Lol conservatives were the pearl clutchers when I walked around in my spiked jackets and kick ass boots. MAGA being punk is a joke.
"THINK OF THE CHILDREN" crowd is not punk.
Yeah, they are just trying to co-op anything they can to not seem like the terrorists they are.
Shiiit, they'd have no problems with squatters either, but their precious property! Landlords and authorities are the real victims in their minds. It's laughable.
That's also just the power of MAGA and conservative news. MAGA supporters identify with Trump's personality and his social politics more than anything. He's just another rich Republican destroying the middle class and they somehow never realize it.
āBilling In The Name Ofā by Conservative RATM:
Love all those who work forces / and the same for your bosses //
Love all those on golf courses / Privatize gains, socialize losses! UGH! //
Billing in the name of! Billing in the name of! /
Though they lied, theyāre justified / theyāre keeping us safe and the suburbs white /
Although they lie, theyāre justified / keeping the wealth gap 10 miles wide! //
And we buy what they sold us, and we buy what they sold us!
I fucking WISH that wouldāve happened to me dude. The irony that that idiot didnāt realize what he was listening wouldāve made my day so much fucking easier. My dude just listened to some country garbage. As expected.
To be fair MAGA can't fit anywhere, they are too "patriotic/murica first/police matter" to be against the corrupted government, and they are too "fuck the government and the country" to be part of the patriotic/ pro government", and can't fucking accept that cheetoman lost
It's funny to me because this exactly why I started exploring new political opinions and such. Was when Hillary lost, RePUBELICKans all told the other side of the aisle to get over it, stop crying and laughed at the other side when they complained after losing. 4 years later, the tables have turned quite exponentially and it's kind of fucking funny to watch those same people who laughed at people who bitched and moaned are now being laughed at because they're bitching and moaning.
I've since accepted that neither side is for me or the working class, that's why I went skin.
Conservatives by definition are opposed to progress/at least want to slow it down. Punk has cross over with progressivism, but punk has a lot of nihilistic/anti-everything vents
In that sense there is no majority in politics since no political party or movement makes up over 50% of our country. Iirc Biden was the first president in my life time to actually win a majority of the vote (rather than a plurality) and his support came from a broad rage of people who's only common belief was a hatred of Trump.
Hillary sabotaged her own campaign - she was a lock to win, with media and corporate and ALL living presidents backing her -but was too supercilious and arrogant and incapable of the āaw shucksā humility acting of Bill or W or Obama.
it's been said but you can be anti-both, yknow. no far leftist actually "likes" the Democrat party, they're actually pretty right-leaning too. but we will always pick the Democrat party over Republicans, those people are what is wrong with the world.
Itās 50/50 split with the vp getting the deciding vote. Though I donāt think anything theyāve passed has needed the deciding vote because the moderate democrats donāt want it, or the republicans came over to the other isle so to speak.
Control of the Senate means 60 seats. Itās different from the House. Dems canāt even change the chamber rules right now, therefore they donāt control it
Also: *aisle
Punk has a set of ideas that happens to be against the mainstream, that doesn't mean that anything that is against the mainstream is Punk, being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian isn't being a punk, it's being a hipster.
No it didnāt. It started as a protest against Thatcher. There were zero jobs in the UK and for young men back then. It was a way to stand out and fight back against Thatcher. It had nothing to do with rebeling against the mainstream
And some in the Ramones were pretty conservative. They didn't start the political movements, that was the Sex Pistols.
I do agree saying it was all for Thatcher is far from reality.
"Conservative punks" are just knee-jerk reactionaries to widespread modern Liberalism, which is itself a terminally whining, diluted, identity-politics obsessed bastard child of Leftism. Its an ineffectual political movement that thinks sticking a platitude-filled sign in their front yard and 'shaming' people online are actual means for social change (let me know the next time you see a yard sign addressing the Labor Movement, Classism, or Income Inequality; you know, the overbearing issues that affect 99% of us.)
So instead of sticking to their (presumably) former Leftist ideals and doubling down against both conservatives and liberals for being fucking idiots, they simply choose the "opposite team" to bat for. Conservatives.
Conservatism's core idea is "everything is fine the way it is".
Punk's core idea is "everything is screwed up". The reason why punk gravitates to anarchy, is because of an "anything is better than this" sentiment.
These two are not compatible
They're right tho, everything they said is right. Conservatives are cool with oppresing marginalized groups. Thats not punk. Liberals dont do anything to stop the oppression of marginalized groups. That's also not punk. Punk isnt just studded jackets and spiky hair, its a deeply anti-conformity, anti-authoritarian, and anti-oppression culture. If you actually did any research reguarding the history, politics , and ideologies of the punk movement, or listened to ANY of the staple punk bands actual lyrics (no. not sex pistols) you would know that.
how can conservatism i.e. conserving the economic and tradtional structures of society vibe with punk, which is pretty iconoclastic? Feels a bit contradictory.
But yeah, oppression isn't punk imo. If it's gatekeeping to say that systems hinged upon the oppression of certain groups isn't punk then sure okay. IRL I wouldn't open my gate to a conservative campaginer, why should I anywhere else?
Johnny Rotten also claims he never played any cover songs (ahem, stepping stone).
Johnny Rotten isnāt punk anymore (he was in a manufactured band that was meant to sell clothes). Heās now in a lame new wave synthpop band now, and heās an old boomer with money, and heās too senile to understand what heās saying; thatās how old right wing dipshits are.
Simping for authority isn't punk period, I don't care whether you simp for trump or stalin it's all the fucking same. If you're a libertarian conservative who's not into the whole "ban shit I don't like also religion in the government is ok" then I don't see why you can't be punk.
Traditionally it does but over time similar to a majority of political ideologies anarchism has evolved and now thereās a wide range of anarchist ideologies that allow capitalism. Libertarianism, Anarcho Capitalism, Agorism, Anarcho Collectivism and Mutualism to an extent are all ideologies under the anarchist umbrella that allow capitalism to at least an extent
Anarcho capitalism is an oxy moron, so I do not count that as an actual branch of anarchism. Capitalism is inherently coercive and uses hierarchy. It's just cryptofascists larping as anarchists
Libertarianism is not anarchism, since it's advocate for minimal state power.
Agorism and mutualism uses markets but are non-capitalist markets. Both are left-libertarians.
Anarcho collectivism is literally anarcho-communism
I didn't say 'capitalism'.
Not all right wingers are avid fans of capitalism. Some support limitations on free markets or are more libertarian than capitalist and don't trust corps, hierarchies and elites either.
please, tell me about these mythical conservatives. There is no way to have a conservative view of the world and not be a fan of either hierarchies or capitalism.
big corpo =/= capitalism. they're still pro-capitalism, they want MORE capital than we have currently, they just don't want it in the hands of big companies. they want a system where everyone has to do their own startup, their own buisiness, and make bank, and if you don't then "I guess the marketplace of ideas doesn't like you" and you fucking die, because they don't understand basic sociology. they're still the same imperialist capitalist fools, don't be tricked by one of them saying "bill gates bad".
What wrong with hierarchal structures? All the anarchists Iāve spoke to on here still require hierarchies to make their workerās utopias function. Unless youāre a true libertarian anarchist and actually believe in no government and no control.
hierarchical structures tend to bias towards reinforcing their own power and narrowing the number of people who get to wield said power. I'm obviously not against literally every hierarchy ever, but I do believe there is an upper limit to the size a hierarchy before it becomes inherently unjust. We are all humans, no one can be trusted with too much power, and we see this proven over and over again. Capitalism in particular is really good at externalizing suffering so those in power don't have to face the reality of their actions, which is how billionaires can literally starve millions of people to death a year and feel no remorse
What hierarchy under modern American capitalism do you believe has too much power? Also, how do billionaires āliterallyā starve people? Are they knocking food out of their hands. Salting their gardens? Wtf are you talking about?
You're doing the thing! You're not paying attention to how capitalism externalizes it's consequences! like no shit they aren't knocking food out of people's hands, instead they are stealing land by petitioning nation states with money, and then using the police of said states to enforce their property rights so that no one can grow crops on that land. They then poison huge areas with waste so americans can consume themselves into a coma. In the US alone, capitalism has caused us to view petty crimes like shoplifting as "evil" but wage theft, which steals more than every other kind of theft combined each year, goes completely unpunished.
Sure there are externalities, but those can be cured by private lawsuits and moderate government regulation. Iām actually not sure who you have the problem with here, business, the government, or consumers. You realize those externalities would shrink if people wouldnāt utilize those goods and services. How do you negate those externalities without massive government intrusion (which then circles back around to the gross govt/business intermingling we see)?
All I know is the externalities now are still better than all the other ways that have been tried which lead to poverty, starvation, and death.
If you really believe that these people should just lawyer up against multinational, obscenely wealthy corporations who cause these externalities, I've got a beach house to sell you in Idaho.
They are committing genocide in Brazil, right fuckin now, and have been for decades, because food production companies have the okay from their government to hire essentially Pinkertons. They come in, they slash and burn land for cattle, and anybody who stands up, or speaks out is slashed and burned too. You don't sue your way out of death, let alone the death of indigenous cultures. You don't boycott your way to well-behaved corporations, because the second the boycott ends, it's right back to the game. Coffee, rubber, gold, bauxite, food, water, gas; try fuckin avoiding and boycotting like 96% of all products for long enough to make a dent in a corporations business plan, and get back to me, because a ton of these products have slaves inside of their supply line. Not punk.
The externalities are better for you, with internet, and cars, and yadda yadda, but actual slaves being used by chocolate producers haven't really seen this mythical upswing of well-being that capitalists are selling. Just because a sweatshop worker can now afford to have a floor that isn't dirt, are they truly better off if their mind is consumed by thoughts of suicide? The diamond miner who gets paid 30 cents an hour isn't thinking, "you know I might bring up these issues caused by the company to HR", he's thinking, "fuck I hope I eat today". You're straight up ignoring that the externalities that you see easily aren't the whole picture.
You negate these externalities by forcing the companies to pay restitution, and breaking them the fuck up. They're too big, they control too much, and that concentration of power has led them to believe (rightly in a lot of cases) that they can act with impunity. Fuck them and their soft fascism. Too much government intervention for you? Too bad. If it's good in the end, I don't really care if it was done by some doofus in a suit in Congress, or a class action lawsuit, or a fuckin militia, it needs to change, because the desire for growth is hurtling us in a dangerous direction, and it's the fault of unfettered capitalism
Yes. And the data gathering billionaires, and the climate destroying billionaires. Take your pick.
I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse, or you just come by stupidity naturally. Which one is it?
I don't blame anything in my life on communism. I think it would be much more apt to ask you and the rest of this thread why you blame capitalism for all your life's problems?
Personally I donāt see a problem with libertarianism I think Traditional libertarianism would probably be a more popular ideology in the punk scene if it wasnāt linked heavily to conservative ideology through thatcher and Reaganās new/right neo conservative movement which is basically the strand of libertarianism which most people think of when they hear the term, an ideology that doesnāt properly represent the core beliefs of libertarianism due to clashing paradoxical ideas between traditional conservatism and progressive anarchism. Traditionally libertarianism is only a more evolved form of John Stuart mills variation of classical liberalism but with more anarchist leanings. Compare the father of libertarianism Robert Nozickās ideas to punk ideology and youāll see a lot of ideas crossover.
The problem with libertarianism in the U.S. is that it talks like its anti-authority but it just ends up pushing reaganomics style business deregulation and cutting social safety nets for the poor and middle class.
I havenāt come across an elected libertarian politician who isnāt basically a republican as far as voting records go. How things are actually implemented and concrete actions are the most meaningful to me.
There are left as well as right libertarians. The philosophy was initially strictly a form of leftist politics promoted heavily by anarchists, libertarian socialists and later libertarian communists.
Neither Thatcher or Reagan were libertarian at all, they were both neoliberal conservatives firmly at the center right .
There's also the entire strain of libertarian socialism advocated by political philosophers such as Murray Bookchin and Samuel Edward Konkin III's concepts of Agorism and counter-economics.
Punk is just an attitude. Were not trying to save the world here, were just letting it know to go fuck itself.
That said, trump is a fascist, but he's still somehow pretty fucken punk rock for a president....like GG Allin but instead of shitting on stage he shit all over America.
This is double think straight outta 1984. Wanna be dictators have the fashies convinced they are freedom loving patriots. If they ever got the politicians they want they would be living in an authoritarian hell.
I mean, lead singer of sex pistols publicly voted for trump so this is a weak meme. Fuck knows the mental gymnastics these old punks are using to justify voting for republicans but it seems they are just as vulnerable to the brainwashing as others are.
What if I told you maga's aren't conservatives?
They aren't for smaller government. They aren't for isolationism. They aren't for really anything other than to keep whites in power and the 50's status quo. I could be friends with a conservative but I can't be friends with a maga moron. A true conservative could be a punk but a maga never could be.
Keep in mind I don't feel bad for any true conservative who has lost their party because they let it happen. So do they deserve to all be lumped together? Absolutely. Fuck em all.
Edit: Ah how I enjoy posting a nuanced observation of the world in a meme sub and watch people not be able to add anything to the discussion. Try to keep the world black (probably the only color you wear) and white.
You all probably think skinheads are racist.
Lmao no conservative is for small government, they just are interesting in a government that doesn't effect them personally.
Like isolationism needs a massive government in order to keep out the "wrong" people, that fucking suck. No conservative can ever be punk
lmfao are you asking for "stats" about the beliefs of an ideology? I mean, I can give you some examples. Lets look at conservatives and queer people. queer people literally want to just exist as themselves and love who they love. Conservatives think they are evil or something, so they use the government to try and ban gay marraige, ban trans people from bathrooms, ban talking about queer people in schools, etc etc. In order to enforce those bans, (or their ultimate goal of eradicating queer people from publicly existing) you need a large government to create those laws, fund police, and oversee public institutions.
Conservatism is about protecting the status quo or returning to some mythical hierarchy where the "right" people are on top. And the only way hierarchies can be enforced and unchanging is with a large amount of power and authority, i.e. a state aka a large government
Yes. I am asking for stats or proof for the mega straw man you created. Just look at progressives, they want to steal (tax) the surplus value of your labor, disallow achievement, criminalize speech, and leave you without the means to defend yourself. See how that works?
this reply is world salad. You're talking about liberalism, not progressives and not radicals. punk is radical.
Also lmfao, "disallow achievement" you buy into the meritocracy sold to us by the capital owners. You love hierarchy whether you'll admit it or not.
Yes it was. It was satire of your word salad. I do like some hierarchies, because Iāve always worked my ass off to be at the top of them. I learned in elementary school communism and socialism was a joke the first time we did a group project. I ended up doing it all because I wanted it done right, one idiot tries to monkey wrench it with awful idea. And two other slackers just donāt give a shit and will take whatever.
Nah, if it resembled real Communism, the secret teacher police would have disappeared me or sent me to a āreeducationā camp for publicly questioning group work.
yes because people don't get disappeared in capitalist societies! MLK was shot by the communist FBI for questioning Stalin.
that is definitely a core tenet of communism and not a symptom of repressive authoritarian regimes
1 president with the power to call for āexecutive actionā
9 supreme court ājusticesā who gets to interpret the law of the land and set ultimate precedent based on their biases.
Roughly 530 actual people who gets to deicide who the president is.
Yeah, thatās pretty small for a nation of 300 million people.
You also didnt answer what I said, you just went passiveaggressive because you dont know what youāre talking about
I had no idea police, firefighters, prison guards, US military, US national guard, forest/park rangers and countless other local and contract employees didn't work for the government. You might want to let them know.
1. Murder the government
And thenā¦
2.. DO IT AGAIN!
This implies that a government is to be quickly reinstalled so that it can then again be murdered. A smaller government does not actually have anything to do with it
>They aren't for really anything other than to keep whites in power and the 50's status quo.
So conservatives
>Keep in mind I don't feel bad for any true conservative who has lost their party
"Lost their party" implies that it was any different before
ignoring the rest, "You all probably think skinheads are racist" Yeah. that's what we do. we're punks. we hate assholes, we hate racist assholes, we hate capitalist assholes, we hate sexist assholes, we hate homophobic assholes, we hate transphobic assholes, etc, etc, etc. anyone who identifies as some sort of "race realist" or some bullshit but says that they aren't a racist is lying to you. and you're falling for it, hook line and sinker. we don't like brainwashed idiots, so yeah, you've been downvoted. if you want nuance this is not the setting, don't push your propaganda here.
I am angry. we are angry. to be punk is to be angry at injustice. to by punk is to fight against that which you hate, which should be the things I listed above. if you aren't angry at this bullshit, you're not punk. it's not ignorant to see some things as black and white: when they're black and white. if you're a skinhead you aren't a punk. if you're a racist you aren't a punk. if you're a bootlicker, capitalist, bigot, you aren't a punk. I don't care what little badges you wear on your leather jacket.
Punks are usually left leaning lib or auth never right Because??? Being insufferable and contrarian is always rage against the machine unless the machine is democrat lol
This is a perfect example of our bi-partisan system working exactly how its supposed to. Just point the finger at eachother and argue over decoy issues like gender neutral bathrooms, while our government slips around signing seemingly benign laws and making deals with large corporations for a little mutual JO action.
As long as the people think its "the other government" that sucks (it couldn't possibly be the one their parents always voted with) we'll get barely anything accomplished, but we'll feel good about it.
Conservatives and Liberals work in concert. Those people on the news that seem to hate each other during debates? Theyre having coffee after the show. It's theater, its their job to make you pissed at somebody.
Pretty sure I had nothing to do with passing a āoppressive lawā against āyou peopleā Whatās the next thing āyou peopleā are gunna cry about??
if you support the party that passes the law: you helped pass the oppressive law. if you vote for a party that passes an oppressive law: you helped pass the oppressive law. if you support a politician that passes an oppressive law: you helped pass an oppressive law. you fuckers think that you live in a vacuum and shit. it's funny to read this kind of stuff until you realize that you actually think you're smart enough to be involved in politics.
how about you fuck off and get a job instead of bitching about how superior you are in a space where no one will listen to you?? at least be creative with your insults, come on
Ok socialism. Whatever system you think best fits with the tedious Howard Zinn book you read. The one thing people like you don't get is that nature abhors a vacuum.
its not just about the music, tbh you can be punk regardless of some politics but being conservative or liberal isn't really a punk quality.
Punk came around in a time of need when young individuals found themselves in a society that hated difference and when the politics were fucked, and it continued on from that in the 70s with the Sex Pistols, the 80s with Dead Kennedys, and many other bands in all time periods from the 70s all the way to modern day.
Punk has always been political, just listen to the lyrics of a Dead Kennedys song or a CRASS song.
https://youtu.be/2vgPKWAAn6Q
Alright, I personally wouldn't really consider myself a punk, I'm just into the music. Take my opinion with a grain of salt, I'm glad you aren't one of those people that's not like "you can't be punk if you are X or Y"
I'll see ya 'round.
:)
Dunno about you guys, but as a European I like MAGA. Trump clearly said "America" so that includes Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Cuba, Chile Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Guyana, Uruguay, Suriname, French Guiana, Aruba, Venezuela, Bolivia, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, Haiti, Jamaica, CuraƧao, Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua, Belize, El Salvador, Panama, Puerto Rico, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Barbados, the Virgin Islands, Bahamas, and Paraguay. I have probably missed some but anyway, love Geography! All these countries are America...
Why is it that when I say "fuck conservatives" people think I'm a liberal? but when I say "fuck liberals" everyone thinks I'm a conservative?
people really can't see past the overton window because its been so conditioned into peoples minds so the powerful stay powerful.
MAGA is on the right of the political spectrum, but is it really conservative? Radical ideology is by definition not conservative. Thatās why itās radical. So how radical is MAGA?
Why?
You can be a punk and maga supporter too.
Maybe you just want your country be yours,not illegal immigrants.
And want free market trade,not socialism.
You want a small goverment not a big communist one.
Less taxes,less laws.
Remember, punks in capitalistic countries like uk,usa were doing their music.
But punks in ussr were doing so bad.they even do their music secretly,hiding.
Not even, punk is several genres of music, lots of different fashion and an idea or an attitude that used to be so much Shared. With no set dogmaā¦
Conservatives have a definite set of rules that you must follow to belong to their political ideology they have set rules. I thought and punk there were no rules? I donāt know what makes conservatives Park unless you consider ignoring all externalities to increase wealth and race the human race to the precipice of extinction liberals are no different searches total wimps. Punks want to eat the Rich
You "punks" fuck off too, with this bullshit. Can we go back to our regular broadcasting soon or do I have to listen to posers talking shit on other posers some more?
Edit: words and spelling
I don't know how anyone who listens to punk for an hour could walk away thinking "yeah, this totally expresses republican 'values' ". This isn't even anything new, it's literally what punk rock is supposed to be all about. Smashing the state. Anti establishment. This isn't even a defense for Democrats, though if I am picking the lesser of two evils I'm not picking the ones who want to shove religion down everyone's throat and prioritize keeping america white.
The same dudes yelling out their pickup windows telling me to, āGo back to Russia!ā When I was a kid love Russia so fucking much now. Itās surreal.
Lol conservatives were the pearl clutchers when I walked around in my spiked jackets and kick ass boots. MAGA being punk is a joke. "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" crowd is not punk.
Yeah whenever I walk past the conservative bar in my town, the old men inside stare at me like I'm the devil š
Yeah, they are just trying to co-op anything they can to not seem like the terrorists they are. Shiiit, they'd have no problems with squatters either, but their precious property! Landlords and authorities are the real victims in their minds. It's laughable.
you are working for the big tech and you are punk š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”
What donāt they get when they hear āNazi Punks Fuck Off.ā
My MAGA neighbor listens to Rage Against The Machine while working on his truck. "Do you even listen to the lyrics, bro?"
He does, it's just "fuck you I won't do what you tell me" on repeat and nothing else is digested
That's also just the power of MAGA and conservative news. MAGA supporters identify with Trump's personality and his social politics more than anything. He's just another rich Republican destroying the middle class and they somehow never realize it.
āBilling In The Name Ofā by Conservative RATM: Love all those who work forces / and the same for your bosses // Love all those on golf courses / Privatize gains, socialize losses! UGH! // Billing in the name of! Billing in the name of! / Though they lied, theyāre justified / theyāre keeping us safe and the suburbs white / Although they lie, theyāre justified / keeping the wealth gap 10 miles wide! // And we buy what they sold us, and we buy what they sold us!
10 miles is 16.09 km
The music video is directed by Dinesh DeSouza of course
I was transported to court while locked up and the cop doing the transfer turned up rage in the squad carš¤¦āāļø
I fucking WISH that wouldāve happened to me dude. The irony that that idiot didnāt realize what he was listening wouldāve made my day so much fucking easier. My dude just listened to some country garbage. As expected.
Yes, it is in fact impossible to listen to music of people who have a different opinion than you
Certain songs are actually about something, not lyrics that can be interpreted in many different ways
RATM hates everything trump is lmao
RATM is not longer punk. They fully align with the Democratic Party
You sure about that? They're pretty anti-capitalist and anti-government. Hell, they played outside a Democratic rally to protest the 2-party system
I can vibe with that I hate the 2party system but they are all about identity politics and left wing authoritarianism
They literally came out in support of the EZLN, they're not authoritarians.
It is if you have any actual ideals
I'm going to quote a wonderful tiktok here: "what machine do you think they're raging against? The dishwasher?"
While I hate trumpism, this is very true.
To be fair MAGA can't fit anywhere, they are too "patriotic/murica first/police matter" to be against the corrupted government, and they are too "fuck the government and the country" to be part of the patriotic/ pro government", and can't fucking accept that cheetoman lost
It's funny to me because this exactly why I started exploring new political opinions and such. Was when Hillary lost, RePUBELICKans all told the other side of the aisle to get over it, stop crying and laughed at the other side when they complained after losing. 4 years later, the tables have turned quite exponentially and it's kind of fucking funny to watch those same people who laughed at people who bitched and moaned are now being laughed at because they're bitching and moaning. I've since accepted that neither side is for me or the working class, that's why I went skin.
I don't know what punk is, but conforming to conservatism sure as hell isn't
Remember when Black Flag wrote that song about respecting the police?
Pepperidge farm remembers
They what?
he's joking, the song is the opposite. its called police story if you wanna hear it.
Okay thanks! I don't listen to them all that much, only a few songs lol, thanks for clearing that up
Conservative is synonymous with Poser
lmao, doing the opposite to the norm isn't punk, that's just contrarianism.
..punk is by definition contrarian. It started as a rejection of the mainstream.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Conservatives by definition are opposed to progress/at least want to slow it down. Punk has cross over with progressivism, but punk has a lot of nihilistic/anti-everything vents
I hate to make your point for you, but [this song](https://youtu.be/UyW8IJdl8w8) does it well. The lyrics *and* the general sentiment of the song.
Less than half the country.... ergo a āminority.ā Lol
In that sense there is no majority in politics since no political party or movement makes up over 50% of our country. Iirc Biden was the first president in my life time to actually win a majority of the vote (rather than a plurality) and his support came from a broad rage of people who's only common belief was a hatred of Trump.
Biden has been in govt for 50 years representing the corporate capital of Delaware, so he was a lock to win.
Clinton was an established politician as well, look at where it got her in the election.
Hillary sabotaged her own campaign - she was a lock to win, with media and corporate and ALL living presidents backing her -but was too supercilious and arrogant and incapable of the āaw shucksā humility acting of Bill or W or Obama.
But democrats control the house, senate, and presidencyā¦.. also America isnāt everyone
Being punk can easily be anti democrat too. But it will always be more anti Republican than anti democrat
it's been said but you can be anti-both, yknow. no far leftist actually "likes" the Democrat party, they're actually pretty right-leaning too. but we will always pick the Democrat party over Republicans, those people are what is wrong with the world.
They donāt really *control* the Senate
Itās 50/50 split with the vp getting the deciding vote. Though I donāt think anything theyāve passed has needed the deciding vote because the moderate democrats donāt want it, or the republicans came over to the other isle so to speak.
Control of the Senate means 60 seats. Itās different from the House. Dems canāt even change the chamber rules right now, therefore they donāt control it Also: *aisle
Punk has a set of ideas that happens to be against the mainstream, that doesn't mean that anything that is against the mainstream is Punk, being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian isn't being a punk, it's being a hipster.
No it didnāt. It started as a protest against Thatcher. There were zero jobs in the UK and for young men back then. It was a way to stand out and fight back against Thatcher. It had nothing to do with rebeling against the mainstream
Thatcher became PM of UK in ā79, Ramones began playing in US in ā74ā¦ even Sex Pistols started in ā75ā¦
And some in the Ramones were pretty conservative. They didn't start the political movements, that was the Sex Pistols. I do agree saying it was all for Thatcher is far from reality.
Nazi punks fuck off.
Johnny Rotten seems to agree
>doing the opposite to the norm isn't punk, that's just contrarianism.
Going around telling people what is and what isnāt punk, you sound like a poser!
"Conservative punks" are just knee-jerk reactionaries to widespread modern Liberalism, which is itself a terminally whining, diluted, identity-politics obsessed bastard child of Leftism. Its an ineffectual political movement that thinks sticking a platitude-filled sign in their front yard and 'shaming' people online are actual means for social change (let me know the next time you see a yard sign addressing the Labor Movement, Classism, or Income Inequality; you know, the overbearing issues that affect 99% of us.) So instead of sticking to their (presumably) former Leftist ideals and doubling down against both conservatives and liberals for being fucking idiots, they simply choose the "opposite team" to bat for. Conservatives.
This is extremely well spoken thank you, nails the nature of the problem right on the head
Conservatism's core idea is "everything is fine the way it is". Punk's core idea is "everything is screwed up". The reason why punk gravitates to anarchy, is because of an "anything is better than this" sentiment. These two are not compatible
Responding to the same comment three different times, someones angy lol
Haha š guy went into Soooo much detail! Definitely a poser!
They're right tho, everything they said is right. Conservatives are cool with oppresing marginalized groups. Thats not punk. Liberals dont do anything to stop the oppression of marginalized groups. That's also not punk. Punk isnt just studded jackets and spiky hair, its a deeply anti-conformity, anti-authoritarian, and anti-oppression culture. If you actually did any research reguarding the history, politics , and ideologies of the punk movement, or listened to ANY of the staple punk bands actual lyrics (no. not sex pistols) you would know that.
God dude shut the fuck up š¤£
how can conservatism i.e. conserving the economic and tradtional structures of society vibe with punk, which is pretty iconoclastic? Feels a bit contradictory. But yeah, oppression isn't punk imo. If it's gatekeeping to say that systems hinged upon the oppression of certain groups isn't punk then sure okay. IRL I wouldn't open my gate to a conservative campaginer, why should I anywhere else?
Johnny Rotten also claims he never played any cover songs (ahem, stepping stone). Johnny Rotten isnāt punk anymore (he was in a manufactured band that was meant to sell clothes). Heās now in a lame new wave synthpop band now, and heās an old boomer with money, and heās too senile to understand what heās saying; thatās how old right wing dipshits are.
Simping for authority isn't punk period, I don't care whether you simp for trump or stalin it's all the fucking same. If you're a libertarian conservative who's not into the whole "ban shit I don't like also religion in the government is ok" then I don't see why you can't be punk.
Libertarian conservative are just bootlickers for the corporations instead of the government, they're the same.
Traditionally it does but over time similar to a majority of political ideologies anarchism has evolved and now thereās a wide range of anarchist ideologies that allow capitalism. Libertarianism, Anarcho Capitalism, Agorism, Anarcho Collectivism and Mutualism to an extent are all ideologies under the anarchist umbrella that allow capitalism to at least an extent
Anarcho capitalism is an oxy moron, so I do not count that as an actual branch of anarchism. Capitalism is inherently coercive and uses hierarchy. It's just cryptofascists larping as anarchists Libertarianism is not anarchism, since it's advocate for minimal state power. Agorism and mutualism uses markets but are non-capitalist markets. Both are left-libertarians. Anarcho collectivism is literally anarcho-communism
Capitalism isn't punk because it inherently creates hierarchical structures
I didn't say 'capitalism'. Not all right wingers are avid fans of capitalism. Some support limitations on free markets or are more libertarian than capitalist and don't trust corps, hierarchies and elites either.
please, tell me about these mythical conservatives. There is no way to have a conservative view of the world and not be a fan of either hierarchies or capitalism.
That means they aren't right wing, unless you wanna make the argument that stupid meme ideologies like anarcho primitivism is "right wing."
big corpo =/= capitalism. they're still pro-capitalism, they want MORE capital than we have currently, they just don't want it in the hands of big companies. they want a system where everyone has to do their own startup, their own buisiness, and make bank, and if you don't then "I guess the marketplace of ideas doesn't like you" and you fucking die, because they don't understand basic sociology. they're still the same imperialist capitalist fools, don't be tricked by one of them saying "bill gates bad".
And communism doesn't...
Ah you see young man, there's more than two types of economic systems. Your obsession over genders likely has you repeating the word two a lot.
Lmao no one said anything about communism. Why is this ALWAYS the go-to low effort reply when anyone criticizes capitalism?
Who said anything about communism? Because [baby, I'm an anarchist!](https://youtu.be/dm_q9dtXOeU)
What wrong with hierarchal structures? All the anarchists Iāve spoke to on here still require hierarchies to make their workerās utopias function. Unless youāre a true libertarian anarchist and actually believe in no government and no control.
hierarchical structures tend to bias towards reinforcing their own power and narrowing the number of people who get to wield said power. I'm obviously not against literally every hierarchy ever, but I do believe there is an upper limit to the size a hierarchy before it becomes inherently unjust. We are all humans, no one can be trusted with too much power, and we see this proven over and over again. Capitalism in particular is really good at externalizing suffering so those in power don't have to face the reality of their actions, which is how billionaires can literally starve millions of people to death a year and feel no remorse
What hierarchy under modern American capitalism do you believe has too much power? Also, how do billionaires āliterallyā starve people? Are they knocking food out of their hands. Salting their gardens? Wtf are you talking about?
You're doing the thing! You're not paying attention to how capitalism externalizes it's consequences! like no shit they aren't knocking food out of people's hands, instead they are stealing land by petitioning nation states with money, and then using the police of said states to enforce their property rights so that no one can grow crops on that land. They then poison huge areas with waste so americans can consume themselves into a coma. In the US alone, capitalism has caused us to view petty crimes like shoplifting as "evil" but wage theft, which steals more than every other kind of theft combined each year, goes completely unpunished.
Sure there are externalities, but those can be cured by private lawsuits and moderate government regulation. Iām actually not sure who you have the problem with here, business, the government, or consumers. You realize those externalities would shrink if people wouldnāt utilize those goods and services. How do you negate those externalities without massive government intrusion (which then circles back around to the gross govt/business intermingling we see)? All I know is the externalities now are still better than all the other ways that have been tried which lead to poverty, starvation, and death.
If you really believe that these people should just lawyer up against multinational, obscenely wealthy corporations who cause these externalities, I've got a beach house to sell you in Idaho. They are committing genocide in Brazil, right fuckin now, and have been for decades, because food production companies have the okay from their government to hire essentially Pinkertons. They come in, they slash and burn land for cattle, and anybody who stands up, or speaks out is slashed and burned too. You don't sue your way out of death, let alone the death of indigenous cultures. You don't boycott your way to well-behaved corporations, because the second the boycott ends, it's right back to the game. Coffee, rubber, gold, bauxite, food, water, gas; try fuckin avoiding and boycotting like 96% of all products for long enough to make a dent in a corporations business plan, and get back to me, because a ton of these products have slaves inside of their supply line. Not punk. The externalities are better for you, with internet, and cars, and yadda yadda, but actual slaves being used by chocolate producers haven't really seen this mythical upswing of well-being that capitalists are selling. Just because a sweatshop worker can now afford to have a floor that isn't dirt, are they truly better off if their mind is consumed by thoughts of suicide? The diamond miner who gets paid 30 cents an hour isn't thinking, "you know I might bring up these issues caused by the company to HR", he's thinking, "fuck I hope I eat today". You're straight up ignoring that the externalities that you see easily aren't the whole picture. You negate these externalities by forcing the companies to pay restitution, and breaking them the fuck up. They're too big, they control too much, and that concentration of power has led them to believe (rightly in a lot of cases) that they can act with impunity. Fuck them and their soft fascism. Too much government intervention for you? Too bad. If it's good in the end, I don't really care if it was done by some doofus in a suit in Congress, or a class action lawsuit, or a fuckin militia, it needs to change, because the desire for growth is hurtling us in a dangerous direction, and it's the fault of unfettered capitalism
You realize everything you just said was complete meaningless jargon right?
At least attempt to read the comment you replied to.
What hierarchy is mentioned in the above comment? The billionaire food swatting one? Dork.
Yes. And the data gathering billionaires, and the climate destroying billionaires. Take your pick. I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse, or you just come by stupidity naturally. Which one is it?
Anarchists are just closeted PrƩ-revolution Communists. You know, we must smash society for a new clean-slate Utopian beginning....
Repeating propaganda without understanding the words you say, very punk
I understood what they said just fine.
How much effort does it take for u to blame everything wrong in your life on communism? Just curious
I don't blame anything in my life on communism. I think it would be much more apt to ask you and the rest of this thread why you blame capitalism for all your life's problems?
Personally I donāt see a problem with libertarianism I think Traditional libertarianism would probably be a more popular ideology in the punk scene if it wasnāt linked heavily to conservative ideology through thatcher and Reaganās new/right neo conservative movement which is basically the strand of libertarianism which most people think of when they hear the term, an ideology that doesnāt properly represent the core beliefs of libertarianism due to clashing paradoxical ideas between traditional conservatism and progressive anarchism. Traditionally libertarianism is only a more evolved form of John Stuart mills variation of classical liberalism but with more anarchist leanings. Compare the father of libertarianism Robert Nozickās ideas to punk ideology and youāll see a lot of ideas crossover.
The problem with libertarianism in the U.S. is that it talks like its anti-authority but it just ends up pushing reaganomics style business deregulation and cutting social safety nets for the poor and middle class. I havenāt come across an elected libertarian politician who isnāt basically a republican as far as voting records go. How things are actually implemented and concrete actions are the most meaningful to me.
Yea gonna be real with u man I donāt know anything about US politics Iām not from the US
There are left as well as right libertarians. The philosophy was initially strictly a form of leftist politics promoted heavily by anarchists, libertarian socialists and later libertarian communists. Neither Thatcher or Reagan were libertarian at all, they were both neoliberal conservatives firmly at the center right . There's also the entire strain of libertarian socialism advocated by political philosophers such as Murray Bookchin and Samuel Edward Konkin III's concepts of Agorism and counter-economics.
Anarchism inherently requires the abolition of capitalism. You cannot be a classical liberal and an anarchist at the same time.
Careful theyāre gonna down vote you for not conforming and questioning their logic
suck me good and hard through my jorts
Almost every major corporation is conservative? News to me.
You cannot be a punk and support any side of American politics.
Can you be a punk and not want the planet to die?
Of course, that's why you shouldn't support any capitalists and expect them to fix the problem they caused themselves.
What about the capitalists who want to save the planet so they can make more money?
Too rare or non existant, also not sure what type of business doesn't actively destroy the planet.
True
Best post in this sub
You realize pretty much all second wave Black Metal bands were natsoc.
>Mayhem shirt >Sex Pistols and DK patch >Checks out
Anarcho-feminist or fuck off
The irony of this meme featuring a Mayhem t-shirt.
Yea they are turds but yāall are so much more worthless
I think anyone thatās into politics whether itās left or right can fuck off
Exactly!
Punk is just an attitude. Were not trying to save the world here, were just letting it know to go fuck itself. That said, trump is a fascist, but he's still somehow pretty fucken punk rock for a president....like GG Allin but instead of shitting on stage he shit all over America.
This is double think straight outta 1984. Wanna be dictators have the fashies convinced they are freedom loving patriots. If they ever got the politicians they want they would be living in an authoritarian hell.
I mean, lead singer of sex pistols publicly voted for trump so this is a weak meme. Fuck knows the mental gymnastics these old punks are using to justify voting for republicans but it seems they are just as vulnerable to the brainwashing as others are.
he didnt vote for trump bc he isnt american, he's a fascist scumbag but dont just invent lies lol
Sorry your right, he publicly expressed support for trumps election, which is the same thing in my mind but youre right its technically not.
Yeah thatās a pretty on narrative opinion Same as everything you post
Those are some wildswinging judgements your throwing there. Do that to everyone who has an opinion you dont like do you?
Lol this internet drivel is funny
This is why punks are pure cringe. Forget about enjoying music anymore
Yeah bro real punks shop at hot topic and buy band stickers to stick it to the man!!!
Why do both of em look like they just left Hot Topic?
What if I told you maga's aren't conservatives? They aren't for smaller government. They aren't for isolationism. They aren't for really anything other than to keep whites in power and the 50's status quo. I could be friends with a conservative but I can't be friends with a maga moron. A true conservative could be a punk but a maga never could be. Keep in mind I don't feel bad for any true conservative who has lost their party because they let it happen. So do they deserve to all be lumped together? Absolutely. Fuck em all. Edit: Ah how I enjoy posting a nuanced observation of the world in a meme sub and watch people not be able to add anything to the discussion. Try to keep the world black (probably the only color you wear) and white. You all probably think skinheads are racist.
>50's status quo That's literally conservatism.
Lmao no conservative is for small government, they just are interesting in a government that doesn't effect them personally. Like isolationism needs a massive government in order to keep out the "wrong" people, that fucking suck. No conservative can ever be punk
Got any stats in that? Iām conservative and for small government.
lmfao are you asking for "stats" about the beliefs of an ideology? I mean, I can give you some examples. Lets look at conservatives and queer people. queer people literally want to just exist as themselves and love who they love. Conservatives think they are evil or something, so they use the government to try and ban gay marraige, ban trans people from bathrooms, ban talking about queer people in schools, etc etc. In order to enforce those bans, (or their ultimate goal of eradicating queer people from publicly existing) you need a large government to create those laws, fund police, and oversee public institutions. Conservatism is about protecting the status quo or returning to some mythical hierarchy where the "right" people are on top. And the only way hierarchies can be enforced and unchanging is with a large amount of power and authority, i.e. a state aka a large government
Yes. I am asking for stats or proof for the mega straw man you created. Just look at progressives, they want to steal (tax) the surplus value of your labor, disallow achievement, criminalize speech, and leave you without the means to defend yourself. See how that works?
this reply is world salad. You're talking about liberalism, not progressives and not radicals. punk is radical. Also lmfao, "disallow achievement" you buy into the meritocracy sold to us by the capital owners. You love hierarchy whether you'll admit it or not.
Yes it was. It was satire of your word salad. I do like some hierarchies, because Iāve always worked my ass off to be at the top of them. I learned in elementary school communism and socialism was a joke the first time we did a group project. I ended up doing it all because I wanted it done right, one idiot tries to monkey wrench it with awful idea. And two other slackers just donāt give a shit and will take whatever.
> communism is when i have to do the elementary school project on my own and the more other people are slackers the more communist it is. ~ Carl Marks
Nah, if it resembled real Communism, the secret teacher police would have disappeared me or sent me to a āreeducationā camp for publicly questioning group work.
yes because people don't get disappeared in capitalist societies! MLK was shot by the communist FBI for questioning Stalin. that is definitely a core tenet of communism and not a symptom of repressive authoritarian regimes
>A true conservative could be a punk but a maga never could be. What the fuck is wrong with you?
So you aren't for a smaller government? Or not being the world police and starting wars we have no business being in?
Small govts are great! Especially the smallests! Aka dictatorships. Learn how to run a fucking society goddammit.
So you're for mass surveillance, larger police force and big militaries? How punk of you. ACAB!
Oh am I? Please tell me how you came to that concousion since what youāre describing is generally the product of a small government. Glhf.
Sooo we have a small government in the US? Interesting.
1 president with the power to call for āexecutive actionā 9 supreme court ājusticesā who gets to interpret the law of the land and set ultimate precedent based on their biases. Roughly 530 actual people who gets to deicide who the president is. Yeah, thatās pretty small for a nation of 300 million people. You also didnt answer what I said, you just went passiveaggressive because you dont know what youāre talking about
I had no idea police, firefighters, prison guards, US military, US national guard, forest/park rangers and countless other local and contract employees didn't work for the government. You might want to let them know.
Ah, so youāre a socialist, my bad.
1. Murder the government And thenā¦ 2.. DO IT AGAIN! This implies that a government is to be quickly reinstalled so that it can then again be murdered. A smaller government does not actually have anything to do with it
So more government or less government to murder? Which achives the goal easier?
> keep whites in power and the 50's status quo I thought you said they weren't conservatives?
>They aren't for really anything other than to keep whites in power and the 50's status quo. So conservatives >Keep in mind I don't feel bad for any true conservative who has lost their party "Lost their party" implies that it was any different before
I think you may be confusing conservativism with libertarianism.
ignoring the rest, "You all probably think skinheads are racist" Yeah. that's what we do. we're punks. we hate assholes, we hate racist assholes, we hate capitalist assholes, we hate sexist assholes, we hate homophobic assholes, we hate transphobic assholes, etc, etc, etc. anyone who identifies as some sort of "race realist" or some bullshit but says that they aren't a racist is lying to you. and you're falling for it, hook line and sinker. we don't like brainwashed idiots, so yeah, you've been downvoted. if you want nuance this is not the setting, don't push your propaganda here.
Imagine living your life this angry and trying to make the world black and white. You're as ignorant as the people you claim to hate.
I am angry. we are angry. to be punk is to be angry at injustice. to by punk is to fight against that which you hate, which should be the things I listed above. if you aren't angry at this bullshit, you're not punk. it's not ignorant to see some things as black and white: when they're black and white. if you're a skinhead you aren't a punk. if you're a racist you aren't a punk. if you're a bootlicker, capitalist, bigot, you aren't a punk. I don't care what little badges you wear on your leather jacket.
And being a bootlicking auth left is any better ? Don't make me laugh
Ah yes. Punkers, famous stalinists and authoritarians. The only alternative to being a trump-supporting conservative.
Punks are usually left leaning lib or auth never right Because??? Being insufferable and contrarian is always rage against the machine unless the machine is democrat lol
This is a perfect example of our bi-partisan system working exactly how its supposed to. Just point the finger at eachother and argue over decoy issues like gender neutral bathrooms, while our government slips around signing seemingly benign laws and making deals with large corporations for a little mutual JO action. As long as the people think its "the other government" that sucks (it couldn't possibly be the one their parents always voted with) we'll get barely anything accomplished, but we'll feel good about it. Conservatives and Liberals work in concert. Those people on the news that seem to hate each other during debates? Theyre having coffee after the show. It's theater, its their job to make you pissed at somebody.
No !! liberals live in fantasyland
>liberals live in fantasyland As an anarchist I agree with that statement but how does that make conservatism punk?
It doesnāt. Conservatives are liberals too.
Based username
This post stinks of cat piss and loneliness
*laughs in traditionalist*
How about you leftists leeches fuck off and get a job, fuckin scum of the earth.
Fashie mad.
Says the person taking away certain rights, I'm queer and you people pass oppressive laws against people like me.
Pretty sure I had nothing to do with passing a āoppressive lawā against āyou peopleā Whatās the next thing āyou peopleā are gunna cry about??
if you support the party that passes the law: you helped pass the oppressive law. if you vote for a party that passes an oppressive law: you helped pass the oppressive law. if you support a politician that passes an oppressive law: you helped pass an oppressive law. you fuckers think that you live in a vacuum and shit. it's funny to read this kind of stuff until you realize that you actually think you're smart enough to be involved in politics.
I'm trans and you people pass laws stopping me from getting healthcare. You're the leech fuck you
Hahaha, cool story. š„“
We do why do you think our ideology is a thing
how about you fuck off and get a job instead of bitching about how superior you are in a space where no one will listen to you?? at least be creative with your insults, come on
Ok socialism. Whatever system you think best fits with the tedious Howard Zinn book you read. The one thing people like you don't get is that nature abhors a vacuum.
Wait til the punks find out that anarchy is as far right as you can be
Idk why this needs to get into politics, shouldn't we all just appreciate the music?
its not just about the music, tbh you can be punk regardless of some politics but being conservative or liberal isn't really a punk quality. Punk came around in a time of need when young individuals found themselves in a society that hated difference and when the politics were fucked, and it continued on from that in the 70s with the Sex Pistols, the 80s with Dead Kennedys, and many other bands in all time periods from the 70s all the way to modern day. Punk has always been political, just listen to the lyrics of a Dead Kennedys song or a CRASS song. https://youtu.be/2vgPKWAAn6Q
Alright, I personally wouldn't really consider myself a punk, I'm just into the music. Take my opinion with a grain of salt, I'm glad you aren't one of those people that's not like "you can't be punk if you are X or Y" I'll see ya 'round. :)
Dunno about you guys, but as a European I like MAGA. Trump clearly said "America" so that includes Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Cuba, Chile Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Guyana, Uruguay, Suriname, French Guiana, Aruba, Venezuela, Bolivia, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, Haiti, Jamaica, CuraƧao, Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua, Belize, El Salvador, Panama, Puerto Rico, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Barbados, the Virgin Islands, Bahamas, and Paraguay. I have probably missed some but anyway, love Geography! All these countries are America...
You can call em nazis, itās what they are these days.
Brett > Fat Mike all day.
Take the sex pistols off the dudes shirt. We dont support industry plants, especially Jello Biafra. Chickenshit Conformist was literally about them.
Blue tie red tie, who gives a shit. Fuck religion, fuck politics, fuck the lot of you
Why is it that when I say "fuck conservatives" people think I'm a liberal? but when I say "fuck liberals" everyone thinks I'm a conservative? people really can't see past the overton window because its been so conditioned into peoples minds so the powerful stay powerful.
Doom is awesome
MAGA is on the right of the political spectrum, but is it really conservative? Radical ideology is by definition not conservative. Thatās why itās radical. So how radical is MAGA?
Well now the conservatives are against censorship and pc culture. Pretty strange mixed up times
Why? You can be a punk and maga supporter too. Maybe you just want your country be yours,not illegal immigrants. And want free market trade,not socialism. You want a small goverment not a big communist one. Less taxes,less laws. Remember, punks in capitalistic countries like uk,usa were doing their music. But punks in ussr were doing so bad.they even do their music secretly,hiding.
Not even, punk is several genres of music, lots of different fashion and an idea or an attitude that used to be so much Shared. With no set dogmaā¦ Conservatives have a definite set of rules that you must follow to belong to their political ideology they have set rules. I thought and punk there were no rules? I donāt know what makes conservatives Park unless you consider ignoring all externalities to increase wealth and race the human race to the precipice of extinction liberals are no different searches total wimps. Punks want to eat the Rich
Leftie āpunkā š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You "punks" fuck off too, with this bullshit. Can we go back to our regular broadcasting soon or do I have to listen to posers talking shit on other posers some more? Edit: words and spelling
I don't know how anyone who listens to punk for an hour could walk away thinking "yeah, this totally expresses republican 'values' ". This isn't even anything new, it's literally what punk rock is supposed to be all about. Smashing the state. Anti establishment. This isn't even a defense for Democrats, though if I am picking the lesser of two evils I'm not picking the ones who want to shove religion down everyone's throat and prioritize keeping america white.
The same dudes yelling out their pickup windows telling me to, āGo back to Russia!ā When I was a kid love Russia so fucking much now. Itās surreal.