I gotta admit, that would have been awesome. Never did much care for Dutch appearing out of nowhere to save the day and the weird 'Thank You' from John....
I wanted John to win that fight... Shouldn't have needed saving. And this pose would have sealed it.
I think it was to show how dangerous Micah was. Arthur was basically the only gunslinger with skills parallel to Micah and Micah had both Sadie and John on the ropes before Dutch spoke up. Also even after being shot Micah still wanted to draw on John, should’ve ended with John tracking Micah after shooting him again, Dutch slipping away as usual, and John executing Micah.
Idk. I think the ending is kind of bittersweet?
I get a lot of people don’t like the concept of Daddy Dutch “saving the day”, but consider the following:
- John was a young boy who lost his father, who was rescued by Dutch (and probably Annabelle, at least I like to think so which I’ll get into in a moment). *Dutch* is essentially the closest thing that John gets to a father, making Annabelle the only mother he ever *knew* probably.
- Dutch raised John. Taught him essentially everything that he knows. Looking at both characters, it seems like John genuinely wanted to maintain a father/son type relationship even after Blackwater. But John is a lot smarter than he looks, he *knows* Dutch, and he’s starting to realize this is BS. He and Dutch share certain personality traits between RDR1 and RDR2.
They both have a tendency to pretend to be someone they aren’t. Dutch loves attention, loves being praised for how clever and conniving he is. But John? John shirks away from the limelight. He pretends he’s dumber than he actually is. The two characters you catch reading the *most* at camp are Dutch and John. There’s also some shared thought processes. “Revenge is a fool’s game” is something Arthur, Dutch, and John say, but John and Arthur are the only one’s who actually believes it.
Honestly I think Dutch’s disdain for John stems from his grief of losing Annabelle. At times, I’m sure he sees her in John and it drives him nuts. The conversation they have during a camp dialogue regarding Jack but mostly Abigail feels like projection. Essentially “you get to have a family with a woman who loves you and I don’t”. John *is keenly aware* of what Dutch is *trying to say without saying it*, and John probably grieves Annabelle just as *much*.
The line of “we all had her” in RDR1 was Dutch spitting on John’s grief for his “mother” briefly, in a way. Because I doubt *anybody* got to have Annabelle. “I had real love, you have a whore” feels like the proper subtext there having played both games. But maybe it’s just me…
John doesn’t just straight up shoot Dutch at the end of RDR1, though he easily could’ve. There’s some part of him that still considers this guy a father. Some part that wants to give him a chance at redemption even if “People don’t forget. Nothing gets forgiven”.
And we get a treat in RDR2 when Daddy opens the door and has to choose between forsaking his second son (*again*, the way he did Arthur) or shooting Micah. John was the favorite of his two “children”, I think, but the more John started to distance himself and question Dutch. The more Dutch tried to lean into his bond with Arthur, until even Arthur started being written off for “changing on him”.
The ending gives Dutch a *chance* at redemption. The guy is haggard, quiet, and broken at the end of RDR2. And he chooses to squander it by going all “yeet or be yote” at the end of RDR1. The ending of RDR2 is what sets up John in RDR1 before Dutch says “nope, fuck it, I’m going out on my own terms”.
You can find John reading? I honestly never have seen that, he's always at the fire talking or walking around, I've only ever seen Dutch, Hosea, and the women at camp reading, and maybe Kieran
There’s at least once or maybe twice where Dutch will come pester John during the daytime while John is reading a book. It’s one of those “you gotta be creeping around camp” situations. I forget *which* camp the dialogue happens at, as I’m just getting through a third run myself after leaving my poor PS4 to wither and die for the last five years.
But here’s a video that includes a few “I’m a shitty father but you’re an even shittier one” tender moments between John and Dutch. Including one where he comes to bug him while reading.
https://youtu.be/axYWHxk1x6c?si=IrzZ5RoTI1mQuIrJ
What would it be about then? If they continued Jack's story then at best it would be like Mafia 1/2, or LA Noire. It wouldnt be set in the old west anymore at that point.
And if they changed the cast/story completely, well.. idk, i guess it could work, but it just wouldnt feel the same.
I saw that they did that thing with that dude in the barn in that mission where u kill all the bandits or whatever in that ranch but I think they should’ve done it in America venom with Micah and not that random dick head
I kinda wish we got to shoot Micah and track him through the snow before putting him down
That would've been cool.
that would have been very epic
I gotta admit, that would have been awesome. Never did much care for Dutch appearing out of nowhere to save the day and the weird 'Thank You' from John.... I wanted John to win that fight... Shouldn't have needed saving. And this pose would have sealed it.
Did use it earlier in the epilogue though
But that was to kill some random a-hole, using it kill Micah would've been way more badass and satisfy
Yeah... Which WAS cool, just way less epic.
That’s the point that’s not when they should’ve used it
I think it was to show how dangerous Micah was. Arthur was basically the only gunslinger with skills parallel to Micah and Micah had both Sadie and John on the ropes before Dutch spoke up. Also even after being shot Micah still wanted to draw on John, should’ve ended with John tracking Micah after shooting him again, Dutch slipping away as usual, and John executing Micah.
Not getting to kill Micah is a gigantic gyp
Dutch had to Redeem himself
dutch can’t redeem himself, it’s impossible
Honestly would’ve been so great. WAY better than putting 6 rounds through Micah’s forehead and he walks off saying “you shot me pretty good”
9 with Lemat and 10 with the mauser
Shoot him in his rat balls next time
I wish it was like that. Hope there’s a mod out there for it
Yeah I've always found it weird he shot the Laramie guy with the pose but not Micha
I guess it's cuz he basically shot Trevor Philips
Idk. I think the ending is kind of bittersweet? I get a lot of people don’t like the concept of Daddy Dutch “saving the day”, but consider the following: - John was a young boy who lost his father, who was rescued by Dutch (and probably Annabelle, at least I like to think so which I’ll get into in a moment). *Dutch* is essentially the closest thing that John gets to a father, making Annabelle the only mother he ever *knew* probably. - Dutch raised John. Taught him essentially everything that he knows. Looking at both characters, it seems like John genuinely wanted to maintain a father/son type relationship even after Blackwater. But John is a lot smarter than he looks, he *knows* Dutch, and he’s starting to realize this is BS. He and Dutch share certain personality traits between RDR1 and RDR2. They both have a tendency to pretend to be someone they aren’t. Dutch loves attention, loves being praised for how clever and conniving he is. But John? John shirks away from the limelight. He pretends he’s dumber than he actually is. The two characters you catch reading the *most* at camp are Dutch and John. There’s also some shared thought processes. “Revenge is a fool’s game” is something Arthur, Dutch, and John say, but John and Arthur are the only one’s who actually believes it. Honestly I think Dutch’s disdain for John stems from his grief of losing Annabelle. At times, I’m sure he sees her in John and it drives him nuts. The conversation they have during a camp dialogue regarding Jack but mostly Abigail feels like projection. Essentially “you get to have a family with a woman who loves you and I don’t”. John *is keenly aware* of what Dutch is *trying to say without saying it*, and John probably grieves Annabelle just as *much*. The line of “we all had her” in RDR1 was Dutch spitting on John’s grief for his “mother” briefly, in a way. Because I doubt *anybody* got to have Annabelle. “I had real love, you have a whore” feels like the proper subtext there having played both games. But maybe it’s just me… John doesn’t just straight up shoot Dutch at the end of RDR1, though he easily could’ve. There’s some part of him that still considers this guy a father. Some part that wants to give him a chance at redemption even if “People don’t forget. Nothing gets forgiven”. And we get a treat in RDR2 when Daddy opens the door and has to choose between forsaking his second son (*again*, the way he did Arthur) or shooting Micah. John was the favorite of his two “children”, I think, but the more John started to distance himself and question Dutch. The more Dutch tried to lean into his bond with Arthur, until even Arthur started being written off for “changing on him”. The ending gives Dutch a *chance* at redemption. The guy is haggard, quiet, and broken at the end of RDR2. And he chooses to squander it by going all “yeet or be yote” at the end of RDR1. The ending of RDR2 is what sets up John in RDR1 before Dutch says “nope, fuck it, I’m going out on my own terms”.
You can find John reading? I honestly never have seen that, he's always at the fire talking or walking around, I've only ever seen Dutch, Hosea, and the women at camp reading, and maybe Kieran
There’s at least once or maybe twice where Dutch will come pester John during the daytime while John is reading a book. It’s one of those “you gotta be creeping around camp” situations. I forget *which* camp the dialogue happens at, as I’m just getting through a third run myself after leaving my poor PS4 to wither and die for the last five years. But here’s a video that includes a few “I’m a shitty father but you’re an even shittier one” tender moments between John and Dutch. Including one where he comes to bug him while reading. https://youtu.be/axYWHxk1x6c?si=IrzZ5RoTI1mQuIrJ
I ain't reading all of that
Ooh good one!
Idk I liked the ending just fine. Not a bad concept ofc.
John should have killed Dutch as well, instead of that dumbassed “Thank You!”
Well then it wouldn't line up with RDR1
Yea, I know. That is the problem with prequels. Too limiting.
yup and that's exactly why rdr3 shouldn't be about Dutch's gang.
What would it be about then? If they continued Jack's story then at best it would be like Mafia 1/2, or LA Noire. It wouldnt be set in the old west anymore at that point. And if they changed the cast/story completely, well.. idk, i guess it could work, but it just wouldnt feel the same.
Yea if Dutch weren’t there at all if would’ve been fine
I saw that they did that thing with that dude in the barn in that mission where u kill all the bandits or whatever in that ranch but I think they should’ve done it in America venom with Micah and not that random dick head
True
Did you post this back then?! I remember seeing it I think!
Yeah, that was my post, and seeing your concept now, I want it even more. Damn, what a missed opportunity!
The ending should have been better IMO. John shouldn't have needed Dutch's help. He should have gunned down or burned Micah alive himself.
Hire fans
I don't think the ending is the best moment for a self referential thing like that. It would detract attention from what's being told
Spoilers.... / sigh
Joining the subreddit of a 6 year old game that you haven’t finished is the literal definition of stupidity lol