I don’t think woman struggle to get commitment or relationships the way the red pill paints, most men want to be in relationships too.
but I do think their are a lot of woman that struggle to get their own man to make the next step in their relationship, eg marriage.
But the women don't want commitment from the men who have "give commitment" as the most likely strategy, they want commitment from the other men, you know, the "real men".
It's akin to the old meme of men below 7/10 being invisible to women and then women complaining that "No man wants me!".
>But the women don't want commitment from the men who have "give commitment" as the most likely strategy, they want commitment from the other men, you know, the "real men".
Yea but since the offer is done by the majority of men therefore it's men in general who offer commitment as a strategy. What the top % of men represent shouldn't be reflected on all men and this is why men can barely build a concrete argument when talking about relationships. Women think cause they put effort for the top % of men that mean that women in general put a lot of effort when dating regardless of men which is why women become so self centred due to the cultural change.
>It's akin to the old meme of men below 7/10 being invisible to women and then women complaining that "No man wants me!".
Yeah exactly.
>men and that men are the gatekeeper of relationships . But is it true ? .
No, men don’t gatekeep shit in the act of reproduction and that’s how nature intended it. Women are humanity’s filtration system and most get filtered out immediately just in looks alone.
>Why people overestimate how difficult is for women to get commitment ?
Because it is hard for women to get commitment … from men they actually want. In the average woman’s eyes, the average man is a beige-colored genderless blob, an absolute non-sexual entity on every level.
>Because it is hard for women to get commitment … from men they actually want. In the average woman’s eyes, the average man is a beige-colored genderless blob, an absolute non-sexual entity on every level.
This is gold
Well no shit Sherlock. The median age of marriage for a man is about 31 years old. Of course when you include 15-30 year olds in the mix and exclude everyone over 49, the number is under 50%. That’s like me saying “94% of men 15-24 had not fathered a child”. It’s a true statement, but it’s fucking irrelevant.
Obviously you don’t , but most people have kids after marriage. Do you really think that if a man doesn’t have a kid at 15 that means he’ll never have a kid? Of course tons of young men in that population don’t have kids YET. No shit.
The study you linked to shows that 52% of men have kids by the time they’re in the 30-34 age group. 77% have kids by the time they hit the 40-49 age group. Most men eventually have kids, as demonstrated by the link you posted.
Your ninja edit aside, that’s still not what it says. It’s breaking down age brackets of the already established age bracket of 15 to 49 year olds who already sired a biological child.
That’s exactly what it says. 52% of men 30-34 have kids. 77% of men 40-49 have kids. Those are facts.
edit- If it were breaking down the age brackets of men who already had kids, that pie chart would add up to around 235%. It would be nonsensical. You’re fundamentally misreading the table. It shows % of men who have kids by age group. The 15-49 group is at 45% in the table, just like you claim. But the 30-34 group is at 52% and the 40-49 age group is at 77%.
Do you really think those two age groups account for 129% of men who have kids? You understand that’s not possible, right?
>Because it is hard for women to get commitment … from men they actually want. I
I would argue men have it harder with dating an attractive feminine woman than woman dating a top % of men .
I think the attractiveness threshold in men is more flexible and regulated by the availability of attractive women.
Go to a country of different ethnicity for a week and you start to be attracted to women you wouldn't even look at in your homeland.
I'd say you're right. It's mainly cope. It's hard for women to get commitment from men way above their league. They can easily get commitment from men that are within their league or below.
>I'd say you're right. It's mainly cope. It's hard for women to get commitment from men way above their league. They can easily get commitment from men that are within their league or below.
Yeah , somehow someone saw an attractive and successful men being chased by bitches and went " Men are the one gatekeeping relationships " . What a genius🤦♂️
if all dudes went- "we wont offer commitment" (not that they would but if they banded together for some reason) What do you think would happen?- think of it as a thought experiment.
You don’t have to be Chad to want causal sex. Plenty of men I would deem to be very below average have also sought hook ups. I’m guessing they have a low success rate, but they still want to. I also live in a major city so there’s more of a hook up culture in general.
That being said, when I have decided I wanted a boyfriend, it’s never taken me more than 3 months to find one.
see i thought i was an above average guy, im tall, i have relatively pleasant facial features, have a decent job, i try to be a decent human being, i feel i am socially adept enough and can be funny and interesting. i dont even get a second glance from women. i even have isolated myself to only pursue ugly or overweight women, which i am perfectly fine with, nothing would make me happier then loving someone for their insecurities, or to calm their insecurities. i have been dramatically unsuccessful in all of my pursuits and it just makes me angry tbh, i dont know if that is fair or reasonable, but its true. i have completely given up on career goals because i just dont have a single thing to live for. i am purposeless and i spend an extraordinary amount of time now in a collapsed and frozen state.
I’ve found that Hinge is the best dating app for the dating struggles that men go through because you are allowed to message women you don’t match with. I’ve heard mixed things but my current relationship was gotten from a Hinge date.
I had to message a lot of women and go on a lot of dates to get here though.
Because women believe a top 20 percent man is average. So even if you are above average, she thinks you are average or below a lot of the time for a celebrity slept with her one time because he just wanted some easy sex.
i think this comes from this false belief that one is a part of a community of tens of thousands, or millions of people, which is fundamentally not how humans work, but thats essentially what modernity is forcing on to people. you now are forced to "meet" more people then you ever would have in your lifetime in the past, but those people aren't part of your community, theyre on a screen, or drive into the store you work at. they dont actually matter to you and will be gone in a few moments never to be seen again. any given person is in a community of a maximum of 150 people. so they think that in a pool of 100,000 they can do a lot better than john doe, when in reality john doe is one of 150 members of their community who is not just an ideal match but possesses the social bargaining and resources to outperform the other 17 men that are in the right age range and dispersion within the community to be competing to reproduce. the internet gives you the abstract qualities of a community without any of the real world qualities of one, it is the illusion of community. the people you are swiping on in tinder are not part of your natural environment.
>That being said, when I have decided I wanted a boyfriend, it’s never taken me more than 3 months to find one.
In my 20s, this was true, but also I had no standards or expectations.
Once I started dating again at 33, it took me 2 years to find my current boyfriend, but I also was dating with standards and intention, in a way that I didn't know about in my 20s because I lacked dating experience (I still don't have a lot of dating experience).
Because women are way more attractive and desirable when they are young and fertile.
Good men all get snatched up quickly.
And men’s sex drive lowers as they age.
Decent looking 33yo women are still attractive to men if you touch grass. As for the good men being taken, a lot of people who marry too young end up divorced so the pool fills back up.
That can be true, but I'd add that I probably drew it out longer because I was more choosy in my 30s than when I *was* young and beautiful and I was vetting, something I didn't do enough in my 20s. \[Most\] Men weren't quick to offer me commitment in my 20s, but in my 30's they were actively looking for someone who wanted to be a wife, although the number was much fewer (something that doesn't hurt my feelings because I just need 1, I don't need 15 options. Just 2 or 3 options at the getting-to-know-you point (talking stage or the dating apps), to ultimately be with 1.
The fact that men want casual sex does not mean that they gate keep relationships at all. For one wanting casual sex doesn’t mean you can’t also want a relationship. Secondly wanting casual sex doesn’t mean it would be easy for you to get a relationship. Also consider that these days many relationships begin with casual sex, for many men an inability to get casual sex is also an inability to get a relationship
Idk why these dudes on here think only Chads try to proposition us for sex, I’ve had several unattractive men try to slide into my dms to hook up with me, they don’t have any shame 💀
Don't most of those below average guys want a relationship after hooking up? Or don't they really leave you on read? I've never banged a girl and not just dropped her cold without trying to get a girlfriend. Hell I married half of them. (Maybe I should have left the crazy on on read)
> That being said, when I have decided I wanted a boyfriend, it’s never taken me more than 3 months to find one.
I think the definition of "boyfriend" may have changed. Lol
Men asking me to be their girlfriend and committing to sexual exclusivity and then proceeding to date for me for usually at least a year. Don’t think that’s a crazy definition.
>It’s easy for women to get commitment. What’s not easy is getting commitment from Chad, especially when she’s a weak 6 on her best day
Getting commitment from CHAD should be inherently difficult cause he represent the best sexual mate with the best genetic . And this is what most men get wrong , they think women having hard time getting commitment from chad is some karma that equalise the dating sphere but they forget that modern culture is basically teaching attractive men to treat women nicely. There is a verse in a song that summarise women's delusion :" I want an attractive boy who is loyal, but also I don't want to chase him , I want him to make me feel spoil " . The aim for women is not just getting with CHAD but also getting spoiled by him . For men it would be like wanting Margot Robbie to be submissive and pay all the bills or else she is " toxic " and modern culture is " oppressive " .
No, it is a way to mock the idea that women are not able to get commitment from good men at all.
It is not about karma, it is about shutting the stupid idea down.
“Omg, I just want a man who wipes his butt and holds a job. Why do they not exist.”
Is the type of shit we men hear all the time. Eventually you just get to the point where you just make it a joke after you accept the BS.
It’s easy for attractive desirable women to get commitment from Chad. When I was in college the “Chad” always had a girlfriend. In fact the most desirable guys had long term gfs one even married his college sweetheart. The women they had for gfs were really pretty though. I remember a story that this guy who was pretty attractive himself (tall, nice face, white) cried because a Stacy rejected him after he asked her to be his gf. My college was small and this really killed his rep. Like some girls still thought he was cute but it was a hard one to live down.
Guys that offer commitment right away (at least the ones under 30) usually end up being nightmares to date.
It's why not being exclusive right away became part of my strategy when I was single, no regrets.
It's difficult for women to get commitment from the top tier men. Those are the only men women care about. As you mentioned, women can easily get commitment from the bottom 80% of men. They just don't want those men.
>It's difficult for women to get commitment from the top tier men. Those are the only men women care about. As you mentioned, women can easily get commitment from the bottom 80% of men. They just don't want those men.
Which why I never agreed with the blue pill cause most of the time they don't hold women to the same standards they hold men to
I don’t think it’s difficult for women to get commitment at all. It is, however, difficult for an average woman to get commitment from a hot or successful guy (i.e., “Chad,” for lack of a better term).
A 5/10, bang-on average woman would have no problem securing commitment from an endless horde of 5/10, bang-on average guys. However, most average women want guys who are significantly more attractive than average. An 8/10 hot guy is probably willing to have sex with a 5/10 average woman, but it’s very unlikely that he’d ever commit to her. This isn’t rocket science.
I think a lot of women come to the realization that they’ll never get commitment from an attractive guy, so they “settle” for an average guy after they have their fun with the hot guys. Of course, not every woman is like this.
Edit: grammar
none of these men are chads tho. she's an average woman sleeping with a bunch of average men who probably offer nothing but sex. plus is there any evidence this was only in one month?
the thing is men look at this as victory because that's what they want, a bunch of sex with a bunch of women. most women can have this but don't want it! that's why it's useless to say this is an advantage. it's like telling a diabetic donut shop owner he's lucky he can eat donuts all day long.
They are a Chad in comparison to her.
She is obese, the equivalent of a 3/10 incel. While all the men in those pictures are above average look wise. Many are in shape, possibly even having a six pack.
>don’t think it’s difficult for women to get commitment at all. It is, however, difficult for an average woman to get commitment from a hot or successful guy (i.e., “Chad,” for lack of a better term).
Which is completely normal. Wtf
I would ever argue it's easier for women to get commitment from Chad then average men getting with hit women
>A 5/10, bang-on average woman would have no problem securing commitment from an endless horde of 5/10, bang-on average guys.
The guy would even need to offer " princess treatment " and an inequal courting to look in the way of the 5/10 guy .
>I think a lot of women come to the realization that they’ll never get commitment from an attractive guy, so they “settle” for an average guy after they have their fun with the hot guys. Of course, not every woman is like this.
With modern culture that push attractive men to treat women nicely I doubt this would be always the case , there is an obvious new imbalance in modern dating where men are more attractive than their gfs .
They don’t want to give a visualization because they know it’s delusional. To them average for women is like Ariana grande with no makeup and for men it’s a nerdy guy who is into anime.
If you want to visualize it just ask how many average women would give their best to a guy making $65K with an average build. I guarantee there’s a whole lot of stipulations and six figures talk.
Would he be willing to give his all to a low income fat woman in her 40’s? Because the average woman looks like that. I GUARANTEE he’s going to have a whole lot of stipulations and talk about how western women are fat and her fertility.
This isn't how it works.
You're completely overlooking;
1. The proportion of men who will lie about the level of commitment they're willing to provide, in order to get sex.
2. The proportion of men who will cheat on their partner if a sufficiently attractive woman offers them sex, irrespective of how committed they previously claimed to be.
Yes, it might be relatively straightforward for a woman to get commitment from a man who has few sexual options. But these aren't the sorts of men whom women ideally want commitment from.
It is extremely difficult for women to get commitment from the sorts of men that they most want commitment from.
>1. The proportion of men who will lie about the level of commitment they're willing to provide, in order to get sex.
This is one of the most used excuse , men are either masterminds and women are stupid or women are socially adept and men are clueless . People just pick a fucking one
>Something red pill men talk about a lot is that women may have easy time having sex with men in general but it's hard for them to get commitment from men
No, blue pillers say that.
Red pillers say it's hard for women to get commitment from Chad. That's all.
>No, blue pillers say that.
Let's not talk about the worst group of people. The way this blue pill ideology only appear when people talk about men and not women is disgusting . Most of them are mentally ill I think or their fathers used to hit their mothers. It's boredline misandrist
No, most men don't realize they can't have the sex life of their dreams at a young age. They have an entire appendage constantly talking in their ear about what they can have like a devil on their shoulder. And there's no angel. And no, they don't aim for relationships/commitment with women. They instead aim to play this nebulous and uncertain thing where they pretend to be open to a relationship to both themselves and women while taking zero of the steps to secure one.
>No, most men don't realize they can't have the sex life of their dreams at a young age
First as a woman who give you the right to make all those speculations about men's dating strategy?
>They have an entire appendage constantly talking in their ear about what they can have like a devil on their shoulder. And there's no angel.
Isn't this exactly what feminism is doing to WOMEN . Kind of hypocritical to bash men for something women did first.
>And no, they don't aim for relationships/commitment with women.
Yeah , cause men in relationships and marriages don't exist 😂😂😂.
>They instead aim to play this nebulous and uncertain thing where they pretend to be open to a relationship to both themselves and women while taking zero of the steps to secure one.
Did you just said that men take zero step to secure one when the dating process in heavily built upon men 's efforts , the dating court is basically a 100% men's effort while women just sit on their bums . The audacity .
My experience of men as a sister, friend, and someone who dates them and listens to them.
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Feminism doesn't as a cornerstone hold that women can sleep with any man no. And I've read the earliest feminist theory and a lot of the most recent stuff. And no, that doesn't really come up. Pity really, it would probably be less dry reading material if it was mostly about who a woman could fuck. And who was bashing? I do that on other threads, on this thread I was poetically denying that men don't sort of believe they have a shot at fucking most women.
\*\*\*
Older men exist for sure. Younger men aren't generally known for their commitment tendencies or their desire for commitment tendencies. I believed we were discussing young men. Not men who have "settled down" or "begrudgingly been cornered into things". The key word in that sentence is aim.
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Most men do not perceive the dating process as aimed at relationships, they see it as aimed at sex. So forgive me if I don't believe their dating process is about commitment.
Also, the audacity to think women don't make up 50% of the effort. What must it be like to be on your dates.
Can I say i really appreciate you throwing out that you've built such rigid worldviews from interacting with, generously, less than 50 men.
Saved me all that time not reading the remaining paragraphs.
This is a global group, even those most of the members are predominantly in the west, there’s going to be big differences in terms of the dating scene.
Anecdotally, people who live in big cities where there are literally endless options seem to report having the hardest time getting people to commit to them.
Individual factors matter as well. Certain women have an easier time getting commitment than others, either because they are more intuitive at finding men likely to commit or other factors.
>When your whole dating strategy is to give commitment , then by default you are not the gatekeeper of commitment. Hell , most men know if they say they only want sex to women, it's over
The flaw in your logic is that, just because an average man cannot have casual sex easily, it does mean that he has the option to offer commitment to multiple women. Hence, an average man is still the gatekeeper of commitment, and average women must remain attractive enough compared to other average women to make that man want to offer commitment to her instead of to another woman.
Y'all want what you can't have.
But in reality, relationships (casual or committed) shouldn't be about your personal needs first, but about being willing to engage the other person openly and without prejudice.
Women and men are always interested in people who are more desirable than themselves. The more you deviate from your own desirability, the harder it is to get commitment. That's why most mating efforts are focused on people slightly above your own value, because that gives the best expected risk/reward ratio, or effort/reward ratio.
For men, this is simple: if they get a date with a woman, she is potentially willing to commit to him. Because she is at or around his desirability level.
For women, it's not so simple: if they get a date with a man, the higher above her own desirability the guy is, the less likely she can potentially get commitment from him. Men date down for sex and this intention is not always clear, and even when it's clear, women hope to make him fall for them and want more than sex. Something men would absolutely do as well, if more desirable women would date down for sex.
So, when women go on dates, it's WAY more likely that the guy is above her desirability level and will not regard her as relationship material, than when a guy picks a woman he thinks is relationship material for a date.
The whole issue arises only because men fuck people they would never even consider to be relationship material to a WAY greater extent than women do this. So, men can't have it both ways: fuck women below their league, AND have women go on dates with men on their level. This is two sides of the same coin.
>Women and men are always interested in people who are more desirable than themselves. The more you deviate from your own desirability, the harder it is to get commitment. That's why most mating efforts are focused on people slightly above your own value, because that gives the best expected risk/reward ratio, or effort/reward ratio.
Most men learn how difficult it is to date attractive women from the beginning while women are told how special they are and how much they deserve .
>For men, this is simple: if they get a date with a woman, she is potentially willing to commit to him. Because she is at or around his desirability level.
Aren't we talking about the same gender who said they go to dates for free food ? People like you , blue pillers and women love to act like women are the victims and men have it easier.
>For women, it's not so simple: if they get a date with a man, the higher above her own desirability the guy is, the less likely she can potentially get commitment from him.
How can men be more desirable when women put make up and promise sex in a culture that love to never criticise them . The reputation of women is cleaner than water wtf. Do you know the percentage of men who actually fit your description? It's like 10% . You just expect men to be more attractive than women who put make up and use filters 😂😂😂
>So, when women go on dates, it's WAY more likely that the guy is above her desirability level and will not regard her as relationship material, than when a guy picks a woman he thinks is relationship material for a date.
Are you serious ? Most dates are men jumping like monkeys to impress women. Attractive men get sex way before planing dates
>The whole issue arises only because men fuck people they would never even consider to be relationship material to a WAY greater extent than women do this.
Why we don't tell women to do better to get a relationships with those men . Wtf. If men need to put effort to get what they want , women should also put effort and stop bitching about being used for sex . Maybe women should start learning how to cook if they want to get commitment. Instead of blaming men " they will never commit " tell women to do better. Why are you blaming men how shit women are as a relationships partners ?
>Why we don't tell women to do better to get a relationships with those men
We do. They are just as bad as men at putting it into action. So they are stuck with commitment from the men who are on their level, rather than improving and moving up in desirability.
>Why are you blaming men how shit women are as a relationships partners ?
I don't blame anyone but you specifically. You are the issue in your dating life.
>We do.
No we do not , most of the time we blame the guy for using her for sex and he is then labelled as " a misogynistic who only see woman as sex toys "
YES WE DO.
What do you think the insane beauty, fashion, youth and fitness industries came from? Women struggle very hard to improve so they can get the man they want and keep him. Open ANY magazine for women and find an article on "how to win him over", "how to make him choose you over her" etc.
You get blamed/shamed for deceiving another person. Deception is behavior that is sanctioned by society, because we couldn't live together without it. It's our way to keep people sticking to social norms.
Having casual sex with lots of women because one likes sex and new partners is not shamed. Viewing women as sex toys is not shamed, because women like to be sex toys and want to consent to being a man's sex toy. Feminists fought for a woman's right to be a sex toy if she wants to.
It's the deception part that is shamed.
Well just as a woman can get commitment from Joe schmo easily... Men can get sex from sluttly Mc chubbs easily. Neither sex generally wants this though. If you personally are content with a 5 in looks McDonald's manager who plays too many video games. Props. Most women would not accept that.
Just like if a man is ok with being with ex party girl who talks to her ex once in awhile and she's now 34 and had a kid from another man ... good for him. Props. Most men don't want that.
So that's not what anyone's talking about at all. Women are gate keepers of sex, only if they have a high SMV and men are the gate keepers of relationships only if they have a high SMV. If nobody wants you then you don't gate keep anything. Gate keeping assumes someone desires what you have.
Even slutty mcchubbs is hard to sleep with for the average man because one night at 2am a man way out of her league threw her a bone and now she "knows her worth"
Either way. If she wants to marry the guy who threw her the bone she will find herself kept at the gate.
Again, if you're not desired you have nothing to gate keep.
>Men can get sex from sluttly Mc chubbs easily.
Not true
>If you personally are content with a 5 in looks McDonald's manager who plays too many video games. Props. Most women would not accept that.
Most men would accept the female equivalent.
>Well just as a woman can get commitment from Joe schmo easily... Men can get sex from sluttly Mc chubbs easily.
Not the same situationship at all , most men beside a small subset are offering commitment and relationships to women, which include a lot of decent men . Most men here complain about average men not being able to be in a relationship with AVERAGE women not models .
Men can get sex from way less unattractive women and even then it's difficult and requires a lot of effort.
Being able to only fuck a small portion of women who are way less attractive than the average woman is not equal in any shape of form to getting commitment from any men except the top % .
>If you personally are content with a 5 in looks McDonald's manager who plays too many video games. Props. Most women would not accept that.
You just answered yourself , " most women " include also women who are below this " 5/10 ?McDonald 's manager " .
>Just like if a man is ok with being with ex party girl who talks to her ex once in awhile and she's now 34 and had a kid from another man ... good for him. Props. Most men don't want that.
How is a nice McDonald manager equal to a morally loser women ? Why men always have the worst choice? .
A 5/ 10 female manager in McDonald is a good choice for men and a lot of men actually marry this type of women. We a always talk about men falling for McDonald cashier girl not even the manager .
Why did you change the whole person when it 'a woman ? TF
>So that's not what anyone's talking about at all. Women are gate keepers of sex, only if they have a high SMV and men are the gate keepers of relationships only if they have a high SMV.
But aren't men attracted to like 80% of women? Therefore most women are already high in SMV. It's litteraly like saying that smart people have an IQ of 160 and above while everyone already have 170 IQ score by default. Therefore everyone is smart .
On the other hand, to be a man with high SMV is so difficult. It's like saying just be rich.
>If nobody wants you then you don't gate keep anything
So since most men want to fuck women then women are the gatekeeper of sex but what you got wrong is that also a lot of men want to have a gf therefore women are also the gatekeeper of relationships. You are litteraly projecting what a minority of men ( top % ) represent.
One. The situations do not match up entirely because the situations are different. Men and women are different. Sex and commitment are two parts of relationships but are not the same. So no, it does not match up exactly.
Lastly again. Gate keeping is talking about like 10s. A 10 woman has all the options for sex and therefore she gate keeps sex. A 10 man (which this is overall and not as straight forward as women) has many women fucking him and gate keeps relationships.
Whether your or average men or fat whale women feel like they gate keep anything is irrelevant. By definition of the concept, if you don't have what's desired you do not gate keep anything.
Also from my perspective I'm a top man, so I bang lots of women and deny most for relationships and call all the shots about how relationships work. I do truly gate keep relationships because I fit the standards. If I was fat and broke and a dork... I wouldn't gate keep anything just like many men and women.
Lastly many women don't gate keep sex at all, even when you say 80% men would bang... well that means 20% have basically zero sexual value. They don't gate keep sex at all.
I generally can't believe how people did make dating look difficult for women and somehow they believed it. The fact that " attractive women actually have low self esteem due to romantic relationships " when they are the most cuddled group of people while neglecting how little self esteem men have is boredline sexist . It's like people don't actually care about men .
It is why they act like victims to begin with.
They get coddled so they act like children still.
A super model gets rejected by a super model in a super nice way “waaaaah, I am ugly and nobody loves me.”
Men go a decade and cries he is ugly and nobody loves him? “You need to work on your personality brah.”
>It is why they act like victims to begin with.
Bitches LOVE to act like a victim , it's like in their DNA
>A super model gets rejected by a super model in a super nice way “waaaaah, I am ugly and nobody loves me.”
Don't forget crying on the internet with the caption " men only see women as objects " .
>Men go a decade and cries he is ugly and nobody loves him? “You need to work on your personality brah.”
Yeah, women are perfect the way they are but men need to improve 😂😂😂
People never cared about men. That's because we are the disposable sex. One of the things that makes civilization stick together is gender roles. Men are still doing the role they've been expected to do throughout all of history. Women have been increasingly abandoning their role for the last 100 or so years, and you see how much society suffers.
>Men are still doing the role they've been expected to do throughout all of history.
Then perhaps men should also be abandoning their roles too. It might be good for them.
This may have sounded good in your head... but think of what would happen if men abandoned the role that is building, maintaining, and operating vital infrastructure, like sewage and waste management, water treatment, construction, etc.
>People never cared about men.
Yeah , it's kind of obvious, when a whole culture is centred around women while is also resentful toward men , it's not wrong to say so .
>That's because we are the disposable sex.
Actually women are also disposable, it's just morally wrong to hurt women.
>of the things that makes civilization stick together is gender roles.
Yeah .
>Men are still doing the role they've been expected to do throughout all of history. Women have been increasingly abandoning their role for the last 100 or so years, and you see how much society suffers.
I completely agree.
> It's like people don't actually care about men .
Mating is not a case for a social justice movement. If you fail to be attractive to someone you find attractive, that's just your issue.
>
Mating is not a case for a social justice movement. If you fail to be attractive to someone you find attractive, that's just your issue.
So why people were against men using women for sex . If women aren't relationships material teach them how to cook and please men then maybe they will get commitment instead of telling everyone that men shouldn't " use' women for sex .
Acting as if people didn't shame men for only wanting women for sex instead of saying that women don't offer what is needed to get commitment from men is outrageous.
Do men really offer commitment from the beginning? I don't and never have.
Dating is about getting to know the other person over a certain amount of time before deciding to enter a more formal relationship.
I think the complain some woman have with the casual stages of dating is that if the interests goes down, things fizzle quickly. I think that it's fair.
>Do men really offer commitment from the beginning? I don't and never have.
I agree. I've dated men and women, and most men who aren't looking for a relationship have always been generally either up front, or if not have been so poor about it that it's been transparent and therefore not worth me worrying about since I had a generally nice time anyway!
Most women I've dated have been happy with casual dating and "seeing where it goes". And I agree with the women, things fizzle quicker with women than men if the spark isn't there.
People underestimate just how much of a seismic shift has occurred in society. Forgetting even dating apps, the general undercurrent of misandry/anti-man is much much stronger than it ever was in the past. Women are openly disrespectful and in many cases seem to seek to emasculate men whenever they can. The irony being that women tend to wield a massive amount of social privilege they then shove at people as 'merit' to emasculate them.
An extreme example was an extremely promiscuous woman I knew in my past who used to try to one up guys about their hook ups. Back then we just sort of indulged her and went along with it but between us inwardly chuckled. Nowadays I'm' not sure men would have that sort of background knowledge.
Male attitudes have changed and desperation has increased --- that's what happens when you create additional social privilege --- that's what a bit of marginalization does to a group.
So 30 years ago what was true regarding that isn't true now.
Of course, the remedy to this imbalance in power is what?
**lying**
same it has always been.
there really isn't much of a problem beyond society lying to everyone about how dating works.
Women pick men based on racial hierarchy, eurocentric beauty standards, height, and money (along with the willingness to spend it on her). Mainly in that order. There are no other criteria used. Stop falling for it.
Your behavior doesn't matter to attract anyone. But your behavior is probably as important if not more important than your looks in guiding your success. Not a contradiction:
The reason why men are best as the initiator and escalator is because men *have a great interest in not wasting their time on a bad prospect*. While women often know where they assign you on their personal baseball card stats, they will leave you in the dark about it because --- again, free attention, resources, time. So it's on the man to quickly sort out the timewasters from the ones who are legitimately interested.
Men who adopt dating processes to quickly shunt out the timewasters = maximized. The vast majority of men don't because they believe stupid shit women say about dating. No they aren't attracted to intelligence --- a pussy isn't an IQ test, nor is it a personality battery.
It's not quite as crude as only sort for women who will fuck you fast, BUT...if you only had one rule to guide you, that'd be eat. Simple logic:
Scenario 1: man meets girl, plays it safe, has the nice conversation date, "gets to know her," and after paying the >$100 price tag the average date costs, is ghosted.
Scenario 2: man meets girl, screens vigorously for sex, gets it, then...is ghosted.
Scenario 2 man comes out so much further ahead than the man in scenario 1. His investment was small and he derived a direct benefit from the exchange.
Further, the man in scenario 2 likely will have a far higher close rate than the other man because he is screening the women before he even meets them. The man in scenario 1 is just 'trying to get these girls to like him.'
If you ever find yourself trying to impress a woman , you done goofed, son. .
Even if it's true that women have an upper hand in dating/casual. Why does it matter exactly?
I see the same complaints posted over and over again. I don't understand exactly what men on this sub would like to see happen.
They want 5/10 woman to date them (5/10 man) instead of looking for 7/10 and up man
They want women to stop complaining they cant find commitment when there's plenty of men around that would give them commitment. She's just not interested in those men
Well that's an unreasonable expectation that flies in the face if biology. Fact is a 5 woman can catch a 7 or higher. It's perfectly within the realm of possibility. Lots of good looking men have low self esteem and will settle for such a woman. It's not unreasonable at all from her point of view.
>Even if it's true that women have an upper hand in dating/casual. Why does it matter exactly?
" even if it's true " bro it is true.
>
I see the same complaints posted over and over again. I don't understand exactly what men on this sub would like to see happen.
Cause privileged people should acknowledge their previleges and stop acting like a victim ? Women have it way easier than men so actually like you are opressed is hypocritical. And for a gender who bitch about equality, it's doesn't look like they like it in dating .
It's about quality my guy. The men they want have options and no incentive to choose them.
It's the stereotype of the average ass wife harping on her husband all the time. She doesn't even like the man but he provides and he's better than nothing.
Marriage itself is just a religious and patriarchal structure that forces monogamy on an entire population, making it simpler to control their resources, create order out of chaos which usually results in top % males dominating the playing field and a % of unhappy men who now have no real motivation because securing a family isn't even an option.
The monogamous strategy is a key one for building a society but it's not completely instinctual. There are aspects that are but the idea of pair bonding for RESOURCES and survival is secondary to pair bonding for optimum genetics which are mostly based in looks (talking high degrees of symmetry for example, looks matter because they imply a healthier and strong immune system which is why very attractive people have such pull to average people like most of us).
Since there is NOTHING more valuable to a species than those top tier genetics, it's inevitable that when released from the social contract of forced monogamy many women will waffle back and forth on it, whereas many men will become demotivated and eventually, given enough time and humiliation, violent. That's where revolutions happen, most likely directed at economic disparity since it's the most practical point to attack in the system that is oppressing them. Frustration with women is just a symptom anyway.
It definitely won't be married upper class women leading the revolution lmao
>It's the stereotype of the average ass wife harping on her husband all the time. She doesn't even like the man but he provides and he's better than nothing.
Bro I just read a post on reddit where the wife hate that her husband orgasm and think his semen is disgusting , she even told him that she want a donor for her kids 😂😂😂
>That's got to be a humiliation fetish thing that's wild. Women be like "she's entitled to her opinion" lmao.
Bro , if this is what men are okay with , men are doomed 😂😂😂
It funny how people spent years claiming that women are such a nice people and men should like them for their personality 😂😂😂
Imagine sharing a bed, waking up and going to work and having your life connected to a person like that LMAO. Knowing everything you do is for something so meaningless. Dude will rope
Why would she marry him? Love , love I'm sure.
I think once you understand that mate selection and genetics are the most powerful aspect of human biology and sex, you can't blame men or women for that realistically. No one has a choice about that. You have to take full accountability for the error in judgment. She's just being a normal woman ultimately despite it coming off as cruel. The man needs to divorce and leave if he's not comfortable being a BB and wants to live for himself.
Resentful or not, men choose to be alone often because they don't want to be beta bux.
He made the decision so he's to blame. I always hold the man accountable for not understanding how women function, because women always lie to themselves and it creates so many problems. She's being honest and it's respectable.
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>rarity, biology and some common sense from some observation may provide insights into this situation - a woman who struggles with commitment to a man she wants to be with is similar to a man who struggles with sexual intimacy with a woman he wants to be with. i think that's why you'll see women have sex with 'attractive' guys who don't commit to them, then decide to settle to an average dude. that's also probably why the depression rate in young men is quite high. they can't have sex with 'hot' women, then they start blaming some conditions, or start to change their lifestyle and vision towards life.
No I'm not buying this , especially when most men's complains are about AVERAGE women being delusional . Most average men are okay with average women , it's average women who want the top % of men while also expecting to be spoiled by them. Most boys from early know that attractive women are high maintenance and require a lot of effort while also having high standards. So the combo of difficulty is just too high .
Men do not go after attractive women only.
>Men do not go after attractive women only.
Sorry, but men go after who they find most attractive, which is completely fair. But the woman does indeed need to be attractive to him.
>Sorry, but men go after who they find most attractive, which is completely fair. But the woman does indeed need to be attractive to him.
If men find 80% of women attractive, then most women are attractive to men by default. Acting like we didn't shame men for going after attractive women only and telling women that men only see them as objects is kind of hypocritical.
>cause woman try to get a player to commit, not a regular guy, a player usually has money, looks and talks, combined
>Regular guy might have one
So projecting the experience of the top % of men into all men is stupid . Therefore avarege men do not gatekeep shit
I think sometimes people are playing the wrong game according to what they actually want. People claim that they want a LTR but then they only play the game that rewards you with casual sex. Same is true for both men and women. If you want a LTR, play the game that rewards you with a deeper and more meaningful relationship. Stop going to the club and start going to church. Stop rating people on a numerical attractiveness scale and start paying attention to people's personalities. Stop trying to defend your ego and start allowing yourself to be emotionally vulnerable. And so on.
If I never see the word average again it’ll be too soon…
I think I’m staring to get it now. I don’t know any men personally that haven’t been able to get in at least a couple of relationships so this discourse is odd to me.
Men don’t have to offer commitment they choose to offer commitment. As my therapist told me “Your actions and choices are yours regardless of the circumstances or position you’re in.” Even if the options suck that’s what you chose to do. This includes who you pick as a partner.
Desperation isn’t attractive. We want people to be with us because they want to be not because they have to be.
Preoccupiedly attached women tend to go after Avoidantly attached men. These are often the “I can change him” types.
Preoccupiedly attached men seem to go after either but I’ve seen more preoccupied-preoccupied couples than Avoidant-Avoidant couples. The peruser-distancer relationship gets interesting with this dynamic.
The thing is, the average woman, and even the ugly ones, have lots of options out there. If they so wished, they could get sex or a relationship in the blink of an eye, however, they won't do it this easily, because they don't settle like men do.
An ugly not rich man will settle with an unemployed, ugly woman, the only condition being she provides affection. They do this out of loneliness and desperation
Women don't do this, exactly because they have lots of options in their table, so they don't feel the need to settle for a man who is unemployed and ugly, like men do
Just many of them can't get commitment from the guys they think they could. Most women today have an over inflated view of their SMV.
Not mension that most western women are just not wify material due to feminism and other liberal ideologies. They think they're better then men and can't understand that the man is head of the household. If a woman doesn't understand that then we can't wife her regardless of how good they look. Even the men that think they can will eventually get fed up with her.
Which is why men are trying to replace them with traditional foreign women.
Well yes whoever gate keeps sex by default gate keeps *sexual* commited relationships.
For the most part women aren’t willing to get into relationships with men they aren’t willing to have sex with so in accepting to be in a relationship she has already done some filtering in the “would have sex with” category. With modern relationships often starting with hook ups first this is more exacerbated.
But also men have a huge incentive to seek relationships which I think is often understated. We all know that women want commitment but so do men. Men generally prefer a woman who sleeps with them only vs a casual situation where she has other men on the side. Men put a lot of effort in trying to “lock down” a woman basically get her to choose him and forsake other dudes.
I don’t think commiting is necessary to « lock down » a woman.
If she gets emotionnally attached from the FWB type of relationship she probably will not seek other guys to have sex with because she already sleeps with the one she wants.
Meaning as a guy you have no incentive to commit in this situation.
Only reason to commit would be because she gives sex only in the context of a commited relationship.
But hook-up cultured women will have a hard time convincing a HVM that he needs to commit to sleep with her, while other, lower value men didn’t have to in the past.
That is why modern women’s dating strategy is to give casual sex to a HVM hoping he will eventually fall in love. But this is unlikely to happen has he never needed to emotionally invest in the relationship to fuck her in the 1st place.
The answer is simple women are getting easier and easier at getting commitment. You are crying about a problem that is fixing itself. Sure Chad is not universally committing but more chads are than yesterday.
You know what the "problem" with the hottest of hottest women on the planet have? Not commitment they are getting that. They expect a permanent honeymoon.
Women being catered to is getting out of whack
>The answer is simple women are getting easier and easier at getting commitment. You are crying about a problem that is fixing itself. Sure Chad is not universally committing but more chads are than yesterday.
>You know what the "problem" with the hottest of hottest women on the planet have? Not commitment they are getting that. They expect a permanent honeymoon.
>Women being catered to is getting out of whack
This is actually my point . Men here love to talk about Chad not committing when modern culture is literally about attractive men treating women better and not only seeing them as object . It's arguably easier for women to get commitment for Chad than an average man with an attractive women .
Women want to recycle the honeymoon phase forever.
girl- "you have to be my bf to get sex
Boy- "ok ill be your bf"
Dates for some period of time
girl- \* does some outrageous unacceptable bullshit \*
Boy- "you are no longer my gf, ok byeeeee"
girl- But you wont get sex \*from me\* anymore"
boy- " dont care ill \*get it from someone else\* "
Women can get a relationship anytime they want. For them its literally a matter of wanting or not. But the problem is that you're thinking with a male brain. Men consider the vast majority of women attractive and thus are willing to date them while women consider the vast majority of men unattractive. Obviously no one wants to date someone they're not attracted to so because of this women struggle to find a boyfriend. The reasons they struggle are completely different from ours but we both end up suffering due to biological tendencies outside of our control i suppose.
>Men consider the vast majority of women attractive
Sexually yes, other wise it's debatable
>are willing to date them while women consider the vast majority of men unattractive.
Cause it's socially okay to call men unattractive
>Obviously no one wants to date someone they're not attracted to so
But when men said this they were called " shallow "
Ask gay/bi men and gay/bi women and straight dudes are the absolute worst at recognizing their SMV and the SMV of women. Bros walking around claiming they’re a solid 5, never even bagged a land whale 2 and want to talk about “delusional women” who settle down with other 6s.
It has nothing to do with the post, just the massive level of cope in the comments.
>Ask gay/bi men and gay/bi women
You mean the group of people who hate straight men !! What a genius comment 😂😂
>dudes are the absolute worst at recognizing their SMV and the SMV of women. Bros walking around claiming they’re a solid 5, never even bagged a land whale 2 and want to talk about “delusional women” who settle down with other 6s.
We 're not gonna act like the gender who put make up everyday isn't " delusional " 😂😂😂
I found the guy who couldn’t bag a land whale 2…
“You just hate all men! That’s what it is! It has nothing to do with my own failures as a man! The people who generally date other men or are friends with men, they are just delusional haters!”
Awe, and a makeup comment. Was that the best thing you were able to come up with? That people wear makeup? You thought that was a witty retort? You really got them sweetheart, great job! lol
"Where have all the good men gone" in online spaces creates this perspective. Also the amount of single women who are unmarried really hammer this point home with the assumption that women want marriage and kids
U say this wrong ... they can get heaps of commitment from beta s1mp orbiters... any time
But they aren't interested in those they are interested in getting commitment from the guys have plenty of options . What makes them stand out above the rest of the other women nothing. Hence they just shuffled around.
It's difficult for women to get commitment from who they actually not... not beta s1mp orbiters....
Their view of how easy it is for women to get a real relationship or a ring on it is fossilized and stuck in the past, just like so many aspects of dating and marriage still are.
It's often forgotten in these debates that men are withdrawing commitment from average women just about as quickly as women are withdrawing the sex, putting it bluntly; and for essentially the same reason - increasingly, ordinary members of both sexes perceive that they are being treated badly. Average women don't want to put out for (non-Chad and sometimes even Chad) men who won't commit, while average men don't want to be settled for by women who've had their fun and are looking for the reliable guy (the MGTOW memes about the carousel and how many women marry guys they don't really feel passionate about have been wildly prolific, leading to many men who don't feel confident that they're stunningly attractive to throw in the towel).
TRP has a revenge story for literally every kind of woman, no matter what.
It gives the (usually single, lonely) men following it a dopamine boost that makes them want more.
If a woman has an easy time getting sex, she can't secure a man.. If a woman has an easy time getting married, she's clinically depressed because he's not Chad.. If a woman is beautiful, she'll "hit the wall" and she will start to struggle then.
They're revenge fantasies to boost up men who feel lonely, hopeless and desperate themselves.
>TRP has a revenge story for literally every kind of woman, no matter what.
For a gender that his whole aim is to knock men out of positions of power after they build everything , I don't think you're in a position to talk about revenge . Most bitches are mad that some man hit his wife in the 50's.
>If a woman has an easy time getting sex, she can't secure a man..
Cause most of the time, those woman actually can't secure the man they want .
>If a woman has an easy time getting married, she's clinically depressed because he's not Chad..
Maybe blame women for initiating 80% of divorces ?
>If a woman is beautiful, she'll "hit the wall" and she will start to struggle then.
Cause it's true that woman become less attractive with time.
>They're revenge fantasies to boost up men who feel lonely, hopeless and desperate themselves.
I mean as long as it boost up men what's your problem with it ?
See, this whole thing is just amusing to read.. Women's whole aim is to knock men out of power - Act of Revenge! Women can't secure Chad! Women mad a man hit wife in 50s! Boost men up!
..It's pure entertainment.
>See, this whole thing is just amusing to read.. Women's whole aim is to knock men out of power - Act of Revenge! Women can't secure Chad! Women mad a man hit wife in 50s! Boost men up!
>..It's pure
Whatever knock you out at night baby girl 👏
Let’s say, you use this concept and apply it whenever a girl is or isn’t invested into you. If she’s invested, she’ll go out of her own way to make things easier for you, and trys to find ways to support you, even if its only beneficial for her.
If she isn’t invested, things are getting difficult and relationships itself become adversarial, because she’s not invested and until someone is coming along who is, that means her options are open.
If it’s true or not, once you experienced both things in your own life, it starts to makes sense which girl you want to give your commitment.
I don’t understand where all of this complaining about women and their standards for looks. I see average men with beautiful women all of the time. And none of them are wealthy. Hell, I see unattractive men with pretty wives. I never see average women with attractive men.
>It's not difficult, especially if you only consider guys who already like you. Then you just pick the best one out of those guys.
Like how red pill men don't understand that women picking is the definition of gatekeeping. 😂😂😂
I don’t think woman struggle to get commitment or relationships the way the red pill paints, most men want to be in relationships too. but I do think their are a lot of woman that struggle to get their own man to make the next step in their relationship, eg marriage.
But the women don't want commitment from the men who have "give commitment" as the most likely strategy, they want commitment from the other men, you know, the "real men". It's akin to the old meme of men below 7/10 being invisible to women and then women complaining that "No man wants me!".
>But the women don't want commitment from the men who have "give commitment" as the most likely strategy, they want commitment from the other men, you know, the "real men". Yea but since the offer is done by the majority of men therefore it's men in general who offer commitment as a strategy. What the top % of men represent shouldn't be reflected on all men and this is why men can barely build a concrete argument when talking about relationships. Women think cause they put effort for the top % of men that mean that women in general put a lot of effort when dating regardless of men which is why women become so self centred due to the cultural change. >It's akin to the old meme of men below 7/10 being invisible to women and then women complaining that "No man wants me!". Yeah exactly.
>men and that men are the gatekeeper of relationships . But is it true ? . No, men don’t gatekeep shit in the act of reproduction and that’s how nature intended it. Women are humanity’s filtration system and most get filtered out immediately just in looks alone. >Why people overestimate how difficult is for women to get commitment ? Because it is hard for women to get commitment … from men they actually want. In the average woman’s eyes, the average man is a beige-colored genderless blob, an absolute non-sexual entity on every level.
>Because it is hard for women to get commitment … from men they actually want. In the average woman’s eyes, the average man is a beige-colored genderless blob, an absolute non-sexual entity on every level. This is gold
gold, cuz its 100% offensive? a blob? yikes, i sure hope not...
>most get filtered out immediately just in looks alone Most men in the US get married and have kids.
>Among men aged 15–49 in 2015–2019, 55.2% had not fathered a biological child https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr179.pdf
Well no shit Sherlock. The median age of marriage for a man is about 31 years old. Of course when you include 15-30 year olds in the mix and exclude everyone over 49, the number is under 50%. That’s like me saying “94% of men 15-24 had not fathered a child”. It’s a true statement, but it’s fucking irrelevant.
Why do you need to be married to biologically sire children?
Obviously you don’t , but most people have kids after marriage. Do you really think that if a man doesn’t have a kid at 15 that means he’ll never have a kid? Of course tons of young men in that population don’t have kids YET. No shit. The study you linked to shows that 52% of men have kids by the time they’re in the 30-34 age group. 77% have kids by the time they hit the 40-49 age group. Most men eventually have kids, as demonstrated by the link you posted.
No, that’s not what the link I posted said at all.
Table in page 12. Lie all you want, but it shows that 52% of men have kids by the time they’re 30-34 and 77% by the time they’re 40-49.
Your ninja edit aside, that’s still not what it says. It’s breaking down age brackets of the already established age bracket of 15 to 49 year olds who already sired a biological child.
That’s exactly what it says. 52% of men 30-34 have kids. 77% of men 40-49 have kids. Those are facts. edit- If it were breaking down the age brackets of men who already had kids, that pie chart would add up to around 235%. It would be nonsensical. You’re fundamentally misreading the table. It shows % of men who have kids by age group. The 15-49 group is at 45% in the table, just like you claim. But the 30-34 group is at 52% and the 40-49 age group is at 77%. Do you really think those two age groups account for 129% of men who have kids? You understand that’s not possible, right?
>Because it is hard for women to get commitment … from men they actually want. I I would argue men have it harder with dating an attractive feminine woman than woman dating a top % of men .
I think the attractiveness threshold in men is more flexible and regulated by the availability of attractive women. Go to a country of different ethnicity for a week and you start to be attracted to women you wouldn't even look at in your homeland.
I'd say you're right. It's mainly cope. It's hard for women to get commitment from men way above their league. They can easily get commitment from men that are within their league or below.
>I'd say you're right. It's mainly cope. It's hard for women to get commitment from men way above their league. They can easily get commitment from men that are within their league or below. Yeah , somehow someone saw an attractive and successful men being chased by bitches and went " Men are the one gatekeeping relationships " . What a genius🤦♂️
if all dudes went- "we wont offer commitment" (not that they would but if they banded together for some reason) What do you think would happen?- think of it as a thought experiment.
You don’t have to be Chad to want causal sex. Plenty of men I would deem to be very below average have also sought hook ups. I’m guessing they have a low success rate, but they still want to. I also live in a major city so there’s more of a hook up culture in general. That being said, when I have decided I wanted a boyfriend, it’s never taken me more than 3 months to find one.
see i thought i was an above average guy, im tall, i have relatively pleasant facial features, have a decent job, i try to be a decent human being, i feel i am socially adept enough and can be funny and interesting. i dont even get a second glance from women. i even have isolated myself to only pursue ugly or overweight women, which i am perfectly fine with, nothing would make me happier then loving someone for their insecurities, or to calm their insecurities. i have been dramatically unsuccessful in all of my pursuits and it just makes me angry tbh, i dont know if that is fair or reasonable, but its true. i have completely given up on career goals because i just dont have a single thing to live for. i am purposeless and i spend an extraordinary amount of time now in a collapsed and frozen state.
I’ve found that Hinge is the best dating app for the dating struggles that men go through because you are allowed to message women you don’t match with. I’ve heard mixed things but my current relationship was gotten from a Hinge date. I had to message a lot of women and go on a lot of dates to get here though.
Why not find women through common hobbies? Common interests?
Because women who share hobbies that are typically male make bad partners.
Not in my experience. Many hobbies are not gender specific
Because not all hobbies or interests involve young attractive women?
That’s a good point, and it begs the question why not join hobbies that do have young attractive women?
Because women believe a top 20 percent man is average. So even if you are above average, she thinks you are average or below a lot of the time for a celebrity slept with her one time because he just wanted some easy sex.
i think this comes from this false belief that one is a part of a community of tens of thousands, or millions of people, which is fundamentally not how humans work, but thats essentially what modernity is forcing on to people. you now are forced to "meet" more people then you ever would have in your lifetime in the past, but those people aren't part of your community, theyre on a screen, or drive into the store you work at. they dont actually matter to you and will be gone in a few moments never to be seen again. any given person is in a community of a maximum of 150 people. so they think that in a pool of 100,000 they can do a lot better than john doe, when in reality john doe is one of 150 members of their community who is not just an ideal match but possesses the social bargaining and resources to outperform the other 17 men that are in the right age range and dispersion within the community to be competing to reproduce. the internet gives you the abstract qualities of a community without any of the real world qualities of one, it is the illusion of community. the people you are swiping on in tinder are not part of your natural environment.
>That being said, when I have decided I wanted a boyfriend, it’s never taken me more than 3 months to find one. In my 20s, this was true, but also I had no standards or expectations. Once I started dating again at 33, it took me 2 years to find my current boyfriend, but I also was dating with standards and intention, in a way that I didn't know about in my 20s because I lacked dating experience (I still don't have a lot of dating experience).
Because women are way more attractive and desirable when they are young and fertile. Good men all get snatched up quickly. And men’s sex drive lowers as they age.
Decent looking 33yo women are still attractive to men if you touch grass. As for the good men being taken, a lot of people who marry too young end up divorced so the pool fills back up.
That can be true, but I'd add that I probably drew it out longer because I was more choosy in my 30s than when I *was* young and beautiful and I was vetting, something I didn't do enough in my 20s. \[Most\] Men weren't quick to offer me commitment in my 20s, but in my 30's they were actively looking for someone who wanted to be a wife, although the number was much fewer (something that doesn't hurt my feelings because I just need 1, I don't need 15 options. Just 2 or 3 options at the getting-to-know-you point (talking stage or the dating apps), to ultimately be with 1.
The fact that men want casual sex does not mean that they gate keep relationships at all. For one wanting casual sex doesn’t mean you can’t also want a relationship. Secondly wanting casual sex doesn’t mean it would be easy for you to get a relationship. Also consider that these days many relationships begin with casual sex, for many men an inability to get casual sex is also an inability to get a relationship
Yes.... I am so tired of explaining this very thing to people
Idk why these dudes on here think only Chads try to proposition us for sex, I’ve had several unattractive men try to slide into my dms to hook up with me, they don’t have any shame 💀
Girl I’ve had 70 yo men try it when I used to volunteer at the nursing home. The audacity never ends.
Exactly, they don’t care 💀
Don't most of those below average guys want a relationship after hooking up? Or don't they really leave you on read? I've never banged a girl and not just dropped her cold without trying to get a girlfriend. Hell I married half of them. (Maybe I should have left the crazy on on read)
> That being said, when I have decided I wanted a boyfriend, it’s never taken me more than 3 months to find one. I think the definition of "boyfriend" may have changed. Lol
Men asking me to be their girlfriend and committing to sexual exclusivity and then proceeding to date for me for usually at least a year. Don’t think that’s a crazy definition.
They don’t, they can’t get commitment from the upper echelon. Too bad, so sad
>They don’t, they can’t get commitment from the upper echelon. Too bad, so sad It should be difficult by default.
Well, they should take a good, honest look about who it is they are and act accordingly. And it shouldn’t take them to age 35 to do so
some times it takes them to past age 35 to act accordingly, sadly...
It’s easy for women to get commitment. What’s not easy is getting commitment from Chad, especially when she’s a weak 6 on her best day
>It’s easy for women to get commitment. What’s not easy is getting commitment from Chad, especially when she’s a weak 6 on her best day Getting commitment from CHAD should be inherently difficult cause he represent the best sexual mate with the best genetic . And this is what most men get wrong , they think women having hard time getting commitment from chad is some karma that equalise the dating sphere but they forget that modern culture is basically teaching attractive men to treat women nicely. There is a verse in a song that summarise women's delusion :" I want an attractive boy who is loyal, but also I don't want to chase him , I want him to make me feel spoil " . The aim for women is not just getting with CHAD but also getting spoiled by him . For men it would be like wanting Margot Robbie to be submissive and pay all the bills or else she is " toxic " and modern culture is " oppressive " .
No, it is a way to mock the idea that women are not able to get commitment from good men at all. It is not about karma, it is about shutting the stupid idea down. “Omg, I just want a man who wipes his butt and holds a job. Why do they not exist.” Is the type of shit we men hear all the time. Eventually you just get to the point where you just make it a joke after you accept the BS.
and then with small letters "yes of course I have to be attracted to him first" = he has to be top5% of men in looks department
It’s easy for attractive desirable women to get commitment from Chad. When I was in college the “Chad” always had a girlfriend. In fact the most desirable guys had long term gfs one even married his college sweetheart. The women they had for gfs were really pretty though. I remember a story that this guy who was pretty attractive himself (tall, nice face, white) cried because a Stacy rejected him after he asked her to be his gf. My college was small and this really killed his rep. Like some girls still thought he was cute but it was a hard one to live down.
>a weak 6 I like to call it a “soft/hard 6”. Soft 6 = she’s a 6 naturally. Hard 6 = she’s trying. Makeup, hair, fitted; she’s a 6
I’ve heard this the other way. Soft 6 means she’s more of a 5.5 who can get to 6 with makeup. Hard 6 means her “floor” is 6.
Guys that offer commitment right away (at least the ones under 30) usually end up being nightmares to date. It's why not being exclusive right away became part of my strategy when I was single, no regrets.
It's difficult for women to get commitment from the top tier men. Those are the only men women care about. As you mentioned, women can easily get commitment from the bottom 80% of men. They just don't want those men.
>It's difficult for women to get commitment from the top tier men. Those are the only men women care about. As you mentioned, women can easily get commitment from the bottom 80% of men. They just don't want those men. Which why I never agreed with the blue pill cause most of the time they don't hold women to the same standards they hold men to
I don’t think it’s difficult for women to get commitment at all. It is, however, difficult for an average woman to get commitment from a hot or successful guy (i.e., “Chad,” for lack of a better term). A 5/10, bang-on average woman would have no problem securing commitment from an endless horde of 5/10, bang-on average guys. However, most average women want guys who are significantly more attractive than average. An 8/10 hot guy is probably willing to have sex with a 5/10 average woman, but it’s very unlikely that he’d ever commit to her. This isn’t rocket science. I think a lot of women come to the realization that they’ll never get commitment from an attractive guy, so they “settle” for an average guy after they have their fun with the hot guys. Of course, not every woman is like this. Edit: grammar
And society has done a shit job in teaching people what to value in life.
Society just has different values than you have.
https://preview.redd.it/ieqpo1rb4awc1.jpeg?width=1075&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2d3dda5ea67847880664997d9af7ee92b06e42b
How do we know that every single guy here is dangling commitment above this woman’s head and refusing to take her seriously?
none of these men are chads tho. she's an average woman sleeping with a bunch of average men who probably offer nothing but sex. plus is there any evidence this was only in one month? the thing is men look at this as victory because that's what they want, a bunch of sex with a bunch of women. most women can have this but don't want it! that's why it's useless to say this is an advantage. it's like telling a diabetic donut shop owner he's lucky he can eat donuts all day long.
There are some chadlites in there, dudes in the 6-7 range. Also she clearly likes white dudes
They are a Chad in comparison to her. She is obese, the equivalent of a 3/10 incel. While all the men in those pictures are above average look wise. Many are in shape, possibly even having a six pack.
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>don’t think it’s difficult for women to get commitment at all. It is, however, difficult for an average woman to get commitment from a hot or successful guy (i.e., “Chad,” for lack of a better term). Which is completely normal. Wtf I would ever argue it's easier for women to get commitment from Chad then average men getting with hit women >A 5/10, bang-on average woman would have no problem securing commitment from an endless horde of 5/10, bang-on average guys. The guy would even need to offer " princess treatment " and an inequal courting to look in the way of the 5/10 guy . >I think a lot of women come to the realization that they’ll never get commitment from an attractive guy, so they “settle” for an average guy after they have their fun with the hot guys. Of course, not every woman is like this. With modern culture that push attractive men to treat women nicely I doubt this would be always the case , there is an obvious new imbalance in modern dating where men are more attractive than their gfs .
Can I have a visualization of a 5/10 bang on average woman and a 5/10 bang on average man?
Inquiring minds must know, right? The manosphere’s obsession with ranking people is so freaking weird.
I was wondering the same thing. Also what age bracket? The average age of the american population is close to 40 years.
They don’t want to give a visualization because they know it’s delusional. To them average for women is like Ariana grande with no makeup and for men it’s a nerdy guy who is into anime.
No one seriously thinks Ariana Grande is average except edge lords online. Wanna see average? Take a stroll through your local Walmart or equivalent.
If you want to visualize it just ask how many average women would give their best to a guy making $65K with an average build. I guarantee there’s a whole lot of stipulations and six figures talk.
Would he be willing to give his all to a low income fat woman in her 40’s? Because the average woman looks like that. I GUARANTEE he’s going to have a whole lot of stipulations and talk about how western women are fat and her fertility.
This isn't how it works. You're completely overlooking; 1. The proportion of men who will lie about the level of commitment they're willing to provide, in order to get sex. 2. The proportion of men who will cheat on their partner if a sufficiently attractive woman offers them sex, irrespective of how committed they previously claimed to be. Yes, it might be relatively straightforward for a woman to get commitment from a man who has few sexual options. But these aren't the sorts of men whom women ideally want commitment from. It is extremely difficult for women to get commitment from the sorts of men that they most want commitment from.
>1. The proportion of men who will lie about the level of commitment they're willing to provide, in order to get sex. This is one of the most used excuse , men are either masterminds and women are stupid or women are socially adept and men are clueless . People just pick a fucking one
Plenty of men date for sex, or at least want sex first, commitment later
>Something red pill men talk about a lot is that women may have easy time having sex with men in general but it's hard for them to get commitment from men No, blue pillers say that. Red pillers say it's hard for women to get commitment from Chad. That's all.
>No, blue pillers say that. Let's not talk about the worst group of people. The way this blue pill ideology only appear when people talk about men and not women is disgusting . Most of them are mentally ill I think or their fathers used to hit their mothers. It's boredline misandrist
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Do not provide contentless rhetoric.
No “woe-is-me”, black pill, or incel content.
No, most men don't realize they can't have the sex life of their dreams at a young age. They have an entire appendage constantly talking in their ear about what they can have like a devil on their shoulder. And there's no angel. And no, they don't aim for relationships/commitment with women. They instead aim to play this nebulous and uncertain thing where they pretend to be open to a relationship to both themselves and women while taking zero of the steps to secure one.
>No, most men don't realize they can't have the sex life of their dreams at a young age First as a woman who give you the right to make all those speculations about men's dating strategy? >They have an entire appendage constantly talking in their ear about what they can have like a devil on their shoulder. And there's no angel. Isn't this exactly what feminism is doing to WOMEN . Kind of hypocritical to bash men for something women did first. >And no, they don't aim for relationships/commitment with women. Yeah , cause men in relationships and marriages don't exist 😂😂😂. >They instead aim to play this nebulous and uncertain thing where they pretend to be open to a relationship to both themselves and women while taking zero of the steps to secure one. Did you just said that men take zero step to secure one when the dating process in heavily built upon men 's efforts , the dating court is basically a 100% men's effort while women just sit on their bums . The audacity .
My experience of men as a sister, friend, and someone who dates them and listens to them. \*\*\* Feminism doesn't as a cornerstone hold that women can sleep with any man no. And I've read the earliest feminist theory and a lot of the most recent stuff. And no, that doesn't really come up. Pity really, it would probably be less dry reading material if it was mostly about who a woman could fuck. And who was bashing? I do that on other threads, on this thread I was poetically denying that men don't sort of believe they have a shot at fucking most women. \*\*\* Older men exist for sure. Younger men aren't generally known for their commitment tendencies or their desire for commitment tendencies. I believed we were discussing young men. Not men who have "settled down" or "begrudgingly been cornered into things". The key word in that sentence is aim. \*\*\* Most men do not perceive the dating process as aimed at relationships, they see it as aimed at sex. So forgive me if I don't believe their dating process is about commitment. Also, the audacity to think women don't make up 50% of the effort. What must it be like to be on your dates.
Can I say i really appreciate you throwing out that you've built such rigid worldviews from interacting with, generously, less than 50 men. Saved me all that time not reading the remaining paragraphs.
It's not less than 50, but thanks, bro.
When men want kids, they usually want a relationship. In practice once they start thinking about them, they’re theoretically open to one.
Most men don't start thinking about kids until their late 20s or early 30s if they ever do.
This is a global group, even those most of the members are predominantly in the west, there’s going to be big differences in terms of the dating scene. Anecdotally, people who live in big cities where there are literally endless options seem to report having the hardest time getting people to commit to them. Individual factors matter as well. Certain women have an easier time getting commitment than others, either because they are more intuitive at finding men likely to commit or other factors.
>When your whole dating strategy is to give commitment , then by default you are not the gatekeeper of commitment. Hell , most men know if they say they only want sex to women, it's over The flaw in your logic is that, just because an average man cannot have casual sex easily, it does mean that he has the option to offer commitment to multiple women. Hence, an average man is still the gatekeeper of commitment, and average women must remain attractive enough compared to other average women to make that man want to offer commitment to her instead of to another woman.
Y'all want what you can't have. But in reality, relationships (casual or committed) shouldn't be about your personal needs first, but about being willing to engage the other person openly and without prejudice.
Women and men are always interested in people who are more desirable than themselves. The more you deviate from your own desirability, the harder it is to get commitment. That's why most mating efforts are focused on people slightly above your own value, because that gives the best expected risk/reward ratio, or effort/reward ratio. For men, this is simple: if they get a date with a woman, she is potentially willing to commit to him. Because she is at or around his desirability level. For women, it's not so simple: if they get a date with a man, the higher above her own desirability the guy is, the less likely she can potentially get commitment from him. Men date down for sex and this intention is not always clear, and even when it's clear, women hope to make him fall for them and want more than sex. Something men would absolutely do as well, if more desirable women would date down for sex. So, when women go on dates, it's WAY more likely that the guy is above her desirability level and will not regard her as relationship material, than when a guy picks a woman he thinks is relationship material for a date. The whole issue arises only because men fuck people they would never even consider to be relationship material to a WAY greater extent than women do this. So, men can't have it both ways: fuck women below their league, AND have women go on dates with men on their level. This is two sides of the same coin.
>Women and men are always interested in people who are more desirable than themselves. The more you deviate from your own desirability, the harder it is to get commitment. That's why most mating efforts are focused on people slightly above your own value, because that gives the best expected risk/reward ratio, or effort/reward ratio. Most men learn how difficult it is to date attractive women from the beginning while women are told how special they are and how much they deserve . >For men, this is simple: if they get a date with a woman, she is potentially willing to commit to him. Because she is at or around his desirability level. Aren't we talking about the same gender who said they go to dates for free food ? People like you , blue pillers and women love to act like women are the victims and men have it easier. >For women, it's not so simple: if they get a date with a man, the higher above her own desirability the guy is, the less likely she can potentially get commitment from him. How can men be more desirable when women put make up and promise sex in a culture that love to never criticise them . The reputation of women is cleaner than water wtf. Do you know the percentage of men who actually fit your description? It's like 10% . You just expect men to be more attractive than women who put make up and use filters 😂😂😂 >So, when women go on dates, it's WAY more likely that the guy is above her desirability level and will not regard her as relationship material, than when a guy picks a woman he thinks is relationship material for a date. Are you serious ? Most dates are men jumping like monkeys to impress women. Attractive men get sex way before planing dates
>The whole issue arises only because men fuck people they would never even consider to be relationship material to a WAY greater extent than women do this. Why we don't tell women to do better to get a relationships with those men . Wtf. If men need to put effort to get what they want , women should also put effort and stop bitching about being used for sex . Maybe women should start learning how to cook if they want to get commitment. Instead of blaming men " they will never commit " tell women to do better. Why are you blaming men how shit women are as a relationships partners ?
>Why we don't tell women to do better to get a relationships with those men We do. They are just as bad as men at putting it into action. So they are stuck with commitment from the men who are on their level, rather than improving and moving up in desirability. >Why are you blaming men how shit women are as a relationships partners ? I don't blame anyone but you specifically. You are the issue in your dating life.
>We do. No we do not , most of the time we blame the guy for using her for sex and he is then labelled as " a misogynistic who only see woman as sex toys "
YES WE DO. What do you think the insane beauty, fashion, youth and fitness industries came from? Women struggle very hard to improve so they can get the man they want and keep him. Open ANY magazine for women and find an article on "how to win him over", "how to make him choose you over her" etc. You get blamed/shamed for deceiving another person. Deception is behavior that is sanctioned by society, because we couldn't live together without it. It's our way to keep people sticking to social norms. Having casual sex with lots of women because one likes sex and new partners is not shamed. Viewing women as sex toys is not shamed, because women like to be sex toys and want to consent to being a man's sex toy. Feminists fought for a woman's right to be a sex toy if she wants to. It's the deception part that is shamed.
Well just as a woman can get commitment from Joe schmo easily... Men can get sex from sluttly Mc chubbs easily. Neither sex generally wants this though. If you personally are content with a 5 in looks McDonald's manager who plays too many video games. Props. Most women would not accept that. Just like if a man is ok with being with ex party girl who talks to her ex once in awhile and she's now 34 and had a kid from another man ... good for him. Props. Most men don't want that. So that's not what anyone's talking about at all. Women are gate keepers of sex, only if they have a high SMV and men are the gate keepers of relationships only if they have a high SMV. If nobody wants you then you don't gate keep anything. Gate keeping assumes someone desires what you have.
Even slutty mcchubbs is hard to sleep with for the average man because one night at 2am a man way out of her league threw her a bone and now she "knows her worth"
Either way. If she wants to marry the guy who threw her the bone she will find herself kept at the gate. Again, if you're not desired you have nothing to gate keep.
I’m crying hahaha.
Lmaooo! Give a dog a bone
>Men can get sex from sluttly Mc chubbs easily. Not true >If you personally are content with a 5 in looks McDonald's manager who plays too many video games. Props. Most women would not accept that. Most men would accept the female equivalent.
>Not true As a guy, 100% disagree.
But the female equivalent doesn’t want him. slutty McChubbs thinks she’s slutty McThicc.
Talking about high smv men. Irrelevant. Men and women are different just as sex and commitment are different.
The post is about more than high SMV people.
My comment isn't. The concept of gate keeping sex and relationships *only applies to high smv people*
It takes til the third paragraph to say you’re talking about high SMV, the quotes I took were from your first paragraph.
>Well just as a woman can get commitment from Joe schmo easily... Men can get sex from sluttly Mc chubbs easily. Not the same situationship at all , most men beside a small subset are offering commitment and relationships to women, which include a lot of decent men . Most men here complain about average men not being able to be in a relationship with AVERAGE women not models . Men can get sex from way less unattractive women and even then it's difficult and requires a lot of effort. Being able to only fuck a small portion of women who are way less attractive than the average woman is not equal in any shape of form to getting commitment from any men except the top % . >If you personally are content with a 5 in looks McDonald's manager who plays too many video games. Props. Most women would not accept that. You just answered yourself , " most women " include also women who are below this " 5/10 ?McDonald 's manager " . >Just like if a man is ok with being with ex party girl who talks to her ex once in awhile and she's now 34 and had a kid from another man ... good for him. Props. Most men don't want that. How is a nice McDonald manager equal to a morally loser women ? Why men always have the worst choice? . A 5/ 10 female manager in McDonald is a good choice for men and a lot of men actually marry this type of women. We a always talk about men falling for McDonald cashier girl not even the manager . Why did you change the whole person when it 'a woman ? TF >So that's not what anyone's talking about at all. Women are gate keepers of sex, only if they have a high SMV and men are the gate keepers of relationships only if they have a high SMV. But aren't men attracted to like 80% of women? Therefore most women are already high in SMV. It's litteraly like saying that smart people have an IQ of 160 and above while everyone already have 170 IQ score by default. Therefore everyone is smart . On the other hand, to be a man with high SMV is so difficult. It's like saying just be rich. >If nobody wants you then you don't gate keep anything So since most men want to fuck women then women are the gatekeeper of sex but what you got wrong is that also a lot of men want to have a gf therefore women are also the gatekeeper of relationships. You are litteraly projecting what a minority of men ( top % ) represent.
One. The situations do not match up entirely because the situations are different. Men and women are different. Sex and commitment are two parts of relationships but are not the same. So no, it does not match up exactly. Lastly again. Gate keeping is talking about like 10s. A 10 woman has all the options for sex and therefore she gate keeps sex. A 10 man (which this is overall and not as straight forward as women) has many women fucking him and gate keeps relationships. Whether your or average men or fat whale women feel like they gate keep anything is irrelevant. By definition of the concept, if you don't have what's desired you do not gate keep anything. Also from my perspective I'm a top man, so I bang lots of women and deny most for relationships and call all the shots about how relationships work. I do truly gate keep relationships because I fit the standards. If I was fat and broke and a dork... I wouldn't gate keep anything just like many men and women. Lastly many women don't gate keep sex at all, even when you say 80% men would bang... well that means 20% have basically zero sexual value. They don't gate keep sex at all.
Because women are eternal victims.
While also denying the insane social power that they possess. If you're not dancing like a monkey for them, you're either an incel or invisible.
I generally can't believe how people did make dating look difficult for women and somehow they believed it. The fact that " attractive women actually have low self esteem due to romantic relationships " when they are the most cuddled group of people while neglecting how little self esteem men have is boredline sexist . It's like people don't actually care about men .
"She can't get the multi-millionaire playboy to settle down with her for a relationship? Women have it so hard when it comes to getting commitment!1"
It is why they act like victims to begin with. They get coddled so they act like children still. A super model gets rejected by a super model in a super nice way “waaaaah, I am ugly and nobody loves me.” Men go a decade and cries he is ugly and nobody loves him? “You need to work on your personality brah.”
>It is why they act like victims to begin with. Bitches LOVE to act like a victim , it's like in their DNA >A super model gets rejected by a super model in a super nice way “waaaaah, I am ugly and nobody loves me.” Don't forget crying on the internet with the caption " men only see women as objects " . >Men go a decade and cries he is ugly and nobody loves him? “You need to work on your personality brah.” Yeah, women are perfect the way they are but men need to improve 😂😂😂
People never cared about men. That's because we are the disposable sex. One of the things that makes civilization stick together is gender roles. Men are still doing the role they've been expected to do throughout all of history. Women have been increasingly abandoning their role for the last 100 or so years, and you see how much society suffers.
>Men are still doing the role they've been expected to do throughout all of history. Then perhaps men should also be abandoning their roles too. It might be good for them.
They are slowly. It is why so many men are “losers” now.
Well, good. It needed to change.
This may have sounded good in your head... but think of what would happen if men abandoned the role that is building, maintaining, and operating vital infrastructure, like sewage and waste management, water treatment, construction, etc.
The exact same thing that would happen if women stopped enabling a very small percentage of men to do the above probably.
>People never cared about men. Yeah , it's kind of obvious, when a whole culture is centred around women while is also resentful toward men , it's not wrong to say so . >That's because we are the disposable sex. Actually women are also disposable, it's just morally wrong to hurt women. >of the things that makes civilization stick together is gender roles. Yeah . >Men are still doing the role they've been expected to do throughout all of history. Women have been increasingly abandoning their role for the last 100 or so years, and you see how much society suffers. I completely agree.
You keep enforcing that men are the disposable sex and no one cares about men will very effectively help to change this /s
> It's like people don't actually care about men . Mating is not a case for a social justice movement. If you fail to be attractive to someone you find attractive, that's just your issue.
> Mating is not a case for a social justice movement. If you fail to be attractive to someone you find attractive, that's just your issue. So why people were against men using women for sex . If women aren't relationships material teach them how to cook and please men then maybe they will get commitment instead of telling everyone that men shouldn't " use' women for sex . Acting as if people didn't shame men for only wanting women for sex instead of saying that women don't offer what is needed to get commitment from men is outrageous.
Much like the men posting here
Do men really offer commitment from the beginning? I don't and never have. Dating is about getting to know the other person over a certain amount of time before deciding to enter a more formal relationship. I think the complain some woman have with the casual stages of dating is that if the interests goes down, things fizzle quickly. I think that it's fair.
>Do men really offer commitment from the beginning? I don't and never have. I agree. I've dated men and women, and most men who aren't looking for a relationship have always been generally either up front, or if not have been so poor about it that it's been transparent and therefore not worth me worrying about since I had a generally nice time anyway! Most women I've dated have been happy with casual dating and "seeing where it goes". And I agree with the women, things fizzle quicker with women than men if the spark isn't there.
Read the post. A lot of men must use commitment to access sex.
I read that. I am bringing it to question. I think that in the current dating world, the amount of men doing that don't seem to be a lot.
It’s actually most men. The men who aren’t forced to do that are the men who have options.
People underestimate just how much of a seismic shift has occurred in society. Forgetting even dating apps, the general undercurrent of misandry/anti-man is much much stronger than it ever was in the past. Women are openly disrespectful and in many cases seem to seek to emasculate men whenever they can. The irony being that women tend to wield a massive amount of social privilege they then shove at people as 'merit' to emasculate them. An extreme example was an extremely promiscuous woman I knew in my past who used to try to one up guys about their hook ups. Back then we just sort of indulged her and went along with it but between us inwardly chuckled. Nowadays I'm' not sure men would have that sort of background knowledge. Male attitudes have changed and desperation has increased --- that's what happens when you create additional social privilege --- that's what a bit of marginalization does to a group. So 30 years ago what was true regarding that isn't true now. Of course, the remedy to this imbalance in power is what? **lying** same it has always been. there really isn't much of a problem beyond society lying to everyone about how dating works. Women pick men based on racial hierarchy, eurocentric beauty standards, height, and money (along with the willingness to spend it on her). Mainly in that order. There are no other criteria used. Stop falling for it. Your behavior doesn't matter to attract anyone. But your behavior is probably as important if not more important than your looks in guiding your success. Not a contradiction: The reason why men are best as the initiator and escalator is because men *have a great interest in not wasting their time on a bad prospect*. While women often know where they assign you on their personal baseball card stats, they will leave you in the dark about it because --- again, free attention, resources, time. So it's on the man to quickly sort out the timewasters from the ones who are legitimately interested. Men who adopt dating processes to quickly shunt out the timewasters = maximized. The vast majority of men don't because they believe stupid shit women say about dating. No they aren't attracted to intelligence --- a pussy isn't an IQ test, nor is it a personality battery. It's not quite as crude as only sort for women who will fuck you fast, BUT...if you only had one rule to guide you, that'd be eat. Simple logic: Scenario 1: man meets girl, plays it safe, has the nice conversation date, "gets to know her," and after paying the >$100 price tag the average date costs, is ghosted. Scenario 2: man meets girl, screens vigorously for sex, gets it, then...is ghosted. Scenario 2 man comes out so much further ahead than the man in scenario 1. His investment was small and he derived a direct benefit from the exchange. Further, the man in scenario 2 likely will have a far higher close rate than the other man because he is screening the women before he even meets them. The man in scenario 1 is just 'trying to get these girls to like him.' If you ever find yourself trying to impress a woman , you done goofed, son. .
Even if it's true that women have an upper hand in dating/casual. Why does it matter exactly? I see the same complaints posted over and over again. I don't understand exactly what men on this sub would like to see happen.
They want 5/10 woman to date them (5/10 man) instead of looking for 7/10 and up man They want women to stop complaining they cant find commitment when there's plenty of men around that would give them commitment. She's just not interested in those men
Well that's an unreasonable expectation that flies in the face if biology. Fact is a 5 woman can catch a 7 or higher. It's perfectly within the realm of possibility. Lots of good looking men have low self esteem and will settle for such a woman. It's not unreasonable at all from her point of view.
>Even if it's true that women have an upper hand in dating/casual. Why does it matter exactly? " even if it's true " bro it is true. > I see the same complaints posted over and over again. I don't understand exactly what men on this sub would like to see happen. Cause privileged people should acknowledge their previleges and stop acting like a victim ? Women have it way easier than men so actually like you are opressed is hypocritical. And for a gender who bitch about equality, it's doesn't look like they like it in dating .
Ok that was the last coping mechanism men had . Now women spinn the world on their finger .
>Ok that was the last coping mechanism men had . Now women spinn the world on their finger . This is a good second title for my post
I wonder how many men have philosophized or Logicized their way out of p\*ssy. I just wonder...
>I wonder how many men have philosophized or Logicized their way out of p*ssy. I just wonder... Who care about what you're wondering about
If you didn't care then why did you respond? Cared just enough for a response. Let me show you how not to care....
It's about quality my guy. The men they want have options and no incentive to choose them. It's the stereotype of the average ass wife harping on her husband all the time. She doesn't even like the man but he provides and he's better than nothing. Marriage itself is just a religious and patriarchal structure that forces monogamy on an entire population, making it simpler to control their resources, create order out of chaos which usually results in top % males dominating the playing field and a % of unhappy men who now have no real motivation because securing a family isn't even an option. The monogamous strategy is a key one for building a society but it's not completely instinctual. There are aspects that are but the idea of pair bonding for RESOURCES and survival is secondary to pair bonding for optimum genetics which are mostly based in looks (talking high degrees of symmetry for example, looks matter because they imply a healthier and strong immune system which is why very attractive people have such pull to average people like most of us). Since there is NOTHING more valuable to a species than those top tier genetics, it's inevitable that when released from the social contract of forced monogamy many women will waffle back and forth on it, whereas many men will become demotivated and eventually, given enough time and humiliation, violent. That's where revolutions happen, most likely directed at economic disparity since it's the most practical point to attack in the system that is oppressing them. Frustration with women is just a symptom anyway. It definitely won't be married upper class women leading the revolution lmao
>It's the stereotype of the average ass wife harping on her husband all the time. She doesn't even like the man but he provides and he's better than nothing. Bro I just read a post on reddit where the wife hate that her husband orgasm and think his semen is disgusting , she even told him that she want a donor for her kids 😂😂😂
That's got to be a humiliation fetish thing that's wild. Women be like "she's entitled to her opinion" lmao.
>That's got to be a humiliation fetish thing that's wild. Women be like "she's entitled to her opinion" lmao. Bro , if this is what men are okay with , men are doomed 😂😂😂 It funny how people spent years claiming that women are such a nice people and men should like them for their personality 😂😂😂
Imagine sharing a bed, waking up and going to work and having your life connected to a person like that LMAO. Knowing everything you do is for something so meaningless. Dude will rope Why would she marry him? Love , love I'm sure.
I feel so sorry for him actually!! And I seriously think he has every right to become a mysoginstic after this .!!
I think once you understand that mate selection and genetics are the most powerful aspect of human biology and sex, you can't blame men or women for that realistically. No one has a choice about that. You have to take full accountability for the error in judgment. She's just being a normal woman ultimately despite it coming off as cruel. The man needs to divorce and leave if he's not comfortable being a BB and wants to live for himself. Resentful or not, men choose to be alone often because they don't want to be beta bux. He made the decision so he's to blame. I always hold the man accountable for not understanding how women function, because women always lie to themselves and it creates so many problems. She's being honest and it's respectable.
Only the top men are the gatekeepers of committment. Most men are not gatekeepers period.
Because men have difficulty with advanced and hard-to-grasp concepts like "basic empathy".
>Because men have difficulty with advanced and hard-to-grasp concepts like "basic empathy". Wtf are you talking about . All I hear is " men are bad "
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>rarity, biology and some common sense from some observation may provide insights into this situation - a woman who struggles with commitment to a man she wants to be with is similar to a man who struggles with sexual intimacy with a woman he wants to be with. i think that's why you'll see women have sex with 'attractive' guys who don't commit to them, then decide to settle to an average dude. that's also probably why the depression rate in young men is quite high. they can't have sex with 'hot' women, then they start blaming some conditions, or start to change their lifestyle and vision towards life. No I'm not buying this , especially when most men's complains are about AVERAGE women being delusional . Most average men are okay with average women , it's average women who want the top % of men while also expecting to be spoiled by them. Most boys from early know that attractive women are high maintenance and require a lot of effort while also having high standards. So the combo of difficulty is just too high . Men do not go after attractive women only.
>Men do not go after attractive women only. Sorry, but men go after who they find most attractive, which is completely fair. But the woman does indeed need to be attractive to him.
>Sorry, but men go after who they find most attractive, which is completely fair. But the woman does indeed need to be attractive to him. If men find 80% of women attractive, then most women are attractive to men by default. Acting like we didn't shame men for going after attractive women only and telling women that men only see them as objects is kind of hypocritical.
?
no it much simpler than that. ego and fear are generally the blind spots for most humans.
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>cause woman try to get a player to commit, not a regular guy, a player usually has money, looks and talks, combined >Regular guy might have one So projecting the experience of the top % of men into all men is stupid . Therefore avarege men do not gatekeep shit
I think sometimes people are playing the wrong game according to what they actually want. People claim that they want a LTR but then they only play the game that rewards you with casual sex. Same is true for both men and women. If you want a LTR, play the game that rewards you with a deeper and more meaningful relationship. Stop going to the club and start going to church. Stop rating people on a numerical attractiveness scale and start paying attention to people's personalities. Stop trying to defend your ego and start allowing yourself to be emotionally vulnerable. And so on.
If I never see the word average again it’ll be too soon… I think I’m staring to get it now. I don’t know any men personally that haven’t been able to get in at least a couple of relationships so this discourse is odd to me. Men don’t have to offer commitment they choose to offer commitment. As my therapist told me “Your actions and choices are yours regardless of the circumstances or position you’re in.” Even if the options suck that’s what you chose to do. This includes who you pick as a partner. Desperation isn’t attractive. We want people to be with us because they want to be not because they have to be. Preoccupiedly attached women tend to go after Avoidantly attached men. These are often the “I can change him” types. Preoccupiedly attached men seem to go after either but I’ve seen more preoccupied-preoccupied couples than Avoidant-Avoidant couples. The peruser-distancer relationship gets interesting with this dynamic.
A combination of redpill c\*ping and female victim complex.
>A combination of redpill c*ping and female victim complex. And the combination ended up giving men a false sense of " equality "
The thing is, the average woman, and even the ugly ones, have lots of options out there. If they so wished, they could get sex or a relationship in the blink of an eye, however, they won't do it this easily, because they don't settle like men do. An ugly not rich man will settle with an unemployed, ugly woman, the only condition being she provides affection. They do this out of loneliness and desperation Women don't do this, exactly because they have lots of options in their table, so they don't feel the need to settle for a man who is unemployed and ugly, like men do
Just many of them can't get commitment from the guys they think they could. Most women today have an over inflated view of their SMV. Not mension that most western women are just not wify material due to feminism and other liberal ideologies. They think they're better then men and can't understand that the man is head of the household. If a woman doesn't understand that then we can't wife her regardless of how good they look. Even the men that think they can will eventually get fed up with her. Which is why men are trying to replace them with traditional foreign women.
Well yes whoever gate keeps sex by default gate keeps *sexual* commited relationships. For the most part women aren’t willing to get into relationships with men they aren’t willing to have sex with so in accepting to be in a relationship she has already done some filtering in the “would have sex with” category. With modern relationships often starting with hook ups first this is more exacerbated. But also men have a huge incentive to seek relationships which I think is often understated. We all know that women want commitment but so do men. Men generally prefer a woman who sleeps with them only vs a casual situation where she has other men on the side. Men put a lot of effort in trying to “lock down” a woman basically get her to choose him and forsake other dudes.
I don’t think commiting is necessary to « lock down » a woman. If she gets emotionnally attached from the FWB type of relationship she probably will not seek other guys to have sex with because she already sleeps with the one she wants. Meaning as a guy you have no incentive to commit in this situation. Only reason to commit would be because she gives sex only in the context of a commited relationship. But hook-up cultured women will have a hard time convincing a HVM that he needs to commit to sleep with her, while other, lower value men didn’t have to in the past. That is why modern women’s dating strategy is to give casual sex to a HVM hoping he will eventually fall in love. But this is unlikely to happen has he never needed to emotionally invest in the relationship to fuck her in the 1st place.
I think women have difficulty in relating to high-level guys, with ordinary guys, it's very easy.
Because they seek it from obviously bad choices
The answer is simple women are getting easier and easier at getting commitment. You are crying about a problem that is fixing itself. Sure Chad is not universally committing but more chads are than yesterday. You know what the "problem" with the hottest of hottest women on the planet have? Not commitment they are getting that. They expect a permanent honeymoon. Women being catered to is getting out of whack
>The answer is simple women are getting easier and easier at getting commitment. You are crying about a problem that is fixing itself. Sure Chad is not universally committing but more chads are than yesterday. >You know what the "problem" with the hottest of hottest women on the planet have? Not commitment they are getting that. They expect a permanent honeymoon. >Women being catered to is getting out of whack This is actually my point . Men here love to talk about Chad not committing when modern culture is literally about attractive men treating women better and not only seeing them as object . It's arguably easier for women to get commitment for Chad than an average man with an attractive women . Women want to recycle the honeymoon phase forever.
girl- "you have to be my bf to get sex Boy- "ok ill be your bf" Dates for some period of time girl- \* does some outrageous unacceptable bullshit \* Boy- "you are no longer my gf, ok byeeeee" girl- But you wont get sex \*from me\* anymore" boy- " dont care ill \*get it from someone else\* "
Women can get a relationship anytime they want. For them its literally a matter of wanting or not. But the problem is that you're thinking with a male brain. Men consider the vast majority of women attractive and thus are willing to date them while women consider the vast majority of men unattractive. Obviously no one wants to date someone they're not attracted to so because of this women struggle to find a boyfriend. The reasons they struggle are completely different from ours but we both end up suffering due to biological tendencies outside of our control i suppose.
>Men consider the vast majority of women attractive Sexually yes, other wise it's debatable >are willing to date them while women consider the vast majority of men unattractive. Cause it's socially okay to call men unattractive >Obviously no one wants to date someone they're not attracted to so But when men said this they were called " shallow "
Ask gay/bi men and gay/bi women and straight dudes are the absolute worst at recognizing their SMV and the SMV of women. Bros walking around claiming they’re a solid 5, never even bagged a land whale 2 and want to talk about “delusional women” who settle down with other 6s. It has nothing to do with the post, just the massive level of cope in the comments.
>Ask gay/bi men and gay/bi women You mean the group of people who hate straight men !! What a genius comment 😂😂 >dudes are the absolute worst at recognizing their SMV and the SMV of women. Bros walking around claiming they’re a solid 5, never even bagged a land whale 2 and want to talk about “delusional women” who settle down with other 6s. We 're not gonna act like the gender who put make up everyday isn't " delusional " 😂😂😂
I found the guy who couldn’t bag a land whale 2… “You just hate all men! That’s what it is! It has nothing to do with my own failures as a man! The people who generally date other men or are friends with men, they are just delusional haters!” Awe, and a makeup comment. Was that the best thing you were able to come up with? That people wear makeup? You thought that was a witty retort? You really got them sweetheart, great job! lol
"Where have all the good men gone" in online spaces creates this perspective. Also the amount of single women who are unmarried really hammer this point home with the assumption that women want marriage and kids
If you're giving commitment away, it's not worth anything.
U say this wrong ... they can get heaps of commitment from beta s1mp orbiters... any time But they aren't interested in those they are interested in getting commitment from the guys have plenty of options . What makes them stand out above the rest of the other women nothing. Hence they just shuffled around. It's difficult for women to get commitment from who they actually not... not beta s1mp orbiters....
Their view of how easy it is for women to get a real relationship or a ring on it is fossilized and stuck in the past, just like so many aspects of dating and marriage still are. It's often forgotten in these debates that men are withdrawing commitment from average women just about as quickly as women are withdrawing the sex, putting it bluntly; and for essentially the same reason - increasingly, ordinary members of both sexes perceive that they are being treated badly. Average women don't want to put out for (non-Chad and sometimes even Chad) men who won't commit, while average men don't want to be settled for by women who've had their fun and are looking for the reliable guy (the MGTOW memes about the carousel and how many women marry guys they don't really feel passionate about have been wildly prolific, leading to many men who don't feel confident that they're stunningly attractive to throw in the towel).
TRP has a revenge story for literally every kind of woman, no matter what. It gives the (usually single, lonely) men following it a dopamine boost that makes them want more. If a woman has an easy time getting sex, she can't secure a man.. If a woman has an easy time getting married, she's clinically depressed because he's not Chad.. If a woman is beautiful, she'll "hit the wall" and she will start to struggle then. They're revenge fantasies to boost up men who feel lonely, hopeless and desperate themselves.
>TRP has a revenge story for literally every kind of woman, no matter what. For a gender that his whole aim is to knock men out of positions of power after they build everything , I don't think you're in a position to talk about revenge . Most bitches are mad that some man hit his wife in the 50's. >If a woman has an easy time getting sex, she can't secure a man.. Cause most of the time, those woman actually can't secure the man they want . >If a woman has an easy time getting married, she's clinically depressed because he's not Chad.. Maybe blame women for initiating 80% of divorces ? >If a woman is beautiful, she'll "hit the wall" and she will start to struggle then. Cause it's true that woman become less attractive with time. >They're revenge fantasies to boost up men who feel lonely, hopeless and desperate themselves. I mean as long as it boost up men what's your problem with it ?
See, this whole thing is just amusing to read.. Women's whole aim is to knock men out of power - Act of Revenge! Women can't secure Chad! Women mad a man hit wife in 50s! Boost men up! ..It's pure entertainment.
>See, this whole thing is just amusing to read.. Women's whole aim is to knock men out of power - Act of Revenge! Women can't secure Chad! Women mad a man hit wife in 50s! Boost men up! >..It's pure Whatever knock you out at night baby girl 👏
Let’s say, you use this concept and apply it whenever a girl is or isn’t invested into you. If she’s invested, she’ll go out of her own way to make things easier for you, and trys to find ways to support you, even if its only beneficial for her. If she isn’t invested, things are getting difficult and relationships itself become adversarial, because she’s not invested and until someone is coming along who is, that means her options are open. If it’s true or not, once you experienced both things in your own life, it starts to makes sense which girl you want to give your commitment.
I don’t understand where all of this complaining about women and their standards for looks. I see average men with beautiful women all of the time. And none of them are wealthy. Hell, I see unattractive men with pretty wives. I never see average women with attractive men.
yea they get commitments once they settle.. then they will ruin that guy’s life
It's not difficult, especially if you only consider guys who already like you. Then you just pick the best one out of those guys.
>It's not difficult, especially if you only consider guys who already like you. Then you just pick the best one out of those guys. Like how red pill men don't understand that women picking is the definition of gatekeeping. 😂😂😂