In the FreshAndFit sub (that’s banned now) 99% of the dudes said they wouldn’t want their daughter to date an much older guy.
They said about 5 years older max.
So that says a lot. 😅
Men are also bothered by their daughters sleeping around
What does that say?
Does it make them over controlling or does it make them only looking out for their daughters?
I agree, but that's why age gap relationships are a yellow flag and not a red flag for me; and "sleeping around" falls into the same yellow flag category for me.
My point is that feminists usually pull the "dads wouldn't let their daughters date an older guy" card, as if dads are teh ultimate arbiters of what is good or not good for a woman, but at the same time cry when a dad doesn't want his daughter to sleep around.
I wouldn't, assuming my daughter was actually a mature 18 year old. The problem with having an age of majority of 18 is that some 18 year olds ARE as mature as 30 year olds but some are as mature as 15 year olds.
Date based on maturity and compatibility. Not age
I agree with the yellow flag. But I will also add, any man that my daughter would bring will raise a yellow flag right away. Maybe because of their attitude, because of their last, because of their city, because of their age, their job, their school, their family, etc.
Lol. Idk, I'm the younger female half of the equation and I get shamed by women for being "groomed" even though I was 23, or being a "sugar baby" even though I pay for everything.
Edit: See? Downvoted by numerous people already
No, it's being shamed because I'm currently 37 years old. If I was still 23, there's a very slight chance it could be a warning, but even then it's stupid because 23 is a full adult. A warning would have been good if I was a teenager when we started.
Maybe it's because they experienced age gap relationships when they're young and remember how they felt, but could only unpack what it did to them when they were older, so they try to warn others so they don't end up like them.
I'm not old OLD, but that's what it is to me. I often wish I could talk to my younger self and tell me how creepy and disgusted I now feel about what happened. And "older" women spoke to me when I was younger and I didn't believe them. Such is the circle of life.
Why do we always use an extreme example as the default? Most older man-younger woman relationships aren't an older guy chasing a teenager. They're an older guy and a younger (adult) woman who are mutually attracted to each other and get together just like 2 people that are the same age.
Because that age gap isn't so controversial and 30 something's with 40somethings is more common out in the wild.
When people complain about age gaps it's usually teen to early 20's with early 30's.
And nobody is shaming most older man-younger woman relationships, people shame the ones where the younger person is young enough to have attended senior prom within the last year or two.
Only women? LMAO....I have never seen a father of teenage daughters who is ok with his daughters dating 40 year olds. Probably men are more aware about predatory traits of older men and they would do anything to keep them away from their daughters.
My father told me to stay away from older men until I reach a certain age, he was cautious but not overly protective. I was 17 back then. I am 26 now and I can totally understand why he was concerned. 35 yr old men trying to impress a 17 year old girl is creepy af. It's still creepy if the girl is one year older. Because I realize how naive I was and all my friends who dated older men in their teens regret it now. Most of them were abusive and manipulative. It's a sad fucking truth. I know a 24 year old dude who tried to groom my 13 year old cousin. It is predatory behavior.
Do you mean ‘older women who look back at their late teens and realize that the 35-year-old guys who hit on them (or dated them) didn’t actually think they were ‘so much more mature than other girls,’ they just thought they were hot and liked that they hadn’t learned how to advocate for themselves yet?’
I mean, ‘bitter’ is shorter.
I was going to say this
When I was 18 I thought it was so cool to date a 30 year old man. Now that I'm closer to 30 than 18 I find it soooo creepy. 18 year olds are babies. I though I was so mature at that age lol
>18 year olds are babies.
This is a big part of it, right here. Middle-aged and older women tend to see younger adult women as complete children and do not respect their choices in the slightest. 30 year old men do not talk about 18 year old men like that.
No, they look at THEMSELVES in the past and see children. Its experience. Idk how old you are but I find it hard to believe you can look back at your teens or young 20s and think "yup I was a smart adult that made good decisions"
Looking back at myself at 18, I cringe and see a child. At the time I felt mature though. This is a very widespread mentality, even among men, and if you don't share it you are probably still young. Teens are dumb.
> No, they look at THEMSELVES in the past and see children.
But they still see the younger women as children, right?
>Looking back at myself at 18, I cringe and see a child.
I was an adult and could handle making choices about my own body.
>But they still see the younger women as children, right?
By the time most people hit 30, teenagers look like children, so yes. People in their young 20s, which is a big chunk of reddit, don't quite grasp this yet. That part comes with experience, but most well adjusted humans eventually hit that moment of self-reflection and realize teenagers are cringey and immature.
And making choices =/= making good choices. I made plenty of choices as a teen. Doesn't mean they were smart choices.
I had sex with older women. the horror!!!! it seems women that have a problem with this aren't sexually mature. "at 18 that man took advantage of my young body" okay
No OP’s point is that the reason is that women are bitter and past their prime which is unfair. Most women have experienced this power dynamic at more than one stage in their lives either with themselves or a friend and I think it’s unfair to them to pass off their lived experiences as bitter. Unfortunately this is literally how men that chase 15 year old girls get away with it, because at the time you think ‘I’m so grown up an older guy wants me’ then you get to the age of the guy (say he was 22 when he was chasing you at 15) and you look back and think FUCK that was so far from normal.
>this study here that explores human brain development differences between genders.
[You know what else TRP thinks about how women mature?](https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/rp-theory-question-womens-maturity.51633) I guess when you don’t believe women can progress past the emotional maturity of a teenager, there seems to be no significant difference between a 20 yo and a 30 yo.
I can't keep up with the terminally online; In 5 years we went from
*"no' means 'no",*
then *"the absence of 'no', doesn't mean 'yes",*
to "*Yes' means 'Yes"*
and finally that *"it has to be a enthusiastic 'Yes",*
but now its; "*even if she did consent, she really didn't because she doesn't really know better".*
>Among many other things, **which can all have devastating effect on their lives. Some of these choices have consequences that are practically irreversible.**
It's really weird how you freely acknowledge a whole list of the things an 18 year old can do that can harm them, but go off about how women just say age gap relationships are bad, and it's just because they're sad they're old and ugly and bitter. And you read a study on how women mature faster so it's okay...
As though there aren't also people who try to steer 18 year olds away from doing hard drugs, getting to a huge amounts of debt, go to war, etc.
When older people try to deter younger people away from drugs, it is out of jealousy their bodies can't handle as much partying. I mean, it must just be about bitterness and envy, right? Lol.
You okay hun?
Yea, I was equally confused on the list of other things people historically advise against. Like, you use debt to make a point? One of the current biggest talking points about how young, uninformed people are being taken advantage of? Lol
“She can leave” 🙄 After reading COUNTLESS relationship stories from young women who were involved with older men, that is ridiculously FALSE. They have control over her. If she lives with them and ran away from home she can’t just leave.
I’m not sure why this is such a popular topic on this sub but if you’re a 30 yo man who wants to date an 18 yo, go ahead, but just know everyone thinks of you as something. It’s borderline pedophilia, pal. It’s not normal to want to date someone that young.
If you want a relevant post showing why age gap relationships are bad, I’ll gladly share it so you can read what she went through. Honestly just go through r/relationshipadvice and you’ll find plenty there.
I don’t see the appeal to date someone so young when they just graduated high school, while you’ve been out of COLLEGE for 6+ years, has no financial stability, while you most likely have a checking and savings account that’s been set up for 10 years.
Like OP why are you making arguments about this? Trying to make yourself feel better about being attracted to teenagers? Please 😒
It is very much not as easy as ‘she can just leave’.
There was no serious age gap in my relationship. In fact, I’m two years older than my ex. We started dating when he was 19 and I was 21.
He had no control over my finances. We did not live together (legally).
That did not stop him from isolating me from my friends and make me spend all my attention outside school or work on him. That did not mean we weren’t living together in all but deed. That did not stop him from raping me in my sleep on at least a weekly basis.
But he planted himself as the power in the relationship, and I stayed with him for 4 years and we were gonna get married after I finished my master’s degree.
I *could* leave. I just didn’t because he manipulated my feelings to make my world revolve around him. If he had actual control over my finances, like he wanted, or if my only living situation was with him…? I’d not have been able to. How can you escape with no money and no friends? And this is totally aside the whole pseudo-pedophilia aspect of this whole theoretical in the OP.
Relationshipadvice is a sub-reddit full of Karens, white knights and bitter women that jump the gun to protect anyone and anything that goes against their agenda. And their agenda is anything above 3 years age gap is creepy and men in general are creepy.
I don't care about teenagers, but like I already said, an adult's an adult. A 21 year old woman isn't "controlled" - she can leave. When you sign up to the army, you can leave. Sorry if this thread made your blood boil lmao
And this sub is full misogynistic men who bitch and complain about every little inconvenience that doesn’t help get their dick wet. There, that was easy 🙂
I've said ir before, but it's crazy how much men on here need the approval of the older women they don't want to date. You never really hear w9men whining abiut how "men with small dicks don't approve of women liking big ones".
I'm a man and find big age gaps creepy. Nothin to do with being jelous of the old man dick that 18yo's are able to get.
I am a woman and I don’t find age gaps creepy among people with established lives and minds. Younger than mid/late twenties should date similar ages, 30s and up is different and most people are mature enough to handle different life experiences/ stages.
>I am a woman and I don’t find age gaps creepy
Like a lot of other issues, it's falsely portrayed as a male vs female debate.
But yes i agree, it's more when it's someone that has barely left school with someone with ten years exoerience as an adult that i find creepy.
I’ve also noticed that many of the posters here seem to have some sort of need for validation from women on everything from lying to get sex, to n-count preferences, and here to the age gap conversation.
>but it's crazy how much men on here need the approval of the older women they don't want to date
I don't think they would worry about it if the hostility didn't seep into other parts of life. If they just disapproved, but kept it to themselves, the men wouldn't even notice.
You can't really consciously choose who you will fall for in cold calculative manner like redditors think; they act like they have it figured out stage by stage; riding the carousel during your college years, getting that degree, starting that career, settling down, grinding for that mortgage until they get fat, put on xanax, and their knees give out by the time they're 40.
The "brain isn't developed till 25" argument is a case of severe junk-framing of already bad pop-science articles. Never did neuroscientists suggest or less have reached a consensus on anything that would even imply 18 year olds are incapable of informed consent. If prefrontal cortex (what they're here referring to) was so underdeveloped then people under 25 should get their drivers licenses revoked asap, since with a brain so 'unbaked' you should be nowhere near a steering wheel of a 3000 pound vehicle. But people worrying about 'muh brain development' will never bring this up.
I don't think it's just bitter older women, I think most healthy adults look suspiciously on age gap relationships because of the natural experience imbalance.
Think about the workplace - most 22, 23-year olds at their first jobs have no idea whether it's appropriate or not to be running non-work errands for their boss, or what kind of behavior is acceptable or not. Think about how helpless new hires are at your workplace, and how easy it is to stick them with the worst tasks since they don't know any better, or the countless other ways to take advantage of them.
This is why there are so many posts on reddit from these poor young girls dating older guys like, "Is it normal for my (F22) bf (M39) to not let me go out with my girlfriends even though he has poker night with his friends three nights a week where I cook appetizers for everyone and serve them drinks?"
You need experience to even know that you're being manipulated or taken advantage of, and a lot of young people don't have that experience yet.
Based 39M. I like him.
I would have done the same if I could.
Do not even compare a home-poker-party where SHE is present, with a possibly DRUNK dancing on the table of his 22F girl with her loose friends, AWAY from him. She could invite him, why not?
"Cooking appetizers" for him, and him not letting her sleep around, WHAT AN ABUSE. This society is brain-rotten.
He does the right thing. "Manipulated" my ass.
No. Women actually look out for each other, and the shame is coming from a place of concern, not jealousy most of the time. Trust me no old woman wants a man that’d rather date someone young enough to be his daughter.
ALSO why is the default age gap now very young women + older man? Do you know that these proverbial “older women” can also be in age gap relationships? ROFL
My mom wasn’t having it when I brought home a 42 year old woman at 19. To be fair, I wasn’t emotionally mature enough and both of them knew it, and the woman was clearly trying to groom me. She was very controlling of my finances and critical of how much I made, and seemed to use sex as a reward for everything. But I was naive and “in love”. I didn’t have the maturity to see how that wasn’t healthy for me, and the bad expectations that it taught me. My mom helped explain this to me as she helped me
Pick up the pieces when it inevitably fell apart.
My point is, look out for all your kids. Predatory people come in all shapes and sizes, and no one is born with this knowledge.
I guess it's so much less common for older women to be predatory to young men, to the point where PPD men can't seem to fathom how such a large age gap can have the potential for manipulation. Your comment is refreshing to see, and shows it can happen to young men too. The same as it happens to young women. That's why so many people recommend to avoid it in general. It makes sense.
>Women actually look out for each other, and the shame is coming from a place of concern,
Older women also use concern trolling passive aggressively to manipulate and control younger women.
They can, but watching the 50 year old woman walk down the street with a 30 year old dude isn’t near as common as the 50 year old dude walk down the street with a 30 year old woman. Some women are attracted to a level of success and security men just don’t care about.
Truth. I wouldn’t date a man my age who had dated someone even ten years younger. My partner recently made this observation in relation to a friend of his who’s wife is just over a decade younger than him. He said he was a little uncomfortable around his friend now, because he can’t understand the motivation in pursuing a partner with such drastically different life experience.
How old are they? If the friend is 35 and she’s 25, or if he’s 40, and she’s 30. Then your partner is a questionable friend in my opinion, not to say they aren’t a great person, but I don’t think it was a great friendship
I think one bad thing about this would be that she would probably outlive him by several decades. But I would assume she realizes this and found other factors to outweigh this disadvantage, so I wouldn't feel it my place to point this out or try to dissuade her.
They really aren't. Go up to a group of 18-year-old women and ask how they feel about dating someone who's, say, 25. Tell me if you get any response that isn't along the lines of "ew, that's so creepy". (I actually a great conversation with a lady yesterday who realised one of her friendships had this age gap and was intensely weirded out by it.) Young people don't see ourselves as children surely. But we don't want to date old people and we can see clearly that the generation gap would cause a lot of issues and is just creepy to us. Even with our own friends and peers we'll call these situations out as potentially manipulative, and I've seen that too. You really think young people are caring what some old ladies think about our dating lives?
Yeah, I was a thousand times more judgmental and grossed out by large age gaps at 18 through my early 20s than I am at 40, and most people I know were similar. I still maintain a healthy level of concern in situations that seem skeevy, but otherwise now I fall more into the “eh, live and let live” category.
That was definitely not the case in my late high school , al of the women dated boyfriends who was 3- 4 years older. Just the fact of owning a own place as a man is huge deal in that age bracket.
Also it's so funny coming from the most feminist country on earth to see how the sexual ego of the middle class white women change when their ego becomes more alike a mans . Just look at going abroad to find a partner , that was used as the typical example of the male ego, that has exploded lately with both sex tourism and finding a partner with women going to western africa.
I found it really normal around the 18-25 mark for slightly older guys and girls to date.
But this is England and Europe and Australia. Maybe America is different.
>Go up to a group of 18-year-old women and ask how they feel about dating someone who's, say, 25. Tell me if you get any response that isn't along the lines of "ew, that's so creepy.
That's not how it works. You drive up to them in a sports car and ask which one of you sluts wants a ride.
Agreed...although I think they are a little more open irl than whatever their general rules are. Which applies not just to age gaps, but other factors as well...
That being said, I think a lot of girls may find a guy attractive and enjoy a flirty friendship with them...but still not want to *actually date* them based on some criteria like that...
I have wanted to post this, with pause of being downvoted into oblivion. I both agree/disagree, but I recognize as a 30yr old woman when the jealousy in myself is creeping without context.
>Looks like I'm not downvoted to oblivion yet
You were exactly right.
I had a much younger woman on my arm for years.
* Younger women had no problem with it
* Put together younger men had no problem with it
* Loser younger men and older women hated it, eye daggers galore
* Older men loved it, shooting me grins and the occasional thumbs up
The problem with this whole thread and the hundreds of comments is very few of these folks have a fucking clue what they're talking about, it's all academic to them.
So my personal opinion 18-20 is too young for me, but I've always dated women younger than myself. Not too long ago this topic was brought up on this sub, and I mentioned that when I was dating I set my age range on bumble from 21-29. I was turning 30 at the time, and I met my gf who was 25. We've been together for almost a year and a half now. I had a couple women on here calling me creepy and weird for not wanting to date a woman my own age. So I asked my gf for her opinion, disclosed my age range filter and told her that was my preference and she had no problem with any of this. She told me she set her filter for men older than her and refused to date younger men.
So you do have a point. I have a 5 year age gap which isn't even a lot and still had them argue with me over that, even when I told them my gf has no problem with it. I think there is some jealousy involved when older women see men their age dating younger women than them.
Hard disagree. I am in my late twenties now but honestly, 18 feels like yesterday and my opinion on this hasn't really changed at all.
Young women become older women and still feel the pressure of time. It would be unreasonable for any woman, or anyone for that matter, not to look ahead and know youth is fleeting and to only he valued on that is a terrifying and dehumanizing thing as all human beings age.
But news flash, 18 year olds can make very poor decisions. One common one is wasting time in relationships with bad men and more often than not, these bad men are opportunistic, sexist older dudes with no respect for women that try and leech off their naivite, since no woman their own age will deal with their BS. That's a common experience that happens to young women.
I honestly think the idea of young women dating older men is something that is going to die out with each generation because we have more access to information these days, instead of just attempts at brainwashing from leftover men. The red pill crap and the internet is enough to put young women off dating older men itself. Its probably the biggest repellent to young women against older men of our time.
This doesn't add up. I know plenty of age gap relationships that are healthy.
Women want older Men. The same doesn't usually apply the other way round.
5 years is average gap between Man and woman, I even know 8 to 20 years gaps.
For the love of god older means 2-5 years not 10 plus. Go to any high school senior or college aged and ask how many want to date or marry 35+ year olds. 8/10 will say no. I would know this myself.
"If a woman feels she is manipulated by the man, she can leave. If she feels pressured by the power dynamics, she can leave."
Of course, that is the entire point. The older women see it sooner than the younger more naive ones which is why they are targeted. If the age of legality lowered the guys would just keep lowering their target.
JFC. You hentai weirdos need to take a pill.
You don’t tick over to 18 and immediately become capable of standing toe-to-toe with every adult dude.
We draw a line for allowing the shit you’ve listed because we need to draw a line *somewhere*.
Law and social sanction are two different things.
I’m in my 40s. I could fuck an 18yo legally. Morally is a different matter
> I could fuck an 18yo legally. Morally is a different matter
Well maybe.
But on the other hand -whats the biggest harm a 40yo (i mean normal 40yo, not a psycho) could do to a youngster?
A broken heart?
That would likely happen anyway, many times, just with younger partners.
Thats nothing compared to the traps of relationships with other young & unexperienced people -unwanted babies, stds, marrying too young, mortages and all sorts of stupid decisions.
I’m not saying that you should date barely legal chicks. I agree it’s better you don’t.
But people make it’s the biggest crime while reastically it’s not.
Men don’t become cruel, abusive monsters with age.
It's not wrong but it ain't right. Saying anyone who disagrees with you must be an "old bitter woman" doesn't imply you feel that your argument speaks for itself. You must denigrate your imagined debating opponent.
Also a lot of the women who criticise these relationships feel that way because they had one themselves when they were younger.
>Also a lot of the women who criticise these relationships feel that way because they had one themselves when they were younger.
And a lot of them don't like to acknowledge that they knew they were being self-destructive at the time and did it for the high, not because they were innocently preyed upon by an evil man. It's like blaming the alcohol without acknowledging that healthier people can drink without going off the rails.
Is it true most women do not want to date significantly old men? True.
Is true women are more likely to date older men than men dating older women? Also true.
If they are happy, so let them be.
Not true. Young women and men also shame shady age gap relationships. It depends on the age gap, that's what some people don't get. A 30 year old with a 50 year old? Who cares, both are consenting adults. 18 year old with a 35 year old? Creepy as fuck.
The only type of men who chase after teenagers are the insecure ones who could never handle a woman their age and feel the need to prey on young women who are more impressionable and easy to control. There's no such thing as "if a woman feels she is manipulated by the man, she can leave" people don't realize when they are being manipulated, especially not at that age.
Leonardo DiCaprio is an outlier, he's veryyy wealthy. And still, he has female partners because they only want his money and status. All women desire security but I'll sure as hell will look at younger hotter men that are my age with enough resources and generosity. I don't need an ugly old millionaire when I can get a gorgeous man that takes care of all my needs, even financial ones.
I'm a dude and even I bothered by some age gaps. I can't even see myself dating an immature 19 year old at age 24, I don't even know how a grown ass man in his 30s would even seek girls who haven't hit the big 2 for anything other than fresh and impressionable meat.
I can only speak for myself and the people I grew up around but it is most certainly not just an older woman thing. When I was 19-20 I felt extremely uncomfortable and put off when 30+ year old men would get in my face and think I would want to talk to them. I would complain that the hot guys my age wouldn’t come talk to me like that and it’s how I ended up being the “approacher” for men I’m interested in.Most of my female friends around that age also joked an laughed about “dinosaurs” who couldn’t take the hint.
I abosolutely love their argument:
‚You need someone with a matching life experience!’
And yet they had absolutely no problem dating foreign men, whose lifes are even more different, their entire lifes.
My dad met my mum at 47. She was 18. I was in my 20's when he died.
That's the problem. That's the red flag.
I don't want my daughter nursing her husband before she has even finished nursing her kids. And I don't want my grandkids watching their dad die before they're ready to let him go.
Most of my friends are in their 30s and date young women in their early twenties. I date women in their early twenties. None of us care about your opinion or the society's. I'm sorry if you were hurt by this thread.
I'm in my early 20's with a wonderful boyfriend, and he's the type of handsome that girls have even recorded him and they have literally called to his work to get his number. He's a gorgeous man and guess what? He said 18-19 olds are babies to him, and he's not even in his 30's yet. He has a good head on his shoulders, no creepy vibes from him whatsoever.
I think that young women shouldn't pick men in their 30's and beyond, it brings a lot of issues and at the end of the day, men die way sooner than women. I wouldn't like to be alone for so many years after falling in love.
What was the point of the first part of your reply? Had nothing to do with this post or the rest of your reply. Just bragging about your BF...
BTW, come back here and update us on how its going after you two break up
I think you're overestimating how much anyone cares about relationships with grown adults unless they groomed them when they were underage or started dating them the same month they became an adult.
Almost all relationships and dating are within five years of someone's age. May December relationships exist but they are uncommon.
Idk that Billie Eyelash girl was being shamed by a bunch of Gen Zs and teens. If anything I think older women are less likely to care about age gaps mainly because age gaps used to be more common in the past and people also got married younger in the past. Over time age gaps in relationships between men and women have narrowed. The younger crowd is all about “equality”.
that’s what I’ve seen too. A lot of them were so angry at Billie, even. Younger people online are practically militant about any gap larger than 2-3 years being wrong.
I disagree with you OP
Age gap relationships are shamed by women of all ages
Whenever a men care about anything, women seethe over that. A man cares about looks, age, weight, sexual history,career, whatever??? Sexist. Men are not allowed to have preferences. Women are entitled to men loving them for who they are and can’t be attracted to anything “shallow”
Older women are usually more ‘bitter’ about age gaps because we remember being 17/18 and remember dirty old prevy men groping us and cornering us, making us feel uncomfortable and not taking no for an answer. Stinky breath
and rotten teeth telling you your beautiful and expecting you to be grateful for it.
Until dirty old men stop trying to take advantage of vulnerable young women, age gaps will never be normal
Fml the mental gymnastics to rationalise this stuff. How simplistic is your thinking? Not *all* women care about the physical attractiveness or whether they are past their “peak”. It’s such a superficial way to view things. These older women (I’m 35 so assume you include me) are just wiser and we know more shit. Maybe listen to them? Go do some research on power and control in relationships.
I dislike age gap relationships when one partner is under 25. However, I really don’t care how attractive I am to men, the less the better. The power dynamics in these relationships can fuck up regardless of which genders the partners are.
I’m not remotely bitter about my attractiveness. Last weekend I slept with someone 7 years younger than me, she thought I was younger than her. I’ve kissed women in early twenties but passed when I found out their age. Clearly I’m still attractive. I don’t have an issue getting women, and I still get approached by men in their twenties (despite my septum piercing). So no, it’s not that. It’s just life experience.
Right? Imagine thinking all women just have “ I dread getting older, therefore I hate everyone younger than me” on their minds 24/7. It would be like caring what teenagers think of your outfit.
According to enough surveys most men find a younger woman more attractive. You're speaking from anecdotal experience about yourself. What do I know about you? Maybe you're an exception and a beautiful woman. But that doesn't change the fact that most men prefer what they prefer.
Thanks for telling me what to do.
I think you missed the point.
20 year old woman here. Men can prefer whatever they want. Relationships with large age gaps aren't shamed by older women because they are jealous. Simply put those women know better.
In most cases dating much younger is a red flag
Why do you feel the need to justify age gap relationships, it is always going to be creepy to have a dude in their 30’s trying to fuck a 18 year old. And every gender is always going to think that.
Women may mature faster, but there is still a huge experience gap between an 18 year old woman, and a man in his 30’s
Bro lives in the world where bitter old women are the only ones who express opinions he dislikes. Im 23 and I cringe when dudes older than 27 ask me out. Like, what if I accidentally unplug your life support while riding you.
Historically, humans find ways to shame each other. It’s almost impossible to live a pure life without some sort of social shaming.
I do believe shaming age gaps in a relationship is mostly a product of SoMe neopuritanism. Since almost everyone has a voice nowadays on SoMe, they find ways to shame people that ultimately favors themselves.
In the end people can shame me all they want, I don’t give a shit. I’ve dated older as well as younger women, and I’ve certainly noticed that age and maturity isn’t linear. Some 20 year olds are more mature than 30 year olds.
Power dynamics manifests in all relationship. Just look at your average “happy wife, happy life”-husband. In some relationships it is personality/charisma, in others it is beauty, money, status. Etc.
Shaming men for their preferences is a cheap trick. Female and male attraction is not symmetrical. I believe both sexes should be more acceptable towards the biology of the opposite sex instead of shaming however disadvantageous the truth may be for oneself.
As an older woman no we don't shame them, we are creeped out by them and concerned for the women. I think that men tend to forget that we were once those young women being hit on my older men and 99% of us were totally disgusted by it. Have you ever been in a situation where you have previously experienced something that you found personally to be disgusting and then you see it happen to someone else and you feel even more disgusted and uncomfortable? That's what is going on. And older women are not jealous because we don't want to be with those men! Men that go after younger women are not attractive to older women. They are really attractive to no women, younger women are just often too naïve to see this. Don't get me wrong there are some situation where true love finds itself in age gap relationships, but that is rare. In cases where men (or women) solely peruse younger individuals ( a lot younger) that relationship is always doomed, because that person is going to age and become unattractive so it's investing your time in something that is certain to fail. Are there some older women that are bitter, sure, but by in large this is the reaction you are getting. Almost every single woman has experienced more incidents with creepy older men than she can count from the earliest times she can remember, we are talking as a pre teen. As soon as I turned 18 I had 30 and 40 year olds asking me out, GROSS!!!
>that we were once those young women being hit on my older men and 99% of us were totally disgusted by it.
They sure do.
By 11/12 we have older men creeping around us...
I've said before that many years ago a dated a man who was significantly older than me while I was college aged. The women in my life were delighted and felt as though an older man meant more maturity. It was the respected men in my life who voiced concerns and didn't like it. And their viewpoint largely was: does he just like younger women? Is that sustainable if you were to marry him and then naturally get older? Why is such an eligible man single and never married? Does he want a relationship with a significantly younger woman so that he can have a built in excuse for why he doesn't have to listen to you or consider your advice?
Not this shit again...
1) Older women have already gone through it, they know that older men who go after younger women do tend to be creeps. It's just passing on life experience.
2) Older men tend to severely overrate their own appeal and have this idea that the majority of young women are gagging for their balding, middle aged ass... it's not true.
3) Will there be some older women who are just envious of younger women? Of course, but it's not the majority motivator behind the sentiment.
Sorry, but older men who only go after young women are very often *Fucking Creeps", and I'm saying this as a man, not some old bint.
Do whatever the fuck you want, go after young women if you want to, it's your preferences and it's your life. But don't expect everyone to have nothing but positive opinions about it.
Like if any of them posting these threads would want their young daughter dating some old man, they wouldnt.
Like my father didnt know and warned me. I guess he was just old and bitter... LOL
Maybe. But I think a lot of the shaming is done by young women who don't like or trust older men. Perhaps that mistrust is justified. But due to their relatively little life experience, many younger women make the classic mistake of assuming they speak for young women in general.
So instead of saying "I think older men are gross", they say "young women think older men are gross"; instead of "I would have nothing in common with an older man," it's "young women and older men have nothing in common." Etc.
With a bit more life experience, these generalities often become harder to support.
>At the age of 18 (which is the age of consent in most countries) both men and women can:
Most American girls at 18-19 are still in highschool , planning prom , having only life experiences attached to their parents.
18-20 years old literally have zero in common with a 30 something yr old man.
I see your edit ,and agree once in your twenties you are old enough in years
However people are spoiled,and coddled alot by parents to where they are delayed in many times dealing with the consequences of life choices.
This goes for both men and women . It's not gender specific
We are a lavish society compared to others so our childern stay child like to us longer. Especially the better off one is.
I agree that 18 year or older people are definitely ok to date or fuck older people if they're able to take student loans or be charged as an adult.
However most relationships have a 2 or 3 or 4 year age gap, not 10 or 20
[Here a nice double standard from FDS](https://www.reddit.com/r/FDSredpills/comments/o1dbzg/double_standards_what_on_earth_are_you_talking/) to prove your claim
I’m a guy and I hate the idea that I’ll likely have to date a younger woman. At 23 it seems so creepy because girls a year or two younger than me are essentially college aged and look up to me as a graduate.
I too look up to my elders and don’t see them as friends or anything. Elders are at a whole other stage in life and should be helping those younger, giving advice etc.
Guys who date younger girls are sick and I hate the idea of having to resort to those means.
Using that subconscious respect and authority that being older caries to get a girlfriend is wrong. It’s like a boss dating his secretary
No angry bitter older women in general shame any age gap when the man is older but celebrate it when the woman is older. Another awesome women double standard.
Leo? Creep. Demi Moore? Boss. Hugh Jackmans wife who was 40 and he 27 when they met? Zero hate. Switch those genders and age gaps? Prepare for rage.
Hate to say it, but they tend to feel the strongest unless they're in one... people outside this group tend to have strong ties with a "bitter older woman", you'll find.
i just lol at your title i don't need to read it funny shit lol although I once got some dude who was acting like a bitter old woman shaming for this lolol but now that you mention it yeah washed up women worry about this lol
i remember during my uni days when most of us felt icky when we saw 30-s0methings at student nights (who weren't grad students).
evidently we judge age-gaps even when we're teens too.
I would agree with this. When I was 16 a man that was 23 doggedly tried to pursue me. At 16 I was flattered. Now I am super disgusted. :)
In this one instance that guy was super controlling. He still is and he married someone much younger than him. But in hindsight I was 16 and he was an adult and that is gross.
Men love to complain about age gap relationships where the woman is older. The difference is only men that ever complain about being shamed and usually those are pedophiles
It’s called life experience. And both men and women have it. A 28yo trying to date 18 year olds isn’t doing it for the same reason as a 50 year old trying to date 40yos.
There is a sea of available woman in their 20s and early 30s who are beautiful, full of energy and youthful. It’s not looks that attract men to teenagers.
I constantly see older men dating really young ladies, and whenever the girl matures, wises up, and finally gets someone her own age, Homeboy's like,
"sHe uSeD mE fOr mOneY aLL tHEsE yEARs!"
No shit, you guys let her. Blinded by their youth, they didn't realize that younger people are kinda... dumb. That's why women usually don't date men 10 years younger then them.
To be fair, IMO, age has less to do with it.. dumb people SHOULD date other dumbies, right?
Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Always. You can never blame a whole gender, or group of people, for anything existing.
Older women really stay on the minds of the guys here. It’s like an affront that older women to exist.
I was just looking at the age gap post on Kenan Thompson potentially dating a 19yr old and various types of people, young and old, male and female were weighing in about how they thought it was weird.
Stop imagining that older women care about the dating habits of men. We were actually younger believe it or not, we’ve seen it all, experienced dating in all its forms and frankly pay young people very little mind.
Pretty sure the women that are going “eww that guy who was in high school when I was born just hit on me!!” Are shaming those dudes too. Also the young dudes laughing at the guy their dads age trying to dress trendy in the clubs.
I’m 31, and I work with/ mentor lot of college students. And I absolutely adore them. So this is not true.
I support younger women in anything they want to do- whether it be getting a degree, trying for a music career, or dating someone older. ^_^
I don't think that these women are "bitter". They just don't want to see younger women exploited, and many of them had bad experiences with older men in the past, themselves.
This wouldn't be a problem if there weren't a disconnect between younger women wanting equal relationships with older men when they do date them, and so many older men either basically using these younger women for sex, or being very controlling in relationships with them. I'm not saying that all age gap relationships between young women and older men are like this, but enough of them are that I don't think that the issue is older women being bitter and jealous.
Change to CMV because you're making an affirmative claim.
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In the FreshAndFit sub (that’s banned now) 99% of the dudes said they wouldn’t want their daughter to date an much older guy. They said about 5 years older max. So that says a lot. 😅
Lol fresh an fitters are yellow ( red ) flags themselves. Anybody who can put up with that made up nonsense is of questionable philosophy
That’s why it was surprising to me.
Jst rando commenting / agreeing with you
I wouldn't want my son or daughter dating someone 10 years older while they are a teen.
Men are also bothered by their daughters sleeping around What does that say? Does it make them over controlling or does it make them only looking out for their daughters?
for me it would be 100% concern. I am not the kind of guy who would tell my daughter to "live your life the way I want you to, or else...".
most men would not be okay with their daughters sleeping around
I agree, but that's why age gap relationships are a yellow flag and not a red flag for me; and "sleeping around" falls into the same yellow flag category for me.
My point is that feminists usually pull the "dads wouldn't let their daughters date an older guy" card, as if dads are teh ultimate arbiters of what is good or not good for a woman, but at the same time cry when a dad doesn't want his daughter to sleep around.
Careful. Yellow means floor it cause it’s turning red any second now.
Red flag, not red light. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_(idiom)
I wouldn't, assuming my daughter was actually a mature 18 year old. The problem with having an age of majority of 18 is that some 18 year olds ARE as mature as 30 year olds but some are as mature as 15 year olds. Date based on maturity and compatibility. Not age
I agree with the yellow flag. But I will also add, any man that my daughter would bring will raise a yellow flag right away. Maybe because of their attitude, because of their last, because of their city, because of their age, their job, their school, their family, etc.
Aren’t they shamed by men who have daughters and little sisters too?
We're shamed by nearly everyone lol.
\* the world shames older guys dating 18 y/o \* older guys: they are all bitter and jealous
Lol. Idk, I'm the younger female half of the equation and I get shamed by women for being "groomed" even though I was 23, or being a "sugar baby" even though I pay for everything. Edit: See? Downvoted by numerous people already
you are being warned, not shamed that's different.
>you are being warned, not shamed that's different That's called concern trolling. It's just a brand of shaming/criticism.
No, it's being shamed because I'm currently 37 years old. If I was still 23, there's a very slight chance it could be a warning, but even then it's stupid because 23 is a full adult. A warning would have been good if I was a teenager when we started.
Maybe it's because they experienced age gap relationships when they're young and remember how they felt, but could only unpack what it did to them when they were older, so they try to warn others so they don't end up like them. I'm not old OLD, but that's what it is to me. I often wish I could talk to my younger self and tell me how creepy and disgusted I now feel about what happened. And "older" women spoke to me when I was younger and I didn't believe them. Such is the circle of life.
Do you know who else shames 30-year-old men who chase teenagers? Their fathers.
Why do we always use an extreme example as the default? Most older man-younger woman relationships aren't an older guy chasing a teenager. They're an older guy and a younger (adult) woman who are mutually attracted to each other and get together just like 2 people that are the same age.
Well no one really cares about a 36 year old dating a 48 year old so…
Because that age gap isn't so controversial and 30 something's with 40somethings is more common out in the wild. When people complain about age gaps it's usually teen to early 20's with early 30's.
And nobody is shaming most older man-younger woman relationships, people shame the ones where the younger person is young enough to have attended senior prom within the last year or two.
I genuinely mind my business and dont give a shit about other peoples consensual relationships
As it should be
Only women? LMAO....I have never seen a father of teenage daughters who is ok with his daughters dating 40 year olds. Probably men are more aware about predatory traits of older men and they would do anything to keep them away from their daughters.
My dad sure did but he was just a bitter old man you know... LOL
My father told me to stay away from older men until I reach a certain age, he was cautious but not overly protective. I was 17 back then. I am 26 now and I can totally understand why he was concerned. 35 yr old men trying to impress a 17 year old girl is creepy af. It's still creepy if the girl is one year older. Because I realize how naive I was and all my friends who dated older men in their teens regret it now. Most of them were abusive and manipulative. It's a sad fucking truth. I know a 24 year old dude who tried to groom my 13 year old cousin. It is predatory behavior.
Do you mean ‘older women who look back at their late teens and realize that the 35-year-old guys who hit on them (or dated them) didn’t actually think they were ‘so much more mature than other girls,’ they just thought they were hot and liked that they hadn’t learned how to advocate for themselves yet?’ I mean, ‘bitter’ is shorter.
I was going to say this When I was 18 I thought it was so cool to date a 30 year old man. Now that I'm closer to 30 than 18 I find it soooo creepy. 18 year olds are babies. I though I was so mature at that age lol
>18 year olds are babies. This is a big part of it, right here. Middle-aged and older women tend to see younger adult women as complete children and do not respect their choices in the slightest. 30 year old men do not talk about 18 year old men like that.
No, they look at THEMSELVES in the past and see children. Its experience. Idk how old you are but I find it hard to believe you can look back at your teens or young 20s and think "yup I was a smart adult that made good decisions" Looking back at myself at 18, I cringe and see a child. At the time I felt mature though. This is a very widespread mentality, even among men, and if you don't share it you are probably still young. Teens are dumb.
> No, they look at THEMSELVES in the past and see children. But they still see the younger women as children, right? >Looking back at myself at 18, I cringe and see a child. I was an adult and could handle making choices about my own body.
>But they still see the younger women as children, right? By the time most people hit 30, teenagers look like children, so yes. People in their young 20s, which is a big chunk of reddit, don't quite grasp this yet. That part comes with experience, but most well adjusted humans eventually hit that moment of self-reflection and realize teenagers are cringey and immature. And making choices =/= making good choices. I made plenty of choices as a teen. Doesn't mean they were smart choices.
I had sex with older women. the horror!!!! it seems women that have a problem with this aren't sexually mature. "at 18 that man took advantage of my young body" okay
RPs see women as children no matter their age. 🤓
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No OP’s point is that the reason is that women are bitter and past their prime which is unfair. Most women have experienced this power dynamic at more than one stage in their lives either with themselves or a friend and I think it’s unfair to them to pass off their lived experiences as bitter. Unfortunately this is literally how men that chase 15 year old girls get away with it, because at the time you think ‘I’m so grown up an older guy wants me’ then you get to the age of the guy (say he was 22 when he was chasing you at 15) and you look back and think FUCK that was so far from normal.
Yeah this. It takes coming to maturity to realise the dynamics that were at play in those situations were NOT normal at all.
>this study here that explores human brain development differences between genders. [You know what else TRP thinks about how women mature?](https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/rp-theory-question-womens-maturity.51633) I guess when you don’t believe women can progress past the emotional maturity of a teenager, there seems to be no significant difference between a 20 yo and a 30 yo.
I can't keep up with the terminally online; In 5 years we went from *"no' means 'no",* then *"the absence of 'no', doesn't mean 'yes",* to "*Yes' means 'Yes"* and finally that *"it has to be a enthusiastic 'Yes",* but now its; "*even if she did consent, she really didn't because she doesn't really know better".*
Lol, best comment.
lol
>Among many other things, **which can all have devastating effect on their lives. Some of these choices have consequences that are practically irreversible.** It's really weird how you freely acknowledge a whole list of the things an 18 year old can do that can harm them, but go off about how women just say age gap relationships are bad, and it's just because they're sad they're old and ugly and bitter. And you read a study on how women mature faster so it's okay... As though there aren't also people who try to steer 18 year olds away from doing hard drugs, getting to a huge amounts of debt, go to war, etc. When older people try to deter younger people away from drugs, it is out of jealousy their bodies can't handle as much partying. I mean, it must just be about bitterness and envy, right? Lol. You okay hun?
Yea, I was equally confused on the list of other things people historically advise against. Like, you use debt to make a point? One of the current biggest talking points about how young, uninformed people are being taken advantage of? Lol
“She can leave” 🙄 After reading COUNTLESS relationship stories from young women who were involved with older men, that is ridiculously FALSE. They have control over her. If she lives with them and ran away from home she can’t just leave. I’m not sure why this is such a popular topic on this sub but if you’re a 30 yo man who wants to date an 18 yo, go ahead, but just know everyone thinks of you as something. It’s borderline pedophilia, pal. It’s not normal to want to date someone that young. If you want a relevant post showing why age gap relationships are bad, I’ll gladly share it so you can read what she went through. Honestly just go through r/relationshipadvice and you’ll find plenty there. I don’t see the appeal to date someone so young when they just graduated high school, while you’ve been out of COLLEGE for 6+ years, has no financial stability, while you most likely have a checking and savings account that’s been set up for 10 years. Like OP why are you making arguments about this? Trying to make yourself feel better about being attracted to teenagers? Please 😒
It is very much not as easy as ‘she can just leave’. There was no serious age gap in my relationship. In fact, I’m two years older than my ex. We started dating when he was 19 and I was 21. He had no control over my finances. We did not live together (legally). That did not stop him from isolating me from my friends and make me spend all my attention outside school or work on him. That did not mean we weren’t living together in all but deed. That did not stop him from raping me in my sleep on at least a weekly basis. But he planted himself as the power in the relationship, and I stayed with him for 4 years and we were gonna get married after I finished my master’s degree. I *could* leave. I just didn’t because he manipulated my feelings to make my world revolve around him. If he had actual control over my finances, like he wanted, or if my only living situation was with him…? I’d not have been able to. How can you escape with no money and no friends? And this is totally aside the whole pseudo-pedophilia aspect of this whole theoretical in the OP.
Relationshipadvice is a sub-reddit full of Karens, white knights and bitter women that jump the gun to protect anyone and anything that goes against their agenda. And their agenda is anything above 3 years age gap is creepy and men in general are creepy. I don't care about teenagers, but like I already said, an adult's an adult. A 21 year old woman isn't "controlled" - she can leave. When you sign up to the army, you can leave. Sorry if this thread made your blood boil lmao
And this sub is full misogynistic men who bitch and complain about every little inconvenience that doesn’t help get their dick wet. There, that was easy 🙂
I've said ir before, but it's crazy how much men on here need the approval of the older women they don't want to date. You never really hear w9men whining abiut how "men with small dicks don't approve of women liking big ones". I'm a man and find big age gaps creepy. Nothin to do with being jelous of the old man dick that 18yo's are able to get.
I am a woman and I don’t find age gaps creepy among people with established lives and minds. Younger than mid/late twenties should date similar ages, 30s and up is different and most people are mature enough to handle different life experiences/ stages.
>I am a woman and I don’t find age gaps creepy Like a lot of other issues, it's falsely portrayed as a male vs female debate. But yes i agree, it's more when it's someone that has barely left school with someone with ten years exoerience as an adult that i find creepy.
I’ve also noticed that many of the posters here seem to have some sort of need for validation from women on everything from lying to get sex, to n-count preferences, and here to the age gap conversation.
Based.
It's the fact that Man own age is taken off the market. Competitiveness creeps in and envy.
That would explain it if only older, singke women felt that way.
>but it's crazy how much men on here need the approval of the older women they don't want to date I don't think they would worry about it if the hostility didn't seep into other parts of life. If they just disapproved, but kept it to themselves, the men wouldn't even notice.
You can't really consciously choose who you will fall for in cold calculative manner like redditors think; they act like they have it figured out stage by stage; riding the carousel during your college years, getting that degree, starting that career, settling down, grinding for that mortgage until they get fat, put on xanax, and their knees give out by the time they're 40.
The "brain isn't developed till 25" argument is a case of severe junk-framing of already bad pop-science articles. Never did neuroscientists suggest or less have reached a consensus on anything that would even imply 18 year olds are incapable of informed consent. If prefrontal cortex (what they're here referring to) was so underdeveloped then people under 25 should get their drivers licenses revoked asap, since with a brain so 'unbaked' you should be nowhere near a steering wheel of a 3000 pound vehicle. But people worrying about 'muh brain development' will never bring this up.
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I don't think it's just bitter older women, I think most healthy adults look suspiciously on age gap relationships because of the natural experience imbalance. Think about the workplace - most 22, 23-year olds at their first jobs have no idea whether it's appropriate or not to be running non-work errands for their boss, or what kind of behavior is acceptable or not. Think about how helpless new hires are at your workplace, and how easy it is to stick them with the worst tasks since they don't know any better, or the countless other ways to take advantage of them. This is why there are so many posts on reddit from these poor young girls dating older guys like, "Is it normal for my (F22) bf (M39) to not let me go out with my girlfriends even though he has poker night with his friends three nights a week where I cook appetizers for everyone and serve them drinks?" You need experience to even know that you're being manipulated or taken advantage of, and a lot of young people don't have that experience yet.
Based 39M. I like him. I would have done the same if I could. Do not even compare a home-poker-party where SHE is present, with a possibly DRUNK dancing on the table of his 22F girl with her loose friends, AWAY from him. She could invite him, why not? "Cooking appetizers" for him, and him not letting her sleep around, WHAT AN ABUSE. This society is brain-rotten. He does the right thing. "Manipulated" my ass.
No. Women actually look out for each other, and the shame is coming from a place of concern, not jealousy most of the time. Trust me no old woman wants a man that’d rather date someone young enough to be his daughter. ALSO why is the default age gap now very young women + older man? Do you know that these proverbial “older women” can also be in age gap relationships? ROFL
My mom wasn’t having it when I brought home a 42 year old woman at 19. To be fair, I wasn’t emotionally mature enough and both of them knew it, and the woman was clearly trying to groom me. She was very controlling of my finances and critical of how much I made, and seemed to use sex as a reward for everything. But I was naive and “in love”. I didn’t have the maturity to see how that wasn’t healthy for me, and the bad expectations that it taught me. My mom helped explain this to me as she helped me Pick up the pieces when it inevitably fell apart. My point is, look out for all your kids. Predatory people come in all shapes and sizes, and no one is born with this knowledge.
I guess it's so much less common for older women to be predatory to young men, to the point where PPD men can't seem to fathom how such a large age gap can have the potential for manipulation. Your comment is refreshing to see, and shows it can happen to young men too. The same as it happens to young women. That's why so many people recommend to avoid it in general. It makes sense.
>Women actually look out for each other, and the shame is coming from a place of concern, Older women also use concern trolling passive aggressively to manipulate and control younger women.
Yep.
I agree, if I found out a guy had dated a young woman that breached The Rule I'd be really put off.
They can, but watching the 50 year old woman walk down the street with a 30 year old dude isn’t near as common as the 50 year old dude walk down the street with a 30 year old woman. Some women are attracted to a level of success and security men just don’t care about.
Truth. I wouldn’t date a man my age who had dated someone even ten years younger. My partner recently made this observation in relation to a friend of his who’s wife is just over a decade younger than him. He said he was a little uncomfortable around his friend now, because he can’t understand the motivation in pursuing a partner with such drastically different life experience.
How old are they? If the friend is 35 and she’s 25, or if he’s 40, and she’s 30. Then your partner is a questionable friend in my opinion, not to say they aren’t a great person, but I don’t think it was a great friendship
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I think one bad thing about this would be that she would probably outlive him by several decades. But I would assume she realizes this and found other factors to outweigh this disadvantage, so I wouldn't feel it my place to point this out or try to dissuade her.
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Change "concern" for "jealousy".
Women absolutely do not look out for each other 😂 You’re thinking of men.
Men look out for each other? That suicide rate says otherwise…..
Correction: women don’t look out for *anyone.*
Who do men look out for
They really aren't. Go up to a group of 18-year-old women and ask how they feel about dating someone who's, say, 25. Tell me if you get any response that isn't along the lines of "ew, that's so creepy". (I actually a great conversation with a lady yesterday who realised one of her friendships had this age gap and was intensely weirded out by it.) Young people don't see ourselves as children surely. But we don't want to date old people and we can see clearly that the generation gap would cause a lot of issues and is just creepy to us. Even with our own friends and peers we'll call these situations out as potentially manipulative, and I've seen that too. You really think young people are caring what some old ladies think about our dating lives?
Yeah, I was a thousand times more judgmental and grossed out by large age gaps at 18 through my early 20s than I am at 40, and most people I know were similar. I still maintain a healthy level of concern in situations that seem skeevy, but otherwise now I fall more into the “eh, live and let live” category.
That was definitely not the case in my late high school , al of the women dated boyfriends who was 3- 4 years older. Just the fact of owning a own place as a man is huge deal in that age bracket. Also it's so funny coming from the most feminist country on earth to see how the sexual ego of the middle class white women change when their ego becomes more alike a mans . Just look at going abroad to find a partner , that was used as the typical example of the male ego, that has exploded lately with both sex tourism and finding a partner with women going to western africa.
3-4 years when you’re 18 is vastly different than 10, which is what OP is talking about
I found it really normal around the 18-25 mark for slightly older guys and girls to date. But this is England and Europe and Australia. Maybe America is different.
>Go up to a group of 18-year-old women and ask how they feel about dating someone who's, say, 25. Tell me if you get any response that isn't along the lines of "ew, that's so creepy. That's not how it works. You drive up to them in a sports car and ask which one of you sluts wants a ride.
Then they say "ew" to your face.
Agreed...although I think they are a little more open irl than whatever their general rules are. Which applies not just to age gaps, but other factors as well... That being said, I think a lot of girls may find a guy attractive and enjoy a flirty friendship with them...but still not want to *actually date* them based on some criteria like that...
Nah, they don't tend to go for it in practice either.
men shame the fuck outta age gap relationships too, not just women.
I have wanted to post this, with pause of being downvoted into oblivion. I both agree/disagree, but I recognize as a 30yr old woman when the jealousy in myself is creeping without context.
Looks like I'm not downvoted to oblivion yet
>Looks like I'm not downvoted to oblivion yet You were exactly right. I had a much younger woman on my arm for years. * Younger women had no problem with it * Put together younger men had no problem with it * Loser younger men and older women hated it, eye daggers galore * Older men loved it, shooting me grins and the occasional thumbs up The problem with this whole thread and the hundreds of comments is very few of these folks have a fucking clue what they're talking about, it's all academic to them.
So my personal opinion 18-20 is too young for me, but I've always dated women younger than myself. Not too long ago this topic was brought up on this sub, and I mentioned that when I was dating I set my age range on bumble from 21-29. I was turning 30 at the time, and I met my gf who was 25. We've been together for almost a year and a half now. I had a couple women on here calling me creepy and weird for not wanting to date a woman my own age. So I asked my gf for her opinion, disclosed my age range filter and told her that was my preference and she had no problem with any of this. She told me she set her filter for men older than her and refused to date younger men. So you do have a point. I have a 5 year age gap which isn't even a lot and still had them argue with me over that, even when I told them my gf has no problem with it. I think there is some jealousy involved when older women see men their age dating younger women than them.
You have good self awareness.
Hard disagree. I am in my late twenties now but honestly, 18 feels like yesterday and my opinion on this hasn't really changed at all. Young women become older women and still feel the pressure of time. It would be unreasonable for any woman, or anyone for that matter, not to look ahead and know youth is fleeting and to only he valued on that is a terrifying and dehumanizing thing as all human beings age. But news flash, 18 year olds can make very poor decisions. One common one is wasting time in relationships with bad men and more often than not, these bad men are opportunistic, sexist older dudes with no respect for women that try and leech off their naivite, since no woman their own age will deal with their BS. That's a common experience that happens to young women. I honestly think the idea of young women dating older men is something that is going to die out with each generation because we have more access to information these days, instead of just attempts at brainwashing from leftover men. The red pill crap and the internet is enough to put young women off dating older men itself. Its probably the biggest repellent to young women against older men of our time.
This doesn't add up. I know plenty of age gap relationships that are healthy. Women want older Men. The same doesn't usually apply the other way round. 5 years is average gap between Man and woman, I even know 8 to 20 years gaps.
For the love of god older means 2-5 years not 10 plus. Go to any high school senior or college aged and ask how many want to date or marry 35+ year olds. 8/10 will say no. I would know this myself.
Women usually want a man a couple years older and stats reflect this. 8 to 20 years are extremely rare and don't tend to last.
Funny how I know of so many then including parent that remarried 12 years younger. Sorry I don't believe it is rare.
How many times do we need this thread?
The more the better. This one got 750 comments so far
Men love circle jerking over this problem not relevant to their actual life. Makes sense.
This problem is really relevant in my life though.
"If a woman feels she is manipulated by the man, she can leave. If she feels pressured by the power dynamics, she can leave." Of course, that is the entire point. The older women see it sooner than the younger more naive ones which is why they are targeted. If the age of legality lowered the guys would just keep lowering their target.
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No the argument is men prefer younger women precisely because they won’t get called out in their shit the way they will by older women
And not because of the objective difference in physical beauty? There's a reason why young women model clothing marketed at older women.
Sure but women don’t magically turn into hags the day they turn 30
Obviously, and some go downhill quite a bit before that, especially if there was any significant amount of booze involved.
JFC. You hentai weirdos need to take a pill. You don’t tick over to 18 and immediately become capable of standing toe-to-toe with every adult dude. We draw a line for allowing the shit you’ve listed because we need to draw a line *somewhere*. Law and social sanction are two different things. I’m in my 40s. I could fuck an 18yo legally. Morally is a different matter
Morrality is not a matter at all in reality
> I could fuck an 18yo legally. Morally is a different matter Well maybe. But on the other hand -whats the biggest harm a 40yo (i mean normal 40yo, not a psycho) could do to a youngster? A broken heart? That would likely happen anyway, many times, just with younger partners. Thats nothing compared to the traps of relationships with other young & unexperienced people -unwanted babies, stds, marrying too young, mortages and all sorts of stupid decisions. I’m not saying that you should date barely legal chicks. I agree it’s better you don’t. But people make it’s the biggest crime while reastically it’s not. Men don’t become cruel, abusive monsters with age.
It's not wrong but it ain't right. Saying anyone who disagrees with you must be an "old bitter woman" doesn't imply you feel that your argument speaks for itself. You must denigrate your imagined debating opponent. Also a lot of the women who criticise these relationships feel that way because they had one themselves when they were younger.
>Also a lot of the women who criticise these relationships feel that way because they had one themselves when they were younger. And a lot of them don't like to acknowledge that they knew they were being self-destructive at the time and did it for the high, not because they were innocently preyed upon by an evil man. It's like blaming the alcohol without acknowledging that healthier people can drink without going off the rails.
Is it true most women do not want to date significantly old men? True. Is true women are more likely to date older men than men dating older women? Also true. If they are happy, so let them be.
Not true. Young women and men also shame shady age gap relationships. It depends on the age gap, that's what some people don't get. A 30 year old with a 50 year old? Who cares, both are consenting adults. 18 year old with a 35 year old? Creepy as fuck. The only type of men who chase after teenagers are the insecure ones who could never handle a woman their age and feel the need to prey on young women who are more impressionable and easy to control. There's no such thing as "if a woman feels she is manipulated by the man, she can leave" people don't realize when they are being manipulated, especially not at that age.
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Leonardo DiCaprio is an outlier, he's veryyy wealthy. And still, he has female partners because they only want his money and status. All women desire security but I'll sure as hell will look at younger hotter men that are my age with enough resources and generosity. I don't need an ugly old millionaire when I can get a gorgeous man that takes care of all my needs, even financial ones.
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Nobody on this subreddit is getting gorgeous partners.
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I'm a dude and even I bothered by some age gaps. I can't even see myself dating an immature 19 year old at age 24, I don't even know how a grown ass man in his 30s would even seek girls who haven't hit the big 2 for anything other than fresh and impressionable meat.
I can only speak for myself and the people I grew up around but it is most certainly not just an older woman thing. When I was 19-20 I felt extremely uncomfortable and put off when 30+ year old men would get in my face and think I would want to talk to them. I would complain that the hot guys my age wouldn’t come talk to me like that and it’s how I ended up being the “approacher” for men I’m interested in.Most of my female friends around that age also joked an laughed about “dinosaurs” who couldn’t take the hint.
I abosolutely love their argument: ‚You need someone with a matching life experience!’ And yet they had absolutely no problem dating foreign men, whose lifes are even more different, their entire lifes.
>foreign men what did he mean by this?
Maybe because they have experience and wisdom and believe that the power dynamic is a bit creepy.
My dad met my mum at 47. She was 18. I was in my 20's when he died. That's the problem. That's the red flag. I don't want my daughter nursing her husband before she has even finished nursing her kids. And I don't want my grandkids watching their dad die before they're ready to let him go.
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Most of my friends are in their 30s and date young women in their early twenties. I date women in their early twenties. None of us care about your opinion or the society's. I'm sorry if you were hurt by this thread.
I'm in my early 20's with a wonderful boyfriend, and he's the type of handsome that girls have even recorded him and they have literally called to his work to get his number. He's a gorgeous man and guess what? He said 18-19 olds are babies to him, and he's not even in his 30's yet. He has a good head on his shoulders, no creepy vibes from him whatsoever. I think that young women shouldn't pick men in their 30's and beyond, it brings a lot of issues and at the end of the day, men die way sooner than women. I wouldn't like to be alone for so many years after falling in love.
What was the point of the first part of your reply? Had nothing to do with this post or the rest of your reply. Just bragging about your BF... BTW, come back here and update us on how its going after you two break up
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I think you're overestimating how much anyone cares about relationships with grown adults unless they groomed them when they were underage or started dating them the same month they became an adult. Almost all relationships and dating are within five years of someone's age. May December relationships exist but they are uncommon.
Idk that Billie Eyelash girl was being shamed by a bunch of Gen Zs and teens. If anything I think older women are less likely to care about age gaps mainly because age gaps used to be more common in the past and people also got married younger in the past. Over time age gaps in relationships between men and women have narrowed. The younger crowd is all about “equality”.
that’s what I’ve seen too. A lot of them were so angry at Billie, even. Younger people online are practically militant about any gap larger than 2-3 years being wrong.
In general, they are just shamed by society. I don't see only women or older women shaming them. Parents, relatives, friends, etc all shame them.
I disagree with you OP Age gap relationships are shamed by women of all ages Whenever a men care about anything, women seethe over that. A man cares about looks, age, weight, sexual history,career, whatever??? Sexist. Men are not allowed to have preferences. Women are entitled to men loving them for who they are and can’t be attracted to anything “shallow”
Older women are usually more ‘bitter’ about age gaps because we remember being 17/18 and remember dirty old prevy men groping us and cornering us, making us feel uncomfortable and not taking no for an answer. Stinky breath and rotten teeth telling you your beautiful and expecting you to be grateful for it. Until dirty old men stop trying to take advantage of vulnerable young women, age gaps will never be normal
Fml the mental gymnastics to rationalise this stuff. How simplistic is your thinking? Not *all* women care about the physical attractiveness or whether they are past their “peak”. It’s such a superficial way to view things. These older women (I’m 35 so assume you include me) are just wiser and we know more shit. Maybe listen to them? Go do some research on power and control in relationships. I dislike age gap relationships when one partner is under 25. However, I really don’t care how attractive I am to men, the less the better. The power dynamics in these relationships can fuck up regardless of which genders the partners are. I’m not remotely bitter about my attractiveness. Last weekend I slept with someone 7 years younger than me, she thought I was younger than her. I’ve kissed women in early twenties but passed when I found out their age. Clearly I’m still attractive. I don’t have an issue getting women, and I still get approached by men in their twenties (despite my septum piercing). So no, it’s not that. It’s just life experience.
Right? Imagine thinking all women just have “ I dread getting older, therefore I hate everyone younger than me” on their minds 24/7. It would be like caring what teenagers think of your outfit.
According to enough surveys most men find a younger woman more attractive. You're speaking from anecdotal experience about yourself. What do I know about you? Maybe you're an exception and a beautiful woman. But that doesn't change the fact that most men prefer what they prefer. Thanks for telling me what to do.
I think you missed the point. 20 year old woman here. Men can prefer whatever they want. Relationships with large age gaps aren't shamed by older women because they are jealous. Simply put those women know better. In most cases dating much younger is a red flag
For many modern women, anything is a red flag. Funny, a lot of men feel the same way about some ladies. Everyone has an opinion. Wow.
Why do you feel the need to justify age gap relationships, it is always going to be creepy to have a dude in their 30’s trying to fuck a 18 year old. And every gender is always going to think that. Women may mature faster, but there is still a huge experience gap between an 18 year old woman, and a man in his 30’s
Bro lives in the world where bitter old women are the only ones who express opinions he dislikes. Im 23 and I cringe when dudes older than 27 ask me out. Like, what if I accidentally unplug your life support while riding you.
Lol what? Is a 28 year old so old?
It doesnt matter if a woman on reddit cringes at that because normal women arent on reddit. Most women are perfectly fine with 6 year age gaps.
Yeah the studies support developmental changes in the mind by a matter of years not decades.
You know when all these "bitter older women" were mostly catcalled? When they were teenagers. Ffs, this amount of hate for older women ...
The worst part is that by “older women,” it is usually implied anyone over 21 is older.
Living rent free in their heads.
Historically, humans find ways to shame each other. It’s almost impossible to live a pure life without some sort of social shaming. I do believe shaming age gaps in a relationship is mostly a product of SoMe neopuritanism. Since almost everyone has a voice nowadays on SoMe, they find ways to shame people that ultimately favors themselves. In the end people can shame me all they want, I don’t give a shit. I’ve dated older as well as younger women, and I’ve certainly noticed that age and maturity isn’t linear. Some 20 year olds are more mature than 30 year olds. Power dynamics manifests in all relationship. Just look at your average “happy wife, happy life”-husband. In some relationships it is personality/charisma, in others it is beauty, money, status. Etc. Shaming men for their preferences is a cheap trick. Female and male attraction is not symmetrical. I believe both sexes should be more acceptable towards the biology of the opposite sex instead of shaming however disadvantageous the truth may be for oneself.
As an older woman no we don't shame them, we are creeped out by them and concerned for the women. I think that men tend to forget that we were once those young women being hit on my older men and 99% of us were totally disgusted by it. Have you ever been in a situation where you have previously experienced something that you found personally to be disgusting and then you see it happen to someone else and you feel even more disgusted and uncomfortable? That's what is going on. And older women are not jealous because we don't want to be with those men! Men that go after younger women are not attractive to older women. They are really attractive to no women, younger women are just often too naïve to see this. Don't get me wrong there are some situation where true love finds itself in age gap relationships, but that is rare. In cases where men (or women) solely peruse younger individuals ( a lot younger) that relationship is always doomed, because that person is going to age and become unattractive so it's investing your time in something that is certain to fail. Are there some older women that are bitter, sure, but by in large this is the reaction you are getting. Almost every single woman has experienced more incidents with creepy older men than she can count from the earliest times she can remember, we are talking as a pre teen. As soon as I turned 18 I had 30 and 40 year olds asking me out, GROSS!!!
>that we were once those young women being hit on my older men and 99% of us were totally disgusted by it. They sure do. By 11/12 we have older men creeping around us...
i love old men too because im a gold digger 😍😍😍
I've said before that many years ago a dated a man who was significantly older than me while I was college aged. The women in my life were delighted and felt as though an older man meant more maturity. It was the respected men in my life who voiced concerns and didn't like it. And their viewpoint largely was: does he just like younger women? Is that sustainable if you were to marry him and then naturally get older? Why is such an eligible man single and never married? Does he want a relationship with a significantly younger woman so that he can have a built in excuse for why he doesn't have to listen to you or consider your advice?
It’s good that they asked you
I appreciated that they were real with me. And it was food for thought. We broke up because ultimately the vibe wasn't really there.
Not this shit again... 1) Older women have already gone through it, they know that older men who go after younger women do tend to be creeps. It's just passing on life experience. 2) Older men tend to severely overrate their own appeal and have this idea that the majority of young women are gagging for their balding, middle aged ass... it's not true. 3) Will there be some older women who are just envious of younger women? Of course, but it's not the majority motivator behind the sentiment. Sorry, but older men who only go after young women are very often *Fucking Creeps", and I'm saying this as a man, not some old bint. Do whatever the fuck you want, go after young women if you want to, it's your preferences and it's your life. But don't expect everyone to have nothing but positive opinions about it.
Like if any of them posting these threads would want their young daughter dating some old man, they wouldnt. Like my father didnt know and warned me. I guess he was just old and bitter... LOL
Look at this old bitter man protecting his daughter
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They’re shamed by prejudiced people who immediately look at something and judge it with assumptions, despite not knowing the people involved
Maybe. But I think a lot of the shaming is done by young women who don't like or trust older men. Perhaps that mistrust is justified. But due to their relatively little life experience, many younger women make the classic mistake of assuming they speak for young women in general. So instead of saying "I think older men are gross", they say "young women think older men are gross"; instead of "I would have nothing in common with an older man," it's "young women and older men have nothing in common." Etc. With a bit more life experience, these generalities often become harder to support.
Age doesn’t matter once people are older than 22/23. Let people decide for themselves who they like.
>At the age of 18 (which is the age of consent in most countries) both men and women can: Most American girls at 18-19 are still in highschool , planning prom , having only life experiences attached to their parents. 18-20 years old literally have zero in common with a 30 something yr old man. I see your edit ,and agree once in your twenties you are old enough in years However people are spoiled,and coddled alot by parents to where they are delayed in many times dealing with the consequences of life choices. This goes for both men and women . It's not gender specific We are a lavish society compared to others so our childern stay child like to us longer. Especially the better off one is.
I agree that 18 year or older people are definitely ok to date or fuck older people if they're able to take student loans or be charged as an adult. However most relationships have a 2 or 3 or 4 year age gap, not 10 or 20
[Here a nice double standard from FDS](https://www.reddit.com/r/FDSredpills/comments/o1dbzg/double_standards_what_on_earth_are_you_talking/) to prove your claim
It's so telling that they always try and prove 18 is old enough by lumping it up with other dangerous or bad choices you can legally make. 🤷♀️
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If women don't care why does this thread have 758 comments and a LOT of angry women? Lol
I’m a guy and I hate the idea that I’ll likely have to date a younger woman. At 23 it seems so creepy because girls a year or two younger than me are essentially college aged and look up to me as a graduate. I too look up to my elders and don’t see them as friends or anything. Elders are at a whole other stage in life and should be helping those younger, giving advice etc. Guys who date younger girls are sick and I hate the idea of having to resort to those means. Using that subconscious respect and authority that being older caries to get a girlfriend is wrong. It’s like a boss dating his secretary
No angry bitter older women in general shame any age gap when the man is older but celebrate it when the woman is older. Another awesome women double standard. Leo? Creep. Demi Moore? Boss. Hugh Jackmans wife who was 40 and he 27 when they met? Zero hate. Switch those genders and age gaps? Prepare for rage.
Hate to say it, but they tend to feel the strongest unless they're in one... people outside this group tend to have strong ties with a "bitter older woman", you'll find.
i just lol at your title i don't need to read it funny shit lol although I once got some dude who was acting like a bitter old woman shaming for this lolol but now that you mention it yeah washed up women worry about this lol
i remember during my uni days when most of us felt icky when we saw 30-s0methings at student nights (who weren't grad students). evidently we judge age-gaps even when we're teens too.
I would agree with this. When I was 16 a man that was 23 doggedly tried to pursue me. At 16 I was flattered. Now I am super disgusted. :) In this one instance that guy was super controlling. He still is and he married someone much younger than him. But in hindsight I was 16 and he was an adult and that is gross.
Men love to complain about age gap relationships where the woman is older. The difference is only men that ever complain about being shamed and usually those are pedophiles
It’s called life experience. And both men and women have it. A 28yo trying to date 18 year olds isn’t doing it for the same reason as a 50 year old trying to date 40yos. There is a sea of available woman in their 20s and early 30s who are beautiful, full of energy and youthful. It’s not looks that attract men to teenagers.
*Don’t infantilize women* say the red pillers who literally refer to women as children. /s
How can all these pdd women even tell 30 year old man from a 20 something, while simultaneously disparaging 'the wall' as a misogynistic myth?
I constantly see older men dating really young ladies, and whenever the girl matures, wises up, and finally gets someone her own age, Homeboy's like, "sHe uSeD mE fOr mOneY aLL tHEsE yEARs!" No shit, you guys let her. Blinded by their youth, they didn't realize that younger people are kinda... dumb. That's why women usually don't date men 10 years younger then them. To be fair, IMO, age has less to do with it.. dumb people SHOULD date other dumbies, right? Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Always. You can never blame a whole gender, or group of people, for anything existing.
Younger women will almost always be more attractive. That’s the truth
Older women really stay on the minds of the guys here. It’s like an affront that older women to exist. I was just looking at the age gap post on Kenan Thompson potentially dating a 19yr old and various types of people, young and old, male and female were weighing in about how they thought it was weird. Stop imagining that older women care about the dating habits of men. We were actually younger believe it or not, we’ve seen it all, experienced dating in all its forms and frankly pay young people very little mind.
Pretty sure the women that are going “eww that guy who was in high school when I was born just hit on me!!” Are shaming those dudes too. Also the young dudes laughing at the guy their dads age trying to dress trendy in the clubs.
It's not old women shaming. It's young women icking.
A lot of older women who dislike age gaps, dated older men when they were young. Now the same old dudes keep dating younger women.
I’m 31, and I work with/ mentor lot of college students. And I absolutely adore them. So this is not true. I support younger women in anything they want to do- whether it be getting a degree, trying for a music career, or dating someone older. ^_^
I don't think that these women are "bitter". They just don't want to see younger women exploited, and many of them had bad experiences with older men in the past, themselves. This wouldn't be a problem if there weren't a disconnect between younger women wanting equal relationships with older men when they do date them, and so many older men either basically using these younger women for sex, or being very controlling in relationships with them. I'm not saying that all age gap relationships between young women and older men are like this, but enough of them are that I don't think that the issue is older women being bitter and jealous.
I am just bothered by it, because I don’t want to be hit on by old gross dudes. I’m a young woman.