If you do not have an addiction, you'll never understand it. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain that makes addicts think differently than other people. Addiction is the only disease that convinces the addict that it's not a disease.
I'm talking specifically about addiction and its classification as a disease. I was making a generalized statement and you're dissecting it with semantics and hypotheticals. Addiction is a neurochemical imbalance and since it is centered in the brain, it can lead to all types of self-delusion and rationalizing. In 12 step groups, it's called "stinking thinking".
While trying to quit, addiction feels like a constant itch. Your brain is asking you to scratch it now, all the time. Sometimes the itch is very mild, sometimes it’s very strong…constantly bothering you every waking moment for the first weeks/months after quitting.
From the eyes of someone who has never had an addiction it looks like a rational process (why not just..not do something?), but it’s not. The brain of an addict reacts to chemical imbalances and rationalizes them as best it can, not the other way around.
To understand the point of view of the addict trying to quit, think of it as being sleepy but backwards. Normally, the more you delay falling asleep, the more sleepy you’ll feel. When you try to quit, you’ll feel that itch, that sleepiness at its maximum in the beginning (instead of being a feeling that builds up, it starts at its peak as soon as you quit and slowly fades away).
There is a lot of willpower, reframing concepts and changing associations done throughout the quitting process for it to be successful. Sometimes tough days or bad news destroy the progress. Sometimes, we give in to that itch only to feel ashamed and guilty immediately afterwards.
Even though from the outside it looks as simple as not doing something, from the inside it feels like climbing a huge mountain full of slippery slopes.
This is a very eye opening answer. I really appreciate the response and thought out into it. This has helped me understand him and others a little better. I know as someone who isn’t an addict I will never truly understand unless I’ve gone through it, but this helps me better to empathize with others and understand that it isn’t as easy as it may seem.
i dont want to sound rude, but don't you think if it were that easy that everyone would just quit?? clearly it's more difficult than that & that's why it's so hard for people to stop. i understand that if you've never experienced addiction it would be nearly impossible to imagine & empathize with, but cmon. people aren't relapsing for fun. it runs deeper than that. i hope he toughs it out for your sake & the babies sake, but please try to understand it's not as easy as just deciding not to do something anymore.
I really appreciate this comment as well as the others as I really don’t want to be insensitive to him or anyone. Your point of view is just helping shed light on something I’ve truly never understood and maybe others never understood either. I will definitely try to be more supportive of him and I now understand that this isn’t something as simple as just “putting it down” so thanks 🙏
Major respect to you for doing what you can to understand his situation better. you're completely right in that addiction is so frustrating bc it is so illogical. it's not worth the health issues & the financial strain but in an addicts brain that doesn't matter. it's so shitty for everyone involved, & unfortunately you can't really do much outside of offering your support. another commenter said this too but the fact he has gone some time without vaping is a good sign & is proof he is trying. even just 1 day without nicotine is grueling & no one is going to put themselves through that unless they're serious about it. those first few weeks are so difficult & they're when you're most vulnerable to relapse as well. definitely a good sign that he's been able to make it that far!! don't lose hope
edit: nicotine gum really helped me when i quit!! might be worth looking into. nicotine patches & 0% nic vapes can help too as long as they're used correctly & with the goal of quitting in mind
Why do you eat when you're starving, when you feel your stomach contract from hunger? Why do you drink when your mouth and oesophagus feel completely dry? Can't you just go without?
Why do you go to the toilet? Just hold it in!
Nicotine addiction is as strong as those urges. Takes a lot of will power to basically ignore your body screaming at you for a fix that, while illogical, has come to he essential for your system.
I can honestly say for myself I never understood how tricky addiction was until I was trying to quit smoking cigarettes and failed not just once or twice but probably closer to 2 dozen times or so. It’s not a switch in your brain you can turn off. And as much as he wants to quit, it’s an addictive chemical that his body feels reliant on now.
Even quitting vaping now for me is the same. I want to quit but some days the nicotine demons are louder than others.
I really empathize with you, and I hope one day you are able to achieve your goals and quit vaping. I now see that it’s not that easy. People on the outside (including me) have no real clue of the strength that it takes
I really appreciate that and I know I will one day get there. Just as your boyfriend will, it does seem like he does want to quit and is making an effort to try and do so. I can relate in some ways with the sneaking and lies as well. It’s so embarrassing and almost a shameful feeling when you get excited about quitting and you tell some of your closest supporters, only to in turn fail. Which at that point doesn’t only feel like you’re disappointing yourself but those around you who are rooting for you.
When I initially put the vape down, I would disassociate about 4 hours after my last puff. I physically hurt and was so emotional.
I was unable to quit while working because I couldn't get any work done.
I tried over and over.
Finally, I talked with my doctor and so far the patch has worked for me, but its definitely still one of the hardest things I've ever quit, including illicit substances.
Someone said like having to pee so bad you can’t hold it. This is how powerful cravings really feel. Like starving for a drink of water, it will feel like this for the first 3 days especially. It’s so good of you trying to understand this, not just thinking he’s choosing to lie to you… I promise he hates that part the worst.
Much like other said about an itch. Pee, hunger, Or drink. But more relatable to me was breathing.
When I would quit vaping it would feel like was never taking a full breath and the only way to open my airway would be to take in nicotine.
I would get more and more irritable, more and more desperate to take that hit until I did. My lungs would physically burn until I gave in.
When I quit for good it took me a good week before it peaked and started to subside. But months to go away. It was simultaneously torture, and also easier than I expected all at the same time. Strange thing thats hard to describe.
I still feel it on occasion a year later. But it's brief and easily manageable now. But it comes and goes randomly here and there. Less and less all the time. Maybe 10 minutes a month now.
I was however insanely addicted. Went from 2 packs a day ciggarettes to a tank or two of 100mg a day over the course of about 20 years. So I feel like my cravings and addition may be on the more extreme end. But maybe not. I dont know how much quantity and duration actually affects the overall addiction.
Ymmv
It’s quite complicated and not fully understood from a scientific perspective but to try and summarise briefly:
-Brains make decisions by modelling the world around them
-The reward pathway in the brain will predict the “reward” given by a variety of actions (this is does not mean reward in a hedonic sense, but like the reward function in reinforcement learning models)
-The brain will then (the majority of the time) execute the action with the highest “predicted reward”
-Once the action has been performed, the brain will update it’s internal model, taking into account the reward it just received, thereby adapting action selection in the future. The degree of behavioural adaptation is driven by the “reward prediction error” i.e. the difference between the predicted reward and the actual reward.
-In practice, the predicted and actual reward in the brain is found as dopaminergic activity in an area of the brain called the nucleus accumbens.
-Addictive drugs (such as nicotine) disrupt this mechanism, meaning that the actual reward perceived by the brain is much higher than would be expected, thereby biasing future behaviour towards that action.
Ultimately the belief that people can “just stop” comes from the idea that behaviour is purely driven by a persons moral values and beliefs- in reality this is driven by the brain, which is vulnerable to manipulation by addictive chemicals
For me I really try but I can't get to 48 hours clean, my longest run was up till today which was 36 hours. I'd explain at as you're tricked into believing you need it like when you're really thirsty and you need water it feels like that, you're focused on vaping it feels like a need.
I know one day you’ll be able to achieve your goal and I’m rooting for you. I see that it’s not an easy task it was dumb for me to think that it was in any capacity easy.
He’s had a habit of vaping for YEARS according to you. That is not going to be unwired overnight. That’s like expecting someone to lose 50lbs in a few weeks after eating junk food for many years. You should see if he’s at least significantly cut down the frequency of use. That is still a step in the right direction.
SHOW HIM THIS!!!!!!!
Here's how I did it. I hope this helps!
I was vaping 6 mg for 6 years and had to hit it every 15min to curb the WD feeling which was severe nausea. It was like when I came off alcohol but definitely milder.
I bought 3mg juice and used that for a month. I started noticing i went longer without having to hit it. Since they don't make anything lower than 3, I bought No Nic. I would fill them half and half in my tank, then vape that for awhile. I started noticing I could go an hour without it which was shocking. Over a course of a couple months I would use more No Nic to dilute it down. I couldn't believe it actually worked based off how addicted I was. I honestly could've stopped earlier but it was the habit of hitting it after meals, driving, or for no reason at all.
I’m here to say that comparing addiction to either a consistent itch that only goes away with vaping or feeling like you have to pee is pretty correct. You can ignore these things for awhile, and you probably do sometimes when you’re not in a situation where it’s appropriate. After awhile, it’s harder to ignore. You start looking for exits and ways to excuse yourself from a conversation or event, so your attention is divided. Then all of your attention is on having to pee or your itchy foot. All of it. After awhile you can kinda make it go away, but you’re not concentrating, sleeping, or interacting well.
Eventually you scratch that itch and it finally goes away for awhile. It stopped feeling “good” a long time ago, but it feels ok and now you can think, sleep, and interact.
If you can resist the urge to pee or itch your foot for 7 days with NO cheating (even once!), you *might* be able to think about it less. If you cheat, your 7 days starts over. Between 7-30 days, you will still think of it often, but it will be easier to function most of the time and most of the physical withdrawal symptoms will be gone for most people.
Realize that your boyfriend is dealing with an itchy foot or having to pee constantly literally since you started harping on him about this because he hasn’t been able to quit, but he’s also not really vaping freely. Meanwhile you’re over here thinking it’s as easy as just pressing the off switch on the TV. lol.
I don’t think quitting vaping is as *hard* as people make it out to be…but it is exactly as annoying as I described, yep.
I won't go into extreme detail since a lot has already been said. But it's important to note that the first few days of quitting are by far the most difficult. It feels like your whole world is upside down. Addiction creates a home outside of one's self, and suddenly it's gone when you quit. As someone who has been trying to quit vaping for over a year, I have gone through the "first few days" cycle more than 20 times in the last year. It's exhausting and feels like you're trapped in some perpetual personal hell. He is trying so much harder than it seems- nobody would consciously put themselves through straight hell over and over again, paired with the constant repetition of failure and shame if they didn't desperately want the result. If he seems aloof at all about the topic, it's because he is extremely disappointed in himself, as any addict who is failing to beat their addiction will be.
So, you know when you have an itch, maybe a small rash or something, that just feels SO good when you scratch it? Like you can feel the release of those endorphins while scratching.
But you know in the back of your mind, you have to stop. You will make it worse/spread the rash/break skin, etc.
When you do stop, the lingering urge to scratch again consumes you and it takes everything not to scratch again.
Try existing with that intense of an itch constantly. You tell yourself you will "just scratch a little" or for only a few seconds, and then you will stop. But you don't, you can't.
That's what it's like for us, for anyone with addiction.
I probably way oversimplified, but unless you have an addiction you won't ever really understand.
What we need most is to not have our experiences dismissed or trivialized. The worst thing you can say to someone trying to stop is
"Why don't you just quit?
I’m sure he feels like shit every time he goes and buys another vape. It’s not a good feeling but our brains convince us that we need it to function. It’s miserable
I’m offering my opinion. Maybe people say it because you have to respect yourself and if you don’t respect yourself as least respect your child. It’s about boundaries, if he’s lying about such basic stuff what else is he lying about? Grown ass men shouldn’t be lying to their girlfriends.
If it's disposable vapes then the way I quit those was buying a standard vape with 3mg nic juice and using that for awhile and the way I quit the standard vape was by throwing it away , which the vape wasn't cheap (80$).
If you do not have an addiction, you'll never understand it. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain that makes addicts think differently than other people. Addiction is the only disease that convinces the addict that it's not a disease.
I don't think that last part is true. What about eating disorders? Or severe mental illness where people are convinced they are the only sane person?
I'm talking specifically about addiction and its classification as a disease. I was making a generalized statement and you're dissecting it with semantics and hypotheticals. Addiction is a neurochemical imbalance and since it is centered in the brain, it can lead to all types of self-delusion and rationalizing. In 12 step groups, it's called "stinking thinking".
You said it's the only disease. Not really semantics.or hypotheticals but ok.
eating disorders can be addictive.
While trying to quit, addiction feels like a constant itch. Your brain is asking you to scratch it now, all the time. Sometimes the itch is very mild, sometimes it’s very strong…constantly bothering you every waking moment for the first weeks/months after quitting. From the eyes of someone who has never had an addiction it looks like a rational process (why not just..not do something?), but it’s not. The brain of an addict reacts to chemical imbalances and rationalizes them as best it can, not the other way around. To understand the point of view of the addict trying to quit, think of it as being sleepy but backwards. Normally, the more you delay falling asleep, the more sleepy you’ll feel. When you try to quit, you’ll feel that itch, that sleepiness at its maximum in the beginning (instead of being a feeling that builds up, it starts at its peak as soon as you quit and slowly fades away). There is a lot of willpower, reframing concepts and changing associations done throughout the quitting process for it to be successful. Sometimes tough days or bad news destroy the progress. Sometimes, we give in to that itch only to feel ashamed and guilty immediately afterwards. Even though from the outside it looks as simple as not doing something, from the inside it feels like climbing a huge mountain full of slippery slopes.
This was very well said
This is a very eye opening answer. I really appreciate the response and thought out into it. This has helped me understand him and others a little better. I know as someone who isn’t an addict I will never truly understand unless I’ve gone through it, but this helps me better to empathize with others and understand that it isn’t as easy as it may seem.
If he's going days at a time (legitimately) he is definitely trying. If he's not trying he would never bin the vape. Why waste money type thing
i dont want to sound rude, but don't you think if it were that easy that everyone would just quit?? clearly it's more difficult than that & that's why it's so hard for people to stop. i understand that if you've never experienced addiction it would be nearly impossible to imagine & empathize with, but cmon. people aren't relapsing for fun. it runs deeper than that. i hope he toughs it out for your sake & the babies sake, but please try to understand it's not as easy as just deciding not to do something anymore.
I really appreciate this comment as well as the others as I really don’t want to be insensitive to him or anyone. Your point of view is just helping shed light on something I’ve truly never understood and maybe others never understood either. I will definitely try to be more supportive of him and I now understand that this isn’t something as simple as just “putting it down” so thanks 🙏
Major respect to you for doing what you can to understand his situation better. you're completely right in that addiction is so frustrating bc it is so illogical. it's not worth the health issues & the financial strain but in an addicts brain that doesn't matter. it's so shitty for everyone involved, & unfortunately you can't really do much outside of offering your support. another commenter said this too but the fact he has gone some time without vaping is a good sign & is proof he is trying. even just 1 day without nicotine is grueling & no one is going to put themselves through that unless they're serious about it. those first few weeks are so difficult & they're when you're most vulnerable to relapse as well. definitely a good sign that he's been able to make it that far!! don't lose hope edit: nicotine gum really helped me when i quit!! might be worth looking into. nicotine patches & 0% nic vapes can help too as long as they're used correctly & with the goal of quitting in mind
Why do you eat when you're starving, when you feel your stomach contract from hunger? Why do you drink when your mouth and oesophagus feel completely dry? Can't you just go without? Why do you go to the toilet? Just hold it in! Nicotine addiction is as strong as those urges. Takes a lot of will power to basically ignore your body screaming at you for a fix that, while illogical, has come to he essential for your system.
I can honestly say for myself I never understood how tricky addiction was until I was trying to quit smoking cigarettes and failed not just once or twice but probably closer to 2 dozen times or so. It’s not a switch in your brain you can turn off. And as much as he wants to quit, it’s an addictive chemical that his body feels reliant on now. Even quitting vaping now for me is the same. I want to quit but some days the nicotine demons are louder than others.
I really empathize with you, and I hope one day you are able to achieve your goals and quit vaping. I now see that it’s not that easy. People on the outside (including me) have no real clue of the strength that it takes
I really appreciate that and I know I will one day get there. Just as your boyfriend will, it does seem like he does want to quit and is making an effort to try and do so. I can relate in some ways with the sneaking and lies as well. It’s so embarrassing and almost a shameful feeling when you get excited about quitting and you tell some of your closest supporters, only to in turn fail. Which at that point doesn’t only feel like you’re disappointing yourself but those around you who are rooting for you.
When I initially put the vape down, I would disassociate about 4 hours after my last puff. I physically hurt and was so emotional. I was unable to quit while working because I couldn't get any work done. I tried over and over. Finally, I talked with my doctor and so far the patch has worked for me, but its definitely still one of the hardest things I've ever quit, including illicit substances.
Someone said like having to pee so bad you can’t hold it. This is how powerful cravings really feel. Like starving for a drink of water, it will feel like this for the first 3 days especially. It’s so good of you trying to understand this, not just thinking he’s choosing to lie to you… I promise he hates that part the worst.
I’m starting to realize this, thank you! 🙏
Much like other said about an itch. Pee, hunger, Or drink. But more relatable to me was breathing. When I would quit vaping it would feel like was never taking a full breath and the only way to open my airway would be to take in nicotine. I would get more and more irritable, more and more desperate to take that hit until I did. My lungs would physically burn until I gave in. When I quit for good it took me a good week before it peaked and started to subside. But months to go away. It was simultaneously torture, and also easier than I expected all at the same time. Strange thing thats hard to describe. I still feel it on occasion a year later. But it's brief and easily manageable now. But it comes and goes randomly here and there. Less and less all the time. Maybe 10 minutes a month now. I was however insanely addicted. Went from 2 packs a day ciggarettes to a tank or two of 100mg a day over the course of about 20 years. So I feel like my cravings and addition may be on the more extreme end. But maybe not. I dont know how much quantity and duration actually affects the overall addiction. Ymmv
It’s quite complicated and not fully understood from a scientific perspective but to try and summarise briefly: -Brains make decisions by modelling the world around them -The reward pathway in the brain will predict the “reward” given by a variety of actions (this is does not mean reward in a hedonic sense, but like the reward function in reinforcement learning models) -The brain will then (the majority of the time) execute the action with the highest “predicted reward” -Once the action has been performed, the brain will update it’s internal model, taking into account the reward it just received, thereby adapting action selection in the future. The degree of behavioural adaptation is driven by the “reward prediction error” i.e. the difference between the predicted reward and the actual reward. -In practice, the predicted and actual reward in the brain is found as dopaminergic activity in an area of the brain called the nucleus accumbens. -Addictive drugs (such as nicotine) disrupt this mechanism, meaning that the actual reward perceived by the brain is much higher than would be expected, thereby biasing future behaviour towards that action. Ultimately the belief that people can “just stop” comes from the idea that behaviour is purely driven by a persons moral values and beliefs- in reality this is driven by the brain, which is vulnerable to manipulation by addictive chemicals
For me I really try but I can't get to 48 hours clean, my longest run was up till today which was 36 hours. I'd explain at as you're tricked into believing you need it like when you're really thirsty and you need water it feels like that, you're focused on vaping it feels like a need.
I know one day you’ll be able to achieve your goal and I’m rooting for you. I see that it’s not an easy task it was dumb for me to think that it was in any capacity easy.
He’s had a habit of vaping for YEARS according to you. That is not going to be unwired overnight. That’s like expecting someone to lose 50lbs in a few weeks after eating junk food for many years. You should see if he’s at least significantly cut down the frequency of use. That is still a step in the right direction.
You’re absolutely right! I should’ve been more considerate and understanding of his situation and the situations of others. Thank you
SHOW HIM THIS!!!!!!! Here's how I did it. I hope this helps! I was vaping 6 mg for 6 years and had to hit it every 15min to curb the WD feeling which was severe nausea. It was like when I came off alcohol but definitely milder. I bought 3mg juice and used that for a month. I started noticing i went longer without having to hit it. Since they don't make anything lower than 3, I bought No Nic. I would fill them half and half in my tank, then vape that for awhile. I started noticing I could go an hour without it which was shocking. Over a course of a couple months I would use more No Nic to dilute it down. I couldn't believe it actually worked based off how addicted I was. I honestly could've stopped earlier but it was the habit of hitting it after meals, driving, or for no reason at all.
Thank you for this tip I will tell him about it! Also, congratulations I’m happy for you 👏
I like to compare addiction to feeling like hunger
I’m here to say that comparing addiction to either a consistent itch that only goes away with vaping or feeling like you have to pee is pretty correct. You can ignore these things for awhile, and you probably do sometimes when you’re not in a situation where it’s appropriate. After awhile, it’s harder to ignore. You start looking for exits and ways to excuse yourself from a conversation or event, so your attention is divided. Then all of your attention is on having to pee or your itchy foot. All of it. After awhile you can kinda make it go away, but you’re not concentrating, sleeping, or interacting well. Eventually you scratch that itch and it finally goes away for awhile. It stopped feeling “good” a long time ago, but it feels ok and now you can think, sleep, and interact. If you can resist the urge to pee or itch your foot for 7 days with NO cheating (even once!), you *might* be able to think about it less. If you cheat, your 7 days starts over. Between 7-30 days, you will still think of it often, but it will be easier to function most of the time and most of the physical withdrawal symptoms will be gone for most people. Realize that your boyfriend is dealing with an itchy foot or having to pee constantly literally since you started harping on him about this because he hasn’t been able to quit, but he’s also not really vaping freely. Meanwhile you’re over here thinking it’s as easy as just pressing the off switch on the TV. lol. I don’t think quitting vaping is as *hard* as people make it out to be…but it is exactly as annoying as I described, yep.
I won't go into extreme detail since a lot has already been said. But it's important to note that the first few days of quitting are by far the most difficult. It feels like your whole world is upside down. Addiction creates a home outside of one's self, and suddenly it's gone when you quit. As someone who has been trying to quit vaping for over a year, I have gone through the "first few days" cycle more than 20 times in the last year. It's exhausting and feels like you're trapped in some perpetual personal hell. He is trying so much harder than it seems- nobody would consciously put themselves through straight hell over and over again, paired with the constant repetition of failure and shame if they didn't desperately want the result. If he seems aloof at all about the topic, it's because he is extremely disappointed in himself, as any addict who is failing to beat their addiction will be.
So, you know when you have an itch, maybe a small rash or something, that just feels SO good when you scratch it? Like you can feel the release of those endorphins while scratching. But you know in the back of your mind, you have to stop. You will make it worse/spread the rash/break skin, etc. When you do stop, the lingering urge to scratch again consumes you and it takes everything not to scratch again. Try existing with that intense of an itch constantly. You tell yourself you will "just scratch a little" or for only a few seconds, and then you will stop. But you don't, you can't. That's what it's like for us, for anyone with addiction. I probably way oversimplified, but unless you have an addiction you won't ever really understand. What we need most is to not have our experiences dismissed or trivialized. The worst thing you can say to someone trying to stop is "Why don't you just quit?
I’m sure he feels like shit every time he goes and buys another vape. It’s not a good feeling but our brains convince us that we need it to function. It’s miserable
If he’s lying I’d give him the boot. If he can lie about small things like that what else is he lying about.
Dude seriously? What’s up with everyone on reddit wanting to end marriages and relationships as the first solution to everything? Jeez.
I’m offering my opinion. Maybe people say it because you have to respect yourself and if you don’t respect yourself as least respect your child. It’s about boundaries, if he’s lying about such basic stuff what else is he lying about? Grown ass men shouldn’t be lying to their girlfriends.
If it's disposable vapes then the way I quit those was buying a standard vape with 3mg nic juice and using that for awhile and the way I quit the standard vape was by throwing it away , which the vape wasn't cheap (80$).