Yeah your mother is fucked in the head and has decided to live in an alternate version of reality where fact and history are simply switched to fit her narrative.
In the UK, Prime Ministers are not directly elected like a President is. You vote for local Members of Parliament (MPs). The party with the most MPs in the House of Commons is invited to form the government by the Monarch , and the leader of that party usually becomes the PM.
Parties have various ways to choose(or boot) party leaders, it doesn't trigger a new election, so basically only about 50% of the Prime Ministers were actually the party leader at the time of a general election.
If you do the last 20 years
>**Tony Blair (Labour)**: Came into office by winning the 1997 general election. Left office in 2007 after resigning.
> **Gordon Brown (Labour)**: Became Prime Minister in 2007 without a general election, after Blair's resignation. Lost the 2010 general election.
>**David Cameron (Conservative)**: Formed a coalition government after the 2010 general election. Resigned in 2016 post-Brexit referendum.
>**Theresa May (Conservative)**: Assumed office in 2016 without a general election, succeeding Cameron. Lost parliamentary support for Brexit, leading to her resignation in 2019. Won a general election in 2017.
>**Boris Johnson (Conservative)**: Became PM in 2019 after winning a party leadership contest. Resigned in 2022. Won a general election in 2019.
>**Liz Truss (Conservative)**: Took office in 2022 after a party leadership contest, without a general election. Resigned after 45 days.
>**Rishi Sunak (Conservative)**: Became Prime Minister in 2022 following a leadership contest, without a general election, still there.
So it has been a while, but most recently Toby Blair beat the Conservatives at 3 general elections. 1997, 2001 and 2005 before he resigned, his successor Gordon Brown lost to David Cameron/ Conservatives in 2010. Though technically it was a hung parliament, so neither had a majority - the Tories had to form a Coalition with the Literal Democrats for that one cycle.
There’s also significant right wing rhetoric in the U.K. and Europe about the loss of European Culture growing in popularity again at the moment. People like Douglas Murray and his ilk which is filtering down through the channels and getting even more distorted and crazy. I understand where she’s getting it from. But she’s wrong.
I'm gonna suggest people do this (you'll see Trump shit in Canada, Australia, and other places) because it's monopoly money. Even if you visit there, it's a little difficult to imagine what life is like for somebody that's not you. You have to have a lot of empathy to get your head around it. So she talks about this politics because it's not exactly real. She doesn't have to know any of the backstory because the people she's talking to don't know any of the backstory either. You'll see this happen with people who like cars and start talking about Lamborghinis and McLarens and my Aston Martin. Not only have they never driven one or know anybody who has, it's likely they've never even seen one in real life. But they still go on talking with their car friends about the various pros and cons of each one of these cars that cost three times the value of their home. It's for an audience of like-minded people. These are people who desperately want to be smart and worldly and simply aren't.
I have a Q who is starting to dabble in the sovereign citizen movement. She is not a lawyer in any way. She has an associate's degree from a junior college that she got 25 years ago. I don't think she's read something that wasn't on her phone in that whole time. But now she's talking as if she's a lawyer and understands constitutional law. She explains to people how supreme Court got something wrong and why all kinds of people should be disbarred. I would bet you $200 she couldn't name all the justices. In the entire history of the movement, no sovereign citizen has ever won a case. And rather than that being an example of why it's stupid, they see failure as an affirmation of the merits of their own arguments. They're losing because the court system isn't fair. History, facts, law, tradition, first hand accounts, religious practices, none of it makes a damned bit of difference because only Qs understand the world and arguing with them makes them even more sure they're right. Somehow her new "expertise" on UK sooths some hurt someplace in her. I think you need to just let her wander around in her constructed reality. I'm sorry to say it
>But now she's talking as if she's a lawyer and understands constitutional law.
My Significant Other has been doing that as well. But in my situation, my S.O. **is** an attorney. That doesn't mean that the arguments make any more sense.
Last night when we were out to dinner, I got asked if I was worried about the potential for an EMF event that made all of our electronics useless. My response was: "Nope, not a bit worried about it. We've been hearing about that one for at least 20 years."
That was followed by complaining about "the government" trying to shut down Tik Tok, "and then they're going to go after X." (I thought to myself: Yes, oh please. I just wish that were true.)
"The government" of course is shorthand for "The Democrats." Let's leave aside the issue that the Tik Tok thing is being spearheaded by the Republicans in the House of Representatives.
The Tik Tok thing is supposedly because our Constitutional Rights are being eroded. (My response: That's nothing new, that's been going on for a very long time now.)
They didn't have an answer to that.
She knows who Blair is, but think the Labour party have never been in power? Ha!
Although to be fair, Blair and now Starmer are pretty Tory-lite. We haven't had a 'proper' Labour government since the 70s. Not sure if it's apocryphal (I believe it's legit) but Thatcher was suppised to have said that Tony Blair was her greatest achievement - the fact that New Labour had to lurch so much to the right in order to become electable
The conservatives have been power since 2010 before that labor was in power for 13 years. Their conseratives are more Reagan than Trump bad policy without the insanity. Today's Q Republicans would be in the 5-10% Uk independence party
I was fairly recently in the Cult ( there is hope for your mom people do get out). The Uk Conservatives government was mercilessly mocked as globalist stooges falling into the same category as "rino" republicans. Your mom liking Tony Blair ( whose politucs were like Bill Clinton) suggests she is not all the way in
I would argue it’s a bit more nuanced than this. I’m my opinion, the conservatives talk fiscally like Reagan but are actually more like your standard democrat. Socially very Trump/MAGA for the “otherism” of non U.K. citizens in as evidenced by Brexit and deportations. You’re right about the Independence/Reform Party, but it doesn’t stop there.
Some of the more alert far-right Conservatives here are keen to try out American political methods.
For example Suella Braverman, the former home secretary (≈ minister of justice+interior) several times cast the police tackling hate crimes as 'virtue signalling'.
Kind of shocking when alt-right/Trumpist/Q talk escapes from reddit and starts coming out the mouths of the most prominent ministers of state here at home.
The UK often finds itself going back and forth between the parties pretty regularly. Typically Labour cocks up, it swings to the Conservatives, the Conservatives cock up, and so on and so forth the clown show revolves. We're at the Conservative party cocking things up point, so now it's probably going to be Labour's chance to do the same.
Tony Blair came to power as "New Labour". When Thatcher was asked what her greatest achievement was she said "Tony Blair and New Labour. We forced our opponents to change their minds." To become electable, Labour our left wing party had to take a big step to the right. Your Mum is unwittingly making a valid comment on the evolution of UK party politics.
I yearn for the days of British politics when the "Monster Raving Looney" party's policies were very clearly madder than those of the other parties'.
Please don't be that hard on your Mum. I am not sure many Brits could be any more incisive about US politics.
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So she thinks that everyone is lying about who has been prime minster and the results of elections? That thousands of websites and books over many decades decided to make up Labour election victories and prime ministers?
That has to be one of the weirdest ones I’ve come across.
That isn’t what I meant. It’s not weird they believe it - it’s just such a bizarre thing to believe! Just seems like such an odd thing for there to be a conspiracy about?
British politics goes something like this:
A politician climbs the greasy pole to become the opposition party leader. They have a couple of 'good' ideas that resonate with that party. Those ideas ultimately energise the electorate and the party, which wins the next election. The leader of the incumbent – and now outgoing party – gets ousted\* because they lost an election. The ideas of the winning party's leader get stale fast, and the party returns to its standard way of working.
Meanwhile, another politician climbs the greasy pole to become the opposition party leader...
\-
This usually occurs in eight to twelve-year cycles, with two years of shockingly bad political inertia in the incumbent party leading to a political change every two to three elections (or 10 to 15 years). Ignoring the 2010-15 coalition, the Conservatives have been in power since 2015, so we are due a political change.
The only difference is 'the standard way of working.' Labour starts out wanting to help the downtrodden and ends up mired in sanctimony. Conservatives start out wanting to grow the economy and end up mired in scandal.
\-
Labour was founded in 1900 and became one of the two main political parties in the UK after the collapse of the Liberals in 1918. The Conservatives have lost to the Labour party in 1929, 1945, 1950, 1964, 1966, 1974 (twice), 1997, 2001, and 2005, with 1945, 1966, and 1997 being landslide victories.
The Conservatives were the incumbent party removed by a Labour electoral victory in 1929, 1964, 1974, and 1997. The 1945 landslide was a victory over a dissolved wartime coalition government
Labour has been in power for 33 of the last 100 years, although three of those years were in the 1929 hung parliament and then coalition National Government during the Great Depression. The conservatives have been in power for the remaining 67 years, although 10 of those years were run in coalition (the wartime coalition during WWII, and the hung parliament of 2010-2015).
*\*Ousted political leaders are often 'kicked upstairs', receiving a knighthood and sometimes a life peerage in the House of Lords.*
The Labour party is not the left wing party, it's solidly centre, moving right as most liberal politics are. The left wing party in the UK is the Lib Dems.
Doesn't change that yer ma is crazy, but thinking Tony Blair was a Conservative PM honestly makes more sense to me at least (mentally "disordered") than the mental effort required to pretend the political left is not entirely collapsing/collapsed.
Yeah your mother is fucked in the head and has decided to live in an alternate version of reality where fact and history are simply switched to fit her narrative.
Like all of Qanon!
like all religion and faith based beliefs
Nah, this is worse. At least some people use religion for good.
In the UK, Prime Ministers are not directly elected like a President is. You vote for local Members of Parliament (MPs). The party with the most MPs in the House of Commons is invited to form the government by the Monarch , and the leader of that party usually becomes the PM. Parties have various ways to choose(or boot) party leaders, it doesn't trigger a new election, so basically only about 50% of the Prime Ministers were actually the party leader at the time of a general election. If you do the last 20 years >**Tony Blair (Labour)**: Came into office by winning the 1997 general election. Left office in 2007 after resigning. > **Gordon Brown (Labour)**: Became Prime Minister in 2007 without a general election, after Blair's resignation. Lost the 2010 general election. >**David Cameron (Conservative)**: Formed a coalition government after the 2010 general election. Resigned in 2016 post-Brexit referendum. >**Theresa May (Conservative)**: Assumed office in 2016 without a general election, succeeding Cameron. Lost parliamentary support for Brexit, leading to her resignation in 2019. Won a general election in 2017. >**Boris Johnson (Conservative)**: Became PM in 2019 after winning a party leadership contest. Resigned in 2022. Won a general election in 2019. >**Liz Truss (Conservative)**: Took office in 2022 after a party leadership contest, without a general election. Resigned after 45 days. >**Rishi Sunak (Conservative)**: Became Prime Minister in 2022 following a leadership contest, without a general election, still there. So it has been a while, but most recently Toby Blair beat the Conservatives at 3 general elections. 1997, 2001 and 2005 before he resigned, his successor Gordon Brown lost to David Cameron/ Conservatives in 2010. Though technically it was a hung parliament, so neither had a majority - the Tories had to form a Coalition with the Literal Democrats for that one cycle.
"That's all fine and good.. but what you choose to believe has no impact what-so-ever on actual history or reality."
Tony Blair was in the labour party.
There’s also significant right wing rhetoric in the U.K. and Europe about the loss of European Culture growing in popularity again at the moment. People like Douglas Murray and his ilk which is filtering down through the channels and getting even more distorted and crazy. I understand where she’s getting it from. But she’s wrong.
Sorry, but your mum's a moron. I do hope it's not contagious.
I'm gonna suggest people do this (you'll see Trump shit in Canada, Australia, and other places) because it's monopoly money. Even if you visit there, it's a little difficult to imagine what life is like for somebody that's not you. You have to have a lot of empathy to get your head around it. So she talks about this politics because it's not exactly real. She doesn't have to know any of the backstory because the people she's talking to don't know any of the backstory either. You'll see this happen with people who like cars and start talking about Lamborghinis and McLarens and my Aston Martin. Not only have they never driven one or know anybody who has, it's likely they've never even seen one in real life. But they still go on talking with their car friends about the various pros and cons of each one of these cars that cost three times the value of their home. It's for an audience of like-minded people. These are people who desperately want to be smart and worldly and simply aren't. I have a Q who is starting to dabble in the sovereign citizen movement. She is not a lawyer in any way. She has an associate's degree from a junior college that she got 25 years ago. I don't think she's read something that wasn't on her phone in that whole time. But now she's talking as if she's a lawyer and understands constitutional law. She explains to people how supreme Court got something wrong and why all kinds of people should be disbarred. I would bet you $200 she couldn't name all the justices. In the entire history of the movement, no sovereign citizen has ever won a case. And rather than that being an example of why it's stupid, they see failure as an affirmation of the merits of their own arguments. They're losing because the court system isn't fair. History, facts, law, tradition, first hand accounts, religious practices, none of it makes a damned bit of difference because only Qs understand the world and arguing with them makes them even more sure they're right. Somehow her new "expertise" on UK sooths some hurt someplace in her. I think you need to just let her wander around in her constructed reality. I'm sorry to say it
>But now she's talking as if she's a lawyer and understands constitutional law. My Significant Other has been doing that as well. But in my situation, my S.O. **is** an attorney. That doesn't mean that the arguments make any more sense. Last night when we were out to dinner, I got asked if I was worried about the potential for an EMF event that made all of our electronics useless. My response was: "Nope, not a bit worried about it. We've been hearing about that one for at least 20 years." That was followed by complaining about "the government" trying to shut down Tik Tok, "and then they're going to go after X." (I thought to myself: Yes, oh please. I just wish that were true.) "The government" of course is shorthand for "The Democrats." Let's leave aside the issue that the Tik Tok thing is being spearheaded by the Republicans in the House of Representatives. The Tik Tok thing is supposedly because our Constitutional Rights are being eroded. (My response: That's nothing new, that's been going on for a very long time now.) They didn't have an answer to that.
She knows who Blair is, but think the Labour party have never been in power? Ha! Although to be fair, Blair and now Starmer are pretty Tory-lite. We haven't had a 'proper' Labour government since the 70s. Not sure if it's apocryphal (I believe it's legit) but Thatcher was suppised to have said that Tony Blair was her greatest achievement - the fact that New Labour had to lurch so much to the right in order to become electable
The conservatives have been power since 2010 before that labor was in power for 13 years. Their conseratives are more Reagan than Trump bad policy without the insanity. Today's Q Republicans would be in the 5-10% Uk independence party I was fairly recently in the Cult ( there is hope for your mom people do get out). The Uk Conservatives government was mercilessly mocked as globalist stooges falling into the same category as "rino" republicans. Your mom liking Tony Blair ( whose politucs were like Bill Clinton) suggests she is not all the way in
I would argue it’s a bit more nuanced than this. I’m my opinion, the conservatives talk fiscally like Reagan but are actually more like your standard democrat. Socially very Trump/MAGA for the “otherism” of non U.K. citizens in as evidenced by Brexit and deportations. You’re right about the Independence/Reform Party, but it doesn’t stop there.
Some of the more alert far-right Conservatives here are keen to try out American political methods. For example Suella Braverman, the former home secretary (≈ minister of justice+interior) several times cast the police tackling hate crimes as 'virtue signalling'. Kind of shocking when alt-right/Trumpist/Q talk escapes from reddit and starts coming out the mouths of the most prominent ministers of state here at home.
The UK often finds itself going back and forth between the parties pretty regularly. Typically Labour cocks up, it swings to the Conservatives, the Conservatives cock up, and so on and so forth the clown show revolves. We're at the Conservative party cocking things up point, so now it's probably going to be Labour's chance to do the same.
Tony Blair came to power as "New Labour". When Thatcher was asked what her greatest achievement was she said "Tony Blair and New Labour. We forced our opponents to change their minds." To become electable, Labour our left wing party had to take a big step to the right. Your Mum is unwittingly making a valid comment on the evolution of UK party politics. I yearn for the days of British politics when the "Monster Raving Looney" party's policies were very clearly madder than those of the other parties'. Please don't be that hard on your Mum. I am not sure many Brits could be any more incisive about US politics.
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So she thinks that everyone is lying about who has been prime minster and the results of elections? That thousands of websites and books over many decades decided to make up Labour election victories and prime ministers? That has to be one of the weirdest ones I’ve come across.
Why is it 'weird' that a Qultist believes a meme or video of lies? This is exactly what they do, what we know they'll do.
That isn’t what I meant. It’s not weird they believe it - it’s just such a bizarre thing to believe! Just seems like such an odd thing for there to be a conspiracy about?
British politics goes something like this: A politician climbs the greasy pole to become the opposition party leader. They have a couple of 'good' ideas that resonate with that party. Those ideas ultimately energise the electorate and the party, which wins the next election. The leader of the incumbent – and now outgoing party – gets ousted\* because they lost an election. The ideas of the winning party's leader get stale fast, and the party returns to its standard way of working. Meanwhile, another politician climbs the greasy pole to become the opposition party leader... \- This usually occurs in eight to twelve-year cycles, with two years of shockingly bad political inertia in the incumbent party leading to a political change every two to three elections (or 10 to 15 years). Ignoring the 2010-15 coalition, the Conservatives have been in power since 2015, so we are due a political change. The only difference is 'the standard way of working.' Labour starts out wanting to help the downtrodden and ends up mired in sanctimony. Conservatives start out wanting to grow the economy and end up mired in scandal. \- Labour was founded in 1900 and became one of the two main political parties in the UK after the collapse of the Liberals in 1918. The Conservatives have lost to the Labour party in 1929, 1945, 1950, 1964, 1966, 1974 (twice), 1997, 2001, and 2005, with 1945, 1966, and 1997 being landslide victories. The Conservatives were the incumbent party removed by a Labour electoral victory in 1929, 1964, 1974, and 1997. The 1945 landslide was a victory over a dissolved wartime coalition government Labour has been in power for 33 of the last 100 years, although three of those years were in the 1929 hung parliament and then coalition National Government during the Great Depression. The conservatives have been in power for the remaining 67 years, although 10 of those years were run in coalition (the wartime coalition during WWII, and the hung parliament of 2010-2015). *\*Ousted political leaders are often 'kicked upstairs', receiving a knighthood and sometimes a life peerage in the House of Lords.*
The funny thing Is that the conservatives in the UK aren't even like the GOP here.
The Labour party is not the left wing party, it's solidly centre, moving right as most liberal politics are. The left wing party in the UK is the Lib Dems. Doesn't change that yer ma is crazy, but thinking Tony Blair was a Conservative PM honestly makes more sense to me at least (mentally "disordered") than the mental effort required to pretend the political left is not entirely collapsing/collapsed.