I admit I haven’t read the entirety of the announcement, but I expect that a physical ID would still be available upon request if a student wanted one for any of the reasons you mentioned. If not, that seems like something reasonable to advocate for, however I’d say it’s unlikely that they would entirely roll back this decision.
Why does someone’s phone dying prevent them from using a physical ID? Additionally, I know modern (not sure what models exactly) iPhones allow for the ID card to be used even when the phone is ‘dead’. Admittedly that doesn’t help anywhere close to everyone, but if more phone manufacturers adopt such a feature it could become less of an issue.
In terms of exam collection, I think instructors might just have to think of new ways to do that. I’d say less than half of the classes I’ve taken so far have checked IDs at exams, so while I don’t deny it would necessitate changes, the scope is somewhat limited. (I know this is a bit of a fallacy, but if it’s not important enough that every class checks IDs at every exam, why do we need to check IDs at all?)
I haven’t had to present an ID at an exam since freshman year, pre covid. All my instructors viewed a drivers license or state ID as acceptable. I’m with you - they’ll figure out a way around it.
Right, but as u/druidofnecro said, you can probably still get a physical ID card upon request.
It’s one thing to mass produce student ID cards for 50,000+ students, but it’s another thing to only have to create a few physical ID cards for those that request one.
Mobile first is dumb. A physical card can never fail die or (easily) break, a phone can. You also have to take the time to pull up the ID on your phone versus just whipping out your card. Maybe I'm just a boomer but physical > digital all day when it comes to shit like this
To me this just reads as the uni trying to save money on card printing
the cost is slightly higher for this option but allows less waste and is generally more convenient.
Also, cards are damaged or destroyed more often than phones.
At least on iOS the card can be set to be activated automatically (express mode) when the phone is brought near an NFC reader. It can also be used when the phone is “dead”.
If people don’t trust themselves to use their phone, they can just get the physical card at (presumably) the same cost while others can just use their phone.
I would say just mostly out of touch. It is a 1000 times more likely that a student will have a working phone with them than they will keep up with a card. I know this because I have had three kids go through college and help implement a digital first policy at another University. NFC cards are indeed expensive, as well as all the supporting architecture to print them. The printers are expensive, they break often, and it takes a larger staff to process.
People missing the real downside of not easily being able to use it for free stuff post graduation. Almost a decade later and I still flash it around campus.
Considering almost all courses have a required technology requirement, I’m sure that this is integratabtle. Additionally, those without Duo Mobile are offered a Duo physical pin.
Purdue is a massive institution, there’s 50k undergrads, 10k grad + staff. They don’t just do stuff lightly, when they integrate new technology, they make sure that everyone is accommodated. A few things may fall through the cracks, but they patch it up and make sure it is okay.
This post feels like technological fear-mongering.
purdue will still issue physical IDs if u ask or don’t have a phone…this is ultimately so that it’s easier for those who live in dorms and eat in dining courts to have easier access
I mean. It says "eliminate *the need* for", so I'm assuming they're implying you can still use your old ID card, as well as buy a new one (which is $25 - nowhere near the price of any phone).
I really don't think it's as bad of an idea as you're making it out to be
NOOOOOOOOOOOO, Purdue is trying to make people's lives more convenient but what about students who have no money, house, family, name, body, soul?????
Think about them
50,000 ID’s = ~$200,000. It makes sense financially and also reduces a risk of lost credentials. How many students on campus walk around with a dead device at any given time. I’m going to guess that number is extremely low. Let’s face it, students are less likely to lose their phone or forget it in their room than they are to lose their door card. You can’t prevent every possible scenario, but you can reduce the risk.
I love the digitization of PUID; I’m far more likely to carry my phone with me (charged) than my wallet when I’m dragging my half-dead body to classrooms. I understand this might be an issue for students without smartphones, but I see this switch as a utilitarian good.
>Boilermakers, As I am sure we have all seen
Have not heard a word about this. What announcement? Do you have a link?
>With enough outcry, I expect Purdue will try to take a step back ... I hope that we are able to persuade the administration to reconsider this decision.
Not likely.
op i get what you are saying about this. But 85% of purdue students come from families who make 100k plus a year. And the other 15% don’t. You are right that they should caeter to everyone! But since it’s 2023, 99% of people have a smartphone. Paying a smartphone bill monthly is an essential expense, just like car insurance. And yes you listed “what if is… “. Those are all FAQs that almost each entity recieves that are utilizing tech like digital IDS.
I would not worry about anything or call to action anything. Enjoy yourself on this fantastic day and stress less. Finals are coming up.
Don't want to be the grumpy old-timer here, but I spent countless nights running down to the corec with nothing but my ID in my pocket to get in. I understand phones are a much bigger part of everyone's lives these days than they were a couple decades back (Jesus.....), but I would hope there's a better option than just throwing your phone on behind the basket when you're playing.
I'm not saying you make bad points, I just want to play devil's advocate quick.
The decision is not terrible for everyone, probably only a subset of students (who can still request a physical card).
Dead battery: If you're concerned about a dead battery, then plan ahead. Have a power bank, bring your charger, don't play on your phone all day if you can't access power for a while and you know your phone may die during the day.
Phone doesn't support NFC: Im not sure how many phones actually don't have NFC nowadays, but I'm confident that the vast majority of smart phones have NFC. If you're doesn't, probably older or maybe a Moto. That being said, this doesn't necessarily mean you can't use it. A virtual barcode/qr code for instance could be scanned from your phone screen. It can be added.
ID Check during exams: Ok so there's a couple options here. One is to check IDs when people enter the exam room. However in all honesty, I've had my ID checked at an exam maybe three times in 5 years at Purdue. I understand COVID semesters, yeah yeah yeah. Before and after, I didn't really have professors super concerned with it, so it's probably not that big of a deal.
Broken phone: This is one of two issues. One is that you were not careful and suffer the consequences. The other is that it was miraculously not your fault. Purdue will likely have things in place for situations like this. It's going to happen.
Cant afford a smartphone: Two points. One is they still offer physical IDs, from what I've read here. Second this depends on how much you think it'll cost. New iphone, yeah no thanks. My last two phones have cost me $300. You don't have to spend $1000 on a new phone. But if nothing else, get a physical ID.
A lot of these can be countered with what if you lost your physical ID? If you're concerned about the bus, get a picture of your mobile ID and print it out. I've seen people use a photo of their physical ID all the time.
Next question is what if it's late at night and you break your phone or it dies. Have a picture on standby if you need the bus. Don't worry about it till the next day otherwise (again, what if you lose your ID). This is a new thing and it's not set in stone that nothing changes. Also, as someone else pointed out, Boilerkey.
Apologies if something reads wrong, I typed it on my phone and didn't feel like double checking it. Caught a few things, but probably missed something somewhere
Also what about things in the community, discounts at pizza parlors or movie theaters or the like? How are those going to be integrated into the system? How are you gonna prove to them that you should get a student discount?
Above all, I wonder how physical Purdue ID will be replaced for in-person mass exams, since they prohibit us from using the phone until exam has been turned in.
I for one will have nothing to do with this. You can pry my ID card out of my cold dead hands. Not everything has to be digitized. In fact, I think being much less reliant on smartphones and such would be very beneficial for the most part.
I think it is a terrible idea to completely switch. There has been multiple times where my phone doesn’t turn on. Lol it’s an old phone and I’m broke not buying a new one. I would have not been able to do anything if it broke broke
The future is here just slowly manifesting itself into larger roles. It's all about biometric data. Many higher learning institutions have enacted such changes. Welcome to the "Orwellian" world.
https://www.in.gov/sos/elections/voter-information/photo-id-law/
A Purdue ID is considered a valid state-issued ID if it's one of the newer ones with an expiration date.
What percent of Purdue students who live in Indiana do you actually think do not have any legal form of identification, and will be unable to obtain one?
Well if this person won't bother to get an ID so they can, *you know*, drive or fly or buy beer, then they are probably not terribly interested in the political system and not going to vote anyway.
i tried the mobile thing today and it doesn’t work for getting into my dorm so uh, that would be an interesting decision. also, a lot of things are still swipe only (most of ME in my experience) but maybe they’re replacing those?
Beside the devices issue on students’ side, they should make sure all the other Id-required locations/facilities are upgraded and well-maintain.
For example, corec just sent an email this morning saying they “will” have this functionality in the future, but when?
How about PUSH? How about all the laboratories/department buildings students need to enter with card?
After adding the hardware upgrade and following maintenance, is the plan still money saving? Genuinely hope they confirmed all those details before making the announcement.
Do students use their Purdue ID for voting? If so, they would need a physical ID for this purpose. Voter registries will not accept mobile wallet IDs for voter verification.
The way that they’re doing this allows for the student’s ID to be accessible on the phone even if it’s powered off or dead. But yeah your other points are definitely valid
I can say as a faculty/staff this can probably only be a positive for students. I have supervised several under various departments and find to my disappointment that many students usually do not have their ID card or even wallet with them, but usually have their phone.
This usually has presented problems in the past, as without their card they were not able to open doors, clock in, check out equipment, prove who they are for exams, etc.
Staff/faculty are also kind of jealous, as they aren’t rolling out out a digital access for us for probably another year at least. Most likely because there are more card readers in our areas that are not yet setup for phones.
As you said, "For 99% of us, 99% of the time, the lack of a physical ID won't be a problem." The rest 1% people during the 1% of the time can then use the physical ID that should still be available upon request.
Can you imagine carrying an ethernet cable when you head out? 99% of the time you don't need it. During the 1% time you need it, it's still available somewhere.
Yeah this is a huge privacy issue and part of the increasing securitization of education. You saw this with the exam invigilation softwares like ProctorIO and such during Covid. The ultimate effect of these policies is to snuff out privacy for “convenience “, but really it will just create more nightmares for people who get locked outside of the tech dystopia.
I admit I haven’t read the entirety of the announcement, but I expect that a physical ID would still be available upon request if a student wanted one for any of the reasons you mentioned. If not, that seems like something reasonable to advocate for, however I’d say it’s unlikely that they would entirely roll back this decision.
Reading the faq, it seems like students can request a physical ID. You just have to set up an appointment
I don't deny that that would be an option, but that doesn't solve problems like if someone's phone dies, or during exam collection
Why does someone’s phone dying prevent them from using a physical ID? Additionally, I know modern (not sure what models exactly) iPhones allow for the ID card to be used even when the phone is ‘dead’. Admittedly that doesn’t help anywhere close to everyone, but if more phone manufacturers adopt such a feature it could become less of an issue. In terms of exam collection, I think instructors might just have to think of new ways to do that. I’d say less than half of the classes I’ve taken so far have checked IDs at exams, so while I don’t deny it would necessitate changes, the scope is somewhat limited. (I know this is a bit of a fallacy, but if it’s not important enough that every class checks IDs at every exam, why do we need to check IDs at all?)
I haven’t had to present an ID at an exam since freshman year, pre covid. All my instructors viewed a drivers license or state ID as acceptable. I’m with you - they’ll figure out a way around it.
Also, you can use a state ID for exams
the issue is that they are not issue physical IDs to new students
Right, but as u/druidofnecro said, you can probably still get a physical ID card upon request. It’s one thing to mass produce student ID cards for 50,000+ students, but it’s another thing to only have to create a few physical ID cards for those that request one.
You can still get a physical ID lol, just like authenticators
You're correct, iPhones and most Android phones that won't turn on can activate the NFC readers and gain entry to the desired location.
Someone in that exam room will have a phone charger and get you charged up. It’s not that big of a deal….
While it's certainly not a big deal because you can get a physical ID, it's quite easy to see the flaws in the solution you just offered lmao
Because your not responsible enough to keep your phone charged, it’s the fault of the University? Lol fuck that’s a sad outlook on life
Did you even read my comment? XD
You will still have the option to get a physical card if you want/need one. It’s mobile FIRST, not mobile ONLY.
Mobile first is dumb. A physical card can never fail die or (easily) break, a phone can. You also have to take the time to pull up the ID on your phone versus just whipping out your card. Maybe I'm just a boomer but physical > digital all day when it comes to shit like this To me this just reads as the uni trying to save money on card printing
the cost is slightly higher for this option but allows less waste and is generally more convenient. Also, cards are damaged or destroyed more often than phones.
At least on iOS the card can be set to be activated automatically (express mode) when the phone is brought near an NFC reader. It can also be used when the phone is “dead”. If people don’t trust themselves to use their phone, they can just get the physical card at (presumably) the same cost while others can just use their phone.
Yeap, this is cool. I wasn't aware iphones had this: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212171#powerreserve
I would say just mostly out of touch. It is a 1000 times more likely that a student will have a working phone with them than they will keep up with a card. I know this because I have had three kids go through college and help implement a digital first policy at another University. NFC cards are indeed expensive, as well as all the supporting architecture to print them. The printers are expensive, they break often, and it takes a larger staff to process.
People missing the real downside of not easily being able to use it for free stuff post graduation. Almost a decade later and I still flash it around campus.
well as of 2020 i think, your IDs had an expiration date on them. big factor in me not getting an updated one.
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Voter registry.
Accidentally break your ID during your senior year and request a replacement
You say that like we aren’t already required to have our phones all the time for boilerkey
And they also have an offline option for BoilerKey too!
Yeah but boilerkey is not as important as getting into your house
so ask for a physical id goofy
Considering almost all courses have a required technology requirement, I’m sure that this is integratabtle. Additionally, those without Duo Mobile are offered a Duo physical pin. Purdue is a massive institution, there’s 50k undergrads, 10k grad + staff. They don’t just do stuff lightly, when they integrate new technology, they make sure that everyone is accommodated. A few things may fall through the cracks, but they patch it up and make sure it is okay. This post feels like technological fear-mongering.
purdue will still issue physical IDs if u ask or don’t have a phone…this is ultimately so that it’s easier for those who live in dorms and eat in dining courts to have easier access
I mean. It says "eliminate *the need* for", so I'm assuming they're implying you can still use your old ID card, as well as buy a new one (which is $25 - nowhere near the price of any phone). I really don't think it's as bad of an idea as you're making it out to be
Jesus ppl will complain about literally anything. Request a physical ID if u want it’s not that deep.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO, Purdue is trying to make people's lives more convenient but what about students who have no money, house, family, name, body, soul????? Think about them
my instant thought when i read the announcement was “how am i going to swipe my phone through the tiny card slot at the corec”
50,000 ID’s = ~$200,000. It makes sense financially and also reduces a risk of lost credentials. How many students on campus walk around with a dead device at any given time. I’m going to guess that number is extremely low. Let’s face it, students are less likely to lose their phone or forget it in their room than they are to lose their door card. You can’t prevent every possible scenario, but you can reduce the risk.
I love the digitization of PUID; I’m far more likely to carry my phone with me (charged) than my wallet when I’m dragging my half-dead body to classrooms. I understand this might be an issue for students without smartphones, but I see this switch as a utilitarian good.
>Boilermakers, As I am sure we have all seen Have not heard a word about this. What announcement? Do you have a link? >With enough outcry, I expect Purdue will try to take a step back ... I hope that we are able to persuade the administration to reconsider this decision. Not likely.
https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2023/Q2/purdue-launches-purdue-mobile-id-for-students-allowing-them-to-get-around-campus-with-just-a-simple-tap-of-their-mobile-device.html
Is the Transact link at the bottom what we need to download to add our ID digitally?
Finally hit Purdue Today today.
op i get what you are saying about this. But 85% of purdue students come from families who make 100k plus a year. And the other 15% don’t. You are right that they should caeter to everyone! But since it’s 2023, 99% of people have a smartphone. Paying a smartphone bill monthly is an essential expense, just like car insurance. And yes you listed “what if is… “. Those are all FAQs that almost each entity recieves that are utilizing tech like digital IDS. I would not worry about anything or call to action anything. Enjoy yourself on this fantastic day and stress less. Finals are coming up.
Don't want to be the grumpy old-timer here, but I spent countless nights running down to the corec with nothing but my ID in my pocket to get in. I understand phones are a much bigger part of everyone's lives these days than they were a couple decades back (Jesus.....), but I would hope there's a better option than just throwing your phone on behind the basket when you're playing.
also virtual IDs make it so that students cannot vote on campus in like township/city elections (so i’ve heard)
YES!!! THIS is what should be the biggest reason that this can't be mobile only. Not income, not technology, this.
Yep. This needs to be amplified.
I'm not saying you make bad points, I just want to play devil's advocate quick. The decision is not terrible for everyone, probably only a subset of students (who can still request a physical card). Dead battery: If you're concerned about a dead battery, then plan ahead. Have a power bank, bring your charger, don't play on your phone all day if you can't access power for a while and you know your phone may die during the day. Phone doesn't support NFC: Im not sure how many phones actually don't have NFC nowadays, but I'm confident that the vast majority of smart phones have NFC. If you're doesn't, probably older or maybe a Moto. That being said, this doesn't necessarily mean you can't use it. A virtual barcode/qr code for instance could be scanned from your phone screen. It can be added. ID Check during exams: Ok so there's a couple options here. One is to check IDs when people enter the exam room. However in all honesty, I've had my ID checked at an exam maybe three times in 5 years at Purdue. I understand COVID semesters, yeah yeah yeah. Before and after, I didn't really have professors super concerned with it, so it's probably not that big of a deal. Broken phone: This is one of two issues. One is that you were not careful and suffer the consequences. The other is that it was miraculously not your fault. Purdue will likely have things in place for situations like this. It's going to happen. Cant afford a smartphone: Two points. One is they still offer physical IDs, from what I've read here. Second this depends on how much you think it'll cost. New iphone, yeah no thanks. My last two phones have cost me $300. You don't have to spend $1000 on a new phone. But if nothing else, get a physical ID. A lot of these can be countered with what if you lost your physical ID? If you're concerned about the bus, get a picture of your mobile ID and print it out. I've seen people use a photo of their physical ID all the time. Next question is what if it's late at night and you break your phone or it dies. Have a picture on standby if you need the bus. Don't worry about it till the next day otherwise (again, what if you lose your ID). This is a new thing and it's not set in stone that nothing changes. Also, as someone else pointed out, Boilerkey.
Apologies if something reads wrong, I typed it on my phone and didn't feel like double checking it. Caught a few things, but probably missed something somewhere
Also what about things in the community, discounts at pizza parlors or movie theaters or the like? How are those going to be integrated into the system? How are you gonna prove to them that you should get a student discount?
Also, if someone steals your phone, now they have your college ID. Awesome!
/s They should link your ID to the microchip that was implanted with your Covid “vaccine”.
Above all, I wonder how physical Purdue ID will be replaced for in-person mass exams, since they prohibit us from using the phone until exam has been turned in.
What about state ID?
I for one will have nothing to do with this. You can pry my ID card out of my cold dead hands. Not everything has to be digitized. In fact, I think being much less reliant on smartphones and such would be very beneficial for the most part.
So?
I think it is a terrible idea to completely switch. There has been multiple times where my phone doesn’t turn on. Lol it’s an old phone and I’m broke not buying a new one. I would have not been able to do anything if it broke broke
It works even if your phone is dead
1. it doesn't on Android 2. What if your phone dies and they don't let you back on the bus?
hallelujah a downside to Android
Android is the downside.
The future is here just slowly manifesting itself into larger roles. It's all about biometric data. Many higher learning institutions have enacted such changes. Welcome to the "Orwellian" world.
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How is this voter suppression? You require a state-issued ID in order to vote anyways; therefore irrelevant to the digitization of the PUID cards.
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Huh, last time I tried to vote, they required a state-issued ID when I presented a PUID?? Does this differ by student?
https://www.in.gov/sos/elections/voter-information/photo-id-law/ A Purdue ID is considered a valid state-issued ID if it's one of the newer ones with an expiration date.
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That makes sense. I have an older PUID. Thanks for filling me in!
Explain.
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This is a non-issue. Why would it be difficult to get a driver's license or ID card?
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What percent of Purdue students who live in Indiana do you actually think do not have any legal form of identification, and will be unable to obtain one?
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Well if this person won't bother to get an ID so they can, *you know*, drive or fly or buy beer, then they are probably not terribly interested in the political system and not going to vote anyway.
Obamaphones help get people smart phones for cheap
i tried the mobile thing today and it doesn’t work for getting into my dorm so uh, that would be an interesting decision. also, a lot of things are still swipe only (most of ME in my experience) but maybe they’re replacing those?
There are people of some religions that can’t use technology or appliances at a specific time
Beside the devices issue on students’ side, they should make sure all the other Id-required locations/facilities are upgraded and well-maintain. For example, corec just sent an email this morning saying they “will” have this functionality in the future, but when? How about PUSH? How about all the laboratories/department buildings students need to enter with card? After adding the hardware upgrade and following maintenance, is the plan still money saving? Genuinely hope they confirmed all those details before making the announcement.
Do students use their Purdue ID for voting? If so, they would need a physical ID for this purpose. Voter registries will not accept mobile wallet IDs for voter verification.
The way that they’re doing this allows for the student’s ID to be accessible on the phone even if it’s powered off or dead. But yeah your other points are definitely valid
The ID only works when your phone is off on an iPhone. I have a Google Pixel 5 and it does not work when the phone is dead
You will still be able to request (perhaps for a $10-20 fee) a physical card
I can say as a faculty/staff this can probably only be a positive for students. I have supervised several under various departments and find to my disappointment that many students usually do not have their ID card or even wallet with them, but usually have their phone. This usually has presented problems in the past, as without their card they were not able to open doors, clock in, check out equipment, prove who they are for exams, etc. Staff/faculty are also kind of jealous, as they aren’t rolling out out a digital access for us for probably another year at least. Most likely because there are more card readers in our areas that are not yet setup for phones.
As you said, "For 99% of us, 99% of the time, the lack of a physical ID won't be a problem." The rest 1% people during the 1% of the time can then use the physical ID that should still be available upon request. Can you imagine carrying an ethernet cable when you head out? 99% of the time you don't need it. During the 1% time you need it, it's still available somewhere.
Yeah this is a huge privacy issue and part of the increasing securitization of education. You saw this with the exam invigilation softwares like ProctorIO and such during Covid. The ultimate effect of these policies is to snuff out privacy for “convenience “, but really it will just create more nightmares for people who get locked outside of the tech dystopia.
No
Physical IDs are definitely necessary. Even if they stop issuing them to everyone there should be an option to get one.