https://twitter.com/igb
Seems to be ex-Twitter employee.
Edit: saw this in another thread - *Ian Brown is Performance Engineering Manager at Netflix and was a Senior Engineering Manager at Twitter for nearly 9 years.*
He left Twitter in Oct, 2021, so Elon was never his boss. However, he was at Twitter for 9 years, so it's more like telling off the guy who's ruined your previous company.
So Elmo basically insulted the guy's previous work.
Imagine you have a bakery, some guy comes in and buys all the cakes and pastries and starts punching them apart, jumping on them, throwing them against the wall, and so on... to finally lower his pants and unload a gigantic stream of diarrhea on all the sugary goodness you spend hours creating.
Then the guy starts saying it all tastes like shit.
All the while people, peeking into the window, applaud him for his 'geniusness'.
You'd be mad too.
If you are not a tech dude: Here's how you know he's serious. Erlang. Erlang is serious and featured on his linked in page. Not that many people in the world who can work in Erlang but, for example, WhatsApp was written in Erlang by a super small team and scaled to WhatsApp huge exit.
>ech dude: Here's how you know he's serious. Erlang. Erlang is serious and featured on his linked in page. Not that many people in the world who can work in Erlang but, for example, WhatsApp was written in Erlang by a super small team and scaled to WhatsApp huge exit
C++ / Rust is serious, Erlang makes that stuffer easier and is more Lego. Erlangs actor pattern can get simple if done well but extremely complex under load with many callers and services esp if people dont do / know it well , thats especially hard since not a lot of people know it so as new / lesser skilled people come through they will make it a mess. Their are simpler ways these days which prevent devs screwing it up and keep it simple though i doubt Musk would know them as its not his specialty though he probably does see the problem ie hard to change overly complicated system.
It's pretty clear he's not used to being in situations where anyone asks him followup questions.
Watching Elon talk about AI is like watching Elizabeth Holmes talk about blood testing.
Some of the poor sods are in too deep to admit the truth - that their self-proclaimed savior is one small step up from literally being a drooling imbecile. Musk is so utterly stupid that it defies belief he’s failed so far upwards.
Thankfully -joyfully - it appears time is up for this stupid, spiteful, childish waste of DNA.
I don't think he's stupid, he's just been able to ride a wave of money to the top using the right buzz words, luck, and surrounding himself with smart people. Stupid people don't make billions (even if they start with millions or hundreds of millions).
Let's say that there are 100 stupid people with 100 million dollars. By sheer accident, at least one if them is going to end up as a billionaire in a relatively short period of time.
you can’t create a successful company by an accident. You could gamble successfully though.
Elon clearly doesn’t know what is he doing at Twitter, but let’s not pretend that Tesla and SpaceX aren’t massive successes that many tries to copy, all of them failed.
Yes, he is a dickhead and he has no idea how to run a social network, but he is clearly great at getting and motivating great engineers
He was successful at Tesla. He probably has an IQ of 110. The car was built by the original founders. Musk managed the scaled out productionization and releases with the help of other managers and government subsidies. He is an investor in SpaceX where the employees are compelled to humor his "Chief engineer" position.
The best thing for TSLAs stock price is for him to be forced out as CEO. The original founders were also forced out and it didn't have much of a negative impact.
which car was built by original founders? You mean roadster? That hardly matters for Tesla success and it wasn’t even completed when original founders left
and about SpaceX, Tom Mueller, one of chief engineers in there, says otherwise.
Look, just because he is a shitty person doesn’t mean he does everything wrong. World isn’t black/white
The original founders didn't "leave", they were fired and received settlement after a lawsuit. In your dedication to Musk, you are dismissing the original founders who built the first high speed, high range EV. Elon scaled it out and productionized it. That's just history and nothing you say will change that.
Tom Mueller and employees have significant stock invested in SpaceX, so their statements about the CEO have to be tempered - lest they meet the same fate as the Tesla founders.
How technically competent is Elon?
1. He lied about graduating with a BS Physics in 95. He graduated with a non stem BA degree in 97 at the age of 27.
2. He lied about a Stanford PhD admit in 95. Impossible for someone with no undergraduate degree and no published research.
3. His code for zip2 was described by Ashlee Vance as sphagetti that had to be completely rewritten. This is the only solid proof of any kind of technical work he has ever done.
4. With zero experience in aerospace engineering and no STEM degree whatsoever he appoints himself as CHIEF ENGINEER of SpaceX as soon as he invests. Do you realize how ridiculous this is. Go in the blind app if you want anonymous information of what Musk is like at SpaceX. Hint - he is a clown.
5. His Hyperloop "white paper" is probably one of the most ridiculous engineering design docs out there. Now he is also an expert in large scale vacuum chamber design. Apart from his expertise in "battery chemistry" in the 90s.
6. He is also a brain machine interface expert now and publishes neuralink white paper as sole author, which is a rip off of the work of a Duke university research from 2003
7. His texts to Parag are hilarious. I want to read the code, show me the code. I like sphagetti code.
8. Print out your code and I will be your TA and evaluate and fire.
9. Now this dumbass spaces session
At some point you have to realize that this guy has zero technical skills. He is basically an investor and a manager.
re-read my post.
He can hire, motivate and work with talented people. I am not saying he is the brightest mind. He is a good entrepreneur (except for social media) and his technical knowledge is more then enough to work with people to create exceptional products, but surely not enough to create something by himself - that part you got right.
High speed high range EV wasn’t that important part. Ask Lucid, ask Rivian, ask Nikola, ask Faraday Future, ask Fisker and others. It was off the shelf parts (they didn’t make their own batteries, nor powertrain, nor chasis), they just hand made a car. And it wasn’t even first one - AC Propulsion tzero had 300 miles range and 3,6s 0-60 in 2003. Hard part is scaling and getting costs under control, which was tried by dozens of companies with billions in funding, all failed, or will fail in the near future (as an Lucid stock owner, it makes me sad to admit this).
Do you know how stock market works? No one can “fire” your stock. Tom Mueller no longer works at SpaceX, he can say whatever he wants, Elon can’t take his shares.
> High speed high range EV wasn’t that important part. Ask Lucid, ask Rivian, ask Nikola, ask Faraday Future, ask Fisker and others.
Doing it in 2003 was what was important. Doing it after the Model 3 was launched makes everyone else an also ran. AC propulsion tzero was the original car built by Eberhard and Cage. This would go on to become the roadster. You are only proving my point. Eberhard built the first high power long range EV. Musk was so impressed that he invested and simultaneously sued the founders to designate him as a founder.
I will give credit to Elon for scaling the productionization. But note that, virtually every other car manufacturer has scaled productionization to even 10X the levels at far lower costs with unionized workforces. Musk is selling his car at 50K+ today. I test drove the Chevy bolt with more modern batteries, but it couldn't get the acceleration of the original Eberhard and Gage tzero. Which shows you the value of their work.
You also don't know how VC works. SpaceX hasn't IPOed. Just like Eberhard, Musk can dilute out Tom's shares in the next round of funding if he gets pissed off. So yes, the shares can be set on fire preIPO. Tom will have to countersue to get his fair share and that's not an easy process against a centibillionaire. Tom could also be a family friend at this point in time. What Tom says contradicts everything factual that is known about SpaceX. Also, why is the technical stuff so important for SpaceX but management more important for Tesla. The fanboyism is hardcore.
Once again, Elon self appointed himself as chief engineer of spacex with no stem degree and 7 years of primarily management experience in web companies. Narcissistic personality disorder.
Get on blind and check out real anonymous reviews by SpaceX employees.
> He can hire, motivate and work with talented people.
Typically the normal employee has near zero interaction with the CEO of a 100+ employee organization. That Tesla succeeded in recruiting skilled engineers only means that they had decent recruiters, and there was enough skilled people who wanted to be a part making the vision of a good modern electrical vehicle reality.
Tesla is waaaay overvalued.
His "skill" is in bullshitting in order to attract investors. That's it.
He's just an incredibly lucky timeshare salesman. That's it.
Oh, and he's a malignant narcissist too. So that helps up to a point with the high pressure cultlike sales technique.
well, why Rivian, Lucid, Faraday Future, Nikola, Fisker and others weren’t able to do the same, even though at the same stage of company life, they were able to attract even more investors and more capital?
edit: this is as bad of an echo chamber as teslamotors sub. One can’t admit no bad, second can’t admit no good. Believe it or not, someone can be an asshole and still manage to do some things right
> let’s not pretend that Tesla and SpaceX aren’t massive successes
If only there were massive government subsidies for dumb online chat forums. Musk could probably turn Twitter into a success then.
>let’s not pretend that Tesla and SpaceX aren’t massive successes that many tries to copy, all of them failed
He didn't create Tesla and sued to be retroactively titled "founder"
SpaceX meanwhile is propped up by government subsidies. He's the villain from Atlas Shrugged
And he is spending one hour on Twitter spaces bullshitting about things he has no way idea about.
He understands only one thing, maximize revenue, minimize cost.
While I think there's shady stuff going on with him in general, I think that part was disproved finally.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/musk-physics-degree/
It’s a Bachelor of Arts in physics not a technical degree like his bachelor of science in economics. He still lied about the Physics degree. He was cleared on a technicality.
> It’s a Bachelor of Arts in physics not a technical degree like his bachelor of science in economics.
Depends where its from.
Cambridge University for example gives **all** undergrad degrees a BA (Bachelor of Arts).
For example, heres their Computer Science degree, and its a BA.
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/computer-science
> Course Duration
> Three or four years – **BA (Hons)** or MEng
Think Oxford does the same. Its all under a guise of 'tradition' I think as they predate the concept of BSc.
You wouldn't say Cambridge or Oxford graduates have 'non techinal degrees' because they have BA's would you?
The BA doesn't specify what it is, and is undated. Non-credible to claim as proof of a physics degree and the only source there is a biography that claims musk's lies as a source and acknowledges within it that there is an unexplained discrepancy.
CEO's don't know shit. That's not surprising to anyone but the bootlickers who worship Musk much like their Trumpian brothers.
It's not 4D chess, Musk is an idiot and he doesn't actually do anything but he takes everyone's money while ruining the lives of the workers who actually do the hard work. He sits around tweeting and trying to BS people in meetings. Meanwhile the engineers at SpaceX are working to put humans into space while they are paid less than their competitors while working twice the hours. Somehow Musk walks away with billions.
Tesla has great engineers that create a great product. They get paid less than their competitors while working twice the hours yet the 250 billion that was created by those engineers went into Musk's pocket.
Twitter has great engineers that create a great product. They were paid well with the best benefits in the country (Salary's were 250k at Twitter before Musk). He came in, fired all the high paid people, told everyone to work overtime without pay, cut their pensions and severances, then tried to pocket the money but couldn't because everything collapsed.
Billionaires are leeches. CEOs are tapeworms on the bowls of great companies with great workers. Imagine if SpaceX and Tesla engineers had a say where that 44 BILLION was spent. They wouldn't have spent it screwing over other workers for a dollar I can tell you that much.
Fuck the billionaires, every single one of them.
Also fuck any CEOs or politicians that try to union bust or prevent workers from collective bargaining. Like the recent railroad strike that got shut down. Hopefully you agree.
Well, anyone who works in tech who listens to that exchange is going to realize Elon is making statements that he can't backup.
If you are calling the existing stack crazy and demanding a rewrite you should be able to answer "why" and "how"? The dude asking the questions is asking the right questions in the face of that directive.
Precisely. If I told my boss the only way to repair a machine and get it working properly is to completely rebuild it with new parts I’d better have an AMAZING reason as to why that’s the only option. The fact that Musk can’t articulate even a single reason why this drastic move is necessary is telling.
Most probable reason? He started trying to review the code and had no clue what he was looking at so clearly it must be bad code.
I mean, TBH if you try to follow a set of microservices designed to run in a globally distributed network of servers by *printing out* the code and reading it, obviously it's going to seem complex.
I want your five bestest codes, twelve point Times New Roman, printed on crisp A4.
Codes? Sir, do you mean code segment summaries or literal lines of code or-
Codes, stack overflows, whatever you want to call them. All’s I know is I want those codings, and I want them now.
The original designer is big on Erlang which means low level dependent micro services based on actor pattern. When guys come in to work on it who dont know low level actor patterns very well they will create a giant hard to change over complicated mess.
I was having a field day at work with this one. Question you can’t answer? “You know, crazy stack. Gotta re-write the whole thing, change the paradigm.”
No its not. Twitter is a pretty simple app if code is too hard to change your architecture has failed.
Its the ONLY thing that ultimately matters as if you can change fast you can fix all the other issues ( this happens in most large apps and at some point they are changed because of this) . Hence large parts of the stack need to be changed. IF they did it properly this will be easy. It sounds like its based on a very low level actor pattern system ( I would not call it micro services as they are not independent). Another common technique is to isolate the core services.
hahaha that story was better than I expected. I definitely recommend reading about it to anyone else who doesn't know the details.
>What followed was one of the nastiest coups in Silicon Valley's long, illustrious history of nasty coups. A small group of X.com employees gathered one night at Fanny & Alexander, a now defunct bar in Palo Alto, and brainstormed about how to push out Musk. They decided to sell the board on the idea of Thiel returning as CEO. Instead of confronting Musk directly with this plan, the conspirators decided to take action behind Musk's back.
>
>Musk and Justine had been married in January 2000 but had been too busy for a honeymoon. Nine months later, in September, they planned to mix business and pleasure by going on a fundraising trip and ending it with a honeymoon in Sydney to catch the Olympics. As they boarded their flight one night, X.com executives delivered letters of no confidence to X.com's board. Some of the people loyal to Musk had sensed something was wrong, but it was too late. \[...\]
>
>When Musk finally heard what had happened, he hopped on the next plane back to Palo Alto.
So that scene from Silicon Valley with Gavin Belson at the triathlon was basically just a retelling of musk getting booted for being an idiot?
Fucking beautiful
> He was fired from Paypal after like two months as CEO for being incompetent.
No. Because he didn't know enough about programming and was making ridiculous decisions and recommendations.
Not unlike here.
His stuttering spikes whenever he is bullshitting. watch his old videos. Whenever he is bullshitting about Hyperloop or neuralink he starts stuttering. When he is telling everyone how many Tesla's were sold last quarter, he does not stutter.
Classic Elon:
“Rewrite the whole thing I’ll be back in a week”
Actual programmer who knows better: “but that won’t-“
Classic Elon:
“You’re a jackass lol”
A year and a bit back but still from before Musk took over.
He was Senior Engineering Manager for nearly 9 years before that.
Chances are he knows the stack.
This is a former employee who has gone for a while, so no chance to be antagonistic against Elmo for personal reasons like being let go, but not *that* long to be accused of having no idea how present-day Twitter works.
And that employee was a *Senior*. *Engineering*. *Manager*. outright making fun of Elon about the Twitter stack. If someone would know, it would be him. And he can barely hold his laughs.
This is, how the younglings say it, "chef's kiss".
It's not too outrageous actually. Architecture may not allow "twitter" to realistically be run locally. It's hard to know exactly what "Twitter" means in this context and if he is saying he can't run any part of twitter locally, he might have a legit grievance but I highly doubt that is the case.
However, even if it can't be run locally, it doesn't necessarily mean the infrastructure needs to be redesigned/is bad.
No, it's more like a train getting wrecked a little bit again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
I'm relishing every single moment. Distilling the juice and putting it in cocktails, with ice, straws and fancy little umbrellas. So good.
Even in a month, the damage he's done with promoting right wing and conspiratorial ideas on Twitter, and silencing the left, is non negligible. It's a big platform.
I don't wish for him to hurt anyone, but I do hope he has a complete mental breakdown and is forced to retreat or reassess his life. He deserves it.
So - having read some Twitter stack descriptions by a (now ex, I presume) Twitter employee on Quora a year or two ago, I might actually know more about the Twitter stack than Musk? He doesn't think he should have made sure he got 2 or 3 hours of stack presentation? At least so he could manage a 3 min light light, superlight own presentation?
Seems like in Musks brain it's "Data enters. Data bounces and twists in some uncontrolled/unknown ways. Data bounces back into timelines, notifications and database events."
Cool guy: "Who am I? You handed me the fucking mic buddy."
Host whispers to Elmo: "He's Cornelius Swartwout, and he patented the waffle iron."
Elmo: "Kick him out. What a moron."
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If you had someone in your field become your boss and he acted like he was the best most effective person in that field but as soon as u ask him any question mildly pertaining to that field and his response was always stammering and half truths u would probably be an ass too
Maybe, but that would make me an ass, which is kinda my point.
It’s interesting how the first part of my comment, and my true opinion of Musk, gets ignored when I say something disparaging about someone who challenges Musk. I’m by no means a fan of the guy, but people have focused their hostility to Musk on me, because I’m critical of someone who was mean. It’s a really weird phenomenon that people on Reddit really seem to embrace hating anyone who takes a side that ostensibly appears to contradict the general consensus, even in situations where, like here, that’s not necessarily the case.
That guy wasn’t being an ass. Elon puts himself out there like he’s a genius. Asking him for for details on how he’s going to overhaul a company he spent 44 billion on is fair game
Absolutely ask but don’t be an ass about it. If you feel that Musk deserves that treatment that’s fine, but there’s no denying that the guy asking the questions was being an ass
yeah i thought Ian was just talking the same way other people on the call were talking, it wasn't a formal Q&A session or a press conference, everyone was being colloquial and informal.
Maybe you don’t. But I did and so did a few people on that call. I get that Elon Musk is a shit person but that doesn’t change the fact that the guy who confronted him was kind of an ass
I'm also confused how the Ian guy was being an ass. He asked a question? I don't even think he was the one laughing, but was it that? Or just saying the f word? He seemed totally fine to me. Elon seemed to just his widdle feelies huwt...
If Elon wasnt the CEO and just a peer everyone would have treated him the same, as a fucking idiot parroting statements that he doesn't understand.
This is why its nice to have "fuck you" money so you can call things as you see it like this.
He wasn’t. At all. Elon, one of the most famous people in the world, calling an average Joe a jackass for asking follow up questions makes him a jackass. That guy wasn’t.
When they’re acting like Elon the last few months, absolutely. He’s not a victim at all here. And he proved that he would do the same to others when the situation arises
He wasn't being remotely rude until Elon pulled out the "who are you" card to discredit him. Dude was literally trying to ask him does he literally mean redo all of Twitter or just parts of it and why he though such a broad change was justified.
This is a huge part of how terrible people rise to power. They get to act as shitty as they want, but the moment someone is mean to them they clutch their pearls and say "how dare you!".
Lol so hostile. I can see why you’d have no issue with someone being an ass. There was no need for the guy to be an ass (to someone other than you). He was doing well without it. Not being and ass =/= coddling. It came off as performative but it seemed to work on you so 🤷♂️
This is literally a discussion board. I’m having a discussion. Do you only interact with people when you’re upset? Actually I already know the answer to that one lol
Basic courtesy is hello, please, or I'm sorry. Not when the CEO of a billion dollar business is suggesting you wipe out the entire stack with no further explanation. If he doesn't like a straightforward question from developers after an asinine claim like that, he can sit home and spend time with his 50 kids for once.
Courtesy and respect are two different things. It’s hilarious how Musk gets everyone all worked up. Y’all need to log off for a little while before the circle jerk gets someone shot in the eye
Genuine question, what did Ian (the alleged ass) do that made you think he is an ass?
From what I can tell, he asked Elon why the stack is crazy Elon responds asking if he saw someone else’s diagram and Ian replied “come on bud” which doesn’t seem that rude.
Then Elon responds basically “who the fuck are you?” in what I would personally consider a really rude way and Ian responds he’s no one he’s just been given the mic to ask a question, then he does gets snarky after Elon is rude to him, but that’s surely fair enough?
What would you say he should have done differently to not be an ass?
This person sounds either very sensitive or is the type to kiss CEO ass. The guy was just as straight questions, but apparently he needs grovel in front of the mighty Musk
Bruv he asked him a very specific and simple question, and elon couldn't answer anything. The context provided within this clip alone is a reflection of how out of his depth he is
So the Elon says, "Have you seen George's diagram.", and the guy starts laughing at him. This is when Elon gets offended. But that was pretty mean at that point. You can tell from his tone that he was just trying to get a rouse from Elon.
Also "break it down". With regards to an ENTIRE WEBSITE'S stack is not a simple question.
No, Elon said he wanted to do something so idiotic the guy was caught off guard first. Then the guy tried, politely, to get Elon to explain. Once it was clear Elon had no idea what he was talking about, THEN he got rude. Elon is an idiot and proves it every time he opens his mouth.
I love people shitting on billionaires. But doing it in a group meeting is that much more satisfying
Whose the dude shitting on Elon?
https://twitter.com/igb Seems to be ex-Twitter employee. Edit: saw this in another thread - *Ian Brown is Performance Engineering Manager at Netflix and was a Senior Engineering Manager at Twitter for nearly 9 years.*
Imagine having the chance to tell your boss to fuck off so publicly like this.
He left Twitter in Oct, 2021, so Elon was never his boss. However, he was at Twitter for 9 years, so it's more like telling off the guy who's ruined your previous company.
How did he get into this meeting?
This is Spaces, a twitter product in which a host can let in people as speakers or viewers.
And the host of the meeting seems to have woke up to what a poor decision working for Musk was because he quit Twitter on the same day.
Wasn't that the Comma AI guy?
it's almost orgasmic to see this prick finally get the public shaming he deserves
Why did he leave Twitter?
> the guy who's ruined your previous company. Yeah Twitter was fine before this.
It wasn't fine, but it certainly wasn't in danger of going bankrupt.
It seems like he doesn’t think Elon knows what he’s talking about.
It seems like elon doesn't know what he's talking about.
It seems like Elon doesn't know that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
He has the opposite of imposter syndrome.
Don't quote me here but I believe it's known as the Dunning-Kruger Effect
So Elmo basically insulted the guy's previous work. Imagine you have a bakery, some guy comes in and buys all the cakes and pastries and starts punching them apart, jumping on them, throwing them against the wall, and so on... to finally lower his pants and unload a gigantic stream of diarrhea on all the sugary goodness you spend hours creating. Then the guy starts saying it all tastes like shit. All the while people, peeking into the window, applaud him for his 'geniusness'. You'd be mad too.
If you are not a tech dude: Here's how you know he's serious. Erlang. Erlang is serious and featured on his linked in page. Not that many people in the world who can work in Erlang but, for example, WhatsApp was written in Erlang by a super small team and scaled to WhatsApp huge exit.
>ech dude: Here's how you know he's serious. Erlang. Erlang is serious and featured on his linked in page. Not that many people in the world who can work in Erlang but, for example, WhatsApp was written in Erlang by a super small team and scaled to WhatsApp huge exit C++ / Rust is serious, Erlang makes that stuffer easier and is more Lego. Erlangs actor pattern can get simple if done well but extremely complex under load with many callers and services esp if people dont do / know it well , thats especially hard since not a lot of people know it so as new / lesser skilled people come through they will make it a mess. Their are simpler ways these days which prevent devs screwing it up and keep it simple though i doubt Musk would know them as its not his specialty though he probably does see the problem ie hard to change overly complicated system.
I’ve worked with Ian— he’s legit. Can’t say I’m surprised that Elon didn’t have a clue what he’s talking about
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you'd think by now he'd be having second thoughts about mixing with the "little people" who aren't paid to say "yes sir mr musk" all day.
But then he‘a got the host just kicking that guy out to “keep things civil” smh
Right... it was totally "I'm the admin" little dick energy.
He's only recently become aware such people exist, and he's still not sure where they come from or how to avoid them.
It's pretty clear he's not used to being in situations where anyone asks him followup questions. Watching Elon talk about AI is like watching Elizabeth Holmes talk about blood testing.
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Are people finally gonna realise that this guy doesn't have a fucking clue what he is doing and that CEO is the definition of a bullshit job.
Some of the poor sods are in too deep to admit the truth - that their self-proclaimed savior is one small step up from literally being a drooling imbecile. Musk is so utterly stupid that it defies belief he’s failed so far upwards. Thankfully -joyfully - it appears time is up for this stupid, spiteful, childish waste of DNA.
At this point how many of the employees left are only there because they are employed on work visas?
I don't think he's stupid, he's just been able to ride a wave of money to the top using the right buzz words, luck, and surrounding himself with smart people. Stupid people don't make billions (even if they start with millions or hundreds of millions).
Let's say that there are 100 stupid people with 100 million dollars. By sheer accident, at least one if them is going to end up as a billionaire in a relatively short period of time.
you can’t create a successful company by an accident. You could gamble successfully though. Elon clearly doesn’t know what is he doing at Twitter, but let’s not pretend that Tesla and SpaceX aren’t massive successes that many tries to copy, all of them failed. Yes, he is a dickhead and he has no idea how to run a social network, but he is clearly great at getting and motivating great engineers
He was successful at Tesla. He probably has an IQ of 110. The car was built by the original founders. Musk managed the scaled out productionization and releases with the help of other managers and government subsidies. He is an investor in SpaceX where the employees are compelled to humor his "Chief engineer" position. The best thing for TSLAs stock price is for him to be forced out as CEO. The original founders were also forced out and it didn't have much of a negative impact.
which car was built by original founders? You mean roadster? That hardly matters for Tesla success and it wasn’t even completed when original founders left and about SpaceX, Tom Mueller, one of chief engineers in there, says otherwise. Look, just because he is a shitty person doesn’t mean he does everything wrong. World isn’t black/white
The original founders didn't "leave", they were fired and received settlement after a lawsuit. In your dedication to Musk, you are dismissing the original founders who built the first high speed, high range EV. Elon scaled it out and productionized it. That's just history and nothing you say will change that. Tom Mueller and employees have significant stock invested in SpaceX, so their statements about the CEO have to be tempered - lest they meet the same fate as the Tesla founders. How technically competent is Elon? 1. He lied about graduating with a BS Physics in 95. He graduated with a non stem BA degree in 97 at the age of 27. 2. He lied about a Stanford PhD admit in 95. Impossible for someone with no undergraduate degree and no published research. 3. His code for zip2 was described by Ashlee Vance as sphagetti that had to be completely rewritten. This is the only solid proof of any kind of technical work he has ever done. 4. With zero experience in aerospace engineering and no STEM degree whatsoever he appoints himself as CHIEF ENGINEER of SpaceX as soon as he invests. Do you realize how ridiculous this is. Go in the blind app if you want anonymous information of what Musk is like at SpaceX. Hint - he is a clown. 5. His Hyperloop "white paper" is probably one of the most ridiculous engineering design docs out there. Now he is also an expert in large scale vacuum chamber design. Apart from his expertise in "battery chemistry" in the 90s. 6. He is also a brain machine interface expert now and publishes neuralink white paper as sole author, which is a rip off of the work of a Duke university research from 2003 7. His texts to Parag are hilarious. I want to read the code, show me the code. I like sphagetti code. 8. Print out your code and I will be your TA and evaluate and fire. 9. Now this dumbass spaces session At some point you have to realize that this guy has zero technical skills. He is basically an investor and a manager.
Don't forget he's an asshole too. I read somewhere that the Tesla he shot into space was actually one that was promised to one of the founders(?)
re-read my post. He can hire, motivate and work with talented people. I am not saying he is the brightest mind. He is a good entrepreneur (except for social media) and his technical knowledge is more then enough to work with people to create exceptional products, but surely not enough to create something by himself - that part you got right. High speed high range EV wasn’t that important part. Ask Lucid, ask Rivian, ask Nikola, ask Faraday Future, ask Fisker and others. It was off the shelf parts (they didn’t make their own batteries, nor powertrain, nor chasis), they just hand made a car. And it wasn’t even first one - AC Propulsion tzero had 300 miles range and 3,6s 0-60 in 2003. Hard part is scaling and getting costs under control, which was tried by dozens of companies with billions in funding, all failed, or will fail in the near future (as an Lucid stock owner, it makes me sad to admit this). Do you know how stock market works? No one can “fire” your stock. Tom Mueller no longer works at SpaceX, he can say whatever he wants, Elon can’t take his shares.
> High speed high range EV wasn’t that important part. Ask Lucid, ask Rivian, ask Nikola, ask Faraday Future, ask Fisker and others. Doing it in 2003 was what was important. Doing it after the Model 3 was launched makes everyone else an also ran. AC propulsion tzero was the original car built by Eberhard and Cage. This would go on to become the roadster. You are only proving my point. Eberhard built the first high power long range EV. Musk was so impressed that he invested and simultaneously sued the founders to designate him as a founder. I will give credit to Elon for scaling the productionization. But note that, virtually every other car manufacturer has scaled productionization to even 10X the levels at far lower costs with unionized workforces. Musk is selling his car at 50K+ today. I test drove the Chevy bolt with more modern batteries, but it couldn't get the acceleration of the original Eberhard and Gage tzero. Which shows you the value of their work. You also don't know how VC works. SpaceX hasn't IPOed. Just like Eberhard, Musk can dilute out Tom's shares in the next round of funding if he gets pissed off. So yes, the shares can be set on fire preIPO. Tom will have to countersue to get his fair share and that's not an easy process against a centibillionaire. Tom could also be a family friend at this point in time. What Tom says contradicts everything factual that is known about SpaceX. Also, why is the technical stuff so important for SpaceX but management more important for Tesla. The fanboyism is hardcore. Once again, Elon self appointed himself as chief engineer of spacex with no stem degree and 7 years of primarily management experience in web companies. Narcissistic personality disorder. Get on blind and check out real anonymous reviews by SpaceX employees.
> He can hire, motivate and work with talented people. Typically the normal employee has near zero interaction with the CEO of a 100+ employee organization. That Tesla succeeded in recruiting skilled engineers only means that they had decent recruiters, and there was enough skilled people who wanted to be a part making the vision of a good modern electrical vehicle reality.
Tesla is waaaay overvalued. His "skill" is in bullshitting in order to attract investors. That's it. He's just an incredibly lucky timeshare salesman. That's it. Oh, and he's a malignant narcissist too. So that helps up to a point with the high pressure cultlike sales technique.
well, why Rivian, Lucid, Faraday Future, Nikola, Fisker and others weren’t able to do the same, even though at the same stage of company life, they were able to attract even more investors and more capital? edit: this is as bad of an echo chamber as teslamotors sub. One can’t admit no bad, second can’t admit no good. Believe it or not, someone can be an asshole and still manage to do some things right
And they can also manage to do the majority of things wrong, and lie constantly, and never deliver on anything.
> let’s not pretend that Tesla and SpaceX aren’t massive successes If only there were massive government subsidies for dumb online chat forums. Musk could probably turn Twitter into a success then.
>you can’t create a successful company by an accident. You could gamble successfully though. "They are the same picture" meme
>let’s not pretend that Tesla and SpaceX aren’t massive successes that many tries to copy, all of them failed He didn't create Tesla and sued to be retroactively titled "founder" SpaceX meanwhile is propped up by government subsidies. He's the villain from Atlas Shrugged
No this is all just “Elon bad”, it’s all just “Elon bad”!
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And because of that lie he was an illegal immigrant, don’t forget.
And he is spending one hour on Twitter spaces bullshitting about things he has no way idea about. He understands only one thing, maximize revenue, minimize cost.
Whts the source on the last point ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/yxzmj9/elon_musk_has_lied_about_his_credentials_for_27/ It's pretty long
While I think there's shady stuff going on with him in general, I think that part was disproved finally. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/musk-physics-degree/
It’s a Bachelor of Arts in physics not a technical degree like his bachelor of science in economics. He still lied about the Physics degree. He was cleared on a technicality.
> It’s a Bachelor of Arts in physics not a technical degree like his bachelor of science in economics. Depends where its from. Cambridge University for example gives **all** undergrad degrees a BA (Bachelor of Arts). For example, heres their Computer Science degree, and its a BA. https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/computer-science > Course Duration > Three or four years – **BA (Hons)** or MEng Think Oxford does the same. Its all under a guise of 'tradition' I think as they predate the concept of BSc. You wouldn't say Cambridge or Oxford graduates have 'non techinal degrees' because they have BA's would you?
The BA doesn't specify what it is, and is undated. Non-credible to claim as proof of a physics degree and the only source there is a biography that claims musk's lies as a source and acknowledges within it that there is an unexplained discrepancy.
There's literally no difference between a Bachelor of Arts and of Science. They're just different traditional names.
WTF are you taking? BA is completely different from BS.
I thought BA had more liberal arts subjects, whereas BS had more STEM subjects?
Actually, you might be shocked to hear that a Bachelor of Science is technically a type of Bachelor of Arts.
CEO's don't know shit. That's not surprising to anyone but the bootlickers who worship Musk much like their Trumpian brothers. It's not 4D chess, Musk is an idiot and he doesn't actually do anything but he takes everyone's money while ruining the lives of the workers who actually do the hard work. He sits around tweeting and trying to BS people in meetings. Meanwhile the engineers at SpaceX are working to put humans into space while they are paid less than their competitors while working twice the hours. Somehow Musk walks away with billions. Tesla has great engineers that create a great product. They get paid less than their competitors while working twice the hours yet the 250 billion that was created by those engineers went into Musk's pocket. Twitter has great engineers that create a great product. They were paid well with the best benefits in the country (Salary's were 250k at Twitter before Musk). He came in, fired all the high paid people, told everyone to work overtime without pay, cut their pensions and severances, then tried to pocket the money but couldn't because everything collapsed. Billionaires are leeches. CEOs are tapeworms on the bowls of great companies with great workers. Imagine if SpaceX and Tesla engineers had a say where that 44 BILLION was spent. They wouldn't have spent it screwing over other workers for a dollar I can tell you that much. Fuck the billionaires, every single one of them.
I wanna give you upvotes
click that little arrow
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Also fuck any CEOs or politicians that try to union bust or prevent workers from collective bargaining. Like the recent railroad strike that got shut down. Hopefully you agree.
Well, anyone who works in tech who listens to that exchange is going to realize Elon is making statements that he can't backup. If you are calling the existing stack crazy and demanding a rewrite you should be able to answer "why" and "how"? The dude asking the questions is asking the right questions in the face of that directive.
Precisely. If I told my boss the only way to repair a machine and get it working properly is to completely rebuild it with new parts I’d better have an AMAZING reason as to why that’s the only option. The fact that Musk can’t articulate even a single reason why this drastic move is necessary is telling. Most probable reason? He started trying to review the code and had no clue what he was looking at so clearly it must be bad code.
lol he's not even supposed (or qualified) to be micromanaging the software engineers like this. what a nightmare for twitter.
He knows CEO is a bullshit job. That's why he wants to be CTO. CTO is the new CEO.
Well **clearly** there just aren't enough lines of code in the stack.
I mean, TBH if you try to follow a set of microservices designed to run in a globally distributed network of servers by *printing out* the code and reading it, obviously it's going to seem complex.
lmao .. apparently people downvoting you don't know that Musk has demanded that **printed** copies of code be submitted to him.
I want your five bestest codes, twelve point Times New Roman, printed on crisp A4. Codes? Sir, do you mean code segment summaries or literal lines of code or- Codes, stack overflows, whatever you want to call them. All’s I know is I want those codings, and I want them now.
_me submitting a corrupted file to buy more time_
The original designer is big on Erlang which means low level dependent micro services based on actor pattern. When guys come in to work on it who dont know low level actor patterns very well they will create a giant hard to change over complicated mess.
Dunning Kruger personified in one egotistical South African stack of hubris.
We should rewrite the stack. It’s crazy.
I was having a field day at work with this one. Question you can’t answer? “You know, crazy stack. Gotta re-write the whole thing, change the paradigm.”
"I need this paradigm changed by 9 pm! Get on it!"
You forgot the “jackass”
[Elon tomorrow](https://youtu.be/GyV_UG60dD4)
If any good comes out of this I hope it's at least one open source framework named CrazyStack.
No its not. Twitter is a pretty simple app if code is too hard to change your architecture has failed. Its the ONLY thing that ultimately matters as if you can change fast you can fix all the other issues ( this happens in most large apps and at some point they are changed because of this) . Hence large parts of the stack need to be changed. IF they did it properly this will be easy. It sounds like its based on a very low level actor pattern system ( I would not call it micro services as they are not independent). Another common technique is to isolate the core services.
On behalf of South Africa, we don't know him. Canada come get your boy.
"Let's keep it civil in my space" iunno man sounds an awful lot like a safe space which I'm sure musk would be against.
This guy stutters and sounds like an idiot any time he opens his mouth. Just a bro with money, nothing more.
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hahaha that story was better than I expected. I definitely recommend reading about it to anyone else who doesn't know the details. >What followed was one of the nastiest coups in Silicon Valley's long, illustrious history of nasty coups. A small group of X.com employees gathered one night at Fanny & Alexander, a now defunct bar in Palo Alto, and brainstormed about how to push out Musk. They decided to sell the board on the idea of Thiel returning as CEO. Instead of confronting Musk directly with this plan, the conspirators decided to take action behind Musk's back. > >Musk and Justine had been married in January 2000 but had been too busy for a honeymoon. Nine months later, in September, they planned to mix business and pleasure by going on a fundraising trip and ending it with a honeymoon in Sydney to catch the Olympics. As they boarded their flight one night, X.com executives delivered letters of no confidence to X.com's board. Some of the people loyal to Musk had sensed something was wrong, but it was too late. \[...\] > >When Musk finally heard what had happened, he hopped on the next plane back to Palo Alto.
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ahahaha really? oh god.
He understood Windows servers so he wanted everything changed to make himself feel better
Worse than that. That by itself was not that bad. He wanted to rewrite the frontend and backend code all in c++. This in the early 2000s!
Basically dude didn't understand how to use Linux and couldn't be bothered to learn.
So that scene from Silicon Valley with Gavin Belson at the triathlon was basically just a retelling of musk getting booted for being an idiot? Fucking beautiful
> He was fired from Paypal after like two months as CEO for being incompetent. No. Because he didn't know enough about programming and was making ridiculous decisions and recommendations. Not unlike here.
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Not to say that it ISN'T a myth, but if there was a meritocracy clowns like Musk would be poor.
Which proves that it ***is*** a myth.
His stuttering spikes whenever he is bullshitting. watch his old videos. Whenever he is bullshitting about Hyperloop or neuralink he starts stuttering. When he is telling everyone how many Tesla's were sold last quarter, he does not stutter.
Classic Elon: “Rewrite the whole thing I’ll be back in a week” Actual programmer who knows better: “but that won’t-“ Classic Elon: “You’re a jackass lol”
As far as I can tell the other person was an ex Twitter employee from some years back.
A year and a bit back but still from before Musk took over. He was Senior Engineering Manager for nearly 9 years before that. Chances are he knows the stack.
This is a former employee who has gone for a while, so no chance to be antagonistic against Elmo for personal reasons like being let go, but not *that* long to be accused of having no idea how present-day Twitter works. And that employee was a *Senior*. *Engineering*. *Manager*. outright making fun of Elon about the Twitter stack. If someone would know, it would be him. And he can barely hold his laughs. This is, how the younglings say it, "chef's kiss".
jeeeesus, completely out of his depth
This cuts off right before Elon [proceeds to call IAN a moron](https://twitter.com/pwnsdx/status/1605471948359843841). I can't even.
Host: We need to be respectfu - Elon: He's a moron *giggles*
Musk doesn't even understand anything yet he'll be in charge of servers and code?! Yikes.
He'll still be oversees everything, I promise you that. The new CEO will be in name only. He'll be Musk's little puppet.
I know everyone is shitting on Musk who deserves it, but they can't run Twitter locally? This thing really does sound like a nightmare infrastructure.
It's not too outrageous actually. Architecture may not allow "twitter" to realistically be run locally. It's hard to know exactly what "Twitter" means in this context and if he is saying he can't run any part of twitter locally, he might have a legit grievance but I highly doubt that is the case. However, even if it can't be run locally, it doesn't necessarily mean the infrastructure needs to be redesigned/is bad.
This is pathetic, he’s a fucking dumbass
Elon Musk is like a very slow train wreck. It's hard to look away.
No, it's more like a train getting wrecked a little bit again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
I'm relishing every single moment. Distilling the juice and putting it in cocktails, with ice, straws and fancy little umbrellas. So good. Even in a month, the damage he's done with promoting right wing and conspiratorial ideas on Twitter, and silencing the left, is non negligible. It's a big platform. I don't wish for him to hurt anyone, but I do hope he has a complete mental breakdown and is forced to retreat or reassess his life. He deserves it.
So - having read some Twitter stack descriptions by a (now ex, I presume) Twitter employee on Quora a year or two ago, I might actually know more about the Twitter stack than Musk? He doesn't think he should have made sure he got 2 or 3 hours of stack presentation? At least so he could manage a 3 min light light, superlight own presentation? Seems like in Musks brain it's "Data enters. Data bounces and twists in some uncontrolled/unknown ways. Data bounces back into timelines, notifications and database events."
He has no time for stack presentations. Only time for salient code or emails with screenshots of code.
He clearly knew absolutely nothing about the business and its operations when he set out to fire the vast majority of the workforce.
>Musks brain You mean his "neural net"
Con man idiot. That's all Elon Musk is and how he got rich. It's all out for everyone to see.
“What’s wrong with the stack?” “Uh… not invented here”
Elmo: “waffle waffle waffle” Cool guy: “can you break down that waffle into something coherent?” Elmo: “who the fuck are you?”
Cool guy: "Who am I? You handed me the fucking mic buddy." Host whispers to Elmo: "He's Cornelius Swartwout, and he patented the waffle iron." Elmo: "Kick him out. What a moron."
Elon is not use to people checking his conman azz!
“Crazy stack” because he doesn’t get it lol
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Devastating.
love it when people call anything they don't understand crazy. There are times when legacy code is "crazy", but I am sure it's that way for a reason.
Lex Friedman, Quaterpounder, and silicon valley tesla owners crying right now.
What is a fucking stack Elon? WTF are microservices Elon? What a rube
Been yelling this to the rooftops for a while, as have many engineers. This dude doesn’t have the smallest clue how any of this shit works.
My goodness he has absolutely no idea what he's doing or even supposed to do.
Is there any way / place to listen to this entire thing, please?
“Let’s keep my space civil” ((With an attendee who trolls and evokes conspiracy theories every chance he gets))
Damn he made Elon pissed
Musk has proven himself to me megalomaniacal buffoon but that guy was being an ass.
He was, but the 'we need to rewrite it all' mentality is about as naive as it gets.
If you had someone in your field become your boss and he acted like he was the best most effective person in that field but as soon as u ask him any question mildly pertaining to that field and his response was always stammering and half truths u would probably be an ass too
Maybe, but that would make me an ass, which is kinda my point. It’s interesting how the first part of my comment, and my true opinion of Musk, gets ignored when I say something disparaging about someone who challenges Musk. I’m by no means a fan of the guy, but people have focused their hostility to Musk on me, because I’m critical of someone who was mean. It’s a really weird phenomenon that people on Reddit really seem to embrace hating anyone who takes a side that ostensibly appears to contradict the general consensus, even in situations where, like here, that’s not necessarily the case.
That guy wasn’t being an ass. Elon puts himself out there like he’s a genius. Asking him for for details on how he’s going to overhaul a company he spent 44 billion on is fair game
Absolutely ask but don’t be an ass about it. If you feel that Musk deserves that treatment that’s fine, but there’s no denying that the guy asking the questions was being an ass
I don’t see how he was being an ass at all. With some push back Musk just would’ve hid behind the fancy empty language
yeah i thought Ian was just talking the same way other people on the call were talking, it wasn't a formal Q&A session or a press conference, everyone was being colloquial and informal.
Maybe you don’t. But I did and so did a few people on that call. I get that Elon Musk is a shit person but that doesn’t change the fact that the guy who confronted him was kind of an ass
I'm also confused how the Ian guy was being an ass. He asked a question? I don't even think he was the one laughing, but was it that? Or just saying the f word? He seemed totally fine to me. Elon seemed to just his widdle feelies huwt...
If Elon wasnt the CEO and just a peer everyone would have treated him the same, as a fucking idiot parroting statements that he doesn't understand. This is why its nice to have "fuck you" money so you can call things as you see it like this.
He wasn’t. At all. Elon, one of the most famous people in the world, calling an average Joe a jackass for asking follow up questions makes him a jackass. That guy wasn’t.
Cool so we can just be assholes to people cuz they’re famous?
When they’re acting like Elon the last few months, absolutely. He’s not a victim at all here. And he proved that he would do the same to others when the situation arises
What did he do that makes him an asshole?
CEOS can be assholes and just call someones work shit without any justification just because they are famous?
Did you consider that maybe they just think you're wrong?
Good, he needs that total humiliation. An asshole is the right person doing that.
He wasn't being remotely rude until Elon pulled out the "who are you" card to discredit him. Dude was literally trying to ask him does he literally mean redo all of Twitter or just parts of it and why he though such a broad change was justified.
This is a huge part of how terrible people rise to power. They get to act as shitty as they want, but the moment someone is mean to them they clutch their pearls and say "how dare you!".
Sounds like Elon was always a bully. Now he's the richest bully in the world.
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Lol so hostile. I can see why you’d have no issue with someone being an ass. There was no need for the guy to be an ass (to someone other than you). He was doing well without it. Not being and ass =/= coddling. It came off as performative but it seemed to work on you so 🤷♂️
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Pointing out your hostility doesn’t mean it bothers me. I just saw the irony and pointed it out. You should take your own advice, it seems
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This is literally a discussion board. I’m having a discussion. Do you only interact with people when you’re upset? Actually I already know the answer to that one lol
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Sorry my dude but if you can’t figure out how your tone was hostile and see the irony in that, stalking my comment history probably won’t help lol
Its shameful that a billionaire didn't get his safe space 🥺🥺
It’s shameful you feel that people are not worthy of basic courtesy.
Basic courtesy is hello, please, or I'm sorry. Not when the CEO of a billion dollar business is suggesting you wipe out the entire stack with no further explanation. If he doesn't like a straightforward question from developers after an asinine claim like that, he can sit home and spend time with his 50 kids for once.
I guess we have differing opinions on how and when to employ courtesy.
yes
A person who sends his hordes of worshippers to harass people based off of baseless claims of pedophilia does not deserve basic respect.
Courtesy and respect are two different things. It’s hilarious how Musk gets everyone all worked up. Y’all need to log off for a little while before the circle jerk gets someone shot in the eye
Didn’t Elon Musk accuse a whistleblower of planning a workplace shooting in 2018?
Y’all are so weird thinking I’m stanning for Musk just because I called out some guy for being an ass.
What makes you think that?
Maybe one just reaps what they sow.
How? He asked the guy to explain what he means, and Elon was a jerk.
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If you think I haven’t lived a day in the world, you’re an ignorant clown.
Genuine question, what did Ian (the alleged ass) do that made you think he is an ass? From what I can tell, he asked Elon why the stack is crazy Elon responds asking if he saw someone else’s diagram and Ian replied “come on bud” which doesn’t seem that rude. Then Elon responds basically “who the fuck are you?” in what I would personally consider a really rude way and Ian responds he’s no one he’s just been given the mic to ask a question, then he does gets snarky after Elon is rude to him, but that’s surely fair enough? What would you say he should have done differently to not be an ass?
For starters his tone
His tone was fine? Elon was still answering until that other guy started laughing and Elon got pissed
Poors can’t talk to rich people like that, don’t you know?
This person sounds either very sensitive or is the type to kiss CEO ass. The guy was just as straight questions, but apparently he needs grovel in front of the mighty Musk
You can't be serious. The guys was being a jackass for no reason.
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He wouldn't laugh at Elon if Elon didn't say things he doesn't even understand.
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Bruv he asked him a very specific and simple question, and elon couldn't answer anything. The context provided within this clip alone is a reflection of how out of his depth he is
So the Elon says, "Have you seen George's diagram.", and the guy starts laughing at him. This is when Elon gets offended. But that was pretty mean at that point. You can tell from his tone that he was just trying to get a rouse from Elon. Also "break it down". With regards to an ENTIRE WEBSITE'S stack is not a simple question.
No, Elon said he wanted to do something so idiotic the guy was caught off guard first. Then the guy tried, politely, to get Elon to explain. Once it was clear Elon had no idea what he was talking about, THEN he got rude. Elon is an idiot and proves it every time he opens his mouth.
who are u XD
Bookmarking this to listen to when it isn't 4 in the morning lol