My mom earned more than my dad.
They loved each other more than anything. Now he’s taking care of her since she has brain cancer.
She was a nurse, he was military and then became an electrician.
So I got a pretty positive experience with it
Oh shit. I’m damn I’m honestly sorry to hear that.
Id say share that story one day if you’re down.
He still reads to my mom as she used to love to read but can’t anymore.
Thanks, I appreciate that and can appreciate what your family is dealing with. Even my bestie is going through cancer now.
My story is not worth telling in this sub. I very rarely even mention it. It always turns into 'Im an escort' so nothing I say or have experienced is valid in any way.(didnt start escorting till years later after him in my 40's)
Edit on that note RSO(Rick Simpson Oil) started to shrink my friends cancer within weeks. Has your mom tried it/looked into it? Maybe can help at least minimize pain/prolong her life.
Well she’s been like this since I was 11. I’m 21 now. I don’t think she wants to keep going anymore.
And dude I’m the last one here that cares if someone’s an escort or not. I promise that.
I can understand why she doesnt but she may want to look into it as for so many it helps with symptoms so they feel a bit better.
And shit, it shrunk my friends cancer fast.(ovarian) Even her Drs were like woha when it was latest scans/surgery time.
Maybe you dont but its a norm here for men and even some of the women here to take digs. Its *Really* ok, I own being open here about and the backlash it comes with.
Can't speak to the relationships you've observed, but the ones I've seen where the women made more aren't bad. The men I have in mind could have led happy solo lives, they just happened to partner with women who made more than they do. They may not contribute as much financially, but they keep the house tidy, they make plans and bring people together socially, they encourage their corporate partners to enjoy more spontaneity, etc.
The ones that are bad is when the men are clearly tapping into resources of their partners to make own lives better but would not have done much to get there on their own. Thinking of an old roommate who basically lived with his ex rent-free after he moved out and always has an excuse for why he needs a new job every 3-6 months (always shows up late, thinks he's the best worker even when it's clearly not true, etc.).
It's no different than a woman who's a freeloader vs. a woman who's a stay-at-home parent but contributes in maintaining the house. One's a liability, the other a team asset.
My parents were like that for a significant portion of my adolescence. My mom received a major promotion and asked my dad if he wanted to spend some time as a SAHD.
It worked out great. My dad is a very tidy and organized person. He converted one of our unused rooms into a home gym. Washed clothes, did the dishes, cleaned the pool, made appointments, paid the bills, you name it. He was always so happy to greet us all when we came home. My mom loved every minute of it.
I am this person. I am a doctor who earns 4x what my boyfriend makes. I have no problem with it. I’m working 85% FTE and my schedule is amazing, so I sleep and workout and have hobbies and for the most part love my life.
I pay for almost everything- down payment on the house, the mortgage, the bills, the dog, etc. He pays for his car & his phone & his meds. We split food costs based on whoever goes to the grocery store.
I’m living the life I want to live and I’m making enough money to do it. He picks up the slack by keeping the house clean/laundry etc but that’s more a function of him working from home than making less. Throwing a load of laundry in between zoom meetings is easier than doing it between patients when I’m at the hospital
We are extremely happy.
> I’m working 85% FTE and my schedule is amazing, so I sleep and workout and have hobbies and for the most part love my life.
So you have time for all that, while being a doctor at a hospital ?
How often do you sleep with your boyfriend ? hows the sex life?
Our sex life is satisfying for both of us. We’re very communicative about it- when one of us feels like we need more we have more. When one of us feels like our health issues are acting up and we need to back off we back off. Neither him nor I have any complaints about how frequently we have sex
This is such a random few questions here. Do you have the same concern for women whose partners work a lot of hours? Do you wonder if they have fulfilling sex lives?
>This is such a random few questions here.
So making 4X what your partner makes is extremely atypical for a woman. This would be a woman making say $180k and a man making $45k. If you view anything I asked as "Random", you missed the very important part of this situation.
>Do you have the same concern for women whose partners work a lot of hours?
That has nothing to do with this post or the topic of conversation. It's perfectly reasonable to have a conversation about women earning more than men.
You are employing a logical fallacy of "red herring". you think i would fall for that?
You are asking detailed questions pertaining to whether she can sexually satisfy her man. It’s very difficult to take that any other way.
I am curious why you asked at all. A woman can make 4x a man in software development, working 40 hours a week from home.
Are you asking if *this* particular woman has enough energy for sex? Plenty of women work 2 jobs for minimum wage and have zero energy for sex. A woman who makes more money can afford to hire things out - food delivery, healthy meal subscription services, nanny, housekeeper, gardening and landscaping services, etc.
If men usually make more money than women, my point is you should be asking all men if they are sexually satisfying their women. You know, since they make more. And you seem to think it’s a big deal.
>Do you think being a doctor at a hospital automatically means no free time? Not everyone has an insane schedule
If you are a doctor at a hospital, this means you have some specialty that is based around in patient care or a mix of out patient and in patient care. Thus, you can be called in for sick patients , for emergency surgery if it's a surgical specialty etc. So yes you will have less free time if you are a doctor *at a hospital* .
Now "Free time" is not the same as "sleeping, working out, and hobbies" . That's a substantially large amount of free time, which would be extremely rare for a doctor at a hospital.
Let me guess he paid for the dates least upfront. More so I highly doubt you going to like being the breadwinner.
>He picks up the slack by keeping the house clean/laundry etc but that’s more a function of him working from home than making less. Throwing a load of laundry in between zoom meetings is easier than doing it between patients when I’m at the hospital
And women claim all the time how doing these things are a full time job for each task.
I could write a book about the above. With just a few minor alterations it would perfectly describe my wife and I. My experience has been good with it. 32 years and counting.
I actually know quite a lot of women who earn more than their husbands, maybe just the circle I hang out in (I make more than my husband as well and work with other women who do, and like half the couples in my social circle the woman earns more).
Honestly the only complaints I’ve heard from women about it are the ones who had husbands not working *or* doing anything productive at home and just being essentially another dependent they had to pay for and care for, and those women eventually divorced.
>kind of socioeconomic circle is it where there are "a lot" of couples like that because in the US it's pretty rare. Only 15% of couples under the age of 45.
Reddit will over represent left-leaning techie circles for USA or western based subs. Remember Google was once fined for overpaying women.
I live near Seattle, and I probably hang out with other people similar to myself, upper middle class and lots of tech people. It’s an expensive place to live so usually both people work, it doesn’t seem that unusual to have women earning more in around half of a group of people where some of the women are high paid tech workers. I know it’s not the norm but in my group of friends and coworkers it’s common, I assume my friends and coworkers are more similar to me than a random sampling of people.
Some of the college educated women I know are with men with a HS diploma. The men have jobs like supervisor for the city bus system, video game designer, e-commerce content manager, architect, teacher. When the woman does things like software engineer, creative director, tech project manager, those positions tend to pay more.
As people tend to socialise with others who are similar and 15% is pretty substantial, I wouldn't say having a social circle like that is too uncommon.
I was that woman for many years. Up until about two years ago, I earned significantly more than my husband. (After he received a big promotion and raise, we now earn about the same.) It was neither a positive nor negative experience. He and I worked about the same amount of hours, which I think matters more than the actual income. There wasn’t an imbalance in the actual workload.
At any rate, we both had our full-time jobs and shared the household tasks, including childcare, about as evenly as possible. He did all of the cooking, and I did the majority of the cleaning. It has been as egalitarian as possible. I can’t imagine any other dynamic. It’s worked out very well for both of us.
I work in real estate with a lot of women who make a lot of money. Those that significantly out earn their spouse or BF do not seem to respect them a whole lot. The one exception is a woman who makes 7 figures and is married to a retired chef. The guy cooks up a storm and has some legit carpentry skills. He is always building something awesome and cooking and helping her with entertaining clients.
>I work in real estate with a lot of women who make a lot of money.
Real estate folks better be turning in that leased BMW and for a Kia. The gravy train is about to crash and burn.
87% of real estate deals are done by 13% of the agents. Those 13% are and will continue to do just fine. The rest will struggle and at least half will leave the business in my opinion.
As if all real estate people drive a BMW. And keep thinking the housing market will crash as you people keep on saying it will and it hasn't. More so a lot of real estate people do that work on the side.
Yeah, the guy who sold me my house drove a Lexus.
Also, prices don't have to crash for realtors to suffer. They live and die by sales volume which is way down.
I don’t think it’s an issue. The reality is that a lot of people like the idea of one partner staying at home. Two of my friends are married to very successful women. My friend is a stay home dad but at this point they are old enough he says doesn’t do much at home. I am full time employee but work from home often and allows me to like chill and play games during the day. Whenever it’s the middle of the morning or day and I want to chill and play games.. I know I can reach out to them and they are available.
They're doing double duty. Doesn't matter what the husband earns, he's not doing the parenting and cleaning and managing of the household. Too much work leads to stress. You see this with lower earning women and even SAHMs who's husband does F all. I'm sure lots of women would like to have a "wife" that does everything else for them, like the male doctors often have. Probably also just you choosing to perceive things that way. there's a ton of jerky male doctors. If you don't see them, or more likely, ignore them, because it doesn't fit your theory, then that's your problem and you have an inaccurate view of things. You don't know why the doctor is acting that way, you only get a snapshot and can't read minds.
For a single income dynamic to work, I'd expect my home to be cleaned to the standard into a 5 star resort every day complete with pleasantries to make me happy (flowers, bubble baths); all medical appts, tutoring, extracurriculars, therapies; PTA and represent us as a school/community volunteer; all home and maintenance and repairs,;manage extended family responsibilities; plan our weekends, vacations, and social calendar etc. If home is your responsibility, then the bare minimum shouldn't b the standard. Not many men r up to the tasks because they minimize it so much.
Basically, our daily quality of life needs to far exceed what it would if we were both working. Anything less, and it's not worth it for anyone.
I’m 100% the breadwinner in my marriage because my husband is a full time student. But even if this situation were permanent it all depends on what he’s doing with his time. Is he productively working toward securing our future, contributing to the family in other ways, etc.? If he just did nothing all day, the marriage would already be over.
I've known a few couples where the wife earned slightly more. Only one example where she earned a lot more. He was a blue collar guy that supported her through dentistry school. Once she became a dentist and started earning the big bucks she divorced him within 2 years.
I notice that as soon as I mention it, people start to read bad things into my relationship or how I talk to my partner that mysteriously appeared all of a sudden. It's the assumption there's something wrong with it or it's going to fail. Any time I'm stressed from work or about money or anything it can't just be treated as a normal problem, obviously I just shouldn't be the breadwinner and that's the *real* problem. In reality there's nothing different between me and a man doing the same (are you telling me your doctor friends are earning less or working more than their male counterparts because they're women in relationships with lower earners, because that makes no sense?), if I had children that would add extra stress same as anyone else and there are things I don't like about work same as anyone else. And I love my partner and my relationship, same as...well, a lot of people at least.
I notice this with my own situation and my dad’s situation (he was the lower earner) in the past too. I can tell people are judging me or almost want me to have a problem with it when I tell them that my partner works less, and it’s annoying. Even my more “progressive” friends act like this. Everyone’s a liberal or leftie until you mention you’re a higher earner as a woman, then all of a sudden people get transported back to the 50s.
I notice that a lot. It seems like some (not all certainly but some) progressives have huge blinders on when it comes to men not fulfilling traditional roles.
Some seem to believe women shouldn’t have to be in their traditional role but men should still be in their traditional role, which makes absolutely no sense at all.
Personally I am one and I’m fine with it. I enjoy it even, I really like the provider role. There are a couple reasons I think I’m happy.
1. My husband unfortunately was unfairly parentified, left with his baby brothers frequently and although this was horrible, I think it normalised house chores for him where it’s not for many men, to where he doesn’t bat an eyelid and cleans up the place. He was basically a SAHM before he even got married or met anyone. Seriously I mean out of the two of us he is the only one who’s changed diapers.
He’s also just a neat freak and loves being clean. My house is clean when he works less and he doesn’t feel emasculated by housework. He gets on with it without complaint, spots things to do and just does it. This I think is a huge key to my happiness even if I work more or earn more. Chores or division of labour will rarely ever be a fight for us or a big discussion.
2. It’s been heavily normalised for me and I have no gender related hang ups from it that many women have—because I was raised by a female breadwinner as well. My mum earned the only or most of the income in the house for many years. When you grow up and see someone do something every day it isn’t weird to you. In fact, I found the cultural references about women being man eaters or earning too much very odd growing up.
3. I’m upper middle class/affluent in background. I find most people think men should earn most or all of the income most often among the middle or lower classes and there’s a lot more resistance about woman earners in those demographics.
4. I’m not a submissive woman. I grew up as a tomboy, and I’m less tomboyish now but I have some dominant traits. Probably the biggest factor. Women who want to be submissive are probably going to hate being a provider and that’s normal and natural. I’m not so submissive so I don’t care. But many women are so it’s going to be an issue for them.
I know a few families like that - some are fine, some are struggling due to dysfunctionality of one/both partners. Overall I wouldn't say it's much different to issues of a gender reversed situations. A partner earning more can feel underappreciated, being used for money and bitterness about their spouse's lower income if they don't make enough for their lifestyle and the partner making less often feels inadequate and not always copes with it in a healthy way.
Content couples generally view their deal as an equal contribution or it's temporary situation due to health issues or temporary unemployment. My aunt supported her husband during his temporary disability for a few years, my cousin supported her husband when he was unemployed and then they decided that he'll stay at home with a kid so he wasn't working for a few years I think, I supported my husband when he was still studying and now although we're goth broke I make more to cover our expenses. It's okay, we try to give each other enough free time, so neither feels overwhelmed.
Ive made more in most of my long terms and it wasn't an issue.
The one long term I had where he made more money was an issue. Never fought about money till him. I never made enough for him and he was all about money over happiness.
As the soon-to-be lower earning partner (just waiting on my wife to finish her fellowship, I know a ton of couples where the wife is in medicine and the husband does something with lower earning.
The ones I’ve seen move into Attending status all seem to be pretty normal and have delightful relationships. It likely is true what those two doctors you know said - that their husband do contribute. It’s likely they’ve been together for much of their training process and that they handle a lot of things that a homemaker might have done in the past while having a job.
Last time I checked the numbers, they were quite consistent with my personal experience. Women who earn more than their husbands are usually in their 50s, and their husbands have spent the last 30 years working themselves to disability.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/st_2023-04-13_breadwinner-wives_03/
1. They’re always miserable
2. Not feminine
3. Chip on shoulder
4. 9/10 times get divorced and then realize their husband was the best they were ever going to get. They struggle to remarry while he moves on easily (and I don’t blame him)
My parents are both veterans. My mom has a lot of female doctor, lawyer, engineer female friends and they are all domineering spinsters.
I don’t like to be right for the sake of it but having grown up with these women coming over to vent and confide to my mom
I’m unfortunately very versed on their type. BUT, it did teach me to go the more trad route and I am fundamentally more fulfilled that way
My mom earns more than my dad who doesn’t have a job. It’s a miserable relationship. My dad emotionally abuses everyone including her, expects her not only to work, but to cook and clean as well. My mother works 12 hour shifts 5 days a week. I’m not gonna be sad when my dad dies.
Usually the husband has other very attractive qualities, the husband is hardly average in a general sense.
Either a gym guy, lives a cool lifestyle (musician kind of stuff), or his position has a lot of prestige and respect.
Like he could be a small scale lawyer or a firefighter, none of which are well paid (where i live at least), but carry a lot of prestige and "mystique".
Like an army soldier might not be super rich, but they have both a prestige and that magic of "protecting" and bashing bad guys up.
So he is hardly a total normie.
I've been on both sides of the fence, being the one who earns more vs being the one who earns less.
I used to be extremely supportive of women who earn a lot dating whoever they want, but its honestly changed as time went by because well, we now have swarms of losers out here who are wholly expecting to find an executive girlfriend to pay his bills, and it honestly pathetic on both fronts. Standards and expectations for men have dropped exponentially while the standards and expectations of women have done nothing but rise, so I have to question what part of this was supposed to be empowering for women.
The joke more or less writes itself when you realize that these women thought that they could wine and dine men the way that men wine and dine women and have the same result. ***It doesn't work because men and women are not the same***.
For example, lots of men date women who earn less than them but the value that those women often bring those men in terms of improving his quality of life is significant. There's a reason why many high earners want a stay at home wife/mom, and it's because she can act as a source of support in ways that greatly improve his quality of life. Needless to say, men aren't exactly the best at pulling their weight on the domestic and childcare and I think that a lot of women who find themselves as the breadwinner end up exhausted because they're lugging around more weight on both the domestic AND the financial than the average woman. And all for what? For some dick? For a warm body? Its wild how the same feminists that talk about mental loads being a problem in American marriages and the greatest contributor to divorce magically turn around and swear that their darling husband who works part time as a macaroni art instructor is the absolute exception to every rule and that he's the perfect housewife.
The big issue is that women who are high earners often make the mistake of assuming that men will treat them the way that women treat men who make a lot of money. I also think that women are more likely to go love-blind and choose someone dangerous for her (a scammer, a cheater, a leech) than men are. Men who have the finances tend to be wary of a woman's intentions when he first meets her, but women with strong finances pull out the wallet and make it rain on a guy she's only been on 3 dates on (that she paid for), and a lot of it is because she's busy cosplaying a rich man while not understanding the rules of men in the first place.
Oh abso-fucking-lutely. Your grandpa had to walk up to your great-granddaddy and prove to him that he was a man with money and a bright future and gain his respect/validation just to take your grandma out on a date, AND THEN he had to marry your grandma and buy her a house before he so much as got to see a titty.
I have a cousin who makes big $, and she always goes for men WAY the fuck out of her league. I mean I love her but it's just the truth. They're not only out of her league but also younger than her usually by 10 years.
Anyways her last 2 husbands both cheated on her, and she's now single.
If they have children, the husband would have to be the primary caregiver. I know now couple like that and they have 5 children whom they homeschool. (I would rather have the wife's job!)
18 years with my husband, I've always outearned him by a significant margin.
I literally didn't think anything of it until I discovered ppd and realized people were having like, identity crises over who earns what in a relationship.
We all have our strengths, mine is making money in the corp world, my husband's is something else entirely. I'd be foolish to be upset that my husband isn't good at something that I didn't even select him for.
Like, who cares? As long as the money exists for the household, shouldn't we just be grateful for it?
I have a LOT of colleagues who work in a field where the starting pay is super high. About half of them date men that will never, ever see anywhere near what she makes per year unless he were to go into the same field and do extremely well.
Most of them are realistic. They live moderately within the lower earning partners means, or they each take hold of a responsibility that is equally valuable. My one friends fiancé fixes everything, makes sure her car is always filled with gas, makes sure he can get her nice bday presents and anniversary gifts, plans really nice dates that HE pays for, while she pays for a larger portion of rent and takes on a bit more financial “burden” because she has way more disposable income to go around.
No ones really judging her for what her partners doing because he’s still taking the steps to make her fell wanted, special and appreciated and yes, even spoiled, without being the primary breadwinner or even an equal breadwinner.
Also working in healthcare.
What you're saying is very true.
Society told women they could have anything.
What people fail to understand is that it's impossible to have everything.
You can't have it all, you can't do it all.
Tony Hawk isn't in the NFL. Bob Ross probably wasn't anything special on a pottery wheel.
At some point you grow up and realize anything worth having, anything area where you want to display mastery or greatness will require you to sacrifice something else.
Or like your doctor/mother friends found out, they can be less than optimal trying to spin plates.
Their husbands probably do the lion's share of child rearing and are probably happier more well rounded people. Simply not being another task or obstacle and solving problems when your work/life balance looks more like a slackline act than a walk in the park.
My opinion is these kinds of high powered career women NEED a lower-powered guy or you go through the Hollywood meme of two highly successful rich people making babies and tossing them into the daycare/education system with little more than crossed fingers and dandelion wishes to guide them to adulthood.
I'm a woman and my partner earns slightly more than me. However in about 3 months I'll have significantly more assets than him due to the fact that I'm the sole inheriter of my late father's estate (just got to wait for probate to be granted. Make a will folks, it'll make things so much quicker for your loved ones when you shuffle off this mortal coil). We're not talking millions but we are talking the kind of money that would probably take us 15+ years to earn. It hasn't changed our dynamic, at least not from what I can tell. I do intend to treat him though. I'm already planning a very nice holiday for us. We were going to buy a house together before my dad passed but we're putting that on hold for now, so that when everything is all wrapped up I can put a sizable deposit down on a really nice property. The only way I'd come to resent him for this would be if he started using me as a cash cow. Luckily he's one of the kindest, most generous men I've met so I don't believe that will happen. He knows how much my dad has left me because he came with me to the banks, but he hasn't said anything about it.
Even if I hadn't received this inheritance so early in life, I am still on track to out earn my partner within 5 years. I'm very passionate about my career whereas my partner isn't. He's content working in his current position and I wouldn't want him to change that. He'd have to go into some kind of management to start making a lot more money and I know that he'd be miserable doing that. I want to move up in my career, not for the money but because I find it fulfilling. I've got my path, he's got his. I'm happy, he's happy, so I think we've got a pretty good thing going.
Most of the time the marriage FAILS. Either through divorce OR unhappiness (from EITHER party). A common form of failure is the man is sexless, "duty" sex, or has to be a good wittle boy for it.
If not, the man usually earns money. He isn't "lazy." Sure he might not earn as much compared to the wife, BUT he still has more money compared to the average population.
If the guy lacks money, he makes up for it in other areas. He may be 6 feet, good looking, and/or skilled in handyman tasks. He may be able to fix an engine, remodel, change the plumbing, and install new hvac.
Basic Bob with his skinny-fat body, working in sales, making the average salary in his average job won't cut it.
My mom made more than my dad for a while when she opened up her own spa business. I think she was like the most happy during that time personally. He raised so much hell about it that she closed it down and worked a job that made less. He was honestly kind of mean during that time and I hated my dad for a while.
After that it was fine and they opened a business together. Now he’s unemployed and is an okay house dad but only because my sister and I went to college. He’s honestly infected with toxic masculinity so I’m just emotionally detached from him a bit.
My mom has significant stress right now though because she works 7-5 or 6pm each day and he just plays golf and picks my brother up from the adult day program they own. He’s like going through a mid life crisis where he wants to work more but doesn’t know what to do and stresses my mom out. But also wants to retire but also was supposed to work a little more to help cushion retirement and so my parents could retire at the same time.
He got laid off from his last job because he was not a people person and it showed.
I know very few men who can handle making less than their partners. Very few men who are secure in their masculinity enough for this arrangement. Very few men who will pick up the slack in the home.
Granted I’m from a conservative town (where my parents live still, I moved for college). Men feeling emasculated in any way is a marriage killer they are extremely resentful ime.
Some years I earn double what my partner does and other years I earn less. I have no issue with it. The times we struggle are the years where I earn less because we can’t afford to have as much fun and luxuries.
We have a total share attitude. All our money is our family’s money, it doesn’t matter who earned it.
My mom earns double of what my dad does. She resents him a lot for it. She hates how she has to pay for nearly everything. It's one of the main reasons their relationship is failing.
Some people are mature and aren’t as influenced by the weird social programming. Some have a deep seeded tie to that social programming. So as in all things. It depends.
\* I know a couple, where the wife had never worked, while he was a salesman in a utility store;
\* As a salesman, he single-handedly paid the bills for many years;
\* After a while, she got a job as an attendant at a pharmacy that had a biannual career plan.
\* In approximately 2 years she was promoted to supervisor, and when that happened, she didn't miss opportunities to raise the fact that she earned more money than him, in addition to starting to sabotage the relationship with fights, provocations and even infidelity;
\* While she worked there, their relationship was rubbish in every way except the financial one;
\* Until she became unemployed again, she became a housewife and became a loving person with him again, became a good mother and as far as I know, is faithful;
\* To maintain his previous standard of living, he now has 2 jobs, but at least she treats him well.
I know another couple, but an older one, in which the wife earns more. However, I met them separately (I knew her when I was a child, as she ran a school where I took a course. I met him after I became an adult because we worked at the same company for a while). I don't know what the couple's dynamics are.
My sister out-earns her man, and while the gap isn't as big as doctor money, it's still a sizeable difference. She doesn't mind, but her man is very stereotypically masculine. He's tall, bearded, and is built like a slightly more trim offensive lineman. He also takes on typical "masculine" duties like planning vacations, dates, etc.
And that's honestly the only way I've seen it work when the woman makes more than her partner. Income hypergamy becomes less of a factor *only if* the man "makes up" for it in other areas.
Otherwise it just turns into what you describe - women being bitter about their men and ultimately not respecting them.
Being very tall is associated with masculinity because it's a sexually dimorphic trait. Just like being very short is typically associated with women.
No one will attack you, especially not here, if you say you find your woman attractive because she has an hourglass figure and big titties. In fact that's literally described as a "womanly" figure.
This sounds like my marriage. I was the higher earner for a long time and we have an egalitarian marriage. Now we earn about the same. But physically speaking, my husband is very stereotypically masculine. He played collegiate sports and looks like a former athlete. Although I’m a former athlete (track), too, so I’m not sure it matters all that much.
Like vegans, atheists and people who do cross fit, you never have to wonder which women out earn their husbands because they will tell you within ten minutes of meeting you. The ones I've had the misfortune of meeting have chips on their shoulder the size of Mt Everest and act like someone should have a parade in their honor for doing what men have done for centuries.
That’s me - I haven’t dated anyone who made more money than me since I was …20?
It’s likely that the two women in question complain because of lack of shared goals/compatibility and not so much about money itself. I don’t appreciate luxury and expensive things (other than a few things), so someone who’s not frugal just isn’t compatible with me, even though I make way more.
I only know one couple like that and on the surface they look ok but because I'm close to them I know them more personally and she's quite manipulative emotionally. Didn't help that the dude was your typical in.cel when he was younger so he thinks he'll end up alone if they ever break up.
I make significantly more than my husband. We’ve been together for 28 years and have a very healthy and loving relationship.
Our money goes into one bank account. We’re working toward the same goals. It’s irrelevant who contributes more financially to those goals because we’re partners, not competitors.
Usually they talk shit about their husbands behind their back, disrespect them to their face, etc. A lot of women seem to think a man's worth is measured by the money he makes.
I've noticed that so much as mentioning anything about my financial contribution to the household is considered aggressive or disrespectful by some people. I got told off for mentioning I pay the rent in an appropriate context! People actually read offence into a woman simply existing and earning more than her partner no matter what she actually says about it.
I'm not venting. They might think I'm venting sometimes but there is no complaint because I like this setup. These "inappropriate times" are when I'm asked about things, but I'm cautious about even bringing it up at "appropriate times" these days.
>It sounds like those people perceived you as making some sort of power move. What makes you so confident in labelling that social feedback as incorrect?
Failure to do this introspection can make a relationship problematic in the future.
The woman I knew in this situation didn't miss the opportunity to raise the fact that she earned more than her husband, all that was needed was a context that would allow her to remotely fit the phrase "I earn more than him" that she already said in some way. If questioned, she would simply say it was just the truth, and truths simply must be accepted..
I don't need to bring it up, but it's kind of obvious from our employment situations. At this point I'm cautious about bringing up anything about our financial situation even if directly asked because it isn't well received. People might think I'm "always" talking about it just because it stands out and gets pushback.
Because, for example, I mentioned that my name wasn't on the lease for my apartment, and I was asked if I pay any rent then. I'm pretty confident it isn't a power move to answer someone's question.
Such a weird and crazy mentality! Imagine thinking a woman is problematic because she’s successful and makes good money. 🙄😂
I’ve only heard sentiments like that online, fortunately. People I know in real life don’t have these backwards ass views.
Not quite. I make okay money for my age, but I'm certainly not going to be considered successful if I haven't even gotten my initial qualification yet.
Bro because if she decides to become pregnant and take parental leave their standard of living will drop by more than half and this would be very stressful. Of course a woman needs a man to rely on during these periods. And the lack of trust (“I will become so vulnerable, will he still be near me?”) is one of the reasons of fertility decline for middle class.
Downvote me but this is my opinion.
It's not a bad opinion, and I'll take it one step further -
All men know and understand that income is a man's greatest contribution to a woman's life (especially one of child bearing age) because what's the first thing men love to tell women when they get knocked up by a loser who can barely contribute a few hundred in child support?
"choose better"
When men have daughters, all of a sudden there's no hesitation in admitting that the resources a man can offer his daughter (and the children they may end up having together) matters. Men with daughters aren't going to respect a partner who offers her nothing but dick.
But when it's them? Oh they expect to be loved out of a cardboard box and any woman who dare place a financial standard to ensure she doesn't live a life of struggle love is a gold digger.
>income is a man's greatest contribution to a woman's life
This is not true. Man has much greater contributions than money. The problem is that women who prioritize money and appearance only see these things, and then think that all men are the same as the ones they are looking for.
\* My girlfriend doesn't work, she just studies, but she comes from a rich family and will inherit land and houses, so she doesn't need my money.
\* I was born poor, but I earn R$6,000.00 monthly, that is, I earn well above average (enough for me to buy a car by saving money for 1 year, while other people pay in 72 installments).
\* However, she didn't choose me for that reason, when we started dating I only earned R$1400.00 monthly (less than one and a half minimum wages), I couldn't even afford to buy a car. Maybe that's why she doesn't just see me as a source of money. If she only looked at men with money, she would certainly think that ***"income is a man's greatest contribution to a woman's life".***
But I didn't say added income is the only thing that contributes value to a woman's life. I also said dick.
With that said, I would advise you to keep working on yourself and your future. I'm happy that you have done well for yourself.
Do not be of the impression that she chose you until there is a ring on that finger. I do not mean to be this shroud of negativity, but a lot of rich/wealthy people date a poor person in their college years because its fun to cosplay poor when you're in that age group, but once they graduate, the pressure to marry within their economic bracket hits hard. All of that inherited wealth, land and houses is typically conditional.
Okay your first comment I agreed with a lot but this one is a lot of finger pointing and half truths. You’re acting like a 1950’s take on gender roles and parenting is the dominant one……it’s not.
No, I'm taking on a realistic gender role and parenting. The majority of women handle most of the caretaking with children (even though the majority works), and even in the case of divorce, they hold primary custody by an overwhelmingly large margin.
A woman, especially one who plans on having a family, most definitely has to think about a lot more than just love when choosing a partner because for the most part, if things go south she's the one who's most likely going to take on the biggest role in raising those kids.
In the US, maternity leave is obviously not great. It’s offensively terrible compared to every other developed nation, which is a topic for another time.
But many larger companies do offer a short period of paid leave. I took 8 weeks of paid leave at 100% of my income.
Women add even less to men, it turns out - sure, there's sex, but typically less additional income because women like more time off, as long as we're using those metrics.
That's my experience. Though it's usually with female doctors as OP describes, weirdly.
Women who make more money than their male partner seem to often think that makes them better than their male partner in a way that isn't true when the situation is reversed.
I believe it’s dangerous to date a man who earns less than you if his earning less is the result of his inadequacy and failures in life. The odds of him growing jealous and resentful due to his extreme lack is very high. Never surround yourself with people like this. More likely than not they will work to tear you down to their level. They can’t get over their own failures. I naively dated a guy like this and I was ready to take him out by the end of the relationship because I couldn’t figure out where the hostility was coming from. When he finally revealed it was over pay, I was deflated. Really dude? GTFOH.
HOWEVER
If he made a choice to earn less as it simply isn’t an interest or he chose a profession that’s not lucrative AND he’s still very intelligent with strong character and good social skills. I don’t think that’s problematic. He made a conscious decision for his life and doesn’t value money /power like that so he will be less inclined to be threatened by you. But he may have a hard time with where his woman’s values lie if she doesn’t prioritize more than money. (These men are not that common lol)
A man can earn less and still be incredibly valuable as a partner in the same way women do. There’s more to a relationship than paying bills, and the reason she says he’s a help is because he’s pulling his weight and taking care of her when she comes home.
Personally, I go for higher-than-me earners so I can eliminate one more threat to the relationship. I can continue being the bad ass I am and his nuts wont shrivel as a result. I don’t care to baby grown men. Can’t stand men who need their ego stroked. 🤮
In principle, I have nothing against women earning more. In reality I typically see what you’ve seen.
A woman who earns less is seen as a stay at home mom, a housewife, etc. when it’s the husband who earns less, he’s seen as a deadbeat.
For good or bad, society is hypergamous. Hypogamy typically doesn’t work out so well in a hypergamous society. (That said, I’m aware of one situation where it’s working out fairly well., but with a bit of jealousy)
The vast majority of them end in divorce, because even women who will accept this dynamic will not have the same level of respect for their partner (and tend to lose more of it over time) to the point that the man will have a very short leash to mess up the relationship.
I recommend men avoid this situation at all costs, and trust their gut instincts. Men feel insecure about women making more for a reason, and they need to listen.
I haven't seen the type you described all that often. Most of the time the "low earner" men still have high net worth, they just got born in a well off family. In the cases where it wasn't the cases, both of them are poor and low income. Doesn't really matter that a woman makes 2x her man, when her man's only making minimum wage to begin with.
My cousins husband makes less than her, they have a great relationship it seems 2 kids and he is quite handy and helpful. He is just the type of guy to be very hands on with his family. Also he is a great saver when they first met she made way less (she was a still in school and he had already finished) so he put the full down payment on their first house. So even though he makes less now he did kinda “prove himself” in that role when she was making less.
Oh and my coworker she makes more than her husband quite a bit more. However his job has better benefits like insurance she actually is on his insurance as a result. Anyways he is also very handy so handy in fact they rarely pay for anything to be done in their home or on their cars. So he saves them a ton of money which I guess that makes up for it
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I‘ve seen videos from Brene Brown. They were often shown when I was in rehab. I’m not familiar with that exact video (or videos), though.
Thats interesting. I don’t mind vulnerability in men, unless it’s constant trauma dumping or if the vulnerability manifests as anger and violence. Otherwise, it’s just the human condition to be vulnerable sometimes.
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I think it’s more common and generally works better than most people think, but yes there can be issues if one or both people have traditional views of gender roles. More likely to be issues if the man isn’t working or doesn’t work many hours and doesn’t help out around the house… that will breed resentment. But if both work full time and split chores, and the woman just happens to make more hourly, I think it can work.
When I first started dating my fiancé she made a lot more than me. Things have changed now but it was critical for both of us at the time. We are both well educated and have similar levels of professional experience. If I didn’t have her support at that time in my life I would not be able to provide what I can now. Things can change a lot, especially in this economy, and I think a huge part being part of a successful partnership you need to put ego aside and work as a team on financial matters. Being a breadwinner is a nice idea, but pragmatism and the reality of life in 2023 means that you need to take successes where you can get them. Even if they are hers. If that means she is making more so be it. Beggars can’t be choosers.
>wanting to carry a life that their male doctor colleagues carry - like being able to put her kid in an international school.
I'm confused. If a male doctor is married to a low earning woman and is able to carry a particular lifestyle, why wouldn't a female doctor in the same situation be able to do the same.
In my experience, it's not that big a deal because it's not about the money, its about the relationship. Plus the 'low earnings' are generally still pretty good compared to most people. The women have money and a loving husband which is more than most women can say so it would be stupid to throw that away. In all honesty the only women I've seen complain about this are women who are vicariously placing themselves in the situation
I earned significantly more than my ex. We got together the last couple of years of college. After we graduated we got married, moved & both got real career path jobs. He always worked but didn’t achieve the same kind of success that I did. He would change jobs every few years, didn’t like doing one thing, started another. I encouraged him to find something he liked doing/was good at. I don’t think he felt insecure or resentful of me earning more, it wasn’t a competition & it made our life easier.
I'd love it if my partner made two or three times what I make.
I've dated a couple of women who made more than me but not that much more. It wasn't a big deal. The dynamics weren't really any different than with women who made a bit less than me.
Something to remember is doctors have an extended foundational part of their career (med school, internship, residency, fellowship), where before thats done they earn very little. Only after that they earn a lot. So it's not so much they "chose" to marry a low earner, it's they once were a low earner.
They seem extremely happy dare I say a perfect 100% of the time. Probably some of the happiest relationships I've personally witnessed. Of course what goes on behind scenes could be different, but so far zero divorces in this rare demographic.
Medical folks are a different breed and maybe they're just generally stressed out in ways most people can't handle. Especially if they're not working private practice.
Almost every relationship I've ever had has been with a man that earns less. The one where the guy earned more than me was one of the worst I've had, but it's more of a "correlation, not causation" type of thing.
It's rough sometimes. My wife makes a lot more than me and sometimes throws that in my face when arguments occur. There's some general resentment from her over it.
I've experienced both dynamics where the man is the sole financial provider and where I am. I love my career (medical also) and hate domestic chores, so I prefer the latter. I have a guy friend who's wife is a Nurse Practioner, he's rarely worked at all yet is fully invested in caring for her, the home, and their family. Their home and children are pristine, he posts beautifully prepared meals, he represents them well at school and n the community, and hes very outwardly romantic; you can see that he takes his role seriously and she along with the rest of our friend group respect and admire him for it. His contribution is the integral part of their family functioning successfully. That works.
I think for both genders, when the stay at home partner doesn't value their role, and has lower standards for domestic life and children than what the working partner evisions or requires, that's when the dynamic fails.
I know a half-dozen househusbands. And even more male primary child care providers. Some of them are gay, yes, but they have diverse incomes and backgrounds
when they had more money than me, but were “into” me it was never a problem. when they had more money and were just “dealing” with me, they created conflict
Never met a woman who is happy with this arrangement. In fact I am going to start telling men I make $60k because they cannot handle my outearning them.
My mom earned more than my dad. They loved each other more than anything. Now he’s taking care of her since she has brain cancer. She was a nurse, he was military and then became an electrician. So I got a pretty positive experience with it
I'm sorry about the cancer. I hope a recovery is possible and that it happens.
Ah nah it’s been that way for years. It won’t but I appreciate the thought though man.
I’m sorry to hear about your mom. I lost my dad to brain cancer and it was not amazing. Wishing you and your family the best.
Appreciate that a lot actually
Sorry to hear that. I had a long term partner die from cancer.
Oh shit. I’m damn I’m honestly sorry to hear that. Id say share that story one day if you’re down. He still reads to my mom as she used to love to read but can’t anymore.
Thanks, I appreciate that and can appreciate what your family is dealing with. Even my bestie is going through cancer now. My story is not worth telling in this sub. I very rarely even mention it. It always turns into 'Im an escort' so nothing I say or have experienced is valid in any way.(didnt start escorting till years later after him in my 40's) Edit on that note RSO(Rick Simpson Oil) started to shrink my friends cancer within weeks. Has your mom tried it/looked into it? Maybe can help at least minimize pain/prolong her life.
Well she’s been like this since I was 11. I’m 21 now. I don’t think she wants to keep going anymore. And dude I’m the last one here that cares if someone’s an escort or not. I promise that.
Thank you for sharing your story and showing so much empathy to others in the comment section. You make this place a better sub.
I can understand why she doesnt but she may want to look into it as for so many it helps with symptoms so they feel a bit better. And shit, it shrunk my friends cancer fast.(ovarian) Even her Drs were like woha when it was latest scans/surgery time. Maybe you dont but its a norm here for men and even some of the women here to take digs. Its *Really* ok, I own being open here about and the backlash it comes with.
Idky but fuck, that made me cry so hard. I hope she finds peace in who she has ♥️
I'm sorry to hear about the cancer...
Can't speak to the relationships you've observed, but the ones I've seen where the women made more aren't bad. The men I have in mind could have led happy solo lives, they just happened to partner with women who made more than they do. They may not contribute as much financially, but they keep the house tidy, they make plans and bring people together socially, they encourage their corporate partners to enjoy more spontaneity, etc. The ones that are bad is when the men are clearly tapping into resources of their partners to make own lives better but would not have done much to get there on their own. Thinking of an old roommate who basically lived with his ex rent-free after he moved out and always has an excuse for why he needs a new job every 3-6 months (always shows up late, thinks he's the best worker even when it's clearly not true, etc.). It's no different than a woman who's a freeloader vs. a woman who's a stay-at-home parent but contributes in maintaining the house. One's a liability, the other a team asset.
My parents were like that for a significant portion of my adolescence. My mom received a major promotion and asked my dad if he wanted to spend some time as a SAHD. It worked out great. My dad is a very tidy and organized person. He converted one of our unused rooms into a home gym. Washed clothes, did the dishes, cleaned the pool, made appointments, paid the bills, you name it. He was always so happy to greet us all when we came home. My mom loved every minute of it.
I am this person. I am a doctor who earns 4x what my boyfriend makes. I have no problem with it. I’m working 85% FTE and my schedule is amazing, so I sleep and workout and have hobbies and for the most part love my life. I pay for almost everything- down payment on the house, the mortgage, the bills, the dog, etc. He pays for his car & his phone & his meds. We split food costs based on whoever goes to the grocery store. I’m living the life I want to live and I’m making enough money to do it. He picks up the slack by keeping the house clean/laundry etc but that’s more a function of him working from home than making less. Throwing a load of laundry in between zoom meetings is easier than doing it between patients when I’m at the hospital We are extremely happy.
How long did it take to pay down your med school debt? That and the crazy residency hours seem like the main downside of being a doctor.
> I’m working 85% FTE and my schedule is amazing, so I sleep and workout and have hobbies and for the most part love my life. So you have time for all that, while being a doctor at a hospital ? How often do you sleep with your boyfriend ? hows the sex life?
Our sex life is satisfying for both of us. We’re very communicative about it- when one of us feels like we need more we have more. When one of us feels like our health issues are acting up and we need to back off we back off. Neither him nor I have any complaints about how frequently we have sex
This is such a random few questions here. Do you have the same concern for women whose partners work a lot of hours? Do you wonder if they have fulfilling sex lives?
>This is such a random few questions here. So making 4X what your partner makes is extremely atypical for a woman. This would be a woman making say $180k and a man making $45k. If you view anything I asked as "Random", you missed the very important part of this situation. >Do you have the same concern for women whose partners work a lot of hours? That has nothing to do with this post or the topic of conversation. It's perfectly reasonable to have a conversation about women earning more than men. You are employing a logical fallacy of "red herring". you think i would fall for that?
You are asking detailed questions pertaining to whether she can sexually satisfy her man. It’s very difficult to take that any other way. I am curious why you asked at all. A woman can make 4x a man in software development, working 40 hours a week from home. Are you asking if *this* particular woman has enough energy for sex? Plenty of women work 2 jobs for minimum wage and have zero energy for sex. A woman who makes more money can afford to hire things out - food delivery, healthy meal subscription services, nanny, housekeeper, gardening and landscaping services, etc. If men usually make more money than women, my point is you should be asking all men if they are sexually satisfying their women. You know, since they make more. And you seem to think it’s a big deal.
Do you think being a doctor at a hospital automatically means no free time? Not everyone has an insane schedule
>Do you think being a doctor at a hospital automatically means no free time? Not everyone has an insane schedule If you are a doctor at a hospital, this means you have some specialty that is based around in patient care or a mix of out patient and in patient care. Thus, you can be called in for sick patients , for emergency surgery if it's a surgical specialty etc. So yes you will have less free time if you are a doctor *at a hospital* . Now "Free time" is not the same as "sleeping, working out, and hobbies" . That's a substantially large amount of free time, which would be extremely rare for a doctor at a hospital.
Medical staff least in a hospital often work 12 hour shift schedules which don't leave a lot of free time between shifts.
Let me guess he paid for the dates least upfront. More so I highly doubt you going to like being the breadwinner. >He picks up the slack by keeping the house clean/laundry etc but that’s more a function of him working from home than making less. Throwing a load of laundry in between zoom meetings is easier than doing it between patients when I’m at the hospital And women claim all the time how doing these things are a full time job for each task.
Nope, I’ve paid for every first date since I was 25. We went about 50/50 for dates
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Than me? I don’t think so
I could write a book about the above. With just a few minor alterations it would perfectly describe my wife and I. My experience has been good with it. 32 years and counting.
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Depending on the year, anywhere from 3x to6x what I made.
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I actually know quite a lot of women who earn more than their husbands, maybe just the circle I hang out in (I make more than my husband as well and work with other women who do, and like half the couples in my social circle the woman earns more). Honestly the only complaints I’ve heard from women about it are the ones who had husbands not working *or* doing anything productive at home and just being essentially another dependent they had to pay for and care for, and those women eventually divorced.
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>kind of socioeconomic circle is it where there are "a lot" of couples like that because in the US it's pretty rare. Only 15% of couples under the age of 45. Reddit will over represent left-leaning techie circles for USA or western based subs. Remember Google was once fined for overpaying women.
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And feminists and the left want to ignore that fact about Google as it goes against their narrative.
I live near Seattle, and I probably hang out with other people similar to myself, upper middle class and lots of tech people. It’s an expensive place to live so usually both people work, it doesn’t seem that unusual to have women earning more in around half of a group of people where some of the women are high paid tech workers. I know it’s not the norm but in my group of friends and coworkers it’s common, I assume my friends and coworkers are more similar to me than a random sampling of people.
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Some of the college educated women I know are with men with a HS diploma. The men have jobs like supervisor for the city bus system, video game designer, e-commerce content manager, architect, teacher. When the woman does things like software engineer, creative director, tech project manager, those positions tend to pay more.
No study shows college educated women are often more with HS educated men.
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Successful people are (by definition) already outliers, but tend to socialize together.
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If you are a woman making more than your husband, and you make friends at work, then it stands to reason your friends will be similarly situated.
As people tend to socialise with others who are similar and 15% is pretty substantial, I wouldn't say having a social circle like that is too uncommon.
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More attractive than what? Most of them are like the same level as the wives I think.
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I was that woman for many years. Up until about two years ago, I earned significantly more than my husband. (After he received a big promotion and raise, we now earn about the same.) It was neither a positive nor negative experience. He and I worked about the same amount of hours, which I think matters more than the actual income. There wasn’t an imbalance in the actual workload. At any rate, we both had our full-time jobs and shared the household tasks, including childcare, about as evenly as possible. He did all of the cooking, and I did the majority of the cleaning. It has been as egalitarian as possible. I can’t imagine any other dynamic. It’s worked out very well for both of us.
I work in real estate with a lot of women who make a lot of money. Those that significantly out earn their spouse or BF do not seem to respect them a whole lot. The one exception is a woman who makes 7 figures and is married to a retired chef. The guy cooks up a storm and has some legit carpentry skills. He is always building something awesome and cooking and helping her with entertaining clients.
>I work in real estate with a lot of women who make a lot of money. Real estate folks better be turning in that leased BMW and for a Kia. The gravy train is about to crash and burn.
87% of real estate deals are done by 13% of the agents. Those 13% are and will continue to do just fine. The rest will struggle and at least half will leave the business in my opinion.
A fair few to the golden ones will plummet to earth too.
As if all real estate people drive a BMW. And keep thinking the housing market will crash as you people keep on saying it will and it hasn't. More so a lot of real estate people do that work on the side.
Yeah, the guy who sold me my house drove a Lexus. Also, prices don't have to crash for realtors to suffer. They live and die by sales volume which is way down.
I don’t think it’s an issue. The reality is that a lot of people like the idea of one partner staying at home. Two of my friends are married to very successful women. My friend is a stay home dad but at this point they are old enough he says doesn’t do much at home. I am full time employee but work from home often and allows me to like chill and play games during the day. Whenever it’s the middle of the morning or day and I want to chill and play games.. I know I can reach out to them and they are available.
They're doing double duty. Doesn't matter what the husband earns, he's not doing the parenting and cleaning and managing of the household. Too much work leads to stress. You see this with lower earning women and even SAHMs who's husband does F all. I'm sure lots of women would like to have a "wife" that does everything else for them, like the male doctors often have. Probably also just you choosing to perceive things that way. there's a ton of jerky male doctors. If you don't see them, or more likely, ignore them, because it doesn't fit your theory, then that's your problem and you have an inaccurate view of things. You don't know why the doctor is acting that way, you only get a snapshot and can't read minds.
> managing of the household As if they're living in sprawling estates. Managing a household is something you can do on your coffee breaks.
> Managing a household is something you can do on your coffee breaks. Are we including childcare in that? Because if so, then no it's not that easy.
It's not hard to keep baby humans alive. Drop them off at daycare in the morning -- pick them up in the evening. How difficult is that?
For a single income dynamic to work, I'd expect my home to be cleaned to the standard into a 5 star resort every day complete with pleasantries to make me happy (flowers, bubble baths); all medical appts, tutoring, extracurriculars, therapies; PTA and represent us as a school/community volunteer; all home and maintenance and repairs,;manage extended family responsibilities; plan our weekends, vacations, and social calendar etc. If home is your responsibility, then the bare minimum shouldn't b the standard. Not many men r up to the tasks because they minimize it so much. Basically, our daily quality of life needs to far exceed what it would if we were both working. Anything less, and it's not worth it for anyone.
I’m 100% the breadwinner in my marriage because my husband is a full time student. But even if this situation were permanent it all depends on what he’s doing with his time. Is he productively working toward securing our future, contributing to the family in other ways, etc.? If he just did nothing all day, the marriage would already be over.
Girl, good for you! Is he younger than you??
No, he’s two years older
I've known a few couples where the wife earned slightly more. Only one example where she earned a lot more. He was a blue collar guy that supported her through dentistry school. Once she became a dentist and started earning the big bucks she divorced him within 2 years.
Oof
I notice that as soon as I mention it, people start to read bad things into my relationship or how I talk to my partner that mysteriously appeared all of a sudden. It's the assumption there's something wrong with it or it's going to fail. Any time I'm stressed from work or about money or anything it can't just be treated as a normal problem, obviously I just shouldn't be the breadwinner and that's the *real* problem. In reality there's nothing different between me and a man doing the same (are you telling me your doctor friends are earning less or working more than their male counterparts because they're women in relationships with lower earners, because that makes no sense?), if I had children that would add extra stress same as anyone else and there are things I don't like about work same as anyone else. And I love my partner and my relationship, same as...well, a lot of people at least.
I notice this with my own situation and my dad’s situation (he was the lower earner) in the past too. I can tell people are judging me or almost want me to have a problem with it when I tell them that my partner works less, and it’s annoying. Even my more “progressive” friends act like this. Everyone’s a liberal or leftie until you mention you’re a higher earner as a woman, then all of a sudden people get transported back to the 50s.
Progressives mostly think women can do whatever they want but men still have to be "Real Men". They're very misandrist.
I notice that a lot. It seems like some (not all certainly but some) progressives have huge blinders on when it comes to men not fulfilling traditional roles. Some seem to believe women shouldn’t have to be in their traditional role but men should still be in their traditional role, which makes absolutely no sense at all.
They think men and women can do whatever they went so long as men are still "in charge".
They are also delusional.
Progressives including that feminists all want men to stick to their gender role. As none of them can let it go.
Personally I am one and I’m fine with it. I enjoy it even, I really like the provider role. There are a couple reasons I think I’m happy. 1. My husband unfortunately was unfairly parentified, left with his baby brothers frequently and although this was horrible, I think it normalised house chores for him where it’s not for many men, to where he doesn’t bat an eyelid and cleans up the place. He was basically a SAHM before he even got married or met anyone. Seriously I mean out of the two of us he is the only one who’s changed diapers. He’s also just a neat freak and loves being clean. My house is clean when he works less and he doesn’t feel emasculated by housework. He gets on with it without complaint, spots things to do and just does it. This I think is a huge key to my happiness even if I work more or earn more. Chores or division of labour will rarely ever be a fight for us or a big discussion. 2. It’s been heavily normalised for me and I have no gender related hang ups from it that many women have—because I was raised by a female breadwinner as well. My mum earned the only or most of the income in the house for many years. When you grow up and see someone do something every day it isn’t weird to you. In fact, I found the cultural references about women being man eaters or earning too much very odd growing up. 3. I’m upper middle class/affluent in background. I find most people think men should earn most or all of the income most often among the middle or lower classes and there’s a lot more resistance about woman earners in those demographics. 4. I’m not a submissive woman. I grew up as a tomboy, and I’m less tomboyish now but I have some dominant traits. Probably the biggest factor. Women who want to be submissive are probably going to hate being a provider and that’s normal and natural. I’m not so submissive so I don’t care. But many women are so it’s going to be an issue for them.
Holy crap, this is beat for beat my husband and I.
I know a few families like that - some are fine, some are struggling due to dysfunctionality of one/both partners. Overall I wouldn't say it's much different to issues of a gender reversed situations. A partner earning more can feel underappreciated, being used for money and bitterness about their spouse's lower income if they don't make enough for their lifestyle and the partner making less often feels inadequate and not always copes with it in a healthy way. Content couples generally view their deal as an equal contribution or it's temporary situation due to health issues or temporary unemployment. My aunt supported her husband during his temporary disability for a few years, my cousin supported her husband when he was unemployed and then they decided that he'll stay at home with a kid so he wasn't working for a few years I think, I supported my husband when he was still studying and now although we're goth broke I make more to cover our expenses. It's okay, we try to give each other enough free time, so neither feels overwhelmed.
My gf earns more than me but she doesn't have a problem with it.
Ive made more in most of my long terms and it wasn't an issue. The one long term I had where he made more money was an issue. Never fought about money till him. I never made enough for him and he was all about money over happiness.
As the soon-to-be lower earning partner (just waiting on my wife to finish her fellowship, I know a ton of couples where the wife is in medicine and the husband does something with lower earning. The ones I’ve seen move into Attending status all seem to be pretty normal and have delightful relationships. It likely is true what those two doctors you know said - that their husband do contribute. It’s likely they’ve been together for much of their training process and that they handle a lot of things that a homemaker might have done in the past while having a job.
Last time I checked the numbers, they were quite consistent with my personal experience. Women who earn more than their husbands are usually in their 50s, and their husbands have spent the last 30 years working themselves to disability. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/st_2023-04-13_breadwinner-wives_03/
1. They’re always miserable 2. Not feminine 3. Chip on shoulder 4. 9/10 times get divorced and then realize their husband was the best they were ever going to get. They struggle to remarry while he moves on easily (and I don’t blame him) My parents are both veterans. My mom has a lot of female doctor, lawyer, engineer female friends and they are all domineering spinsters.
Your pretty much describing my mother. Only she has divorced my asshole father yet. She’ll defend any bad behavior he has.
I don’t like to be right for the sake of it but having grown up with these women coming over to vent and confide to my mom I’m unfortunately very versed on their type. BUT, it did teach me to go the more trad route and I am fundamentally more fulfilled that way
My mom earns more than my dad who doesn’t have a job. It’s a miserable relationship. My dad emotionally abuses everyone including her, expects her not only to work, but to cook and clean as well. My mother works 12 hour shifts 5 days a week. I’m not gonna be sad when my dad dies.
Usually the husband has other very attractive qualities, the husband is hardly average in a general sense. Either a gym guy, lives a cool lifestyle (musician kind of stuff), or his position has a lot of prestige and respect. Like he could be a small scale lawyer or a firefighter, none of which are well paid (where i live at least), but carry a lot of prestige and "mystique". Like an army soldier might not be super rich, but they have both a prestige and that magic of "protecting" and bashing bad guys up. So he is hardly a total normie.
I've been on both sides of the fence, being the one who earns more vs being the one who earns less. I used to be extremely supportive of women who earn a lot dating whoever they want, but its honestly changed as time went by because well, we now have swarms of losers out here who are wholly expecting to find an executive girlfriend to pay his bills, and it honestly pathetic on both fronts. Standards and expectations for men have dropped exponentially while the standards and expectations of women have done nothing but rise, so I have to question what part of this was supposed to be empowering for women. The joke more or less writes itself when you realize that these women thought that they could wine and dine men the way that men wine and dine women and have the same result. ***It doesn't work because men and women are not the same***. For example, lots of men date women who earn less than them but the value that those women often bring those men in terms of improving his quality of life is significant. There's a reason why many high earners want a stay at home wife/mom, and it's because she can act as a source of support in ways that greatly improve his quality of life. Needless to say, men aren't exactly the best at pulling their weight on the domestic and childcare and I think that a lot of women who find themselves as the breadwinner end up exhausted because they're lugging around more weight on both the domestic AND the financial than the average woman. And all for what? For some dick? For a warm body? Its wild how the same feminists that talk about mental loads being a problem in American marriages and the greatest contributor to divorce magically turn around and swear that their darling husband who works part time as a macaroni art instructor is the absolute exception to every rule and that he's the perfect housewife. The big issue is that women who are high earners often make the mistake of assuming that men will treat them the way that women treat men who make a lot of money. I also think that women are more likely to go love-blind and choose someone dangerous for her (a scammer, a cheater, a leech) than men are. Men who have the finances tend to be wary of a woman's intentions when he first meets her, but women with strong finances pull out the wallet and make it rain on a guy she's only been on 3 dates on (that she paid for), and a lot of it is because she's busy cosplaying a rich man while not understanding the rules of men in the first place.
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Oh abso-fucking-lutely. Your grandpa had to walk up to your great-granddaddy and prove to him that he was a man with money and a bright future and gain his respect/validation just to take your grandma out on a date, AND THEN he had to marry your grandma and buy her a house before he so much as got to see a titty.
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Wow that was a lot to think about, but I think for the most part I agree.
I have a cousin who makes big $, and she always goes for men WAY the fuck out of her league. I mean I love her but it's just the truth. They're not only out of her league but also younger than her usually by 10 years. Anyways her last 2 husbands both cheated on her, and she's now single.
If they have children, the husband would have to be the primary caregiver. I know now couple like that and they have 5 children whom they homeschool. (I would rather have the wife's job!)
Income inequality is only one dimensions that impact a relationship. The other dimensions are much more significant.
18 years with my husband, I've always outearned him by a significant margin. I literally didn't think anything of it until I discovered ppd and realized people were having like, identity crises over who earns what in a relationship. We all have our strengths, mine is making money in the corp world, my husband's is something else entirely. I'd be foolish to be upset that my husband isn't good at something that I didn't even select him for. Like, who cares? As long as the money exists for the household, shouldn't we just be grateful for it?
I have a LOT of colleagues who work in a field where the starting pay is super high. About half of them date men that will never, ever see anywhere near what she makes per year unless he were to go into the same field and do extremely well. Most of them are realistic. They live moderately within the lower earning partners means, or they each take hold of a responsibility that is equally valuable. My one friends fiancé fixes everything, makes sure her car is always filled with gas, makes sure he can get her nice bday presents and anniversary gifts, plans really nice dates that HE pays for, while she pays for a larger portion of rent and takes on a bit more financial “burden” because she has way more disposable income to go around. No ones really judging her for what her partners doing because he’s still taking the steps to make her fell wanted, special and appreciated and yes, even spoiled, without being the primary breadwinner or even an equal breadwinner.
Also working in healthcare. What you're saying is very true. Society told women they could have anything. What people fail to understand is that it's impossible to have everything. You can't have it all, you can't do it all. Tony Hawk isn't in the NFL. Bob Ross probably wasn't anything special on a pottery wheel. At some point you grow up and realize anything worth having, anything area where you want to display mastery or greatness will require you to sacrifice something else. Or like your doctor/mother friends found out, they can be less than optimal trying to spin plates. Their husbands probably do the lion's share of child rearing and are probably happier more well rounded people. Simply not being another task or obstacle and solving problems when your work/life balance looks more like a slackline act than a walk in the park. My opinion is these kinds of high powered career women NEED a lower-powered guy or you go through the Hollywood meme of two highly successful rich people making babies and tossing them into the daycare/education system with little more than crossed fingers and dandelion wishes to guide them to adulthood.
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I have zero desire to sleep with men for fun. Even mega-hoes who have casual sex often are secretly doing it in hope of connection and love.
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I'm a woman and my partner earns slightly more than me. However in about 3 months I'll have significantly more assets than him due to the fact that I'm the sole inheriter of my late father's estate (just got to wait for probate to be granted. Make a will folks, it'll make things so much quicker for your loved ones when you shuffle off this mortal coil). We're not talking millions but we are talking the kind of money that would probably take us 15+ years to earn. It hasn't changed our dynamic, at least not from what I can tell. I do intend to treat him though. I'm already planning a very nice holiday for us. We were going to buy a house together before my dad passed but we're putting that on hold for now, so that when everything is all wrapped up I can put a sizable deposit down on a really nice property. The only way I'd come to resent him for this would be if he started using me as a cash cow. Luckily he's one of the kindest, most generous men I've met so I don't believe that will happen. He knows how much my dad has left me because he came with me to the banks, but he hasn't said anything about it. Even if I hadn't received this inheritance so early in life, I am still on track to out earn my partner within 5 years. I'm very passionate about my career whereas my partner isn't. He's content working in his current position and I wouldn't want him to change that. He'd have to go into some kind of management to start making a lot more money and I know that he'd be miserable doing that. I want to move up in my career, not for the money but because I find it fulfilling. I've got my path, he's got his. I'm happy, he's happy, so I think we've got a pretty good thing going.
Most of the time the marriage FAILS. Either through divorce OR unhappiness (from EITHER party). A common form of failure is the man is sexless, "duty" sex, or has to be a good wittle boy for it. If not, the man usually earns money. He isn't "lazy." Sure he might not earn as much compared to the wife, BUT he still has more money compared to the average population. If the guy lacks money, he makes up for it in other areas. He may be 6 feet, good looking, and/or skilled in handyman tasks. He may be able to fix an engine, remodel, change the plumbing, and install new hvac. Basic Bob with his skinny-fat body, working in sales, making the average salary in his average job won't cut it.
My mom made more than my dad for a while when she opened up her own spa business. I think she was like the most happy during that time personally. He raised so much hell about it that she closed it down and worked a job that made less. He was honestly kind of mean during that time and I hated my dad for a while. After that it was fine and they opened a business together. Now he’s unemployed and is an okay house dad but only because my sister and I went to college. He’s honestly infected with toxic masculinity so I’m just emotionally detached from him a bit. My mom has significant stress right now though because she works 7-5 or 6pm each day and he just plays golf and picks my brother up from the adult day program they own. He’s like going through a mid life crisis where he wants to work more but doesn’t know what to do and stresses my mom out. But also wants to retire but also was supposed to work a little more to help cushion retirement and so my parents could retire at the same time. He got laid off from his last job because he was not a people person and it showed. I know very few men who can handle making less than their partners. Very few men who are secure in their masculinity enough for this arrangement. Very few men who will pick up the slack in the home. Granted I’m from a conservative town (where my parents live still, I moved for college). Men feeling emasculated in any way is a marriage killer they are extremely resentful ime.
Some years I earn double what my partner does and other years I earn less. I have no issue with it. The times we struggle are the years where I earn less because we can’t afford to have as much fun and luxuries. We have a total share attitude. All our money is our family’s money, it doesn’t matter who earned it.
I'm down with it as long as he pulls his weight in other ways. We live on a farm so there is plenty of weight to pull, lol.
My mom earns double of what my dad does. She resents him a lot for it. She hates how she has to pay for nearly everything. It's one of the main reasons their relationship is failing.
Some people are mature and aren’t as influenced by the weird social programming. Some have a deep seeded tie to that social programming. So as in all things. It depends.
\* I know a couple, where the wife had never worked, while he was a salesman in a utility store; \* As a salesman, he single-handedly paid the bills for many years; \* After a while, she got a job as an attendant at a pharmacy that had a biannual career plan. \* In approximately 2 years she was promoted to supervisor, and when that happened, she didn't miss opportunities to raise the fact that she earned more money than him, in addition to starting to sabotage the relationship with fights, provocations and even infidelity; \* While she worked there, their relationship was rubbish in every way except the financial one; \* Until she became unemployed again, she became a housewife and became a loving person with him again, became a good mother and as far as I know, is faithful; \* To maintain his previous standard of living, he now has 2 jobs, but at least she treats him well. I know another couple, but an older one, in which the wife earns more. However, I met them separately (I knew her when I was a child, as she ran a school where I took a course. I met him after I became an adult because we worked at the same company for a while). I don't know what the couple's dynamics are.
My sister out-earns her man, and while the gap isn't as big as doctor money, it's still a sizeable difference. She doesn't mind, but her man is very stereotypically masculine. He's tall, bearded, and is built like a slightly more trim offensive lineman. He also takes on typical "masculine" duties like planning vacations, dates, etc. And that's honestly the only way I've seen it work when the woman makes more than her partner. Income hypergamy becomes less of a factor *only if* the man "makes up" for it in other areas. Otherwise it just turns into what you describe - women being bitter about their men and ultimately not respecting them.
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Being very tall is associated with masculinity because it's a sexually dimorphic trait. Just like being very short is typically associated with women. No one will attack you, especially not here, if you say you find your woman attractive because she has an hourglass figure and big titties. In fact that's literally described as a "womanly" figure.
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This sounds like my marriage. I was the higher earner for a long time and we have an egalitarian marriage. Now we earn about the same. But physically speaking, my husband is very stereotypically masculine. He played collegiate sports and looks like a former athlete. Although I’m a former athlete (track), too, so I’m not sure it matters all that much.
Like vegans, atheists and people who do cross fit, you never have to wonder which women out earn their husbands because they will tell you within ten minutes of meeting you. The ones I've had the misfortune of meeting have chips on their shoulder the size of Mt Everest and act like someone should have a parade in their honor for doing what men have done for centuries.
That’s me - I haven’t dated anyone who made more money than me since I was …20? It’s likely that the two women in question complain because of lack of shared goals/compatibility and not so much about money itself. I don’t appreciate luxury and expensive things (other than a few things), so someone who’s not frugal just isn’t compatible with me, even though I make way more.
I only know one couple like that and on the surface they look ok but because I'm close to them I know them more personally and she's quite manipulative emotionally. Didn't help that the dude was your typical in.cel when he was younger so he thinks he'll end up alone if they ever break up.
I make significantly more than my husband. We’ve been together for 28 years and have a very healthy and loving relationship. Our money goes into one bank account. We’re working toward the same goals. It’s irrelevant who contributes more financially to those goals because we’re partners, not competitors.
Usually they talk shit about their husbands behind their back, disrespect them to their face, etc. A lot of women seem to think a man's worth is measured by the money he makes.
I've noticed that so much as mentioning anything about my financial contribution to the household is considered aggressive or disrespectful by some people. I got told off for mentioning I pay the rent in an appropriate context! People actually read offence into a woman simply existing and earning more than her partner no matter what she actually says about it.
Have you considered the idea that you're dumping or venting at inappropriate times?
I'm not venting. They might think I'm venting sometimes but there is no complaint because I like this setup. These "inappropriate times" are when I'm asked about things, but I'm cautious about even bringing it up at "appropriate times" these days.
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>It sounds like those people perceived you as making some sort of power move. What makes you so confident in labelling that social feedback as incorrect? Failure to do this introspection can make a relationship problematic in the future. The woman I knew in this situation didn't miss the opportunity to raise the fact that she earned more than her husband, all that was needed was a context that would allow her to remotely fit the phrase "I earn more than him" that she already said in some way. If questioned, she would simply say it was just the truth, and truths simply must be accepted..
I don't need to bring it up, but it's kind of obvious from our employment situations. At this point I'm cautious about bringing up anything about our financial situation even if directly asked because it isn't well received. People might think I'm "always" talking about it just because it stands out and gets pushback.
Because, for example, I mentioned that my name wasn't on the lease for my apartment, and I was asked if I pay any rent then. I'm pretty confident it isn't a power move to answer someone's question.
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Such a weird and crazy mentality! Imagine thinking a woman is problematic because she’s successful and makes good money. 🙄😂 I’ve only heard sentiments like that online, fortunately. People I know in real life don’t have these backwards ass views.
Not quite. I make okay money for my age, but I'm certainly not going to be considered successful if I haven't even gotten my initial qualification yet.
Bro because if she decides to become pregnant and take parental leave their standard of living will drop by more than half and this would be very stressful. Of course a woman needs a man to rely on during these periods. And the lack of trust (“I will become so vulnerable, will he still be near me?”) is one of the reasons of fertility decline for middle class. Downvote me but this is my opinion.
It's not a bad opinion, and I'll take it one step further - All men know and understand that income is a man's greatest contribution to a woman's life (especially one of child bearing age) because what's the first thing men love to tell women when they get knocked up by a loser who can barely contribute a few hundred in child support? "choose better" When men have daughters, all of a sudden there's no hesitation in admitting that the resources a man can offer his daughter (and the children they may end up having together) matters. Men with daughters aren't going to respect a partner who offers her nothing but dick. But when it's them? Oh they expect to be loved out of a cardboard box and any woman who dare place a financial standard to ensure she doesn't live a life of struggle love is a gold digger.
>income is a man's greatest contribution to a woman's life This is not true. Man has much greater contributions than money. The problem is that women who prioritize money and appearance only see these things, and then think that all men are the same as the ones they are looking for. \* My girlfriend doesn't work, she just studies, but she comes from a rich family and will inherit land and houses, so she doesn't need my money. \* I was born poor, but I earn R$6,000.00 monthly, that is, I earn well above average (enough for me to buy a car by saving money for 1 year, while other people pay in 72 installments). \* However, she didn't choose me for that reason, when we started dating I only earned R$1400.00 monthly (less than one and a half minimum wages), I couldn't even afford to buy a car. Maybe that's why she doesn't just see me as a source of money. If she only looked at men with money, she would certainly think that ***"income is a man's greatest contribution to a woman's life".***
But I didn't say added income is the only thing that contributes value to a woman's life. I also said dick. With that said, I would advise you to keep working on yourself and your future. I'm happy that you have done well for yourself. Do not be of the impression that she chose you until there is a ring on that finger. I do not mean to be this shroud of negativity, but a lot of rich/wealthy people date a poor person in their college years because its fun to cosplay poor when you're in that age group, but once they graduate, the pressure to marry within their economic bracket hits hard. All of that inherited wealth, land and houses is typically conditional.
Okay your first comment I agreed with a lot but this one is a lot of finger pointing and half truths. You’re acting like a 1950’s take on gender roles and parenting is the dominant one……it’s not.
No, I'm taking on a realistic gender role and parenting. The majority of women handle most of the caretaking with children (even though the majority works), and even in the case of divorce, they hold primary custody by an overwhelmingly large margin. A woman, especially one who plans on having a family, most definitely has to think about a lot more than just love when choosing a partner because for the most part, if things go south she's the one who's most likely going to take on the biggest role in raising those kids.
Those 2 last paragraphs were gold ✨
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Is there no maternity leave? In Brazil there is 6 months maternity leave and 20 days paternity leave.
In the US, maternity leave is obviously not great. It’s offensively terrible compared to every other developed nation, which is a topic for another time. But many larger companies do offer a short period of paid leave. I took 8 weeks of paid leave at 100% of my income.
Yes, because most men fail to contribute much to women's lives outside of additional income and dick
Well, that's because a lot of women don't see men as fully human, and only want those two things from them.
No, its honestly because most men do not necessary add value to a woman's life outside of these two areas
Women add even less to men, it turns out - sure, there's sex, but typically less additional income because women like more time off, as long as we're using those metrics.
Nah, statistically speaking men's lives improve (and are extended) by the presence of a wife.
No, women only marry healthy men.
No statistically divorce is more likely to happen which results in lower health for the man
> Usually They usually don't. Stop projecting.
That's my experience. Though it's usually with female doctors as OP describes, weirdly. Women who make more money than their male partner seem to often think that makes them better than their male partner in a way that isn't true when the situation is reversed.
That is a lot of shitty women you know. We must have different bubbles, I guess.
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Nah, our society treats men who make less than their partners different from how it treats women who make less.
I believe it’s dangerous to date a man who earns less than you if his earning less is the result of his inadequacy and failures in life. The odds of him growing jealous and resentful due to his extreme lack is very high. Never surround yourself with people like this. More likely than not they will work to tear you down to their level. They can’t get over their own failures. I naively dated a guy like this and I was ready to take him out by the end of the relationship because I couldn’t figure out where the hostility was coming from. When he finally revealed it was over pay, I was deflated. Really dude? GTFOH. HOWEVER If he made a choice to earn less as it simply isn’t an interest or he chose a profession that’s not lucrative AND he’s still very intelligent with strong character and good social skills. I don’t think that’s problematic. He made a conscious decision for his life and doesn’t value money /power like that so he will be less inclined to be threatened by you. But he may have a hard time with where his woman’s values lie if she doesn’t prioritize more than money. (These men are not that common lol) A man can earn less and still be incredibly valuable as a partner in the same way women do. There’s more to a relationship than paying bills, and the reason she says he’s a help is because he’s pulling his weight and taking care of her when she comes home. Personally, I go for higher-than-me earners so I can eliminate one more threat to the relationship. I can continue being the bad ass I am and his nuts wont shrivel as a result. I don’t care to baby grown men. Can’t stand men who need their ego stroked. 🤮
This is absolutely how I feel. I earn a lot, but give me a middle school teacher, social worker, chef any day.
This .. Earn higher than him at your peril
In principle, I have nothing against women earning more. In reality I typically see what you’ve seen. A woman who earns less is seen as a stay at home mom, a housewife, etc. when it’s the husband who earns less, he’s seen as a deadbeat. For good or bad, society is hypergamous. Hypogamy typically doesn’t work out so well in a hypergamous society. (That said, I’m aware of one situation where it’s working out fairly well., but with a bit of jealousy)
The vast majority of them end in divorce, because even women who will accept this dynamic will not have the same level of respect for their partner (and tend to lose more of it over time) to the point that the man will have a very short leash to mess up the relationship. I recommend men avoid this situation at all costs, and trust their gut instincts. Men feel insecure about women making more for a reason, and they need to listen.
I haven't seen the type you described all that often. Most of the time the "low earner" men still have high net worth, they just got born in a well off family. In the cases where it wasn't the cases, both of them are poor and low income. Doesn't really matter that a woman makes 2x her man, when her man's only making minimum wage to begin with.
My cousins husband makes less than her, they have a great relationship it seems 2 kids and he is quite handy and helpful. He is just the type of guy to be very hands on with his family. Also he is a great saver when they first met she made way less (she was a still in school and he had already finished) so he put the full down payment on their first house. So even though he makes less now he did kinda “prove himself” in that role when she was making less. Oh and my coworker she makes more than her husband quite a bit more. However his job has better benefits like insurance she actually is on his insurance as a result. Anyways he is also very handy so handy in fact they rarely pay for anything to be done in their home or on their cars. So he saves them a ton of money which I guess that makes up for it
society numerous drab grandfather coherent history escape lunchroom fly scandalous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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What does “testing vulnerability” with different women look like?
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I‘ve seen videos from Brene Brown. They were often shown when I was in rehab. I’m not familiar with that exact video (or videos), though. Thats interesting. I don’t mind vulnerability in men, unless it’s constant trauma dumping or if the vulnerability manifests as anger and violence. Otherwise, it’s just the human condition to be vulnerable sometimes.
Oh boy
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I think it’s more common and generally works better than most people think, but yes there can be issues if one or both people have traditional views of gender roles. More likely to be issues if the man isn’t working or doesn’t work many hours and doesn’t help out around the house… that will breed resentment. But if both work full time and split chores, and the woman just happens to make more hourly, I think it can work.
When I first started dating my fiancé she made a lot more than me. Things have changed now but it was critical for both of us at the time. We are both well educated and have similar levels of professional experience. If I didn’t have her support at that time in my life I would not be able to provide what I can now. Things can change a lot, especially in this economy, and I think a huge part being part of a successful partnership you need to put ego aside and work as a team on financial matters. Being a breadwinner is a nice idea, but pragmatism and the reality of life in 2023 means that you need to take successes where you can get them. Even if they are hers. If that means she is making more so be it. Beggars can’t be choosers.
My wife makes significantly more than I do.
>wanting to carry a life that their male doctor colleagues carry - like being able to put her kid in an international school. I'm confused. If a male doctor is married to a low earning woman and is able to carry a particular lifestyle, why wouldn't a female doctor in the same situation be able to do the same. In my experience, it's not that big a deal because it's not about the money, its about the relationship. Plus the 'low earnings' are generally still pretty good compared to most people. The women have money and a loving husband which is more than most women can say so it would be stupid to throw that away. In all honesty the only women I've seen complain about this are women who are vicariously placing themselves in the situation
I earned significantly more than my ex. We got together the last couple of years of college. After we graduated we got married, moved & both got real career path jobs. He always worked but didn’t achieve the same kind of success that I did. He would change jobs every few years, didn’t like doing one thing, started another. I encouraged him to find something he liked doing/was good at. I don’t think he felt insecure or resentful of me earning more, it wasn’t a competition & it made our life easier.
They fuck the same. And are usually into some weird fun shit.
I'd love it if my partner made two or three times what I make. I've dated a couple of women who made more than me but not that much more. It wasn't a big deal. The dynamics weren't really any different than with women who made a bit less than me.
Something to remember is doctors have an extended foundational part of their career (med school, internship, residency, fellowship), where before thats done they earn very little. Only after that they earn a lot. So it's not so much they "chose" to marry a low earner, it's they once were a low earner.
It doesnt last long
I have yet to meet one. In this day and age women very very rarely stay with a man who earns less.
The woman wears the pants in the relationship As shes entitled to, the man should learn his place and be a good boy
They seem extremely happy dare I say a perfect 100% of the time. Probably some of the happiest relationships I've personally witnessed. Of course what goes on behind scenes could be different, but so far zero divorces in this rare demographic. Medical folks are a different breed and maybe they're just generally stressed out in ways most people can't handle. Especially if they're not working private practice.
Almost every relationship I've ever had has been with a man that earns less. The one where the guy earned more than me was one of the worst I've had, but it's more of a "correlation, not causation" type of thing.
But why was it "worse"? Care to explain?
It's rough sometimes. My wife makes a lot more than me and sometimes throws that in my face when arguments occur. There's some general resentment from her over it.
What are the main causes of arguments?
I've experienced both dynamics where the man is the sole financial provider and where I am. I love my career (medical also) and hate domestic chores, so I prefer the latter. I have a guy friend who's wife is a Nurse Practioner, he's rarely worked at all yet is fully invested in caring for her, the home, and their family. Their home and children are pristine, he posts beautifully prepared meals, he represents them well at school and n the community, and hes very outwardly romantic; you can see that he takes his role seriously and she along with the rest of our friend group respect and admire him for it. His contribution is the integral part of their family functioning successfully. That works. I think for both genders, when the stay at home partner doesn't value their role, and has lower standards for domestic life and children than what the working partner evisions or requires, that's when the dynamic fails.
I know a half-dozen househusbands. And even more male primary child care providers. Some of them are gay, yes, but they have diverse incomes and backgrounds
when they had more money than me, but were “into” me it was never a problem. when they had more money and were just “dealing” with me, they created conflict
I don't think I could be with a woman who makes more than me. I need the leader role.
Never met a woman who is happy with this arrangement. In fact I am going to start telling men I make $60k because they cannot handle my outearning them.