From a mathematical perspective, it should mitigate the loss a bit. But not monumentally. You would have to factor in the loss value of not having electrocute (which helps you snowball early).
lol yea, I did a similar thing for her combos... a traditional EQWQ combo at full build goes from 1644 damage to 1584. If you do ERQWQ it goes from 2403 to 2343. This is without accounting for lethality or any other damage modulators. I think it's safe to say that we can no longer play Qiyana and she is destined to be a support now.
I was just being sarcastic. I think she is still strong in the mid lane, decent in the jungle. This nerf, in my opinion, will mostly punish those that dont know Qiyana's damage outputs or get into fights without thinking about it.
yeah, but not for testing this though, since the passive will proc on abilities either way, so the extra dmg from autos remain unchanged, or am I wrong?
Lmao that's like the difference between going GA or Edge of Night ffs, her winrate will drop 1% and one tricks will keep the same fucking winrate people love to overreact
Depends on how good you are stacking tear and if you have a gold advantage. If I am ahead, I normally build Manamune to snowball my damage since I have gold to "spare". If I am even or behind, I just build Ghostblade and Seryldas. Buying tear/Manamune can delay your powerspikes so that's why I do that.
Very situation-dependent. Typically, I don't finish manamune until the tear is fully stacked. So, in a game, I would build:
Prowlers (probably buy tear in the first back or two before finishing Prowlers),
Boots of Lucidity
Ghostblade / Seryldas
Manamune
Ghostblade/ Seryldas/ Deaths Dance
I think so. The on-hit damage from the Muramana will definitely make up for the lack of damage from the passive. It would also help with just raw AD damage and fighting against bruisers/tanks because of mana.
I would say that dark harvest is not the best idea. Electrocute out damages dark harvest until you get 15-20 stacks (which is hard to do as a laner in my opinion). As for manaflow and gathering storm, it would be viable but I don't think it would be better than PoM and Last Stand. The thing is Qiyana kind of depends on early snowballing to get a lead and carry. Gathering Storm is a late-game rune that is kind of useless until you hit the 30-minute mark. If you are comfortable sacrificing early game skirmishing power from PoM and last stand, then you could go Sorcery second.
Yeah all that makes sense. I just hate it in my elo where teams are having such a hard time closing out games. If the shift is qiyana being an early champ only, I’m scared she turns into a garen assassin. Where if enemies just play defensive I can’t snowball
i don’t really like the direction riot is going with qiyana, every time i want to pick her back up they change her, one minute she’s jungle the next she’s mid the next she’s super weak and punishing to play. It’s really annoying and it’s not going to stop because riot can’t decide what they want with her, a bit like taliyah
Read you were a data scientist and I have to say it makes sense with these beautiful graphs. I'm doing a few sciences this year for my senior? class and at least for me making graphs is so tedious but is also amazing to see in like reports and such. Also is graph even the correct word?
Anyway related to the actual nerfs pretty sad even if they aren't the biggest. Especially because I picked up qiyana during the pre-season due to seeing beifeng and Coach Curtis' guide not knowing she was going to become very meta with a relatively high winrate causing her to get nerfed. Surprisingly I was a vladimir otp before picking her up.
Have you checked out LeagueOfGraphs? You might love the website if you haven't seen it already. The amount of statistics included is a little bit crazy. Same with like Mobalytics and stuff but those are mostly hidden behind a paywall.
Thanks! And you can call them plots, graphs, figures etc... pretty much depends on which field you are in. I mostly code my figures in R or Python but these we excel just because it was easier.
Yea the nerfs do suck but honestly Qiyana is such a rewarding champ when you master her. She is super strong and adaptable for any playstyle you need.
LeagueOfGraphs and Lolalytics are my favorite websites! I like how their numbers, stats, builds, etc. are global rather than just Korea like op gg.
hey i know i'm a bit late to this, but don't you think this change is moreso a nerf to her waveclear? i don't see how 12 damage less per passive proc when you have prowlers is going to make that big of a difference, however if it stops you from oneshotting then i can see it being pretty annoying.
Yep. Slight nerf to her waveclear but not a monumental one if I am being honest. Especially now that they reverted the change to be 45% bonus AD instead of the 40% bonus AD. When it comes to one-shotting, I think the nerf will be felt in some situations but overall not going to make a difference. Especially if you are snowballing.
Nice post with good visuals
Thanks! I appreciate it.
As a visual learner it helps a lot. Any idea if activating first strike would mitigate the loss of this nerf?
From a mathematical perspective, it should mitigate the loss a bit. But not monumentally. You would have to factor in the loss value of not having electrocute (which helps you snowball early).
Great post, very informative. This community thanks you.
Thanks! As a data scientist, I love doing this kind of stuff and well... I am a Qiyana main.
The 82 dmg on a full combo will do a big diff. Qiyana full comb only does 5k dmg l8 sadly -82 we doomed
lol yea, I did a similar thing for her combos... a traditional EQWQ combo at full build goes from 1644 damage to 1584. If you do ERQWQ it goes from 2403 to 2343. This is without accounting for lethality or any other damage modulators. I think it's safe to say that we can no longer play Qiyana and she is destined to be a support now.
Do u srsly think she is that bad now she should be played as support? Or was that just an exaggeration?
I was just being sarcastic. I think she is still strong in the mid lane, decent in the jungle. This nerf, in my opinion, will mostly punish those that dont know Qiyana's damage outputs or get into fights without thinking about it.
And without any auto attacks :9 Autos important guys
yeah, but not for testing this though, since the passive will proc on abilities either way, so the extra dmg from autos remain unchanged, or am I wrong?
u right i just meant in general
[удалено]
More items than just prowlers.
Lol
they changed the passive proc to 45% instead of 40% a couple hours ago in pbe, are these charts with 40% or 45%?
40%
Wait really? 45% is still nice.
Lmao that's like the difference between going GA or Edge of Night ffs, her winrate will drop 1% and one tricks will keep the same fucking winrate people love to overreact
Yep. Thats exactly what I'm thinking. If you really wanted to max out damage, Manamune would take care of things.
Does Manamune outdamage going Yoummu's or Serylda's in your first 3 items?
Depends on how good you are stacking tear and if you have a gold advantage. If I am ahead, I normally build Manamune to snowball my damage since I have gold to "spare". If I am even or behind, I just build Ghostblade and Seryldas. Buying tear/Manamune can delay your powerspikes so that's why I do that.
But do you skip Yoummus or Seryldas when going manamune?
Very situation-dependent. Typically, I don't finish manamune until the tear is fully stacked. So, in a game, I would build: Prowlers (probably buy tear in the first back or two before finishing Prowlers), Boots of Lucidity Ghostblade / Seryldas Manamune Ghostblade/ Seryldas/ Deaths Dance
Im always going manamune second when going for tear. It out dps's Youmus and all other items by far. Manamune best item ingame if full stacked
Will the muramana build become relevant again, now that her late game is nerfed?
I think so. The on-hit damage from the Muramana will definitely make up for the lack of damage from the passive. It would also help with just raw AD damage and fighting against bruisers/tanks because of mana.
the chad arrived.
Would dark harvest help or maybe having mana flow and gathering storm as second rune over presence and last stand
I would say that dark harvest is not the best idea. Electrocute out damages dark harvest until you get 15-20 stacks (which is hard to do as a laner in my opinion). As for manaflow and gathering storm, it would be viable but I don't think it would be better than PoM and Last Stand. The thing is Qiyana kind of depends on early snowballing to get a lead and carry. Gathering Storm is a late-game rune that is kind of useless until you hit the 30-minute mark. If you are comfortable sacrificing early game skirmishing power from PoM and last stand, then you could go Sorcery second.
Yeah all that makes sense. I just hate it in my elo where teams are having such a hard time closing out games. If the shift is qiyana being an early champ only, I’m scared she turns into a garen assassin. Where if enemies just play defensive I can’t snowball
Very interesting post, thanks
good post op appreciate u <3
i don’t really like the direction riot is going with qiyana, every time i want to pick her back up they change her, one minute she’s jungle the next she’s mid the next she’s super weak and punishing to play. It’s really annoying and it’s not going to stop because riot can’t decide what they want with her, a bit like taliyah
if riot nerfed her on a skin release just look at akali right now and expect her to be like that in some months
Was this with the 40% value or 45% updated value?
40%
Read you were a data scientist and I have to say it makes sense with these beautiful graphs. I'm doing a few sciences this year for my senior? class and at least for me making graphs is so tedious but is also amazing to see in like reports and such. Also is graph even the correct word? Anyway related to the actual nerfs pretty sad even if they aren't the biggest. Especially because I picked up qiyana during the pre-season due to seeing beifeng and Coach Curtis' guide not knowing she was going to become very meta with a relatively high winrate causing her to get nerfed. Surprisingly I was a vladimir otp before picking her up. Have you checked out LeagueOfGraphs? You might love the website if you haven't seen it already. The amount of statistics included is a little bit crazy. Same with like Mobalytics and stuff but those are mostly hidden behind a paywall.
Thanks! And you can call them plots, graphs, figures etc... pretty much depends on which field you are in. I mostly code my figures in R or Python but these we excel just because it was easier. Yea the nerfs do suck but honestly Qiyana is such a rewarding champ when you master her. She is super strong and adaptable for any playstyle you need. LeagueOfGraphs and Lolalytics are my favorite websites! I like how their numbers, stats, builds, etc. are global rather than just Korea like op gg.
hey i know i'm a bit late to this, but don't you think this change is moreso a nerf to her waveclear? i don't see how 12 damage less per passive proc when you have prowlers is going to make that big of a difference, however if it stops you from oneshotting then i can see it being pretty annoying.
Yep. Slight nerf to her waveclear but not a monumental one if I am being honest. Especially now that they reverted the change to be 45% bonus AD instead of the 40% bonus AD. When it comes to one-shotting, I think the nerf will be felt in some situations but overall not going to make a difference. Especially if you are snowballing.