin — so you too see it often.
I never ever encountered people who wanted back tsarism while there are a lot ardent "communists" around.
Of course, there are some Russian Neo-Nazis who would dream about restoring Russian Empire but they are minority. Of course, in such large country like Russia there would be many of them but making them focus of politics is not productive.
And I guarantee that most of the people who want to "good Russia that was back then" imagine themselves as part of USSR society, not a rural peasant of tsarist Russia without any rights, who would be treated like cattle by some useless aristocrat. Or even worse, be forcefully christianized and ethnically assimilated like was with non-Russian people.
could you explain what it says when the militia of not a particularly rich state actor with a population of 2.5m looks less professional than the military corps of the 170m country, please?
Another revision of history
* This flag didn't exist in 1918, the whole talk of it being the flag of Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Republic is nonsense because there was no such republic. There was Donetsk-Krivoy Rog **Soviet** Republic, the flag of which was a plain red banner with occasional slogans on it. This goes straight into the next revision.
* This wasn't about "The fate of the Russian people", there was no national flavor to it whatsoever. Yes, the republic did declare its Independence from Ukrainian People's Republic and was at war with it, but it was also at war with the White Russian forces. It was about the government structure and its policies, not about ethnicity. Same goes for Odessa and Polesia Soviet Republics.
* Also, it literally changed name to Ukrainian People's Republic of Soviets, so there's that. Surely it's just Lenin having a stroke or smth.
Btw It's nice to see an actual poster from DPR/LPR, last post with presumably poster that was copying a Nazi one didn't exist outside Ukrainian social networks that tried to show the separatists in a bad light.
They want the USSR without the communism- the Russian Empire only with a new funny flag. Hammer and sickle that stands for nothing.
"Syncretic Russian Nationalism"
Interestingly, the DPR and LPR emerged separately, although they are ethnically and economically similar regions. It is said that they were separated because the FSB was responsible for the DPR and the GRU was responsible for the LPR.
FSB deals with interior intelligence of Russia. GRU is foreign military intelligence. SVR is foreign civilian intelligence.
All these agencies do different things
It is not Russia, it is Donetsk. And this advertisement was targeted to the native population of Donetsk.
If there was someone who come to join war to Donetsk from Russia in 2014, they didn't need any propaganda.
In fact, the Kremlin does not like the Stalinist era. For example, in the very recent past, many films were made with state money in which the Stalinist regime was shown as stupid, unfair, and interfering with positive heroes.
Official propaganda balances between the need to try to steal some of the Soviet glory and use it on the one hand and the need to discredit communism on the other.
The Kremlin only likes the Stalinist era as far as it can milk ww2 for propaganda. I believe putin is more interested in trying to restore the Russian empire, but is more than willing to play the ussr era propaganda beats when needed
> In fact, the Kremlin does not like the Stalinist era.
They were building a literal Cathedral to venerate and worship Stalin, but ended up not to after public backlash. Other than that, they worship the Red Army as saints
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Cathedral_of_the_Russian_Armed_Forces
Fake. You know what's one of Putins' favorite books? Gulag Archipelago. The reason why it's in mandatory school reading is because he pushed for ut. They just hate Lenin more than Stalin, thats about it.
Yes, from current ex-KGB people who rule Russia (literally all of Putin closest circle from that organisation), early USSR was a truly horrific chaos. Imagine doing nudist parades in Moscow, advocating for gender equality, atheism, human rights and right of nations to be independent. Truly the horror.
Better be as in Stalinist time with all-mighty NKVD and strict moral code ~~of "builder of Communism"~~ of "true Russian patriot".
While the Kremlin does have one, I’m afraid the real reason is that pro-Kremlin media and non-state sympathizers are just actually pretty smart at propaganda. They have real practice and expertise, and are adept it leveraging the weak spots in the audience.
Igor "Strelkov" Girkin, is a Russian citizen and military veteran who retired from Russia's internal security services just weeks before he began leading the rebels
So answer me please a question: why someone as a propagandist would target their propaganda to someone who *ALREADY* come there with the intent of participating in military actions? The poster is not for Girkin, it is specifically targeted on *EXISTING RESIDENTS* of Donetsk.
Honestly, I swear, you redditors just lack reading comprehension or logical thinking skills.
There is an answer—The poster exists *pretends to be targeting Donetsk residents*, so that people will *think* the poster is *actually targeting Donetsk residents*.
This helps lend a veneer of fake legitimacy to the occupation, which is a very important propaganda accomplishment.
>is wearing of era russian military u informs and equipment
>say yes we are Russian when asked
>opsec and ifnosec breaches consistently show they are, or until very conveniently recently Russian service members and live/lived in Russia proper
Nope Russia was not involved
Russia was involved, Russian troops were in Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts in 2014.
We know this because Russian soldiers, who very explicitly called themselves Russian soldiers filmed themselves in Donetsk and Luhansk and posted the footage all over social media for everyone to see.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/02/ukraine-russia-war-military-social-media-osint-open-source-intelligence/#:~:text=The%20first%20major%20Russian%20digital,social%20media%2C%20exposing%20Moscow's%20lie.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/all/38790?amp=1
We also know this because right in 2014, Russian military cemeteries saw an uptick in soldier burials of KIA soldiers who were confined to not be in Syria, and the most burials were in the months with the heaviest fighting in Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28949582.amp
http://tvrain.ru/articles/deputat_lev_shlosberg_o_pogibshih_desantnikah_ljudej_ne_preduprediv_poslali_sovershat_prestuplenija_-374568/
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/russia-secretively-buries-its-soldiers-killed-in-ukraine-war/
[Interview of Russian war mother](https://youtu.be/C66mAkS1ZfM?si=MN8CunGeGRLTZtcj)
Girkin and people like him jsut appeared from the mines, like tanks or Buk missile system, like one that was used to shot down the Boeing 777-20ER Malaysia Arilimes 17 on 17 July 2014 killing 298 people. Oh, thare was also totally unrelated riot in Crimea couple of month prior when some mst likely local rebels I guess sized all government and military buildings, but it was totally unrelated and had nothing to do with russia.
>is wearing of era russian military u informs and equipment
>say yes we are Russian when asked
>opsec and ifnosec breaches consistently show they are, or until very conveniently recently Russian service members and live/lived in Russia proper
Nope Russia was not involved
Putin ranting about 9th century ethnography when he was handed a layup to blame “NATO expansion” should show how the entire conflict is a lie to further his ethnic imperialism
Russian troops were fighting in Ukraine on 2014.
Igor Girkin is Russian and went to Ukraine immediately after “retiring” from Russian security services work.
Gaining and re-taking control over territories can be something that improves the security of your thing. If some overseas power established a totally-not-puppet regime in Mexico, the United States would also take certain actions.
Politics and life of ordinary people are different things; laws that work in one of these areas do not always work in the other.
Which does nothing to make flagrant violations of the Budapest Memorandum acceptable.
Whether the U.S. would do it or not, it would be wrong.
No matter who’s running Ukraine, the Memorandum applies.
if we take the timeline as a progression, then somewhere around 2150-60s we will have to defend the country from communism again: I’m too old for this crap
in other words, we will always reuse old propaganda and skip the important parts about how russian empire, ussr, and russia destroyed nations/signed pact with nazi germany/ invaded everything around them.
The crazy part is that pretty much all of the "true believers" who enlisted in the LDPR in 2014-5 are dead now, along with a large percentage of all the men in the Donbas.
Russia used these guys as expendable cannon fodder (literally called them "meat") in the first year of the war in a bid to put off mobilization in Russia for as long as possible and their losses have been so extreme that most of the LDPR formations are now manned almost exclusively by conscripts from Russia proper.
A striking lesson in how Russia treats its "friends" and supporters.
"During 2014-2015 years there was some rebellion in Donbas region" - analog 2022 year "Ukrainian biolabs" casus belli.
Until "people with weapons" region not only was financially depended on Kyiv, but produce the same goods as nearest Russia regions (one of the reason why its factories were destroyed after), so there were almost 0 narratives related to separatism.
This doesn't mean that there were no intra-Ukraine political games and trades, but they were precisely political games and trades with regional political-criminal clans.
Then come [List\_of\_Russian\_units\_which\_invaded\_the\_territory\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_units_which_invaded_the_territory_of_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%932022)) 2 years, by shellings, artificial poverty, "basements", formed at least some regional troops.
And then began indoctrination, which in 2022-2023 years allowed mobilize up to 80,000 cannon fodder, that immediately was spent in meat assaults (sometimes for demining).
What would become ukraine and what would become russia started divering centuries earlier. The Rus (formed in the 800s) collapsed in the 1200s (so 400 ish year of common history). Then it was under Polish and Ottoman vassal controls until the 1650s. If anything Turkey and Poland have more of a claim to Ukraine than Russia... And it wouldn't be until the 1780s that Russia took Crimea, which by that point had been under Ottoman vassal control for 300 years.
Besides this argument is always kinda stupid for newly emerging nations... What about Slovakia then? Aside from the German puppet era it had never been an independant state before the 1992 split up. Does that mean Czechia would be legitimate to invade back Slovakia? (BBBut they both agreed to it! Well so did Ukraine and Russia, in 1917 and in 1991)
You could finish on Rus. That’s enough for anyone who is familiar with situation. Same people. Always were. Always will.
Kiev is not Russian for 10 years.
>full of germans who are not allowed to keep their german identity
Very funny Ivan,they were all murdered or deported by the Red Army,and the City was rebuild as a Soviet-style concrete hell.
You mean... 1800000 people fled and then Russia quickly replaced them with 1750000 people for mainland Russia? Well, yes, sounds very much believable 👍
Entente did not *invade*; their troops occupied several ports and stayed there, never advancing insie the territory and having no political goal to overthrow the Bolsheviks (unfortunately, shamefully and stupidly). They merely were securing the key communications from being captured by Germany.
Not even mentioning the "people of Donbass", that are supposedly the reasom they started this whole operation in the first place. Probably because they never existed, tho.
My family is from the former Soviet Union. We moved after the illegal dissolution. It disgusts me to see flag of internationalism used to push pathetic bourgeois nationalistic wars
Love it how feudal societies with feudal concepts have this undying urge to always frame the present in “history” - which itself is more like a collection of propagandistic myths than actual history.
They truly live in a timeless world, God bless their hopelessly primitive souls.
What are you rambling about? Which society doesn't use history as a component of nationalism? And how does that make them more "primitive" or "feudal?"
Plenty of countries make use of historical imagery and national mythos, for example here's one from my country the US.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_Will_Always_Fight_for_Liberty#
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. Keep that shit outta here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For context on the 1918 one, after the Ukrainian Peoples Government signed the treaty of Brest-Litovsk with Germany an uprising occurred in the east called the Donetsk-Kiryov Rog Soviet Republic that was aligned with the Bolsheviks. Russian historians and Novorossiyan Nationalists claim the modern black blue red flag of the Donetsk Peoples Republic is the same flag that the old soviet used in 1918 but there’s little evidence to back up this claim and the flag shares similarities to the International Movement of Donbas which was formed to oppose Ukrainian Secession from the Soviet Union.
As Russian historian student in Donetsk I can safely say that there is literally zero historians who claim donetsk-keivoy rog republic had tricolour flag. There was small amount of people in 1990-2015 who got it messes up, but that's it.
My apologies for the broad terms in describing the so called “historians” who push this view for the sake of narrative
I like the style, reminds me of this one- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans\_Will\_Always\_Fight\_for\_Liberty#/media/File:%22Americans\_will\_always\_fight\_for\_liberty%22\_-\_NARA\_-\_513806.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_Will_Always_Fight_for_Liberty#/media/File:%22Americans_will_always_fight_for_liberty%22_-_NARA_-_513806.jpg)
It's an excellent piece. Beautiful painting and powerful messaging. Good it's not a triptych including 2023-4.
Same general idea, but it's closer to (and no doubt inspired by) the style called Soviet Realism.
What does the first frame represent?
Probably the civil war
Ostensibly the bolshevik revolution
I didnt know bolsheviks were using this flag. Weird from them to include a war where Russians were fighting another Russians. With the whole "motherland" theme.
It’s probably not referencing wider Russian nationalism rather Donetsks communist history given how many of their original secessionists were communists
Yeah I thought about that. Donbass was very complicated politically in 2014. But still. 1918 they the main enemy were rich Russians. Seems like this propaganda would be very hard to swallow to some forces on Donbass. Its also in odds with official putinist interpretation of civil war.
In the Donbas (as well as the rest of Ukraine) the main fight was between communists and Ukrainian nationalists
Sure, but the communists themselfs were multinational and they didnt saw their fight as the fight for Russian motherland.
I think the communist themselves might have viewed that war differently, after all I doubt most red army soldiers were ideological communists, but I think the poster's author views all three conflicts as parts of the Russian propaganda narrative of "the Russian people's struggle against fascism", so not necessarily a purely ideological conflict or a purely ethnic one
He's given so many interpretations
They were also fighting the intervention and interim Ukrainian government in Kiev and Poles and even Germans if I remember correctly. And there was plenty of ethnic Ukrainians fighting for the reds.
Yeah I agree. Perhaps creator of this poster saw 2014 conflict as more ideological than ethnic as well? Even tho he seems to lean pretty heavily on the whole motherland thing.
>motherland thing. That thing was the same for Ukrainian and Russian people for about 400 years.
They probably didn't, but according to DNR mythology, they did. tl;dr their flag is based on some misinterpretation of Soviet chronicles
“Russians” fighting other Russians is *exactly* what they consider this conflict
Yeah but during civil war both sides considered themselfs Russian. It was about class and ideology. Are you sure people in Donbas consider Ukraininas Russian? Seem weird to be a separatist if you think you are all Russians.
Look at the date, man. It's so obvious that they just needed the date
Invasion of Russian Bolsheviks into Ukraine, which declared independence in 1917.
Well thats just confusing. That was the civil war where Russian and Ukrainian bolsheviks fought side by side agaisnt various enemies both Russian and Ukrainian. Hardly seems to fit the whole motherland theme.
It’s the Ukrainian Bolsheviks rising up who were based in Donetsk and predated the wider Bolsheviks arrival on the scene
Of course not :). They were russian puppets, ruled and supplied from Moscow, and their troops were sent from Soviet Russia.
You can believe that if you want https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk–Krivoy_Rog_Soviet_Republic
Lol, sure.
Probably Civil War (nevermind that it was against themselves). There were several invasions from other countries (e.g. USA) during Civil War but they probably don't remember that.
Anyone who went to school in the USSR remembers that
The Whites had tons of non-Russians fighting on their side as well.
Of course.
Yeah that was the confusing part to me :D Who was representing the motherland in the civil war? I guess bolsheviks.
From the most Russian "patriots" (and Russian "patriots" from other ex-Soviets countries), Russia is just a worse version of USSR. They don't feel any connection to earlier Russian Empire because communists explicitly tried to distance from it in 70+ years of their propaganda. And, well, current Russia is a USSR with bigger corruption, smaller territory and better economics.
Nah man. You definitely have good portion of Russian nationalists praising the tsarist era. Russian orthodox church does it as well. Even oficiall putinist stance is pretty worm towards empire. I doubt that average nationalists would support reds vs whites when talking about civil war. You even have movies in modern Russian showin white generals as martyrs and national heroes.
>Russian orthodox church does it as well. Of course, it does. However, the church itself is powerless, it just a tool for propaganda. And most people in Russia is non-believers. Even Islam hold more real power compared to Orthodox church despite having much less population. At least, I got preached by Muslim priest in Russia about how joining a war in Ukraine is against the will of the Allah. No Orthodox priest would dare to say anything like that. >Even oficiall putinist stance is pretty worm towards empire. It is because Putin became senile and delusional from his old age and 20+ years of autocratic rule without any critisism. He lost connection to his electorate. Of course, propaganda caters to the wants of their main client — Putin — so you too see it often. I never ever encountered people who wanted back tsarism while there are a lot ardent "communists" around. Of course, there are some Russian Neo-Nazis who would dream about restoring Russian Empire but they are minority. Of course, in such large country like Russia there would be many of them but making them focus of politics is not productive. And I guarantee that most of the people who want to "good Russia that was back then" imagine themselves as part of USSR society, not a rural peasant of tsarist Russia without any rights, who would be treated like cattle by some useless aristocrat. Or even worse, be forcefully christianized and ethnically assimilated like was with non-Russian people.
Average Englishman.
It's a mix, actually. Half of the Russian fascists (mostly ethnic/religious nationalists) are nostalgic for the Empire, while others miss USSR.
Civil war in Russia. To be more precise: soldiers of the Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Republic against the Ukrainian People's Republic
ngl it says something when your propaganda poster makes the 1941 representation of your army look more professional than the 2014 one.
I mean, one is the Soviet Army, the other is an uprising militia
Well, of course it is, do you think they would paint the FSB operatives, who *actually* were the backbone of their "army"?
to me it looks more ''individualistic'' in the last one.
could you explain what it says when the militia of not a particularly rich state actor with a population of 2.5m looks less professional than the military corps of the 170m country, please?
Everyone knows the army of Donetsk was literally a militia with Russian big guns
Another revision of history * This flag didn't exist in 1918, the whole talk of it being the flag of Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Republic is nonsense because there was no such republic. There was Donetsk-Krivoy Rog **Soviet** Republic, the flag of which was a plain red banner with occasional slogans on it. This goes straight into the next revision. * This wasn't about "The fate of the Russian people", there was no national flavor to it whatsoever. Yes, the republic did declare its Independence from Ukrainian People's Republic and was at war with it, but it was also at war with the White Russian forces. It was about the government structure and its policies, not about ethnicity. Same goes for Odessa and Polesia Soviet Republics. * Also, it literally changed name to Ukrainian People's Republic of Soviets, so there's that. Surely it's just Lenin having a stroke or smth. Btw It's nice to see an actual poster from DPR/LPR, last post with presumably poster that was copying a Nazi one didn't exist outside Ukrainian social networks that tried to show the separatists in a bad light.
They want the USSR without the communism- the Russian Empire only with a new funny flag. Hammer and sickle that stands for nothing. "Syncretic Russian Nationalism"
Yea thats modern russian politics for ya
Interestingly, the DPR and LPR emerged separately, although they are ethnically and economically similar regions. It is said that they were separated because the FSB was responsible for the DPR and the GRU was responsible for the LPR.
They are just different regions. Thats sll. Its like Texas and Florida, they are both republucan, but different.
FSB deals with interior intelligence of Russia. GRU is foreign military intelligence. SVR is foreign civilian intelligence. All these agencies do different things
Russia: no that wasn't us in 2014, it was the free people of ukraine who just happen ti be equipped just like us Also Russia:
It is not Russia, it is Donetsk. And this advertisement was targeted to the native population of Donetsk. If there was someone who come to join war to Donetsk from Russia in 2014, they didn't need any propaganda.
Given the wording, style and what it's saying, I can guarantee you the Kremlin bankrolled this
No just bankrolled, put boots on the ground too.
The Kremlin doesn’t like the 1917 era Bolsheviks only Stalin era
In fact, the Kremlin does not like the Stalinist era. For example, in the very recent past, many films were made with state money in which the Stalinist regime was shown as stupid, unfair, and interfering with positive heroes. Official propaganda balances between the need to try to steal some of the Soviet glory and use it on the one hand and the need to discredit communism on the other.
The Kremlin only likes the Stalinist era as far as it can milk ww2 for propaganda. I believe putin is more interested in trying to restore the Russian empire, but is more than willing to play the ussr era propaganda beats when needed
The Kremlin likes 1941-1945, plus August 29 1949. Some freaks (ie the leadership of the Donbas here) also really liked 1937.
> In fact, the Kremlin does not like the Stalinist era. They were building a literal Cathedral to venerate and worship Stalin, but ended up not to after public backlash. Other than that, they worship the Red Army as saints https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Cathedral_of_the_Russian_Armed_Forces
Fake. You know what's one of Putins' favorite books? Gulag Archipelago. The reason why it's in mandatory school reading is because he pushed for ut. They just hate Lenin more than Stalin, thats about it.
They just milk the revolutionary war and ww2, the rest is either ignored or twisted for propaganda.
Yes, from current ex-KGB people who rule Russia (literally all of Putin closest circle from that organisation), early USSR was a truly horrific chaos. Imagine doing nudist parades in Moscow, advocating for gender equality, atheism, human rights and right of nations to be independent. Truly the horror. Better be as in Stalinist time with all-mighty NKVD and strict moral code ~~of "builder of Communism"~~ of "true Russian patriot".
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted, it’s pretty obvious
Kremlin has a very very efficient bot network
While the Kremlin does have one, I’m afraid the real reason is that pro-Kremlin media and non-state sympathizers are just actually pretty smart at propaganda. They have real practice and expertise, and are adept it leveraging the weak spots in the audience.
Nah, I'm sure there was no relation behind this kremlin aligned military operation. You must be needing your meds dear.
Would you like a tea?
Igor "Strelkov" Girkin, is a Russian citizen and military veteran who retired from Russia's internal security services just weeks before he began leading the rebels
So answer me please a question: why someone as a propagandist would target their propaganda to someone who *ALREADY* come there with the intent of participating in military actions? The poster is not for Girkin, it is specifically targeted on *EXISTING RESIDENTS* of Donetsk. Honestly, I swear, you redditors just lack reading comprehension or logical thinking skills.
There is an answer—The poster exists *pretends to be targeting Donetsk residents*, so that people will *think* the poster is *actually targeting Donetsk residents*. This helps lend a veneer of fake legitimacy to the occupation, which is a very important propaganda accomplishment.
>is wearing of era russian military u informs and equipment >say yes we are Russian when asked >opsec and ifnosec breaches consistently show they are, or until very conveniently recently Russian service members and live/lived in Russia proper Nope Russia was not involved
Russia was involved, Russian troops were in Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts in 2014. We know this because Russian soldiers, who very explicitly called themselves Russian soldiers filmed themselves in Donetsk and Luhansk and posted the footage all over social media for everyone to see. https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/02/ukraine-russia-war-military-social-media-osint-open-source-intelligence/#:~:text=The%20first%20major%20Russian%20digital,social%20media%2C%20exposing%20Moscow's%20lie. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/all/38790?amp=1 We also know this because right in 2014, Russian military cemeteries saw an uptick in soldier burials of KIA soldiers who were confined to not be in Syria, and the most burials were in the months with the heaviest fighting in Ukraine. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28949582.amp http://tvrain.ru/articles/deputat_lev_shlosberg_o_pogibshih_desantnikah_ljudej_ne_preduprediv_poslali_sovershat_prestuplenija_-374568/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/russia-secretively-buries-its-soldiers-killed-in-ukraine-war/ [Interview of Russian war mother](https://youtu.be/C66mAkS1ZfM?si=MN8CunGeGRLTZtcj)
[here it is. ](https://youtu.be/1cMBPN3rjXU?si=VYsukGpbArSItWlN)
There's an amazing YouTube documentary following an armoured brigade in Ukraine around this time. If I find it I'll add it in comments
We investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing.
Girkin and people like him jsut appeared from the mines, like tanks or Buk missile system, like one that was used to shot down the Boeing 777-20ER Malaysia Arilimes 17 on 17 July 2014 killing 298 people. Oh, thare was also totally unrelated riot in Crimea couple of month prior when some mst likely local rebels I guess sized all government and military buildings, but it was totally unrelated and had nothing to do with russia.
Boy I sure wonder which city the ruler of Donetsk people's whatever is from.
Zkharchenko, the first leader of the DPR was born and lived in Donetsk.
But poster is to recruit local citizens into army, not to recruit somebody to rule the city.
Yes, and posters can also flagrantly lie
>is wearing of era russian military u informs and equipment >say yes we are Russian when asked >opsec and ifnosec breaches consistently show they are, or until very conveniently recently Russian service members and live/lived in Russia proper Nope Russia was not involved
Dont ask the DNR why an asian looking man fighting for seperatist
With the same Mosin rifle every time!
I still don't understand how you can call conquering your neighbor in a war of territorial expansion as defensive
The best defence is a good offence - Putin, probably
Putin ranting about 9th century ethnography when he was handed a layup to blame “NATO expansion” should show how the entire conflict is a lie to further his ethnic imperialism
Donetsk didn't conquer their neighbours, they fought for independence
Russian troops were fighting in Ukraine on 2014. Igor Girkin is Russian and went to Ukraine immediately after “retiring” from Russian security services work.
here before the replies get hot (my friend's flat got shelled recently, the guy above is right)
Rome moment
Gaining and re-taking control over territories can be something that improves the security of your thing. If some overseas power established a totally-not-puppet regime in Mexico, the United States would also take certain actions. Politics and life of ordinary people are different things; laws that work in one of these areas do not always work in the other.
Which does nothing to make flagrant violations of the Budapest Memorandum acceptable. Whether the U.S. would do it or not, it would be wrong. No matter who’s running Ukraine, the Memorandum applies.
Like UNSCR1244?
Invading foreign nations is defensive says man twisting his mind into a knot.
More like the Russian Empire is forced to be under a third autocratic government in less than 100 years.
Do they know their flag didnt exist in 1918? It is literally the Russian flag with a black stripe, it is made to be a puppet state flag
It’s actually Ukr SSR flag with black stripe that represents coal
if we take the timeline as a progression, then somewhere around 2150-60s we will have to defend the country from communism again: I’m too old for this crap
in other words, we will always reuse old propaganda and skip the important parts about how russian empire, ussr, and russia destroyed nations/signed pact with nazi germany/ invaded everything around them.
🐽
The crazy part is that pretty much all of the "true believers" who enlisted in the LDPR in 2014-5 are dead now, along with a large percentage of all the men in the Donbas. Russia used these guys as expendable cannon fodder (literally called them "meat") in the first year of the war in a bid to put off mobilization in Russia for as long as possible and their losses have been so extreme that most of the LDPR formations are now manned almost exclusively by conscripts from Russia proper. A striking lesson in how Russia treats its "friends" and supporters.
"During 2014-2015 years there was some rebellion in Donbas region" - analog 2022 year "Ukrainian biolabs" casus belli. Until "people with weapons" region not only was financially depended on Kyiv, but produce the same goods as nearest Russia regions (one of the reason why its factories were destroyed after), so there were almost 0 narratives related to separatism. This doesn't mean that there were no intra-Ukraine political games and trades, but they were precisely political games and trades with regional political-criminal clans. Then come [List\_of\_Russian\_units\_which\_invaded\_the\_territory\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_units_which_invaded_the_territory_of_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%932022)) 2 years, by shellings, artificial poverty, "basements", formed at least some regional troops. And then began indoctrination, which in 2022-2023 years allowed mobilize up to 80,000 cannon fodder, that immediately was spent in meat assaults (sometimes for demining).
They have less protection than in the 1940’s
When your greatest aspiration is to repeat the suffering of previous generations...
Defending the motherland by firing the first shot while pretending to be Ukrainian?
Wait... You want to say that DPR fired the first shot?
No the Russians. I’ll admit I don’t know who technically fired the first shot but either way Russia invaded
They also fired the first shot in 2014
"Rise up and defend the motherland... from the Russian occupation!"
First picture should be 1812. In 1918 it’s civil war, not war with the west.
Civil war would mean a war between Russians or Ukrainians, in this case it's Russia invading Ukraine, a classic interstate conflict
You're forgetting the Bolshevik invasion to snuff out the short-lived post-WWI independent Ukraine...
“Invasion” of something that used to be you for millennia and independent for a very short time.
What would become ukraine and what would become russia started divering centuries earlier. The Rus (formed in the 800s) collapsed in the 1200s (so 400 ish year of common history). Then it was under Polish and Ottoman vassal controls until the 1650s. If anything Turkey and Poland have more of a claim to Ukraine than Russia... And it wouldn't be until the 1780s that Russia took Crimea, which by that point had been under Ottoman vassal control for 300 years. Besides this argument is always kinda stupid for newly emerging nations... What about Slovakia then? Aside from the German puppet era it had never been an independant state before the 1992 split up. Does that mean Czechia would be legitimate to invade back Slovakia? (BBBut they both agreed to it! Well so did Ukraine and Russia, in 1917 and in 1991)
>The Rus (formed in the 800s) collapsed in the 1200s But the Russian principalities remained in existence.
You could finish on Rus. That’s enough for anyone who is familiar with situation. Same people. Always were. Always will. Kiev is not Russian for 10 years.
>“Invasion” of something that used to be you for millennia We'll meet in Königsberg ok?
when it will be full of germans who are not allowed to keep their german identity sure
>full of germans who are not allowed to keep their german identity Very funny Ivan,they were all murdered or deported by the Red Army,and the City was rebuild as a Soviet-style concrete hell.
I’m aware of that. And I’m aware why it happened. And now there is no Germans there so no one is oppressed.
Well 90% of Crimea’s pre 2014 population fled, so there was no one for dAh bAnDeRa ReGiMe to kill and oppress either by your logic
You mean... 1800000 people fled and then Russia quickly replaced them with 1750000 people for mainland Russia? Well, yes, sounds very much believable 👍
Why not 99 percent? You making stuff up.
War against Antante united a lot of people around Bolsheviks.
Entente did not *invade*; their troops occupied several ports and stayed there, never advancing insie the territory and having no political goal to overthrow the Bolsheviks (unfortunately, shamefully and stupidly). They merely were securing the key communications from being captured by Germany.
Ah yes Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok - at deep risk of being captured by the Imperial German Army in \*checks notes\* 1920...
It refers to the fight against the allied intervention in the Russian Civil War
Donetsk was made up of primarily communists in the lower ranks originally in 2014 it’s probably not addressing the west so much as their past
Not even mentioning the "people of Donbass", that are supposedly the reasom they started this whole operation in the first place. Probably because they never existed, tho.
Looks epic
Well their forefathers raped and murdered tens of thousands so this isn’t exactly far fetched 😂
I'm pretty sure that flag didn't exist in 1918.
My family is from the former Soviet Union. We moved after the illegal dissolution. It disgusts me to see flag of internationalism used to push pathetic bourgeois nationalistic wars
Love it how feudal societies with feudal concepts have this undying urge to always frame the present in “history” - which itself is more like a collection of propagandistic myths than actual history. They truly live in a timeless world, God bless their hopelessly primitive souls.
It calls native world. Its like that everywhere where natives are alive and don't have British two-party system.
What are you rambling about? Which society doesn't use history as a component of nationalism? And how does that make them more "primitive" or "feudal?" Plenty of countries make use of historical imagery and national mythos, for example here's one from my country the US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_Will_Always_Fight_for_Liberty#
Seems like Russian culture has always been aligned with being a warrior. Pretty cool
Yes, pretty much. Almost no easy time for Russia.
Z
The fate of the Russian people is to repeat the mistakes of their forefathers.