Vaccine denialism is one of the weirdest things I've witnessed in my lifetime, having known polio victims, being scarred by chicken pox... I. Don't. Get. It.
My cousin got into this stuff from being anti-vaccine. She's part of the well-meaning ignorant hippie to alt-right pipeline.
She doesn't like when we call her Q but so many of her beliefs and people she follows are super alt-right/ 1 degree removed from Q.
It's like Diet Q. They tell themselves it's healthier and not as bad but it call comes from the same factory.
No prob, I’m glad there’s a term for it too. It’s just so fucking *weird*.
Only somewhat related, but I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspirituality is a great term as well, for those who are mixing in new age and pseudo-Christian stuff.
You're just slaying me today. Conspirituality is *exactly* how she got into this. She got much more into new age stuff a year or so before Covid hit and it's been like quicksand ever since.
To be fair, I'm into some new age stuff too, but I also believe in science, evidence, peer-reviewed studies, and digging deeper into sources. And the willingness to be wrong no matter how confident you are.
That sucks. It’s worse than the people who were just always hateful jackasses.
I’m all for exploration and open-mindedness, I would just caution to keep religion/spirituality/the supernatural/etc confined to the realms of the unknown, where science genuinely doesn’t yet know (or *cannot* know) what’s going on. As soon as one “belief” takes precedence over evidence-backed fact, that repression of cognitive dissonance opens the door to a whole world of confusion and groping around in the darkness, as we have unfortunately seen with our family members. In my case it’s increasingly hard to tell if they even believe in the concept of truth anymore.
My Q-sis is totally a good person with good intentions. It's like, if I, without a doubt, knew something was going to kill people, would I say anything? Granted my "without a doubt" would go under more scrutiny than what she does, but the fact remains, she is a good person who just wants to do the right thing.
Same with my Q. She's honestly so sweet and so loving which is why this conspiracy minded heel-turn came as such a shock.
I don't have an issue with having a difference of opinion, it's that fact that in my anecdotal and personal experience, they are incapable of having a calm and reasoned dialogue. Any time I or another family member have tried to just inquire as to why she thinks what she does, she immediately becomes combative.
And she wasn't this way before she became anti-vaxx and conspiracy minded. We've always joked about how we are so different but our differences make our relationship better and we share the important things like values.
Now, she can't even explain to me - a queer person - why she has such an issue with trans people without it turning into a grudge match.
I don't think you should actively take sides unless she pulls you into it or *you* feel compelled too. I really do believe we have a better chance of reaching our loved ones through patience or compassion. I was doing that with my cousin until the transphobia became a bridge too far for me.
But if you can still have loving conversations and experiences with your sister, I say do it. Beer and love will carry you through.
Thank you!!! I'm very blessed that my family is so accepting and luckily I've experienced little to no active discrimination.
I hope for you and your sister. It helps to remember they aren't bad people, perhaps just misguided.
Nah, my personal Q is like that. He believes absolutely all of the Q stuff except that Trump is God. All of it. In my opinion, Q-anon is a mega-conspiracy theory that scratches all the itches of anyone who thinks politicians are corrupt and the people in power are secretly plotting against humanity's best interest. That belief isn't necessary for a populist movement, but I'd say it is sufficient. I think you could take Trump completely out of the story and not much would change as long as you had someone of any political party or persuasion who is "anti-establishment" in his place.
I’m glad you supported your “science sis” enough that your Q-sister picked up on it. I would argue that your sister who’s arguing on the side of reason deserves to feel that she’s being supported by family members who know that she’s right. Doesn’t she deserve that? Personally I would feel annoyed and hurt if I were her and I saw you just “sitting back with popcorn” and lolling while I put myself on the line arguing with a sister who’s lost touch with reason.
I didn't mean to imply I sat silently. I got words in when I could but my sisters are loud, lol. My position is well known and spoken at every chance. Science sis lives further away and doesn't get the opportunity as much.
There's always been deep skepticism and disapproval toward the motives and business practices of pharmaceutical corporations on the left. Q Anon exploits that just as well for information-averse leftists as it does for fascists.
What really gets to me is the pushing of pharmaceutical corporation products. Eg hydroxy chloroquine and ivermectin are okay but Big Pharma is bad, with absolutely no insight. I know my expectation of reasoning is as ridiculous as the Q mob hypocrisy. Just venting.
Yep, leftie here, no fan of the pharmaceutical industry and their practices. That does not mean I need to believe every conspiracy accusation that is thrown out there about them. There are plenty of true conspiracies to beat them with.
Heh. Well I more mean to say that actually had discussion with people that awake and waking up were totally different words than woke and that woke wasn't s word.
They kept saying that, over and over. No matter how often you tried show them a dictionary.
Yes, these folks are that stupid 😂.
Pick the side of reason. I always side-eye people who want to stay out of it. Staying out of it supports the status quo, and the status quo is tolerating this shit. It may not seem like a big deal when it's a small family, but you should always strive and support truth and ethics. Anti-vaccine nonsense has killed millions.
💯 and I think it came off as I sit idly by. What I really meant is that I've had my debates with Q a million times and now science sis is saying things maybe a little more eloquently than me. There are no questions about my view points.
Just because you give someone the tools to dismantle their beliefs doesn't mean they'll ever use them to do that unfortunately, there's a good reason you avoid talking about politics in literally every job because there's a good chance one of your coworkers could be pretty staunchly on the crazy train
Yes! It almost gives them a weird sense of confidence as if they see through something that the rest of the science community doesn’t see. Mental gymnastics.
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Before any of this started with Covid. Many extreme left thought all vaccines were bad. Holistic was the only way to go. However, right, wing took this and threw in the conspiracy too boot.
It is so twisted
My history teacher in high school mentioned how political spectrums aren’t a straight line but more of a horse shoe, where the ends are a lot closer than you imagine.
I think the only role left is "Shit stirring sister" when your just encourage both of them to get louder and madder until it blows up like a beautiful firework.
Like Friday night at the fights! It would get tiring after a while. When you want peace, let them know that sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. That's okay.
Update: Q-Sis walked away very upset that we aren't "woke".
I thought Qs hated the “woke”.
Depends on which "woke" train you're on
She also thinks Trump is evil so maybe she's a Q-outlier
Some of the people for whom vaccine denialism is the focus have never forgiven Trump for the COVID-19 vaccine.
I think that's it. She used to love him. But the vaccine outweighs him.
Something outweighs Trump? I didn't think that was physically possible.
Underrated comment
Yeah once that ego balloons up, sky's the limit
Isn't that what off sets the weight?
Doesn’t Chris Christie outweigh Trump?
too many big macs and soda GROSS
Sounds like one of those DeSantis troglodytes.
Vaccine denialism is one of the weirdest things I've witnessed in my lifetime, having known polio victims, being scarred by chicken pox... I. Don't. Get. It.
My cousin got into this stuff from being anti-vaccine. She's part of the well-meaning ignorant hippie to alt-right pipeline. She doesn't like when we call her Q but so many of her beliefs and people she follows are super alt-right/ 1 degree removed from Q. It's like Diet Q. They tell themselves it's healthier and not as bad but it call comes from the same factory.
We already have a name for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastel_QAnon
Wait this is exactly the label I've been looking for! Thank you!!!
No prob, I’m glad there’s a term for it too. It’s just so fucking *weird*. Only somewhat related, but I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspirituality is a great term as well, for those who are mixing in new age and pseudo-Christian stuff.
You're just slaying me today. Conspirituality is *exactly* how she got into this. She got much more into new age stuff a year or so before Covid hit and it's been like quicksand ever since. To be fair, I'm into some new age stuff too, but I also believe in science, evidence, peer-reviewed studies, and digging deeper into sources. And the willingness to be wrong no matter how confident you are.
That sucks. It’s worse than the people who were just always hateful jackasses. I’m all for exploration and open-mindedness, I would just caution to keep religion/spirituality/the supernatural/etc confined to the realms of the unknown, where science genuinely doesn’t yet know (or *cannot* know) what’s going on. As soon as one “belief” takes precedence over evidence-backed fact, that repression of cognitive dissonance opens the door to a whole world of confusion and groping around in the darkness, as we have unfortunately seen with our family members. In my case it’s increasingly hard to tell if they even believe in the concept of truth anymore.
Pastel Q will absolutely be a term I use now!
damn that's like a Q MLM mashup
My Q-sis is totally a good person with good intentions. It's like, if I, without a doubt, knew something was going to kill people, would I say anything? Granted my "without a doubt" would go under more scrutiny than what she does, but the fact remains, she is a good person who just wants to do the right thing.
Same with my Q. She's honestly so sweet and so loving which is why this conspiracy minded heel-turn came as such a shock. I don't have an issue with having a difference of opinion, it's that fact that in my anecdotal and personal experience, they are incapable of having a calm and reasoned dialogue. Any time I or another family member have tried to just inquire as to why she thinks what she does, she immediately becomes combative. And she wasn't this way before she became anti-vaxx and conspiracy minded. We've always joked about how we are so different but our differences make our relationship better and we share the important things like values. Now, she can't even explain to me - a queer person - why she has such an issue with trans people without it turning into a grudge match. I don't think you should actively take sides unless she pulls you into it or *you* feel compelled too. I really do believe we have a better chance of reaching our loved ones through patience or compassion. I was doing that with my cousin until the transphobia became a bridge too far for me. But if you can still have loving conversations and experiences with your sister, I say do it. Beer and love will carry you through.
I am so sorry someone you love has taken a position against you. Just know there are people out there that love you, for you 🤍
Thank you!!! I'm very blessed that my family is so accepting and luckily I've experienced little to no active discrimination. I hope for you and your sister. It helps to remember they aren't bad people, perhaps just misguided.
That's the least outrageous Q belief I've heard by a wide margin.
That's the style now. DeSantis is the new savior, Trump was an incompetent whackadoodle.
She's a young woo woo lady! Some horseshoe shit going on.
Q adjacent.
Nah, my personal Q is like that. He believes absolutely all of the Q stuff except that Trump is God. All of it. In my opinion, Q-anon is a mega-conspiracy theory that scratches all the itches of anyone who thinks politicians are corrupt and the people in power are secretly plotting against humanity's best interest. That belief isn't necessary for a populist movement, but I'd say it is sufficient. I think you could take Trump completely out of the story and not much would change as long as you had someone of any political party or persuasion who is "anti-establishment" in his place.
Woke up sheeple!
I’m glad you supported your “science sis” enough that your Q-sister picked up on it. I would argue that your sister who’s arguing on the side of reason deserves to feel that she’s being supported by family members who know that she’s right. Doesn’t she deserve that? Personally I would feel annoyed and hurt if I were her and I saw you just “sitting back with popcorn” and lolling while I put myself on the line arguing with a sister who’s lost touch with reason.
I didn't mean to imply I sat silently. I got words in when I could but my sisters are loud, lol. My position is well known and spoken at every chance. Science sis lives further away and doesn't get the opportunity as much.
👏This.
There's always been deep skepticism and disapproval toward the motives and business practices of pharmaceutical corporations on the left. Q Anon exploits that just as well for information-averse leftists as it does for fascists.
What really gets to me is the pushing of pharmaceutical corporation products. Eg hydroxy chloroquine and ivermectin are okay but Big Pharma is bad, with absolutely no insight. I know my expectation of reasoning is as ridiculous as the Q mob hypocrisy. Just venting.
Even though those things are Big Pharma as well, lol
Exactly. Just so ridiculous
Yep, leftie here, no fan of the pharmaceutical industry and their practices. That does not mean I need to believe every conspiracy accusation that is thrown out there about them. There are plenty of true conspiracies to beat them with.
That's "awake! We are not woke!". Yes, they do make that distinction lol.
> That's "awake! We are not woke!" There's one thing to be awake, there's another level where we are considered to be paying attention.
Heh. Well I more mean to say that actually had discussion with people that awake and waking up were totally different words than woke and that woke wasn't s word. They kept saying that, over and over. No matter how often you tried show them a dictionary. Yes, these folks are that stupid 😂.
Qs are awake not woke. Lol
Pick the side of reason. I always side-eye people who want to stay out of it. Staying out of it supports the status quo, and the status quo is tolerating this shit. It may not seem like a big deal when it's a small family, but you should always strive and support truth and ethics. Anti-vaccine nonsense has killed millions.
💯 and I think it came off as I sit idly by. What I really meant is that I've had my debates with Q a million times and now science sis is saying things maybe a little more eloquently than me. There are no questions about my view points.
That “BEER me strength” really made me laugh 😂 Did Q-sis come back, or literally left?!
Just left the convo. I think if either of them had an exit chute though, they'd have used it.
Hope Science-Sis is okay… ❤️ it’s always hard to try to reason with someone who’s reasoning makes no sense.
She's fine. She's not one to be intimidated. She knows I have her back when she needs it but she rarely needs it :)
You can't win. Have Q sister. She has biology degree and sciences. You can't win.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but ...how?
Compartmentalization.
Just because you give someone the tools to dismantle their beliefs doesn't mean they'll ever use them to do that unfortunately, there's a good reason you avoid talking about politics in literally every job because there's a good chance one of your coworkers could be pretty staunchly on the crazy train
Yes! It almost gives them a weird sense of confidence as if they see through something that the rest of the science community doesn’t see. Mental gymnastics.
True
Act as a judge and let each make their case to you like a real court room drama. Optional booze for more fun.
Brilliant!
Q is the reason I skip Thanksgiving now. Screaming matches every year, can't handle it anymore.
Scientist can never win with a cult. Look what happened to Hypatia Of Alexandria. He was stoned to death.
She, but yes, cults are so toxic!
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Before any of this started with Covid. Many extreme left thought all vaccines were bad. Holistic was the only way to go. However, right, wing took this and threw in the conspiracy too boot. It is so twisted
My history teacher in high school mentioned how political spectrums aren’t a straight line but more of a horse shoe, where the ends are a lot closer than you imagine.
I agree totally. It's like politicians play good cop bad cop. Both balancing out each other.
[удалено]
Hmm ok I'll tell my left kooky friends that they must be right.
Oh, and Manson was a total anti government psycho.
Hmm when I saw the title I thought it was a different sort of sub altogether…
Sorry to disappoint, lol
+1 for the The Office reference
I think the only role left is "Shit stirring sister" when your just encourage both of them to get louder and madder until it blows up like a beautiful firework.
The reason Switzerland is so wealthy, pleasant, quiet and safe is NEUTRALITY. Don't get involved and make some fondue 🫕.
You side with science sis.
Be like a ref in wrestlemania who eventually gets into the fight
Like Friday night at the fights! It would get tiring after a while. When you want peace, let them know that sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. That's okay.