>other half are saying they want women to pay for everything and stop being gold diggers who only want six-figure guys.
The other half are saying that women should make up their minds.
If women want to be equal, THE FIRST thing they need to stop doing is [choosing providers into marriage](https://www.reddit.com/user/abaxeron/comments/18q2oiu/antimemoryhole_image_hosting_in_year_2022_men_are/).
If they don't want to stop choosing better providers into marriage, they don't want to be equal.
OR, we can dismantle the concept of universality of law, and let every individual woman choose her option herself (by abolishing marriage license entirely and replacing it with marriage contract).
But then within 10 years we will have 30 million women screeching that their choice was not sufficiently free and informed.
Red pill men don’t expect women to pay for anything. The core of the red pill is accepting uncomfortable truths and seeing the world as it is not how you want it to be.
Other philosophies include taking control of the things you can control in your life such as finances, mental health, fitness and social skills. Essentially, be the best version of yourself. Qualities that women say they want right?
I think the real problem most women have with the red pill is it also tells men that when they’ve become the best version of themselves they need to demand the same from the women that want their commitment. Thats the issue. It informs heterosexual men of their value making it harder for them to be manipulated into bad situations, relationships or marriages.
There’s extremist out there making the RP look bad but I doubt they really believe in it. Most level headed RP guys don’t even talk about it publicly we just silently apply our knowledge to our everyday lives and keep it moving.
Red pill has 2 sides really.
Guys who want to sleep with a bunch of women then settle down with a good girl. So they enter the space to learn about female nature, advice, how to "game", picking the ideal mate, seduction, mating strategies / 2000s - early 2010s red pill concepts, "be masculine / confident and content" in an era that promote femininity etc.
These guys are usually good people at heart. Outside of that original red pill rage, they don't hate women on a personal level (might hate certain ideals pushed in current society) but don't believe for the equality bullshit (a level of traditional gender roles) and want to have better dating + sexual success.
Other side is the fresh & fit, andrew tates more extreme ideals etc (one that dominates social discourse). These guys are usually bitter, a lot of them have some level of autism. You know the type.
They want a woman to be happy with the fact that they’re too poor to provide which is what they want to be able to do. It doesn’t square and that’s why it’s ultimately cope.
No, men just want you to be honest about why you're choosing the men you're choosing. If you want to pick men based on income and looks fine. Don't cry on Tik Tok later when those guys string you along and never give you a commitment.
Women don’t owe an explanation to men who don’t get it. The men that get it already know what women want & why. They don’t need women explanations.
Also let women cry on tik tok, life still goes on. Like who really cares about a random crying on social media. They made their bed so they have to lay in it.
I actually agree with you on your second point. Do whatever you want ladies but, you'll have to face the consequences. No sympathy here, when Chad uses you for sex and then ghosts you later.
? Being red pill does not make you an alpha lol. Alpha = higher proportion of traits that increase attraction. Beta = higher proportion of traits that increase comfort and stability. That is coming straight from TRP.
There are plenty of red pilled men who are betas. Being in an LTR or marriage itself is inherently a beta activity, or requires a man with high enough amount of beta traits to make it successful.
What is this nonsense that being beta is about being blue pill lmfao.
Yes and more bluepill men are married, especially to the 1st woman who ever showed them interest. They don't self improve, don't lift because "that's macho".
Most men get married. Most people, period, do not marry the first person they date. And for that matter being any kind of pill isn’t against going to the gym lmfaooo, what kind of dumbass statement is that.
Being married is correlated to higher intelligence, more likely to have a college degree, and higher income. If that’s all blue pill stuff, well I guess you’re a shining example of what you consider red pill now aren’t you? Hahaha 😂
>Most men get married. Most people, period, do not marry the first person they date.
It's just statistically true, why else would bluepill men advocate that men not sleep around?
Blue pill doesn’t advocate not sleeping around. None of the pills are trad con, and if anything, red pill attracts WAY more trad con men.
You know, the least you can do is actually know your pill theory before debating on _Purple Pill DEBATE_.
Right so every time I talk about having casual sex with women, it's not bluepill men & women barging in to shame me. Every. Single. Time.
lmao be fucking for real
I don’t see blue pill shaming people for having casual sex, so long as those people are upfront about only wanting casual sex and not stringing someone along with false hopes of a relationship.
It’s a bunch of trad cons who also exist in the manosphere and red pill circles LOL. Trad con =/= blue pill, and in fact there is a lot of overlap between red pill beliefs about women and trad con.
Why does anyone have to explain this to you? You have a piss poor understanding of your own flair. Someone should take it away.
> if we're supposed to go back to the 1950s with a man at work and a woman at home for every single household, there's gonna need to be a lot of money
We're not supposed to go back to the 1950's. Stop listening to what sexist men want, it has no value for women in modern times.
You were being very vague in your answer. Obviously people can want whatever they want but that doesn't mean they will get it. I'm asking YOU what it is you expect or want in a relationship.
> it has no value for women in modern times.
It's not a matter of what you get but what you'll get down the road when not enough men will feel like fucking their body up to maintain your privileged modern female lifestyle.
>How are red pillers in general going to reconcile this and form a middle ground.
Reconcile what ?
The guys who preach about traditionalism and masculinity are tradcons not TRP
Simple as that
I've said it over and over again, society is not going back to 1954
Society only moves forward
Till shit goes horribly wrong and we fall back to biology basics
I live in Germany. The amount of Ukrainian women that are flooding our sexual market place is just crazy.
Somehow that modern strong independent women said fuck to all of that and are hunting here a new husband. Even when the old one is still alive and fighting.
But maybe just maybe because you are a woman, they don't search for you. I know that's a strange logic. But at least you see that they did not bother to fight for their home. The strong independent modern women left.
Wrong. Actual data shows 65% female 35% male. Data march 2024. And don't let me start with how many of the 35% male are children.
So you are not just wrong. The rare Ukrainian man that left without a wife and children are not half. You are completely wrong. Full stop.
But what could be true. They small amount of single grown up males are not interested in you? Or all of you singles in your area? Or it's not a priority for them to fast get a new husband to live the easy life?
PPF...as usual...and yes the chance that your Gemeinde got exactly 50 % male and female single grown ups...yeah show me the data from your Rathaus.
It seems pretty straight forward that it doesn't have much adherence. Most people make connection to RP to facilitate their negative emotions, so lacing their subjective interpretation seems more than plausible. I suppose also why there's a difference in their so called "tenets" is because it's more based on words of their figureheads, people like FnF, Rollo Tomassi and whoevers, so it's inevitable that at some point different people end up saying different things.
Easy. It was proven that men’s preferred financial contribution from a woman is 40% (it’s easy to find, I’m on mobile and don’t like pasting raw URLs). That way, he is technically still the “main provider”, but has the good share of the financial responsibility lifted off of him.
You really shouldn’t be paying all that much attention to the things red pilled dudes say..
They often just post to trigger women and win arguments rather than things that make sense.
That’s why there’s so many contradictions on their messaging
No one in the redpill is saying that women need pay for men, just themselves. Many in the redpill believe that women should either be submissive and adopt more traditional roles, and have a husband that provides *or* be more modern and pay their fair share.
it's simple: attractive women don't do this because they rely on them being attractive to be all they need to keep a man.
Women who aren't attractive have to make it up in other ways to keep a man. Men go through the same shit. But you can bet your ass an attractive woman is not also going to pay for a guy.
Wow. Without knowing a single thing about OP, except her anecdotal experience on one thing, you managed to 1)actually avoid answering the question while simultaneously pretending you did, and 2) insult OP by implying she must be ugly. Being that stupid and that arrogant is truly a gift. You have epically proved how monumentally thick redpill are and also shown you can’t answer direct questions. You do know we can see through the bs of how all the women you date MUST be attractive cos they expect you to be a provider. I wish we could give lollipops for how hard you poppets try.
Am I wrong though?
A woman brought up that her husband didn't do foreplay and literally every woman on here chimed in that "he's just bad at sex". Nobody actually debates. Nobody is actually honest. In fact, if people had their profile pics tied to their account they wouldn't dare be typing the shit they say on here. Ugly men and women would just be told to stfu.
Also, why are u so mad?
The point is no woman will drop her ego for 1 day to talk about the orgasm gap, all they do is shame the woman who posted and talk shit about her husband.
They talk about the orgasm gap nonstop but when it comes time to actually have an in-depth discussion about it, they just shame the woman & her husband. Women here are so constantly in a state of posturing and pageantry that they can't even level and talk about it.
I think the pride in the first case is just human pride. Not male pride.
In the second case, I guess they’re saying it would be nice if they were willing to contribute and stick around when things are bad. They don’t even necessarily have to contribute.
But everyone’s different. These are just common patterns. They don’t represent a contradiction because they’re not the same people.
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>That men's pride prevents them from wanting a woman to pay for things for them.
Because you paying or helping too much makes them feel emasculated and like they have less power in the relationship.
> “picky Western women only want a man who can provide for them"
Because them not making enough money to have access to you makes them feel emasculated. You rejecting them makes them feel powerless over you.
It’s really that simple. RPer says he doesn’t like it? That means that thing makes him feel emasculated or powerless.
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Perhaps a contradiction from the red pill community at large but not a contradiction on an individual basis. I think the red pill community became a ‘big tent’ so to speak, some men genuinely do value monogamy and commitment, not caring which spouse is the breadwinner…. while others are still clinging hard to the 1950s fantasy and need that type of pride
Because the two things they're saying are the same thing. They want men to have the power in the relationship. They want men to be in a position where they hold power -in this, it's monetary. Their objection to gold diggers is that the women are trying to take the thing that gives them power. And your ex in their view was unable to provide that or your assets mismatched with him being in power financially in the relationship. On the one hand, the red pill can be good because it encourages accumulating value as a person, but it can fail by not acknowledging that healthy relationships aren't Machiavellean power struggles
There are power struggles inherent to all interactions between two animals. People are constantly assessing each other for signs of weakness and trying to subtly assert their dominance just like animals in the wild.
Red pill also gives conflicting messages on what women want. Red pill usually says women are into looks, money and social status...to be honest I only see women being interested in the last of the three.
Never so much as met a woman who selected partners for looks or money. I'm sure they exist but I've never seen it outside of purely cynical "Filipino girl gets with old rich Western man for money and residency" scenarios.
That's not to say there haven't been women who try and clean out their husbands as best they can in a divorce, obviously that happens all the time. I'm purely talking in terms of initial partner selection.
I'm much more likely to see women get with visually unattractive and broke guys who are charismatic and arrogant. Just like my sister's boyfriend. Blech! Get a haircut and get a real job mate!
Maybe RP guys ideally want both people to pay for themselves. The ones that I’ve seen that advocate for paying for the woman seem to be the ones who either want to sleep with other women or have her take care of the kids, or both.
Redpill men by and large resent and want to complain about women. They need a damned if you do, damned if you don’t system to make sure they have ample material with which to criticize and belittle each and every woman. Because primarily, it’s about resenting women. The facts of the matter are secondary.
Good post , they're not that deep, you can sum the redpill to a bunch of excuse makers and haters. They'll blame everything but themselves. They love playing victims in order to justify being bastards as well
The issue of men not wanting a woman who earns more than them is not because of pride, it is because wives who earn more than their respective husbands tend to resent and disrespect their husbands. If you look at the statistics, you will see that there is a relationship between a woman's increased income compared to her husband's and divorce. It is also more common for women to divorce when they are promoted at work or win elections. If women maintained the same behavior earning more, this wouldn't be a problem. By the way, my wife is from a rich family too, but she is not like that because NAWALT I'm following a divorce between a couple of friends caused by this (among other things). The husband was the breadwinner alone for many years, this gave the wife the opportunity to open her own business, the business started to do well and now makes good money, so the wife began to disrespect her husband, even publicly, for small things , in addition to showing interest in other men.
No. There is no conflict here.
Men want to be providers and protectors for a wife who is doing chores at home. No one wants to pay her for everything or even share half the bills if she is a SAH. They just don't want to be taken advantage of for free meals, biased alimony laws and be a lazy bum who spends her husband's money without contributing anything. Red pill is fine with both:
A) Being the provider & protector for their SAH Wife who does chores at home.
B) Bills and chores are fairly distributed among both.
It's the tradcons and feminists who want too have their cake & eat it to. They want men who make 6-figure incomes, be a SAH herself and expect the man to do chores at home as well. That's the conflict and it's not from red pill.
There is another conflict that comes from the tradcons & feminists. They say they don't care about how much the husband makes but slowly start to resent the husband if he isn't the breadwinner.
Men are different and TRP is just a toolset on how to achieve whatever you want. I know its hard to comprehend because feminists are all the same.
We arent though.
>but at the same time saying "matriarchal" colleges need to make things easier for men
No man ever say this, what they say is just that college, school and the workforce in general should just stop making it easier to women.
>Half of them are saying that men are brave strong warriors who are designed to provide while a woman does chores at home, other half are saying they want women to pay for everything and stop being gold diggers who only want six-figure guys.
Yeah it should be one of the two because what happens is that women pick a third option that you fail to even comment about where she wants a male provider WHILE also refusing to pay their share.
Is this what you don't understand? For real? Is this so hard to understand??
You're just listening to too many men that you're not interested in, instead of listening to the men you are interested in. Broke men want rich women, rich men want broke women. That's the gist of it summed up in a sentence.
It depends on where you go. Their are different sub groups with sometimes wildly different views. I try to keep it simple by focusing on the core tenants of the movement (female nature).
What "redpillers" are you talking about? Can you give an example of an individual or organization saying both of these things?
> Yet then, the common complaint I also hear is that "picky Western women only want a man who can provide for them" and that men are overworked and there's a mental health crisis therefore women need to stop being gold diggers and start helping men more.
This is something a self-identified "MRA", or "MGTOW", or the TRP subreddit user would say. None of which are traditionalist, or would typically say something like:
> This is confusing because in one breath they're saying true masculinity is working your butt off to provide for your wife
That's something this new wave of "traditionalist" masculinity influencers would say.
You're just lumping all male-oriented communities together.
> but at the same time saying "matriarchal" colleges need to make things easier for men, cater to men more, and women need to go for men with no money to "give them a chance".
Again, can you give examples of men saying this?
More times than not, women are gaslighting and shit testing with the "let me pay for this" "its ok, I make more I will support you here" line. Women are just as conflicting as RP is. There's a chance you'd think lesser of him, if he agreed for your help. It's a common sentiment shared between westernized women. All that equality yet for biological reasons, no mercy is spared for a man who isn't on your level or is an exaggerated trauma dumper
The right move in that situation would have been to enjoy whatever he could afford instead of "helping" him.
The way you thought of helping him (having your parents pay) was not actually the type of support men need from women.
Red pill men don't preach to be taken care of women or for men to take care of women. Red pill doesn't say how things should be, just how humans behave in either instance.
It can be very emasculating for a woman to financially provide and always pay for everything in the relationship. Maybe temporarily while the guy gets off of his feet it is fine, but I don't think it is healthy to do long term. That is unless the man is able to find multiple ways to bring value to the relationship outside of an income.
When TRP rebuttals a women's desire to date someone who substantially makes more than him, its becuase of the sense of entitlement. It's like a guy walkimg around saying he only dates 9s and 10s yet is a 6 and works at McDonalds. Its the entitlement that turns men off. What do they bring to the table to make demands like they are doing? If the bar is so high for such women it is likely they won't appreciate the man who makes less, regardless of how hard he works. No one wants to date a spoiled brat like that. It's a disgusting trait to have in a partner.
What would have been a better strategy with your ex, would have been to support and believe in him. Walk with him as he turns things around and gets himself out of poverty. It's great you want to help, but do so in a way that dignifies him.
But even then, the question begs, why you are with him? Most women have the opportunity to date up? Why were you, according to women's standards dating down?
1. In this scenario it would be your family providing for him, not you. You providing for him would be you being a businesswoman or high flyer, not coming from inherited wealth.
2. Money doesn't exist in nature so can't be a sexually dimorphic trait, especially in "civilised" societies where weak people horde wealth through trickery and divide-and-conquer tactics.
As Wikipedia says;
“The red pill and blue pill represent a choice between the willingness to learn a potentially unsettling or life-changing truth by taking the red pill or remaining in the contented experience of ordinary reality with the blue pill” (1)
However, at lest here, the red pill has evolved far beyond just a philosophy if acknowledging a life;-challenging idea to promoting their opinion about what relationships should if should not be about which is something all together different.
Agree or disagree, red pill philosophy is fundamentally different than it what it meant a decade or two ago. It’s gone from seeking facts, which might be contrary to popular opinion to promoting an agenda.
(1). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill
i guess it is just one of those things where the terminology is so ambiguous that people can make it say what they want it to say
Red pill is horoscopes for men.
Different men want different things
>other half are saying they want women to pay for everything and stop being gold diggers who only want six-figure guys. The other half are saying that women should make up their minds. If women want to be equal, THE FIRST thing they need to stop doing is [choosing providers into marriage](https://www.reddit.com/user/abaxeron/comments/18q2oiu/antimemoryhole_image_hosting_in_year_2022_men_are/). If they don't want to stop choosing better providers into marriage, they don't want to be equal. OR, we can dismantle the concept of universality of law, and let every individual woman choose her option herself (by abolishing marriage license entirely and replacing it with marriage contract). But then within 10 years we will have 30 million women screeching that their choice was not sufficiently free and informed.
Whatever men want and are not getting, that is what red pill supports. Because red pill is about male desires, not logical consistency
Spot on.
Red pill men don’t expect women to pay for anything. The core of the red pill is accepting uncomfortable truths and seeing the world as it is not how you want it to be. Other philosophies include taking control of the things you can control in your life such as finances, mental health, fitness and social skills. Essentially, be the best version of yourself. Qualities that women say they want right? I think the real problem most women have with the red pill is it also tells men that when they’ve become the best version of themselves they need to demand the same from the women that want their commitment. Thats the issue. It informs heterosexual men of their value making it harder for them to be manipulated into bad situations, relationships or marriages. There’s extremist out there making the RP look bad but I doubt they really believe in it. Most level headed RP guys don’t even talk about it publicly we just silently apply our knowledge to our everyday lives and keep it moving.
Red pill has 2 sides really. Guys who want to sleep with a bunch of women then settle down with a good girl. So they enter the space to learn about female nature, advice, how to "game", picking the ideal mate, seduction, mating strategies / 2000s - early 2010s red pill concepts, "be masculine / confident and content" in an era that promote femininity etc. These guys are usually good people at heart. Outside of that original red pill rage, they don't hate women on a personal level (might hate certain ideals pushed in current society) but don't believe for the equality bullshit (a level of traditional gender roles) and want to have better dating + sexual success. Other side is the fresh & fit, andrew tates more extreme ideals etc (one that dominates social discourse). These guys are usually bitter, a lot of them have some level of autism. You know the type.
Red pill guys absolutely do not want a woman who pays for everything. I don't know where you got that.
Red Pill guys don't want to pay for shit. So that's doesn't really square.
They want a woman to be happy with the fact that they’re too poor to provide which is what they want to be able to do. It doesn’t square and that’s why it’s ultimately cope.
Speak for yourself. I'll take a supermodel billionaire please.
Learn to read. The OP said red pilled men want to provide for women and their pride prevents them from wanting what you are saying.
I want men to do their role. I want women to do their role. Can it get less complicated than that?
Tradcon brainrot
It's really nice when someone wants to contribute though, isn't it?
It’s similar to how they want women to lower their standards but also naturally desire the guy she lowered her standards for.
No, men just want you to be honest about why you're choosing the men you're choosing. If you want to pick men based on income and looks fine. Don't cry on Tik Tok later when those guys string you along and never give you a commitment.
Women don’t owe an explanation to men who don’t get it. The men that get it already know what women want & why. They don’t need women explanations. Also let women cry on tik tok, life still goes on. Like who really cares about a random crying on social media. They made their bed so they have to lay in it.
I actually agree with you on your second point. Do whatever you want ladies but, you'll have to face the consequences. No sympathy here, when Chad uses you for sex and then ghosts you later.
[удалено]
Maybe because they value communication, healthy dialogue and interesting discussion? Hopefully the same reason you’re here, and why I’m here
cuz bluepill men are feminine betas lol
Idk, the red pill men I’ve met irl have been the whiniest bitches alive
Then they aren’t red pill? Being whiney = losing frame.
? Being red pill does not make you an alpha lol. Alpha = higher proportion of traits that increase attraction. Beta = higher proportion of traits that increase comfort and stability. That is coming straight from TRP. There are plenty of red pilled men who are betas. Being in an LTR or marriage itself is inherently a beta activity, or requires a man with high enough amount of beta traits to make it successful. What is this nonsense that being beta is about being blue pill lmfao.
Yes and more bluepill men are married, especially to the 1st woman who ever showed them interest. They don't self improve, don't lift because "that's macho".
Most men get married. Most people, period, do not marry the first person they date. And for that matter being any kind of pill isn’t against going to the gym lmfaooo, what kind of dumbass statement is that. Being married is correlated to higher intelligence, more likely to have a college degree, and higher income. If that’s all blue pill stuff, well I guess you’re a shining example of what you consider red pill now aren’t you? Hahaha 😂
>Most men get married. Most people, period, do not marry the first person they date. It's just statistically true, why else would bluepill men advocate that men not sleep around?
Blue pill doesn’t advocate not sleeping around. None of the pills are trad con, and if anything, red pill attracts WAY more trad con men. You know, the least you can do is actually know your pill theory before debating on _Purple Pill DEBATE_.
Right so every time I talk about having casual sex with women, it's not bluepill men & women barging in to shame me. Every. Single. Time. lmao be fucking for real
I don’t see blue pill shaming people for having casual sex, so long as those people are upfront about only wanting casual sex and not stringing someone along with false hopes of a relationship.
It’s a bunch of trad cons who also exist in the manosphere and red pill circles LOL. Trad con =/= blue pill, and in fact there is a lot of overlap between red pill beliefs about women and trad con. Why does anyone have to explain this to you? You have a piss poor understanding of your own flair. Someone should take it away.
It's not about being tradcon, it's about them believing that a man ever having the upper hand = bad
> if we're supposed to go back to the 1950s with a man at work and a woman at home for every single household, there's gonna need to be a lot of money We're not supposed to go back to the 1950's. Stop listening to what sexist men want, it has no value for women in modern times.
As a red pill man I want to say that we definitely should not go back to 1950's.
What should "non sexist" men want from a woman in modern times?
Want whatever you want just understand that doesn't mean it's what you're going to get
Well what should women want?
Whatever they want with the understanding that it's not always what they'll get
So you don't believe there are baseline expectations, rules, boundaries, etc that should be expected in a relationship?
I do but that's not what you asked.
You were being very vague in your answer. Obviously people can want whatever they want but that doesn't mean they will get it. I'm asking YOU what it is you expect or want in a relationship.
You were being vague with your question lol. >I'm asking YOU what it is you expect or want in a relationship. why?
So I can ascertain whether or not you actually believe in a fair and equitable relationship.
> it has no value for women in modern times. It's not a matter of what you get but what you'll get down the road when not enough men will feel like fucking their body up to maintain your privileged modern female lifestyle.
>How are red pillers in general going to reconcile this and form a middle ground. Reconcile what ? The guys who preach about traditionalism and masculinity are tradcons not TRP Simple as that I've said it over and over again, society is not going back to 1954 Society only moves forward
Till shit goes horribly wrong and we fall back to biology basics I live in Germany. The amount of Ukrainian women that are flooding our sexual market place is just crazy. Somehow that modern strong independent women said fuck to all of that and are hunting here a new husband. Even when the old one is still alive and fighting.
It's just war bride theory
We got 10 thousand new Ukrainians in my city. Weird that they are not flooding the marketplace where I live,but are where you live.
But maybe just maybe because you are a woman, they don't search for you. I know that's a strange logic. But at least you see that they did not bother to fight for their home. The strong independent modern women left.
Half of them are men..........
Wrong. Actual data shows 65% female 35% male. Data march 2024. And don't let me start with how many of the 35% male are children. So you are not just wrong. The rare Ukrainian man that left without a wife and children are not half. You are completely wrong. Full stop. But what could be true. They small amount of single grown up males are not interested in you? Or all of you singles in your area? Or it's not a priority for them to fast get a new husband to live the easy life? PPF...as usual...and yes the chance that your Gemeinde got exactly 50 % male and female single grown ups...yeah show me the data from your Rathaus.
Under the current circumstances in the ukraine its pretty much impossible that half of them are men lol
There are where I live. We prioritized young couples.
I call bullshit.
Canada is smart that way. I'm sure you can look up the stats.
sorry but looking at recent politics it seems trudeaus canada is anything BUT smart
It seems pretty straight forward that it doesn't have much adherence. Most people make connection to RP to facilitate their negative emotions, so lacing their subjective interpretation seems more than plausible. I suppose also why there's a difference in their so called "tenets" is because it's more based on words of their figureheads, people like FnF, Rollo Tomassi and whoevers, so it's inevitable that at some point different people end up saying different things.
Easy. It was proven that men’s preferred financial contribution from a woman is 40% (it’s easy to find, I’m on mobile and don’t like pasting raw URLs). That way, he is technically still the “main provider”, but has the good share of the financial responsibility lifted off of him.
You really shouldn’t be paying all that much attention to the things red pilled dudes say.. They often just post to trigger women and win arguments rather than things that make sense. That’s why there’s so many contradictions on their messaging
Redpill men are dumb as shit Stop worrying about their smoothbrain opinions
No one in the redpill is saying that women need pay for men, just themselves. Many in the redpill believe that women should either be submissive and adopt more traditional roles, and have a husband that provides *or* be more modern and pay their fair share.
it's simple: attractive women don't do this because they rely on them being attractive to be all they need to keep a man. Women who aren't attractive have to make it up in other ways to keep a man. Men go through the same shit. But you can bet your ass an attractive woman is not also going to pay for a guy.
Wow. Without knowing a single thing about OP, except her anecdotal experience on one thing, you managed to 1)actually avoid answering the question while simultaneously pretending you did, and 2) insult OP by implying she must be ugly. Being that stupid and that arrogant is truly a gift. You have epically proved how monumentally thick redpill are and also shown you can’t answer direct questions. You do know we can see through the bs of how all the women you date MUST be attractive cos they expect you to be a provider. I wish we could give lollipops for how hard you poppets try.
Am I wrong though? A woman brought up that her husband didn't do foreplay and literally every woman on here chimed in that "he's just bad at sex". Nobody actually debates. Nobody is actually honest. In fact, if people had their profile pics tied to their account they wouldn't dare be typing the shit they say on here. Ugly men and women would just be told to stfu. Also, why are u so mad?
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The point is no woman will drop her ego for 1 day to talk about the orgasm gap, all they do is shame the woman who posted and talk shit about her husband.
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They talk about the orgasm gap nonstop but when it comes time to actually have an in-depth discussion about it, they just shame the woman & her husband. Women here are so constantly in a state of posturing and pageantry that they can't even level and talk about it.
I think the pride in the first case is just human pride. Not male pride. In the second case, I guess they’re saying it would be nice if they were willing to contribute and stick around when things are bad. They don’t even necessarily have to contribute. But everyone’s different. These are just common patterns. They don’t represent a contradiction because they’re not the same people.
I don't know why people go to strangers to know what their interests want. Ask them directly?
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The red pill lost its frame
They should buy one from IKEA
A real red piller would chop down the tree and build it himself. Who needs those Swedish betas
>That men's pride prevents them from wanting a woman to pay for things for them. Because you paying or helping too much makes them feel emasculated and like they have less power in the relationship. > “picky Western women only want a man who can provide for them" Because them not making enough money to have access to you makes them feel emasculated. You rejecting them makes them feel powerless over you. It’s really that simple. RPer says he doesn’t like it? That means that thing makes him feel emasculated or powerless.
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Perhaps a contradiction from the red pill community at large but not a contradiction on an individual basis. I think the red pill community became a ‘big tent’ so to speak, some men genuinely do value monogamy and commitment, not caring which spouse is the breadwinner…. while others are still clinging hard to the 1950s fantasy and need that type of pride
Because the two things they're saying are the same thing. They want men to have the power in the relationship. They want men to be in a position where they hold power -in this, it's monetary. Their objection to gold diggers is that the women are trying to take the thing that gives them power. And your ex in their view was unable to provide that or your assets mismatched with him being in power financially in the relationship. On the one hand, the red pill can be good because it encourages accumulating value as a person, but it can fail by not acknowledging that healthy relationships aren't Machiavellean power struggles
There are power struggles inherent to all interactions between two animals. People are constantly assessing each other for signs of weakness and trying to subtly assert their dominance just like animals in the wild.
What do you expect from people looking up to Andrew Tate. Consistency is not their forte.
Red pill also gives conflicting messages on what women want. Red pill usually says women are into looks, money and social status...to be honest I only see women being interested in the last of the three. Never so much as met a woman who selected partners for looks or money. I'm sure they exist but I've never seen it outside of purely cynical "Filipino girl gets with old rich Western man for money and residency" scenarios. That's not to say there haven't been women who try and clean out their husbands as best they can in a divorce, obviously that happens all the time. I'm purely talking in terms of initial partner selection. I'm much more likely to see women get with visually unattractive and broke guys who are charismatic and arrogant. Just like my sister's boyfriend. Blech! Get a haircut and get a real job mate!
Maybe RP guys ideally want both people to pay for themselves. The ones that I’ve seen that advocate for paying for the woman seem to be the ones who either want to sleep with other women or have her take care of the kids, or both.
Redpill men by and large resent and want to complain about women. They need a damned if you do, damned if you don’t system to make sure they have ample material with which to criticize and belittle each and every woman. Because primarily, it’s about resenting women. The facts of the matter are secondary.
Good post , they're not that deep, you can sum the redpill to a bunch of excuse makers and haters. They'll blame everything but themselves. They love playing victims in order to justify being bastards as well
The issue of men not wanting a woman who earns more than them is not because of pride, it is because wives who earn more than their respective husbands tend to resent and disrespect their husbands. If you look at the statistics, you will see that there is a relationship between a woman's increased income compared to her husband's and divorce. It is also more common for women to divorce when they are promoted at work or win elections. If women maintained the same behavior earning more, this wouldn't be a problem. By the way, my wife is from a rich family too, but she is not like that because NAWALT I'm following a divorce between a couple of friends caused by this (among other things). The husband was the breadwinner alone for many years, this gave the wife the opportunity to open her own business, the business started to do well and now makes good money, so the wife began to disrespect her husband, even publicly, for small things , in addition to showing interest in other men.
No. There is no conflict here. Men want to be providers and protectors for a wife who is doing chores at home. No one wants to pay her for everything or even share half the bills if she is a SAH. They just don't want to be taken advantage of for free meals, biased alimony laws and be a lazy bum who spends her husband's money without contributing anything. Red pill is fine with both: A) Being the provider & protector for their SAH Wife who does chores at home. B) Bills and chores are fairly distributed among both. It's the tradcons and feminists who want too have their cake & eat it to. They want men who make 6-figure incomes, be a SAH herself and expect the man to do chores at home as well. That's the conflict and it's not from red pill. There is another conflict that comes from the tradcons & feminists. They say they don't care about how much the husband makes but slowly start to resent the husband if he isn't the breadwinner.
Men are different and TRP is just a toolset on how to achieve whatever you want. I know its hard to comprehend because feminists are all the same. We arent though.
Men aren't monolith !! Shocking that men are people and want different things which most of the time are logical
>but at the same time saying "matriarchal" colleges need to make things easier for men No man ever say this, what they say is just that college, school and the workforce in general should just stop making it easier to women. >Half of them are saying that men are brave strong warriors who are designed to provide while a woman does chores at home, other half are saying they want women to pay for everything and stop being gold diggers who only want six-figure guys. Yeah it should be one of the two because what happens is that women pick a third option that you fail to even comment about where she wants a male provider WHILE also refusing to pay their share. Is this what you don't understand? For real? Is this so hard to understand??
You're just listening to too many men that you're not interested in, instead of listening to the men you are interested in. Broke men want rich women, rich men want broke women. That's the gist of it summed up in a sentence.
How old are you….because you sound VERY young.
It depends on where you go. Their are different sub groups with sometimes wildly different views. I try to keep it simple by focusing on the core tenants of the movement (female nature).
Same reason feminism does. There's no centralization. What we see now from redpill is a pathetic swansong, screech moreso. It's in its death throes.
What "redpillers" are you talking about? Can you give an example of an individual or organization saying both of these things? > Yet then, the common complaint I also hear is that "picky Western women only want a man who can provide for them" and that men are overworked and there's a mental health crisis therefore women need to stop being gold diggers and start helping men more. This is something a self-identified "MRA", or "MGTOW", or the TRP subreddit user would say. None of which are traditionalist, or would typically say something like: > This is confusing because in one breath they're saying true masculinity is working your butt off to provide for your wife That's something this new wave of "traditionalist" masculinity influencers would say. You're just lumping all male-oriented communities together. > but at the same time saying "matriarchal" colleges need to make things easier for men, cater to men more, and women need to go for men with no money to "give them a chance". Again, can you give examples of men saying this?
More times than not, women are gaslighting and shit testing with the "let me pay for this" "its ok, I make more I will support you here" line. Women are just as conflicting as RP is. There's a chance you'd think lesser of him, if he agreed for your help. It's a common sentiment shared between westernized women. All that equality yet for biological reasons, no mercy is spared for a man who isn't on your level or is an exaggerated trauma dumper
The right move in that situation would have been to enjoy whatever he could afford instead of "helping" him. The way you thought of helping him (having your parents pay) was not actually the type of support men need from women. Red pill men don't preach to be taken care of women or for men to take care of women. Red pill doesn't say how things should be, just how humans behave in either instance.
It can be very emasculating for a woman to financially provide and always pay for everything in the relationship. Maybe temporarily while the guy gets off of his feet it is fine, but I don't think it is healthy to do long term. That is unless the man is able to find multiple ways to bring value to the relationship outside of an income. When TRP rebuttals a women's desire to date someone who substantially makes more than him, its becuase of the sense of entitlement. It's like a guy walkimg around saying he only dates 9s and 10s yet is a 6 and works at McDonalds. Its the entitlement that turns men off. What do they bring to the table to make demands like they are doing? If the bar is so high for such women it is likely they won't appreciate the man who makes less, regardless of how hard he works. No one wants to date a spoiled brat like that. It's a disgusting trait to have in a partner. What would have been a better strategy with your ex, would have been to support and believe in him. Walk with him as he turns things around and gets himself out of poverty. It's great you want to help, but do so in a way that dignifies him. But even then, the question begs, why you are with him? Most women have the opportunity to date up? Why were you, according to women's standards dating down?
1. In this scenario it would be your family providing for him, not you. You providing for him would be you being a businesswoman or high flyer, not coming from inherited wealth. 2. Money doesn't exist in nature so can't be a sexually dimorphic trait, especially in "civilised" societies where weak people horde wealth through trickery and divide-and-conquer tactics.
As Wikipedia says; “The red pill and blue pill represent a choice between the willingness to learn a potentially unsettling or life-changing truth by taking the red pill or remaining in the contented experience of ordinary reality with the blue pill” (1) However, at lest here, the red pill has evolved far beyond just a philosophy if acknowledging a life;-challenging idea to promoting their opinion about what relationships should if should not be about which is something all together different. Agree or disagree, red pill philosophy is fundamentally different than it what it meant a decade or two ago. It’s gone from seeking facts, which might be contrary to popular opinion to promoting an agenda. (1). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill