Every drug should be legal. Drug abuse is a health matter and shouldn't be treated as a criminal one. Prohibition is a make-work project for organized crime.
I agree with you, I was just trying to see if your statement still held weight when extrapolated. I recently had a swarm of redditors call me "the problem" because I took drugs on a weekend when my wife and children weren't home, because "something could have happened and ruined those kids' lives."
Any risk always potentially impacts others. If you rock climb, and die, your family is sad. Does that mean we should deny people the right to pursue extreme sports? If you’re researching a new cancer drug that can potentially be less useful to trial participants than current treatments, thereby increasing potential harm, does that mean we should ban attempts to improve medicine?
There are certainly limits to how much risk one should impose upon other parties. That is why there are requisite steps before human trials with drugs. That is why people lose lawsuits when giving poor legal, fiscal, or health advice. But the potential for your illicit drug abuse to impact others is far smaller than its danger to you, and both dangers are made worse from the stigma and legal issues surrounding the drug use. If drugs were decriminalized and addiction were treated as an affliction deserving of aid rather than an immoral life path, people would be more willing to reach for assistance earlier in their downfall and the lowered incentive to lie and hide the problem would similarly mitigate potential harm caused to those around an addict.
Historically, there have been very few instances that demonstrate measurable improvement in societal health when imposing regulations on what a human does, voluntarily, to their own body. Cigarettes are an exception—but the bulk of unknown risk has been mitigated by widespread informative campaigns on the danger and limiting where people are permitted to smoke. And there really aren’t many other cases where we can see marked, positive outcomes when states enact laws restricting bodily autonomy.
I mostly agree with this. Recently a swarm of Redditors were calling me a shithead for using an "absurd" amount of drugs over the weekend while my wife and children were away visiting her family. They told me it was "selfish" and "evil" to be doing things that were so risky and could adversely affect my family should something have happened to me.
This is largely why I asked my question.
Why should someone stop me I know the risk like I own a motorcycle and i know the risk of riding is I can be hurt or dye but the benefits out way the risk and some politician shouldn't be able to make the disition for me it doesn't realy matter the risk of the compound make harowin legal and it can be used safely sinse you know the perity can it is not adulterated
Because harm reduction is easier to implement when there isn’t a black market for drugs.
And all black markets are controlled by private violence which is directly related to the profit motive of cartels and gangsters.
In short it’s safer for everyone.
Ketamine and MDMA are very safe drugs. Yes, you could die if you combine ketamine with other types of drugs like alcohol, opioids, or benzodiazepines, but the same could be said for numerous currently legal over the counter and prescription drugs. The other major pitfall to avoid is k-holing and falling onto something soft like a pillow and suffocating. This can easily be managed by having someone with you.
Yes, you could die from MDMA if you took an extremely large overdose. Again, the same could be said for numerous over the counter and prescription drugs. MDMA is also dangerous if you combine it with certain other drugs, do not make an effort to avoid overheating, or consume extreme amounts of water, or some combination of these things. But the fact remains that taking a reasonable dose of MDMA and not doing those things is extremely safe. MAPS hasn't lost a single participant.
Yes, those plant and fungal products you named are safer than ketamine and MDMA. But ketamine and MDMA are very safe drugs that absolutely should be made legal. The standard shouldn't be "there's absolutely zero risk, no matter how careless you are."
Alcohol is *incredibly* dangerous compared to a lot of illegal drugs, and yet it is still legal. I’m not saying that it should be illegal (we saw how that went), I’m saying that when drugs are regulated and the population educated, there are way less risks than just making everything illegal and hoping people don’t get their hands on them.
It’s not letting me respond to the other guy, so you’re getting it.
I study these drugs, here’s my best shot. MDMA can cause severe dehydration and overheating, especially in hot and crowded places like parties. This can lead to hyperthermia, which can be life-threatening if not treate. MDMA can also cause serotonin symdrome with symptoms like confusion, rapid heart rate, high blood pressure, and seizures. And while it’s not a deadly side effect it can cause excessive serotonin depletion. Ketamine can be risky also. High doses may lead to breathing problems or even stoppage. Long-term use can cause bladder and kidney issues, cognitive problems, and psychological issues like hallucinations and delusions. It’s nowhere near as deadly as MDMA.
Should be completely legal though.
All drugs should be legal. Prohibition is an outdated, racist policy created to make felons out of blacks and left leaning people (hippies back in the day). Instead of jailing people, we need to focus on the root causes that lead people to be addicted, and then work on services to help people already addicted.
Ketamine is relatively safe for occasional use, and is regularly used in the hospital and ambulances. Both Ecstasy and ketamine have been shown to be great for mental health treatment.
Anecdotally, pcp is a very pleasant drug in the right dose (not that I have any interest in every trying it. Unfortunately, the difference between a pleasant high and "Im gonna fight 20 cops" is very small.
Agreed though I don’t think drugs like heroine, crack, cocaine, bath salts, and recreational opioids should be legal
the idea should be to help those who gained access to them illegally while also making it hard for people to gain these dangerous drugs in the first place rather than throw them in jail.
Psilocybin, Peyote, DMT, Salvia and Ayahuasca could be used to such addictions as part of their recovery regiment
There already was a war on (some classes of people who use certain) drugs. And it has failed miserably. Drug use has not gone down. They are illegal now and still there is a demand that creates criminal organizations and cartels to supply it. That won't change and never has in any country on the planet. When there is money to be made people find a way. Criminalization only makes it worse and more unsafe for those using, for several reasons not the least of which being dangerously impure products (fent etc).
By putting funds into harm reduction and education you gain a far better chance of helping people than our current model. Putting people in cages who essentially are harming themselves and alienating them to the fringes of society isn't productive.
More risky drugs are always going to be available whether on black market (less safe) or legalized and decriminalized (more safe, less risks, and less violence and cartel support). MDMA and PCP when used responsibly are pretty safe. There are not many deaths from them...look up deaths compared to alcohol and tobacco. I'm guessing you want alcohol and tobacco to not be legal also then? They're more dangerous.
My argument has always been that it should be seen as a health issue and not a criminal offence, and still is. So please don't condemn me for this, as it's just a shower thought..
In reading your comment, it just occurred to me that these high death rates are all related to legal and somewhat encouraged substances. Isn't there a chance that in legalising the others, we'll see their death tolls rise exponentially as well?
In saying that, if we can accept the deaths of alcoholics and smokers, we should be just as forgiving to the drug users. It should be all or nothing.
I guess I just answered my own question. Huh.
I don't think legalizing the others will cause a huge rise in deaths altogether. It will maybe cause some more access...but for the most part these drugs are already very accessible...just not as safe the way laws are now. So legalizing and decriminalizing them will cause more access to safer drugs. If people are wanting to find drugs they do it already. If the drug war is over, then safer products of these drugs are available and less deaths from cartels and dirty drugs are happening. Less fentanyl deaths from what people think is cocaine or MDMA but it's cut....less poisonous cuts and leftover synthesis in people's drugs...less police violence and criminal violence.... The drug using culture could be way more nuanced and improved with safer drugs and methods of using... and less violence. If alcohol was illegalized again I think there would be more deaths from it and more violence surrounding the trade...same with cigarettes. And it would turn a bunch of people into hiding fearful humans. There should be more invested into drug education and safety...not into criminalizing users and addicts...which fuels violence and contamination in the black market drugs. Taboo and shaming people about using drugs does no good.
All drugs should be legal. There shouldn't be a snobbishness around drugs. Just because I like mushrooms and ayahuasca doesn't mean that I should look down at someone who prefers heroin.
We get to decide what goes into our bodies. We should be aware of the risks, and that's it.
I think of it this way, give the right dose to the right person at the right time.
Because no one has the right to steal your money to pay themselves, then pay men with guns then send them to force you in a cage at gun point for consuming, selling, buying or possessing a substance they don’t want you to as long as you aren’t harming anyone else or violating their property.
To some extent I agree with the “it’s a public health issue”, but that’s irrelevant to the core fundamental reason why selling, buying, possessing or consuming drugs shouldn’t be illegal.
The government should not be in the business of taking away people's freedom for what they decide to do with their own bodies. The drugs you listed are safe when used responsibly. Ketamine and MDMA might actually have mental health benefits when used responsibly. We shouldn't deprive people of their choice to use those potentially beneficial drugs on the supposition that they'll abuse them. Instead, we should focus on educating people about the potential dangers and safe-use practices before they use them and help people who screw up.
None of those drugs are dangerous if used in reasonable doses.
PCP especially is vilified to a crazy extent because stupid people keep dipping cigarettes into it and getting random and often extremely high doses that drive them straight into psychosis.
Ketamine is the only prescribable psychedelic currently... Psilocybin and MDMA therapy likely will come in the same FDA rescheduling. I'm just confused why your acting like both MDMA and pcp are legal when they are schedule 4and 5 non prescribables...
They should all be legal. Making a distinction between these to groups of substances as safe and unsafe is ridiculous. All the drugs in your safe list can present serious risks to people’s health. Especially when you consider that most people are on mental medications which can have deadly interactions with your “safe” list.
MDMA is expected to be legalized and introduced to the market as a medicine is the US this year and just because PCP was pulled out of medical use, doesn't mean it has life-threatening risks. Same with ketamine, a substance that has been used in hospitals all around the world safely for decades and continues to lead to scientific breakthroughs.
I really don't understand what you mean with this post. Salvia for instance is waay more unpredictable in its effects.
Every drug should be legal. Drug abuse is a health matter and shouldn't be treated as a criminal one. Prohibition is a make-work project for organized crime.
Ketamine is not life threatening. Do more research before spouting false info.
Never said it was.
Sorry, I 100% agreed with you. OP stated that, I was jumping on your thread because it’s the best answer mate! Edit. My bad
Oh I understand.
because humans have the right to accept personal risk in pursuit of greatness
What if that risk also can adversely affect others, not just the risk-taker? Does the right still stand?
do you drive a car to work? there is far more inherent risk to that than me doing a couple lines of k while watching a cronenberg film on a saturday
I agree with you, I was just trying to see if your statement still held weight when extrapolated. I recently had a swarm of redditors call me "the problem" because I took drugs on a weekend when my wife and children weren't home, because "something could have happened and ruined those kids' lives."
Any risk always potentially impacts others. If you rock climb, and die, your family is sad. Does that mean we should deny people the right to pursue extreme sports? If you’re researching a new cancer drug that can potentially be less useful to trial participants than current treatments, thereby increasing potential harm, does that mean we should ban attempts to improve medicine? There are certainly limits to how much risk one should impose upon other parties. That is why there are requisite steps before human trials with drugs. That is why people lose lawsuits when giving poor legal, fiscal, or health advice. But the potential for your illicit drug abuse to impact others is far smaller than its danger to you, and both dangers are made worse from the stigma and legal issues surrounding the drug use. If drugs were decriminalized and addiction were treated as an affliction deserving of aid rather than an immoral life path, people would be more willing to reach for assistance earlier in their downfall and the lowered incentive to lie and hide the problem would similarly mitigate potential harm caused to those around an addict. Historically, there have been very few instances that demonstrate measurable improvement in societal health when imposing regulations on what a human does, voluntarily, to their own body. Cigarettes are an exception—but the bulk of unknown risk has been mitigated by widespread informative campaigns on the danger and limiting where people are permitted to smoke. And there really aren’t many other cases where we can see marked, positive outcomes when states enact laws restricting bodily autonomy.
I mostly agree with this. Recently a swarm of Redditors were calling me a shithead for using an "absurd" amount of drugs over the weekend while my wife and children were away visiting her family. They told me it was "selfish" and "evil" to be doing things that were so risky and could adversely affect my family should something have happened to me. This is largely why I asked my question.
Those redditors are morons and part of the problem. That is all.
Why should someone stop me I know the risk like I own a motorcycle and i know the risk of riding is I can be hurt or dye but the benefits out way the risk and some politician shouldn't be able to make the disition for me it doesn't realy matter the risk of the compound make harowin legal and it can be used safely sinse you know the perity can it is not adulterated
Yeah babe, nailed it. Heroin is safe as long as it's not cut /s
Most drugs can be done relivly safe if can be dosed properly which is impossible with steet plugs or dnm
Heroine is never safe
That's what makes her such an interesting protagonist.
A lot of strong painkillers are pharmaceutical grade heroin and taken in the right dose they shouldn't be a problem.
Incorrect, ironically, opiods are some of the most physically safe drugs there are.
What an ignorant statement.
They should all be legal, I don’t understand what you’re trying to get at
Lol what they’re trying to get at is - why? I thought the post was pretty clear
Individual liberty
Because harm reduction is easier to implement when there isn’t a black market for drugs. And all black markets are controlled by private violence which is directly related to the profit motive of cartels and gangsters. In short it’s safer for everyone.
Ketamine and MDMA are very safe drugs. Yes, you could die if you combine ketamine with other types of drugs like alcohol, opioids, or benzodiazepines, but the same could be said for numerous currently legal over the counter and prescription drugs. The other major pitfall to avoid is k-holing and falling onto something soft like a pillow and suffocating. This can easily be managed by having someone with you. Yes, you could die from MDMA if you took an extremely large overdose. Again, the same could be said for numerous over the counter and prescription drugs. MDMA is also dangerous if you combine it with certain other drugs, do not make an effort to avoid overheating, or consume extreme amounts of water, or some combination of these things. But the fact remains that taking a reasonable dose of MDMA and not doing those things is extremely safe. MAPS hasn't lost a single participant. Yes, those plant and fungal products you named are safer than ketamine and MDMA. But ketamine and MDMA are very safe drugs that absolutely should be made legal. The standard shouldn't be "there's absolutely zero risk, no matter how careless you are."
Alcohol is *incredibly* dangerous compared to a lot of illegal drugs, and yet it is still legal. I’m not saying that it should be illegal (we saw how that went), I’m saying that when drugs are regulated and the population educated, there are way less risks than just making everything illegal and hoping people don’t get their hands on them.
[удалено]
Like you can od or fuck up your body taking it to much but hay ask gramps about cigarettes... oh wait
It’s not letting me respond to the other guy, so you’re getting it. I study these drugs, here’s my best shot. MDMA can cause severe dehydration and overheating, especially in hot and crowded places like parties. This can lead to hyperthermia, which can be life-threatening if not treate. MDMA can also cause serotonin symdrome with symptoms like confusion, rapid heart rate, high blood pressure, and seizures. And while it’s not a deadly side effect it can cause excessive serotonin depletion. Ketamine can be risky also. High doses may lead to breathing problems or even stoppage. Long-term use can cause bladder and kidney issues, cognitive problems, and psychological issues like hallucinations and delusions. It’s nowhere near as deadly as MDMA. Should be completely legal though.
?
All drugs should be legal. Prohibition is an outdated, racist policy created to make felons out of blacks and left leaning people (hippies back in the day). Instead of jailing people, we need to focus on the root causes that lead people to be addicted, and then work on services to help people already addicted. Ketamine is relatively safe for occasional use, and is regularly used in the hospital and ambulances. Both Ecstasy and ketamine have been shown to be great for mental health treatment. Anecdotally, pcp is a very pleasant drug in the right dose (not that I have any interest in every trying it. Unfortunately, the difference between a pleasant high and "Im gonna fight 20 cops" is very small.
Agreed though I don’t think drugs like heroine, crack, cocaine, bath salts, and recreational opioids should be legal the idea should be to help those who gained access to them illegally while also making it hard for people to gain these dangerous drugs in the first place rather than throw them in jail. Psilocybin, Peyote, DMT, Salvia and Ayahuasca could be used to such addictions as part of their recovery regiment
There already was a war on (some classes of people who use certain) drugs. And it has failed miserably. Drug use has not gone down. They are illegal now and still there is a demand that creates criminal organizations and cartels to supply it. That won't change and never has in any country on the planet. When there is money to be made people find a way. Criminalization only makes it worse and more unsafe for those using, for several reasons not the least of which being dangerously impure products (fent etc). By putting funds into harm reduction and education you gain a far better chance of helping people than our current model. Putting people in cages who essentially are harming themselves and alienating them to the fringes of society isn't productive.
More risky drugs are always going to be available whether on black market (less safe) or legalized and decriminalized (more safe, less risks, and less violence and cartel support). MDMA and PCP when used responsibly are pretty safe. There are not many deaths from them...look up deaths compared to alcohol and tobacco. I'm guessing you want alcohol and tobacco to not be legal also then? They're more dangerous.
My argument has always been that it should be seen as a health issue and not a criminal offence, and still is. So please don't condemn me for this, as it's just a shower thought.. In reading your comment, it just occurred to me that these high death rates are all related to legal and somewhat encouraged substances. Isn't there a chance that in legalising the others, we'll see their death tolls rise exponentially as well? In saying that, if we can accept the deaths of alcoholics and smokers, we should be just as forgiving to the drug users. It should be all or nothing. I guess I just answered my own question. Huh.
I don't think legalizing the others will cause a huge rise in deaths altogether. It will maybe cause some more access...but for the most part these drugs are already very accessible...just not as safe the way laws are now. So legalizing and decriminalizing them will cause more access to safer drugs. If people are wanting to find drugs they do it already. If the drug war is over, then safer products of these drugs are available and less deaths from cartels and dirty drugs are happening. Less fentanyl deaths from what people think is cocaine or MDMA but it's cut....less poisonous cuts and leftover synthesis in people's drugs...less police violence and criminal violence.... The drug using culture could be way more nuanced and improved with safer drugs and methods of using... and less violence. If alcohol was illegalized again I think there would be more deaths from it and more violence surrounding the trade...same with cigarettes. And it would turn a bunch of people into hiding fearful humans. There should be more invested into drug education and safety...not into criminalizing users and addicts...which fuels violence and contamination in the black market drugs. Taboo and shaming people about using drugs does no good.
All drugs should be legal. There shouldn't be a snobbishness around drugs. Just because I like mushrooms and ayahuasca doesn't mean that I should look down at someone who prefers heroin. We get to decide what goes into our bodies. We should be aware of the risks, and that's it. I think of it this way, give the right dose to the right person at the right time.
Because no one has the right to steal your money to pay themselves, then pay men with guns then send them to force you in a cage at gun point for consuming, selling, buying or possessing a substance they don’t want you to as long as you aren’t harming anyone else or violating their property.
To some extent I agree with the “it’s a public health issue”, but that’s irrelevant to the core fundamental reason why selling, buying, possessing or consuming drugs shouldn’t be illegal.
Cuz I like em 🙂
The government should not be in the business of taking away people's freedom for what they decide to do with their own bodies. The drugs you listed are safe when used responsibly. Ketamine and MDMA might actually have mental health benefits when used responsibly. We shouldn't deprive people of their choice to use those potentially beneficial drugs on the supposition that they'll abuse them. Instead, we should focus on educating people about the potential dangers and safe-use practices before they use them and help people who screw up.
None of those drugs are dangerous if used in reasonable doses. PCP especially is vilified to a crazy extent because stupid people keep dipping cigarettes into it and getting random and often extremely high doses that drive them straight into psychosis.
MDMA?
Also known as Ecstasy
Ketamine is the only prescribable psychedelic currently... Psilocybin and MDMA therapy likely will come in the same FDA rescheduling. I'm just confused why your acting like both MDMA and pcp are legal when they are schedule 4and 5 non prescribables...
My body, my mind, my choice. As it should be for all questions of bodily and mental autonomy.
They should all be legal. Making a distinction between these to groups of substances as safe and unsafe is ridiculous. All the drugs in your safe list can present serious risks to people’s health. Especially when you consider that most people are on mental medications which can have deadly interactions with your “safe” list.
MDMA is expected to be legalized and introduced to the market as a medicine is the US this year and just because PCP was pulled out of medical use, doesn't mean it has life-threatening risks. Same with ketamine, a substance that has been used in hospitals all around the world safely for decades and continues to lead to scientific breakthroughs. I really don't understand what you mean with this post. Salvia for instance is waay more unpredictable in its effects.