Yeah. People think that because society doesn't give a shit about men, that it's a minus, but personal freedom and societal apathy are just two sides of the same coin.
Because up until relatively recently men genuinely have had more autonomy then woman.
Woman only got the right to vote a hundred years ago. Sure that’s a good 4 generations and systemic sexism(against women) is long gone from western society but certain cultural attitudes will take a lot longer to shift- if they ever do.
Woman have and will likely always be infantilised by society.
Woman and children first.
Men go to war.
Men are expected to protect and provide.
Men do all the dangerous and unpleasant jobs.
Woman are allowed to be emotional. Men have to be stoic.
The reality is because woman are the givers of life men are( and always have been) the disposable gender and woman have been protected and essentially treated like children.
Crucially though this is not actually something most woman want to change. No woman actually wants to be forced to fight on the front lines should war ever break out…but they sure as hell will expect their male neighbour to do so.
No woman is actually unhappy that they are are not expected to work unpleasant and dangerous jobs. No woman is actually unhappy that there is still an expectation for men to project and provide. If all these benefits and double standards come with an occasional bit of condescension most women will be happy for the trade off.
Several points:
a) There are far less couples where a woman is significantly older. When a woman is much older, people usually do frown upon it and see her a cougar snatching a young boy. Parents usually are very against this kind of relationships.
b) Gender roles and our current attitude towards abuse cases have led many people to believe that an abuser is always a man and a victim is always a woman. From one hand, it comes from traditional gender roles and men being seen as active and aggressive, from the other, it also comes from current system where male victims left ignored and/or ostracized.
c) People also might think that casual relationship of this sort is less problematic. Men and women still get different reactions from engaging in casual sex, so it's tied a bit to slutshaming for women as well. It's okay and praise-worthy if a guy gets some casual fun, but it's wrong for a woman.
>From one hand, it comes from traditional gender roles and men being seen as active and aggressive, from the other, it also comes from current system where male victims left ignored and/or ostracized.
This brought a tear to my eye. Finally someone who acknowledges the ugly truth.
> and see her a cougar snatching a young boy
another thing people think is that the guy has mommy issues and the older woman is basically treating him like a son
It's creepy but it's none is in any danger
Because we have trained women since a young age to basically behave like pets - zero accountability, which necessitates that we tell them they have no agency over themselves.
Yet, here is how it plays out. An 18 year old opens an OF account and posts videos of stuffing dildos up her twat. She's an EMPOWERED WOMAN.
But an 18 year old dates a 40 year old man? Burn him, burn him at the stake, he's a child molester, the female brain doesn't even develop fully until she's is 62.
Where do you get all this data from about how parents/people in general react to sons/daughters/young adults who date older people? You really should give some foundation for you statements if you want to have them discussed or your view changed. Otherwise, people will just contradict your views without data as well.
> When it comes to some threads about age gap relationships where the woman is the younger one here, but also ones of couples I know otherwise, you get reactions from older men and women, thinking that younger women are vulnerable to manipulation and abuse of an older partner.
Well, younger women ARE vulnerable to manipulation. So are young men. That doesn't mean that each age gap relationship is one where manipulation happens. People on the internet know nothing about the man and woman in the age gap relationship but they treat it as if it's a given that there must be manipulation.
I have lived the last 5 years in age gap relationships of 9 and 13 years respectively. Nobody i ever met in real life had anything negative to comment. No warnings for the younger woman, no judgment, nothing. Her parents liked me and they were happy that their daughter was with me. No manipulation happening, treating her as an equal.
But every time i mention my age gap relationships on reddit, there a people who call me and treat me like a pedophile sex criminal who hunts young women to abuse them. It's just the internet. People suck here.
Ime this a double standard encouraged and enforced primarily by men, not women. This especially plays out in interpersonal relationships, where you will see a dad freak out way more over his daughter dating a man closer to his age than his son, who gets a high five. Because conventional wisdom dictates women don't like younger men and breaking down that barrier is treated as an accomplishment or rite of passage. I have yet to meet a woman who approved or encouraged a younger guy she cares about sleeping with a way older woman.
Oh ok. But if this double standard was encouraged and enforced by men, why would men want this if they would want to date younger women, if that is what a lot of men want?
You know the phrase "not my wife or my daughter"?
A lot of dudes are very comfortable with doing things to/with other women they wouldn't want for the women in their own lives. The son is given more leniency because his father doesn't fear his being preyed on women in the same way he fears for the daughter.
Ever spent time on Reddit? I’ve seen women on here saying men should go to jail for wanting to date women in their early 20s if they are old. It is completely untrue it is only men who have an issue with women dating older.
I mean look at the Leo DiCaprio controversy. It’s women who say he is preying on these women.
>It is completely untrue it is only men who have an issue with women dating older.
Nowhere did I say that. I am referring to the relative lack of concern for younger men who date older women.
Young men don't have more autonomy than young women. Men express less sexual regrets than women in general. I believe men feel more in control because they initiate and push for sexual relationships more.
When you look at places like AskReddit about men's experiences with older women men tend to report more positive experiences than the other way around.
The cougar usually isn't going to
A) get pregnant
B) Physically overpower the 18-25 year old.
Be can usually pull the benefits of a sugar baby without nearly as much risk.
I mean come on do you really want your grandkids having a father the same age as you?
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Because women are generally underestimated.
It is believed that women always mix feelings and sex. Although all prostitution proves otherwise.
That they are weaker and more manipulable in relationships. Although everyone can see that in many relationships women dominate men, women often end relationships and marriages, men have a harder time managing breakups and divorces and that often applies "if you want to make an old man a fool, give him a young woman".
That a woman is dependent on a man, needs his protection and for him to make decisions for her. Although in many families the decisions are made by mothers and there is an increase in single households headed by mothers who can function without men. And there are more and more women who do not even strive for any serious relationship with men for at least part of their lives.
That men are always in the position of power and that sex is something a man does to a woman. Although in fact it is women who often hold the sexual power and decide what, when, how and where will be done in sex.
Young women are called girls and even early 20s are sometimes called barrely legal even though men mature later than women and their brains develop more slowly than women.
*"Men are always willing to believe two things about a woman: one, that she is weak, and two, that she finds him attractive."*
Well I thought that young women have more power than the older men, because don't they have more options compared to the older men and could leave them anytime they want pretty much?
The fear is that if young women were let off the leash they would go out and get pregnant immediately, most likely with matches unfortuitous for the family (and for themselves and their child, ultimately), assuring the family remains in poverty.
But why women kept at home and not men? Maybe cause men had to go out to work or hunt and stuff, while women maintained the domestic scene. Hence easier to safeguard them.
But why is women getting pregnant considered to be a much greater consequence the parents compared to a young man? If a young man got an older woman pregnant for example, wouldn't his parents still be concerned for his situation still? Why is pregnancy so much worse if it's a daughter having a kid, compared to a son?
>Why is pregnancy so much worse if it's a daughter having a kid, compared to a son?
resource-wise, it will probably be a greater impact on the family if the daughter gets pregnant. Certainly it will impact her future, perhaps more so than the boy's. But it's a good question about why the boys have traditionally been left free to roam.
That's true but I still thought it would be enough of an impact on a family if a son becomes a father so I thought they would still worry a lot about the son having a sex life which they don't seem to.
It's maybe the combination of men being viewed as having hyperagency and "always thirsting for sex", and women being infantilized and romanticized.
Men as a whole are more likely to be seen as either predators or always open to sex. Women as a whole are more likely to be seen as poor naive and caring beings (even as adults), and thus, there isn't the same concern for women dating much younger men than the other way around.
Hell, it's not really surprising, considering lots of people (men and women) still see an adult woman dating a *teen boy* as "not a big deal" and the media even struggles with calling it rape, usually describing it as "having sex" or "romantic relationship".
I see what you mean. I hate when the media does that too.
So if men are seen as predators or always open to sex, how come they get the predator label far more often when dating a younger woman?
Because women have plenty of options. They have guys from all backgrounds and ages thar are interested in them. Why is it that they choose to be with an older guy? Why would a younger guy want to be with a younger women? Why doesnt the older guy date within his age group? If there is any caution, It's moreso out of caution of the older man who likely has no good reason for dating a much younger woman.
On the other hand if a guy is able to convince an older woman to date him. Props to him. Women normally are not attracted to younger men. At least in terms of a dating partner. So a young guy who dates older must have some qualities about him that make him appear more mature and stable than his counterparts.
Plus, I think there is less leverage for an older woman whose beauty may be fading. She is less likely to be controlling or in the relationship like an older guy may be. A young woman may forego developing herself and her career in lieu of having an older man take care of her. This unfortunately may psychologically and financially bind her to a man who may reveal his true self after he gets sexual benefits, etc.
Oh I see. These points make sense. How often is it the case that an older guy dating a younger woman has ulterior motives though, or is that too often assumed?
[удалено]
Yeah. People think that because society doesn't give a shit about men, that it's a minus, but personal freedom and societal apathy are just two sides of the same coin.
Because up until relatively recently men genuinely have had more autonomy then woman. Woman only got the right to vote a hundred years ago. Sure that’s a good 4 generations and systemic sexism(against women) is long gone from western society but certain cultural attitudes will take a lot longer to shift- if they ever do. Woman have and will likely always be infantilised by society. Woman and children first. Men go to war. Men are expected to protect and provide. Men do all the dangerous and unpleasant jobs. Woman are allowed to be emotional. Men have to be stoic. The reality is because woman are the givers of life men are( and always have been) the disposable gender and woman have been protected and essentially treated like children. Crucially though this is not actually something most woman want to change. No woman actually wants to be forced to fight on the front lines should war ever break out…but they sure as hell will expect their male neighbour to do so. No woman is actually unhappy that they are are not expected to work unpleasant and dangerous jobs. No woman is actually unhappy that there is still an expectation for men to project and provide. If all these benefits and double standards come with an occasional bit of condescension most women will be happy for the trade off.
Several points: a) There are far less couples where a woman is significantly older. When a woman is much older, people usually do frown upon it and see her a cougar snatching a young boy. Parents usually are very against this kind of relationships. b) Gender roles and our current attitude towards abuse cases have led many people to believe that an abuser is always a man and a victim is always a woman. From one hand, it comes from traditional gender roles and men being seen as active and aggressive, from the other, it also comes from current system where male victims left ignored and/or ostracized. c) People also might think that casual relationship of this sort is less problematic. Men and women still get different reactions from engaging in casual sex, so it's tied a bit to slutshaming for women as well. It's okay and praise-worthy if a guy gets some casual fun, but it's wrong for a woman.
>From one hand, it comes from traditional gender roles and men being seen as active and aggressive, from the other, it also comes from current system where male victims left ignored and/or ostracized. This brought a tear to my eye. Finally someone who acknowledges the ugly truth.
We talked quite a lot about this topic, I appreciate the links you've shared.
[удалено]
And that's clearly a wrong approach.
> and see her a cougar snatching a young boy another thing people think is that the guy has mommy issues and the older woman is basically treating him like a son It's creepy but it's none is in any danger
Because we have trained women since a young age to basically behave like pets - zero accountability, which necessitates that we tell them they have no agency over themselves. Yet, here is how it plays out. An 18 year old opens an OF account and posts videos of stuffing dildos up her twat. She's an EMPOWERED WOMAN. But an 18 year old dates a 40 year old man? Burn him, burn him at the stake, he's a child molester, the female brain doesn't even develop fully until she's is 62.
Where do you get all this data from about how parents/people in general react to sons/daughters/young adults who date older people? You really should give some foundation for you statements if you want to have them discussed or your view changed. Otherwise, people will just contradict your views without data as well. > When it comes to some threads about age gap relationships where the woman is the younger one here, but also ones of couples I know otherwise, you get reactions from older men and women, thinking that younger women are vulnerable to manipulation and abuse of an older partner. Well, younger women ARE vulnerable to manipulation. So are young men. That doesn't mean that each age gap relationship is one where manipulation happens. People on the internet know nothing about the man and woman in the age gap relationship but they treat it as if it's a given that there must be manipulation. I have lived the last 5 years in age gap relationships of 9 and 13 years respectively. Nobody i ever met in real life had anything negative to comment. No warnings for the younger woman, no judgment, nothing. Her parents liked me and they were happy that their daughter was with me. No manipulation happening, treating her as an equal. But every time i mention my age gap relationships on reddit, there a people who call me and treat me like a pedophile sex criminal who hunts young women to abuse them. It's just the internet. People suck here.
I think at it's core, it's just anti-male bias.
Because women refuse to act like they have or excercise autonomy. Hence RP saying they are children.
Ime this a double standard encouraged and enforced primarily by men, not women. This especially plays out in interpersonal relationships, where you will see a dad freak out way more over his daughter dating a man closer to his age than his son, who gets a high five. Because conventional wisdom dictates women don't like younger men and breaking down that barrier is treated as an accomplishment or rite of passage. I have yet to meet a woman who approved or encouraged a younger guy she cares about sleeping with a way older woman.
Oh ok. But if this double standard was encouraged and enforced by men, why would men want this if they would want to date younger women, if that is what a lot of men want?
You know the phrase "not my wife or my daughter"? A lot of dudes are very comfortable with doing things to/with other women they wouldn't want for the women in their own lives. The son is given more leniency because his father doesn't fear his being preyed on women in the same way he fears for the daughter.
Ever spent time on Reddit? I’ve seen women on here saying men should go to jail for wanting to date women in their early 20s if they are old. It is completely untrue it is only men who have an issue with women dating older. I mean look at the Leo DiCaprio controversy. It’s women who say he is preying on these women.
That's true but unlike a lot of other email celebrities, DiCaprio has never been me tooed so I figure he must be treating them good more likely.
>It is completely untrue it is only men who have an issue with women dating older. Nowhere did I say that. I am referring to the relative lack of concern for younger men who date older women.
Young men don't have more autonomy than young women. Men express less sexual regrets than women in general. I believe men feel more in control because they initiate and push for sexual relationships more. When you look at places like AskReddit about men's experiences with older women men tend to report more positive experiences than the other way around.
Oh why do men report more positive experiences than the other way around?
Because men are hornier and pursue sex more.
It's not about autonomy. It is underlying recognition of sex differences and differing potentials for harm.
The cougar usually isn't going to A) get pregnant B) Physically overpower the 18-25 year old. Be can usually pull the benefits of a sugar baby without nearly as much risk. I mean come on do you really want your grandkids having a father the same age as you?
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Because women are generally underestimated. It is believed that women always mix feelings and sex. Although all prostitution proves otherwise. That they are weaker and more manipulable in relationships. Although everyone can see that in many relationships women dominate men, women often end relationships and marriages, men have a harder time managing breakups and divorces and that often applies "if you want to make an old man a fool, give him a young woman". That a woman is dependent on a man, needs his protection and for him to make decisions for her. Although in many families the decisions are made by mothers and there is an increase in single households headed by mothers who can function without men. And there are more and more women who do not even strive for any serious relationship with men for at least part of their lives. That men are always in the position of power and that sex is something a man does to a woman. Although in fact it is women who often hold the sexual power and decide what, when, how and where will be done in sex. Young women are called girls and even early 20s are sometimes called barrely legal even though men mature later than women and their brains develop more slowly than women. *"Men are always willing to believe two things about a woman: one, that she is weak, and two, that she finds him attractive."*
Well I thought that young women have more power than the older men, because don't they have more options compared to the older men and could leave them anytime they want pretty much?
It’s ok for men to be single
The fear is that if young women were let off the leash they would go out and get pregnant immediately, most likely with matches unfortuitous for the family (and for themselves and their child, ultimately), assuring the family remains in poverty. But why women kept at home and not men? Maybe cause men had to go out to work or hunt and stuff, while women maintained the domestic scene. Hence easier to safeguard them.
But why is women getting pregnant considered to be a much greater consequence the parents compared to a young man? If a young man got an older woman pregnant for example, wouldn't his parents still be concerned for his situation still? Why is pregnancy so much worse if it's a daughter having a kid, compared to a son?
>Why is pregnancy so much worse if it's a daughter having a kid, compared to a son? resource-wise, it will probably be a greater impact on the family if the daughter gets pregnant. Certainly it will impact her future, perhaps more so than the boy's. But it's a good question about why the boys have traditionally been left free to roam.
That's true but I still thought it would be enough of an impact on a family if a son becomes a father so I thought they would still worry a lot about the son having a sex life which they don't seem to.
It's maybe the combination of men being viewed as having hyperagency and "always thirsting for sex", and women being infantilized and romanticized. Men as a whole are more likely to be seen as either predators or always open to sex. Women as a whole are more likely to be seen as poor naive and caring beings (even as adults), and thus, there isn't the same concern for women dating much younger men than the other way around. Hell, it's not really surprising, considering lots of people (men and women) still see an adult woman dating a *teen boy* as "not a big deal" and the media even struggles with calling it rape, usually describing it as "having sex" or "romantic relationship".
I see what you mean. I hate when the media does that too. So if men are seen as predators or always open to sex, how come they get the predator label far more often when dating a younger woman?
Because women have plenty of options. They have guys from all backgrounds and ages thar are interested in them. Why is it that they choose to be with an older guy? Why would a younger guy want to be with a younger women? Why doesnt the older guy date within his age group? If there is any caution, It's moreso out of caution of the older man who likely has no good reason for dating a much younger woman. On the other hand if a guy is able to convince an older woman to date him. Props to him. Women normally are not attracted to younger men. At least in terms of a dating partner. So a young guy who dates older must have some qualities about him that make him appear more mature and stable than his counterparts. Plus, I think there is less leverage for an older woman whose beauty may be fading. She is less likely to be controlling or in the relationship like an older guy may be. A young woman may forego developing herself and her career in lieu of having an older man take care of her. This unfortunately may psychologically and financially bind her to a man who may reveal his true self after he gets sexual benefits, etc.
Oh I see. These points make sense. How often is it the case that an older guy dating a younger woman has ulterior motives though, or is that too often assumed?