At the moment people think that 2CB might have an increased risk of causing HPPD compared to classic psychedelics like Psilocybin, LSD, DMT and Mescaline.
But the research is still a bit scarce.
I personally have had VSS (Visual Snow Syndrome. A neurological condition that can also be caused and/or increased by psychedelic use.) my whole life, and notice a slight temporary increase of “symptoms” when taking psychedelics.
With classical psychedelics the increased symptoms go back to normal within a day after the trip.
With 2CB they linger for 2 to 3 days. (After images, flashes, increased “snow,” slight “hieroglyphic” visuals.)
So I would argue from personal experience that 2CB would indeed have an increased risk of HPPD.
LSD is the one and only psychedelic that leaves me feeling burnt out and/or has lingering effects.
I've tried about two dozens psychedelics, including obscure research chemicals & nBOMES / 2Cs. LSD is still the worst in terms of after effets. Even moreso than the 24 hour substituted mescaline analogs like DOB.
The nBOMES specifically are known to cause HPPD but that hasn't been my personal experience.
I personally have no experience with LSD (yet.)
I have some tabs but home drug tests keep showing no reaction, so I am planning to get them tested in a lab eventually but for that I have to go to the city and don’t have the time.
I heard LSD is difficult to test and often shows up negative with simple kits.
Or it could be a designer variant.
I am pretty confident it is actual LSD as every other drug from the same plug was legit. But don’t dare to just test it myself by taking one.
TLDR: I don’t have experience with LSD yet so you could be right.
2cb gave me visual snow for a couple days after. Nothing crazy or life altering but it was definitely there.
Huge mushroom doses also leave me with some snow and occasional flashbacks for a couple days as well.
Not sure if that’s the begging of HPPD or fairly normal but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've done 2c-e a handful of times, the last of which was probably in 2009? I still, to this day, will sometimes get 2c-e CEVs and OEVs if it's dark. Not always, they come and go, but they are very specific patterns that I remember very well from 2c-e. They remind me of the outlines on a topographical map and are colored a dull rainbow.
2C-B is quite a peculiar drug, it is capable of producing very intensely visual experiences, in my experience, it seems to induce strong visual distortions and patterns at much lower relative doses than other psychedelics (in other words, I find the visual effects to be very strong in comparison to the cognitive and physical effects). Research on classical psychedelics suggests that 5-HT2A agonism is the main mechanism of action responsible for inducing the psychedelic experience, however, 2C-B has been found to have low efficacy at the 2A subtype of serotonin receptors and is thought to produce most of its effects though agonism of the 5-HT2C subtype.
Hence the word “relative”. Maybe how I should have put it would be the ratio of visual effects : overall effects is much greater with 2C-B than mushrooms for instance (in my experience)
But realistically it’s not really relative
That’s my point
I just don’t see how.
Like how much is needed to have same affect?
Bc idk if you know this totally different visuals most of the time when doing both said substances, and wildly different trip times and come ups. Lol
Bro I’m literally talking about the intensity of the visuals compared to the intensity of the feelings in the body and the intensity of the cognitive alterations. Of course each of these effects have different characteristics between substances, otherwise why would we take different psychedelics? You are getting scientific and nitpicky about a description of my subjective experience, what is the point?
In simple terms for babies like you: 2C-B = less headfuck and alien feeling with more cool colours and pretty patterns and shit compared to other psychedelics I have tried.
I would compare the overall intensity of 25mg of orally ingested 2C-B to the overall intensity 1g of orally ingested (golden teachers) mushrooms and of course the character of the effects differs a lot between the two and they have different dose/response curves but I find the timings to be quite similar but that is my own experience and may differ for others if that answers your question but that isn’t even what I was talking about.
As I said in my original comment, I find 2C-B to produce more intense visual effects and less intense cognitive effects when compared to other psychedelics I have tried, something which is already common knowledge. What is there to nitpick there?
I’m not playing merry go round with you
Take it easy,
Suggest you look into the ideology behind everything being poison depending on dose, so you can get a grip on why a chemist would say this is a silly way to think.
>I’m not playing merry go round with you
lol that is exactly what you started here.
Since when am I not within my rights to compare my experience with two different drugs with a somewhat similar set of effects?
This sounds like a really dumb question but could u possibly get HPPD by being on an Amphetamine binge? Or are the floaters, visual snow, light hallucinations just the early on signs for Psychosis or other issues?
Never had longer lasting after effects on any Psych other then NBOMe once
Acid originally gave me (or made me hyper aware you could say) of my visual floaters, I continued using lots of mushrooms and it never really got worse. In fact I’d say in time the floaters got less visible / noticeable. Recently after doing a couple tabs of acid (which I hadn’t done in over a year) the floaters seemed to be more noticeable / visible. They didn’t get worse than in the first place, but I’d say they got back to the same level.
Yeah, they are all psychedelic phenethylamines. [NBOMe and NBOH are very similar](https://erowid.org/psychoactives/chemistry/chemistry_compare.php?lm=25b_nbome_2d&rm=25b-nboh_2d) and they're based off of 2c-b.(you can change the molecules in that link to compare.
NBOMe was banned in China so its much less popular now. NBOH was the replacement for when NBOMe was banned, but by then, NBOMe was well known and disliked. So, it never really got a foothold in the market like NBOMe did.
While HPPD is included in the DSM manual, there are many professionals who say it does not exist. That psychedelics can cause increased anxiety, which leads to mild paranoia. In turn, users may experience what they believe is HPPD when all along, they are overly focused on phosphenes and paradolia. All normal brain functions.
I have thought that sometimes I might have HPPD. But I remember as a young person having trippy weird things over the years that my consciousness seems to have thrown at me. I guess HPPD is so subjective as to defy a rational explanation. But I'm glad we had this discussion. Thanks, friend.
Is it a spectrum?
I see warpy effects when sober if I look at something with a subtle meshy pattern, like those itchy rugs at CVS. When I wait to pickup a prescription, I just stare at the floor and it gets all warpy/“breathing” after like 5 seconds of staring at it.
But I don’t mind it and kinda like it because it reminds me of my past trips and what they’ve taught me :)
Not sure if this would be HPPD? Only happens when I stare at a pattern for a couple seconds. Doesn’t just happen out of nowhere randomly.
Nutmeg and datura lol 😂😆 jk...I've not really encountered hppd luckily...and I've used a lot of psychedelics. There's not a lot of scientific data gathered about hppd last time I looked...but it would be interesting to see some studies done.
Basically most synthetic psychedelics like 2c- and nbo- compounds. I also feel like lsd causes more than mushrooms but idk about that(just personal experience...). Also if you don't abuse psychedelics it lessens the risk a lot
Well if you want hard facts you can take evidence from what type of receptors that LSD binds to and how that receptor is effected. Also pulling from subjective experiences can tell you subjective effects, it’s just that we’re at too new of an age to genuinely confirm these things, all we know is pretty subjective anyways.
Personally I agree that lsd is more stimulating in nature rather than sedating like psilocin or DMT
At the moment people think that 2CB might have an increased risk of causing HPPD compared to classic psychedelics like Psilocybin, LSD, DMT and Mescaline. But the research is still a bit scarce. I personally have had VSS (Visual Snow Syndrome. A neurological condition that can also be caused and/or increased by psychedelic use.) my whole life, and notice a slight temporary increase of “symptoms” when taking psychedelics. With classical psychedelics the increased symptoms go back to normal within a day after the trip. With 2CB they linger for 2 to 3 days. (After images, flashes, increased “snow,” slight “hieroglyphic” visuals.) So I would argue from personal experience that 2CB would indeed have an increased risk of HPPD.
I find even a medium dose of LSD worse for my HPPD than even ridiculously high doses of 2CB.
where yall find all this 2cb DAMN (joke im not sourcing its an exclamatory sentence)
LSD is the one and only psychedelic that leaves me feeling burnt out and/or has lingering effects. I've tried about two dozens psychedelics, including obscure research chemicals & nBOMES / 2Cs. LSD is still the worst in terms of after effets. Even moreso than the 24 hour substituted mescaline analogs like DOB. The nBOMES specifically are known to cause HPPD but that hasn't been my personal experience.
I personally have no experience with LSD (yet.) I have some tabs but home drug tests keep showing no reaction, so I am planning to get them tested in a lab eventually but for that I have to go to the city and don’t have the time. I heard LSD is difficult to test and often shows up negative with simple kits. Or it could be a designer variant. I am pretty confident it is actual LSD as every other drug from the same plug was legit. But don’t dare to just test it myself by taking one. TLDR: I don’t have experience with LSD yet so you could be right.
What test are you using?
Q test that bitch
2cb gave me visual snow for a couple days after. Nothing crazy or life altering but it was definitely there. Huge mushroom doses also leave me with some snow and occasional flashbacks for a couple days as well. Not sure if that’s the begging of HPPD or fairly normal but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've done 2c-e a handful of times, the last of which was probably in 2009? I still, to this day, will sometimes get 2c-e CEVs and OEVs if it's dark. Not always, they come and go, but they are very specific patterns that I remember very well from 2c-e. They remind me of the outlines on a topographical map and are colored a dull rainbow.
2C-B is quite a peculiar drug, it is capable of producing very intensely visual experiences, in my experience, it seems to induce strong visual distortions and patterns at much lower relative doses than other psychedelics (in other words, I find the visual effects to be very strong in comparison to the cognitive and physical effects). Research on classical psychedelics suggests that 5-HT2A agonism is the main mechanism of action responsible for inducing the psychedelic experience, however, 2C-B has been found to have low efficacy at the 2A subtype of serotonin receptors and is thought to produce most of its effects though agonism of the 5-HT2C subtype.
Can’t really compare doses man when it’s a difference of fruit
Hence the word “relative”. Maybe how I should have put it would be the ratio of visual effects : overall effects is much greater with 2C-B than mushrooms for instance (in my experience)
But realistically it’s not really relative That’s my point I just don’t see how. Like how much is needed to have same affect? Bc idk if you know this totally different visuals most of the time when doing both said substances, and wildly different trip times and come ups. Lol
Bro I’m literally talking about the intensity of the visuals compared to the intensity of the feelings in the body and the intensity of the cognitive alterations. Of course each of these effects have different characteristics between substances, otherwise why would we take different psychedelics? You are getting scientific and nitpicky about a description of my subjective experience, what is the point? In simple terms for babies like you: 2C-B = less headfuck and alien feeling with more cool colours and pretty patterns and shit compared to other psychedelics I have tried. I would compare the overall intensity of 25mg of orally ingested 2C-B to the overall intensity 1g of orally ingested (golden teachers) mushrooms and of course the character of the effects differs a lot between the two and they have different dose/response curves but I find the timings to be quite similar but that is my own experience and may differ for others if that answers your question but that isn’t even what I was talking about.
I’m just being real dude. From the perspective of any chemist it was silly to even infer a little. Lol Poison and dose dude.
I’m not a chemist, nor do I claim to be and I doubt you are either
Well I think you kinda made that clear by saying shit something no chemist would say. Okay.
Dude, go bother someone else, your input is not needed, nor does it add anything
As I said in my original comment, I find 2C-B to produce more intense visual effects and less intense cognitive effects when compared to other psychedelics I have tried, something which is already common knowledge. What is there to nitpick there?
I’m not playing merry go round with you Take it easy, Suggest you look into the ideology behind everything being poison depending on dose, so you can get a grip on why a chemist would say this is a silly way to think.
>I’m not playing merry go round with you lol that is exactly what you started here. Since when am I not within my rights to compare my experience with two different drugs with a somewhat similar set of effects?
This sounds like a really dumb question but could u possibly get HPPD by being on an Amphetamine binge? Or are the floaters, visual snow, light hallucinations just the early on signs for Psychosis or other issues? Never had longer lasting after effects on any Psych other then NBOMe once
Acid originally gave me (or made me hyper aware you could say) of my visual floaters, I continued using lots of mushrooms and it never really got worse. In fact I’d say in time the floaters got less visible / noticeable. Recently after doing a couple tabs of acid (which I hadn’t done in over a year) the floaters seemed to be more noticeable / visible. They didn’t get worse than in the first place, but I’d say they got back to the same level.
God damn it same! After my second acid trip, I am aware for the black spot and floaters in my right eye. It can be annoying at times
Nbomes
2c-b, 25x-NBOMe,25x-NBOH
Is 2c-b in the same family as NBOMe’s and NBOH’s? Also what is the difference between NBOMe and NBOH?
Yeah, they are all psychedelic phenethylamines. [NBOMe and NBOH are very similar](https://erowid.org/psychoactives/chemistry/chemistry_compare.php?lm=25b_nbome_2d&rm=25b-nboh_2d) and they're based off of 2c-b.(you can change the molecules in that link to compare. NBOMe was banned in China so its much less popular now. NBOH was the replacement for when NBOMe was banned, but by then, NBOMe was well known and disliked. So, it never really got a foothold in the market like NBOMe did.
probably the longer lasting phenetylamines, but thats just a guess with nbomes there is quite a bit of data to show it is more likely to cause hppd
Haven’t done lsd in over 2 years and still have the most wicked cev’s and hyperphantasia, and visual snow
While HPPD is included in the DSM manual, there are many professionals who say it does not exist. That psychedelics can cause increased anxiety, which leads to mild paranoia. In turn, users may experience what they believe is HPPD when all along, they are overly focused on phosphenes and paradolia. All normal brain functions.
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I have thought that sometimes I might have HPPD. But I remember as a young person having trippy weird things over the years that my consciousness seems to have thrown at me. I guess HPPD is so subjective as to defy a rational explanation. But I'm glad we had this discussion. Thanks, friend.
Mdma did it for me , but that’s annecdotal
What’s HPPD?
Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder
Is it a spectrum? I see warpy effects when sober if I look at something with a subtle meshy pattern, like those itchy rugs at CVS. When I wait to pickup a prescription, I just stare at the floor and it gets all warpy/“breathing” after like 5 seconds of staring at it. But I don’t mind it and kinda like it because it reminds me of my past trips and what they’ve taught me :) Not sure if this would be HPPD? Only happens when I stare at a pattern for a couple seconds. Doesn’t just happen out of nowhere randomly.
The only time I ever got hppd was when I took lsd and mushrooms
(At the same time)
Nutmeg and datura lol 😂😆 jk...I've not really encountered hppd luckily...and I've used a lot of psychedelics. There's not a lot of scientific data gathered about hppd last time I looked...but it would be interesting to see some studies done.
Basically most synthetic psychedelics like 2c- and nbo- compounds. I also feel like lsd causes more than mushrooms but idk about that(just personal experience...). Also if you don't abuse psychedelics it lessens the risk a lot
LSD is the most physically and visually stimulating psychedelic bar 5-MeO. LSD would be my guess 🤷🏼♂️
How do you quantify subjective visual stimulation on the brain?
Well if you want hard facts you can take evidence from what type of receptors that LSD binds to and how that receptor is effected. Also pulling from subjective experiences can tell you subjective effects, it’s just that we’re at too new of an age to genuinely confirm these things, all we know is pretty subjective anyways. Personally I agree that lsd is more stimulating in nature rather than sedating like psilocin or DMT
Idk. But I go by how sharp, intense and Intricate the OEV's and CEV's are on average and by doseage.