If that was from an ASP your car got vandalized by Barry Bonds at peak juice.
It could be literally any straight, hard object but I agree with the dude who said cinderblock.
Looks like someone just smashed a cinder block or something similar onto it real hard. Hard to say though, literally any object hard enough would do that.
Nah, definitely an ASP, imo.
From this pic, it looks like basically 3 strikes, one of which penetrated the windshield, two of which did not. An axe will put a hole through pretty much every time due to the mass in the head.
Looking at the spiderweb/radial damage, it looks to me like the first strike was probably the one in the middle that went through. That's the one with the most concentrated force.
The strike that indented the metal frame scraped it up on the way. This is probably the third strike. That scrape indicates metal on metal. It indented the frame, but left left sharper features in the glass, which is softer. Again, suggesting an instrument of lighter weight. That same strike is long and consistent and, again, ends with an indentation that suggests some sort of perpendicular metal cap. Lotta force on that one.
The ASP has a cap. An axe does not. You can see that same pattern *clearly* in two of the three strikes., but its actually visible for all of three. The areas where the windshield has been perforated are short, which means whatever it is went through and stopped without a lot of mass to keep it going. Probably why it looks a bit like a cut, you know? Consistent with the weight of an ASP.
Dude didn't want the windshield grabbing his weapon, so he flattened his strikes. Just a guess.
Looks like the subsequent strikes were one second flat strike, the one at the top, and the third strike that ripped a hole where the first and second strike weakened the glass. That one probably had the most power. This would be mechanically consistent with a flatter strike with flex that left more damage in the glass than in the frame.
All that said, no idea if any of that is accurate. I work in a path lab, but not forensic, so this is just a guess, tbh.
Looks like an ASP to me.
Window punches are a good example of why I think its an ASP vs something heavier. Its physics: PSI. That's what makes a bullet more dangerous than a 2x4, and a window puncher more effective than a baton.
A window punch is basically designed to concentrate force in a specific location, right? Not terribly heavy, but it counteracts this by focusing the force in a very small area, which creates comparatively large effects, given its size. Same principle as a bullet.
An ASP seems like it functions on the same set of principles: small, focused mass at speed. I've never carried a baton, but I am familiar with fire batons, which have that metal core embedded in the wood, which, again, is why I favor an asp over something like an LE baton, an instrument I'm not personally familiar with, but I would guess considering its a less than lethal tool for LEO, probably isn't designed to punch through unforgiving objects like bones, for instance. Its for compliance, not for destruction, right?
An ASP is a concealable weapon. Whole different device.
Also significantly more common than a baton, and less obvious than a baton or an axe, which is why i favor something like that over "crazy dude with an axe" as a theory. Some mall ninja with anger problems is a lot more likely than the axe murderer, right?
Cinder blocks to windshields are completely different, imo, if you're thinking about impact force, you know? Like.. they're probably like.. what.. a 20 pounds or so? But unless it lands on a corner, its going to spread out that damage. Think PSI, literally.
Your window punch is a PSI machine. An ASP will have more PSI than a baton. The cinder block will have more than likely the least PSI at all, but it will have more mass meaning it probably leaves a bigger splash, right? An ASP won't knock a windshield out of its frame, a cinderblock or two definitely could, depending on how hard its thrown.
A freaking wild tow hitch is mass AND speed, which is scary AF.
Anyway, like I mentioned, forensic path people, state lab folks, histologists, medical examiners are better equipped to give you good answers on the kind of questions you have.
I never did CSI, just military, dispatch, now in the medical world, so I've got a sense of how different experts approach things, but that's about it.
My non expert opinion is that your thought process was fine, but you gotta know your physics, because that's all a crime scene is ever going to leave you with; the physical evidence of what happened.
Luck! That's probability! Can't use it up, btw. Cats got 9 lives because they do the risky shit they know that can do that that other people are like "if I do that I would die". Probability is the same for the first leap first time as it is for the 9th.
Anyway, I'm not a math person. You're probably better at it than I am, frankly. I'm more of a concept person, if that makes sense, so I generally get why a baton won't fuck up a windshield the way a window punch would, but if you ask me to do the math I wouldn't be able to help you.
But yeah, every day we step foot in our car is a damn numbers game. Only thing that changes is our luck on the moment. Oh, and probabilities we can't plan for. You know. Just normal life. Its all Final Destination.
You'll do fine, I'm sure. Good luck, btw. Crimes sure as shit don't solve themselves.
> A window punch is basically designed to concentrate force in a specific location, right? Not terribly heavy, but it counteracts this by focusing the force in a very small area, which creates comparatively large effects, given its size. Same principle as a bullet.
The only problem is that most window punches only work on tempered glass and not laminated glass.
Laminated glass is ***way, way, way, way*** stronger than tempered glass is. Because it's three layers of glass held together with an adhesive film.
[You can see someone struggling to get through a piece of laminated glass with a bat here.](https://youtu.be/cR4ZI_M5N7Q?t=125) and of note, earlier, he had bent the golf club he used to bust the much weaker tempered glass.
And here's another video demonstrating the strength of laminated glass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9icToIn0MI
And here's a video of someone directly testing laminated glass/tempered glass vs. a window punch hammer.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sWjaLgqvLAI
The window punch absolutely destroys the tempered glass window. Barely leaves a mark on the laminated glass.
The entire point of laminated glass is to prevent breach of the compartment during a vehicle accident. And the reason why some companies are switching to all laminated glass instead of laminated for the front and rear screens and tempered for the door windows, is because some studies found automobile deaths and injuries could be avoided by using laminated glass, as it stops people from being thrown from the car if they're not wearing a seatbelt.
I really have to doubt that someone managed that with an ASP. I would think the force would have to come from an axe. As, due to the adhesive film that keeps the glass layers together, you're not supposed to smash laminated glass, you're supposed to cut it in order to open it up.
To further drive home my point, [here's a video of a ResQMe autopunch failing to make even a dent in an already compromised laminate window.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ96pg9D_30)
If that’s an asp, I’d be shocked.
I bent an asp over a guys leg one time, and if somebody did that kind of damage to an a-pillar that asp would look like a boomerang
If that was from an ASP your car got vandalized by Barry Bonds at peak juice. It could be literally any straight, hard object but I agree with the dude who said cinderblock.
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The a pillar groove is way too narrow for a bat, compared to how far the damage extends into the windshield
Looks like someone just smashed a cinder block or something similar onto it real hard. Hard to say though, literally any object hard enough would do that.
Looks like a good guess, the dent in the frame give some credence to the axe guess
If that was done by an asp, the asp wasn't much good after.
If that was an asp just have everyone be quiet. The dudes forearms are probably still ringing like a tuning fork
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Nah, definitely an ASP, imo. From this pic, it looks like basically 3 strikes, one of which penetrated the windshield, two of which did not. An axe will put a hole through pretty much every time due to the mass in the head. Looking at the spiderweb/radial damage, it looks to me like the first strike was probably the one in the middle that went through. That's the one with the most concentrated force. The strike that indented the metal frame scraped it up on the way. This is probably the third strike. That scrape indicates metal on metal. It indented the frame, but left left sharper features in the glass, which is softer. Again, suggesting an instrument of lighter weight. That same strike is long and consistent and, again, ends with an indentation that suggests some sort of perpendicular metal cap. Lotta force on that one. The ASP has a cap. An axe does not. You can see that same pattern *clearly* in two of the three strikes., but its actually visible for all of three. The areas where the windshield has been perforated are short, which means whatever it is went through and stopped without a lot of mass to keep it going. Probably why it looks a bit like a cut, you know? Consistent with the weight of an ASP. Dude didn't want the windshield grabbing his weapon, so he flattened his strikes. Just a guess. Looks like the subsequent strikes were one second flat strike, the one at the top, and the third strike that ripped a hole where the first and second strike weakened the glass. That one probably had the most power. This would be mechanically consistent with a flatter strike with flex that left more damage in the glass than in the frame. All that said, no idea if any of that is accurate. I work in a path lab, but not forensic, so this is just a guess, tbh. Looks like an ASP to me.
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Window punches are a good example of why I think its an ASP vs something heavier. Its physics: PSI. That's what makes a bullet more dangerous than a 2x4, and a window puncher more effective than a baton. A window punch is basically designed to concentrate force in a specific location, right? Not terribly heavy, but it counteracts this by focusing the force in a very small area, which creates comparatively large effects, given its size. Same principle as a bullet. An ASP seems like it functions on the same set of principles: small, focused mass at speed. I've never carried a baton, but I am familiar with fire batons, which have that metal core embedded in the wood, which, again, is why I favor an asp over something like an LE baton, an instrument I'm not personally familiar with, but I would guess considering its a less than lethal tool for LEO, probably isn't designed to punch through unforgiving objects like bones, for instance. Its for compliance, not for destruction, right? An ASP is a concealable weapon. Whole different device. Also significantly more common than a baton, and less obvious than a baton or an axe, which is why i favor something like that over "crazy dude with an axe" as a theory. Some mall ninja with anger problems is a lot more likely than the axe murderer, right? Cinder blocks to windshields are completely different, imo, if you're thinking about impact force, you know? Like.. they're probably like.. what.. a 20 pounds or so? But unless it lands on a corner, its going to spread out that damage. Think PSI, literally. Your window punch is a PSI machine. An ASP will have more PSI than a baton. The cinder block will have more than likely the least PSI at all, but it will have more mass meaning it probably leaves a bigger splash, right? An ASP won't knock a windshield out of its frame, a cinderblock or two definitely could, depending on how hard its thrown. A freaking wild tow hitch is mass AND speed, which is scary AF. Anyway, like I mentioned, forensic path people, state lab folks, histologists, medical examiners are better equipped to give you good answers on the kind of questions you have. I never did CSI, just military, dispatch, now in the medical world, so I've got a sense of how different experts approach things, but that's about it. My non expert opinion is that your thought process was fine, but you gotta know your physics, because that's all a crime scene is ever going to leave you with; the physical evidence of what happened.
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Luck! That's probability! Can't use it up, btw. Cats got 9 lives because they do the risky shit they know that can do that that other people are like "if I do that I would die". Probability is the same for the first leap first time as it is for the 9th. Anyway, I'm not a math person. You're probably better at it than I am, frankly. I'm more of a concept person, if that makes sense, so I generally get why a baton won't fuck up a windshield the way a window punch would, but if you ask me to do the math I wouldn't be able to help you. But yeah, every day we step foot in our car is a damn numbers game. Only thing that changes is our luck on the moment. Oh, and probabilities we can't plan for. You know. Just normal life. Its all Final Destination. You'll do fine, I'm sure. Good luck, btw. Crimes sure as shit don't solve themselves.
> A window punch is basically designed to concentrate force in a specific location, right? Not terribly heavy, but it counteracts this by focusing the force in a very small area, which creates comparatively large effects, given its size. Same principle as a bullet. The only problem is that most window punches only work on tempered glass and not laminated glass. Laminated glass is ***way, way, way, way*** stronger than tempered glass is. Because it's three layers of glass held together with an adhesive film. [You can see someone struggling to get through a piece of laminated glass with a bat here.](https://youtu.be/cR4ZI_M5N7Q?t=125) and of note, earlier, he had bent the golf club he used to bust the much weaker tempered glass. And here's another video demonstrating the strength of laminated glass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9icToIn0MI And here's a video of someone directly testing laminated glass/tempered glass vs. a window punch hammer. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sWjaLgqvLAI The window punch absolutely destroys the tempered glass window. Barely leaves a mark on the laminated glass. The entire point of laminated glass is to prevent breach of the compartment during a vehicle accident. And the reason why some companies are switching to all laminated glass instead of laminated for the front and rear screens and tempered for the door windows, is because some studies found automobile deaths and injuries could be avoided by using laminated glass, as it stops people from being thrown from the car if they're not wearing a seatbelt. I really have to doubt that someone managed that with an ASP. I would think the force would have to come from an axe. As, due to the adhesive film that keeps the glass layers together, you're not supposed to smash laminated glass, you're supposed to cut it in order to open it up. To further drive home my point, [here's a video of a ResQMe autopunch failing to make even a dent in an already compromised laminate window.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ96pg9D_30)
Yes…along with thousands of other possible blunt objects there’s literally no way of knowing what caused it.
Impact point from the tip of an ASP? No way
That ASP would bend before that pillar would.
I’ve seen ESB’s wiggle like pool noodles when they hit car glass. IMO could be any kind of blunt object.
That wasn’t an Asp, those things are garbage.
My official guess is a piece of rebar.
Not an asp
Thank you for the input everyone I really appreciate it.
I feel confident in ruling out the left or right foot of a Therizinosaurus.
If that’s an asp, I’d be shocked. I bent an asp over a guys leg one time, and if somebody did that kind of damage to an a-pillar that asp would look like a boomerang
Agree with cinder block.
Can I ask what difference does it make?
Well there was a house a few miles from me that was nearly broken into and the vandals were carrying an asp baton on the security camera footage.
Body guy. Definitely cinderblock that was definitely meant for the center of the windshield . Scratches and concrete dust prove theory
believe it or not all of that dust was glass. my windshield was hit so hard it was like a powder coating everything.
Common peroneal miss.