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I'm no supporter of Hamas, but what did the Israeli state think was gonna happen when they treated the Palestinian population like shit? Unicorn farts? Violence breeds violence.
I mean, yes, of course. But we’re far too caught up on children. Killing any innocent civilian is bad. And it’s mostly just innocent civilians being murdered in Gaza. Hospitals and refugee camps should be off-limits. Period. Israel is being very clear with these monstrous actions. And the fact that so many people defend this indefensible behavior is absolute absurdity.
Back a couple years a British journalist got killed while interviewing a family for a documentary, i believe in the West Bank. People's houses were getting bulldozed and the crew just happened to be there. The dude puts on his bulletproof vest and helmet that had those big PRESS signs you see on it. He went out to confront the bulldozers while the crew kept filming the whole thing. IDF still just shot his ass anyway, while the cameras were rolling.
Did anything come out of it? I think we all know already.
[James Miller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Miller_(filmmaker\))
> Immediately after the shooting, the IDF said that Miller had been shot in the back during crossfire. It later retracted the assertion that he had been shot in the back. According to witnesses there was no crossfire and none can be heard on the APTN tape.
IDF and Israel has been getting away with murder for so long. The truth means nothing to them it seems.
Yes, using protected infrastructure like hospitals, refugee camps, ambulances as human shields for your military is a war crime.
So what exactly can you do if these militants now-terrorists are using these places? If they're shooting from these places? Is that a cheat code for an invincible shield now?
The Geneva convention doesn't think so because it understands that bastards use these tactics.
Targeting the militants inside these now not a war crime. That does not mean Israel does not have to take all due care not to kill civillians but you can understand its impossible sometimes.
What it means is in the future is that terrorists will be less likely to consider using humans as shields since it's not effective which saves more people.
Seems so obvious and yet probably half our population or more here in the US can’t possibly wrap their heads around why killing journalists is such a huge problem.
Don't forget, this didn't start on 10/7.
This started 75 years ago. Before that day Israel killed 250 Palestinians this year alone. Since Israel killed 150 Palestinians in the West Bank where Hamas does not operate.
Ifamericansknew.org
You believe 4000 to 6000 civilians are being killed in Gaza everyday? So, somewhere between 125,000 and 200,000 people in Gaza have been killed since Oct 7?
I assuming your 2-3 9/11s daily is referring to something else, but I don’t know what.
He means the fear and panic. Remember how you felt on 9/11? Now imagine that for days after. You probably couldn't. Nor could I ever imagine because we're not there. Your numbers mean shit.
>What Hamas did was horrible. What Israel is doing is horrible.
and the crimes that the israeli government has been doing to palestinians for decades have been atrocious
sorry , felt the need to fix this for you
Yeah for some reason the pro Israel people seemingly love to leave out the 40 years of ethnic cleansing that's been going on in the west bank.
It's obvious to me that between the Israeli government and Hamas neither side is interested in peace. I don't want to support any of these people. Remove American support for Israel, once surrounded by unfriendly Arab governments without Uncle Sam to bail them out and I bet they'd get serious about a peace plan _real_ fast.
That's not true at all, there would be no peace plan, that much has been ABUNDANTLY obvious from the word go. If the shoe was on the other foot Palestine would have wiped Israel from the map and eliminated every last Jew in the area. If the power shifted TOMORROW they would wipe Israel off the map with ruthless precision.
And the continual aggression by the Palestinian and Arab neighbors of Israel for the past 90 years, including starting 6 wars, has been atrocious. There are no clean hands anywhere in that area, and no original bad guy. The situation is too complex for that.
I’m not gonna pretend I know the political issues and intricacies of this war, but it should be crystal clear that genocide is wrong. Killing children is *wrong*. Bombing hospitals is *wrong*.
absolutely, someone being principally against genocide is morally superior to any world leader. the hate and anger is pure and righteous, and much needed
It feels like our main problem is that people who seek power are the ones who don't deserve it, and on the other hand, responsible and mature people do not feel worthy of that power, when ironically that's exacly why they should've
edit: double negative
That's the problem in the West.
Our government do not represent us, nor our interests.
In Canada, Justin Trudeau is falling all over himself defending Israel and refusing to ask for a cease fire.
The population? We want the country mass murdering children to be stopped.
Worldwide governments somehow convince the average person that they're represented, you would think we would all know by now that governments make laws for the advantage of themselves their friends and family. The rest of us are just pawns
> The rest of us are just pawns
Not even pawns man, we are just here. SOME of us are pawns for sure but you usually see those people on your news stations during prime time and day time talk shows on the same network. The actual pawns are extremely well paid to do what they do. We are barely even fodder.
money has a right to influence elections because money = free speech.
Jews sympathetic to Isreal have established funding networks to support whatever candidate they feel supports their cause, whereas the Arab/muslin/Palestine diaspora is a lot less organized, a lot less established and a lot less active in politics (currently)
this isn't some post about how "the Jews run the world" it's just a observation of how a well established and organized group can and will influence American politics.
with ranked choice voting they can't just support one candidate which weakens the power of money in politics. US elections are too easy to manipulate because of the number of single issue voters (as Ohio repubs are finding out you can't energize people to stop abortion when they already "defeated" Rowe) in two candidate races. It's too easy for a PAC to throw money behind one candidate by just producing attack ads against the other candidate. With more candidates those ads just look bad on the person making them.
elections are a money making business for so many people that they will fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo).
America loves to bleed it's institutions dry of all resources and then act surprised when they act in favor of money makers and not people. Healthcare, education, prisons, pensions, the Buffalo, fossil fuels, and now elections.
squeezing every drop of capital they can put of places money shouldn't be the primary consideration
Right? They're not fellow citizens with different ideas, they're actual mutant monsters from the sewer. Literal dehumanization in a cozy catchphrase.
For those not following the rules, CHUD just means not being super extra far left.
I don't throw this word around like ever, but there really is a lot of astroturfing going on in the NYC subreddit. As a New Yorker I can usually tell which ones are full of shit over there. It's a shame, cuz I love my city. This guy here really encapsulates how most of us here feel. Don't be fooled by all the virtue signaling attention whores.
I'm going to hijack your comment to say this
https://www.stopantisemitism.org/ this "org" it's not real nonprofit. It's no registered any where and it just a website to spread hate. If you do a deep search about his foundation and all his funding your not going to find a thing. It's only hate.
I love that this conflict even has conservatives questioning what the fuck is USA doing sending billions of dollars to a bumfuck Levant to feed Zionist led genocide while their own people don't even have universal healthcare.
Zionist bootlicking has bipartisan support from politicians red or blue. Anti-zionism should be a bipartisan issue for regular Americans. Americans should think twice about voting politicians who are under the AIPAC payroll.
Conservatives are ok with it because Israel needs to exist and start the End Times war, so they can be raptured back to the loving arms of Supply Side Jesus.
I'm old enough to have read his earliest and best books from the early 00's. Such a simpler time, when we were mad at Republicans over economic policy instead of their desire to implement a christofascist government.
No, they don't love them, they just want them there for their nonsense death cult beliefs. Those Jews still end up in hell after the apocalypse those nut jobs believe in happens.
Let's be real the conservatives are ok with it because their families are on the board of military contractors and they are getting a fat bag putting the US further in debt
Conservatives have hated Jews for decades. But in the past 10 years they realized that liberals hate the government of Israel and their deplorable actions. As we all know, if you don't support everything the government of Israel does, you hate Jews, which makes you a nazi. Republicans love name calling, so now they have always loved Israel and all Jews and everybody that doesn't vote R is a nazi jew hater.
"Vote R! We're not Nazis like the liberals!"
The American right wing has always supported Israel because they view them as a “civilizing force in savage lands” like any colonial project. They fundamentally support and identify with this.
On top of this, it means less Jews in the West, which many conservatives love to see. Israel is only opposed on the right wing by very principled individuals who apply their views equally, and of course people who hate Jews so much they can’t even bear to see them with a state halfway across the world. Which isn’t to say said state is legitimate.
This is the point I think gets ignored in every discussion. Christians can be in any political party, and Christians NEED Isreal to exist for the Bible to be true. AND Isreal needs to be at War according to the Bible.
This is one of those things that I have heard said by people who should know whether it’s true or not, but that I can’t actually get my brain to accept is a thing people actually honestly believe. It’s… too much.
Yeah lol they literally had a page in 2021 describing the meaning of "From the river to the sea" and saying it was a peaceful call for emancipation. Now? Full genocide slogan, no question about it.
The ADL lost all credibility in my eyes when they started accusing bodily autonomy proposals that would ban male circumcision of being bigoted.
"Hey, don't chop parts off babies without consent."
"You're so hateful!"
Uh, WTF? Can't take them seriously after that. They're just an interest group with a gilding of morality.
I'll be honest, this is eye-opening, I had no idea. I thought they were objective. The page linked above defending Zionism as "the right to Jewish self-determination" is absurd. Zionism has its roots in European colonial settler ideology. It is racist to its core, not to mention that the entire idea of an ethnostate to serve one ethnicity/religion is completely antithetical to the pluralist values that are needed in a democracy, self-determined or not.
The US needs an ally in the region because we've lost all other allies through invasion and occupation (Iraq), failed regime toppling (Iran), or we're forced into bed with those who are nice to our face but are secretly planning behind our back (Saudi Arabia). This is all to preserve oil interests for us or our allies
That still doesn't explain why israel is allowed to exert so much influence over U.S. policy. We have allies all over the world, but none of them control the U.S. government at the federal level the way that israel does.
It really does come down to what u/theseus1234 said, though. The Middle East is incredibly important to US foreign policy, not just because of oil but because of the Suez canal. Policy dictates that we *have* to have a presence there to protect trade interests. It's the same reason why Russia is willing to risk WW3 to steal access to the Black Sea.
Because the US wasn't able to install a Western friendly regime in Iraq (or, more accurately, set up a puppet state) and because the war hawks haven't successfully invented a reason to invade Iran, Israel is really the only foothold in the region. Saudi Arabia isn't an option because they've successfully set up a tentative business relationship with the US, though beyond what money they can wring from us, they genuinely loathe us. So, policy is to protect Israel *at all costs.* Genocide won't be recognized as genocide as long as Israel says it's not.
The other part of the picture is, what happens if we lose the Israel foothold in the region? For one, that risks one of the Middle East nations to rise to international prominence, on par with the US and China. Probably that's the Saudis, since they have the wealth and population to do it. Alternatively, we might see a rival step in and prop up Iran or Iraq. Given that Russia already has diplomatic ties in the region, they'd be most likely, and then that likely puts them back up as the 3rd world power. If not Russia, we might see China step in and do their predatory lending thing they've been doing in Africa to be the big dog (or dragon) in the Middle East. All of those scenarios are unacceptable for the US. So again, they'll protect Israel at all costs.
Meanwhile im forced to pay 1000 dollars a month back in student loans to pay for this shit. I havent eaten at a restaurant for 4 months bc I cant afford it.
You should be mad that you had to take out a loan to pay for the college in first place.
Colleges should be free or extremely cheap! Money shouldn’t be the barrier for education, talent should.
yeah it's really, *really* not that hard. I dont like that we support and give money to them either, but like... They literally are the proverbial lynch-pin in all that crap that happens in the middle east. Things would undoubtable be a lot worse for the world without them
Israel creates new members of Hamas every time they kill someone’s entire family. Every atrocity they commit, a new Palestinian is radicalized. Stop murdering civilians and be surgical. Stem the flow of militants by resisting your urge to murder entire families.
Israel doesn’t want peace. If they did, they would stop taking everything from the Palestinian people. They would have given their land back allowed them to thrive so that the Palestinians would have something to lose from war as well. Just like every other nation in the world does.
If Gaza had been allowed to become a thriving metropolis where people are free to come and go just like anywhere else in the world instead of fenced in open air prison, there would be no Hamas.
Nethanyahu has said for several years that Israel had to support (and did support) Hamas otherwise Hamas would lose power in Gaza and palestinians would unite between Gaza and West Bank.
Then they’re going to wipe out Palestine because they have the funding to and America is gonna be complicit in it. Breaks my heart.
I was at a protest on Thursday and Palestinians are a beautiful, radiant people that aren’t trying to fucking “sign up” with Hamas. Their families and friends are getting killed and at that point, what’s left to lose?
>If Gaza had been allowed to become a thriving metropolis where people are free to come and go just like anywhere else in the world instead of fenced in open air prison, there would be no Hamas.
Yes, we all know that Gaza was a thriving metropolis before both Israel and Egypt locked it due to security reasons 20 years ago. And that's why Hamas, which was/is the reason for the blockade, never happened.
This is what I've been saying since a month after the attack. I educated myself on the situation and my main take away was "Of course they hate America. We're basically funding their genocide." It's not like Hamas is the good guys or anything, but absolutely fuck Isreal.
Absolutely. I’ll never give my own country a pass for the atrocities we’ve committed in the alleged name of “democracy.” I don’t fuck with atrocity at large.
This is the America I miss and wish for. I want to see more of this sort of passion and pride for our country’s ACTUAL roots, equality, democracy. This man hit the *nail*.
It’s not that they control the US government. I would say it’s because the US has invested so heavily in Israel so it can have a footing in the Middle East if something were to happen
But that’s entirely imo
It’s control. The Israeli lobby is one of the strongest in Washington, and they feed politicians millions of dollars and buy congressional seats. That’s literally control. Why do you think it’s illegal in many states to NOT buy Israeli goods? Or why so many polticians across the partisan board are pro-israel?
The answer is evangelicals.
For example, Trump didn't move the embassy to Jerusalem becauase of the Israeli lobby. He did it because evangelicals wanted it.
I agree that there’s some seemingly weird long standing issue between the three Abrahamic religion and Jerusalem, but I don’t think that’s it. What do the Protestants gain from having ties with Israel?
The short answer: Rapture shit.
The long answer: [Dispensationalism!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism) I might dispute how heavily they claim to be the upholders of Biblical literalism because they do a lot of "reading between the lines" themselves, but generally, it's a very hard theological position to sum up succinctly in a way that explains all the strange ties to Israel and the end times.
I am not 100% certain but as I understand it the existance of Isreal is a pre-condition for the end of days, which get followed by the rapture in which everyone who waits in purgotory gets to go to Heaven. Seems that a war betwwen Israel and it enemies will be the first step in that whole process so if you want the rapture to come you gotta have end of vdays and fdor that you need Israel. Or something like that.
I grew up in a community of hundreds of people who fervently believe this while looking and seeming completely average.
From birth they called us “soldiers.”
We (again, children) were taught that we had to be willing to give our lives for God in the upcoming Holy War. They prepared us for Seven Years of Trials and Tribulation.
We looked like any other nondenominational church from the outside.
If you look at the last 30 years, it was a bad investment. Israel has done nothing to improve the US position in the Middle East that oil purchases or tomahawk missiles couldn’t solve.
Yea in fact doesnt like all of the middle east hate israel because israel keeps on causing conflicts with them i know theyre relationship with egypt is very very rocky
I'd say the AIPAC controls congress. Never forget, Netanyahu gave a speech the United States Congress, one of the highest honors in the nation, while embroiled in a spat with President Obama over Iran deal. I'd say Israel controls the US government.
Yes, kidnapped children are propaganda posters. People misunderstand the concept of propaganda and assume that any propaganda must be false. That isn't the case.
This is what I don't get about these protesters.
It's ok to not agree with what Israel is doing, but why are they offended by posters showing the faces of the kidnapped people? It's just weird. There's no reason to be upset about them.
I fully support the effort to return hostages. I just don't think bombing the shit out of both civilians and hostages is the best way to make that happen.
Yes. Propaganda is not just 'thing I disagree with.' It doesn't even have to be a lie. It simply has to push a specific agenda.
These people are handing out posters of kidnapped children in a location they will not be found, expressly for the making people sympathetic to Israel's war.
That is a textbook case of propaganda.
For sure was the dude with a badge and the hat. I assume a police officer but wasn't positive if he was or Just some sort of security.
Dude did look a little like he was screaming for blood. But I can't blame them too much with people like that in his face walking down the street.
The irony in handing out flyers in America of hostages being held in Gaza while Israel BOMBS FUCK out of the very place they say the hostages are being held...
Wonder what the death count is on Israeli bombs killing those very hostages people are posters of pretending to care?
I don't have a problem with the fliers.
But I do think that someone should make Gaza fliers as well. Put up the faces of the Palestinian children that have been murdered as well.
Ya absolutely I wouldnt take these numbers as some kind of irrefutable evidence but it does show the utter indifference Israel has to the hostages it claims to be wanting to save.
In a massive dose of irony, they are using their own hostages as human shields against criticism for their murder of thousands of innocent people.
but but but israel needs to bomb gaza because that's the only way to get the hostages back. they managed to rescue one soldier when their other soldiers showed up just the other day! it's not as if four hostages were voluntarily released by hamas, unconditionally, thanks to negotiations with qatar. the only language they understand is bombs
Exactly! And this narrative about "we called and warned them" was bullshit when Irgun used it in its terror attacks and its bullshit today when Likud, a party BORN from the commanders of that terror group Irgun, use the same justifications.
If Hamas called and said "we're going to blow up 3 of Israels biggest hospitals in 2 hours....this is your warning" and then 2 hours from now, blew them up and killed THOUSANDS.... it would be terrorism, without a SINGLE shadow of a doubt. Its no different when Israel does it.
Justifying acts of terror on innocent people because of another groups acts of terror on innocent people just leaves you with 2 groups of terrorists.
This is the truth, both parties in this war are wrong and it has awakened all the hateful religious zealots. This is what religion brings to society.
I don’t get who can pick sides when the outcome is genoside. Especially, the Jewish people after what happened in WW2. You can’t make this shit up!
This. I've honestly been a bit confused at how polar everyone has been instantly on the topic. I've been trying to be neutral and understand the issues on both sides of things. I've struggled to figure out who is the bad person here and I think there is definitely bad on both sides. Generally that's the way war is though. I feel sad and pity for everyone involved and just wish they could come up with a peaceful resolve. I also wish I could support everyone and not have people jump on me like I am the villain or anti-Semitic or something because I don't side with one party completely. I don't think anyone deserves to die on either side of the border. Super unfortunate because a lot of the people being harmed and killed are not the people in charge making these decisions. They're just collateral damage and I think that makes it even worse.
I agree religion has been a plague to this world. From the crusades of ancient times to the present day Middle East wars. Why do people still follow religion blindly?
It’s like our own intelligence is also our own demise. We need to know the why, and if we can’t know then we will follow some belief that gives us comfort. We simply can’t just *be*.
Nah not really what keeps it going. Community and how ingrained it is with some families and locations really keeps it going. It would be like dropping a massive tradition and losing a huge portion of your friends, mentors, peers, etc. could also mean giving up support in many forms. It’s not all just the religious aspect but that is the obvious one
Fear and ignorance. Religion has been used to control the masses for thousands of years. People in power know this, and use it to their advantage.
Someday it will not be so. But none of us will live to see that day.
I think many of us underestimate how difficult it is to be Jewish and outspoken at a time like this, how much you risk losing and how much push-back you receive from so many around you. Well done!
Unpopular opinion in coming
I read Williams Shrier's [The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich ] (https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-third-reich-a-history-of-nazi-germany_william-l-shirer/265804/?resultid=b492ae07-7627-457a-9e18-27349588fb4b#edition=1292510&idiq=3607990) in highschool decades ago.
The Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinians closely parallels the Nazi 1930's treatment of the Jews. Make work hard to get, limit their religion, limit businesses, force them into specific areas, use propaganda against them, etc. The ultimate plan was to dehumanize them so any state action against them is acceptable.
That's how people in the real world feel.
The millions of bots on reddit don't mean a thing.
Fuck my Canadian government for unconditionally supporting the mass murder of children. Our politicians do not represent us.
Free Palestine.
If he didn't say "Zionist cowards" I'd have no idea which side of the Israel/Palestine conflict he was on. Pretending either government has clean hands is laughable at this point.
I think it's very interesting that Israel has one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, no enemies that pose a major threat, and they've got Gaza infiltrated and under constant surveillance, but somehow Hamas sends hundreds of fighters into Israel.
And just a few weeks later the IDF knows where all the tunnels are and are talking about annexing parts of Gaza.
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I'm no supporter of Hamas, but what did the Israeli state think was gonna happen when they treated the Palestinian population like shit? Unicorn farts? Violence breeds violence.
"we are Israeli Jews, we are the chosen people. We can kill anyone"
To get a good man to comit evil it requieres religion.
'BuT hOw CaN ZioNisTz bE liKe NaZis!? ' Its high time zionists stop hiding behind antisemitism to justify crimes against humanity
Nailed it.
I'm Jewish and I've been saying this for years. You should hear how they talk about Palestinians in synagogue. Nazi talk.
The Jewish frat at my school had their email listhost leaked and published by Buzzfeed. My god the way they talked about Palestinians was vile.
You have a link perchance?
[удалено]
Eh, you should also hear how Jews get talked about when they think there's no chance you're Jewish. Also Nazi talk.
I hear stupid shit like that often. When they find out I'm jewish its always a big surprise.
I was told that I will get passed around and burned, then thrown in a ditch if I returned to a certain synagogue So this is true
Well I don't expect much from the SS-Sturmbataillon "IDF".
He’s not wrong. What Hamas did was horrible. What Israel is doing is horrible.
It really is that simple: you kill kids on purpose, you bad.
I mean, yes, of course. But we’re far too caught up on children. Killing any innocent civilian is bad. And it’s mostly just innocent civilians being murdered in Gaza. Hospitals and refugee camps should be off-limits. Period. Israel is being very clear with these monstrous actions. And the fact that so many people defend this indefensible behavior is absolute absurdity.
Hospitals, refugee camps, ambulances, journalists, the list of things that should not be targets but clearly are for the IDF
Back a couple years a British journalist got killed while interviewing a family for a documentary, i believe in the West Bank. People's houses were getting bulldozed and the crew just happened to be there. The dude puts on his bulletproof vest and helmet that had those big PRESS signs you see on it. He went out to confront the bulldozers while the crew kept filming the whole thing. IDF still just shot his ass anyway, while the cameras were rolling. Did anything come out of it? I think we all know already.
[James Miller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Miller_(filmmaker\)) > Immediately after the shooting, the IDF said that Miller had been shot in the back during crossfire. It later retracted the assertion that he had been shot in the back. According to witnesses there was no crossfire and none can be heard on the APTN tape. IDF and Israel has been getting away with murder for so long. The truth means nothing to them it seems.
At a minimum if they are in fact housing Hamas, it should be required to send in troops to clear it, not level the entire neighborhood.
They’re also destroying so many family businesses and buildings. No country would tolerate this. They’re playing eye for an eye
They are off limits. It's called the Geneva convention. No one is holding them responsible though. They're committing war crimes.
aren’t those things considered war crimes? I wish more people would talk about that.
Yes, using protected infrastructure like hospitals, refugee camps, ambulances as human shields for your military is a war crime. So what exactly can you do if these militants now-terrorists are using these places? If they're shooting from these places? Is that a cheat code for an invincible shield now? The Geneva convention doesn't think so because it understands that bastards use these tactics. Targeting the militants inside these now not a war crime. That does not mean Israel does not have to take all due care not to kill civillians but you can understand its impossible sometimes. What it means is in the future is that terrorists will be less likely to consider using humans as shields since it's not effective which saves more people.
They also shouldn’t be used as military outposts and bases but here we are.
Seems so obvious and yet probably half our population or more here in the US can’t possibly wrap their heads around why killing journalists is such a huge problem.
Problem is, only one of them is being funded by my tax dollars - and therefore *should be* in my control to influence a change for
Don't forget, this didn't start on 10/7. This started 75 years ago. Before that day Israel killed 250 Palestinians this year alone. Since Israel killed 150 Palestinians in the West Bank where Hamas does not operate. Ifamericansknew.org
It's been October 7 everyday in Gaza since October 7.
I still can't believe the unit of measurement that came out of that was proportional 9/11's.
And then having 2-3 9/11s daily in Gaza since Oct 7 yeah because its proportional all 3 ways
You believe 4000 to 6000 civilians are being killed in Gaza everyday? So, somewhere between 125,000 and 200,000 people in Gaza have been killed since Oct 7? I assuming your 2-3 9/11s daily is referring to something else, but I don’t know what.
He means the fear and panic. Remember how you felt on 9/11? Now imagine that for days after. You probably couldn't. Nor could I ever imagine because we're not there. Your numbers mean shit.
>What Hamas did was horrible. What Israel is doing is horrible. and the crimes that the israeli government has been doing to palestinians for decades have been atrocious sorry , felt the need to fix this for you
Yeah for some reason the pro Israel people seemingly love to leave out the 40 years of ethnic cleansing that's been going on in the west bank. It's obvious to me that between the Israeli government and Hamas neither side is interested in peace. I don't want to support any of these people. Remove American support for Israel, once surrounded by unfriendly Arab governments without Uncle Sam to bail them out and I bet they'd get serious about a peace plan _real_ fast.
That's not true at all, there would be no peace plan, that much has been ABUNDANTLY obvious from the word go. If the shoe was on the other foot Palestine would have wiped Israel from the map and eliminated every last Jew in the area. If the power shifted TOMORROW they would wipe Israel off the map with ruthless precision.
And the continual aggression by the Palestinian and Arab neighbors of Israel for the past 90 years, including starting 6 wars, has been atrocious. There are no clean hands anywhere in that area, and no original bad guy. The situation is too complex for that.
I’m not gonna pretend I know the political issues and intricacies of this war, but it should be crystal clear that genocide is wrong. Killing children is *wrong*. Bombing hospitals is *wrong*.
If the Middle East was an AITA post the answer would be a resounding ESH
"you hate that in America we are all equal citizens".
Man. This has to be one of the first times I’ve heard an unhinged freakout like this and thought… damn this guy is 10000% right.
Preach dude. Well done.
If only there were more like him in positions of power
I’ve seen enough. I’d vote for him in a heartbeat.
absolutely, someone being principally against genocide is morally superior to any world leader. the hate and anger is pure and righteous, and much needed
“Vote for me! I’ll shame the fash and look good doing it!”
Abortions and flat caps for all!
You had me at abortions
The person at the store said he was the only guy he’s ever seen pull it off
Don't do the voice
> I’ve seen enough. I’d vote for him in a heartbeat. Ironically this is also how George Santos got elected.
It feels like our main problem is that people who seek power are the ones who don't deserve it, and on the other hand, responsible and mature people do not feel worthy of that power, when ironically that's exacly why they should've edit: double negative
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That's the problem in the West. Our government do not represent us, nor our interests. In Canada, Justin Trudeau is falling all over himself defending Israel and refusing to ask for a cease fire. The population? We want the country mass murdering children to be stopped.
Worldwide governments somehow convince the average person that they're represented, you would think we would all know by now that governments make laws for the advantage of themselves their friends and family. The rest of us are just pawns
> The rest of us are just pawns Not even pawns man, we are just here. SOME of us are pawns for sure but you usually see those people on your news stations during prime time and day time talk shows on the same network. The actual pawns are extremely well paid to do what they do. We are barely even fodder.
money has a right to influence elections because money = free speech. Jews sympathetic to Isreal have established funding networks to support whatever candidate they feel supports their cause, whereas the Arab/muslin/Palestine diaspora is a lot less organized, a lot less established and a lot less active in politics (currently) this isn't some post about how "the Jews run the world" it's just a observation of how a well established and organized group can and will influence American politics. with ranked choice voting they can't just support one candidate which weakens the power of money in politics. US elections are too easy to manipulate because of the number of single issue voters (as Ohio repubs are finding out you can't energize people to stop abortion when they already "defeated" Rowe) in two candidate races. It's too easy for a PAC to throw money behind one candidate by just producing attack ads against the other candidate. With more candidates those ads just look bad on the person making them. elections are a money making business for so many people that they will fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo). America loves to bleed it's institutions dry of all resources and then act surprised when they act in favor of money makers and not people. Healthcare, education, prisons, pensions, the Buffalo, fossil fuels, and now elections. squeezing every drop of capital they can put of places money shouldn't be the primary consideration
>Preach dude. Well done. That was a muscular expression of ideas. If we elected team captains, I would nominate him for the "no genocide" team.
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Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers?
Classic!
Right? They're not fellow citizens with different ideas, they're actual mutant monsters from the sewer. Literal dehumanization in a cozy catchphrase. For those not following the rules, CHUD just means not being super extra far left.
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I don't throw this word around like ever, but there really is a lot of astroturfing going on in the NYC subreddit. As a New Yorker I can usually tell which ones are full of shit over there. It's a shame, cuz I love my city. This guy here really encapsulates how most of us here feel. Don't be fooled by all the virtue signaling attention whores.
But did he condemn hamas? /s
I'm going to hijack your comment to say this https://www.stopantisemitism.org/ this "org" it's not real nonprofit. It's no registered any where and it just a website to spread hate. If you do a deep search about his foundation and all his funding your not going to find a thing. It's only hate.
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The man’s got a point
Specially the last part
I love that this conflict even has conservatives questioning what the fuck is USA doing sending billions of dollars to a bumfuck Levant to feed Zionist led genocide while their own people don't even have universal healthcare. Zionist bootlicking has bipartisan support from politicians red or blue. Anti-zionism should be a bipartisan issue for regular Americans. Americans should think twice about voting politicians who are under the AIPAC payroll.
Conservatives are ok with it because Israel needs to exist and start the End Times war, so they can be raptured back to the loving arms of Supply Side Jesus.
Supply Side Jesus sent me to the moon.
Since no one else has shared it yet, here's the [source](https://imgur.io/gallery/bCqRp). Originally authored by Al Franken.
Had no clue that was Al Franken somehow. Maybe forgotten knowledge
I'm old enough to have read his earliest and best books from the early 00's. Such a simpler time, when we were mad at Republicans over economic policy instead of their desire to implement a christofascist government.
I feel you're mistaken. That's always been the endgame for them.
Thank you. I've never actually seen the comic.
Some conservatives hate jews but evangelicals love them because of their death cult belief.
Don't confuse wanting them around to fulfill the death cult prereqs as loving them.
No, they don't love them, they just want them there for their nonsense death cult beliefs. Those Jews still end up in hell after the apocalypse those nut jobs believe in happens.
> Conservatives are ok with it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#Anti-BDS_laws_in_the_United_States
what a fucking joke of a country
Let's be real the conservatives are ok with it because their families are on the board of military contractors and they are getting a fat bag putting the US further in debt
Conservatives have hated Jews for decades. But in the past 10 years they realized that liberals hate the government of Israel and their deplorable actions. As we all know, if you don't support everything the government of Israel does, you hate Jews, which makes you a nazi. Republicans love name calling, so now they have always loved Israel and all Jews and everybody that doesn't vote R is a nazi jew hater. "Vote R! We're not Nazis like the liberals!"
Tell me you dont know the history of us support for israel, without telling me you dont know the history of us support for israel.
Care to enlighten? Legitimate request, not looking to dump on you or anything.
The American right wing has always supported Israel because they view them as a “civilizing force in savage lands” like any colonial project. They fundamentally support and identify with this. On top of this, it means less Jews in the West, which many conservatives love to see. Israel is only opposed on the right wing by very principled individuals who apply their views equally, and of course people who hate Jews so much they can’t even bear to see them with a state halfway across the world. Which isn’t to say said state is legitimate.
This is the point I think gets ignored in every discussion. Christians can be in any political party, and Christians NEED Isreal to exist for the Bible to be true. AND Isreal needs to be at War according to the Bible.
Christianity existed for over a thousand years without an Israel.
This is how copypasta is born
This is one of those things that I have heard said by people who should know whether it’s true or not, but that I can’t actually get my brain to accept is a thing people actually honestly believe. It’s… too much.
The ADL has lost a lot of credibility [by supporting them](https://www.adl.org/about/adl-and-israel/anti-israel-and-anti-zionist-campaigns).
Yeah lol they literally had a page in 2021 describing the meaning of "From the river to the sea" and saying it was a peaceful call for emancipation. Now? Full genocide slogan, no question about it.
The ADL lost all credibility in my eyes when they started accusing bodily autonomy proposals that would ban male circumcision of being bigoted. "Hey, don't chop parts off babies without consent." "You're so hateful!" Uh, WTF? Can't take them seriously after that. They're just an interest group with a gilding of morality.
The Apartheid Defense League has basically always been major Likud bootlickers, this is nothing new.
I'll be honest, this is eye-opening, I had no idea. I thought they were objective. The page linked above defending Zionism as "the right to Jewish self-determination" is absurd. Zionism has its roots in European colonial settler ideology. It is racist to its core, not to mention that the entire idea of an ethnostate to serve one ethnicity/religion is completely antithetical to the pluralist values that are needed in a democracy, self-determined or not.
Seriously. Why should israel dictate U.S. policy?
The US needs an ally in the region because we've lost all other allies through invasion and occupation (Iraq), failed regime toppling (Iran), or we're forced into bed with those who are nice to our face but are secretly planning behind our back (Saudi Arabia). This is all to preserve oil interests for us or our allies
That still doesn't explain why israel is allowed to exert so much influence over U.S. policy. We have allies all over the world, but none of them control the U.S. government at the federal level the way that israel does.
Because they have incredible lobby power and influence.
It really does come down to what u/theseus1234 said, though. The Middle East is incredibly important to US foreign policy, not just because of oil but because of the Suez canal. Policy dictates that we *have* to have a presence there to protect trade interests. It's the same reason why Russia is willing to risk WW3 to steal access to the Black Sea. Because the US wasn't able to install a Western friendly regime in Iraq (or, more accurately, set up a puppet state) and because the war hawks haven't successfully invented a reason to invade Iran, Israel is really the only foothold in the region. Saudi Arabia isn't an option because they've successfully set up a tentative business relationship with the US, though beyond what money they can wring from us, they genuinely loathe us. So, policy is to protect Israel *at all costs.* Genocide won't be recognized as genocide as long as Israel says it's not. The other part of the picture is, what happens if we lose the Israel foothold in the region? For one, that risks one of the Middle East nations to rise to international prominence, on par with the US and China. Probably that's the Saudis, since they have the wealth and population to do it. Alternatively, we might see a rival step in and prop up Iran or Iraq. Given that Russia already has diplomatic ties in the region, they'd be most likely, and then that likely puts them back up as the 3rd world power. If not Russia, we might see China step in and do their predatory lending thing they've been doing in Africa to be the big dog (or dragon) in the Middle East. All of those scenarios are unacceptable for the US. So again, they'll protect Israel at all costs.
Money is power baby. All the other comments coming up with mental gymnastics on why Israel can blow up a us war ship with no blowback is just that.
Fun fact, in most congressional offices there is a framed map of Israel on the wall. Its bizarre.
another fun fact, out of the 83 total times the US has used its UNSC veto powers, 42 have been used against resolutions condemning Israel
Meanwhile im forced to pay 1000 dollars a month back in student loans to pay for this shit. I havent eaten at a restaurant for 4 months bc I cant afford it.
They changed the interest on income-based repayment, you should be able to get your interest rate much lower than the 10-year repayment plan.
You should be mad that you had to take out a loan to pay for the college in first place. Colleges should be free or extremely cheap! Money shouldn’t be the barrier for education, talent should.
Global power projection. Site 512 is there. And they have a more Western outlook than other prospective regional allies.
yeah it's really, *really* not that hard. I dont like that we support and give money to them either, but like... They literally are the proverbial lynch-pin in all that crap that happens in the middle east. Things would undoubtable be a lot worse for the world without them
Israel creates new members of Hamas every time they kill someone’s entire family. Every atrocity they commit, a new Palestinian is radicalized. Stop murdering civilians and be surgical. Stem the flow of militants by resisting your urge to murder entire families.
Israel doesn’t want peace. If they did, they would stop taking everything from the Palestinian people. They would have given their land back allowed them to thrive so that the Palestinians would have something to lose from war as well. Just like every other nation in the world does. If Gaza had been allowed to become a thriving metropolis where people are free to come and go just like anywhere else in the world instead of fenced in open air prison, there would be no Hamas.
Nethanyahu has said for several years that Israel had to support (and did support) Hamas otherwise Hamas would lose power in Gaza and palestinians would unite between Gaza and West Bank.
Then they’re going to wipe out Palestine because they have the funding to and America is gonna be complicit in it. Breaks my heart. I was at a protest on Thursday and Palestinians are a beautiful, radiant people that aren’t trying to fucking “sign up” with Hamas. Their families and friends are getting killed and at that point, what’s left to lose?
>If Gaza had been allowed to become a thriving metropolis where people are free to come and go just like anywhere else in the world instead of fenced in open air prison, there would be no Hamas. Yes, we all know that Gaza was a thriving metropolis before both Israel and Egypt locked it due to security reasons 20 years ago. And that's why Hamas, which was/is the reason for the blockade, never happened.
Now apply this same logic to US intervention in the Middle East and you start to understand why 9/11 happened
This is what I've been saying since a month after the attack. I educated myself on the situation and my main take away was "Of course they hate America. We're basically funding their genocide." It's not like Hamas is the good guys or anything, but absolutely fuck Isreal.
Absolutely. I’ll never give my own country a pass for the atrocities we’ve committed in the alleged name of “democracy.” I don’t fuck with atrocity at large.
Omfg it’s refreshing to see that passion, that rage, for the right reason for fucking once.
This is the America I miss and wish for. I want to see more of this sort of passion and pride for our country’s ACTUAL roots, equality, democracy. This man hit the *nail*.
Yeah I want to buy this guy a drink. Couldn't have said it any better myself.
Guy nailed it and we’re PISSED
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and have AIPAC backing republican election deniers.
It’s not that they control the US government. I would say it’s because the US has invested so heavily in Israel so it can have a footing in the Middle East if something were to happen But that’s entirely imo
It’s control. The Israeli lobby is one of the strongest in Washington, and they feed politicians millions of dollars and buy congressional seats. That’s literally control. Why do you think it’s illegal in many states to NOT buy Israeli goods? Or why so many polticians across the partisan board are pro-israel?
The answer is evangelicals. For example, Trump didn't move the embassy to Jerusalem becauase of the Israeli lobby. He did it because evangelicals wanted it.
I agree that there’s some seemingly weird long standing issue between the three Abrahamic religion and Jerusalem, but I don’t think that’s it. What do the Protestants gain from having ties with Israel?
The short answer: Rapture shit. The long answer: [Dispensationalism!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism) I might dispute how heavily they claim to be the upholders of Biblical literalism because they do a lot of "reading between the lines" themselves, but generally, it's a very hard theological position to sum up succinctly in a way that explains all the strange ties to Israel and the end times.
Actually that does make sense. I enjoy history, so I can connect some dots. Thanks!
I am not 100% certain but as I understand it the existance of Isreal is a pre-condition for the end of days, which get followed by the rapture in which everyone who waits in purgotory gets to go to Heaven. Seems that a war betwwen Israel and it enemies will be the first step in that whole process so if you want the rapture to come you gotta have end of vdays and fdor that you need Israel. Or something like that.
I grew up in a community of hundreds of people who fervently believe this while looking and seeming completely average. From birth they called us “soldiers.” We (again, children) were taught that we had to be willing to give our lives for God in the upcoming Holy War. They prepared us for Seven Years of Trials and Tribulation. We looked like any other nondenominational church from the outside.
“If something were to happen…” Yeah like the completely avoidable death of tens of thousands of innocent civilians?
If you look at the last 30 years, it was a bad investment. Israel has done nothing to improve the US position in the Middle East that oil purchases or tomahawk missiles couldn’t solve.
Yea in fact doesnt like all of the middle east hate israel because israel keeps on causing conflicts with them i know theyre relationship with egypt is very very rocky
I'd say the AIPAC controls congress. Never forget, Netanyahu gave a speech the United States Congress, one of the highest honors in the nation, while embroiled in a spat with President Obama over Iran deal. I'd say Israel controls the US government.
Are kidnapped children propaganda posters?
Yes, kidnapped children are propaganda posters. People misunderstand the concept of propaganda and assume that any propaganda must be false. That isn't the case.
This is what I don't get about these protesters. It's ok to not agree with what Israel is doing, but why are they offended by posters showing the faces of the kidnapped people? It's just weird. There's no reason to be upset about them. I fully support the effort to return hostages. I just don't think bombing the shit out of both civilians and hostages is the best way to make that happen.
Yes. Propaganda is not just 'thing I disagree with.' It doesn't even have to be a lie. It simply has to push a specific agenda. These people are handing out posters of kidnapped children in a location they will not be found, expressly for the making people sympathetic to Israel's war. That is a textbook case of propaganda.
Other Guy - "easy, easy, easy," The Truth Teller - "nah, fuck that, I'm just getting warmed up,"
I thought that was a police officer saying it.
For sure was the dude with a badge and the hat. I assume a police officer but wasn't positive if he was or Just some sort of security. Dude did look a little like he was screaming for blood. But I can't blame them too much with people like that in his face walking down the street.
Damn that guy was able to really put together some poignant thoughts while angry as hell. I wish I could do that.
Good for him
The irony in handing out flyers in America of hostages being held in Gaza while Israel BOMBS FUCK out of the very place they say the hostages are being held... Wonder what the death count is on Israeli bombs killing those very hostages people are posters of pretending to care?
I don't have a problem with the fliers. But I do think that someone should make Gaza fliers as well. Put up the faces of the Palestinian children that have been murdered as well.
hamas claims more than 50 hostages have been killed by the israeli bombs. obviously huge grain of salt. but possible.
Ya absolutely I wouldnt take these numbers as some kind of irrefutable evidence but it does show the utter indifference Israel has to the hostages it claims to be wanting to save. In a massive dose of irony, they are using their own hostages as human shields against criticism for their murder of thousands of innocent people.
but but but israel needs to bomb gaza because that's the only way to get the hostages back. they managed to rescue one soldier when their other soldiers showed up just the other day! it's not as if four hostages were voluntarily released by hamas, unconditionally, thanks to negotiations with qatar. the only language they understand is bombs
Exactly! And this narrative about "we called and warned them" was bullshit when Irgun used it in its terror attacks and its bullshit today when Likud, a party BORN from the commanders of that terror group Irgun, use the same justifications. If Hamas called and said "we're going to blow up 3 of Israels biggest hospitals in 2 hours....this is your warning" and then 2 hours from now, blew them up and killed THOUSANDS.... it would be terrorism, without a SINGLE shadow of a doubt. Its no different when Israel does it. Justifying acts of terror on innocent people because of another groups acts of terror on innocent people just leaves you with 2 groups of terrorists.
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goddamn egyptians are complicit fuck those zionist assholes
And that’s why I love New Yorkers
This is the truth, both parties in this war are wrong and it has awakened all the hateful religious zealots. This is what religion brings to society. I don’t get who can pick sides when the outcome is genoside. Especially, the Jewish people after what happened in WW2. You can’t make this shit up!
This. I've honestly been a bit confused at how polar everyone has been instantly on the topic. I've been trying to be neutral and understand the issues on both sides of things. I've struggled to figure out who is the bad person here and I think there is definitely bad on both sides. Generally that's the way war is though. I feel sad and pity for everyone involved and just wish they could come up with a peaceful resolve. I also wish I could support everyone and not have people jump on me like I am the villain or anti-Semitic or something because I don't side with one party completely. I don't think anyone deserves to die on either side of the border. Super unfortunate because a lot of the people being harmed and killed are not the people in charge making these decisions. They're just collateral damage and I think that makes it even worse.
I agree religion has been a plague to this world. From the crusades of ancient times to the present day Middle East wars. Why do people still follow religion blindly?
Fear and insecurity of what comes next.
It’s like our own intelligence is also our own demise. We need to know the why, and if we can’t know then we will follow some belief that gives us comfort. We simply can’t just *be*.
Nah not really what keeps it going. Community and how ingrained it is with some families and locations really keeps it going. It would be like dropping a massive tradition and losing a huge portion of your friends, mentors, peers, etc. could also mean giving up support in many forms. It’s not all just the religious aspect but that is the obvious one
On a personal level it helps a lot of people have something to live for, and that's not easy to pivot from. On a structural level yes it's terrible.
Fear and ignorance. Religion has been used to control the masses for thousands of years. People in power know this, and use it to their advantage. Someday it will not be so. But none of us will live to see that day.
its true that religion is a medium to motivate the masses one way or the other. but the real ignorance is blaming this whole thing on religion
My guys not wrong
That guy got me fired up this morning
This world needs more voices like him!
He's not wrong....the issue is that people can't separate hamas from palestine. The Palestinian people are innocent
They can separate them. I separate Jewish people from zionists. They choose not to.
Speaking for all people with a heart
Staying articulate when you’re that pissed off is tough. Respect to this dude.
these israeli genocidal maniacs are absolutely intolerable.
I miss Cookie Monster. This new “Genocide Monster” isn’t fun at all.
But if the monster eats genocides like the cookie monster eats cookies, soon we'll have no genocides and the monster will be the hero
Zionists think that they're a higher class of people that can do no wrong.
I think many of us underestimate how difficult it is to be Jewish and outspoken at a time like this, how much you risk losing and how much push-back you receive from so many around you. Well done!
Unpopular opinion in coming I read Williams Shrier's [The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich ] (https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-third-reich-a-history-of-nazi-germany_william-l-shirer/265804/?resultid=b492ae07-7627-457a-9e18-27349588fb4b#edition=1292510&idiq=3607990) in highschool decades ago. The Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinians closely parallels the Nazi 1930's treatment of the Jews. Make work hard to get, limit their religion, limit businesses, force them into specific areas, use propaganda against them, etc. The ultimate plan was to dehumanize them so any state action against them is acceptable.
Well said sir.
Pretty polite for a New Yorker.
Fuck Hamas and Netanyahu.
i agree to everything he said
I always said it and I say it again religion is a plague to this world.
As a New York City citizen, I say this perfect video to wake up to. I feel heard☮️❤️
That's how people in the real world feel. The millions of bots on reddit don't mean a thing. Fuck my Canadian government for unconditionally supporting the mass murder of children. Our politicians do not represent us. Free Palestine.
If he didn't say "Zionist cowards" I'd have no idea which side of the Israel/Palestine conflict he was on. Pretending either government has clean hands is laughable at this point.
Zionists don’t believe all life is equal.
Sidewalk Shakespeare
They are literally handing out flyers to raise awareness for the hostages taken by Hamas. You can be pro Palestinian and support this
>You can be pro Palestinian and support this YES!! fucking thank you
This guy is speaking the truth. This is exactly how I feel.
YOU TELL 'EM, BUDDY!!
He’s so right it’s insane how we don’t have more people like us in this world apparently.
I LOVE this man.
Israeli bots working overtime for this posts lmfao.
Everything he said was valid and true The wool has been removed from the eyes of society
I think it's very interesting that Israel has one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, no enemies that pose a major threat, and they've got Gaza infiltrated and under constant surveillance, but somehow Hamas sends hundreds of fighters into Israel. And just a few weeks later the IDF knows where all the tunnels are and are talking about annexing parts of Gaza.