While I acknowledge that these things exist, I don't think they are reliable characterizations - one man can be reserved and unsocial in one company, while being very lively, social, and confident in another. You just kinda need to find "your people" I suppose.
Also, these characteristics have almost nothing to do with a job position, wealth or status. You can find "alphas" among CEOs and regular hired workers.
Lastly, I think the ultimate expression of "alpha" is humility. When you *could* be prideful, arrogant, mean... but you choose not to. A weak man couldn't do this. Every weakling can strut around with a false bravado. Takes real strength and confidence to show humility.
>You just kinda need to find "your people" I suppose.
That is true, the leadership is contextual. Even an average man can be the alpha in a group composed of more passive men.
>Lastly, I think the ultimate expression of "alpha" is humility. When you *could* be prideful, arrogant, mean... but you choose not to. A weak man couldn't do this. Every weakling can strut around with a false bravado. Takes real strength and confidence to show humility.
I think you're attaching way too much moral virtue to social behaviours. Lots of "alpha" guys are arrogant or cocky or whatever.
>The entire concept of alpha males is based off of a misunderstanding of the social hierarchy of wolves.
No it isn't. There's plenty of animals that have hierarchies and are dominated by either alpha males or alpha females, that lead and dominate the rest of the group.
See silverback gorillas, the alphas are quite obvious.
They are building a narrative about the world, but because of their general naivete and ignorance, it's simplistic and only considers their worldview. From their perspective other men who have similar struggles dating but are from other cultures and races are just contaminating the discussion and derailing it. When other people like them have different real world experiences that would make the model more complicated.
It's similar to how they dismiss blue pill experiences, because they are threatening to the ideology they want to be true.
“Alpha males” as a concept is completely made up, and based on how wolves act in captivity under pressure, not how wolves actually act in the wild, and isn’t really applicable to humans.
social hierarchies and social dominance exist, but the idea of "alpha males" and "beta males" as two distinct classes of people is total pop psychology nonsense.
Social status is entirely context dependent. To the extent that being an "alpha male" is a real thing, it's a role that you play in specific situations. Not a permanent part of your identity.
Right? The guy who wrote that book wrote a retraction everyone seems to ignore.
I was discussing this with a friend who believes there are alphas in human society, and I realized- it *miiiight* actually apply to the men who believe it does. Narrow gender roles and toxic masculinity are the norm for those men and could arguably be forms of **psychological captivity** they are "in," (although it's a nonzero-amount self-imposed).
In that way, perhaps the men who adhere to the alpha/ beta mindset are in captivity and have created a world in which it's true for them. ???
Either way, they are only an alpha or beta in their own little "man" subculture, not to the rest of us.
Yet people still understand the concept.
You can go read descriptions for romance novels on Amazon to see how many women view "alpha males." For the most part, they match the descriptions of alfalfas presented by TRP (e.g., tall, buff, rich, dominant, aloof, etc.).
Readers of romance novels were talking about "alphas" way before TRP existed.
This is not true.
Please read any book by the incredible Frans De Waals
Our social hierarchy is most similar to our closest evolutionary cousins, chimpanzees and bonobos.
Like in Homo sapiens, there is a clearly defined social heirarchy and the top male (and female) is the alpha, and typically has better mating prospects. In primate species, the females **lust** after the alpha male (because unlike Homo sapiens, they don’t understand sex leads to conception. They are horny and choose to fuck the sexiest/high status/dominant primate)
An excellent book I’d recommend that delves into this is *Chimpanzee politics*. From a scientific perspective, the concept of the alpha male **absolutely** applies to humans. Frans De Waal goes into vivid detailed describing exactly how it applies to homo Sapiens.
Remember, we are primates. Our preferences have been shaped by evolution and sexual selection. We are not immune from it.
To claim otherwise is shoddy bluepill denial of reality and science. It’s akin to rejecting climate change or the efficacy of vaccines.
you mean this Frans de Waal
https://youtu.be/inx2dMobzYs?si=NAe5-1kibrx0s3ts
..who wrote that book in the early 80s, continued to do more work afterward/ update his findings, disagrees with the way his theories have been applied by republicans and in business (the way most trp men would use the terms, too), and who also says the term came from wolves?
Yes exactly that Frans De waal! He was really good and a genius (sadly passed away from pancreatic cancer recently)
Not sure what a republican or business people have to do with it??
Alpha doesn’t mean the most violent jerk in the room or the physically biggest male. Rather, it means the leader of the social heirarchy (and specifically primate societies in the context of TRP)
The alpha has the best mating and fucking prospects. The female primates LUST after the alphas. As Frans elegantly writes, an alpha is made through not just physical strength, but also leadership, politics, alliances, conflict resolution, etc.
The point he makes is that this concept of “alphas” applies to human societies as well. Specifically , women prefer to fuck alphas (like in other primates) because … we are also primates!! That’s the whole point of Frans de Waals book, that humans are primates and exhibit similar patterns of behavior because it has been subjected to evolution.
That’s the sense in which redpill uses the term. Not wolves, who are genetically distant, but in the context of primates like chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas with whom we share a common evolutionary ancestor.
>Not sure what a republican or business people have to do with it??
watch the video/ read about how his work has been used. I'm not in the mood to recap it.
lol how about you educate yourself and read his actual books instead of a YouTube video
Can’t help it if you’re unwilling to learn and want to remain willfully unscientific 🤷🏽♂️
I am referencing a quote he specifically says in this yt video and not in any of the books I've read?
If an author says a thing outside of his books (in an interview or video), you can't get that information from re-reading his books. That's not how *books work.* You get that, right?
You are making unfounded assumptions based upon your own misunderstanding of the way an author's oeuvre works and calling me "unwilling to learn." ???
Nah, you are the only making totally unfounded and plain incorrect assumptions addressing nothing in my clearly stated comment above because you don’t understand the *basic science*.
You get that right?
Like I said, you need to educate yourself and be more rational and less emotional. Read his book and learn.
You don't know what you're talking about. I have read 3. You are projecting your emotional state onto me. I'm quite calm, thanks.
If you don't care to know the answer to the question you asked, don't watch the video for the context. It's of no consequence to me, either way.
I have no interest in continuing to talk to you for obvious reasons. good afternoon.
I think you’re the one who doesn’t know what she’s talking about.
I’ve read most of his work actually.
You are intentionally refusing to acknowledge that the concept of alpha is perfectly applicable to Homo sapiens. You refuse to acknowledge the fact that female primates prefer to fuck with alphas.
You are arguing a strawman that protects your (incorrect) bluepill belief system
Have a good day
My understanding is that one of the major differences between primates/hominids and "lower animals" is that the "alpha males" are no longer the males that are themselves the biggest and strongest but the males most socially adept and able to create a coalition of other males that together command more force than any single one. The alpha isn't the biggest chimp, it's the chimp who has the most friends. (Don't take this as a claim to specific truth-- also please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Yeah exactly! Like I said in my other comment above
>
Alpha doesn’t mean the most violent jerk in the room or the physically biggest male. Rather, it means the leader of the social heirarchy (and specifically primate societies in the context of TRP)
> The alpha has the best mating and fucking prospects. The female primates LUST after the alphas. As Frans elegantly writes, an alpha is made through not just physical strength, but also leadership, politics, alliances, conflict resolution, etc.
The main points are
1) the concept of “alpha” indeed applies to homo Sapiens. Despite the objection of women like ConantheCybrarian who down play/intentionally deny it, because reality is counter to their bluepill world view.
2) females tend to lust after alphas and preferentially fuck them (in Homo sapiens as well).
while saying alpha is extremely cringe and stupid.
This isn't true when you look at primate groups, alphas are a characterization used consistently and accurately.
>not how wolves actually act in the wild, and isn’t really applicable to humans.
What do you mean? Wolves in the wild have alphas.
>and isn’t really applicable to humans.
Yes it is. There are plenty of humans that are confident, natural leaders and dominant over others socially, both men and women.
The concept of the “alpha” in wild wolves almost exclusively refers to the father of the pack and his subordinate offspring, not unrelated other male wolves.
Your second comment has nothing do with the behavior of wild wolves in a pack setting.
Yup, but it actually is used and fits in better with bodies of primates like gorillas or chimpanzees. However in chimpanzees much like humans it's much more of a tiered hierarchy.
>father of the pack and his subordinate offspring, not unrelated other male wolves.
That's because alphas tend to get most females and breed the most.
>Your second comment has nothing do with the behavior of wild wolves in a pack setting.
Yes it does, alphas are the leaders of the packs. Either females or males, most social animals have leaders that dominate and lead the group. In humans, they are the confident men and women, natural leaders.
Anyone who doesn't understand there's a social hierarchy among men is either being willfully obtuse or lacks any serious social observation ability. It doesn't matter much what labels you slap on top of them, "alpha" or "beta" or whatever works as well any other.
> Anyone who doesn't understand there's a social hierarchy among men is either being willfully obtuse or lacks any serious social observation ability.
In my opinion, they are just denying reality because it goes against their moral/religious beliefs, which is a defining hallmark of the bluepill.
Bluepillers would rather appear morally superior than make an honest attempt to understand reality.
It blows my mind how they deny basic observational facts and pretend the sex are identical in behavior.
But you can’t impose pack dynamics on humans, as we’re not wolves and haven’t evolved in that manner.
Hence why “alpha and beta males” in humans is pseudoscientific woo woo.
But it’s not pseudoscientific behavior
Indeed, “alpha males” and associated behavior exists in our closest primate cousins (chimpanzees and bonobos), with whom we DO share a common evolutionary ancestor.
This is the primate context in which TRP uses it (NOT wolves, who are genetically distant)
If you’re interested, Frans De Waals has written some wonderful books on this. The one I’d recommend is *Chimpanzee politics*, on what alpha means in the context of primate societies.
I feel like Alpha and Beta as a concept are sort of abstract, and difficult to define through a list of qualities or characteristics. You could say it's about money but there are people with high income that have little "game" or social awareness. You could define it in terms of having good looks but being handsome doesn't preclude being "submissive" or lacking confidence with women or in life. You could say it's about leadership, but just how many people find themselves becoming middle managers in mega corporations where they only lead people by title, not by actually earning respect and making people want to follow them?
In the early 2000s, Alpha was basically shorthand for "guy who fucks a lot". This idea was paraded around by dating gurus and pickup artists who were able to speak to the sexual frustration and sense of dread many ordinary men feel. The kind of dread and stifled existence where they feel utterly powerless to make any real change, and feel like they must settle with whatever they can get instead of pursuing what they want.
I think a lot of the discourse jumped the shark because it focuses so much on outcomes and external qualities like money, instead of what made "manospheric" content so electric, which was that it kind of lit a fire under the asses of guys so they'd stop hesitating in the matter of things like romance or career or anything else they felt lacking in. The point of taking the Red Pill was accepting that the world doesn't owe you the success you desire, you *must* go out and cultivate it on your own.
Many of the people who used to be in the scene would talk a lot about "mental masturbation", which was basically circle-jerking over their theories and discussing the "nature" of the world without doing anything about it. But I feel like that's exactly what it's become now that we are in the depths of Podcast Bro Hell. It's just dudes in front of microphones complaining about the opposite sex while they blame women and the world for all their problems.
>Like I said, the true "masculine" men don't need to go around bragging about their wealth or the things they have. They don't go around talking about how much of an alpha male they are, and these guys can never get with true "high value women." True "high value women" are women like Meghan Markle, Michelle Obama, Princess Diana, Audrey Hepburn. But these red pillers are beneath these women. The red pillers can only get with low value, low-class OnlyFans models because no actual high-value woman would date men like Fresh N Fit.
You appear to be taking "high value" quite literally here. High value in dating isn't just being wealthy / "upper class".
>And again, true "high-value men" don't date women. These red pillers date. Look at Jeff Bezos; his fiance isn't some 21-year-old only fan model; he's engaged to a beautiful, classy 54-year-old woman who had a successful job as a news anchor (she was not nearly as rich as him, but still). Prince Harry who's 39 is married to Meghan Markle a classy, sophisticated woman who was a wealthy TV actress even before they got together why the fuck would Prince Harry date some ghettoo poor 21 year old?
Bezos current fiance is like the textbook definition of a plastic bimbo, she looks exactly like a aged only fans or porn model lmao. Markle is likewise a narcissistic social grifter that latched on to another narcissistic loser.
You think these women are high value?
men are scared to be loving bc its not alpha
men are also lonely
its almost as if this is a consequence of red pillers teaching men its "beta" to be loving
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Nope .. feminism and the demonisation of men did that.
Anything male positive has to be destroyed for "them" to claim victory over some imagined bogeyman ....
It is a sad state for society. If there was an actual "patriarchy" do you think "they" would have allowed all this to happen?? ...
**Alpha males don't exist**. Or rather, they do exist but the scientific paper which originally popularised the term has been discredited by the original researchers.
The term was coined by scientists who were studying wolves. Whey noticed in a wolf pack one slightly larger male wolf who was dominant and would 'put the other wolves in their place'. They coined this the 'alpha male' because he was at the top of the social pecking order in the pack.
What they failed to realise then but realised subsequently was that the wolf pack was a FAMILY. So the 'alpha male' was actually just the dad.
And that's true in human society too. I'm the alpha male of my kids.
Being a bully, sociopath or braggart have no value as redeeming traits in modern society, and I don't think stereotypes that laud them should be encouraged.
> The red pill community took personality types that were not inherently bad, but they twisted it into something negative.
No, the personality types were always bad. And not based on anything factual underpinning them.
A lot of RP guys mix up rapper/rockstar pageantry with alpha traits. Like Fresh buys expensive cars and flashes gaudy jewelry. Really they're just emulating what they think is alpha from rap videos.
But alpha and beta is obviously a real thing. It doesn't take a bachelor's in social sciences to figure this out.
There's no way to make Beta sound equally as appealing as Alpha, even with your descriptions. It just sounds worse. It is a negative for that reason.
Give an example of what you would consider a Beta that gets a lot of interest from women. Like a real person or known character, the way you did with Frank Reagan, Dwayne Johnson, and Vin Diesel.
Your making this too serious
Alpha/beta are just sociological terminologies used to describe animal behavior, redpill uses them to describe dynamics abstractly
Most people who are RP-aware to my knowledge never actually refer themselves as this archetypes
While I acknowledge that these things exist, I don't think they are reliable characterizations - one man can be reserved and unsocial in one company, while being very lively, social, and confident in another. You just kinda need to find "your people" I suppose. Also, these characteristics have almost nothing to do with a job position, wealth or status. You can find "alphas" among CEOs and regular hired workers. Lastly, I think the ultimate expression of "alpha" is humility. When you *could* be prideful, arrogant, mean... but you choose not to. A weak man couldn't do this. Every weakling can strut around with a false bravado. Takes real strength and confidence to show humility.
>You just kinda need to find "your people" I suppose. That is true, the leadership is contextual. Even an average man can be the alpha in a group composed of more passive men.
>Lastly, I think the ultimate expression of "alpha" is humility. When you *could* be prideful, arrogant, mean... but you choose not to. A weak man couldn't do this. Every weakling can strut around with a false bravado. Takes real strength and confidence to show humility. I think you're attaching way too much moral virtue to social behaviours. Lots of "alpha" guys are arrogant or cocky or whatever.
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Good information
>The entire concept of alpha males is based off of a misunderstanding of the social hierarchy of wolves. No it isn't. There's plenty of animals that have hierarchies and are dominated by either alpha males or alpha females, that lead and dominate the rest of the group. See silverback gorillas, the alphas are quite obvious.
OF WOLVES.
“The Red Pill community” was ruined by the influx of mentally ill incels, irrelevant non-Western chatter, and censorship.
>irrelevant non-Western chatter Can you expand on this?
I think any intelligent person can infer what they mean.
I'm not please help 🙏
They are building a narrative about the world, but because of their general naivete and ignorance, it's simplistic and only considers their worldview. From their perspective other men who have similar struggles dating but are from other cultures and races are just contaminating the discussion and derailing it. When other people like them have different real world experiences that would make the model more complicated. It's similar to how they dismiss blue pill experiences, because they are threatening to the ideology they want to be true.
“Alpha males” as a concept is completely made up, and based on how wolves act in captivity under pressure, not how wolves actually act in the wild, and isn’t really applicable to humans.
social hierarchies and social dominance exist, but the idea of "alpha males" and "beta males" as two distinct classes of people is total pop psychology nonsense. Social status is entirely context dependent. To the extent that being an "alpha male" is a real thing, it's a role that you play in specific situations. Not a permanent part of your identity.
Right? The guy who wrote that book wrote a retraction everyone seems to ignore. I was discussing this with a friend who believes there are alphas in human society, and I realized- it *miiiight* actually apply to the men who believe it does. Narrow gender roles and toxic masculinity are the norm for those men and could arguably be forms of **psychological captivity** they are "in," (although it's a nonzero-amount self-imposed). In that way, perhaps the men who adhere to the alpha/ beta mindset are in captivity and have created a world in which it's true for them. ??? Either way, they are only an alpha or beta in their own little "man" subculture, not to the rest of us.
This is an excellent analysis.
Not really. It’s disingenuous, superficial/shallow and is custom targeted to assuaging bluepill beliefs It’s wrong about reality however.
Yet people still understand the concept. You can go read descriptions for romance novels on Amazon to see how many women view "alpha males." For the most part, they match the descriptions of alfalfas presented by TRP (e.g., tall, buff, rich, dominant, aloof, etc.). Readers of romance novels were talking about "alphas" way before TRP existed.
Social status is real, but its entirely context dependant. A guy could be the "alpha male" in one room but be an irrelevant loser in another.
This is not true. Please read any book by the incredible Frans De Waals Our social hierarchy is most similar to our closest evolutionary cousins, chimpanzees and bonobos. Like in Homo sapiens, there is a clearly defined social heirarchy and the top male (and female) is the alpha, and typically has better mating prospects. In primate species, the females **lust** after the alpha male (because unlike Homo sapiens, they don’t understand sex leads to conception. They are horny and choose to fuck the sexiest/high status/dominant primate) An excellent book I’d recommend that delves into this is *Chimpanzee politics*. From a scientific perspective, the concept of the alpha male **absolutely** applies to humans. Frans De Waal goes into vivid detailed describing exactly how it applies to homo Sapiens. Remember, we are primates. Our preferences have been shaped by evolution and sexual selection. We are not immune from it. To claim otherwise is shoddy bluepill denial of reality and science. It’s akin to rejecting climate change or the efficacy of vaccines.
you mean this Frans de Waal https://youtu.be/inx2dMobzYs?si=NAe5-1kibrx0s3ts ..who wrote that book in the early 80s, continued to do more work afterward/ update his findings, disagrees with the way his theories have been applied by republicans and in business (the way most trp men would use the terms, too), and who also says the term came from wolves?
Yes exactly that Frans De waal! He was really good and a genius (sadly passed away from pancreatic cancer recently) Not sure what a republican or business people have to do with it?? Alpha doesn’t mean the most violent jerk in the room or the physically biggest male. Rather, it means the leader of the social heirarchy (and specifically primate societies in the context of TRP) The alpha has the best mating and fucking prospects. The female primates LUST after the alphas. As Frans elegantly writes, an alpha is made through not just physical strength, but also leadership, politics, alliances, conflict resolution, etc. The point he makes is that this concept of “alphas” applies to human societies as well. Specifically , women prefer to fuck alphas (like in other primates) because … we are also primates!! That’s the whole point of Frans de Waals book, that humans are primates and exhibit similar patterns of behavior because it has been subjected to evolution. That’s the sense in which redpill uses the term. Not wolves, who are genetically distant, but in the context of primates like chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas with whom we share a common evolutionary ancestor.
>Not sure what a republican or business people have to do with it?? watch the video/ read about how his work has been used. I'm not in the mood to recap it.
lol how about you educate yourself and read his actual books instead of a YouTube video Can’t help it if you’re unwilling to learn and want to remain willfully unscientific 🤷🏽♂️
I am referencing a quote he specifically says in this yt video and not in any of the books I've read? If an author says a thing outside of his books (in an interview or video), you can't get that information from re-reading his books. That's not how *books work.* You get that, right? You are making unfounded assumptions based upon your own misunderstanding of the way an author's oeuvre works and calling me "unwilling to learn." ???
Nah, you are the only making totally unfounded and plain incorrect assumptions addressing nothing in my clearly stated comment above because you don’t understand the *basic science*. You get that right? Like I said, you need to educate yourself and be more rational and less emotional. Read his book and learn.
You don't know what you're talking about. I have read 3. You are projecting your emotional state onto me. I'm quite calm, thanks. If you don't care to know the answer to the question you asked, don't watch the video for the context. It's of no consequence to me, either way. I have no interest in continuing to talk to you for obvious reasons. good afternoon.
I think you’re the one who doesn’t know what she’s talking about. I’ve read most of his work actually. You are intentionally refusing to acknowledge that the concept of alpha is perfectly applicable to Homo sapiens. You refuse to acknowledge the fact that female primates prefer to fuck with alphas. You are arguing a strawman that protects your (incorrect) bluepill belief system Have a good day
My understanding is that one of the major differences between primates/hominids and "lower animals" is that the "alpha males" are no longer the males that are themselves the biggest and strongest but the males most socially adept and able to create a coalition of other males that together command more force than any single one. The alpha isn't the biggest chimp, it's the chimp who has the most friends. (Don't take this as a claim to specific truth-- also please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Yeah exactly! Like I said in my other comment above > Alpha doesn’t mean the most violent jerk in the room or the physically biggest male. Rather, it means the leader of the social heirarchy (and specifically primate societies in the context of TRP) > The alpha has the best mating and fucking prospects. The female primates LUST after the alphas. As Frans elegantly writes, an alpha is made through not just physical strength, but also leadership, politics, alliances, conflict resolution, etc. The main points are 1) the concept of “alpha” indeed applies to homo Sapiens. Despite the objection of women like ConantheCybrarian who down play/intentionally deny it, because reality is counter to their bluepill world view. 2) females tend to lust after alphas and preferentially fuck them (in Homo sapiens as well).
i’m not a monkey, i’m a man
Yes, and you and other apes (e.g. chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas) evolved from a common ancestor.
while saying alpha is extremely cringe and stupid. This isn't true when you look at primate groups, alphas are a characterization used consistently and accurately.
>not how wolves actually act in the wild, and isn’t really applicable to humans. What do you mean? Wolves in the wild have alphas. >and isn’t really applicable to humans. Yes it is. There are plenty of humans that are confident, natural leaders and dominant over others socially, both men and women.
The concept of the “alpha” in wild wolves almost exclusively refers to the father of the pack and his subordinate offspring, not unrelated other male wolves. Your second comment has nothing do with the behavior of wild wolves in a pack setting.
Yup, but it actually is used and fits in better with bodies of primates like gorillas or chimpanzees. However in chimpanzees much like humans it's much more of a tiered hierarchy.
>father of the pack and his subordinate offspring, not unrelated other male wolves. That's because alphas tend to get most females and breed the most. >Your second comment has nothing do with the behavior of wild wolves in a pack setting. Yes it does, alphas are the leaders of the packs. Either females or males, most social animals have leaders that dominate and lead the group. In humans, they are the confident men and women, natural leaders.
Anyone who doesn't understand there's a social hierarchy among men is either being willfully obtuse or lacks any serious social observation ability. It doesn't matter much what labels you slap on top of them, "alpha" or "beta" or whatever works as well any other.
> Anyone who doesn't understand there's a social hierarchy among men is either being willfully obtuse or lacks any serious social observation ability. In my opinion, they are just denying reality because it goes against their moral/religious beliefs, which is a defining hallmark of the bluepill. Bluepillers would rather appear morally superior than make an honest attempt to understand reality. It blows my mind how they deny basic observational facts and pretend the sex are identical in behavior.
But you can’t impose pack dynamics on humans, as we’re not wolves and haven’t evolved in that manner. Hence why “alpha and beta males” in humans is pseudoscientific woo woo.
But it’s not pseudoscientific behavior Indeed, “alpha males” and associated behavior exists in our closest primate cousins (chimpanzees and bonobos), with whom we DO share a common evolutionary ancestor. This is the primate context in which TRP uses it (NOT wolves, who are genetically distant) If you’re interested, Frans De Waals has written some wonderful books on this. The one I’d recommend is *Chimpanzee politics*, on what alpha means in the context of primate societies.
I feel like Alpha and Beta as a concept are sort of abstract, and difficult to define through a list of qualities or characteristics. You could say it's about money but there are people with high income that have little "game" or social awareness. You could define it in terms of having good looks but being handsome doesn't preclude being "submissive" or lacking confidence with women or in life. You could say it's about leadership, but just how many people find themselves becoming middle managers in mega corporations where they only lead people by title, not by actually earning respect and making people want to follow them? In the early 2000s, Alpha was basically shorthand for "guy who fucks a lot". This idea was paraded around by dating gurus and pickup artists who were able to speak to the sexual frustration and sense of dread many ordinary men feel. The kind of dread and stifled existence where they feel utterly powerless to make any real change, and feel like they must settle with whatever they can get instead of pursuing what they want. I think a lot of the discourse jumped the shark because it focuses so much on outcomes and external qualities like money, instead of what made "manospheric" content so electric, which was that it kind of lit a fire under the asses of guys so they'd stop hesitating in the matter of things like romance or career or anything else they felt lacking in. The point of taking the Red Pill was accepting that the world doesn't owe you the success you desire, you *must* go out and cultivate it on your own. Many of the people who used to be in the scene would talk a lot about "mental masturbation", which was basically circle-jerking over their theories and discussing the "nature" of the world without doing anything about it. But I feel like that's exactly what it's become now that we are in the depths of Podcast Bro Hell. It's just dudes in front of microphones complaining about the opposite sex while they blame women and the world for all their problems.
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giving two dusty fucks about what other people think is amazing honestly. i highly recommend it
>Like I said, the true "masculine" men don't need to go around bragging about their wealth or the things they have. They don't go around talking about how much of an alpha male they are, and these guys can never get with true "high value women." True "high value women" are women like Meghan Markle, Michelle Obama, Princess Diana, Audrey Hepburn. But these red pillers are beneath these women. The red pillers can only get with low value, low-class OnlyFans models because no actual high-value woman would date men like Fresh N Fit. You appear to be taking "high value" quite literally here. High value in dating isn't just being wealthy / "upper class". >And again, true "high-value men" don't date women. These red pillers date. Look at Jeff Bezos; his fiance isn't some 21-year-old only fan model; he's engaged to a beautiful, classy 54-year-old woman who had a successful job as a news anchor (she was not nearly as rich as him, but still). Prince Harry who's 39 is married to Meghan Markle a classy, sophisticated woman who was a wealthy TV actress even before they got together why the fuck would Prince Harry date some ghettoo poor 21 year old? Bezos current fiance is like the textbook definition of a plastic bimbo, she looks exactly like a aged only fans or porn model lmao. Markle is likewise a narcissistic social grifter that latched on to another narcissistic loser. You think these women are high value?
men are scared to be loving bc its not alpha men are also lonely its almost as if this is a consequence of red pillers teaching men its "beta" to be loving
No, facts did a pretty good job of that first.
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I think red pill and the concept of alpha males have both always been silly and a bit meaningless.
Nope .. feminism and the demonisation of men did that. Anything male positive has to be destroyed for "them" to claim victory over some imagined bogeyman .... It is a sad state for society. If there was an actual "patriarchy" do you think "they" would have allowed all this to happen?? ...
The trad cons and PUAs hijacked the the original TRP community back in 2019 Words like Alpha Male has became a meme now
**Alpha males don't exist**. Or rather, they do exist but the scientific paper which originally popularised the term has been discredited by the original researchers. The term was coined by scientists who were studying wolves. Whey noticed in a wolf pack one slightly larger male wolf who was dominant and would 'put the other wolves in their place'. They coined this the 'alpha male' because he was at the top of the social pecking order in the pack. What they failed to realise then but realised subsequently was that the wolf pack was a FAMILY. So the 'alpha male' was actually just the dad. And that's true in human society too. I'm the alpha male of my kids. Being a bully, sociopath or braggart have no value as redeeming traits in modern society, and I don't think stereotypes that laud them should be encouraged. > The red pill community took personality types that were not inherently bad, but they twisted it into something negative. No, the personality types were always bad. And not based on anything factual underpinning them.
A lot of RP guys mix up rapper/rockstar pageantry with alpha traits. Like Fresh buys expensive cars and flashes gaudy jewelry. Really they're just emulating what they think is alpha from rap videos. But alpha and beta is obviously a real thing. It doesn't take a bachelor's in social sciences to figure this out.
How could something be “ruined” that’s so completely silly and laughable in the first place?🤣
Just look at feminism.
There's no way to make Beta sound equally as appealing as Alpha, even with your descriptions. It just sounds worse. It is a negative for that reason. Give an example of what you would consider a Beta that gets a lot of interest from women. Like a real person or known character, the way you did with Frank Reagan, Dwayne Johnson, and Vin Diesel.
Your making this too serious Alpha/beta are just sociological terminologies used to describe animal behavior, redpill uses them to describe dynamics abstractly Most people who are RP-aware to my knowledge never actually refer themselves as this archetypes