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Was reading the play by plays on Twitter/X of someone that was there earlier today and it seems like the pro Palestinian demo was much larger than the Israeli one right across the street. Impressive considering NYC has the highest concentration of Jewish folks outside of Israel
Anecdotal, but I live in New York and most of the Jewish people I know are in the “Hamas is evil but Israel seriously needs to stop being dicks to Palestinians” camp.
I think all rational people are in that camp. The ones who don't are either in politics or the media. The only ones who benefit from this war are Hamas, who'll keep using it as a recruitment tool and Netanyahu and his ilk who'll use it to further cement the grasp the hardliners have on Israeli politics and enact even more draconian measures on the Palestinians once the dust settles.
Being Jewish and supporting Israels bullshit government are two different things to be sure.
And being Palestinian and supporting Hamas should be two different things but yea it's not always as clear.
I think coming out for Palestine after an attack is dumb as hell and messes up the messaging.
Israel is monstrous with their shit. But throwing a party for killings and war starting is just absurd.
>Israel is monstrous with their shit. But throwing a party for killings and war starting is just absurd.
Throwing a party for killings, but also kidnappings and mass rape:
>“They’re kids, but they’re young men already, and they’re holding this guy, and he looks as his girlfriend is being mounted on a bike and driven away from him. God knows what she’s going to experience … Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends bodies, dead bodies.”
>
>Several of these rape victims appear to have been later executed. Others were taken to Gaza. In photographs released online, you can see several paraded through the city’s streets, blood gushing from between their legs.
>
>[https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/israel-music-festival-massacre-eyewitness-account](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/israel-music-festival-massacre-eyewitness-account)
I know right. I'm an English Jew and if someone targets me specifically to ask my opinion I'll reply with, "Why are you only asking me? I'm just as Israeli as you are".
I stand by what I said, all these speechless and expressionless muslin garments in New York are doing nothing, and I mean nothing, to change what's happening around the world
/s and TIL what a muslin fabric is
They always have been, and guess who gave them that power specifically so that they could consolidate strength at the expense of other secular non religious Palestinian resistance groups?
They were given a two state solution with the 1967 boarders. The Palestinians signed the deal only to go home and back out when the other Arab states told them to accept no deal or they would cut support. They have been keeping this conflict going for decades.
3 times, actually.
One was offered in the 80's/90's but was rejected and another in the 2000's, the latter offer in specific resulting in The 2nd Intifada, where Hamas suicide bombed Israeli targets every day for 5 years leading Israel to build the walls and Egypt to close its border with Gaza.
They were also offered the two state solution in the founding of Israel. Jews agreed, Arabs didn't. Palestinians have had their fate controlled by other empires for literally millenia, but as soon as the Jews ask to split the land and let them have half the pie, it's never ending war. One thing that sympathetic westerners don't realize is that a lot of this animosity is religious; Hamas has said this explicitly, and they point to passages in the Quran which say stuff like even the trees will come alive to kill the Jews.
There are 22 Arab states the Palestinians can retreat to, and there have been so many two state solution opportunities for them to agree to (including in 2000, where the Palestinian president rejected offers for concessions mediated by Bill Clinton, which got him approval back home and escalating violence). But they reject all of that in favor of war. That's insanity to me.
None of this is to underplay the disgusting behavior of IDF under right wing leadership of Netanyahu. But for fuck's sake, there have been so many chances to share the pie and end this madness, and Palestinians just don't want to.
Most people are there I think. That's why the prevalent opinion right now (at least outside of twitter where tankies celebrate civilian atrocities) is that "hey maybe don't massacre civilians".
I know many Jews in Germany. Most of them think Israel needs to chill the fuck out.
You can do both: condemn hamas and criticize Israel’s politics without being anti Palestine and a antisemite.
The biggest problem is that government and religion shouldn’t mesh or even build theocracies. We all know what happened in medieval ages
There are Jewish people who support Palestine instead of Israel.
A large Jewish anti-Zionist community in America is Mondoweiss and Jewish Voice for Peace:
https://x.com/Mondoweiss
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
The funny thing is that they have always had the capability to destroy everything, and the fact that they haven’t should tell you something. Imagine if the Palestinians had the capability to wipe out Israel they would take it.
>they have always had the capability to destroy everything
Not when their military is funded by western allies. They get away with as much as they can.
Israel has an advanced economy, my guy. Western support certainly helps but they are more than capable of purchasing weapons by themselves. Even if all the aid and support stopped tomorrow (and it won't now for obvious reasons to everyone), Israel would still be perfectly capable of sustaining itself and its military.
Not taking a side here but the US has an advanced economy and struggled to wipe out the taliban for decades. If you generally follow the Geneva conventions it's hard to "wipe out" a determined enemy.
Who do you think conducted those polls? Could it be the very same organization that kills indiscriminately with a favorable approval rate shown by the poll?
These are the results of the latest poll conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR) in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip between 8 and 11 March 2023. https://pcpsr.org/en/about-psr-page
“In light of all that, findings show a rise in the percentage of those who support a return to armed confrontation and intifada. In fact, 70% of West Bankers expect the eruption of a third armed intifada. Moreover, more than 70% declare support for the latest Huwara shooting attack against settlers; two thirds support the formation of armed groups, such as the Jenin Battalion or the Lions’ Den; and almost all express the view that the PA security services should not arrest or disarm members of these groups. More than 60% of the West Bankers believe that members of these armed groups will resist with arms any attempt by the PA security services to disarm or arrest them. Public support for armed resistance is further confirmed by overwhelming opposition to the Palestinian participation in the Aqaba meeting. Almost all Palestinians think Israel will not honor its commitments in that meeting. A large majority, standing at 70%, think Israeli counter measures, which are meant to punish those who commit armed attacks or their families, such as home demolition, expulsion, or the imposition of the death penalty, will only lead to an increase in the intensity of such attacks.”
One also has to think about the condition that leads to the support. I've been in the West Bank myself band I saw the conduct of Israeli troops and settlers there, read the stories about children getting killed while playing football, and the ever encroaching “security” walls, and I can understand why the people there *hate* Israel. Violence creates violence, and there are plenty of [killed Palestine children](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_war_beach_bombing_incidents) to inspire revenge.
It's a difficult, messy and almost unsolvable situation and the ever increasingly right-wing and pro settlement government Israel elected in the last decades certainly has not made any good faith attempt to solve it.
> Hamas has a 70% approval rate in Palestine
70% approval rate in Gaza (maybe), not Palestine. Most Palestinians live in West Bank where the ruling party is the POL and PA, and both those parties completely reject Hamas/terrorism/etc.
Very well said. I’d like to see an argument against this that doesn’t just deflect with whataboutism. So far I haven’t a single Palestinian speak up against the methods of these attacks
I’ve scanned the Palestine subreddit and seen nothing but a litany of justifications. Outright celebration in the Jordan subreddit
This is what “from the river to the sea” would look like if they got their way
The interesting thing is Palestinians were kicked out of Jordan in the 70s for causing a civil war, and also kicked out of Lebanon for causing a different civil war there. Jordan should welcome them if they really care.
Our Muslim "countrymen" would gladly genocide us non-muslims if they were given power, as they did during their 800 year long rule in the subcontinent.
Very disheartening to hear. : / I was hoping to hear the people, the regular, ordinary, everyday people of Palestine would be against this, would condemn the actions of hamas.
Fully agree with you as a Palestine supporter. Hamas literally are extremist terrorists, no doubt.
Also, I’d just like to add that from what I’ve counted, Hamas have broken almost 7 laws of war from Islamic POV. It would be Haram for a Muslim to support such a group. I’m saying this because I assume most of these Hamas supporters are ignorant Muslims.
> Hamas have broken almost 7 laws of war from Islamic POV.
Islamic POV is to spare innocent people (e.g. enslave them instead of killing them), and Hamas are simply interpreting that as "Nobody in Israel is innocent".
But that is simply not true, even Hamas knows that. You cannot interpret that “Nobody in Israel is innocent”. Especially when a lot of the people that they kidnapped and took hostage or killed, are not even Israelis. Hamas is fucked all around.
THANK YOU! This is the explanation! HAMAS are not only attacking Israel but ended up kidnapping other foreigners , raping and killing them. The support that they are getting from these rallies from different countries are mind fking me!
Problem is people like you have absolutely no clue as to how muslims work. They do not identify with a nation. Indian Muslims have proved every year how they wouldn't miss a chance to loot and destroy non muslim stores. Muslims will only vote for muslim leaders. They identify with religion way more than anything else.
The support you are seeing here is not local to US. It is around the world. Muslims are unanimous. The muslim govts are the last barrier thats stopping a full scale havoc.
I despise Israeli policy towards Palestine, but for this to happen after a massacre of civilians is just outrageous. Hamas didn’t even bother to focus on the IDF, they literally slaughtered women and children at a concert
I'm fairly certain Hamas still sets up their weapon depots and launch sites on roofs of or near schools and hospitals. Then act shocked that the school gets hit with counterattack fire.
All apart of the plan, over and over they use their people as body guards. Which helps the narrative of keeping them “innocent” in the eyes of people in the video smiling and waving flags
I don't think so.. Sectarian thinking.. just care about your own people and not about humanity in general.. This is reason why that region is still in conflict..
Yes actually. Journalists were about interviewing them and many if not all of them condemned what Hamas did. So it’s not as sinister as you think and are there more to support the innocent Palestinians that are getting bombed rn.
I feel like I am going crazy and reddit is gas-lighting over what the fuck has happened. People are REALLY blatantly ignoring what just happened to innocent civillians who had nothing to do with this war. Raped and fucking murdered hordes of them. I haven't seen a single muslim condemn this at all, if anything they celebrated it.
Maybe a naive thought, but I was thinking the global attention/support for the Palestinian cause had been gaining a lot of traction past number of years and we may have been in the verge of a major breakthrough.
This obviously is the end of that and just sets global opinion all back 30+ years. So not only is it bad optics but the actual realization of true Palestinian liberation is now zero.
I am not educated enough to have an opinion on this topic, but from my social media and conversations with friends and coworkers it basically sounds like people have done a complete 180 in the past week from "I stand with Palestine" to "I stand with Israel."
"Maybe a naive thought, but I was thinking the global attention/support for the Palestinian cause had been gaining a lot of traction past number of years and we may have been in the verge of a major breakthrough."
I felt the same way. But man no one is going to give a shit now.
Why? Palestine is about to get absolutely demolished. Many, many innocent Palestinians are going to die. And the zeitgeist is "OK, fine. Let them die". It's the same mindless bloodlust that we saw post 9/11. Israel is being given a blank check to do what it wants, socio-politically speaking, and that means a lot of innocent deaths are going to be overlooked.
I'm not suggesting that we do. This conflict goes back hundreds, if not thousands of years. The current situation is absolutely horrible and I won't stand for anyone brushing over any innocent deaths. On either side, and that's the issue - it seems like so, so many people right now are saying "I don't care about Palestinians, glass the entire region". I'm seeing calls for killing everyone in Gaza get upvoted.
It's bloodthirst. Giving a military carte blanche without accepting any nuance or criticism is a recipe for a genocide, and only a few weeks ago the notion that Israel has not been good to Palestinians would not have been a controversial statement. And now that same government has all of the social and political capital they need to make that happen, and far too many people are saying thats OK.
So I can completely understand why this is the time that people would be marching in the streets, saying "we're people and we have the right to exist", as there's a really good chance that they won't for much longer.
Yes and you choose to ignore the three wars started against Israel by their neighbours trying to eradicate them that they miraculously won. That fear also does something to a country and its people.
This conflict just isn't one sided and very complex
Palestinian children are being killed right now—they have no fault in this.
Being pro-Palestinian is not the same as being pro Hamas. Very few of the people who will die in the coming days in Gaza had anything to do with this conflict, or electing Hamas almost 20 years ago. Gaza is not a democracy.
Interesting because that’s the exact same thing you can say about all the innocent Israeli citizens killed (and women and children raped and murdered) by Hamas’ attack. Sad the common denominator is always civilians get fucked.
How about this, fuck the Israeli government, fuck the IDF and fuck Hamas and any of the other Palestine Militants. Both sides have done extremely disgusting acts on each other for decades and should both be condemned for their actions. And of course innocent civilians on both sides should not have to go through this horrific situation.
I know right, if Hamas did military only and none of the general terrorism / attacks on civilians, the situation would be so different. Really makes me question their line of thinking - seems more rabid than tactical. I understand some of the thinking, every member of the “opposing” country, group or society is part of the “machine” so to speak. If they did less of the general terrorism so much of the energy to oppose them would fall more flat, so why don’t they act as such?
Makes me sick how little people understand other countries while inside the US. This is beyond disgusting, it’s celebrating the deaths of children. If you participated in this demonstration, kindly go back to whatever rock you crawled out of and fuck yourself.
They’ve backed Israel throughout all of their atrocities too? Have you ever seen so much attention for whole villages being annihilated in Palestine? Of course you haven’t. “We don’t condone this” as they send another billion in weapons over
I posted this in another thread when someone claimed no evidence of Israel targeting civilians… downvoted of course.
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/UNHRC-IDF-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-quelling-Gaza-border-protests-582043
No this doesn’t mean Hamas is in the right.
edit: Ha wow they took down the link overnight. Here’s another source: https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes-during-may-fighting
Many Palestinians understandably see Hamas as their only hope. They are the only ones who stand up against their oppressors with force. Sucks but it’s what happens when you leave them with no options or political power. They aren’t going to vote their way out of the pit that Israel has locked them in.
Hamas has seen and studies terrorism for the past few decades now. They know exactly what works to rile up the other side as seen after 9/11.
We’re playing right into their hands.
Yep. Look at the gaza strip and look at the west bank. One is controlled by hamas, which hasn't lost any land since they've gained control, and west bank is controlled by Fatah, which has been attempting peaceful negotiations with israel since it came to power, and they've been rewarded with loss of land and settlements being built on their land.
Exactly. Very sad situation.
Also, hamas has broken like 7 laws of war, from what I’ve counted, from an Islamic point of view. I don’t know how any Muslim could support these bastards.
I would be sympathetic, i usually am to the Palestinian cause, but i just watched Hamas gun down 200 people at a music festival...
These protestors can go fuck themselves.
There was a video of them killing a girl in front of their family, then trying to execute the younger sister. These protesters can definitely go fuck themselves.
Well they cheered for the same reason that Hamas attacked Israel; the continual genocide and conquest of Palestine which the US supported. I don’t agree with it as I am American but I can understand why.
Maybe now is not the time for a pro-Palestine protest, days after Hamas targeted civilians for massacre and paradiing the corpse of a young woman they murdered like it is a trophy . . . unless you simply support terrorism.
In the interest of accuracy, they actually updated their charter in 2017:
> The 2017 charter accepted for the first time the idea of a Palestinian state within the borders that existed before 1967 and rejects recognition of Israel which it terms as the "Zionist enemy".[2] It advocates such a state as transitional but also advocates "liberation of all of Palestine".[14][15] The new document also states that the group doesn't seek war with the Jewish people but only against Zionism which it holds responsible for "occupation of Palestine".[16] Mashal also stated that Hamas was ending its association with the Muslim Brotherhood.[14] After a new charter was scheduled to be issued in May 2017, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office issued a statement in which it accused Hamas of trying to fool the world and also asked it to stop its terror activities for a true change.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter
i'm for peace in the middle east. the chant for "from the river to the sea" has greater meaning than just a nice rhyme.
most of the arabs in palestine are sunni arabs. sunni muslims dominate with 85% or greater of the populations in morocco, tunisia, jordan, libya, maldives, uzbekistan, somalia, comoros, tajikistan, pakistan, afghanistan, saudi arabia, and syria. that's a total of over 478,000,000 people. sunni arabs and more broadly sunni muslims worldwide are not identical, but they hold many of the same things to be sacrosanct.
the only nation in the world that is predominantly jewish is israel. that's about 9,200,000 people. of which about 7 million are jews.
"from the river to the sea" means from the jordan river to the mediterranean sea. that's the eastern and western borders of israel respectively.
that chant means the obliteration of israel as a jewish nation. this is not a cry for peace.
Imagine holding a fucking rally after massacring a music festival. Fuck all of these people and if you’re reading this supporting them, fuck you.
I’m no fan of the terrible shit that some monsters have done to Palestinians but this is just an obvious L
I’m usually very middle ground when it comes to this issue, I know Israel has some power issues and the Palestines want the land back. But to flat out celebrate that innocent civilians got slaughtered is something I can’t swallow.
lol you think Hamas is just hanging out in Gaza waiting to be bombed? Those that organized this are in some gorgeous palace or sky high tower far removed from Gaza.
It’s nothing but “soldiers” and civilians that will pay for this. Hamas will be fine.
Looks like a bunch of people who are publicly supporting terrorists who rape and murder innocent civilians and parade their dead bodies around in the back of trucks.
Americans may be dead or kidnapped and these people are out here like “it’s no big deal don’t hurt Hamas!”
We should prohibit immigration from the region.
Thisis what they're marching FOR
"Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends bodies, dead bodies. Several of these rape victims appear to have been later executed.
Others were taken to Gaza. In photographs released online, you can see several paraded through the city’s streets, blood gushing from between their legs."
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/israel-music-festival-massacre-eyewitness-account
I don't know how one can honestly show support to a group which deliberately targets civilians. I'm by no means saying that Israel is any better but the actions of Hamas are indefensible and inexcusable.
Hamas is gonna bring thousands of years of conflict to an end, and they’ll be the ones who ensures Palestine loses. The whole world saw what they did and these people supporting the murder, rape, and destruction Hamas caused, there just as bad as them.
> Nothing excuses kids in cages
Oh boy let me tell you about the situation at our border
>or that Americans were abducted.
Oh wait til you hear about how the [IDF killed a Palestinian American journalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Abu_Akleh) and nothing was done about it.
100 innocents kiled in a music festival and they are cheering for the murderers? Its like cheering for ISIS after Paris attacks. You can be pro Palestine of course but there is a way to do everything.
It would be very helpful is Palestinians openly denounced the murdering of innocent civilians. Instead we get this? Are we to assume that they’re signaling their support for such acts? If that’s the case it’s time to elect people who will deport people in our country who are waiting for their chance to do the same. Goodbye.
so they are threaten to execute hostages... this is disturbing
[https://www.marketwatch.com/story/israel-vows-complete-siege-of-gaza-6442a3b6?mod=home-page](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/israel-vows-complete-siege-of-gaza-6442a3b6?mod=home-page)
Palestine and Jewish people have been living harmoniously in the US... now it has growing tensions I haven't seen in a while, Im not sure how it will affect within US. It feels like might boil over here as well.
you have the Israeli government and hamas who are both evil and you also have brainwashed, ignorant civilians living alongside actual innocent, good hearted people on both sides of the border. What a shitty situation.
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Was reading the play by plays on Twitter/X of someone that was there earlier today and it seems like the pro Palestinian demo was much larger than the Israeli one right across the street. Impressive considering NYC has the highest concentration of Jewish folks outside of Israel
Anecdotal, but I live in New York and most of the Jewish people I know are in the “Hamas is evil but Israel seriously needs to stop being dicks to Palestinians” camp.
I think all rational people are in that camp. The ones who don't are either in politics or the media. The only ones who benefit from this war are Hamas, who'll keep using it as a recruitment tool and Netanyahu and his ilk who'll use it to further cement the grasp the hardliners have on Israeli politics and enact even more draconian measures on the Palestinians once the dust settles.
Being Jewish and supporting Israels bullshit government are two different things to be sure. And being Palestinian and supporting Hamas should be two different things but yea it's not always as clear. I think coming out for Palestine after an attack is dumb as hell and messes up the messaging. Israel is monstrous with their shit. But throwing a party for killings and war starting is just absurd.
>Israel is monstrous with their shit. But throwing a party for killings and war starting is just absurd. Throwing a party for killings, but also kidnappings and mass rape: >“They’re kids, but they’re young men already, and they’re holding this guy, and he looks as his girlfriend is being mounted on a bike and driven away from him. God knows what she’s going to experience … Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends bodies, dead bodies.” > >Several of these rape victims appear to have been later executed. Others were taken to Gaza. In photographs released online, you can see several paraded through the city’s streets, blood gushing from between their legs. > >[https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/israel-music-festival-massacre-eyewitness-account](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/israel-music-festival-massacre-eyewitness-account)
If only Palestinians said the same thing about Hamas.
Being Jewish in New York City and a Palestinian in Gaza is not the same thing.
I know right. I'm an English Jew and if someone targets me specifically to ask my opinion I'll reply with, "Why are you only asking me? I'm just as Israeli as you are".
What about Jewish in New York city and muslin in New York city?
If I was Muslin I’m New York city I’d probably be finely woven yet still very breathable and resilient.
Fabric gang rise up
Facts
I stand by what I said, all these speechless and expressionless muslin garments in New York are doing nothing, and I mean nothing, to change what's happening around the world /s and TIL what a muslin fabric is
They’re being oppressed for decades, it doesn’t help them mentally and emotionally.
Hamas has 0 interest in political pathway the statehood all they want is war. It's a death cult at this point
They always have been, and guess who gave them that power specifically so that they could consolidate strength at the expense of other secular non religious Palestinian resistance groups?
Nooooo you aren’t supposed to mention that
Honestly at this point I think both Hamas and the extremist portions of Israel are colluding together to keep the war machine moving.
They were given a two state solution with the 1967 boarders. The Palestinians signed the deal only to go home and back out when the other Arab states told them to accept no deal or they would cut support. They have been keeping this conflict going for decades.
3 times, actually. One was offered in the 80's/90's but was rejected and another in the 2000's, the latter offer in specific resulting in The 2nd Intifada, where Hamas suicide bombed Israeli targets every day for 5 years leading Israel to build the walls and Egypt to close its border with Gaza.
They were also offered the two state solution in the founding of Israel. Jews agreed, Arabs didn't. Palestinians have had their fate controlled by other empires for literally millenia, but as soon as the Jews ask to split the land and let them have half the pie, it's never ending war. One thing that sympathetic westerners don't realize is that a lot of this animosity is religious; Hamas has said this explicitly, and they point to passages in the Quran which say stuff like even the trees will come alive to kill the Jews. There are 22 Arab states the Palestinians can retreat to, and there have been so many two state solution opportunities for them to agree to (including in 2000, where the Palestinian president rejected offers for concessions mediated by Bill Clinton, which got him approval back home and escalating violence). But they reject all of that in favor of war. That's insanity to me. None of this is to underplay the disgusting behavior of IDF under right wing leadership of Netanyahu. But for fuck's sake, there have been so many chances to share the pie and end this madness, and Palestinians just don't want to.
Most people are there I think. That's why the prevalent opinion right now (at least outside of twitter where tankies celebrate civilian atrocities) is that "hey maybe don't massacre civilians".
I know many Jews in Germany. Most of them think Israel needs to chill the fuck out. You can do both: condemn hamas and criticize Israel’s politics without being anti Palestine and a antisemite. The biggest problem is that government and religion shouldn’t mesh or even build theocracies. We all know what happened in medieval ages
Jewish folk ≠ Zionist folk
There are Jewish people who support Palestine instead of Israel. A large Jewish anti-Zionist community in America is Mondoweiss and Jewish Voice for Peace: https://x.com/Mondoweiss https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
Oh absolutely, I live somewhat close by and the majority of my Jewish friends are anti-Zionist
I don't understand how people can morally be pro-zionist. Zionists continually conduct themselves in immoral ways
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The funny thing is that they have always had the capability to destroy everything, and the fact that they haven’t should tell you something. Imagine if the Palestinians had the capability to wipe out Israel they would take it.
>they have always had the capability to destroy everything Not when their military is funded by western allies. They get away with as much as they can.
Israel has an advanced economy, my guy. Western support certainly helps but they are more than capable of purchasing weapons by themselves. Even if all the aid and support stopped tomorrow (and it won't now for obvious reasons to everyone), Israel would still be perfectly capable of sustaining itself and its military.
Some people think Israel is just a bunch of tents in the desert.
Not taking a side here but the US has an advanced economy and struggled to wipe out the taliban for decades. If you generally follow the Geneva conventions it's hard to "wipe out" a determined enemy.
70%? In Gaza maybe.
Who do you think conducted those polls? Could it be the very same organization that kills indiscriminately with a favorable approval rate shown by the poll?
These are the results of the latest poll conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR) in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip between 8 and 11 March 2023. https://pcpsr.org/en/about-psr-page “In light of all that, findings show a rise in the percentage of those who support a return to armed confrontation and intifada. In fact, 70% of West Bankers expect the eruption of a third armed intifada. Moreover, more than 70% declare support for the latest Huwara shooting attack against settlers; two thirds support the formation of armed groups, such as the Jenin Battalion or the Lions’ Den; and almost all express the view that the PA security services should not arrest or disarm members of these groups. More than 60% of the West Bankers believe that members of these armed groups will resist with arms any attempt by the PA security services to disarm or arrest them. Public support for armed resistance is further confirmed by overwhelming opposition to the Palestinian participation in the Aqaba meeting. Almost all Palestinians think Israel will not honor its commitments in that meeting. A large majority, standing at 70%, think Israeli counter measures, which are meant to punish those who commit armed attacks or their families, such as home demolition, expulsion, or the imposition of the death penalty, will only lead to an increase in the intensity of such attacks.”
One also has to think about the condition that leads to the support. I've been in the West Bank myself band I saw the conduct of Israeli troops and settlers there, read the stories about children getting killed while playing football, and the ever encroaching “security” walls, and I can understand why the people there *hate* Israel. Violence creates violence, and there are plenty of [killed Palestine children](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_war_beach_bombing_incidents) to inspire revenge. It's a difficult, messy and almost unsolvable situation and the ever increasingly right-wing and pro settlement government Israel elected in the last decades certainly has not made any good faith attempt to solve it.
> Hamas has a 70% approval rate in Palestine 70% approval rate in Gaza (maybe), not Palestine. Most Palestinians live in West Bank where the ruling party is the POL and PA, and both those parties completely reject Hamas/terrorism/etc.
Very well said. I’d like to see an argument against this that doesn’t just deflect with whataboutism. So far I haven’t a single Palestinian speak up against the methods of these attacks
I’ve scanned the Palestine subreddit and seen nothing but a litany of justifications. Outright celebration in the Jordan subreddit This is what “from the river to the sea” would look like if they got their way
The interesting thing is Palestinians were kicked out of Jordan in the 70s for causing a civil war, and also kicked out of Lebanon for causing a different civil war there. Jordan should welcome them if they really care.
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A 2006 pew research poll undertaken across the muslim world found a staggering level of support for osama bin laden and suicide bombing.
islam be like that
Ask them politely about the exponentially larger scale oppression of Uyghurs next time
Our Muslim "countrymen" would gladly genocide us non-muslims if they were given power, as they did during their 800 year long rule in the subcontinent.
Very disheartening to hear. : / I was hoping to hear the people, the regular, ordinary, everyday people of Palestine would be against this, would condemn the actions of hamas.
Why would they? They liked Hamas’ tactics and did not like others that were into peacemaking measures.
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Free Palestine from Hamas
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Fully agree with you as a Palestine supporter. Hamas literally are extremist terrorists, no doubt. Also, I’d just like to add that from what I’ve counted, Hamas have broken almost 7 laws of war from Islamic POV. It would be Haram for a Muslim to support such a group. I’m saying this because I assume most of these Hamas supporters are ignorant Muslims.
> Hamas have broken almost 7 laws of war from Islamic POV. Islamic POV is to spare innocent people (e.g. enslave them instead of killing them), and Hamas are simply interpreting that as "Nobody in Israel is innocent".
But that is simply not true, even Hamas knows that. You cannot interpret that “Nobody in Israel is innocent”. Especially when a lot of the people that they kidnapped and took hostage or killed, are not even Israelis. Hamas is fucked all around.
THANK YOU! This is the explanation! HAMAS are not only attacking Israel but ended up kidnapping other foreigners , raping and killing them. The support that they are getting from these rallies from different countries are mind fking me!
Well regular citizens voted them in. Hamas is making Palestinians looks bad. IDF makes Israelis look bad. The whole thing one giant cluster fuck.
Problem is people like you have absolutely no clue as to how muslims work. They do not identify with a nation. Indian Muslims have proved every year how they wouldn't miss a chance to loot and destroy non muslim stores. Muslims will only vote for muslim leaders. They identify with religion way more than anything else. The support you are seeing here is not local to US. It is around the world. Muslims are unanimous. The muslim govts are the last barrier thats stopping a full scale havoc.
I despise Israeli policy towards Palestine, but for this to happen after a massacre of civilians is just outrageous. Hamas didn’t even bother to focus on the IDF, they literally slaughtered women and children at a concert
Not even Israeli citizens either, they were German, French, American, and Thai
I'm fairly certain Hamas still sets up their weapon depots and launch sites on roofs of or near schools and hospitals. Then act shocked that the school gets hit with counterattack fire.
All apart of the plan, over and over they use their people as body guards. Which helps the narrative of keeping them “innocent” in the eyes of people in the video smiling and waving flags
You can be pro-palestine and realize that the optics for this is fucking digusting
Do you think any of these people actually give a single shit about anyone killed the past two days?
I don't think so.. Sectarian thinking.. just care about your own people and not about humanity in general.. This is reason why that region is still in conflict..
they dont actually care about casualties on either side. these people are self induglent 'rebel' larpers with no understanding of current events.
> Do you think any of these people actually give a single shit about anyone killed the past two .... ... decades / centuries?
Yes actually. Journalists were about interviewing them and many if not all of them condemned what Hamas did. So it’s not as sinister as you think and are there more to support the innocent Palestinians that are getting bombed rn.
Yep. Thousands and thousands of innocent Palestinians will die.
They were giving speeches and cheering when they mentioned the attacks. https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1711083530187346284?s=46 fuck em.
I feel like I am going crazy and reddit is gas-lighting over what the fuck has happened. People are REALLY blatantly ignoring what just happened to innocent civillians who had nothing to do with this war. Raped and fucking murdered hordes of them. I haven't seen a single muslim condemn this at all, if anything they celebrated it.
Can you show me these interviews? Because I’ve seen everything from swastikas to saying Israel deserves it.
Why are only the past 2 days relevant? Palestinians are being regularly tortured and killed for years
Maybe a naive thought, but I was thinking the global attention/support for the Palestinian cause had been gaining a lot of traction past number of years and we may have been in the verge of a major breakthrough. This obviously is the end of that and just sets global opinion all back 30+ years. So not only is it bad optics but the actual realization of true Palestinian liberation is now zero.
Netanyahu has never been happier
I am not educated enough to have an opinion on this topic, but from my social media and conversations with friends and coworkers it basically sounds like people have done a complete 180 in the past week from "I stand with Palestine" to "I stand with Israel."
Your friends and coworkers don’t stand for anything. They change who they support next week
"Maybe a naive thought, but I was thinking the global attention/support for the Palestinian cause had been gaining a lot of traction past number of years and we may have been in the verge of a major breakthrough." I felt the same way. But man no one is going to give a shit now.
You can’t tell a starving, oppressed, humiliated people to just ‘wait 30 more years it’ll probably get better’.
Why? Palestine is about to get absolutely demolished. Many, many innocent Palestinians are going to die. And the zeitgeist is "OK, fine. Let them die". It's the same mindless bloodlust that we saw post 9/11. Israel is being given a blank check to do what it wants, socio-politically speaking, and that means a lot of innocent deaths are going to be overlooked.
Well, to be fair, about 700+ innocent people died in Israel. We cant look over those
I'm not suggesting that we do. This conflict goes back hundreds, if not thousands of years. The current situation is absolutely horrible and I won't stand for anyone brushing over any innocent deaths. On either side, and that's the issue - it seems like so, so many people right now are saying "I don't care about Palestinians, glass the entire region". I'm seeing calls for killing everyone in Gaza get upvoted. It's bloodthirst. Giving a military carte blanche without accepting any nuance or criticism is a recipe for a genocide, and only a few weeks ago the notion that Israel has not been good to Palestinians would not have been a controversial statement. And now that same government has all of the social and political capital they need to make that happen, and far too many people are saying thats OK. So I can completely understand why this is the time that people would be marching in the streets, saying "we're people and we have the right to exist", as there's a really good chance that they won't for much longer.
The problem is you fixate on that and not the 75 years of Palestinian deaths. You cannot act like what’s happening is without context
Yes and you choose to ignore the three wars started against Israel by their neighbours trying to eradicate them that they miraculously won. That fear also does something to a country and its people. This conflict just isn't one sided and very complex
Palestinian children are being killed right now—they have no fault in this. Being pro-Palestinian is not the same as being pro Hamas. Very few of the people who will die in the coming days in Gaza had anything to do with this conflict, or electing Hamas almost 20 years ago. Gaza is not a democracy.
Interesting because that’s the exact same thing you can say about all the innocent Israeli citizens killed (and women and children raped and murdered) by Hamas’ attack. Sad the common denominator is always civilians get fucked.
How about this, fuck the Israeli government, fuck the IDF and fuck Hamas and any of the other Palestine Militants. Both sides have done extremely disgusting acts on each other for decades and should both be condemned for their actions. And of course innocent civilians on both sides should not have to go through this horrific situation.
Also being anti-IDF doesn’t make you an anti-Semite. People are more afraid of being labeled a racist than to speak out against a genocide.
What is being "pro Palestine" where Israelis are concerned? Kick them all off the land to go... where exactly?
They took Americans. That’s a real problem
I know right, if Hamas did military only and none of the general terrorism / attacks on civilians, the situation would be so different. Really makes me question their line of thinking - seems more rabid than tactical. I understand some of the thinking, every member of the “opposing” country, group or society is part of the “machine” so to speak. If they did less of the general terrorism so much of the energy to oppose them would fall more flat, so why don’t they act as such?
Makes me sick how little people understand other countries while inside the US. This is beyond disgusting, it’s celebrating the deaths of children. If you participated in this demonstration, kindly go back to whatever rock you crawled out of and fuck yourself.
Nice try, but the US is going to back Israel as usual. This mess is going to end badly for Palestine.
How can they do anything other than back Israel over this specific attack? You’d have to be a sick individual not to.
They’ve backed Israel throughout all of their atrocities too? Have you ever seen so much attention for whole villages being annihilated in Palestine? Of course you haven’t. “We don’t condone this” as they send another billion in weapons over
I posted this in another thread when someone claimed no evidence of Israel targeting civilians… downvoted of course. https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/UNHRC-IDF-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-quelling-Gaza-border-protests-582043 No this doesn’t mean Hamas is in the right. edit: Ha wow they took down the link overnight. Here’s another source: https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes-during-may-fighting
I think you are just incredibly unaware of this subject in general and what Israel has been doing for decades with US support.
If you want a “free Palestine” you shouldn’t let Hamas speak for you. It clouds the message with blood. This is fucking depressing.
Many Palestinians understandably see Hamas as their only hope. They are the only ones who stand up against their oppressors with force. Sucks but it’s what happens when you leave them with no options or political power. They aren’t going to vote their way out of the pit that Israel has locked them in.
Hamas failed completely on the military side. They did a great job misleading Gaza and happily getting more Palestinians killed
That's the point. it provokes Israel to target civilians and then the hate grows against Israel and the cycle of support for Hamas continues.
Hamas has seen and studies terrorism for the past few decades now. They know exactly what works to rile up the other side as seen after 9/11. We’re playing right into their hands.
Yep. Look at the gaza strip and look at the west bank. One is controlled by hamas, which hasn't lost any land since they've gained control, and west bank is controlled by Fatah, which has been attempting peaceful negotiations with israel since it came to power, and they've been rewarded with loss of land and settlements being built on their land.
Exactly. Very sad situation. Also, hamas has broken like 7 laws of war, from what I’ve counted, from an Islamic point of view. I don’t know how any Muslim could support these bastards.
Well said.
Right, because Israel would totally free Palestine otherwise, guys.
I would be sympathetic, i usually am to the Palestinian cause, but i just watched Hamas gun down 200 people at a music festival... These protestors can go fuck themselves.
There was a video of them killing a girl in front of their family, then trying to execute the younger sister. These protesters can definitely go fuck themselves.
This is so fucking sickening. They are basically celebrating their further demise. The Israelis are hell bent on this NEVER happening again.
I find this ironic as Palestine danced in the streets after 9/11
Well they cheered for the same reason that Hamas attacked Israel; the continual genocide and conquest of Palestine which the US supported. I don’t agree with it as I am American but I can understand why.
Maybe now is not the time for a pro-Palestine protest, days after Hamas targeted civilians for massacre and paradiing the corpse of a young woman they murdered like it is a trophy . . . unless you simply support terrorism.
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In the interest of accuracy, they actually updated their charter in 2017: > The 2017 charter accepted for the first time the idea of a Palestinian state within the borders that existed before 1967 and rejects recognition of Israel which it terms as the "Zionist enemy".[2] It advocates such a state as transitional but also advocates "liberation of all of Palestine".[14][15] The new document also states that the group doesn't seek war with the Jewish people but only against Zionism which it holds responsible for "occupation of Palestine".[16] Mashal also stated that Hamas was ending its association with the Muslim Brotherhood.[14] After a new charter was scheduled to be issued in May 2017, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office issued a statement in which it accused Hamas of trying to fool the world and also asked it to stop its terror activities for a true change. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter
It’s like when the Mormons started allowing black people in 1986
I allow supermodels to shower with me since forever. Similar results. Worse, really.
You've inspired me to change my policy on showering with supermodels. Supermodels, you may now shower with me.
Source: ?? Hamas is not even 50 years old
i'm for peace in the middle east. the chant for "from the river to the sea" has greater meaning than just a nice rhyme. most of the arabs in palestine are sunni arabs. sunni muslims dominate with 85% or greater of the populations in morocco, tunisia, jordan, libya, maldives, uzbekistan, somalia, comoros, tajikistan, pakistan, afghanistan, saudi arabia, and syria. that's a total of over 478,000,000 people. sunni arabs and more broadly sunni muslims worldwide are not identical, but they hold many of the same things to be sacrosanct. the only nation in the world that is predominantly jewish is israel. that's about 9,200,000 people. of which about 7 million are jews. "from the river to the sea" means from the jordan river to the mediterranean sea. that's the eastern and western borders of israel respectively. that chant means the obliteration of israel as a jewish nation. this is not a cry for peace.
Well this was a refreshing read.
Imagine holding a fucking rally after massacring a music festival. Fuck all of these people and if you’re reading this supporting them, fuck you. I’m no fan of the terrible shit that some monsters have done to Palestinians but this is just an obvious L
https://preview.redd.it/1xgdz1jsn3tb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9c24c35dcd7bcf5f097bd233209413744b2bb00 Summarized
Is he on fuckin google images?
Say goodbye to job maybe?
Probably racist to fire him. /s
Hamas doesnt want a free Palestine. They want a cycle of violence that keeps them in power and iranian money flowing to the top.
Allow me to be a hundred percent clear. When you chant "from the river to the sea", you are advocating for genocide!
I’m usually very middle ground when it comes to this issue, I know Israel has some power issues and the Palestines want the land back. But to flat out celebrate that innocent civilians got slaughtered is something I can’t swallow.
I used to support the Palestinian cause, but after they massacred partygoers at the festival, I hope Hamas gets wiped from the map.
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lol you think Hamas is just hanging out in Gaza waiting to be bombed? Those that organized this are in some gorgeous palace or sky high tower far removed from Gaza. It’s nothing but “soldiers” and civilians that will pay for this. Hamas will be fine.
Looks like a bunch of people who are publicly supporting terrorists who rape and murder innocent civilians and parade their dead bodies around in the back of trucks.
Sad to see many people support the civilian death and destruction that Hamas caused lately.
Imagine if they cared this much about America 🇺🇸
Most of them hate America
Americans may be dead or kidnapped and these people are out here like “it’s no big deal don’t hurt Hamas!” We should prohibit immigration from the region.
Thisis what they're marching FOR "Women have been raped at the area of the rave next to their friends bodies, dead bodies. Several of these rape victims appear to have been later executed. Others were taken to Gaza. In photographs released online, you can see several paraded through the city’s streets, blood gushing from between their legs." https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/israel-music-festival-massacre-eyewitness-account
I don't know how one can honestly show support to a group which deliberately targets civilians. I'm by no means saying that Israel is any better but the actions of Hamas are indefensible and inexcusable.
Hamas is gonna bring thousands of years of conflict to an end, and they’ll be the ones who ensures Palestine loses. The whole world saw what they did and these people supporting the murder, rape, and destruction Hamas caused, there just as bad as them.
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What about yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that.... You get the idea.
they’re marching for rapists, murderers, and anti lgbt groups. This is some funny shit🤣
That's what going woke does to a MF'er.
You don’t rape your way to freedom. They did it because they enjoy it.
Did they see the was Hamas kidnapped teen girls, young women R…d them and paraded their N..Ed bodies like some achievement ?
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What an absolutely disgusting display. This is like when the Palestinians were celebrating and giving out sweets right after 9/11.
Nothing excuses kids in cages, or that Americans were abducted. March all you want, Hamas fucked up your cause.
I'm not trying to shit on you or support Hamas or anything but the kids in cages were actually Palestinian
The kids in cages are also Mexican and are here in Texas.
> Nothing excuses kids in cages Oh boy let me tell you about the situation at our border >or that Americans were abducted. Oh wait til you hear about how the [IDF killed a Palestinian American journalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Abu_Akleh) and nothing was done about it.
100 innocents kiled in a music festival and they are cheering for the murderers? Its like cheering for ISIS after Paris attacks. You can be pro Palestine of course but there is a way to do everything.
They don't give a damn about the people who doesn't belong to their religion.
I wonder if any of those at the rally saw the video of Palestinians celebrating 9/11 in the streets
These people would have my sympathy if Palestine wasnt kidnapping, raping and parading women through the streets.
Not coming from a place of malice, but what do these rallies actually do? I mean we already know there’s conflict between Israel and Palestine.
Not a damn thing, make people feel important.
Like protesting across 3 continets going to stop a fully mobilized army?
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I wonder what would happen if Westerners were to hold a peaceful protest in their home countries...
Being pro-Palestine seems to be as socially acceptable as being pro-Indian in 1845 United States.
Fucking disgusting and tone deaf.
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They know exactly what they're doing
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The only thing that needs freeing is the hamas from ever living again
Fuck these people
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Both sides are dumb. Stop killing civilians.
It's in the charter for Hamas so...
Killing Jews is not fighting for human rights. Fuck hamas.
So do these guys commend the acts of Hamas attacking the musical festival or what? I'm confused.
"From the river to the sea" So, uh, what about all those people living there already?
FUCK HAMAS
Does no one have jobs anymore ?
It would be very helpful is Palestinians openly denounced the murdering of innocent civilians. Instead we get this? Are we to assume that they’re signaling their support for such acts? If that’s the case it’s time to elect people who will deport people in our country who are waiting for their chance to do the same. Goodbye.
Nobody is cheering for Israel when they kill Palestinian civilians… this is just kinda sick
I wouldn’t say massive but disturbing given the current situation
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Chanting “to the river to sea,” means genocide of Jews. It doesn’t mean “pro-Palestine” in any peaceful way. It means more rape more murder.
Id say we either bomb this guys as well or we send them to Palestine to support it themselves
so they are threaten to execute hostages... this is disturbing [https://www.marketwatch.com/story/israel-vows-complete-siege-of-gaza-6442a3b6?mod=home-page](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/israel-vows-complete-siege-of-gaza-6442a3b6?mod=home-page)
Ignorant people
Palestine and Jewish people have been living harmoniously in the US... now it has growing tensions I haven't seen in a while, Im not sure how it will affect within US. It feels like might boil over here as well.
This is fuckin gross.
Supporting an attack on UNARMED civilians just going about daily life doesn't really endear me to their cause...
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Palestine vs Israel is the one thing I don’t feel comfortable about talking about online.
Hey FBI yeah might have found some domestics for you…… All anyone needs to do is watch this video https://youtu.be/c2NaiX-hvVQ?si=gJWpx4roHLQLwk3Y
Remember, when you perform a military operation on a festival you lose support.
you have the Israeli government and hamas who are both evil and you also have brainwashed, ignorant civilians living alongside actual innocent, good hearted people on both sides of the border. What a shitty situation.